I don't know that the Pelicans would want Moody & Wiggins given that Herb Jones & Trey Murphy are locks to start for them. Sure, more switchable 3 & D wings is nice, but they probably need someone that can initiate the offense if they get rid of Ingram.
Hence the 'both say no' option in the poll. There might a more realistic version of this trade that involves a third team, but I don't see why either team would do this trade as proposed.
Instead of trying to "upgrade the roster", I would rather we figured out what brand of bball we need to play to compete and get out of the West and then retro-rosterneer what kind of players we need. I'm actually not as attached to keeping any of the rearguard except Steph. These last 2 seasons be damned!
While watching The Cup games, I got the distinct feeling that Kerr was not a fan of Ingram. Ingram couldn't really fit into Kerr's rotations and to give that many assets for Ingram is not a smart move IMO.
Of course there are many other criteria to consider, but......
Regular season games played since 2020-21 (Wiggins' first full season with the Dubs):
20-21. Wiggins: 71, Ingram: 61
21-22: Wiggins 73, Ingram 55
22-23: Wiggins 37, Ingram 45 (Wiggs also played 13 playoff games this year, Ingram 1 play-in game)
23-24: Wiggins 71, Ingram 64
If the Dubs are looking for a player that would be more available than Wiggins, Ingram is probably not that guy. Even with taking multiple leaves-of-absences the past two seasons, Wiggins has played about the same number of regular season games as Ingram during that time (108 to 109).
I'd do this trade, but with major reservations. Ingram seems like a near-perfect fit offensively, but I don't trust him at all defensively, and he doesn't exactly come across as a supreme competitor.
Not sure I agree he's a good fit offensively, he's a worse 3pt shooter than Wiggs, not a good defender at the 4 either so we can't run him with Dray front court. Rather bank on JK improving. We need a 3 & d guy or a scorer that has a decent 3pt shot at least next to Curry.
That's fair. The reason I think he's so ideal is that he's a guy with great size who can initiate offense. Over 6 assists per 36 minutes each of the last two years, on top of the scoring. But your point about the 3pt shooting is definitely a good one.
The 3p% *may* go up if we keep Klay and Steph. How many wide open bunnies will he have compared to where he's currently at? How good does his shot look?
If this is the best player the Dubs could realistically get before Curry sucks and is old I’d do it. I don’t think that’s the case though so id say no unless they just wanted Wiggs + a 1st for BI straight up.
Basketball -wise it's intriguing - Ingram would be a mini-Durant for Steph as a 2nd option. But his effort seems iffy and I'd be worried about the size of an extension you'd have to give him.
No thanks for me, but I could potentially see this being attractive to the Dubs. Hope not, though. Most of the reasons have been covered below, but the main one for me is the fit with JK.
Right now, (as you have said, and I tend to agree), it's hard to include Kuminga's skill set. The point I made in a previous post was that Kuminga needs to grow into a 3. If Ingram is blocking his way, there won't be a lot of minutes to do that. That's what I meant about fit.
Obviously, JK needs to develop skills he doesn't have right now (better shooting, decision making, passing). I think the main difference between us is that I think he can get there, and you seem to think he can't.
But, in the short run (until he gets there), I'd say a 2 who can shoot and handle the ball a bit, and can play defense, would probably be a better fit. Tall order to find someone like that, given our salary/cap situation, though.
One thing we do not know, amongst many, is Wiggins state of mind.
Hopefully the Warriors have had meaningful discussions with him about what has caused him to leave the team.
I think if they are confident that the situation is over and he has a chance to just go all out and become something close to 2 years ago, they should roll the dice and keep him.
The problem is his trade value is not even close to his possible ceiling. His trade value is him in the basement.
The big problem is they need an upgrade in talent and the biggest upgrade they can get for Wiggins is Wiggins himself playing much better.
I do not see BI being worth that trade which could end up being Wiggins, Moody and maybe 2 very good players from the drafts. He does not seem to have that IT factor that many of the better players have and he appears injury prone.
>I think if they are confident that the situation is over and he has a chance to just go all out and become something close to 2 years ago, they should roll the dice and keep him.
The problem is his trade value is not even close to his possible ceiling. His trade value is him in the basement.
The big problem is they need an upgrade in talent and the biggest upgrade they can get for Wiggins is Wiggins himself playing much better.
Is Danny Ainge overhyped? When he joined the Jazz as CEO in December 2021, the roster included four guys now playing key roles on playoff teams that have made it to the second round:
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Mike Conley
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
Two and a half seasons after he was hired, the Jazz finished at 31-51
True, but draft picks don't necessarily equal star talent. While OKC has drafted well, their star, SGA, came in the PG13 trade. Maybe the Jazz can trade some of their upcoming picks into a star player, but, right now, they don't have much of a base to work with
It’s a better spot to be compared to being a middling team without draft capital. Markkanen, Kessler, George are decent. The idea is to hit on a star in your first two “tanking” drafts, then trade the rest of your capital to bring in a complementary star… it could work out.
I think he's not exactly overhyped so much as he's kind of an extremist and that's interesting. When he stockpiles picks he stockpiles them ALL. I thought he completely fleeced the TWolves in the Gobert trade but now who's laughing?
Maybe both sides are happy. Gobert is giving Minnesota what they traded for: a chance to make a run now. Utah was giving up the present for years' worth of resources. They won't spend that last 1st until 2029 and there are four total, so they could end up getting a lot of good players.
I agree with your initial assessment that Ainge fleeced Minnesota. Unless they win a championship, he's not worth everything they gave up to get him.
Still, I'd imagine Ainge cringes a little with MItchell catapulting the Cavs into the next round and Conley and Gobert making big impacts with the Wolves while the Jazz players have already checked out of their Cancun hotels
New thread: https://dubnationhq.com/p/dnhq-rooting-guide-2-denver-vs-3/
Lacob just announced the GM for the wnba team -WNBA expansion franchise Golden State hires Ohemaa Nyanin as its general manager
yeah, I was hoping he will tell us the name - but looks like still not locked in!
I don't know that the Pelicans would want Moody & Wiggins given that Herb Jones & Trey Murphy are locks to start for them. Sure, more switchable 3 & D wings is nice, but they probably need someone that can initiate the offense if they get rid of Ingram.
Hence the 'both say no' option in the poll. There might a more realistic version of this trade that involves a third team, but I don't see why either team would do this trade as proposed.
Instead of trying to "upgrade the roster", I would rather we figured out what brand of bball we need to play to compete and get out of the West and then retro-rosterneer what kind of players we need. I'm actually not as attached to keeping any of the rearguard except Steph. These last 2 seasons be damned!
The team has been taking this approach since the ‘22 chip, no? Being a top OREB team this year despite being small and old is a testament to that.
This team’s roster needs a switch up because of the massive resources going to two players who have mostly been negatives (Wigs and Klay).
No change in play is going to make up for those massive wastes of limited resources.
Plus, Steph cannot be the only creator in the roster. The team will keep barely making the playoffs if that continues.
While watching The Cup games, I got the distinct feeling that Kerr was not a fan of Ingram. Ingram couldn't really fit into Kerr's rotations and to give that many assets for Ingram is not a smart move IMO.
He's a worse 3pt shooter than Wiggins, our spacing is already bad.
Fun fact : Moody is 6 years younger than BI, has the same career 3P% and has a better career TS%. He also gives defensive effort, unlike BI.
He's also the 10th man on a lottery team
In what way is that predictive of anything?
He’d be the best creator alongside Curry since KD tho
Of course there are many other criteria to consider, but......
Regular season games played since 2020-21 (Wiggins' first full season with the Dubs):
20-21. Wiggins: 71, Ingram: 61
21-22: Wiggins 73, Ingram 55
22-23: Wiggins 37, Ingram 45 (Wiggs also played 13 playoff games this year, Ingram 1 play-in game)
23-24: Wiggins 71, Ingram 64
If the Dubs are looking for a player that would be more available than Wiggins, Ingram is probably not that guy. Even with taking multiple leaves-of-absences the past two seasons, Wiggins has played about the same number of regular season games as Ingram during that time (108 to 109).
I'd do this trade, but with major reservations. Ingram seems like a near-perfect fit offensively, but I don't trust him at all defensively, and he doesn't exactly come across as a supreme competitor.
Not sure I agree he's a good fit offensively, he's a worse 3pt shooter than Wiggs, not a good defender at the 4 either so we can't run him with Dray front court. Rather bank on JK improving. We need a 3 & d guy or a scorer that has a decent 3pt shot at least next to Curry.
That's fair. The reason I think he's so ideal is that he's a guy with great size who can initiate offense. Over 6 assists per 36 minutes each of the last two years, on top of the scoring. But your point about the 3pt shooting is definitely a good one.
The 3p% *may* go up if we keep Klay and Steph. How many wide open bunnies will he have compared to where he's currently at? How good does his shot look?
If this is the best player the Dubs could realistically get before Curry sucks and is old I’d do it. I don’t think that’s the case though so id say no unless they just wanted Wiggs + a 1st for BI straight up.
Basketball -wise it's intriguing - Ingram would be a mini-Durant for Steph as a 2nd option. But his effort seems iffy and I'd be worried about the size of an extension you'd have to give him.
No thanks for me, but I could potentially see this being attractive to the Dubs. Hope not, though. Most of the reasons have been covered below, but the main one for me is the fit with JK.
Who fits well with Kuminga?
Right now, (as you have said, and I tend to agree), it's hard to include Kuminga's skill set. The point I made in a previous post was that Kuminga needs to grow into a 3. If Ingram is blocking his way, there won't be a lot of minutes to do that. That's what I meant about fit.
Obviously, JK needs to develop skills he doesn't have right now (better shooting, decision making, passing). I think the main difference between us is that I think he can get there, and you seem to think he can't.
But, in the short run (until he gets there), I'd say a 2 who can shoot and handle the ball a bit, and can play defense, would probably be a better fit. Tall order to find someone like that, given our salary/cap situation, though.
Basketball Twitter was dunking on the Cavs in the first half...as if teams haven't regularly been coming back from 20 points down all year.
One thing we do not know, amongst many, is Wiggins state of mind.
Hopefully the Warriors have had meaningful discussions with him about what has caused him to leave the team.
I think if they are confident that the situation is over and he has a chance to just go all out and become something close to 2 years ago, they should roll the dice and keep him.
The problem is his trade value is not even close to his possible ceiling. His trade value is him in the basement.
The big problem is they need an upgrade in talent and the biggest upgrade they can get for Wiggins is Wiggins himself playing much better.
I do not see BI being worth that trade which could end up being Wiggins, Moody and maybe 2 very good players from the drafts. He does not seem to have that IT factor that many of the better players have and he appears injury prone.
You can say that again. Ok, I will:
>I think if they are confident that the situation is over and he has a chance to just go all out and become something close to 2 years ago, they should roll the dice and keep him.
The problem is his trade value is not even close to his possible ceiling. His trade value is him in the basement.
The big problem is they need an upgrade in talent and the biggest upgrade they can get for Wiggins is Wiggins himself playing much better.
Is Danny Ainge overhyped? When he joined the Jazz as CEO in December 2021, the roster included four guys now playing key roles on playoff teams that have made it to the second round:
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Mike Conley
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
Two and a half seasons after he was hired, the Jazz finished at 31-51
That team wasn't going any where in a loaded West.
Look at their draft capital.
True, but draft picks don't necessarily equal star talent. While OKC has drafted well, their star, SGA, came in the PG13 trade. Maybe the Jazz can trade some of their upcoming picks into a star player, but, right now, they don't have much of a base to work with
It’s a better spot to be compared to being a middling team without draft capital. Markkanen, Kessler, George are decent. The idea is to hit on a star in your first two “tanking” drafts, then trade the rest of your capital to bring in a complementary star… it could work out.
I think he's not exactly overhyped so much as he's kind of an extremist and that's interesting. When he stockpiles picks he stockpiles them ALL. I thought he completely fleeced the TWolves in the Gobert trade but now who's laughing?
Maybe both sides are happy. Gobert is giving Minnesota what they traded for: a chance to make a run now. Utah was giving up the present for years' worth of resources. They won't spend that last 1st until 2029 and there are four total, so they could end up getting a lot of good players.
I agree with your initial assessment that Ainge fleeced Minnesota. Unless they win a championship, he's not worth everything they gave up to get him.
Still, I'd imagine Ainge cringes a little with MItchell catapulting the Cavs into the next round and Conley and Gobert making big impacts with the Wolves while the Jazz players have already checked out of their Cancun hotels
I wouldn't care for Mitchell since it's likely cavs will lose big to Celtics in the 2nd round, maybe if Gobert wins a chip they might regret a little.
I kinda wish coaches released a quick mission statement.
For Kerr the last two seasons, it would be something like: maximize the best known potential of the team.
Hopefully this coming seaosn it's more along the kins of: coach to develope the maximum potential of the team.
It just helps to understand rotations and the mindset of the team.
Mission statement: Win, ideally win a ring but win.
Seriously, that's all it is.
Heck naw.