I can't wait to see the Warriors Dynasty documentary when this run finally ends one day. Would be nice to hear more insight from guys on the B2B title runs like David West and McGee. Hopefully we get a few extra segments from future Warriors about the next 2 championships we will win before Steph retires.
They weren't good enough this year. Morale was bad. Poole played like ass. The kids didn't come along fast enough. You can very rarely get away playing two kids at the same time and be above .500. Lamb and Ty were a way to win while they got healthy and the young guys grew. They just sucked against LA. But truth be told, they were bad against Sacto. They never jellied this year. Firing coaches is the rave. Not smart. If they had GP2 healthy all year Kuminga and Moody could have been gradually fed minutes. Lacob overpaid Poole too early which provoked Dray-right or wrong punching him. Curry just threw his mouthpiece away that one night. But the reasons were the same. Their biggest issue this season was stopping the ball. On ball backcourt defense. What does GP2 excel at. The vets begged Lacob to resign him. Myers begged. No GM stays when the owner and his idiot son take control of the roster. Maybe Lacob believes that playing in shul league qualifies him to manage an NBA roster, it doesn't. Lacob caused this train wreck of a season more than anything else. The salary cap and luxury tax shows Marx was wrong. I have no issue with a limit on what you can spend to recruit free agents. But there should be no limit on what you spend to keep guys that you draft and develop, or on guys who come in on vet minimum deals and play their asses off. As far as I am concerned the draft violates the 18th amendment and the penumbra doctrine under the 1st. But if you have a draft, you can't penalize the drafting team for being competent with their scouting and player development. That is just both wrong and stupid.
Fans can spend the owners' money without limit, since it's all make-believe. In the real world, it's a different thing. Lacob has spent vast amounts on this team. Before Lacob, we had one title 50 years ago and were mostly a doormat except for a few seasons. Under his ownership the Dubs have been consistent winners except for the two years Klay was out (and Steph for one of those). If there's one thing Lacob can't rightly be criticized for, it's spending.
BTW I don't recall reading where Myers begged Lacob to re-sign GP2 either but maybe he did. I thought GP2 should have been re-signed too. But it's not my money.
Lacob is obviously a better owner than the past ownership(s). But he has been meddling and disingenuous the last couple of years. Obviously it is his money. That doesn't mean he should not be criticized when he is not functioning in a rational manner. No team in history does well when the owner decides they are the GM. Steinbrenner et al not withstanding. Owners have to stay separate from personnel decisions. Myers and veteran players made numerous pleas directly and through the media in re: GP2. Dray punched Poole during the run up to his contract extension being formalized because of his arrogant, cocky, ass clown behavior which was clearly exacerbated by the knowledge among the veterans, the media, and both agents and front office personnel league wide that he was getting paid. Owners affect culture. You can't say that you have a team culture focused on mutual respect and individual responsibility when you cast off your second best defensive player, and a man who is incredibly mature and focused and loyal; and give huge money to a young player who is cocky and arrogant and mouthy and disrespectful to the media, in addition to being to being clearly the worst defensive player in the regular rotation? I think Lacob has been arrogant and negligent. Of course it is his money. But the team belongs to the fans and the city. He owns it in trust. He probably should remember that.
The past couple of years Lacob rebuilt the team partially and invested in the core, and we won the title one year ago and made the semi-finals (albeit barely) this year. I think a good argument can be made that this ownership is one of the two or three best in the league. Every owner has to sign off on the big signings and trades now because the numbers are so big but there is no reason to think Lacob is playing GM; Myers was steering that but working together with Lacob and others.
1)Bob sits down with agents for Wigs and Poole to negotiate a deal (Wigs) & extension (Poole).
2)Bob either does not sit down with Dray or his agent, or when he does so he lets them know they are not offering an extension this year.
3)Dray learns this (either from his agent, Poole talking smack, or someone else).
4)Dray gets angry.
5)Dray punches Poole.
6)Poole signs extension (which may have been increased a bit after the punch, which, if so, makes another example of Dray losing his cool and costing himself and/or the team).
This is accurate according to all the reports over the summer and the Warriors stated priority order at the time. Don’t waste time on people trying to create busy work saying to cite sources when they can just as easily go back and do that themselves. It’s just low key trolling by minds that are already made up.
The punch happened on October 5. So you think all the negotiations for Poole's contract extension happened during the interval from the day after the punch (October 6) and the day Poole signed, October 16? So, in your story the team had no plans to extend Poole, had not engaged Poole's agent, and thus there's no way Dray would have any inkling that Poole is about to get a commitment from the team that in the zero-sum world of the capped out Dubs would make a Dray contract extension tough, but then the punch happened and they immediately entered negotiations with Poole for a lucrative multi-year extension? If that's how it happened, the Dubs are the stupidest team in the league. They should've immediately started looking around for a trade to get something for Poole.
I don't think the Dubs under Bob Myers were the stupidest team in the league. Nor do I think Dray sucker punches a teammate over mere verbal sparring. So I do not believe it makes any sense to claim that Poole's looming extension played no role in Dray's actions.
I'm just pointing out that if a transaction that has millions of examples every year takes 21 days to close (buying a house), it probably takes more than 11 days to negotiate a multi-year $120Million contract extension with an NBA player. If your assertion that what we know is the ONLY information we can use to discuss what happened, then you are committing to a likely impossible timeline. Just sayin'.
Plus, Draymond along with Iguodala have been very outspoken about not talking about other players money. To say Draymond punched him because he was upset about his contract is silly, or like you said just false.
Yeah, I get it. But I am pretty sure, none of us are perfect. Watching his podcast with Kerr, he comes off to me as pretty self aware. He understands he has had a lot of issues- of his own making. But he seems to at least acknowledge it. To me that means something.
It does mean something. What it doesn't mean, though, is that because Dray said he doesn't discuss other players contract's he doesn't have feelings about what he HEARS about other player's contracts.
But this is all pure guesswork, speculation based on assumptions, not on anything solid. We won't know what Draymond was feeling, and we probably will never know whether Poole's contract had anything to do with the Punch.
"...How dare Kerr say about our bench lacking winning attitude.... "
I have heard these said on 95.7, podcasts and here.Alas, Steph is so beloved by us all that we forget about him in these discussions.
On the first one - Does anyone here think that when it comes to such matters as punishment, etc, he is sitting on the sideline letting Kerr and Bob do whatever the F they want. Curry played a central role in working through that crisis. Yet no one ever says Steph enables Dray. People talk about the kind of leverage Dray wields. No - it is not Dray. It is Steph who wields that leverage (and rightly so).
On the second one - Steph said something similar but worse in some ways before SAC G7 -"If you don't want to win, don't get on the bus". Essence is the same as what Kerr is saying. No one is talking about that incident when talking about what Kerr said on this podcast and instead throwing crap at Kerr (he does deserve some crap at times for sure).
I say all this to say that these guys are a unit - (Bob), Kert, Steph, Dray, Klay who collaborate, at times stupiditly no doubt.
One more thing - guess who were the first people to say that youngsters should get less time last season?
Uh, I've repeatedly said Curry is part of the problem. On this very thread I've said that. Its all four of 'em--Curry, Klay, Kerr, & Dray. The Formerly Fab Four.
Curry, a low key guy with a stellar history of team play, is the problem because he felt the need to give a speech to try to rally the troops from the disease of selfishness?
Jist a crazy idea here: what if Kerr, GP2, Curry and the rest are all actually right and the young players who weren’t very good this year were actually selfish pricks this year?
Up to a point, its appropriate for young guys to be selfish pricks. They have a very short window to prove they belong in the league. The old guys are supposed to understand that and help them, not circle the wagons against the young.
Actually, no, it is not appropriate at all for them to be selfish pricks. It's appropriate to be confident. It's appropriate to work their asses off, show up early, ask questions, respect the OGs, and learn. It's not appropriate to be selfish because that's a loser mentality in a team sport, and they haven't proven themselves yet, so it's appropriate to be humble. (This is something I love about Moody, who gets it.) It's never appropriate to be pricks.
What made me respond was that you wrote this: "Alas, Steph is so beloved by us all that we forget about him in these discussions."
I love Steph. But I do not forget him in these discussions. Look back over my posting, I've repeatedly called him out. And Klay, too. And Dray. And Kerr. I've called them out singly and as a group. They have the chance to do something really special--originate a multi-generational dynasty. But they are so full of ego, pride, and self-centeredness that instead of seizing the opportunity the universe gave them with 3 lottery picks (unprecedented for a team in the midst of a dynastic run), they're punching, ball-hogging, throwing mouthpieces, and benching everyone under 25. Its an embarrassing display.
Qn for the masses - any players with high pedigree (HS rankings) with injuries that have fallen into our range? If so, Im going to down tools and pick that guy. The Kevon Looney/PBJ selection method.
The first guys who come to mind who wrestled with injuries are Brice Sensabaugh, Jett Howard and Dereck Lively. Lively looks like he’s drifting out of our range.
One of the most informative exercises is to reflect back on one's biases and mistakes. Looking at last year's version of void's Big Board ( https://dnhq.draft-vote.xyz/2022 ), why were Dalen Terry and Jake LaRavia ranked high (4 and 5, respectively), while actual impact players like Walker Kessler and Andrew Nembhard dropped to lower half of the board (11 and 18)?
Speaking for myself, I think I overrated athleticism and underrated experience and skills, which is why I put Terry at 3 and Kessler at 15.
Are GSW and TOR the two teams in the league with the most talent that under performed this year? I know GSW got to the 2nd round, but 30 road losses is nothing to brag about. I just look at both rosters and see loads of players I like, but both groups couldn't make music together. As mentioned by another, dealing with Ujira with a new GM sounds perilous, a tad risky with him knowing the Dubs are selling out for the all in on Curry timeline. But it seems like there could be a way for a trade that benefits both teams by trading equal amounts talent, but changing personalities.
I like Anunoby but the Raptors will want a good return for him, and we already have Wiggs playing the same wing position, with JK coming up to play the 4. What are you trading to get him?
OG is making about 18.6M. JP will make almost $27.5M. The salaries aren't close enough, so you have to sweeten the pot. And are you bringing OG or Wiggs off the bench? Trading JK and starting Wiggs at the 4?
This has nothing to do with Wiggs or trading JK. Poole is a major ball handler on most teams and a big time scorer. Raptors have to sweeten the pot but there are possibilities for us there. Throw in Precious, OPJ, or. T. Young. If needs be, we could throw in Rolllins. Or, Poole for Poetl, Precious & Porter. The whole shebang rests on what the Dubs decide about Poole.
The only reason I think it has to do with Wiggs and JK is OG and Wiggs will both expect to start. JK needs more minutes. So we do have to consider that. Now, Poetl does address a need and still leaves Wiggs in the starting lineup and minutes for JK. OPJ... depends on his health, which is almost always precarious, although Dr Celebrini did keep him going with duct tape, SuperGlue, and rubber bands in '21-'22.
What's Toronto doing without a coach still? This is starting to intrigue me a bit. Not like they are waiting for Spoelstra or Malone. Are they waiting for a new GM at GSW to be crowned?
I find the CBS guys, Parrish and especially Boone, to be pretty far away from what happens in the draft. That makes them bad for projection. They could in theory still be interesting and insightful, but I also don’t find that to be true usually.
Having said that, I could easily see them taking Bufkin over all four of those players. Bufkin is a Poole-type and GSW sorely lacks off the dribble creation.
If they project Lively to the Warriors, they must be extremely accurate, though, because I want Lively on the Warriors. Seriously, though, which sites seem to have been at least somewhat accurate over the years (although this year's picks seem be especially hard to predict)?
I have found Sam Vecenie of The Athletic to be the most in tune with what ends up happening in the draft. Again, this does not make him the most insightful scout, it just makes him the most in line with what teams are generally thinking…
I don’t think any draft analyst can be expected to nail the exact pick outside of say the Top 5 (and even that is chaotic). I think Vecenie’s general order is the closest overall. I did an actual analysis of this at one point computing the average error of the mock drafts… But there was a LOT of luck to it and the Ringer did well one year and badly another year…
These are businessmen first and foremost. People forget Steph’s “Someone with Size” response when asked who the team was looking to draft prior to the 2020 draft. There is a core involving Kerr, Steph, Dray, and Klay and they’re all trying to maximize that core and if it means those 3 plus Wiggins, Looney and a whole bunch of complementary players until the wheels fall off so be it.
Lebron does the same thing except once you've exceeded your usefulness, he’ll look to trade you until the roster and subsequent picks have been absolutely scorched and devoid of any future then he’ll move on (like he’s potentially getting ready to do in a year or two when Bronny enters the league).
I don't care what the Saudis do. And American business is generally corrupt. Why should golf be different. And I guess I am more irritated by American racism on an daily basis than the murderous oil pigs running Saudi Arabia. I think as an American citizen I can do something about this society. Maybe. After 69 years I wonder. But holding golf to a higher standard strikes me as disingenuous. And futile. No. I don't play or watch golf.
Climate change is exacerbating racial and socioeconomic inequality. If one doesn't care about racism and socioeconomic inequality, one's care about climate change will end up foisting the cost of dealing with climate change and/or the cost of NOT dealing with climate change on nonwhites and the poor (including poor whites).
I don't watch golf either, but it's a pretty scary precedent, especially when you look at how oil money has messed with global soccer. Inevitably they will turn their wallets towards the NBA...
I "care" about what the Saudis do (and the US, plus hella other countries I don't feel like arguing about on a basketball website). The issue with that is I don't actually think most Americans can influence foreign policy, either individually or collectively. It's one of the places in US governance that's not democratic in the slightest.
At the same time unfortunately I don’t think most Americans are anywhere near competent enough to make foreign policy democratic. Can’t tell the difference between international cities and countries…
I think that arises because of our undemocratic governing structure, not a justification for it. Why might some random US citizen spend time learning about far off places and what their government is doing to them if it has zero bearing on their day to day and they don't have any means of changing what's happening?
If it's only to satiate curiosity, why is that any better than what we do with basketball? US folks should know about the wider world, but I get why it's not as pressing for most as the many other issues they face right now.
Part of the problem is that there a bazillion things that we *do* have to worry about. And it is literally impossible for all of us to become experts at everything. Even in the best case scenario where we all recognized our responsibilities to learn about economy, international relations, etc, we would necessarily still have to depend on the expertise of specialists. I don’t think the undemocratic nature comes from the form of government, but has deeper roots in our limitations as individuals in a very very large society that has too many decisions for any individual to handle.
Ie even in a Democratic extreme where every single government decision, including foreign relations, is put up to a vote, I still doubt we would have the capacity to make coherent policy.
You know, the US is an EXTREMELY LARGE COUNTRY. France is the size of Texas. You can drive 3000 miles and still be in the US, but if you drive 3000 miles from the coast of France you'll cross 10 to 12 countries and end up in Asia. I don't think this excuses anything, but it does put it in perspective. If we see the USA as that large, knowing about a city in another state is like Europeans knowing about a city in a neighboring country. And, as the USA is a nuclear-armed belligerent superpower, they have more reason (fear) to know about us than most Americans have a reason to know about them. Again, not excusing, just observing.
I can't wait to see the Warriors Dynasty documentary when this run finally ends one day. Would be nice to hear more insight from guys on the B2B title runs like David West and McGee. Hopefully we get a few extra segments from future Warriors about the next 2 championships we will win before Steph retires.
I don't even know what a hot take is. Just nice to take a break from the writing I do for other reasons most of every day
Per Merriam Webster:
hot take
noun: a quickly produced, strongly worded, and often deliberately provocative or sensational opinion or reaction (as in response to current news)
Everyone knew he was getting paid for weeks before. You can disagree but the information was out there and accurate
They weren't good enough this year. Morale was bad. Poole played like ass. The kids didn't come along fast enough. You can very rarely get away playing two kids at the same time and be above .500. Lamb and Ty were a way to win while they got healthy and the young guys grew. They just sucked against LA. But truth be told, they were bad against Sacto. They never jellied this year. Firing coaches is the rave. Not smart. If they had GP2 healthy all year Kuminga and Moody could have been gradually fed minutes. Lacob overpaid Poole too early which provoked Dray-right or wrong punching him. Curry just threw his mouthpiece away that one night. But the reasons were the same. Their biggest issue this season was stopping the ball. On ball backcourt defense. What does GP2 excel at. The vets begged Lacob to resign him. Myers begged. No GM stays when the owner and his idiot son take control of the roster. Maybe Lacob believes that playing in shul league qualifies him to manage an NBA roster, it doesn't. Lacob caused this train wreck of a season more than anything else. The salary cap and luxury tax shows Marx was wrong. I have no issue with a limit on what you can spend to recruit free agents. But there should be no limit on what you spend to keep guys that you draft and develop, or on guys who come in on vet minimum deals and play their asses off. As far as I am concerned the draft violates the 18th amendment and the penumbra doctrine under the 1st. But if you have a draft, you can't penalize the drafting team for being competent with their scouting and player development. That is just both wrong and stupid.
Seems like you’re trying too hard to have hot takes.
Fans can spend the owners' money without limit, since it's all make-believe. In the real world, it's a different thing. Lacob has spent vast amounts on this team. Before Lacob, we had one title 50 years ago and were mostly a doormat except for a few seasons. Under his ownership the Dubs have been consistent winners except for the two years Klay was out (and Steph for one of those). If there's one thing Lacob can't rightly be criticized for, it's spending.
BTW I don't recall reading where Myers begged Lacob to re-sign GP2 either but maybe he did. I thought GP2 should have been re-signed too. But it's not my money.
Lacob is obviously a better owner than the past ownership(s). But he has been meddling and disingenuous the last couple of years. Obviously it is his money. That doesn't mean he should not be criticized when he is not functioning in a rational manner. No team in history does well when the owner decides they are the GM. Steinbrenner et al not withstanding. Owners have to stay separate from personnel decisions. Myers and veteran players made numerous pleas directly and through the media in re: GP2. Dray punched Poole during the run up to his contract extension being formalized because of his arrogant, cocky, ass clown behavior which was clearly exacerbated by the knowledge among the veterans, the media, and both agents and front office personnel league wide that he was getting paid. Owners affect culture. You can't say that you have a team culture focused on mutual respect and individual responsibility when you cast off your second best defensive player, and a man who is incredibly mature and focused and loyal; and give huge money to a young player who is cocky and arrogant and mouthy and disrespectful to the media, in addition to being to being clearly the worst defensive player in the regular rotation? I think Lacob has been arrogant and negligent. Of course it is his money. But the team belongs to the fans and the city. He owns it in trust. He probably should remember that.
The past couple of years Lacob rebuilt the team partially and invested in the core, and we won the title one year ago and made the semi-finals (albeit barely) this year. I think a good argument can be made that this ownership is one of the two or three best in the league. Every owner has to sign off on the big signings and trades now because the numbers are so big but there is no reason to think Lacob is playing GM; Myers was steering that but working together with Lacob and others.
Res ipsa loquitur
Yada yada yada.
(Just kiddin') ;-)
Actually, not wrong. Here's the sequence:
1)Bob sits down with agents for Wigs and Poole to negotiate a deal (Wigs) & extension (Poole).
2)Bob either does not sit down with Dray or his agent, or when he does so he lets them know they are not offering an extension this year.
3)Dray learns this (either from his agent, Poole talking smack, or someone else).
4)Dray gets angry.
5)Dray punches Poole.
6)Poole signs extension (which may have been increased a bit after the punch, which, if so, makes another example of Dray losing his cool and costing himself and/or the team).
This is accurate according to all the reports over the summer and the Warriors stated priority order at the time. Don’t waste time on people trying to create busy work saying to cite sources when they can just as easily go back and do that themselves. It’s just low key trolling by minds that are already made up.
The punch happened on October 5. So you think all the negotiations for Poole's contract extension happened during the interval from the day after the punch (October 6) and the day Poole signed, October 16? So, in your story the team had no plans to extend Poole, had not engaged Poole's agent, and thus there's no way Dray would have any inkling that Poole is about to get a commitment from the team that in the zero-sum world of the capped out Dubs would make a Dray contract extension tough, but then the punch happened and they immediately entered negotiations with Poole for a lucrative multi-year extension? If that's how it happened, the Dubs are the stupidest team in the league. They should've immediately started looking around for a trade to get something for Poole.
I don't think the Dubs under Bob Myers were the stupidest team in the league. Nor do I think Dray sucker punches a teammate over mere verbal sparring. So I do not believe it makes any sense to claim that Poole's looming extension played no role in Dray's actions.
I'm just pointing out that if a transaction that has millions of examples every year takes 21 days to close (buying a house), it probably takes more than 11 days to negotiate a multi-year $120Million contract extension with an NBA player. If your assertion that what we know is the ONLY information we can use to discuss what happened, then you are committing to a likely impossible timeline. Just sayin'.
Plus, Draymond along with Iguodala have been very outspoken about not talking about other players money. To say Draymond punched him because he was upset about his contract is silly, or like you said just false.
And Draymond always matches his words about principles with his actions. /s
Yeah, I get it. But I am pretty sure, none of us are perfect. Watching his podcast with Kerr, he comes off to me as pretty self aware. He understands he has had a lot of issues- of his own making. But he seems to at least acknowledge it. To me that means something.
It does mean something. What it doesn't mean, though, is that because Dray said he doesn't discuss other players contract's he doesn't have feelings about what he HEARS about other player's contracts.
But this is all pure guesswork, speculation based on assumptions, not on anything solid. We won't know what Draymond was feeling, and we probably will never know whether Poole's contract had anything to do with the Punch.
What new tinkering has Substack done now? When I edit a message and save it, it doesn't show the updated message. I have to refresh the page. Grrr!
It's been that way for a while for me, now. At least the refresh takes you to the right spot on the page, so it's not as annoying as it could be.
For me too. It's annoying enough.
"...Kerr coddles Dray.."
"...How dare Kerr say about our bench lacking winning attitude.... "
I have heard these said on 95.7, podcasts and here.Alas, Steph is so beloved by us all that we forget about him in these discussions.
On the first one - Does anyone here think that when it comes to such matters as punishment, etc, he is sitting on the sideline letting Kerr and Bob do whatever the F they want. Curry played a central role in working through that crisis. Yet no one ever says Steph enables Dray. People talk about the kind of leverage Dray wields. No - it is not Dray. It is Steph who wields that leverage (and rightly so).
On the second one - Steph said something similar but worse in some ways before SAC G7 -"If you don't want to win, don't get on the bus". Essence is the same as what Kerr is saying. No one is talking about that incident when talking about what Kerr said on this podcast and instead throwing crap at Kerr (he does deserve some crap at times for sure).
I say all this to say that these guys are a unit - (Bob), Kert, Steph, Dray, Klay who collaborate, at times stupiditly no doubt.
One more thing - guess who were the first people to say that youngsters should get less time last season?
Uh, I've repeatedly said Curry is part of the problem. On this very thread I've said that. Its all four of 'em--Curry, Klay, Kerr, & Dray. The Formerly Fab Four.
Curry, a low key guy with a stellar history of team play, is the problem because he felt the need to give a speech to try to rally the troops from the disease of selfishness?
Jist a crazy idea here: what if Kerr, GP2, Curry and the rest are all actually right and the young players who weren’t very good this year were actually selfish pricks this year?
Up to a point, its appropriate for young guys to be selfish pricks. They have a very short window to prove they belong in the league. The old guys are supposed to understand that and help them, not circle the wagons against the young.
Actually, no, it is not appropriate at all for them to be selfish pricks. It's appropriate to be confident. It's appropriate to work their asses off, show up early, ask questions, respect the OGs, and learn. It's not appropriate to be selfish because that's a loser mentality in a team sport, and they haven't proven themselves yet, so it's appropriate to be humble. (This is something I love about Moody, who gets it.) It's never appropriate to be pricks.
I didn't say everyone says that way or thinks that way. But every where I look, people are pissed at Kerr or Dray or both.
What made me respond was that you wrote this: "Alas, Steph is so beloved by us all that we forget about him in these discussions."
I love Steph. But I do not forget him in these discussions. Look back over my posting, I've repeatedly called him out. And Klay, too. And Dray. And Kerr. I've called them out singly and as a group. They have the chance to do something really special--originate a multi-generational dynasty. But they are so full of ego, pride, and self-centeredness that instead of seizing the opportunity the universe gave them with 3 lottery picks (unprecedented for a team in the midst of a dynastic run), they're punching, ball-hogging, throwing mouthpieces, and benching everyone under 25. Its an embarrassing display.
At the risk of oversimplifying I'm going to say that the problem was: Poole and Klay missed a ton of shots.
And Wiggins. And kinda Steph too. Dubs kinda just couldn’t hit 3s all postseason.
Very aptly summarized, Eric. You could also add -championship leads to clash on the financial side. Not everyone is gonna get the bag.
Qn for the masses - any players with high pedigree (HS rankings) with injuries that have fallen into our range? If so, Im going to down tools and pick that guy. The Kevon Looney/PBJ selection method.
The first guys who come to mind who wrestled with injuries are Brice Sensabaugh, Jett Howard and Dereck Lively. Lively looks like he’s drifting out of our range.
One of the most informative exercises is to reflect back on one's biases and mistakes. Looking at last year's version of void's Big Board ( https://dnhq.draft-vote.xyz/2022 ), why were Dalen Terry and Jake LaRavia ranked high (4 and 5, respectively), while actual impact players like Walker Kessler and Andrew Nembhard dropped to lower half of the board (11 and 18)?
Speaking for myself, I think I overrated athleticism and underrated experience and skills, which is why I put Terry at 3 and Kessler at 15.
Who are we overlooking this year?
I think many were going for high upside, too, looking for home runs. But really we should be very happy with doubles.
Are GSW and TOR the two teams in the league with the most talent that under performed this year? I know GSW got to the 2nd round, but 30 road losses is nothing to brag about. I just look at both rosters and see loads of players I like, but both groups couldn't make music together. As mentioned by another, dealing with Ujira with a new GM sounds perilous, a tad risky with him knowing the Dubs are selling out for the all in on Curry timeline. But it seems like there could be a way for a trade that benefits both teams by trading equal amounts talent, but changing personalities.
Dubs should go on a trading mission to get Anunoby.
I like Anunoby but the Raptors will want a good return for him, and we already have Wiggs playing the same wing position, with JK coming up to play the 4. What are you trading to get him?
Poole, who many fans want to trade. There should be a deal there if the Dubs are actually thinking about this.
OG is making about 18.6M. JP will make almost $27.5M. The salaries aren't close enough, so you have to sweeten the pot. And are you bringing OG or Wiggs off the bench? Trading JK and starting Wiggs at the 4?
This has nothing to do with Wiggs or trading JK. Poole is a major ball handler on most teams and a big time scorer. Raptors have to sweeten the pot but there are possibilities for us there. Throw in Precious, OPJ, or. T. Young. If needs be, we could throw in Rolllins. Or, Poole for Poetl, Precious & Porter. The whole shebang rests on what the Dubs decide about Poole.
The only reason I think it has to do with Wiggs and JK is OG and Wiggs will both expect to start. JK needs more minutes. So we do have to consider that. Now, Poetl does address a need and still leaves Wiggs in the starting lineup and minutes for JK. OPJ... depends on his health, which is almost always precarious, although Dr Celebrini did keep him going with duct tape, SuperGlue, and rubber bands in '21-'22.
You're talking regular season, right? Because the Bucks have something to say about underperforming in the playoffs.
Does a sign & trade involving a coach hard cap the receiving team?
In the immortal words of John Zoidberg: "I didn't hear a No."
What's Toronto doing without a coach still? This is starting to intrigue me a bit. Not like they are waiting for Spoelstra or Malone. Are they waiting for a new GM at GSW to be crowned?
Waiting for JJ to finish his finals coverage
Waiting for the electrician or someone like him.
[EDIT: Even more recent youtube mock draft with multiple CBS analysts has Warriors taking Lively!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFvnpU0M6bY]
New CBS mock draft (Parrish):
- Miller at 2, Scoot to Portland (but still may trade for a non-rookie)
- Thompson twins at 5 & 6
- Jett Howard to Raptors at 13
- Lively to ATL at 15
- Warriors take Bufkin over Coulibaly (20), Jaquez (21), Murray (23), Rupert (26)
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2023-nba-mock-draft-victor-wembanyama-goes-no-1-to-spurs-hornets-take-brandon-miller-at-no-2/
I find the CBS guys, Parrish and especially Boone, to be pretty far away from what happens in the draft. That makes them bad for projection. They could in theory still be interesting and insightful, but I also don’t find that to be true usually.
Having said that, I could easily see them taking Bufkin over all four of those players. Bufkin is a Poole-type and GSW sorely lacks off the dribble creation.
If they project Lively to the Warriors, they must be extremely accurate, though, because I want Lively on the Warriors. Seriously, though, which sites seem to have been at least somewhat accurate over the years (although this year's picks seem be especially hard to predict)?
I have found Sam Vecenie of The Athletic to be the most in tune with what ends up happening in the draft. Again, this does not make him the most insightful scout, it just makes him the most in line with what teams are generally thinking…
Vecenie (team needs/upside) + Kristen Peak (skills set/upside) = best prediction
How has the Ringer done historically? KOC's updated mock draft had the Dubs taking Colby Jones.
I don’t think any draft analyst can be expected to nail the exact pick outside of say the Top 5 (and even that is chaotic). I think Vecenie’s general order is the closest overall. I did an actual analysis of this at one point computing the average error of the mock drafts… But there was a LOT of luck to it and the Ringer did well one year and badly another year…
I just can't help but think of Killian Hayes when I hear KOC.
Yeah, that makes sense.
He’s just on DNHQ and trying to cut against the grain…
These are businessmen first and foremost. People forget Steph’s “Someone with Size” response when asked who the team was looking to draft prior to the 2020 draft. There is a core involving Kerr, Steph, Dray, and Klay and they’re all trying to maximize that core and if it means those 3 plus Wiggins, Looney and a whole bunch of complementary players until the wheels fall off so be it.
Lebron does the same thing except once you've exceeded your usefulness, he’ll look to trade you until the roster and subsequent picks have been absolutely scorched and devoid of any future then he’ll move on (like he’s potentially getting ready to do in a year or two when Bronny enters the league).
I don't care what the Saudis do. And American business is generally corrupt. Why should golf be different. And I guess I am more irritated by American racism on an daily basis than the murderous oil pigs running Saudi Arabia. I think as an American citizen I can do something about this society. Maybe. After 69 years I wonder. But holding golf to a higher standard strikes me as disingenuous. And futile. No. I don't play or watch golf.
ooh ooh let me try: who cares about racism when there's global warming?
Climate change is exacerbating racial and socioeconomic inequality. If one doesn't care about racism and socioeconomic inequality, one's care about climate change will end up foisting the cost of dealing with climate change and/or the cost of NOT dealing with climate change on nonwhites and the poor (including poor whites).
This is true, but my comment was supposed to be rhetorical sarcasm
I know. But you also provided an opportunity to inform anyone who doesn't yet see the issues are intertwined. So, laughs, plus a message. Win, win!
American business is generally racist, why should sports be any different?
I don't watch golf either, but it's a pretty scary precedent, especially when you look at how oil money has messed with global soccer. Inevitably they will turn their wallets towards the NBA...
Also, people can care about more than one thing.
American Foreign Policy definitely has an impact on Saudi's behavior. and you should care what the Saudi's do lol
Families of the victims of 9/11 sure do care.
I "care" about what the Saudis do (and the US, plus hella other countries I don't feel like arguing about on a basketball website). The issue with that is I don't actually think most Americans can influence foreign policy, either individually or collectively. It's one of the places in US governance that's not democratic in the slightest.
At the same time unfortunately I don’t think most Americans are anywhere near competent enough to make foreign policy democratic. Can’t tell the difference between international cities and countries…
I think that arises because of our undemocratic governing structure, not a justification for it. Why might some random US citizen spend time learning about far off places and what their government is doing to them if it has zero bearing on their day to day and they don't have any means of changing what's happening?
If it's only to satiate curiosity, why is that any better than what we do with basketball? US folks should know about the wider world, but I get why it's not as pressing for most as the many other issues they face right now.
Oh yea for sure it’s not a justification.
Part of the problem is that there a bazillion things that we *do* have to worry about. And it is literally impossible for all of us to become experts at everything. Even in the best case scenario where we all recognized our responsibilities to learn about economy, international relations, etc, we would necessarily still have to depend on the expertise of specialists. I don’t think the undemocratic nature comes from the form of government, but has deeper roots in our limitations as individuals in a very very large society that has too many decisions for any individual to handle.
Ie even in a Democratic extreme where every single government decision, including foreign relations, is put up to a vote, I still doubt we would have the capacity to make coherent policy.
You know, the US is an EXTREMELY LARGE COUNTRY. France is the size of Texas. You can drive 3000 miles and still be in the US, but if you drive 3000 miles from the coast of France you'll cross 10 to 12 countries and end up in Asia. I don't think this excuses anything, but it does put it in perspective. If we see the USA as that large, knowing about a city in another state is like Europeans knowing about a city in a neighboring country. And, as the USA is a nuclear-armed belligerent superpower, they have more reason (fear) to know about us than most Americans have a reason to know about them. Again, not excusing, just observing.
Limited bandwidth laughing!!!