Here's a piece on Chris Chiozza from NetsDaily. My take is that he's a player you have to see to appreciate. A small JJ-Barea-esque energetic guard who plays with a lot of speed and chutzpah.
I remember hearing about him late last year (19-20) because when he got a chance to play he really opened some eyes. They had a stretch in March and then the bubble where they had a few players hurt, but he stepped into a 20+ mpg role and played a pretty big role in them winning the majority of those games. There was some buzz of "the Nets have done it again" in finding an off the street guy who can really play.
>Nico Mannion is the main player that Virtus Bologna is targeting at guard position after Chris Chiozza agreed on a two-way deal with Warriors, sources tell @Sportando. Jaleen Smith is another player on the list.
>Nico Mannion and Virtus Bologna are discussing the length of the contract, I am told
According to Perks, the Warriors will still hold Mannion's RFA rights as long as they submit a QO every season.
Meanwhile, Mannion will get to play a lot more in Italy (and perhaps also get paid more), and the Warriors will free up a two-way spot for someone more ready to contribute (I know nothing about Chiozza, just going off his age lol). And then a few years from now hopefully Mannion will be ready for the league.
100%...whole key to Nico's game is the jumper. He's got solid size, and he sees the floor well. If he's a major jump shot threat then it opens up so much. Easy to imagine him playing really well in Europe and bringing a lot of confidence in this direction developing elite confidence in that shot and having it carry over.
>The Chiozza signing makes a lot more sense now assuming the Warriors were aware that Mannion would turn down his two-way qualifying offer to play overseas.
They will hold Mannion's RFA rights while he plays overseas as long as they submit a QO every year (see Nando De Colo).
Sorry, contractual stuff is not my ‘forte’, so please tell me if I got it right. Nico got a qualyfing offer, right? So, if he accepts, that spot belongs to him, doesn’t it?
Plus, if you can, watch his match against Serbia: I don’t think to be lunatic when I say that that’s lightskinned-ChrisPaul stuff. I will be looking for those highlights for you.
On the matter of Chriss, I wonder, with JP3, Lee, Moody, OPJ and Nemanja on the bench, do we need another shooter? ( i.e. Mulder). Isn’t it better to add depth to the frontcourt, since that’s where we came up short last year with injuries?
I guess with this signing that'll rule out Mannion on a 2 way.. so that means Nico takes the final roster spot and no Chriss or any other FA. Is Chriss even eligible for a 2 way at this point in his career? Either way I'm not a huge fan of this signing even if the chances of him actually playing with the Warriors are very low.
Other explanation: they still love Nico’s future, but don’t 100% trust that at age 20 he’s ready to take over the reins as Curry’s main backup on a win-now team. Chiozza (25) is one-year placeholder for that role on a two-way deal — the slot that had reportedly tabbed for guys like Ryan Taylor and Selon Mawugbe.
If they like Nico, they can still give him the second two-way (and tons of run in Santa Cruz). Or if they love him, they give him the final guaranteed spot. Either way, the last spot can be used to shore up the big man corps.
Wing depth like Taylor is not critical now with the signings of OPJ (who looked healthy and ready to kick ass on his latest presser) and Andre, along with the drafting of Kuminga and Moody. That’s four guys to bolster Wiggs, Klay, JTA, Poole, and DLee. Nine wings is plenty.
Add one more big, sign Nico and Lee, and call it a day?
I would disagree with any plan that assumes health for OPJ though, think they gotta expect the worst and hope for the best on that one.
And even if they were confident he was healthy, signing an SG for the other two-way spot would have made more sense imo. Don't see how Mannion or Chiozza can play with Curry or Poole unless Chiozza is really an excellent defender.
"Don't see how Mannion or Chiozza can play with Curry or Poole unless Chiozza is really an excellent defender."
Hasn't really been the Warriors style, but lots of teams will pair up a couple smaller guards off the bench.
But I think the main thing is that as long as Poole and Curry are both healthy...unless Chiozza is just killing it...he's not going to be in the rotation. He's there to come up and play back up PG when those guys take a rest day or are injured.
The team really only *needs* OPJ until Klay is fully back. After that, Klay/Lee/Moody is the kind of SG depth that most teams would love and OPJ is a really nice luxury.
Neither is post-injury Klay, most likely. Wiggs is the facto “SG” (or smaller, quicker wing) alongside either Klay or OPJ. Alongside Poole, Wiggs slides up.
Death Lineup 3.0 of Steph-Wiggs-Klay-OPJ-Green could be absolutely killer if everyone is healthy. OPJ brings elite shooting that Andre lacked, and beastly rebounding that Klay/Wiggs lack.
You may be (half) right about Nico: looks like a two-year contract in Europe, which would make a ton of sense for all parties, and would allow for a wing or big with the other two-way (though I do think nine wings is plenty).
Did you see his latest presser? He says he’s 100% healthy and feeling great. Looks leaner and more toned.
He’s basically Bogut 2012 (same age, blue chip draft pedigree, and excellent NBA production when healthy) only with a far less alarming injury history. Knocking wood, of course…
I agree. They clearly liked Nico enough to draft him last year. I can’t imagine his play this last year or in the olympics diminished his stock in any way. This new guy has got to be pretty damn good to cut a 20 year old recent draftee loose. Makes me think they’ll keep them both and see how it shakes out.
I just don't get it. Is Mannion THAT bad that we had to replace him with a 5"11 PG that's way older? Let's face it he might potentially be good at defense but he's still 5"11 and 175lbs with a 6ft wingspan. I'm probably just being a negative nancy but I really do not like undersized guards and man is this guy small.
Looks like I'm getting too worked up too over a 2 way roster spot. I hope he balls out and proves me wrong. Just hope this isn't the end of Nico and we find a way to keep him around. I think he'll be a nice player in a year or two.
The stupid Siakam trade rumors have started up again. If ther eis anything to it, which I doubt, maybe Mannion become part of a trade package. Why The Warriors would throw in anything beyond Wiggins is a mystery as last year they were essentially the same player and Siakam is coming off a serious injury.
Judging by these highlights he’s a hell of a passer, takes risky shots around the basket cause he’s tiny, and when he’s going good he’s hitting step back 3’s
Apparently, he played very well under Kenny Atkinson (good defender/passer) with competent shooting splits but those splits suffered under Nash's Nets. If we get Atkinson Chiozza, not a bad roster usage, but if we get Nash Chioza then its a negative.
"Free agent G Chris Chiozza has agreed to a one-year deal with the Golden State Warriors, source tells ESPN. There’s some opportunity for backup point guard minutes on Warriors roster."
That last Kuminga play where he bullied his defender (forget who) so far under the basket that he couldn't reach far enough back to put the shot up. I feel like he still gets Summer League points for that.
One thing that just occurred to me, Kuminga has taken virtually no midrange shots. Part of his efficiency issues in the G League were because he took those too often. I'm fine with him taking as many threes as he wants in Summer League, especially since he seems to have improved his feel around the rim already in the time between the G League and Summer League. It's nice that he's cut the midrange stuff out and is usually trying to get to the rim or drive and kick instead.
Also, even if Kuminga has no 3 ball, if his defender gives space at the arc, Kuminga should be able to bully to the basket anyway. If help rotates, he will have to find the cutter. He’s shown he can see the baseline cutter, so next read is seeing the open wing if someone sags in to stop the cutter.
Didnt know wagner was 0-6 from 3 only saw him shoot 3, but he did look big and lengthy out there, it was impressive that kuminga was still able to bully him
Single Game +- is bad. Suggs looked really good defensively and okay offensively. His flaw is still lack of half-court creation, but that's why he fell to 5 I suppose.
To put what I said more clearly, single game +/- is bad is a common saying we're all familiar with. That's because normally people try to use it as an abstract value of how much someone contributed to the team, and that is a dumb oversimplification.
When you're literally saying "if they only played the minutes Suggs, Kuminga, and Moody were on the court together, the Warriors win by about 18" you're saying something very concrete. Obviously if they played a game again Suggs and Wagner could win the minutes they were on the floor, but in this game, when the four guys played basketball against each other, it was pretty lopsided.
Single game +/- is bad comparing players on the same team, or players not matched up. They were basically mirrored against each other in minutes, and all three were the main impact players for their team. He literally lost minutes he played against them by ~18 points, lol!
I explained what I was saying above. I don't disagree with you that Suggs looked like a good player, and had some nice defensive plays, but saying Suggs/Wagner played as well as Moody/Kuminga in this game is no different from looking at a preseason game where the Warriors are up by 30 at halftime, and then the bench loses the game in the second half, and saying "man, Steph looks off this year."
In a 1 game sample on mismatched(?) rosters and perhaps unrepeatable team contexts (role players like Kyle Guy and Gary Payton are playing for a contract more than anything), they were +18. That is absolutely factually correct. But I just don't think that has any value when evaluating performances in a situation like this. The eye test is probably what's most important when looking at summer league, right?
If kumings develops just an average mid range shot, he will be great. Watching this game, I can see why he is considered raw but am excited to see develop.
Moody looks super solid as well. I like these pics!
I'm concerned about that jumper because I couldn't tell you why it isn't going in. Don't really see anything wrong with it, does that just mean Kuminga lacks a certain hand-eye coordination to make them?
But hopefully it's just a case of repetition? Or maybe there is something wrong with the shot (which would actually make me feel better lol)?
He doesn't use much wrist extension in his shot, and I think he would probably also benefit from being a bit more at an angle from the basket, as that would create a little more natural path for the motion he has right now.
Here's a piece on Chris Chiozza from NetsDaily. My take is that he's a player you have to see to appreciate. A small JJ-Barea-esque energetic guard who plays with a lot of speed and chutzpah.
https://www.netsdaily.com/2020/3/6/21167542/film-study-whats-a-chiozza-were-all-finding-out-together
I remember hearing about him late last year (19-20) because when he got a chance to play he really opened some eyes. They had a stretch in March and then the bubble where they had a few players hurt, but he stepped into a 20+ mpg role and played a pretty big role in them winning the majority of those games. There was some buzz of "the Nets have done it again" in finding an off the street guy who can really play.
I really enjoyed that, including the clips!
This is encouraging.
>Nico Mannion is the main player that Virtus Bologna is targeting at guard position after Chris Chiozza agreed on a two-way deal with Warriors, sources tell @Sportando. Jaleen Smith is another player on the list.
>Nico Mannion and Virtus Bologna are discussing the length of the contract, I am told
https://twitter.com/Carchia/status/1425089952749129728?s=20
I guess Nico straight leaving the NBA for the Italian league?
According to Perks, the Warriors will still hold Mannion's RFA rights as long as they submit a QO every season.
Meanwhile, Mannion will get to play a lot more in Italy (and perhaps also get paid more), and the Warriors will free up a two-way spot for someone more ready to contribute (I know nothing about Chiozza, just going off his age lol). And then a few years from now hopefully Mannion will be ready for the league.
Sounds like a good deal for all parties.
100%...whole key to Nico's game is the jumper. He's got solid size, and he sees the floor well. If he's a major jump shot threat then it opens up so much. Easy to imagine him playing really well in Europe and bringing a lot of confidence in this direction developing elite confidence in that shot and having it carry over.
Ahhh, that makes total sense.
I’ll wait till it’s confirmed by a local source, but that feels like it could be wins all around.
>The Chiozza signing makes a lot more sense now assuming the Warriors were aware that Mannion would turn down his two-way qualifying offer to play overseas.
They will hold Mannion's RFA rights while he plays overseas as long as they submit a QO every year (see Nando De Colo).
https://twitter.com/GSWReddit/status/1425104393083396096?s=20
Nico vs. Serbia: https://youtu.be/DH5BWwMiS-Y
"Give me that shit"
https://streamable.com/i8ljnk
Sorry, contractual stuff is not my ‘forte’, so please tell me if I got it right. Nico got a qualyfing offer, right? So, if he accepts, that spot belongs to him, doesn’t it?
Plus, if you can, watch his match against Serbia: I don’t think to be lunatic when I say that that’s lightskinned-ChrisPaul stuff. I will be looking for those highlights for you.
On the matter of Chriss, I wonder, with JP3, Lee, Moody, OPJ and Nemanja on the bench, do we need another shooter? ( i.e. Mulder). Isn’t it better to add depth to the frontcourt, since that’s where we came up short last year with injuries?
I bet on this Roster:
Curry, Poole, Iguodala
Thompson, Moody, Lee
Wiggins, Porter, Kuminga
Green, JTA, Bjelica
Looney, Wiseman, Chriss
Two-way:
Nico, Chiozza
I guess with this signing that'll rule out Mannion on a 2 way.. so that means Nico takes the final roster spot and no Chriss or any other FA. Is Chriss even eligible for a 2 way at this point in his career? Either way I'm not a huge fan of this signing even if the chances of him actually playing with the Warriors are very low.
I'm pretty sure this means Mannion is gone, no other explanation really makes sense.
Other explanation: they still love Nico’s future, but don’t 100% trust that at age 20 he’s ready to take over the reins as Curry’s main backup on a win-now team. Chiozza (25) is one-year placeholder for that role on a two-way deal — the slot that had reportedly tabbed for guys like Ryan Taylor and Selon Mawugbe.
If they like Nico, they can still give him the second two-way (and tons of run in Santa Cruz). Or if they love him, they give him the final guaranteed spot. Either way, the last spot can be used to shore up the big man corps.
Wing depth like Taylor is not critical now with the signings of OPJ (who looked healthy and ready to kick ass on his latest presser) and Andre, along with the drafting of Kuminga and Moody. That’s four guys to bolster Wiggs, Klay, JTA, Poole, and DLee. Nine wings is plenty.
Add one more big, sign Nico and Lee, and call it a day?
Yeah, it could be.
I would disagree with any plan that assumes health for OPJ though, think they gotta expect the worst and hope for the best on that one.
And even if they were confident he was healthy, signing an SG for the other two-way spot would have made more sense imo. Don't see how Mannion or Chiozza can play with Curry or Poole unless Chiozza is really an excellent defender.
"Don't see how Mannion or Chiozza can play with Curry or Poole unless Chiozza is really an excellent defender."
Hasn't really been the Warriors style, but lots of teams will pair up a couple smaller guards off the bench.
But I think the main thing is that as long as Poole and Curry are both healthy...unless Chiozza is just killing it...he's not going to be in the rotation. He's there to come up and play back up PG when those guys take a rest day or are injured.
The team really only *needs* OPJ until Klay is fully back. After that, Klay/Lee/Moody is the kind of SG depth that most teams would love and OPJ is a really nice luxury.
I don't think OPJ is an SG
Neither is post-injury Klay, most likely. Wiggs is the facto “SG” (or smaller, quicker wing) alongside either Klay or OPJ. Alongside Poole, Wiggs slides up.
Death Lineup 3.0 of Steph-Wiggs-Klay-OPJ-Green could be absolutely killer if everyone is healthy. OPJ brings elite shooting that Andre lacked, and beastly rebounding that Klay/Wiggs lack.
You may be (half) right about Nico: looks like a two-year contract in Europe, which would make a ton of sense for all parties, and would allow for a wing or big with the other two-way (though I do think nine wings is plenty).
Did you see his latest presser? He says he’s 100% healthy and feeling great. Looks leaner and more toned.
He’s basically Bogut 2012 (same age, blue chip draft pedigree, and excellent NBA production when healthy) only with a far less alarming injury history. Knocking wood, of course…
Nah, I'll check it out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b1tCuSn_Vag
Oh didn't see this, thanks for the link.
I agree. They clearly liked Nico enough to draft him last year. I can’t imagine his play this last year or in the olympics diminished his stock in any way. This new guy has got to be pretty damn good to cut a 20 year old recent draftee loose. Makes me think they’ll keep them both and see how it shakes out.
I just don't get it. Is Mannion THAT bad that we had to replace him with a 5"11 PG that's way older? Let's face it he might potentially be good at defense but he's still 5"11 and 175lbs with a 6ft wingspan. I'm probably just being a negative nancy but I really do not like undersized guards and man is this guy small.
Looks like I'm getting too worked up too over a 2 way roster spot. I hope he balls out and proves me wrong. Just hope this isn't the end of Nico and we find a way to keep him around. I think he'll be a nice player in a year or two.
Isaiah Thomas is a significantly worse player
Chris Chiozza in 2 years in the G-League (per36):
14.1 pts / 7.7 ast / 5.2 reb / 3.1 tov / 2.2 stl / .527 TS% (37.0 3pt)
In his 57 NBA games over 2 years:
12.8 pts / 8.2 ast / 4.4 reb / 2.6 tov / 1.6 stl / .480 TS% (35.3 3pt%)
So....an older (25yo) and shorter (5'11") Nico Mannion?
The stupid Siakam trade rumors have started up again. If ther eis anything to it, which I doubt, maybe Mannion become part of a trade package. Why The Warriors would throw in anything beyond Wiggins is a mystery as last year they were essentially the same player and Siakam is coming off a serious injury.
Stupid indeed..0% chance we trade ironman wiggins for the fragile ball hog Siakam...just zero%
I want to like the comment... but worried about jinxing it.
Okay, who is Chris Chiozza?!
https://youtu.be/FUxBKmGHsRE
Judging by these highlights he’s a hell of a passer, takes risky shots around the basket cause he’s tiny, and when he’s going good he’s hitting step back 3’s
538 raptor loves him
… in very limited minutes. Just looking at his numbers seems like his standout skill is his passing.
Apparently, he played very well under Kenny Atkinson (good defender/passer) with competent shooting splits but those splits suffered under Nash's Nets. If we get Atkinson Chiozza, not a bad roster usage, but if we get Nash Chioza then its a negative.
Yeah he had a great stretch under Atkinson back half of last year.
Here you go.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chiozch01.html
From nets I think. Not sure
"Free agent G Chris Chiozza has agreed to a one-year deal with the Golden State Warriors, source tells ESPN. There’s some opportunity for backup point guard minutes on Warriors roster."
- Woj
Guess we have our backup point guard.
Huh?
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
15m
Chiozza will be on a two-way deal, per sources.
So the two-way playoff eligible thing was only for this past year?
What in tarnation
Atkinson hire
Uhh, who? What? Why? Can somebody explain what's going on here?
Chiozza is expected to fill one of the two-way spots, according to Slater.
Seems like a Mannion replacement? Surely they can't carry two PGs as two-ways?
Seriously? His numbers don’t look great. Plus he’s undersized (officially 5’11”)
Or perhaps they give Mannion the roster spot?
Ws got intel someone is gonna give Mannion a 15-man roster spot?
That last Kuminga play where he bullied his defender (forget who) so far under the basket that he couldn't reach far enough back to put the shot up. I feel like he still gets Summer League points for that.
Commentators said suggs pulled the chair lol
Well... sadly he did.
In case you are still wondering who Tropical Fake Rutger Hauer is: https://twitter.com/thom_not_tom/status/1424897541284405251?s=21
First thing I said when I saw him was “Rutger Hauer,” lol.
Second thing was “how old is this fvckin dude?” He looks like he’s 47.
If Rick Barry and Rutger Hauer had a surfer dude son who had spent his life getting baked (literally and figuratively) in La Jolla, it’d be that dude.
At 29 he's seen things you people wouldn't believe.
He actually has a 4-year lifespan
Holy shit I did not notice him in the game 😂 "All those moments will be lost in time. Like tears in the rain"
How could you not notice him in the game, felt like seeing a ghost on every closeup.
My eyes were solely focused on Kuminga and Moody. I tried watching Wagner but I could not pay any attention to any Orlando player
Exactly!! That hair was like a sun going supernova as it burned my retinas.
One thing that just occurred to me, Kuminga has taken virtually no midrange shots. Part of his efficiency issues in the G League were because he took those too often. I'm fine with him taking as many threes as he wants in Summer League, especially since he seems to have improved his feel around the rim already in the time between the G League and Summer League. It's nice that he's cut the midrange stuff out and is usually trying to get to the rim or drive and kick instead.
Yes that restraint was good.
Also, even if Kuminga has no 3 ball, if his defender gives space at the arc, Kuminga should be able to bully to the basket anyway. If help rotates, he will have to find the cutter. He’s shown he can see the baseline cutter, so next read is seeing the open wing if someone sags in to stop the cutter.
> Also, even if Kuminga has no 3 ball, if his defender gives space at the arc, Kuminga should be able to bully to the basket anyway.
Sounds like:
https://youtu.be/8FCloi12gy0?t=11
Except JK will be a far better defender, ball handler and distributor. That said, he’s obviously going to need to develop a jump shot.
Or like https://youtu.be/eZk6MQE5t5w?t=118
Didnt know wagner was 0-6 from 3 only saw him shoot 3, but he did look big and lengthy out there, it was impressive that kuminga was still able to bully him
He didn't use any of that size or length it felt like, he was invisible on the court.
I felt JK dominated him the first half, then Wagner started to figure stuff out. The last two calls JK got against him looked bogus to me.
It'll be nice to have someone getting bogus calls for once
Wagner: (-14, 28:43)
5 points 2/8 FGs 0/6 threes 1/2 FTs
6 rebounds 2 assists 3 turnovers 1 steal
Suggs: (-18, 28:07)
24 points 9/22 FGs 3/6 FGs 3/4 FTs
9 rebounds (2 off.) 1 assist 2 turnovers 2 steals 3 blocks
Kuminga: (+15, 29:16)
16 points 6/16 FGs 0/4 three pointers 4/7 FTs
6 rebounds 1 assist 1 turnover 3 steals 1 block
Moody: (+19, 25:52)
15 points 6/13 FGs 2/5 three pointers 1/2 FTs
4 rebounds 2 assists 1 turnover 1 steal
Jalen Suggs -18
Kuminga +15
Moody +19
"Suggs looks so impressive"
Single Game +- is bad. Suggs looked really good defensively and okay offensively. His flaw is still lack of half-court creation, but that's why he fell to 5 I suppose.
To put what I said more clearly, single game +/- is bad is a common saying we're all familiar with. That's because normally people try to use it as an abstract value of how much someone contributed to the team, and that is a dumb oversimplification.
When you're literally saying "if they only played the minutes Suggs, Kuminga, and Moody were on the court together, the Warriors win by about 18" you're saying something very concrete. Obviously if they played a game again Suggs and Wagner could win the minutes they were on the floor, but in this game, when the four guys played basketball against each other, it was pretty lopsided.
Single game +/- is bad comparing players on the same team, or players not matched up. They were basically mirrored against each other in minutes, and all three were the main impact players for their team. He literally lost minutes he played against them by ~18 points, lol!
There were 4 other players on the court for the Magic and 3 other for the Warriors.
He was still really impressive, so was Moody and Kuminga gave tantalizing flashes again.
Yeah those other Warriors starters were -10 against their bench, good point. Definitely seemed like team played well with Moses/Kuminga off
I never argued that our bench played well, that's a strawman. I just said Suggs was impressive. How is that controversial lol?
I explained what I was saying above. I don't disagree with you that Suggs looked like a good player, and had some nice defensive plays, but saying Suggs/Wagner played as well as Moody/Kuminga in this game is no different from looking at a preseason game where the Warriors are up by 30 at halftime, and then the bench loses the game in the second half, and saying "man, Steph looks off this year."
The bench did lose us this game
In a 1 game sample on mismatched(?) rosters and perhaps unrepeatable team contexts (role players like Kyle Guy and Gary Payton are playing for a contract more than anything), they were +18. That is absolutely factually correct. But I just don't think that has any value when evaluating performances in a situation like this. The eye test is probably what's most important when looking at summer league, right?
If kumings develops just an average mid range shot, he will be great. Watching this game, I can see why he is considered raw but am excited to see develop.
Moody looks super solid as well. I like these pics!
I'm concerned about that jumper because I couldn't tell you why it isn't going in. Don't really see anything wrong with it, does that just mean Kuminga lacks a certain hand-eye coordination to make them?
But hopefully it's just a case of repetition? Or maybe there is something wrong with the shot (which would actually make me feel better lol)?
He doesn't use much wrist extension in his shot, and I think he would probably also benefit from being a bit more at an angle from the basket, as that would create a little more natural path for the motion he has right now.
I think you're just worrying too much lol
Could be but Kuminga doesn't exactly have a track record of shooting the ball at this point so I'd say concern about his shot is merited
He doesn’t have a track record of anything, he’s 18.
He's got a pretty good track record of growing taller...
lol
Also this.
I'm hoping the first thing he develops is a 70+ free throw percentage
Tuche. It seems like an all his shots including freethows he's still looking to attack the hoop.
If he can learn to slow down and not go 100% all of time, I would think his shot will improve.