The ball isn’t moving with rhythm. Too many ins and outs of the lineup maybe. But this was a game where more than half the possessions were watching a player try to show what he could do. It was reminiscent of summer league or losing teams in that respect. And then the other half was guys passing when they should actually shoot or In looney’s case pump faking when he should shoot.
What ever they worked on in the recent 3 day stretch off must have been defensive.
I don't feel too bad about this one. It felt like an earlier-in-the-dynasty loss: bricked threes and turnovers. It's frustrating because the team totally could've and should've had this one, but not THAT frustrating because the solution is simple: just don't suck like that next time. We know these guys are capable of it.
Plus there's another game right away, so we don't have to dwell on this one.
It’s been a long time since we have closed without Steph. Disappointing result for sure, but probably not shocking. Add that Draymond just returned after a long absence…
This road trip was already gonna suck, been calling that for a month. Now, it could get really ugly. Hoping the team can figure out how to close games better and maybe pick off a win or two.
Ja is out for one more game (@Nets). But for our 4th quarter malaise against two marginal teams, second seed was a possibility.
Having said that I think rotating cast of players resulting from injury prone vets and other injuries is making finding a rhythm hard. GP2 didn't play like himself. He was pressing. So is Klay. He is not himself yet but yet has had a ripple effect on rhythm of other players.
At the start of the season, Curry broke down the season in three parts - without Klay, integrating Klay and then making final push. Alas, we are still in the second phase if we change word Klay with combo of three OGs.
Come Playoffs, everyone healthy and tightened rotations will make finding rhythm easier. Especially true for Klay and Wiggs. Just have to get through first two rounds unscathed and not completely exhausted.
These losses really hurts as far as the seeding goes but yeah, no doubt about it. I expect more downs than up this road trip but wouldn’t be surprised if they make it right towards the end
i take comfort in knowing they’re sucking because they’re not playing to their potential rather than sucking because they’re just simply not talented enough
Just watch Otto play and you’ll see your all heart basketball. That guy is clearly embracing every minute on the court after so many injury riddled years.
Yes, that was rough. The Dubs just decided not to score in the 1st and 4th quarters. Lots of dumb fouling on both ends of the court. Wiggins and Klay aren't shooting they're sh*tt*ng. Did I mention scoring? 17 points in the 1st quarter and 16 in the 4th???? Is this the Warriors. They have 10 games to figure this out. Then it gets real. Real or over.
Hmm. Positives: Nice to see Moody and Payton back! Woot! Kuminga was awesome - sadly his fouling limited his availability but he was solid on both ends of the court. Porter stepping up and needs to step up more. Draymond not getting technicals! And I might just be a believer in Poole. '
But: yea. The starters need to show up for the whole game.
Just came to commiserate and lament. That fourth quarter was... well, you know what it was. This is a team that has some pieces, but it's also got significant holes. The on-court stupidity is blowing my mind. I thought this was supposed to be a high bb iq team....
Chicago has to be the biggest pretenders ever. Every time they go up against a real playoff team they get smacked. They're getting 4-1'd in the first round healthy or not
Lol, there’s a huge difference between us and them though considering our situation. They will and although it is concerning there’s no one I trust more to right the ship than the guys we have on this team.
I'm surprised we haven't seen much of JTA lately. He's a sparkplug and we really could use his energy out there. Guessing that he'll get some run tomorrow night in Miami.
Additionally, having 70 million invested on the wings (in Klay and Wiggins) for guys who are not really really good (Wiggins has never been, Klay is not right now but might get there) is pretty tough. I expect Wiggins to be traded away if we don't win the chip this year. He'll only have 1 year on his contract and he's still a starter-level wing in the NBA which is pretty valuable. I don't think it'll take a lot to dump his contract (or even redistribute it across multiple different players).
Wiggins got his salary up to maybe he’s a good neutral salary filler in a trade for a star at his peak. But he’s back to he’s an expiring that a team might want to consolidate their smaller contracts into for cap room. I do think that with Klay looking better as a 3 than a 2 that Wiggins should be moved for smaller mid-level contracts next year to give the team more flexibility. Assuming they aren’t able to resign OPJ.
I don’t know if the Jazz have those types of contracts, but they could use Wiggins.
The other option would be to try to trade for Barnes.
But they could trade Wiggins to the Knicks for players like Randall and Fournier of the Knicks wanted to bail on last summer’s long term contracts they handed out. Then the Warriors would have those two salary spots to play with.
But Wiggins is only 27. He's still a valuable player. I think Warriors would get something valuable and more than just picks if they do try and get rid of him in the upcoming offseason.
They can always trade if the salaries match.They can't add salary above where there are now except by re-signing their existing players that they have bird rights for.
Why can they trade Wiggins for other players? We can't sign a FA, but we can acquire someone by trade. That's how it happened for D'Lo and Wiggins himself.
They can, but if he continues to play poorly the Warriors will have to send picks with him to get a useful player. If he returns to being the pre all star Wiggins they could get a useful player without sending picks assuming that there is no huge extension for Poole that puts them farther into the luxury tax than they are willing to be.
Even on an expiring, I think he'll require 1 FRP (and maybe a future 2nd) to dump him. It's about getting a cheaper player/players who might cumulatively provide more value and also someone you might retain long-term. For example, we might be able to get something like Wiggins + 2022 FRP + maybe seconds for Eric Gordon + Tate/KJ Martin (and adjusting salaries for matching purposes as required). If they're willing to throw in someone like Wood, that's obviously incredible as well.
The Knicks too have loads of mid-tier dump-worthy contracts as well. The point is that we're unlikely to be able to afford both Wiggins and Poole's next contract, and that choice seems rather obvious. Thus, trading Wiggins in the summer might make more sense and should be explored at the very least (plus, this is as valuable as he's going to get on this contract considering he's an expiring next year).
I don’t think we will see a trade of this nature for Wiggs. His defense is key and I can’t see us replacing that via trade. May as well go the Pat Murray route and just try resign him for 25M or thereabouts
First NBA game I've seen in a month. Did not pick the greatest game, did I?
I've got a couple of general observations:
1. Apparently, my guy JP's been on a tear. I'm old enough to remember when people were saying that DLee and GP2 were better than him. He's our 3rd best player, right?
2. Speaking of guys like GP2, Bjelica, Wiggins (all-star starter lol), I feel that their downturn has a lot to do with the fact that they're role-players who thrive in pretty optimized roles. When we had Steph, Draymond (and to a lesser extent Andre), we could have these guys perform very specific duties which they did well. Now without one of Steph/Draymond, they're needing to perform roles they're not good at (for example, increased shot creation for Wiggins and he's reverted to Minnesota Wiggins. As I said earlier in the season, I don't think he's improved that much, he's just playing in a highly optimized setting).
3. Somewhat related to #2, we're a very fragile team. A well-built deep team like the Suns or the Grizzlies can withstand injuries to any player and still be really good. When Draymond goes down, we're a 45 win team. When Steph goes down, we're a 20-25 or maybe 30 win team. In a normal regular season, most stars miss about 10 games (and Steph and Draymond have been missing more than that in the past few years which I would guess is to be expected due to increasing age). We need to find ways to build in some measure of anti-fragility (is that the right term? I don't know).
4. Very related to #3, I think Steve Kerr's always been shown up to be an overrated offensive coach (he's obviously one of the best there is defensively). I saw a stat that ever since he took over, he's something like 44-85 in non-Steph games. Even taking out the 19-20 season, it's something like 30-40 (not exact numbers as I saw the tweet so I'm quoting from memory here). This includes teams where he's had Klay Thompson, Draymond Green and Kevin Durant. Additionally, offensively he's never gotten a league average offensive rating in non-Steph minutes. That's insane considering he had KD and Klay on the team at one time. Everybody seems to adore the system, but if the system doesn't work if one of the 2-3 best offensive players of all time is missing, is the system really that great? I had hoped the Atkinson hire would improve this, but that does not seem to be the case from the eye test.
5. About Klay, he needs to stop playing like he's Kobe. Stop chucking off-balance fadeaways. His efficiency has always been slightly less that what you would expect from a player of his calibre (being a Splash Brother and all), but it's at a particularly frigid 52.7% TS this year. He needs to simplify his game substantially (Draymond being injured obviously didn't help). I think not making the #75 list really got into his head, even though he's definitely behind Draymond and maybe even behind Iguodala on that metric on his own team. Go back to being Klay Thompson and there's still a really valuable player in there.
6. Draymond looked worse defensively than I've ever seen him basically. He's coming off a serious injury so it's understandable, but it was pretty uncharacteristic.
7. Chris Chiozza is not an NBA level player. What happened to the Spoon guy? When did Dowtin leave for the Magic?
8. To end on a positive note, I thought JK looked really good this game (at least offensively). Him and Poole being our 2 best players is encouraging for the future (as encouraging as a loss to a tanking team can be I suppose).
9. Bonus: Can we give Steph a retroactive MVP now for this season?
While I don't agree with all the negativity here about all the players other than Poole and JK sucking, the analysis isn't unfair. But this was the same team that was destroying everyone in the first half of the season, and the terrible run began before Steph got injured.
Still, without a pretty deep playoff run there will be some shocking changes in the off-season.
The ball isn’t moving with rhythm. Too many ins and outs of the lineup maybe. But this was a game where more than half the possessions were watching a player try to show what he could do. It was reminiscent of summer league or losing teams in that respect. And then the other half was guys passing when they should actually shoot or In looney’s case pump faking when he should shoot.
What ever they worked on in the recent 3 day stretch off must have been defensive.
Are all these flashy things safe? I may have to give up basketball.
Are all these flashy things safe? I may have to give up basketball.
I don't feel too bad about this one. It felt like an earlier-in-the-dynasty loss: bricked threes and turnovers. It's frustrating because the team totally could've and should've had this one, but not THAT frustrating because the solution is simple: just don't suck like that next time. We know these guys are capable of it.
Plus there's another game right away, so we don't have to dwell on this one.
In short: no new injuries, no problem.
It’s been a long time since we have closed without Steph. Disappointing result for sure, but probably not shocking. Add that Draymond just returned after a long absence…
This road trip was already gonna suck, been calling that for a month. Now, it could get really ugly. Hoping the team can figure out how to close games better and maybe pick off a win or two.
There is no news on Andre. That sucks I wonder if he will even be healthy enough to play 12 mins every other playoff game.
Ja is out for one more game (@Nets). But for our 4th quarter malaise against two marginal teams, second seed was a possibility.
Having said that I think rotating cast of players resulting from injury prone vets and other injuries is making finding a rhythm hard. GP2 didn't play like himself. He was pressing. So is Klay. He is not himself yet but yet has had a ripple effect on rhythm of other players.
At the start of the season, Curry broke down the season in three parts - without Klay, integrating Klay and then making final push. Alas, we are still in the second phase if we change word Klay with combo of three OGs.
Come Playoffs, everyone healthy and tightened rotations will make finding rhythm easier. Especially true for Klay and Wiggs. Just have to get through first two rounds unscathed and not completely exhausted.
Plenty of time to right the ship. They are out of sorts now but they know what to do. These losses really don’t matter much.
These losses really hurts as far as the seeding goes but yeah, no doubt about it. I expect more downs than up this road trip but wouldn’t be surprised if they make it right towards the end
Remember the doom n gloom when we beat one of these contenders this week and poole drops 40
i take comfort in knowing they’re sucking because they’re not playing to their potential rather than sucking because they’re just simply not talented enough
That applies to the playoffs more than these final games, IMO
Just watch Otto play and you’ll see your all heart basketball. That guy is clearly embracing every minute on the court after so many injury riddled years.
Yes, that was rough. The Dubs just decided not to score in the 1st and 4th quarters. Lots of dumb fouling on both ends of the court. Wiggins and Klay aren't shooting they're sh*tt*ng. Did I mention scoring? 17 points in the 1st quarter and 16 in the 4th???? Is this the Warriors. They have 10 games to figure this out. Then it gets real. Real or over.
Hmm. Positives: Nice to see Moody and Payton back! Woot! Kuminga was awesome - sadly his fouling limited his availability but he was solid on both ends of the court. Porter stepping up and needs to step up more. Draymond not getting technicals! And I might just be a believer in Poole. '
But: yea. The starters need to show up for the whole game.
Just came to commiserate and lament. That fourth quarter was... well, you know what it was. This is a team that has some pieces, but it's also got significant holes. The on-court stupidity is blowing my mind. I thought this was supposed to be a high bb iq team....
Chicago has to be the biggest pretenders ever. Every time they go up against a real playoff team they get smacked. They're getting 4-1'd in the first round healthy or not
That’s a good case for DeRozan to get MVP. Truly, Injury bug got them too.
Chicago is down Lonzo and Williams… and were already thin. Sucks for them…
Bulls are 4-9 since the ASB, apparently.
And Warriors are 5-8. Just as bad.
At this point, I won't be calling any other teams big pretenders. The Ws need to right the ship...
Lol, there’s a huge difference between us and them though considering our situation. They will and although it is concerning there’s no one I trust more to right the ship than the guys we have on this team.
I'm surprised we haven't seen much of JTA lately. He's a sparkplug and we really could use his energy out there. Guessing that he'll get some run tomorrow night in Miami.
Eric, no cool audio illusion? or such fun distractions, those were even better than the flashy thingy!
Oh have I done those before? I don’t recall
Additionally, having 70 million invested on the wings (in Klay and Wiggins) for guys who are not really really good (Wiggins has never been, Klay is not right now but might get there) is pretty tough. I expect Wiggins to be traded away if we don't win the chip this year. He'll only have 1 year on his contract and he's still a starter-level wing in the NBA which is pretty valuable. I don't think it'll take a lot to dump his contract (or even redistribute it across multiple different players).
Wiggins got his salary up to maybe he’s a good neutral salary filler in a trade for a star at his peak. But he’s back to he’s an expiring that a team might want to consolidate their smaller contracts into for cap room. I do think that with Klay looking better as a 3 than a 2 that Wiggins should be moved for smaller mid-level contracts next year to give the team more flexibility. Assuming they aren’t able to resign OPJ.
I don’t know if the Jazz have those types of contracts, but they could use Wiggins.
The other option would be to try to trade for Barnes.
Wiggins for Love?
To Dallas for Bertans and Hardaway?
How about Wiggins and picks to the rockets for Eric Gordon and Christian Wood?
Incoming picks are a least likely outcome for a Wiggins trade.
But they could trade Wiggins to the Knicks for players like Randall and Fournier of the Knicks wanted to bail on last summer’s long term contracts they handed out. Then the Warriors would have those two salary spots to play with.
But Wiggins is only 27. He's still a valuable player. I think Warriors would get something valuable and more than just picks if they do try and get rid of him in the upcoming offseason.
They can always trade if the salaries match.They can't add salary above where there are now except by re-signing their existing players that they have bird rights for.
I dunno, wings are more valuable than centers...
Why can they trade Wiggins for other players? We can't sign a FA, but we can acquire someone by trade. That's how it happened for D'Lo and Wiggins himself.
They can, but if he continues to play poorly the Warriors will have to send picks with him to get a useful player. If he returns to being the pre all star Wiggins they could get a useful player without sending picks assuming that there is no huge extension for Poole that puts them farther into the luxury tax than they are willing to be.
Even on an expiring, I think he'll require 1 FRP (and maybe a future 2nd) to dump him. It's about getting a cheaper player/players who might cumulatively provide more value and also someone you might retain long-term. For example, we might be able to get something like Wiggins + 2022 FRP + maybe seconds for Eric Gordon + Tate/KJ Martin (and adjusting salaries for matching purposes as required). If they're willing to throw in someone like Wood, that's obviously incredible as well.
The Knicks too have loads of mid-tier dump-worthy contracts as well. The point is that we're unlikely to be able to afford both Wiggins and Poole's next contract, and that choice seems rather obvious. Thus, trading Wiggins in the summer might make more sense and should be explored at the very least (plus, this is as valuable as he's going to get on this contract considering he's an expiring next year).
I've been saying this for a while. Fans don't get it, yet.
I don’t think we will see a trade of this nature for Wiggs. His defense is key and I can’t see us replacing that via trade. May as well go the Pat Murray route and just try resign him for 25M or thereabouts
I doubt that as it likely precludes Poole, whose going to be better than Wigs if he isn’t already.
First NBA game I've seen in a month. Did not pick the greatest game, did I?
I've got a couple of general observations:
1. Apparently, my guy JP's been on a tear. I'm old enough to remember when people were saying that DLee and GP2 were better than him. He's our 3rd best player, right?
2. Speaking of guys like GP2, Bjelica, Wiggins (all-star starter lol), I feel that their downturn has a lot to do with the fact that they're role-players who thrive in pretty optimized roles. When we had Steph, Draymond (and to a lesser extent Andre), we could have these guys perform very specific duties which they did well. Now without one of Steph/Draymond, they're needing to perform roles they're not good at (for example, increased shot creation for Wiggins and he's reverted to Minnesota Wiggins. As I said earlier in the season, I don't think he's improved that much, he's just playing in a highly optimized setting).
3. Somewhat related to #2, we're a very fragile team. A well-built deep team like the Suns or the Grizzlies can withstand injuries to any player and still be really good. When Draymond goes down, we're a 45 win team. When Steph goes down, we're a 20-25 or maybe 30 win team. In a normal regular season, most stars miss about 10 games (and Steph and Draymond have been missing more than that in the past few years which I would guess is to be expected due to increasing age). We need to find ways to build in some measure of anti-fragility (is that the right term? I don't know).
4. Very related to #3, I think Steve Kerr's always been shown up to be an overrated offensive coach (he's obviously one of the best there is defensively). I saw a stat that ever since he took over, he's something like 44-85 in non-Steph games. Even taking out the 19-20 season, it's something like 30-40 (not exact numbers as I saw the tweet so I'm quoting from memory here). This includes teams where he's had Klay Thompson, Draymond Green and Kevin Durant. Additionally, offensively he's never gotten a league average offensive rating in non-Steph minutes. That's insane considering he had KD and Klay on the team at one time. Everybody seems to adore the system, but if the system doesn't work if one of the 2-3 best offensive players of all time is missing, is the system really that great? I had hoped the Atkinson hire would improve this, but that does not seem to be the case from the eye test.
5. About Klay, he needs to stop playing like he's Kobe. Stop chucking off-balance fadeaways. His efficiency has always been slightly less that what you would expect from a player of his calibre (being a Splash Brother and all), but it's at a particularly frigid 52.7% TS this year. He needs to simplify his game substantially (Draymond being injured obviously didn't help). I think not making the #75 list really got into his head, even though he's definitely behind Draymond and maybe even behind Iguodala on that metric on his own team. Go back to being Klay Thompson and there's still a really valuable player in there.
6. Draymond looked worse defensively than I've ever seen him basically. He's coming off a serious injury so it's understandable, but it was pretty uncharacteristic.
7. Chris Chiozza is not an NBA level player. What happened to the Spoon guy? When did Dowtin leave for the Magic?
8. To end on a positive note, I thought JK looked really good this game (at least offensively). Him and Poole being our 2 best players is encouraging for the future (as encouraging as a loss to a tanking team can be I suppose).
9. Bonus: Can we give Steph a retroactive MVP now for this season?
While I don't agree with all the negativity here about all the players other than Poole and JK sucking, the analysis isn't unfair. But this was the same team that was destroying everyone in the first half of the season, and the terrible run began before Steph got injured.
Still, without a pretty deep playoff run there will be some shocking changes in the off-season.
Statmuse says:
Draymond Green is 28-57 without Stephen Curry in his career.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/draymond-green-stats-without-steph-curry-record
Warriors have a 61-126 record without Stephen Curry all-time.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-stats-without-steph-curry-record
The Golden State Warriors have a 44-85 record without Stephen Curry since 2014-15.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=warriors+record+without+stephen+curry+in+lineup+since+2014-2015+season