At halftime I was getting ready to post another looks like Steph is old and can’t do it anymore. I was even thinking about how Colby White looked better than him.
Is this what it has come to?
I decided to shut up and then something happened I didn’t see coming.
I hope this reenergizes Steph and he gets back to close to his old self. Was it a one off?
That coffee barista article is fantastic. Suddenly, I’m a big fan of Butler. And I’m tempted to try his coffee, although I don’t think I’ll be giving up my beloved Passalacqua Mexico espresso beans.
I don't think you are remembering correctly how Klay ended last season (0-10) or how Wiggins played all last season (only 15 games with more than 17 points vs. 20 games with fewer than 10 points, and 11 missed game).
Klay was UFA, dissatisfied, and leaving one way or another. The Dubs did not control that situation, and trading him was simply trying to salvage something out of nothing. So your summary, while technically accurate, is misleading.
For sure we had to salvage something. But I think I see your point. I think you're saying that the following is more accurate than dreaming about keeping Klay:
Klay leaving for nothing < ( Klay + Wiggins + misc. assets ) for (Hield+Butler) ~ (Klay) for (Hield, Melton, Slowmo)
Anyone else notice something odd about the "Butler III" on Jimmy's jersey? The name is always center justified. Jimmy's "III" trailed off further to the right. So it looks like the equipment guy put the "Butler" on the jersey, Jimmy saw it and said, "Nah, I want to go with Butler III" and the "III" was added on after the fact. That will be a special one-off Jersey for collectors. lol
If what we saw last night was Butler playing under the weather, imagine how he'd be if he wasn't. Then again, the Warriors were playing against the Bulls, and the Bulls are not a good team.
Seth Curry, Tre Jones, Delon Wright, Jaden Springer, Reggie Jackson & Patty Mills.
Would we promote Pat and add one more guard? We have to add 2. The other option is living with Moody playing some minutes at the 2 and you could justify bringing in another forward in Knox. Just go big and live with the blow-byes.
But let's not kid ourselves, we need a 3rd PG on this team to close out the season. I wouldn't mind Tre Jones, floor general, good defender.
They just blew out Indiana without Lebron. They just blew out the Clippers who had everybody playing.
Maybe adding Luka and Williams will make them worse.Hmmmmm. Kind of doubting that.
Luka and LeBron. Still hard to believe. As much as I dislike the Lakers, I am dreading but looking forward to seeing them play together. Can’t wait to see defenses deal with that. As much as JB does all the extra great stuff, they have 2 bigger and better guys that also do all the extra stuff offensively. Not defensively but they also bring sheer size and strength to the table as well.
I think you are just going to have to go right at the Lakers, attack with speed, straight up the middle and never take your foot off the pedal. Then make LeBron and Luka take every single shot and don't let anyone else on that team beat you and that means double-teaming Austin Reeves. Then maybe they might punch themselves tired.
Only could watch the first half last night... and that on my little phone muted ... totally surprised when I saw the final score after the game. Checking the box score all looked pretty good.
Main thing I wanted to say is I just saw a clip of Jimmy Butler's post game press conference. Was very impressed by his communication skills, personality which came through, and seemingly quite intelligent from watching and listening to that brief 7 min. tape.
That is a positive sign for me as to the future fit of this Warriors team!
Normally we talk about some idiot team solving the Lakers' problems, and this year is no exception - however, had it not been for the Luka trade, the narrative could likely be about Miami solving our problems - they let us consolidate our too many B-/C+ level players, didn't get any of the young guys, and provided the 1B option that Steph deserves, all with minimal draft capital spent. I think we'll be looking back in a couple years thankful that we didn't trade a million picks and young guys for KD.
My 24-year old son (who doesn't follow basketball) said his TikTok helpfully explained that the Warriors just got Harry Styles for Joe Jonas. He said that made perfect sense to him.
I've been thinking about Steph's place in the pantheon after another ho hum legendary outburst last night. Specifically I am thinking about the endlessly debated top 20 all time type of guys. This is not a debate of who fits where. It it, rather, an attempt to put the greats into two camps: "We saw it coming or could have," vs. "Nobody saw it coming."
Who I have in group A. , the Saw it coming/Could have seen it/Scouts were not that shocked by their careers Group: LeBron, MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Olajuwon, etc.
Who I have in group B: the "Anyone who claims they saw it coming is lying" group: Steph, Jokic, Giannis, and I would say Dirk.
I would not say Steph is the least predicted of the lot, Jokic is. But Steph's overall impact on the game might be the least predicted. His ceiling was viewed as "good scorer," not Changed The Game.
Great exercise. Outside the top 20, but I'd put Draymond pretty high in Group B, too, which is what makes the Dubs juggernaut so extra. (McHale and Pippen were also pretty damn important to their Group A stars' success.)
>>> I do think it’s counterproductive to reduce the situation to “his dad was dying” because it’s easy and correct to reply “well, I and millions of other people had to go through similar situations and we didn’t get the grace to be bad at our jobs for more than a year”. But maybe everyone does deserve that grace and Wiggins was lucky enough to be in a supportive flexible workplace.
I think it’s counterproductive productive to reduce his loss to a a guy with “availability issues”, especially when the cause of those issues ended with Mitchell’s life.
Yes, we should all be so fortunate to be able to work like we don’t need the money lucky and prioritize things other than our jobs, especially when one’s job involves something relatively unimportant like the results of our favorite sporting team. It’s not like Wiggins walked away from a burning building with people dying inside. If Steph played distracted because Canon had a terminal medical condition and Steph took time off to be with him, would we say he had a mental health issue?
As a dad and a cancer survivor, I will never, ever fault Wiggins for being devoted to his father and making him the priority. To me, it says a lot about Andrew and his relationship with Mitchell.
I think it also says a lot about the class of the Warriors organization to have supported Wiggins, and kept everything very quiet throughout, which I'm sure was his desire. They also gave Klay all the time needed to rehab. I'm grateful that human decency is a hallmark of "Warriors Culture."
Not nearly as powerful as your point, but an extra detail is the rumor that Andrew Wiggins was donating bone marrow to assist his father. If true, that's a lot to ask of an NBA body.
I'll also say another detail which is that in the mental health diagnosis world, grief is not considered sufficient to merit a mental health diagnosis. All that tells us is that it is presumed that any one of us might react to loss in ways that look very much like mental disorder -- depression, anxiety -- but that the professional world views that as "the stuff that happens," not something to view as a mental health issue. As you say, if Steph took time off for a family member, that's a family matter, not grounds for a diagnosis.
Well since I respect Asher and Goo/uifus, I will try to have a nuanced conversation about this and expect to be heard and not simplified.
I, like most people in the world, did not get two months off from my job when my father was dying. That means that most jobs don't flex that way and most people find a way to endure the grief and go to work.
I reject the (unintended) implication that this makes me less dedicated to my late father than Wiggins or that my father wasn't a priority, or that I understand love less. I'm a father too and an awesome one, in case that makes a difference. Surely that is not what was meant, so let's not discuss the situation like that.
Therefore, it is not enough to describe the situation that "his father was dying" since this is the only situation I've heard in the NBA when a player had two months away because of it, including Butler after losing his dad last year. It doesn't make Wiggins weak or that he needed to be traded or that the team was wrong or any of that. It means there was an unusual request made by Wiggins and unusual grace showed by the team.
As for my calling it "mental health", I was using it loosely and perhaps incorrect technically. I wasn't saying Wiggins had a mental disorder or has a permanent condition. I meant that the grief from his father's dying was so debilitating that he needed time off. To me this is ill health and is not physical, so I called it mental health.
> If Steph played distracted because Canon had a terminal medical condition and Steph took time off to be with him, would we say he had a mental health issue?
Yes, I would because "mental health issue" is not an insult to me, it's merely a description. I would call it a mental health issue if I was very stressed out by my work and needed a day off. But I'm happy to change if other terms are more appropriate and agreeable.
In just 13:26 second half minutes last night, Podz was a +38 with 3-4 twos, 1-2 threes, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, and 1 steal against just 1 turnover and 1 foul.
When Podz came into the game with 5:30 left the third quarter, the score was Warriors 76 vs. Bulls 88. When Podz came out of the game with 3:53 left in the 4th quarter, the score was Warriors 126 vs. Bulls 101. The Warriors outscored the Bulls 50-13 during this stretch, but it was really 50-12 because Kerr substituted Payton in for Podz to give the Bulls a free throw right before the 3rd quarter ended.
Over a 48 minute game, this equates to a score of 179-43.
Podz's offensive efficiency was terrible against the Lakers, and frankly his 4 of 6 missed free throws and 0 of 3 on threes (along with Rowe's 0-4 and GPII's 0-3 on threes) basically cost the Warriors the game. The Warriors were outscored by 14 with Podz on the court in that game.
But he still had 8 rebounds and 7 assists against just 1 turnover and 2 fouls.
As measured by Hollinger's game score, Podz's last 8 games are the best 8 games of his young NBA career: https://stathead.com/tiny/OUsdR
In fact, as measured by both box plus/minus and Hollinger's game score, Podz's last 15 games are the best 15 games of his young NBA career: https://stathead.com/tiny/rVYJ8
So he started on this tear way back in December for the last 6 games before he was injured. Of course, the game he was injured in he only played 11 minutes and he had one very offensively inefficient game on the back end of a back to back against the Lakers. But in 13 of the last 14 games in which he has gotten more than 12 minutes of playing time, he has played the definition of winning basketball.
Check out these numbers over his last 15 games:
52% FG, 43% three, 65.5% true shooting.
187 points, 69 rebounds, 54 assists, and 19 steals against just 13 turnovers and 19 fouls
17.8 points, 6.6 rebounds, 5.1 assists, and 1.8 steals against just 1.2 turnovers and 1.8 fouls per 36 minutes played
Sure he's shooting well and passing well and rebounding well, but he doesn't do the little things, the intangibles, the hustle. He has no interest in the 50-50 plays or taking charges. He's just out there stat padding and trying to avoid contact.
But can he do it consistently? Sorry, that was a joke. I hate hearing that question directed at younger players who have undefined roles and yo-yo minutes. Once again, BP is proving people wrong. His confidence is Ricky Henderson-esque. I can't wait for Podz to start talking about himself in the third person.
On behalf of the #PodzSquad I’m giving this post a ❤️. The post-game announcers were carrying on with the bullshit narrative that Podz suddenly got good after returning from the ab injury when in fact, he’d been turning it around since December.
At halftime I was getting ready to post another looks like Steph is old and can’t do it anymore. I was even thinking about how Colby White looked better than him.
Is this what it has come to?
I decided to shut up and then something happened I didn’t see coming.
I hope this reenergizes Steph and he gets back to close to his old self. Was it a one off?
Is he back?
Stay tuned.
That coffee barista article is fantastic. Suddenly, I’m a big fan of Butler. And I’m tempted to try his coffee, although I don’t think I’ll be giving up my beloved Passalacqua Mexico espresso beans.
https://dubnationhq.com/p/the-jimmy-butler-era-begins-the-warriors NEW THREAD ALERT OMG!
News about Kuminga comeback?
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/warriors/article/warriors-jimmy-butler-era-begins-steph-curry-20155670.php
"Golden State’s victory was the first for an NBA team in the play-by-play era in which it won a game by at least 21 after trailing by as many as 24."
Even more impressively, the Warriors trailed by 24 in the THIRD QUARTER!
So... we effectively went from
(Klay + Wiggins + protected 1st round pick + net 1 second round pick + misc.) --> (Hield + Butler) ...
If you asked me before the season started, I'm not sure I would've said this was an upgrade... maybe a wash at best.
I mean, imagine Klay + Wiggins, plus whatever we can get back for Reece + protected 1st round pick + 1 second round pick, and play Moody more
I don't think you are remembering correctly how Klay ended last season (0-10) or how Wiggins played all last season (only 15 games with more than 17 points vs. 20 games with fewer than 10 points, and 11 missed game).
Klay was UFA, dissatisfied, and leaving one way or another. The Dubs did not control that situation, and trading him was simply trying to salvage something out of nothing. So your summary, while technically accurate, is misleading.
For sure we had to salvage something. But I think I see your point. I think you're saying that the following is more accurate than dreaming about keeping Klay:
Klay leaving for nothing < ( Klay + Wiggins + misc. assets ) for (Hield+Butler) ~ (Klay) for (Hield, Melton, Slowmo)
That's the formula!
Anyone else notice something odd about the "Butler III" on Jimmy's jersey? The name is always center justified. Jimmy's "III" trailed off further to the right. So it looks like the equipment guy put the "Butler" on the jersey, Jimmy saw it and said, "Nah, I want to go with Butler III" and the "III" was added on after the fact. That will be a special one-off Jersey for collectors. lol
So we going with JB3?
It was the 1 year anniversary of his fathers death, and he decided to go by his full name Jimmy Butler III to honor him
I read it and thought he wanted people to know he was under the weather.
Like the Beastie Boys, he has a license to do that.
Not under the weather, out of game shape.
See my comment below
If what we saw last night was Butler playing under the weather, imagine how he'd be if he wasn't. Then again, the Warriors were playing against the Bulls, and the Bulls are not a good team.
My comment was a joke. (Roman numeral “3” and the word “ill” with a capital “i” are indistinguishable.)
I mean his game *is* pretty sick
And I read that they actually fixed the centering during the game. A new one got printed that was more centered.
(What a coincidence that both players involved in this trade had to deal with the death of their fathers recently)
Timpf on last night’s game (starts at 25:00) https://youtu.be/O5bmFPty6Ts?si=VwvMFhvE1XbzvxFL
…and here’s Alc’s take https://youtu.be/Yj3E8gQdK7k?si=RC90TSjyun1sF7qD
Pat Spenser vs. The Buy-Out Market
Possible targets.
Seth Curry, Tre Jones, Delon Wright, Jaden Springer, Reggie Jackson & Patty Mills.
Would we promote Pat and add one more guard? We have to add 2. The other option is living with Moody playing some minutes at the 2 and you could justify bringing in another forward in Knox. Just go big and live with the blow-byes.
But let's not kid ourselves, we need a 3rd PG on this team to close out the season. I wouldn't mind Tre Jones, floor general, good defender.
What about Brogdan?
I stopped pining for Brogdon a long time ago. Not because I don't like him. I love him, but I had to move on with my life!
What is going on with the Lakers?
They just blew out Indiana without Lebron. They just blew out the Clippers who had everybody playing.
Maybe adding Luka and Williams will make them worse.Hmmmmm. Kind of doubting that.
Luka and LeBron. Still hard to believe. As much as I dislike the Lakers, I am dreading but looking forward to seeing them play together. Can’t wait to see defenses deal with that. As much as JB does all the extra great stuff, they have 2 bigger and better guys that also do all the extra stuff offensively. Not defensively but they also bring sheer size and strength to the table as well.
It will not be boring.
I think you are just going to have to go right at the Lakers, attack with speed, straight up the middle and never take your foot off the pedal. Then make LeBron and Luka take every single shot and don't let anyone else on that team beat you and that means double-teaming Austin Reeves. Then maybe they might punch themselves tired.
Rope a dope?
Have 2 guys on the same team ever gone for 50+ in a game?
I would love to see it, especially if they lost!! haha
Williams failed his physical. Trade is rescinded.
That could be bad or good. Why do I have a feeling it will be bad for us?
Only could watch the first half last night... and that on my little phone muted ... totally surprised when I saw the final score after the game. Checking the box score all looked pretty good.
Main thing I wanted to say is I just saw a clip of Jimmy Butler's post game press conference. Was very impressed by his communication skills, personality which came through, and seemingly quite intelligent from watching and listening to that brief 7 min. tape.
That is a positive sign for me as to the future fit of this Warriors team!
Normally we talk about some idiot team solving the Lakers' problems, and this year is no exception - however, had it not been for the Luka trade, the narrative could likely be about Miami solving our problems - they let us consolidate our too many B-/C+ level players, didn't get any of the young guys, and provided the 1B option that Steph deserves, all with minimal draft capital spent. I think we'll be looking back in a couple years thankful that we didn't trade a million picks and young guys for KD.
My 24-year old son (who doesn't follow basketball) said his TikTok helpfully explained that the Warriors just got Harry Styles for Joe Jonas. He said that made perfect sense to him.
I think that means that we gave up Syd Barrett but gained David Gilmour.
(Oh, God, what have I done, incoming wrath from Syd fandom ... I'll duck)
We just got Ringo to replace Pete Best.
in this analogy, is Steph John or Paul?
In that analogy, Steph is definitely Paul the perfectionist. Draymond is John, the brilliant asshole.
So George Looney?!
Steph is Mick Jagger, Draymond is Keith and we just replaced Mick Taylor with Ron Wood.
Thanks I'd way rather have Mick Taylor. Not buying that comp.
Both are very talented. Taylor was younger and Wood was a cagey vet from another team.
I've been thinking about Steph's place in the pantheon after another ho hum legendary outburst last night. Specifically I am thinking about the endlessly debated top 20 all time type of guys. This is not a debate of who fits where. It it, rather, an attempt to put the greats into two camps: "We saw it coming or could have," vs. "Nobody saw it coming."
Who I have in group A. , the Saw it coming/Could have seen it/Scouts were not that shocked by their careers Group: LeBron, MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Olajuwon, etc.
Who I have in group B: the "Anyone who claims they saw it coming is lying" group: Steph, Jokic, Giannis, and I would say Dirk.
I would not say Steph is the least predicted of the lot, Jokic is. But Steph's overall impact on the game might be the least predicted. His ceiling was viewed as "good scorer," not Changed The Game.
Kobe?
Gotta mention Kareem in group A. Greatest college player ever.
Dirk definitely right - people were heavily discounting European guys. All the way to Luka, who is an interesting one in between Group A and B.
The straight from HS guys...Kobe, KG.
Maybe this exercise is just college v intl v HS except for Bron and Steph.
Great exercise. Outside the top 20, but I'd put Draymond pretty high in Group B, too, which is what makes the Dubs juggernaut so extra. (McHale and Pippen were also pretty damn important to their Group A stars' success.)
It your starting point draft day?
Sure, let's say game one is start point. Or either way.
>>> I do think it’s counterproductive to reduce the situation to “his dad was dying” because it’s easy and correct to reply “well, I and millions of other people had to go through similar situations and we didn’t get the grace to be bad at our jobs for more than a year”. But maybe everyone does deserve that grace and Wiggins was lucky enough to be in a supportive flexible workplace.
I think it’s counterproductive productive to reduce his loss to a a guy with “availability issues”, especially when the cause of those issues ended with Mitchell’s life.
Yes, we should all be so fortunate to be able to work like we don’t need the money lucky and prioritize things other than our jobs, especially when one’s job involves something relatively unimportant like the results of our favorite sporting team. It’s not like Wiggins walked away from a burning building with people dying inside. If Steph played distracted because Canon had a terminal medical condition and Steph took time off to be with him, would we say he had a mental health issue?
As a dad and a cancer survivor, I will never, ever fault Wiggins for being devoted to his father and making him the priority. To me, it says a lot about Andrew and his relationship with Mitchell.
I think it also says a lot about the class of the Warriors organization to have supported Wiggins, and kept everything very quiet throughout, which I'm sure was his desire. They also gave Klay all the time needed to rehab. I'm grateful that human decency is a hallmark of "Warriors Culture."
This side of how they handled the Punch, I agree.
Not nearly as powerful as your point, but an extra detail is the rumor that Andrew Wiggins was donating bone marrow to assist his father. If true, that's a lot to ask of an NBA body.
I'll also say another detail which is that in the mental health diagnosis world, grief is not considered sufficient to merit a mental health diagnosis. All that tells us is that it is presumed that any one of us might react to loss in ways that look very much like mental disorder -- depression, anxiety -- but that the professional world views that as "the stuff that happens," not something to view as a mental health issue. As you say, if Steph took time off for a family member, that's a family matter, not grounds for a diagnosis.
Well since I respect Asher and Goo/uifus, I will try to have a nuanced conversation about this and expect to be heard and not simplified.
I, like most people in the world, did not get two months off from my job when my father was dying. That means that most jobs don't flex that way and most people find a way to endure the grief and go to work.
I reject the (unintended) implication that this makes me less dedicated to my late father than Wiggins or that my father wasn't a priority, or that I understand love less. I'm a father too and an awesome one, in case that makes a difference. Surely that is not what was meant, so let's not discuss the situation like that.
Therefore, it is not enough to describe the situation that "his father was dying" since this is the only situation I've heard in the NBA when a player had two months away because of it, including Butler after losing his dad last year. It doesn't make Wiggins weak or that he needed to be traded or that the team was wrong or any of that. It means there was an unusual request made by Wiggins and unusual grace showed by the team.
As for my calling it "mental health", I was using it loosely and perhaps incorrect technically. I wasn't saying Wiggins had a mental disorder or has a permanent condition. I meant that the grief from his father's dying was so debilitating that he needed time off. To me this is ill health and is not physical, so I called it mental health.
> If Steph played distracted because Canon had a terminal medical condition and Steph took time off to be with him, would we say he had a mental health issue?
Yes, I would because "mental health issue" is not an insult to me, it's merely a description. I would call it a mental health issue if I was very stressed out by my work and needed a day off. But I'm happy to change if other terms are more appropriate and agreeable.
For sure! Since it was never substantiated, I didn’t include it above, but it absolutely could have contributed to the situation.
Honestly, all sides of that event handled it with humanity and grace (I include the team, and the individual players).
It seems to be some of the fans that have the problem with it, which is a little sad. I am not speaking of anyone particular on this site, BTW.
In just 13:26 second half minutes last night, Podz was a +38 with 3-4 twos, 1-2 threes, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, and 1 steal against just 1 turnover and 1 foul.
When Podz came into the game with 5:30 left the third quarter, the score was Warriors 76 vs. Bulls 88. When Podz came out of the game with 3:53 left in the 4th quarter, the score was Warriors 126 vs. Bulls 101. The Warriors outscored the Bulls 50-13 during this stretch, but it was really 50-12 because Kerr substituted Payton in for Podz to give the Bulls a free throw right before the 3rd quarter ended.
Over a 48 minute game, this equates to a score of 179-43.
Podz's offensive efficiency was terrible against the Lakers, and frankly his 4 of 6 missed free throws and 0 of 3 on threes (along with Rowe's 0-4 and GPII's 0-3 on threes) basically cost the Warriors the game. The Warriors were outscored by 14 with Podz on the court in that game.
But he still had 8 rebounds and 7 assists against just 1 turnover and 2 fouls.
As measured by Hollinger's game score, Podz's last 8 games are the best 8 games of his young NBA career: https://stathead.com/tiny/OUsdR
In fact, as measured by both box plus/minus and Hollinger's game score, Podz's last 15 games are the best 15 games of his young NBA career: https://stathead.com/tiny/rVYJ8
So he started on this tear way back in December for the last 6 games before he was injured. Of course, the game he was injured in he only played 11 minutes and he had one very offensively inefficient game on the back end of a back to back against the Lakers. But in 13 of the last 14 games in which he has gotten more than 12 minutes of playing time, he has played the definition of winning basketball.
Check out these numbers over his last 15 games:
52% FG, 43% three, 65.5% true shooting.
187 points, 69 rebounds, 54 assists, and 19 steals against just 13 turnovers and 19 fouls
17.8 points, 6.6 rebounds, 5.1 assists, and 1.8 steals against just 1.2 turnovers and 1.8 fouls per 36 minutes played
Sure he's shooting well and passing well and rebounding well, but he doesn't do the little things, the intangibles, the hustle. He has no interest in the 50-50 plays or taking charges. He's just out there stat padding and trying to avoid contact.
But can he do it consistently? Sorry, that was a joke. I hate hearing that question directed at younger players who have undefined roles and yo-yo minutes. Once again, BP is proving people wrong. His confidence is Ricky Henderson-esque. I can't wait for Podz to start talking about himself in the third person.
Ando knows what you're talking about.
On behalf of the #PodzSquad I’m giving this post a ❤️. The post-game announcers were carrying on with the bullshit narrative that Podz suddenly got good after returning from the ab injury when in fact, he’d been turning it around since December.