Of course it hasnt rained here in ages and now that we have to drive back from Michigan, it feels like we’re driving in the middle of a Hurricane out here in Central Missouri
EDIT* Anyways awhile back I was listening to one of The Ringer podcasts. Wanna say Bill Simmons Podcast talking about Caitlin Clark and they were trying to figure out wheh was the last time a player as exciting as CC came out. They were bandying names like Rebecca Lobo and Taurasi the last big name coming out before CC. All i have to say is A). Sabrina Motherf*<kin Ionescu! And b). If you’re this clueless about womens bball then maybe you shouldn’t be talking about womens bball. Reminds me of that one time Bill Simmons and Ryen Rusillo were discussing protests and race relarions in America.
One way is to click on reply right below the comment you were replying to. Like this is a reply to sab’s comment, right? So there is a reply button right under her comment that you might want to use.
Below each comment it gives you the option to "like" or "reply." Please use reply. That way, we can follow the conversation. The comment box is for conversation-starting comments, not replies.
He isn't a force the ball down the middle PG. So he gets caught in the air too much. He is used to feeding guys off the wing angles. Where he is fed the ball and he is two reads ahead of the spacing and movement. He did make a beautiful pass on TDY's first dunk. Dribbled in. Reversed direction. Great pass to the cutting TDY. But if your game is based on being a catch and shoot 3 pt guy and feeding out of shots you refuse or give up or see a better option, dribbling slows your decision making. He could develop into a role playing 1. But on this roster with Steph and CP he needs to function from the wing. Without the ball. His court vision is really special. Kinda scary unusual.
Sports is entertainment, and I've been thinking about that with regard to my fandom. Steph for example isn't just a great player, he's also enjoyable to watch even for a naive viewer.
But that's Steph. Elsewhere, some players are effective yet not entertaining, some are entertaining without being effective.
I'm conducting a survey here for your NBA Entertaining Player All-Stars and your Effective All Stars. Thinking here not as a Warrior fan, but an NBA fan.
For example, leaving off-court issues aside, I would argue that Kyrie Irving is highly entertaining, but not that effective. His moves are amazing to watch, poetry in motion. I would say that Looney is highly effective but not very entertaining, except for diehards like us who enjoy a tipped rebound and labored layup.
Who are your nominations for Ent-But-Eff or Eff-But-Not-Ent players?
Dame is hella entertaining, but man does he kill any playoff rotation with his defensive limitations. I think he almost can get away with it, but he's in that vein of En-no-Eff
Yes but that is because you are an involved fan. To a casual, there's nothing exciting about the way he dominates and his personality does not have a lot of pizazz slathered on top.
Steph Curry played a nearly mistake free first round in the American Century golf tournament and leads the field by 4 points (Stableford scoring). Is this the year he retires from basketball and gets his tour card?
I hate to sound like a lunatic homer fan, but I am starting to love this roster. Podziemski is the real deal. I think he is playing out of position this summer. He can handle, but it screws up his base game. He is a shooting 2 or a 1970's style 3. Ala Bill Bradley, the Van Arsdales. The ball moves through him. Him dribbling a lot destroys his catch and shoot rythym. I just saw the Trayce Jackson-Davis video and read Mike Woodson's comments. I think both of these young guys will contribute a lot this year. One comment Woodson made really struck me, about TJD using 'both hands' to attack the rim and rebound. Woodson is a Bobby Knight protégé. In Indiana University speak, using both hands as Woodson described speaks to having solid fundamentals as taught and demanded and expected by Knight. IU coaches from that era do not give compliments in re: fundamentals unless they are valid. I think both these kids can play 15 or 20 minutes a night on a championship roster.
I can't figure Podz out. Some plays I think he's too small and short armed and some plays I think he's pretty sharp. Magic eight ball says: need more information, ask again later.
Surprise, surprise! Lebron announced to the world in the ESPY awards that aah he’s aah not retiring?
“The real question for me is, ‘Can I play without cheating this game?’ The day I can’t give the game everything on the floor is the day I’ll be done. Lucky for you guys, that day is not today.”
Lucky for you guys??!*#!? The ego and conceit of this man knows no bounds.🤮
Instead of mocking him for getting swept and going on 39, the conversation has been about his not-retirement and the Lakers being the most serious contender to the Nuggets. LePR is over 9000
I don't have a personal take on this yet. I've just noticed that amongst basketball opinion-givers that enter my nba feed, the Lakers are a popular choice. I think this is at least partially shaped by changing the narrative to avoid the usual derision that accompanies a playoff sweep from entering our collective popular memory.
He earned the right to more than a bit of arrogance. Not that I like it, and that comment about "lucky for you guys" stuck out to me, too. Still, he was basically a star from the day he first put on an NBA uni, and he's without question one of the best of the best ever to play. So it's understandable if his ego is massive. The fact is, we are damn lucky to have been able to watch him play for 20 years, not to mention the fun of calling him names and disparaging him for all those years.
Was about to type something similar. Yeah, we get to call him an attention seeking team hopping ring chasing crybaby on the court but that's about it. Outside of that he's been a damn good father and hasn't had one scandal his entire career. I know I'm basically praising him for being a normal decent person but that's still pretty damn commendable considering his status. For Lebron to escape his teenage to early 20s without one off court incident is impressive especially when we saw how guys like Ja and Zion handled themselves lol
I don’t understand how anyone can watch any single game even one game and think this dude is gonna be a bust. Ok i get wanting Nick Smith Jr (just me) or Cam but nothing about his pace and positioning (even SL) screams bust off the bat
95.7 The Game
@957thegame
"Actually being able to watch his game, he's not a bust, and it's Summer League, four or five games whatever it's been between Vegas and Sacramento, he's not a bust,"
@DaltonJ_Johnson
isn't giving up on Brandin Podziemski just yet @MorningRoast957
If he's not a high volume 38% 3 pt shooter in the league he's not going to be successful, no first step to play the point unless he's strictly playing in a motion offense and doing DHOs all game and defensively he's not going to survive unless he's at the 1.
If his shooting translates he has a lot of potential especially working with Chris Paul to upgrade his midrange/floater game
Your last sentence demands patience. We should expect far better shooting than we've seen so far. First impression was not aced, but that's all it was.
I really liked his vision and all the other things he does, he just has to be successful as a pull-up 3pt shooter to really add value to a team with his size and athleticism.
I still wish we had miller idk what they were thinking lol even if he doesn't become a good shooter he still has a higher floor then podz
His shooting stats stink over this 6 game stretch… so casuals will roll their eyes and have a hot “this guy who was supposed to be a good shooter stinks at shooting? Bust” take
Just realized how crazy of a young core Houston has. Jabari Smith Jr , Eason, Amen , Jalen Green plus Sengun is a pretty damn good group of young guys and they still have KPJ who they should probably dangle for an established star. OKC and Houston will be a problem in a year or two from now.
Each young HOU player seems promising and they all seem to not work together. It’s like four iso players and Sengun who could be micro-Jokic if he had cutters. Maybe new coach Udoka can pull it together…
They took some really good steps though. Amen is supposed to be a high IQ playmaker. They brought in FVV to be the key distributor. Now, as opposed to just having Sengun be a "connector" you have two more guys as part of the key rotation.
The final step is just addition by subtraction. Just dump KPJ. Matching him in the backcourt with Jalen Green has been their biggest problem, IMO. It's really hard for anyone else to succeed when the ball is constantly controlled by a couple shot hungy combo guards. One is fine, two is a disaster.
Everyone is gonna be a problem out West (and quite a few East). We got competent GMs throughout the league now, great developmental staffs, and so much talent. Need expansion honestly and id go 4 teams (vancouver, Vegas, Seattle, and KC) instead of 2
Why expand? The league is best under two nearly extreme conditions:
1)2-4 consistently competitive teams that casual fans learn about, 20 also rans, and 6-8 hopeless teams
OR
2)20 teams in the running with high-level talent, 5 teams rebuilding, and 5 hopeless teams who are doing their rebuild wrong.
Option 1 happens when talent gets concentrated. The league as a whole benefits, but some owners are in danger of losing money. Nice thing about Option 1 is rivalries get built amongst the top teams.
Option 2 happens when talent spreads. The leagues benefits a little less, but more teams have large profits. Nice thing about Option 2 is there's more risk to load management because one loss can knock you out of the play-offs (so the Dubs, instead of resting Curry, Klay, AND Dray in their one visit to Orlando, now rest only 1 and still try to win the game, which is better for fans in Orlando (and other rebuilding or hopeless team cities).
Expand too much and you end up in the middle of those extremes, and all fans lose if that happens.
I'm not too worried about these things, but I'm just blindly speculating, and I've been wrong before... if the league decides they can expand their player base by another 30x guys while maintaining quality of play, I fully expect expansion in properly distributed markets to produce more value than they're worth.
Remember that when the Bulls won 72 games, it was the first year after an expansion. No expansion-fueled talent dilution, possibly no 72-win Bulls team.
There is a flip side to all four of those points though.
- Yes, you have to staff more FOs, but there appears to be a lot of talent coming up on that side too. More employment is a good thing.
- Having teams in "new" cities should expand the fan base, hence more buying gear overall. The idea would be that people who are marginal fans now will be more into it if they have a home team.
- The new CBA will also have an effect on salaries. It does not necessarily follow that legit stars will make more but if they do that means the money is being made to pay for it.
- The TV revenue will increase because more games are being broadcast and the audience is growing in new cities.
>The new CBA will also have an effect on salaries. It does not necessarily follow that legit stars will make more but if they do that means the money is being made to pay for it.
You may be right. But my thinking wasn't quite clear. Right now, I don't know, let's say there are 6 super-duper max players--Steph, Luka, Jokic, Embiid, Dame, Giannis (my number may be off, its just an example, fill in any finite number under 30 you want). Let's just say those players deserve that salary. Right now teams that don't have a player like that are under some pressure to pay their best player AS IF that player is at that level. Expansion will increase that pressure because there will be more options for them to possibly go as an FA.
At the same time, lower tier players will be in more demand, and that will bid up their salaries. Current teams will either pay the price, or lose those players. Then, more teams will be cap-trapped like the Dubs, most because they are paying players more than their production is worth. And the back of the bench will be two-ways and vet min guys--and the back of the bench used to be players 14-15, but it'll grow to be 11-15. Expansion is a force pushing in this direction, but of course not the only one. In my view
> - The TV revenue will increase because more games are being broadcast and the audience is growing in new cities.
You may be right, but I don't see how more games will get broadcast nor do I see how over-saturating the market increases revenue. It seems like it would just lower the per game average revenue. And even if you are correct, it will be awhile before that can happen enough to increase teams' bottom lines. Expansion teams are unlikely to be good enough to make them prime candidates for television viewing. Indeed, outside of the playoffs, how many games do the Hornets get? The Pistons? The Wizards? The expansion teams will be no better, and probably worse. And, the next tv contract is about to be signed, too late to factor in expansion. The contract should last 8-10 years. That's a long time for current teams to eat a reduction in expected revenue just to welcome 2-4 new competitors for top talent.
And it's been 64 years since the last expansion of the United States. That doesn't mean we should add another state or two or four just because its been a long time. (I admit there may be other reasons to expand, but "length of time since last expansion" is not persuasive to me).
In my experience, KC is not an NBA basketball town. It’s all about college sports, especially football, and basketball, and especially KU and MU. I would suggest another city.
It does kinda seem like Miami might be able to strong arm Portland into taking Herro? It sounds like the Lillard trade market is kinda weak and it's not clear that Cronin has the stomach to extend this out for months given the optics of "mistreating your franchise legend" (which I think is unfair but might be how it is seen).
I actually think a good version of a Miami offer would be a good deal for the Blazers. They're probably slow playing a bit and not negotiating against themselves. But I actually think they have the most to offer from a team that should be motivea
Something like Herro, Lowry, one or both of Jacquez and Jovic plus three first round picks for Dame and taking back Nurkic's contract.
I think the taking back of Nurkic's contract could be what seals it for Miami and there's a good chance that's exactly what they are not offering now.
The motivation for Miami is clear, but I don't see many teams that would be as motivated to bring on a highly paid 33 year old PG who have much to offer. Boston, Philly and LAC all make sense, but do they beat that Heat offer? The Sixers can offer Maxey but don't have many picks to offer. Boston probably won't include Brown, and their future picks don't have as much upside as Miami's. LAC has jack sh**. They don't even have enough for Harden.
Does Minny offer KAT? Do you really want KAT if you're the Blazers?
Maybe New Orleans just goes buck wild. Simmons has mentioned Brandon Ingram, but New Orleans still has picks from LA (AD trade) and Bucks (Jrue trade). They could do something like CJ back to Blazers with Dyson Daniels, Trey Murphy and some picks.
Can't they forward Nurkic to another team for some pieces or expiring contract? He's an average starting center. Would be a starter on a lot of solid teams
Bill Simmons on his pod made an interesting point that everyone is focusing on Portland, but Miami is in limbo right now with this deal hanging out there and not being able to make other moves. They might be incentivized to sweeten the deal a little bit if this thing lingers on long enough.
Cronin has every right to get the best deal possible while setting up Dame for success. If Miami’s trade offer sucks, don’t take it. Take it into the regular season and see the leverage it gets you
The thing is i’m not sure the blazers are even getting respectable offers from other teams anymore because of the word that was being put out by his camp about him potentially be disgruntled anywhere except for Miami
Then Cronin still has every right to tell Dame’s agent to pound sand. If Miami was smart they’d say “let’s revisit this before the All-Star break” and get the rest of their roster filled out if they think dragging this out will cost them another deep playoff run
Going off just a few highlights including last night's, Trayce Jackson-Davis looks like to me like: Kuminga, if Kuminga wasn't very good, and was much less athletic.
I'll duck as fans of his chuck things at me; but it's hard to see TJD lasting in the NBA give the data so far. Someone is gonna say you can't tell much of a first summer league game, which is fair.
But: I forgot bout Chet Holmgren! The Mini Wembanyama
I was struck by how different he looked last night to how he looked in his college games. In college, he played with much more force and energy. I was wondering if he were protecting his hamstrings last night?
Going off the few minutes that I saw of Trayce Jackson-Davis last night, I thought he looked like he understood what he wanted or was trying to do. When I see Jonathon Kuminga he often looks like he is still trying to figure things out and decide.
Devil's advocate: The more tools you have, the harder it is to integrate them. By this (possibly specious) reasoning, TJD looks like he understood what he wanted to do because he can only do a few things. JK looks like he is still trying to decide because he has more things he CAN do already, and perhaps more things he has the athleticism and strength to add.
I totally agree with this (seems like we all do,) but I'll add one more wrinkle:
When someone has more tools, the key question is, will they be able to focus on the skills/tools the team needs enough to improve them to championship team level, or will they end up focused on the less essential, usually more flashy parts of their game? Or even spread themselves too thin and end up a jack of all trades/master of none?
A lack of tools can shape someone into a specialist in exactly what a team needs. Loon, for example.
Kuminga is nowhere near the rim protector/team defender/passer/rebounder that TJD is.
Kuminga excels in man defense and being an excellent finisher while utilizing his athleticism to attack off the catch. TJD primarily generates offense through the post and pick and roll.
They're just incredibly different players beyond the fact that they both have suspect dribbles/jump shots.
And while TJD is currently #4 on the center depth chart, as long as he improves and stays on the team he could easily be leading the second team defense in a couple few years.
You don't think there's any absurdity in saying two players you see playing totally different positions are redundant, or that one is just a lesser imitation of the other?
No. Because the issue is not how tall are you or what position you play, but what you contribute. Some analyst was recently talking about
Redundancy in starting lineup between Draymond and cp3, because they both direct the attack. Way different sizes and even skill sets, but the relevant issue is that aspect. Similarly, TJD is supposed to rebound, finish at the rim, hit outside shots etc etc, and so is Kuminga. And if Kuminga is better at all those things which I readily admit I don’t have enough information on, then position and size aren’t the issue, but useful skills for team need. Or: tell me something you have confidence that TJD will bring that Kuminga does not.
I feel like Arash already answered this response in the comment directly above mine? (And he actually may have left that comment before you wrote this reply.)
But to answer your direct question, the hope is that TJD specializes in Looney things, in other words a Warriors 5, but with better aggression and finishing inside on offense. Would you say the hope for Kuminga is that he ends up being Looney?
My wonderful (but aged) Santa Rosa plum tree challenges your green gage plums. Also, I grew up in peach country, and a fresh peach off a good tree is hard to beat. Man this is a fruity discussion!
Those are great too! But the green gages just have so much interesting flavor, while the Santa rosas are more pure sweet. I’m waiting for my peaches to harvest… it’s a late growing season this year
Cara cara are my favorite. Consistently great navel flavor and juiciness, with just a hint of what makes the best blood oranges good (I find blood oranges to be wildly inconsistent, with the lesser ones tasting horrid).
"going off just a few highlights - give(n) the data so far."
Perhaps you might be right, but I personally find it hard to support such a definitive conclusion based on his first game while on a minutes restriction.
I don't see it. To me, TJD is a 5 both on offense and defense. JK is a 4 who wants to be a 3. TJD's greatest strength on D is help defense. That's JK's biggest weakness.
I have a totally different take on TJD. He’s a legit 6’8”/240 lbs with a 7’1” wingspan, really big legs, a strong base and an upper body that looks like he could easily add another 10 lbs. Despite what looks like a heavy lower body, he’s a springy, quick jumper and has pretty light feet. I think that’s a pretty good starting point as far as the physical stuff goes, but add on that he seems to have good vision, BBIQ and quite a bit of a dog in him and he looks to be like a guy who fits seamlessly into what the Warriors do and will be studying under the prototype small ball center. If his BBIQ is able to process info at all like Draymond, he could be the steal of this draft at #57.
Let's bet. We reevaluate three years from today. If he's a starter in the league, you win, if he's out of the league, I win. In between is a push. Loser has to stop posting for three months. You in?
No, no, no. "Loser has to stop posting for three months" sucks; it makes the rest of us losers because both of you post interesting things. So change the stakes.
As I said the other day, I expect him to be a rotational player, which alone would make him an absolute steal at #57. A lot of things would have to go right for him to become a starter, including who else is starting around him. That said, Draymond did it.
He is 3 inches taller and a few pounds heavier than Draymond Green and pretty much the same size as Kevon Looney. Those guys seem to be able to play center just fine in the Warriors system.
Draymond's an outlier and also isn't starting at center. Kevon Looney has a 7'4 wingspan.
If TJD figures out how to play the 4 like Draymond then maybe he can be a starter, but he'd probably need to be able to shoot to do that and he hasn't shown any ability to shoot.
Bench vs. Starter depends too much on politics, e.g. when Iggy came off the bench he wouldn't have qualified but Harrison Barnes would have. Chris Paul might be about to come off the bench but Jordan Poole will start. Manu came off the bench 67% of his career games.
FYI both you and Goofus are paid subscribers, for which I thank you both heartily. I believe you can check from your top right menu > manage subscription.
Will Klay get a preemptive extension? Or, would the Warriors give him one if him and his agent would agree to a team-friendly deal along the lines of Dray's new contract? If they don't extend, is it a sign that Klay is willing to lay it out this year in hopes of pumping up his last big contract - a path that could lead to him moving on?
Personally, it's my belief that Dray playing on his last guaranteed year was a source friction that contributed to a host of negative issues last year. Dray's future is now set. I think that opens the door for JK since Dray and Kerr are no longer incentivized to keep that door shut. I think it brings much more stability to the inner workings of the team as Draymond doesn't have to think of his future. Whether he starts, closes, plays 34 minutes or 18, he's getting the same check for the next 4 years. That's good.
But is it going to be Groundhog Day with Klay? He's on his final year. He has a guy named Moses Moody behind him. He has Chris Paul, not taking his position in the lineup, but moving him to small forward in many rotations. His "value" or "future value" is now one of the biggest questions going into this season. And his way of answering that question is his play on the court. As much as we love Klay, Chris Paul has gravitas. All the talk this season is going to be about who? When KD joined the team, he had gravitas, but he also played the 3 (4 in Death Lineup) previously occupied by H Barnes. He fit into the system already there, so as big as KD was as a player, in Klay's mind, he was just a better version of H Barnes and Klay just kept on doing Klay. Chris Paul, like it or not, is encroaching on Klay's territory.
All I am saying is that, when you put all of these things together, you have greater potential for negative mindsets, negative emotions with negative consequences. And we all just went through a full season of this. Dray and Klay are different people, but there is no doubt that Klay is in the leaky canoe this year that Dray paddled across the Bay in last year.
My hope is we nail down Klay to an extension, maybe 27-28 annual, that range, and commit to the core for the duration. You've already committed to Steph and Dray. That's another thing! Klay must be thinking, "aren't I one of the core?" My fear is that the team doesn't learn their lesson from last year and repeat the same mistake this year.
F it. Get Klay his seat on the cruise ship, get him out of that leaky canoe, and let's roll.
If Klay says, “I’ll take the Draymond deal”, I’d guess they whip it out (the contract, you weirdos) and say “Sign here; press hard, three copies.” If Klay says “I’m gonna play this year our and show I’m worth $35-40M”, I think the Warriors say “There probably isn’t a season you could have that would make us cough up that kinda scratch in a long term deal”.
My prediction is Klay will get an extension to match Dray/Steph's timeline. He will be here until they retire. I don't know how much longer he's planning to play but I could see him moving on (most likely to the Lakers) after that.
I HOPE you are right. Does any CBA expert here know if Klay can give a discount on this year as part of an extension if he signs this summer? Dropping his 44 million this year to 4 years/25 million would be a HUGE savings for ownership.
You can't renegotiate a contract downward. You can tear it up and pay the player more (they just did that for Sabonis, I believe), but that's all. I don't think we want to pay Klay more. :)
It's to prevent the NFL style contracts where they force a player to do a renegotiation. This just in ... the NFL sucks.
Hats off to Summer League and what it does for fans. I remember the Warriors Summer League games at Kezar - which were free. Gary Payton and Brian Shaw were playing on one side one night and were throwing alley-oop passes to each other from half court all freaking night long. The best thing about Summer League is that is brings out the very best quality in fans: hope. Hope and dreams of a better future. Hope and faith that your rookie will grow up into an NBA star. Hope and trust that time, dedication and nourishment are the ingredients that will get them there. As fans, I think we should try and take more of these feelings with us into the regular season. Winning is great, no doubt. But replacing hope with expectation is a poisonous pill for fandom. Just ask my wife.
So, thank you Summer League. Thanks for reminding me of why I keep coming back to the well of hope. And I'll try not to forget that that well is always there and whether or not I choose to use it is my responsibility.
Now, enough of that gobbly-goop.
Back to Steve Kerr's rotations and institutionalized vet/youth segregation and (grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) ..........
One think I loved about SL was anytime anyone hit the floor the closest guys to him picked him up no matter what team they were on. All that stops once regular season tips off.
Quinones shooting 22% from three in Vegas. Santos shooting 25% from three in Vegas. Podziemski shooting 26% from three in Vegas (and 50% from the line). If you include the Cali Classic stats it changes for the better but eh, too much effort.
Also everyone's favorite iso scorer Cam Whitmore is shooting 27% from three in Vegas (and 54% from the line).
I feel like we have our answers on pretty much everyone we care about:
1. Quinones and Santos are two-ways (I'm undergoing therapy to crawl off my LQ ledge).
Gui looks solid. He still has a lot to work on (defense, handle), but the size and energy are going to be useful. LQ is confounding ... the last two games were poor, and awful, respectively. Prior to that, he was doing OK.
2. Podz is having a rough stretch shooting.
On the other hand, I've been pleasantly surprised with his defensive smarts (covering the open players in transition, positioning, help defense, very good court awareness). Everything else as advertised ... not quick, but good handle, great passer, good rebounder.
3. Trayce is fine. He's already shown some P&R skills and a little bit of rim protection. Hard to say how good, but we aren't going to get that answer in one more game.
4. Some people are getting interested in Perry. I personally, am not, but to each his own. If he gets a camp invite, fine.
It’d be interesting to see if Perry has the quinones to use his big body and bang with Draymond in camp. The young man has the size to be a wrecking ball.
I seem to be in a minority, but I don't think his game is going to translate to the NBA level.
He's too slow. And, (as of yet), I've not seen the level of basketball IQ needed to compensate. He's picking up tons! of fouls against summer league competition. I think he'd be barbequed chicken against fast wings and athletic bigs.
Do we really want someone pushing and shoving and hard fouling Dray, much less Steph and Klay, in TRAINING CAMP? This is one place where age DOES have its privileges in my view.
I can't see it. In the modern NBA, you need to be able to switch out to a guard and defend in space, and Perry doesn't seem to have the mobility for that.
The Sacko. Always felt like this could be an amusing way to tease tanking teams in the absence of a viable 'relegation' option.
Each season's bottom team, its players, coaches, GM, and owner all get a "Sacko" added as part of the customary readout of their career achievements, e.g. Steph: 4xChamp, 2x MVP, 1xFMVP, 9x All Star, 9x All-NBA, 2x Scoring Leader, 7x 3PM Leader, 1x Sacko (2020).
It wouldn't really mean anything (e.g. like all-rookie or all-star appearance) beyond some socially-derived competitive pressure to not tank. Oh and make the owner and GM of the sacko team do a GOT-style walk of shame in their team's town on the same day the NBA champs have a their victory parade. Wouldn't have to functionally change any rules, but makes getting the #1 pick a little spicier for the tanking teams.
I like the idea but I think it could backfire. If I owned a team that got a Sacko, I'd turn the walk into parade/party celebrating our great draft position. If our draft pick is X, there'd be gigantic posters of the top X to X+3 potential draftees, and beneath each poster there would be a store selling team gear (including a uniform with a number and then ?????? where the name goes). Maybe we'd sell season ticket packages (like 10 game passes, 20 game passes, full season tix) at those kiosks at a small discount (say 5%). The whole event could be a GREAT way to up the fanbase's enthusiasm.
Hmm. Now that I think about it, if I owned a team that missed the playoffs, we might just do that anyway. I could walk the first half of the route head down. Then, at the halfway mark, the players would join me and we would start strutting and celebrating about what we are gonna do next year. It'd be great!
Lol, I'd be down! But something tells me that the kind of guy that titles his book "Shut Up And Listen!" lacks the sense of fun, confidence, and mental well-balance to realize your vision and its opportunities.
Of course it hasnt rained here in ages and now that we have to drive back from Michigan, it feels like we’re driving in the middle of a Hurricane out here in Central Missouri
EDIT* Anyways awhile back I was listening to one of The Ringer podcasts. Wanna say Bill Simmons Podcast talking about Caitlin Clark and they were trying to figure out wheh was the last time a player as exciting as CC came out. They were bandying names like Rebecca Lobo and Taurasi the last big name coming out before CC. All i have to say is A). Sabrina Motherf*<kin Ionescu! And b). If you’re this clueless about womens bball then maybe you shouldn’t be talking about womens bball. Reminds me of that one time Bill Simmons and Ryen Rusillo were discussing protests and race relarions in America.
No. I just use the comment boxes. Is there a better way to do it?
One way is to click on reply right below the comment you were replying to. Like this is a reply to sab’s comment, right? So there is a reply button right under her comment that you might want to use.
Below each comment it gives you the option to "like" or "reply." Please use reply. That way, we can follow the conversation. The comment box is for conversation-starting comments, not replies.
Is this the right button?
Our long national nightmare is over
Yes. That is what we are all suggesting.
He isn't a force the ball down the middle PG. So he gets caught in the air too much. He is used to feeding guys off the wing angles. Where he is fed the ball and he is two reads ahead of the spacing and movement. He did make a beautiful pass on TDY's first dunk. Dribbled in. Reversed direction. Great pass to the cutting TDY. But if your game is based on being a catch and shoot 3 pt guy and feeding out of shots you refuse or give up or see a better option, dribbling slows your decision making. He could develop into a role playing 1. But on this roster with Steph and CP he needs to function from the wing. Without the ball. His court vision is really special. Kinda scary unusual.
Was this meant to be in response to someone?
I think Asher B., regarding BPods
Sports is entertainment, and I've been thinking about that with regard to my fandom. Steph for example isn't just a great player, he's also enjoyable to watch even for a naive viewer.
But that's Steph. Elsewhere, some players are effective yet not entertaining, some are entertaining without being effective.
I'm conducting a survey here for your NBA Entertaining Player All-Stars and your Effective All Stars. Thinking here not as a Warrior fan, but an NBA fan.
For example, leaving off-court issues aside, I would argue that Kyrie Irving is highly entertaining, but not that effective. His moves are amazing to watch, poetry in motion. I would say that Looney is highly effective but not very entertaining, except for diehards like us who enjoy a tipped rebound and labored layup.
Who are your nominations for Ent-But-Eff or Eff-But-Not-Ent players?
Dame is hella entertaining, but man does he kill any playoff rotation with his defensive limitations. I think he almost can get away with it, but he's in that vein of En-no-Eff
The quintessential Ef, but not Ent, Jokić.
Tim Duncan enters the chat
Yes although some of his passes are pretty darn nifty. I am entertained.
Yes but that is because you are an involved fan. To a casual, there's nothing exciting about the way he dominates and his personality does not have a lot of pizazz slathered on top.
Eff-But-Not-Ent: HB, of course.
Mediocre (i.e., not bad) player with the Q-rating of a bunion.
That puts Draymond off the charts entertaining.
With a 2% margin of error
Steph Curry played a nearly mistake free first round in the American Century golf tournament and leads the field by 4 points (Stableford scoring). Is this the year he retires from basketball and gets his tour card?
😲 😳
Oh, look... there's Kelce & Mahomes down in the negative scores...
Steph would be there too if he played like he did in The Match
I hate to sound like a lunatic homer fan, but I am starting to love this roster. Podziemski is the real deal. I think he is playing out of position this summer. He can handle, but it screws up his base game. He is a shooting 2 or a 1970's style 3. Ala Bill Bradley, the Van Arsdales. The ball moves through him. Him dribbling a lot destroys his catch and shoot rythym. I just saw the Trayce Jackson-Davis video and read Mike Woodson's comments. I think both of these young guys will contribute a lot this year. One comment Woodson made really struck me, about TJD using 'both hands' to attack the rim and rebound. Woodson is a Bobby Knight protégé. In Indiana University speak, using both hands as Woodson described speaks to having solid fundamentals as taught and demanded and expected by Knight. IU coaches from that era do not give compliments in re: fundamentals unless they are valid. I think both these kids can play 15 or 20 minutes a night on a championship roster.
I love the enthusiasm and will giggle in delight if Podz and TJD contribute even a little over the next couple of years.
I can't figure Podz out. Some plays I think he's too small and short armed and some plays I think he's pretty sharp. Magic eight ball says: need more information, ask again later.
What your saying it's summer time. We can worry about this type of the stuff when the seasons starts!
Literally the perfect place to be a lunatic homer fan. Insightful comment.
Surprise, surprise! Lebron announced to the world in the ESPY awards that aah he’s aah not retiring?
“The real question for me is, ‘Can I play without cheating this game?’ The day I can’t give the game everything on the floor is the day I’ll be done. Lucky for you guys, that day is not today.”
Lucky for you guys??!*#!? The ego and conceit of this man knows no bounds.🤮
grade A tool
I'm stoked he's back. I want the dubs to crush the Lakers in route to a championship this coming season.
A championship with a series win over LeBron just feels right.
Instead of mocking him for getting swept and going on 39, the conversation has been about his not-retirement and the Lakers being the most serious contender to the Nuggets. LePR is over 9000
More serious than the Suns?
I don't have a personal take on this yet. I've just noticed that amongst basketball opinion-givers that enter my nba feed, the Lakers are a popular choice. I think this is at least partially shaped by changing the narrative to avoid the usual derision that accompanies a playoff sweep from entering our collective popular memory.
It always has been
*Insert moon and astronaut gif here*
At least since the early modern era
How did the fall of Constantinople affect LeBron's legacy?
https://youtu.be/IBP5NUDP28A
I thought it was just a good clickbait title, but that video is pretty great :D
+1 for the historical reference.
Pretty Byzantine argument, though.
🤣
Bron has earned a bit of arrogance imho
Steph has "a bit" of arrogance, Lebron is intolerable
He flew past "a bit" eons ago.
In his first season.
He earned the right to more than a bit of arrogance. Not that I like it, and that comment about "lucky for you guys" stuck out to me, too. Still, he was basically a star from the day he first put on an NBA uni, and he's without question one of the best of the best ever to play. So it's understandable if his ego is massive. The fact is, we are damn lucky to have been able to watch him play for 20 years, not to mention the fun of calling him names and disparaging him for all those years.
Was about to type something similar. Yeah, we get to call him an attention seeking team hopping ring chasing crybaby on the court but that's about it. Outside of that he's been a damn good father and hasn't had one scandal his entire career. I know I'm basically praising him for being a normal decent person but that's still pretty damn commendable considering his status. For Lebron to escape his teenage to early 20s without one off court incident is impressive especially when we saw how guys like Ja and Zion handled themselves lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0B_ekSrsEk
LeHubris
I don’t understand how anyone can watch any single game even one game and think this dude is gonna be a bust. Ok i get wanting Nick Smith Jr (just me) or Cam but nothing about his pace and positioning (even SL) screams bust off the bat
95.7 The Game
@957thegame
"Actually being able to watch his game, he's not a bust, and it's Summer League, four or five games whatever it's been between Vegas and Sacramento, he's not a bust,"
@DaltonJ_Johnson
isn't giving up on Brandin Podziemski just yet @MorningRoast957
https://twitter.com/957thegame/status/1679879586845450246
He's going to be good in SC.
If he's not a high volume 38% 3 pt shooter in the league he's not going to be successful, no first step to play the point unless he's strictly playing in a motion offense and doing DHOs all game and defensively he's not going to survive unless he's at the 1.
If his shooting translates he has a lot of potential especially working with Chris Paul to upgrade his midrange/floater game
Your last sentence demands patience. We should expect far better shooting than we've seen so far. First impression was not aced, but that's all it was.
I really liked his vision and all the other things he does, he just has to be successful as a pull-up 3pt shooter to really add value to a team with his size and athleticism.
I still wish we had miller idk what they were thinking lol even if he doesn't become a good shooter he still has a higher floor then podz
His shooting stats stink over this 6 game stretch… so casuals will roll their eyes and have a hot “this guy who was supposed to be a good shooter stinks at shooting? Bust” take
This happens every year in summer league. It's become seasonal and nostalgic for me.
Besides, Summer League isn't the best place to determine whether a player is good or not.
Just realized how crazy of a young core Houston has. Jabari Smith Jr , Eason, Amen , Jalen Green plus Sengun is a pretty damn good group of young guys and they still have KPJ who they should probably dangle for an established star. OKC and Houston will be a problem in a year or two from now.
Each young HOU player seems promising and they all seem to not work together. It’s like four iso players and Sengun who could be micro-Jokic if he had cutters. Maybe new coach Udoka can pull it together…
They took some really good steps though. Amen is supposed to be a high IQ playmaker. They brought in FVV to be the key distributor. Now, as opposed to just having Sengun be a "connector" you have two more guys as part of the key rotation.
The final step is just addition by subtraction. Just dump KPJ. Matching him in the backcourt with Jalen Green has been their biggest problem, IMO. It's really hard for anyone else to succeed when the ball is constantly controlled by a couple shot hungy combo guards. One is fine, two is a disaster.
Everyone is gonna be a problem out West (and quite a few East). We got competent GMs throughout the league now, great developmental staffs, and so much talent. Need expansion honestly and id go 4 teams (vancouver, Vegas, Seattle, and KC) instead of 2
Why expand? The league is best under two nearly extreme conditions:
1)2-4 consistently competitive teams that casual fans learn about, 20 also rans, and 6-8 hopeless teams
OR
2)20 teams in the running with high-level talent, 5 teams rebuilding, and 5 hopeless teams who are doing their rebuild wrong.
Option 1 happens when talent gets concentrated. The league as a whole benefits, but some owners are in danger of losing money. Nice thing about Option 1 is rivalries get built amongst the top teams.
Option 2 happens when talent spreads. The leagues benefits a little less, but more teams have large profits. Nice thing about Option 2 is there's more risk to load management because one loss can knock you out of the play-offs (so the Dubs, instead of resting Curry, Klay, AND Dray in their one visit to Orlando, now rest only 1 and still try to win the game, which is better for fans in Orlando (and other rebuilding or hopeless team cities).
Expand too much and you end up in the middle of those extremes, and all fans lose if that happens.
Why expand? Money.
Can they expand? I think there’s enough fringe stars and fringe role players to be able to maintain a healthy quality of play.
The more you expand (in order from least to most negatively impactful on existing owners profits):
--The more front offices have to be staffed.
--The less current teams can make off expansion cities' fans' buying gear.
--The more teams bidding for a finite number of legit stars, driving up salaries.
--The more ways you have to split the tv revenue.
The only way it pencils out, I think, is if ticket prices rise (for diminished product).
I'm not too worried about these things, but I'm just blindly speculating, and I've been wrong before... if the league decides they can expand their player base by another 30x guys while maintaining quality of play, I fully expect expansion in properly distributed markets to produce more value than they're worth.
Remember that when the Bulls won 72 games, it was the first year after an expansion. No expansion-fueled talent dilution, possibly no 72-win Bulls team.
There is a flip side to all four of those points though.
- Yes, you have to staff more FOs, but there appears to be a lot of talent coming up on that side too. More employment is a good thing.
- Having teams in "new" cities should expand the fan base, hence more buying gear overall. The idea would be that people who are marginal fans now will be more into it if they have a home team.
- The new CBA will also have an effect on salaries. It does not necessarily follow that legit stars will make more but if they do that means the money is being made to pay for it.
- The TV revenue will increase because more games are being broadcast and the audience is growing in new cities.
>The new CBA will also have an effect on salaries. It does not necessarily follow that legit stars will make more but if they do that means the money is being made to pay for it.
You may be right. But my thinking wasn't quite clear. Right now, I don't know, let's say there are 6 super-duper max players--Steph, Luka, Jokic, Embiid, Dame, Giannis (my number may be off, its just an example, fill in any finite number under 30 you want). Let's just say those players deserve that salary. Right now teams that don't have a player like that are under some pressure to pay their best player AS IF that player is at that level. Expansion will increase that pressure because there will be more options for them to possibly go as an FA.
At the same time, lower tier players will be in more demand, and that will bid up their salaries. Current teams will either pay the price, or lose those players. Then, more teams will be cap-trapped like the Dubs, most because they are paying players more than their production is worth. And the back of the bench will be two-ways and vet min guys--and the back of the bench used to be players 14-15, but it'll grow to be 11-15. Expansion is a force pushing in this direction, but of course not the only one. In my view
> - The TV revenue will increase because more games are being broadcast and the audience is growing in new cities.
You may be right, but I don't see how more games will get broadcast nor do I see how over-saturating the market increases revenue. It seems like it would just lower the per game average revenue. And even if you are correct, it will be awhile before that can happen enough to increase teams' bottom lines. Expansion teams are unlikely to be good enough to make them prime candidates for television viewing. Indeed, outside of the playoffs, how many games do the Hornets get? The Pistons? The Wizards? The expansion teams will be no better, and probably worse. And, the next tv contract is about to be signed, too late to factor in expansion. The contract should last 8-10 years. That's a long time for current teams to eat a reduction in expected revenue just to welcome 2-4 new competitors for top talent.
It's been almost 20 years since the last expansion.
And it's been 64 years since the last expansion of the United States. That doesn't mean we should add another state or two or four just because its been a long time. (I admit there may be other reasons to expand, but "length of time since last expansion" is not persuasive to me).
In my experience, KC is not an NBA basketball town. It’s all about college sports, especially football, and basketball, and especially KU and MU. I would suggest another city.
…ever heard of an NFL franchise named the Chiefs?
San Diego please. This city needs could use an NBA team not that California needs another sports team.
Ummm ... I've been to an NBA game at the Sports Arena (long, long time ago the Houston Rockets were the San Diego Rockets).
I also watched the San Diego Sockers there back in the MISL days (season tickets, baby!)
I'm pretty sure there are Texas high school football stadiums that are better than the Sports Arena.
Good luck getting a new arena built when they couldn't build a stadium for the Chargers.
The arena in Seattle is really beautiful. I don’t know if it’s still functional. What a great building.
You could be right but my post was really about my needs. So, San Diego please!
Fair enough. :)
It does kinda seem like Miami might be able to strong arm Portland into taking Herro? It sounds like the Lillard trade market is kinda weak and it's not clear that Cronin has the stomach to extend this out for months given the optics of "mistreating your franchise legend" (which I think is unfair but might be how it is seen).
I actually think a good version of a Miami offer would be a good deal for the Blazers. They're probably slow playing a bit and not negotiating against themselves. But I actually think they have the most to offer from a team that should be motivea
Something like Herro, Lowry, one or both of Jacquez and Jovic plus three first round picks for Dame and taking back Nurkic's contract.
I think the taking back of Nurkic's contract could be what seals it for Miami and there's a good chance that's exactly what they are not offering now.
The motivation for Miami is clear, but I don't see many teams that would be as motivated to bring on a highly paid 33 year old PG who have much to offer. Boston, Philly and LAC all make sense, but do they beat that Heat offer? The Sixers can offer Maxey but don't have many picks to offer. Boston probably won't include Brown, and their future picks don't have as much upside as Miami's. LAC has jack sh**. They don't even have enough for Harden.
Does Minny offer KAT? Do you really want KAT if you're the Blazers?
Maybe New Orleans just goes buck wild. Simmons has mentioned Brandon Ingram, but New Orleans still has picks from LA (AD trade) and Bucks (Jrue trade). They could do something like CJ back to Blazers with Dyson Daniels, Trey Murphy and some picks.
Can't they forward Nurkic to another team for some pieces or expiring contract? He's an average starting center. Would be a starter on a lot of solid teams
I think his contract is a negative. He's trended downwards the last couple years, and has missed a lot of time with injuries.
Bill Simmons on his pod made an interesting point that everyone is focusing on Portland, but Miami is in limbo right now with this deal hanging out there and not being able to make other moves. They might be incentivized to sweeten the deal a little bit if this thing lingers on long enough.
They were kind of boned once Dames agent basically other teams to not even waste their time.
Cronin has every right to get the best deal possible while setting up Dame for success. If Miami’s trade offer sucks, don’t take it. Take it into the regular season and see the leverage it gets you
The thing is i’m not sure the blazers are even getting respectable offers from other teams anymore because of the word that was being put out by his camp about him potentially be disgruntled anywhere except for Miami
Then Cronin still has every right to tell Dame’s agent to pound sand. If Miami was smart they’d say “let’s revisit this before the All-Star break” and get the rest of their roster filled out if they think dragging this out will cost them another deep playoff run
Here come the “I only want to play for the Lakers” demands as soon as LeBron retires…
being
Going off just a few highlights including last night's, Trayce Jackson-Davis looks like to me like: Kuminga, if Kuminga wasn't very good, and was much less athletic.
I'll duck as fans of his chuck things at me; but it's hard to see TJD lasting in the NBA give the data so far. Someone is gonna say you can't tell much of a first summer league game, which is fair.
But: I forgot bout Chet Holmgren! The Mini Wembanyama
I was struck by how different he looked last night to how he looked in his college games. In college, he played with much more force and energy. I was wondering if he were protecting his hamstrings last night?
If so we should be extra impressed by his per 36 numbers: 25.2 points, 12.6 rebounds, 1.8 ast, 1.8 blocks, 1.8 steals, 70.8% true shooting).
To be fair we not only expected first game jitters, he said afterward he had them pretty bad first half.
Admittedly I haven't watched much but to me, I see a Kevon Looney with more pop and muscle.
I like that description.
Which data?
😅
"fans of his chuck"... Oh, wait.
Going off the few minutes that I saw of Trayce Jackson-Davis last night, I thought he looked like he understood what he wanted or was trying to do. When I see Jonathon Kuminga he often looks like he is still trying to figure things out and decide.
Devil's advocate: The more tools you have, the harder it is to integrate them. By this (possibly specious) reasoning, TJD looks like he understood what he wanted to do because he can only do a few things. JK looks like he is still trying to decide because he has more things he CAN do already, and perhaps more things he has the athleticism and strength to add.
I totally agree with this (seems like we all do,) but I'll add one more wrinkle:
When someone has more tools, the key question is, will they be able to focus on the skills/tools the team needs enough to improve them to championship team level, or will they end up focused on the less essential, usually more flashy parts of their game? Or even spread themselves too thin and end up a jack of all trades/master of none?
A lack of tools can shape someone into a specialist in exactly what a team needs. Loon, for example.
Agree JK may have more tools, not sure he can use them already.
Kuminga is nowhere near the rim protector/team defender/passer/rebounder that TJD is.
Kuminga excels in man defense and being an excellent finisher while utilizing his athleticism to attack off the catch. TJD primarily generates offense through the post and pick and roll.
They're just incredibly different players beyond the fact that they both have suspect dribbles/jump shots.
And while TJD is currently #4 on the center depth chart, as long as he improves and stays on the team he could easily be leading the second team defense in a couple few years.
So... you want Kuminga to only ever play at the 5?
Whu. In what way is this about position?
You don't think there's any absurdity in saying two players you see playing totally different positions are redundant, or that one is just a lesser imitation of the other?
No. Because the issue is not how tall are you or what position you play, but what you contribute. Some analyst was recently talking about
Redundancy in starting lineup between Draymond and cp3, because they both direct the attack. Way different sizes and even skill sets, but the relevant issue is that aspect. Similarly, TJD is supposed to rebound, finish at the rim, hit outside shots etc etc, and so is Kuminga. And if Kuminga is better at all those things which I readily admit I don’t have enough information on, then position and size aren’t the issue, but useful skills for team need. Or: tell me something you have confidence that TJD will bring that Kuminga does not.
I feel like Arash already answered this response in the comment directly above mine? (And he actually may have left that comment before you wrote this reply.)
But to answer your direct question, the hope is that TJD specializes in Looney things, in other words a Warriors 5, but with better aggression and finishing inside on offense. Would you say the hope for Kuminga is that he ends up being Looney?
Who's saying TJD is supposed to hit outside shots?
Regarding your last question: excellent rebounding, passing and defensive positional awareness.
Makes no sense. He’s like 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Kuminga… apples and oranges comparison.
I like oranges and hate apples.
crescent wrench to chisel comparison
Sumo mandarins beat them all. Also, you can’t hate apples.
Where are you on nectarines because I’m obsessed
When they're right they're amazing! Same with pluots. I like them firm and tart (teeing that up for Goofus).
Your avatar is right on point, then.
Facts. Never understood that saying, you can easily compare two fruits with each other. Oranges (especially blood oranges) are way better.
You can compare just about anything.
Home grown navel oranges over your blood oranges. And green gage plums kick all the other fruits' butts.
My wonderful (but aged) Santa Rosa plum tree challenges your green gage plums. Also, I grew up in peach country, and a fresh peach off a good tree is hard to beat. Man this is a fruity discussion!
Those are great too! But the green gages just have so much interesting flavor, while the Santa rosas are more pure sweet. I’m waiting for my peaches to harvest… it’s a late growing season this year
Cara cara are my favorite. Consistently great navel flavor and juiciness, with just a hint of what makes the best blood oranges good (I find blood oranges to be wildly inconsistent, with the lesser ones tasting horrid).
Honey Crisp apples are a game changer, though.
Cosmic Crisp seem even better to me
"going off just a few highlights - give(n) the data so far."
Perhaps you might be right, but I personally find it hard to support such a definitive conclusion based on his first game while on a minutes restriction.
Fusho.
I just like making predictions based on little information, because it’s no big accomplishment to say for example hey wemby looks good.
We have that data pretty conclusively.
Predict first, learn later, is my motto.
spoken like a psychoanalyst...?
I wouldn’t know. I’m not one.
Sorry
I don't see it. To me, TJD is a 5 both on offense and defense. JK is a 4 who wants to be a 3. TJD's greatest strength on D is help defense. That's JK's biggest weakness.
The comparison is not about position, for me. It’s the era of positionless basketball, as Jalen Rose always says.
But then again he just got fired.
I don’t think that anything to do with his performance.
I have a totally different take on TJD. He’s a legit 6’8”/240 lbs with a 7’1” wingspan, really big legs, a strong base and an upper body that looks like he could easily add another 10 lbs. Despite what looks like a heavy lower body, he’s a springy, quick jumper and has pretty light feet. I think that’s a pretty good starting point as far as the physical stuff goes, but add on that he seems to have good vision, BBIQ and quite a bit of a dog in him and he looks to be like a guy who fits seamlessly into what the Warriors do and will be studying under the prototype small ball center. If his BBIQ is able to process info at all like Draymond, he could be the steal of this draft at #57.
Let's bet. We reevaluate three years from today. If he's a starter in the league, you win, if he's out of the league, I win. In between is a push. Loser has to stop posting for three months. You in?
No, no, no. "Loser has to stop posting for three months" sucks; it makes the rest of us losers because both of you post interesting things. So change the stakes.
As I said the other day, I expect him to be a rotational player, which alone would make him an absolute steal at #57. A lot of things would have to go right for him to become a starter, including who else is starting around him. That said, Draymond did it.
TJD isn't going to be a starter, not big enough. But he could be a Larry Nance or even Brandon Clarke type imo.
EDIT: Hello, me from three years from now. Yes, I was dumb enough to assume TJD wasn't going to be a two-time All Star. Fuck me, right?
Worth noting: He’s 25 pounds bigger than Clarke.
He is 3 inches taller and a few pounds heavier than Draymond Green and pretty much the same size as Kevon Looney. Those guys seem to be able to play center just fine in the Warriors system.
Draymond's an outlier and also isn't starting at center. Kevon Looney has a 7'4 wingspan.
If TJD figures out how to play the 4 like Draymond then maybe he can be a starter, but he'd probably need to be able to shoot to do that and he hasn't shown any ability to shoot.
You should be kinder to your former self. How could you have known? He looked so unimpressive but this was before the back to back 60-60-100 seasons
Instead of stopping posting, how about the loser buys the other a DNHQ subscription?
ALWAYS. BE. CLOSING.
(Also starter seems like a pretty high bar to reach. If you really bet, I suggest a lower bar. )
I’ll buy Goofus a sub anyway for being such a stalwart contributor. (And I believe I am one, how do I double check that?)
Speaking of stalwart contributions, it’s pretty telling that your ceiling for TJD is “don’t go thinking this guy starts in the NBA”
Hyperbole aside, I do agree that the most likely outcome is rotational utility guy.
Bench vs. Starter depends too much on politics, e.g. when Iggy came off the bench he wouldn't have qualified but Harrison Barnes would have. Chris Paul might be about to come off the bench but Jordan Poole will start. Manu came off the bench 67% of his career games.
FYI both you and Goofus are paid subscribers, for which I thank you both heartily. I believe you can check from your top right menu > manage subscription.
Rotational utility guy? Good at doing the little things at the 5? On a team like the Warriors? No thanks, never needed one!
Oh I can definitely dream about him starting… just didn’t seem like a fair bet
Spot starts seem reasonable, on rest nights for somebody.
Will Klay get a preemptive extension? Or, would the Warriors give him one if him and his agent would agree to a team-friendly deal along the lines of Dray's new contract? If they don't extend, is it a sign that Klay is willing to lay it out this year in hopes of pumping up his last big contract - a path that could lead to him moving on?
Personally, it's my belief that Dray playing on his last guaranteed year was a source friction that contributed to a host of negative issues last year. Dray's future is now set. I think that opens the door for JK since Dray and Kerr are no longer incentivized to keep that door shut. I think it brings much more stability to the inner workings of the team as Draymond doesn't have to think of his future. Whether he starts, closes, plays 34 minutes or 18, he's getting the same check for the next 4 years. That's good.
But is it going to be Groundhog Day with Klay? He's on his final year. He has a guy named Moses Moody behind him. He has Chris Paul, not taking his position in the lineup, but moving him to small forward in many rotations. His "value" or "future value" is now one of the biggest questions going into this season. And his way of answering that question is his play on the court. As much as we love Klay, Chris Paul has gravitas. All the talk this season is going to be about who? When KD joined the team, he had gravitas, but he also played the 3 (4 in Death Lineup) previously occupied by H Barnes. He fit into the system already there, so as big as KD was as a player, in Klay's mind, he was just a better version of H Barnes and Klay just kept on doing Klay. Chris Paul, like it or not, is encroaching on Klay's territory.
All I am saying is that, when you put all of these things together, you have greater potential for negative mindsets, negative emotions with negative consequences. And we all just went through a full season of this. Dray and Klay are different people, but there is no doubt that Klay is in the leaky canoe this year that Dray paddled across the Bay in last year.
My hope is we nail down Klay to an extension, maybe 27-28 annual, that range, and commit to the core for the duration. You've already committed to Steph and Dray. That's another thing! Klay must be thinking, "aren't I one of the core?" My fear is that the team doesn't learn their lesson from last year and repeat the same mistake this year.
F it. Get Klay his seat on the cruise ship, get him out of that leaky canoe, and let's roll.
If Klay says, “I’ll take the Draymond deal”, I’d guess they whip it out (the contract, you weirdos) and say “Sign here; press hard, three copies.” If Klay says “I’m gonna play this year our and show I’m worth $35-40M”, I think the Warriors say “There probably isn’t a season you could have that would make us cough up that kinda scratch in a long term deal”.
My prediction is Klay will get an extension to match Dray/Steph's timeline. He will be here until they retire. I don't know how much longer he's planning to play but I could see him moving on (most likely to the Lakers) after that.
Yea that's how I see it too. Could be some debate about cash but when push comes to shove he stays.
I HOPE you are right. Does any CBA expert here know if Klay can give a discount on this year as part of an extension if he signs this summer? Dropping his 44 million this year to 4 years/25 million would be a HUGE savings for ownership.
You can't renegotiate a contract downward. You can tear it up and pay the player more (they just did that for Sabonis, I believe), but that's all. I don't think we want to pay Klay more. :)
It's to prevent the NFL style contracts where they force a player to do a renegotiation. This just in ... the NFL sucks.
I am pretty sure his deal for this year is set in stone
That is most unfortunate!
Hats off to Summer League and what it does for fans. I remember the Warriors Summer League games at Kezar - which were free. Gary Payton and Brian Shaw were playing on one side one night and were throwing alley-oop passes to each other from half court all freaking night long. The best thing about Summer League is that is brings out the very best quality in fans: hope. Hope and dreams of a better future. Hope and faith that your rookie will grow up into an NBA star. Hope and trust that time, dedication and nourishment are the ingredients that will get them there. As fans, I think we should try and take more of these feelings with us into the regular season. Winning is great, no doubt. But replacing hope with expectation is a poisonous pill for fandom. Just ask my wife.
So, thank you Summer League. Thanks for reminding me of why I keep coming back to the well of hope. And I'll try not to forget that that well is always there and whether or not I choose to use it is my responsibility.
Now, enough of that gobbly-goop.
Back to Steve Kerr's rotations and institutionalized vet/youth segregation and (grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) ..........
Oh, well. A fan is a fan is a fan is a fan.
Watching Steph casually drop 50 in the ProAm Summer in Kezar right before MVP 1.0… what a great memory that was.
One think I loved about SL was anytime anyone hit the floor the closest guys to him picked him up no matter what team they were on. All that stops once regular season tips off.
Quinones shooting 22% from three in Vegas. Santos shooting 25% from three in Vegas. Podziemski shooting 26% from three in Vegas (and 50% from the line). If you include the Cali Classic stats it changes for the better but eh, too much effort.
Also everyone's favorite iso scorer Cam Whitmore is shooting 27% from three in Vegas (and 54% from the line).
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. I though everybody knew that
How well did our current stars do in Summer League?
They are probably using Carnival rims in Vegas.
I feel like we have our answers on pretty much everyone we care about:
1. Quinones and Santos are two-ways (I'm undergoing therapy to crawl off my LQ ledge).
Gui looks solid. He still has a lot to work on (defense, handle), but the size and energy are going to be useful. LQ is confounding ... the last two games were poor, and awful, respectively. Prior to that, he was doing OK.
2. Podz is having a rough stretch shooting.
On the other hand, I've been pleasantly surprised with his defensive smarts (covering the open players in transition, positioning, help defense, very good court awareness). Everything else as advertised ... not quick, but good handle, great passer, good rebounder.
3. Trayce is fine. He's already shown some P&R skills and a little bit of rim protection. Hard to say how good, but we aren't going to get that answer in one more game.
4. Some people are getting interested in Perry. I personally, am not, but to each his own. If he gets a camp invite, fine.
Perry was Trash for the first four games, then pretty great the last two… camp invite and let him show the last two are more representative
It’d be interesting to see if Perry has the quinones to use his big body and bang with Draymond in camp. The young man has the size to be a wrecking ball.
I seem to be in a minority, but I don't think his game is going to translate to the NBA level.
He's too slow. And, (as of yet), I've not seen the level of basketball IQ needed to compensate. He's picking up tons! of fouls against summer league competition. I think he'd be barbequed chicken against fast wings and athletic bigs.
I agree with everything you said. I think he’d be camp fodder but that his only chance is to be a punisher/foul eater to bother bigs.
Do we really want someone pushing and shoving and hard fouling Dray, much less Steph and Klay, in TRAINING CAMP? This is one place where age DOES have its privileges in my view.
I can't see it. In the modern NBA, you need to be able to switch out to a guard and defend in space, and Perry doesn't seem to have the mobility for that.
Summer League Warriors last game
Opponent: Toronto Raptors
Cox Pavilion
12:00 PM, July 15, 2023 (Saturday)
Coverage: ESPN
https://www.espn.com/nba-summer-league/game?gameId=401558293&league=nba-summer-las-vegas
The Super (toilet) Bowl!
The Sacko. Always felt like this could be an amusing way to tease tanking teams in the absence of a viable 'relegation' option.
Each season's bottom team, its players, coaches, GM, and owner all get a "Sacko" added as part of the customary readout of their career achievements, e.g. Steph: 4xChamp, 2x MVP, 1xFMVP, 9x All Star, 9x All-NBA, 2x Scoring Leader, 7x 3PM Leader, 1x Sacko (2020).
It wouldn't really mean anything (e.g. like all-rookie or all-star appearance) beyond some socially-derived competitive pressure to not tank. Oh and make the owner and GM of the sacko team do a GOT-style walk of shame in their team's town on the same day the NBA champs have a their victory parade. Wouldn't have to functionally change any rules, but makes getting the #1 pick a little spicier for the tanking teams.
> The Sacko.
I like the idea but I think it could backfire. If I owned a team that got a Sacko, I'd turn the walk into parade/party celebrating our great draft position. If our draft pick is X, there'd be gigantic posters of the top X to X+3 potential draftees, and beneath each poster there would be a store selling team gear (including a uniform with a number and then ?????? where the name goes). Maybe we'd sell season ticket packages (like 10 game passes, 20 game passes, full season tix) at those kiosks at a small discount (say 5%). The whole event could be a GREAT way to up the fanbase's enthusiasm.
Hmm. Now that I think about it, if I owned a team that missed the playoffs, we might just do that anyway. I could walk the first half of the route head down. Then, at the halfway mark, the players would join me and we would start strutting and celebrating about what we are gonna do next year. It'd be great!
Lol, I'd be down! But something tells me that the kind of guy that titles his book "Shut Up And Listen!" lacks the sense of fun, confidence, and mental well-balance to realize your vision and its opportunities.
The Dub-ious achievement bowl.