>> The pick was near universally regarded as a failure and the more whiny fans took it as a fireable offense by Bob Myers.
Man, there's one thing I don't miss: Warriors "fans" whining that "We miss Jerry West." Jerry gets credit for ONE GUY - Klay Thompson. Drafting and not trading him. Everything else was, as far as we know, a committee effort at most. Bob Myers still doesn't have the recognition he deserves.
And then you hit on another one of my hot buttons: Memphis whining that Jordan Poole should be suspended for Ja getting hurt. Not only was it an absurd charge, but they were arguing just days earlier that Draymond's crime was worse than Brooks', but as soon as it becomes a perceived opportunity to steal an advantage, they no longer care about that and are on JP's case. Buncha losers.
I was never ready to give up on Poole -- probably just my own eternal optimism and rose-colored glasses than any particular wisdom though. I had no idea who he was when he was drafted, but once I saw him play, I basically thought -- here is a guy as a 20 year old rookie who is bringing the same confidence that 32 year old Swaggy P brought. And when Kerr would talk about how he was the hardest worker (on a team that includes Steph Curry), it was hard to see any downside. Those are qualities I'm not going to give up on too easily. I certainly didn't expect him to have the year he had this year, but even if he only amounted to Swaggy P that still seemed like a decent pick worth keeping around (though to be fair, maybe I appreciated Nick Young more than most / more than I should have). I was legitimately baffled whenever there was discussion over whether it was worth it to opt in to additional 3rd and 4th years of his rookie contract. The more I think about it, the more I'm hoping the Warriors will opt to keep him at all costs -- if for nothing else because I appreciate the swagginess, and to continue the trend in this era of the dubs retaining their draft successes. I hope Poole does even better this year than last, and makes it an easy decision to match any offer.
I suppose since I'm representing the Hashemite Kingdom, I should post something.
Like many of us here, I was not thrilled with the draft choice - proving again I'm not as smart as BobGod.
I've told the story of going to watch the Warriors in 2019 (our first game at Chase), watching Poole throw up brick after brick after brick, and thought "this guy's never going to amount to anything."
I rolled my eyes when he went down to G-League in the 2020-2021 season and thought it was the end of us and Jordan.
I was surprised when he finished off 2021 the way he did.
I was astonished when the shots started going in in preseason last year. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Then I read a story about Poole's upbringing and his experiences at La Lumiere High and U of M that helped me better understand his team-first, hard working, high IQ mindset, and I established myself here in the Kingdom.
I was thrilled by his performance in the playoffs. Just ballsy. I love it that he looks up to and learns from Steph and Klay and his other teammates. (But especially Steph.)
It's hard for me to project what Jordan might turn into because his rise has been so unexpected. I'm just thrilled to be able to sit back and watch it all happen before my eyes. With so many great stories on the Warriors last season - Klay's return, the stellar play of GP II, Steph's downs and ups, the general lack of respect - the rise of Jordan Poole was my favorite story of all of them.
What led FO to Poole? I think a big factor was his confidence. Both Patrick McCaw and Jacob Evens were very hesitant to shoot. A coach would rather a player shoot and miss the open shot than not take it at all. I think there was a little built up frustration with Staff/FO and Poole was unconscious. Even if he flamed out of the league, it wouldn't have been for not taking his shots. After weighing his skills against others in the draft, I believe it was Poole's unbridled self-confidence that tipped the scales on draft day.
Poole's big life decision is on the horizon. He can go for a big payday and spread his wings, be a starter and potential leader of his own team or just end up being the next Harrison Barnes, a great player who no one will ever talk about except when referencing his first years with the Warriors. On the other hand, if he can live with being the likely 6th Man of the Year Award winner for the next 4 years, if he is willing to back up the best back court duo the NBA has ever seen a little while longer, he will be the heir to the throne of Curry. And he is the only one who could follow Curry and be wholly embraced by Dub Nation, because he is one of our own. And he will get paid.
This won't be like Andre coming off the bench. This will be an epic team-first personal sacrifice given the length of time for the personal payoff. It would be a bold move and one that would engender even greater devotion from Dub Nation.
Starting point guard for the Orlando Magic? Or Heir to the Throne of a Dynasty Franchise? And if he ever wins a Chip once the core is gone, he will be a legend. Or he can plan his vacations to Disney World every May.
Poole is so clearly a winner, a thrill to watch, and brings so many more of the traits that fans love to an already crowded table of virtues - hard work, team plus ethos, generosity on and off the court, and crazy unrestrained crazy celebration faces.
Poole has spoiled us with his hard work and commitment to improvement. So now I expect more. I’d like to see him attack with a little more control, improve his defense (obvious) and grow his already slick passing skills. And get bigger and stronger. Bonus points for growing another inch in height and two in reach!
I’m also how curious how the FO decided to draft Poole at 28. Either they have some amazing super top secret analytics or it was some leader’s amazing gut call. If the former, we’ll never hear about it. But we might get a scoop one day on what the discussion was like that led to this decision.
The comparison to a player like Mitchell is pretty hard. Mitchell is more mature, a 3 time all star, and a solid first scoring option. But he’s also a poor sport and his pathetic petty squabbles with his starting center, including refusing to pass to him when he was obviously open under the basket, has destroyed my respect for him. I won’t be shocked if Mitchell has a long, solid career but I’d still rather keep Poole.
Tying another Poole-Wiggins discussion here to Jason Timpf’s video. (I’m assuming everyone has watched it now since I’m pretty sure there will be questions from it on Dilly’s mid-term.)
Timpf called Steph the “greatest offensive engine in the game”, rivaled only by prime Lebron in this era. While he’s not as great an individual scorer as someone like Durant, his overall presence creates more efficient scoring than anyone else in the league through his own scoring, gravity, off all movement and ability to create favorable situations for the rest of the team. I love this definition and think it explains what Poole means to the team. He’s the ONLY offensive engine the Warriors have when Steph isn’t on the floor and arguably the only one they’ve had during Steph’s career.
To me, this sums up why Poole is the guy to keep if it comes down to choosing.
In addition to everything else, Poole's success validates:
1. The prescience of new ownership immediately buying a D-League affiliate and placing it in the greater Bay Area. To have a place to play significant minutes against quality opposition yet not so good that all confidence is shot is absolutely crucial. Its proximity to the big club matters a great deal, too, allowing for easy back and forth. (This item sponsored by your local Santa Cruz resident)
2. The value of hard work, which in itself is a crucial element in drafting -- will a young player humble himself to go back and work on his craft, or sulk and flame out?
3. The value of fairly random good fortune. This could have gone the other way. Just because he succeeded does not mean he was fated to do so. There's a tautology to watching a team win and assuming they were destined to; when in fact the whole thing hangs on a ... pinky, sometimes.
Dear Kuminga, Wiseman, Moody, Baldwin, Rollins: take notes.
As a teacher I had once used to say to let you know something would be on the test...
"Good thing to remember."
Specifically, this EP statement:
If we learn nothing else from this series, it’s that players with talent, good work ethic, good coaching and a good role can dramatically change their careers. We cannot rush to judgment on the wisdom of picking them.
One Jordan Poole can make up for a lot of draft "mistakes". The ironic thing is that most of the other picks the Warriors made were regarded as justifiable at the time, and Poole was the mistake.
There are surprises, pleasant surprises, and then there is Jordan Poole.
I honestly expect him to make the West All-Star team in the next year or two. He just needs to clean up the defense, so he can stay on the floor at the end of games. And, Sleepy got it right below. He's turning into a shot creator for others.
Would you rather have Poole or Donovan Mitchell (the guy the Knicks desperately want)? I think it's Poole hands-down. Poole is going to keep getting better for several more years ... Mitchell, not so much.
>> The pick was near universally regarded as a failure and the more whiny fans took it as a fireable offense by Bob Myers.
Man, there's one thing I don't miss: Warriors "fans" whining that "We miss Jerry West." Jerry gets credit for ONE GUY - Klay Thompson. Drafting and not trading him. Everything else was, as far as we know, a committee effort at most. Bob Myers still doesn't have the recognition he deserves.
And then you hit on another one of my hot buttons: Memphis whining that Jordan Poole should be suspended for Ja getting hurt. Not only was it an absurd charge, but they were arguing just days earlier that Draymond's crime was worse than Brooks', but as soon as it becomes a perceived opportunity to steal an advantage, they no longer care about that and are on JP's case. Buncha losers.
Conversations no one could have anticipated during the 2019-2020 season:
If you unfortunately can't keep both, is Jordan Poole or Andrew Wiggins more valuable to your team on a near-max contact?
I was never ready to give up on Poole -- probably just my own eternal optimism and rose-colored glasses than any particular wisdom though. I had no idea who he was when he was drafted, but once I saw him play, I basically thought -- here is a guy as a 20 year old rookie who is bringing the same confidence that 32 year old Swaggy P brought. And when Kerr would talk about how he was the hardest worker (on a team that includes Steph Curry), it was hard to see any downside. Those are qualities I'm not going to give up on too easily. I certainly didn't expect him to have the year he had this year, but even if he only amounted to Swaggy P that still seemed like a decent pick worth keeping around (though to be fair, maybe I appreciated Nick Young more than most / more than I should have). I was legitimately baffled whenever there was discussion over whether it was worth it to opt in to additional 3rd and 4th years of his rookie contract. The more I think about it, the more I'm hoping the Warriors will opt to keep him at all costs -- if for nothing else because I appreciate the swagginess, and to continue the trend in this era of the dubs retaining their draft successes. I hope Poole does even better this year than last, and makes it an easy decision to match any offer.
I suppose since I'm representing the Hashemite Kingdom, I should post something.
Like many of us here, I was not thrilled with the draft choice - proving again I'm not as smart as BobGod.
I've told the story of going to watch the Warriors in 2019 (our first game at Chase), watching Poole throw up brick after brick after brick, and thought "this guy's never going to amount to anything."
I rolled my eyes when he went down to G-League in the 2020-2021 season and thought it was the end of us and Jordan.
I was surprised when he finished off 2021 the way he did.
I was astonished when the shots started going in in preseason last year. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Then I read a story about Poole's upbringing and his experiences at La Lumiere High and U of M that helped me better understand his team-first, hard working, high IQ mindset, and I established myself here in the Kingdom.
I was thrilled by his performance in the playoffs. Just ballsy. I love it that he looks up to and learns from Steph and Klay and his other teammates. (But especially Steph.)
It's hard for me to project what Jordan might turn into because his rise has been so unexpected. I'm just thrilled to be able to sit back and watch it all happen before my eyes. With so many great stories on the Warriors last season - Klay's return, the stellar play of GP II, Steph's downs and ups, the general lack of respect - the rise of Jordan Poole was my favorite story of all of them.
What led FO to Poole? I think a big factor was his confidence. Both Patrick McCaw and Jacob Evens were very hesitant to shoot. A coach would rather a player shoot and miss the open shot than not take it at all. I think there was a little built up frustration with Staff/FO and Poole was unconscious. Even if he flamed out of the league, it wouldn't have been for not taking his shots. After weighing his skills against others in the draft, I believe it was Poole's unbridled self-confidence that tipped the scales on draft day.
Poole's big life decision is on the horizon. He can go for a big payday and spread his wings, be a starter and potential leader of his own team or just end up being the next Harrison Barnes, a great player who no one will ever talk about except when referencing his first years with the Warriors. On the other hand, if he can live with being the likely 6th Man of the Year Award winner for the next 4 years, if he is willing to back up the best back court duo the NBA has ever seen a little while longer, he will be the heir to the throne of Curry. And he is the only one who could follow Curry and be wholly embraced by Dub Nation, because he is one of our own. And he will get paid.
This won't be like Andre coming off the bench. This will be an epic team-first personal sacrifice given the length of time for the personal payoff. It would be a bold move and one that would engender even greater devotion from Dub Nation.
Starting point guard for the Orlando Magic? Or Heir to the Throne of a Dynasty Franchise? And if he ever wins a Chip once the core is gone, he will be a legend. Or he can plan his vacations to Disney World every May.
Poole is so clearly a winner, a thrill to watch, and brings so many more of the traits that fans love to an already crowded table of virtues - hard work, team plus ethos, generosity on and off the court, and crazy unrestrained crazy celebration faces.
Poole has spoiled us with his hard work and commitment to improvement. So now I expect more. I’d like to see him attack with a little more control, improve his defense (obvious) and grow his already slick passing skills. And get bigger and stronger. Bonus points for growing another inch in height and two in reach!
I’m also how curious how the FO decided to draft Poole at 28. Either they have some amazing super top secret analytics or it was some leader’s amazing gut call. If the former, we’ll never hear about it. But we might get a scoop one day on what the discussion was like that led to this decision.
The comparison to a player like Mitchell is pretty hard. Mitchell is more mature, a 3 time all star, and a solid first scoring option. But he’s also a poor sport and his pathetic petty squabbles with his starting center, including refusing to pass to him when he was obviously open under the basket, has destroyed my respect for him. I won’t be shocked if Mitchell has a long, solid career but I’d still rather keep Poole.
Fun stat o' the day. Last ten seasons (2012-13 to 2021-22):
Bullshit playoff wins in the bubble: Lakers 16, Warriors 0
Legit playoff wins not in the bubble: Warriors 102, Lakers 2
Tying another Poole-Wiggins discussion here to Jason Timpf’s video. (I’m assuming everyone has watched it now since I’m pretty sure there will be questions from it on Dilly’s mid-term.)
Timpf called Steph the “greatest offensive engine in the game”, rivaled only by prime Lebron in this era. While he’s not as great an individual scorer as someone like Durant, his overall presence creates more efficient scoring than anyone else in the league through his own scoring, gravity, off all movement and ability to create favorable situations for the rest of the team. I love this definition and think it explains what Poole means to the team. He’s the ONLY offensive engine the Warriors have when Steph isn’t on the floor and arguably the only one they’ve had during Steph’s career.
To me, this sums up why Poole is the guy to keep if it comes down to choosing.
In addition to everything else, Poole's success validates:
1. The prescience of new ownership immediately buying a D-League affiliate and placing it in the greater Bay Area. To have a place to play significant minutes against quality opposition yet not so good that all confidence is shot is absolutely crucial. Its proximity to the big club matters a great deal, too, allowing for easy back and forth. (This item sponsored by your local Santa Cruz resident)
2. The value of hard work, which in itself is a crucial element in drafting -- will a young player humble himself to go back and work on his craft, or sulk and flame out?
3. The value of fairly random good fortune. This could have gone the other way. Just because he succeeded does not mean he was fated to do so. There's a tautology to watching a team win and assuming they were destined to; when in fact the whole thing hangs on a ... pinky, sometimes.
Dear Kuminga, Wiseman, Moody, Baldwin, Rollins: take notes.
The best draft story in recent memory. What a turnaround!
As a teacher I had once used to say to let you know something would be on the test...
"Good thing to remember."
Specifically, this EP statement:
If we learn nothing else from this series, it’s that players with talent, good work ethic, good coaching and a good role can dramatically change their careers. We cannot rush to judgment on the wisdom of picking them.
I dunno... I'm pretty sure it was an awful pick. This guy thinks so, at least.
https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/fans-resurface-jordan-poole-draft-take-17120146.php
Most recent open thread: https://dubnationhq.com/p/2022-23-nba-schedule-announced-at/comments
One Jordan Poole can make up for a lot of draft "mistakes". The ironic thing is that most of the other picks the Warriors made were regarded as justifiable at the time, and Poole was the mistake.
There are surprises, pleasant surprises, and then there is Jordan Poole.
I honestly expect him to make the West All-Star team in the next year or two. He just needs to clean up the defense, so he can stay on the floor at the end of games. And, Sleepy got it right below. He's turning into a shot creator for others.
Would you rather have Poole or Donovan Mitchell (the guy the Knicks desperately want)? I think it's Poole hands-down. Poole is going to keep getting better for several more years ... Mitchell, not so much.
> On the championship Warriors team, he was the only player besides Steph Curry who could manufacture shots off the dribble.
*Cough* Wiggins *Cough*