Good victory, good defense, awesome Fontecchio yesterday evening for Italy against Estonia. Pozzecco, first tournament match as head coach, seems an enthusiastic motivator and some technical choices were good. Nico 12 pts, 4 ast, some confusion. The team defends really good, but without Gallo our chances are slim. Plus, tonight, there’s Greece with a PF I heard about somewhere.
TBF, Davion does a good GP2 impression and GP2 was a lot more critical to the previous ‘chip than JFK. And those pundits had no way of knowing that Bob could find GP2 on the scrap heap.
TOS did have D Mitchell to the Dubs at 7. Safe pick for a contending team. My view then: I don't know who the Dubs should pick, but I know who they shouldn't pick: D Mitchell.
But sure … other than the fact that Payton was fantastic last year and Mitchell was terrible, and the fact that they played totally different positions … Davion “does a good GP2 impression.” ;-P
To me, GP2 did a pretty good impression of JaVale McGee (with elite perimeter D), while Mitchell did a pretty good impression of Jonny Flynn.
Just trying to get banned here - but have you seen Mitchell play in person? You can't trust those huge differences in efficiency. Just remember how Mitchell carried the ... wait, we're talking about Davion Mitchell and the Kings? Carry on.
I will say that Davion passes the eye test (in the half-dozen or so games of his I watched last year) much better than he passes the stats test. But man, I’d be crushed if we had taken him over Kuminga, Wagner, Moody, et al.
I didn’t want him at #14, either. Someone looking for receipts from DM’s supporters?. A lot of that was outside the DNHQ bubble but I think there were some here.
Credit Sleepy for seemingly responding to each one with “old, short, short-armed questionable shooter” speech. 😁
There were not one but four (edit: five) major red flags for me with Davion:
1. Old
2. Short and stubby-armed
3. Poor shooting peripherals
4. No ability to get himself to the FT line
5. Atrocious rebounding
If you could have eliminated just two of those things (pretty much any two!) I'd have considered him a less absurd pick at #7. He is an uber high character guy and seemingly great dude who plays great D (for a little guy).
I fell in love with Scottie Barnes early in the draft, when it actually seemed like we had a shot at him. And I had Josh Giddy right behind him. After them, I was about even on Wagner & Moody. The closer we got to the draft, the higher Scottie shot up the boards and rightfully so. I saw him as the heir to Draymond, a perfect fit. There goes OKC, and Presti was giddy for Giddy. At this point, I have Wagner and Mu-moe-moo-moo-Moody on my board, and it never occurred to me that JFK would be on the board. I hadn't watched a minute of Kuminga pre-draft because I didn't think we would even see him. So I had to scramble post-draft to get an idea of who he was.
Ahhh, I see the potential. I see the holes. But the G-League is the G League and I postponed any judgement until I saw him in the big leagues. And let's remind ourselves that his first year in the NBA should have been his first year in college.
DAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
If the Warriors ranked 26th in overall athleticism in the league (is that too high?), JFK single-handedly pushed them up to 15. I am having trouble coming up with comparisons to his combination of power & speed. Westbrook? Whoever it is, it is a one-handed list that he is on.
JFK is a walking time out. Kerr: "JK, we need a time out." JK: "Okay coach." Next play, drive and a foul, JK to the line, y'all get what we call a free-throw-time-out. If he can shoot 80% at the free throw line, he will average anywhere from 7-9 points a game on free throws alone. Even at 75%, he becomes another team's nightmare. And this is something the Warriors Desperately Seeking Susan needs.
The tools are there. He is surrounded by the best basketball minds in the business. He is immersed in the best bball culture since Duncan-Parker-Ginobili. The sky is the limit with this kid.
What we need to do as DubNation, is visualize what JK needs to do if he wants to be JFK (yes, you heard it here first, Jonathon "Freakin" Kuminga). JK will be a really really good NBA player. But if he wants to ascend into the level currently occupied by the Core, he has to let go of that which he loves most. The basketball.
We all know JK loves to break rims. It's his greatest love. When the ball is in his hands, he can turn into Smeagol (or Gollam), holding his basketball like the precious ring that controlled them all. He calls for it, he cradles it, he caresses it and calls it his "Precious." But if this guy can embrace the Warriors Way, he will become unstoppable. In the Warriors World, the player without the ball is more dangerous. If JK learns this, the Warriors will be unstoppable. The second the ball leaves his hands, en route to another player, is the second that the Red Sea parts and a hole to the rim is created.
The Warriors are the 7-Up of basketball. They are the Un-Cola. The Un-NBA. The Un-Basketball. "Give and ye shall receive" is the Word. Give up the ball and you will get it back!!!!!!!!!
Free throws. Open set 3s. And Give & Gos. I am not going to be worried about defense. That takes longer, we all know once a player has settled into a reliable offensive game his D can improve.
If JK can do this, if he can elevate his handle to JFK, then ho-be-Jesus, we are going to be a nightmare. Scottie Barnes and Giddy were picked before him, so if his only competition was Wagner, Moody, and Sengun, I think Bob had another par for the course awesome Bob Meyers draft.
I might not have been the first to call him JFK, but i will continue until TNT or teammates or whoever call him that on the air and it sticks (they will just say 'oh its because he takes off like an airplane flight, but we all will know)
Oh Snap! I may have coined it first, but that analogy is just as good if not better. The only problem is all the flights that are delayed in the Summer, aka what is known as a 'Charge' in the NBA.
Yeah, I really wanted Scottie but as we got closer to draft it felt like he would be gone by 7.
I also didn't think JK would be there either, TBF.
I think my rankings for #7 were: Wagner, Moody, Giddey. I actually thought there would be a chance we could get Giddey at 14, lol me, but hey, we ended up getting Moody at 14 so whatever.
I watched that Tape Review with Schmitz that Scottie did and fell in love with his intangibles just hearing him talk about himself, his game and the way he studies the game.
He seems like such a great kid, too! He’d be like Draymond without all the bullshit.
What I think Jonathon Kuminga needs to do... is first and foremost play more games.
Along with that- focus on defense, upping his personal defensive intensity, and especially learning to play within the team's defense schemes.
He has the physical skills and talents to settle "into a reliable offensive game" right now.
That is not in question.
Team first defense is what has gotten the Warriors to the championship level. Then the offensive abilities take over.
Yes, creating space and giving up the ball is an important part of "Warriors' World" when the team has skilled players who are shooters, and finishers at the rim .
But I think it starts with the team defense.
In my opinion that sometimes is the most important thing for all young players to learn.
I'll go with "fair analysis" as well. The Warriors drafted Kuminga to be a star player in the *next* Warriors dynasty, not the current one. All they really need to extend the current dynastic reign was for Klay Thompson to be mostly healthy. and for Wiggins to play like an all-star.
Well, that and the emergence of splash little brother Jordan Poole to smooth out the ride and ironman Kevon Looney to be a fixture as center. GPII, OPJ, and even Bjelica made significant contributions as well. Helps not to sign the 2022 equivalent of Wannamaker and Oubre (no insult intended -- those guys are NBA players but just not a good fit for the Ws).
Reading all the comments about Kuminga and his potential for development has me wondering about the ongoing training these guys get (and I guess this is relevant for Wiseman, Moody and the latest batch of recruits). Yes, we all hope and expect the guys to put energy into developing skills in the off-season, no matter how short it is. But with the season running 9+ months long (ideally!) it seems like the young guys should be working on their game all year round. Especially if they are getting limited playing time so the physical demands are not extreme.
The W's have how many coaches? 9? 17? 44? If you have enough coaches I'd expect every single young player (heck, why not all of them) to have 12 month development plans detailed out, as well as coaching staff on hand to make sure that the guys are practicing the right things. When we have more coaches than players (ok, maybe we actually don't have that many) each player should be able to have daily one on one coaching time. At least that's what I'd do if I was running an insanely wealthy team and I cared about investing in/developing all my players.
I think from a talent perspective, I'm all in for the pick of Kuminga at #7. Even if he doesn't turn out, you take your shot at the ring, right?
That said, I could imagine other picks in that spot whose ceiling is clearly not as high but who might be willing to fit in with the core. I get the feeling that Kuminga isn't all that excited about that, and given that the core could go 2-3 more years, that's looking like it could be a problem. If so, that's too bad. I would really like to see him star with the Warriors. But the runway may be too long for his taste.
The case of Jordan Poole should be instructive. He has worked hard on his game and fit in where he could, and now, they may start to form the team around him. He's become that good and that important. I wish Kuminga would do the same. He's talented enough to force them to reconfigure -- and that would be better than sulking or seething.
" I get the feeling that Kuminga isn't all that excited about that" Maybe he needs a talk with Mr Natural, aka Andre Igoudala, to gain some perspective. 😊
I think in this coming season JK can already be impactful as an offensive finisher; cuts, short rolls, transition attacks. Biggest question is can he hit spot up 3s enough to play the 4 next to the likes of Dray/Loon/Wise. Otherwise, dunno how much he can play next to another non-shooter.
I already expect the defense to improve with experience.
For longer term and star potential, the handle needs to improve enough where he can be a real playmaker with the ball. If he can run some competent PnR, he'll be a terror with how he can draw fouls.
Then of course general improvement with the shooting, FT and 3pt.
Curious to see what Kuminga has added to his game this off-season. The guys who are going to be great tend to make big leaps on their own time in the first few years. He had exciting flashes as a rookie. Let’s find out if he’s going to be great or just talented. So far Wagner and Moody seem like they would have been perfect for this team, and the Warriors seeming to have gone that direction with this year’s draft looks like a bit of a nod in that direction too.
For both Moody and Kuminga I am curious how much they can really add to their game in such a short offseason. I remember Draymond once explaining how he never got a chance to add to his games in those short offseasons that resulted from 5 straight Finals appearances because he was mostly focused on recovery from such a long season and prepping to be able to physically get through the following season which he expected to be another deep run. Then again Draymond wasn't 19 or 20 years old during those runs. Still, how much can you really add in like 2 months? I think it's possible that championship experience is invaluable for getting rookies to focus on the right things, but a detriment in terms of them actually being able to work on those things early in their career. But I don't really know, will be curious to see.
Yeah, with these deep playoff runs and international commitments, forget about off-season work. But these guys are working on their games year round to some extent. What's more important is the work he does in the Warriors building under their guidance.
If they both focus honing their understanding of the "team concepts", they'll grow a lot, be able to stay on the floor, and let their natural talents shine through.
On offense, I mean fundamental things like knowing the plays, where they're supposed to start, what they're supposed to do, and what their teammates are supposed to do. If they can also develop some understanding of the goals of the play and how to react to defensive actions, even better.
On defense, honing their comfort in a rotation scheme. Where to rotate from the weak side, X-outs. Being comfortable can be the difference between being on time vs. a half step slow, which is hugely impactful. Being more comfortable will let them focus their energy on the job at hand, and not spending half your mental effort thinking about the next step.
This. Also JK could do worse than to sit down and watch a selection of Eric's E1Ps about screening. Okay, he can learn it directly from Loon and Dray and the gang but he needs to learn it.
Dray was playing 3000+ minutes (reg season + playoffs) in those seasons, so badly needed off-season rest. Jon and Moses played 1200-700 (respectively) last season; and as you note, are 20 and 19 (respectively).
I think I've been one of the more obnoxious Kuminga fanbois on this site or maybe anywhere. ChaosSamedi, where are you, you too. The reason for this is *not* that I don't see Kuminga's flaws. As the article notes, in every game he does head-scratching things.
But this is to be expected. As we know, he's 19 and did not play in the same developmental systems as a lot of pros.
That doesn't tell us he necessarily will develop now, nor does it say he won't. Yet I think no one would deny the astonishing potential here. His athleticism, his flashes of brilliant play, his potential to be stellar on both offense and defense, are already evident. So I would say that by far the only question with Kuminga is rate of development. It can go super fast from here, it can proceed slowly, or it can never happen. The most likely answer is ... frustratingly slow.
But one of my frustrations regarding Kuminga is named in the article: Kerr being so conservative with his PT. I hope that will jump this year to a steady 15-20 minutes, nightly. Kuminga will learn a lot, and so will we. One thing I've noticed is that he seems to play to the level of challenge. He looks disengaged sometimes, isn't trying to go all out in summer league or in garbage time. Let's throw him in the pool, see if he can swim.
With regard to draft position, I think it's all dependent on this question of his development moving forward. At worst, he's a bust -- but I doubt it. Yet at best, he is the single best player in that draft class, and could reach MVP level play. Yep, I'm a fanboi...
the upside of a slow development of the 'young dubs' is the lower minutes=less big stat lines = no $40 mil contracts after their rookie ones are up meaning we can keep the team balanced like the current one (kinda like how Steph's 2nd contract was a value that set the stage for what we enjoy today)
Being “conservative” with the minutes of an 18-19 year-old may have nothing to do with how that player is handled going forward.
I personally found very little about last season “frustrating.” JK played 1185 minutes and was #4 on the team (tied with Klay) in points scored, and #1 among all lotto picks in scoring efficiency (a nice round .600 TS). In the playoffs he played 138 minutes, including a couple of somewhat high-lev situations; but as the stakes rose, in situations where his inexperience could have killed us, he mostly rode pine in favor of experienced guys like Otto and GP2 And … the Warriors won the whole damn thing.
Now Kuminga is a ripe old 19. (turning 20 in October). What are we supposed to be frustrated about, again?
"What are we supposed to be frustrated about, again?"
Quiero mas dunks.
But more to the point: Kuminga never had a consistent role, coming in at any predictable point for any predictable amount of time nor predictable role in the system. Be great if they could strive to find those to help him learn.
But that’s always how it is with teenagers on contending teams. It’s only nowheresville teams (like the 03-04 Cavs or 08-09 Thunder) that can afford to give teenagers consistent minutes and free rein.
Well, go root for the Kings for a few years, and see if you are still unhappy about it.
That's the situation they are in *every year* ... they have to put their picks into the rotation immediately, and suffer through pretty crappy play until they pick it up.
I also think last year's development pattern was largely a reaction to how unsuccessful just throwing Wiseman into the fire was in his first year. You can argue that they went too far the other way, or that Kuminga didn't need the same treatment, but it's understandable if they erred on the side of bringing Kuminga and Moody along slowly.
Woah, why do I have to go root for the Kangz? I done nothin' wrong?
Look, I'm not saying there's no *reason* why Kuminga's minutes pattern has not served only his interests. I get that the team has other interests to balance. I'm just wishing for more in his interest, if that can be balanced with team needs. I think it can be. For example, if we can win with Wiggins and Draymond playing less, that would be outstanding all around.
“despite this year being a particularly neurotic and whiny year on Dub Nation”
Us neurotic and whiny? Sir, don’t you understand thoughtful hard-edged analysis, a willingness to listen to and study all sides of an issue, the immediate over-reaction that is bread and high-fat European style butter to digital cognoscenti, the fear and desperation that even a 2 game losing streak inspires, the mental and emotional damage (documented in several high profile Harvard Medical School studies) that comes from repeated rosterbation, and the worry that today’s E1P will fail to cover the marvelous but hard to follow “triple split reverse outside Lembacher action” from last night’s game? Oh, the humanity! <Curls up into a ball and has a good cry>
Sep 2, 2022·edited Sep 2, 2022Liked by Eric Apricot
Another good summary and utterly fair evaluation of JK.
I was delighted when we picked him (though I would have been happy with Wagner as well) and even more thrilled to have Moody fall to us at 14. And I’m perfectly satisfied with the progress of the rookies. My expectations were low both for their ability to contribute to Kerrball and the likelihood that they’d get anything other than garbage time on the court. So my expectations were far surpassed. And they were fun!! to watch. I bet this grade for Kuminga goes up steadily the next few years.
I would have preferred Moody at #7 but obviously that was dumb since they got him at #14. I would have also preferred Wagner at #7 and I still feel pretty strongly about that. I still think both of those guys have more potential than Kuminga as of right now, am willing to reassess after this season.
But if Kuminga ends up a top 10 player in the class which I think is possible, it'd be hard to get too mad at the pick unless one of the guys drafted right behind him like Wagner, Mitchell, Williams, or Bouknight really ascend to superstardom. Warriors drafted Klay over Kawhi but no one really cares because Klay is really good.
Klay also seems like a better guy to have on this team -- low drama, reliable, happy complementing Steph. Not thinking Kawhi, for all of his talent, is any is that.
I have no idea, but I know that this reasoning would not have been enough to keep fans alright with the pick if the Warriors had drafted Jimmer Fredette which is my point. Klay got to a certain level where we feel good about the pick just like Hakeem Olajuwon did despite being taken ahead of Jordan (the bar was obviously higher for Olajuwon).
I’ll take Klay over Kawahi for the team that drafted him 100% of the time. Even with 2 years off, Klay has been twice as valuable to the Warriors as Kawahi was to the Spurs.
I remember you and I being the most vocal about Wagner when the #7 pick came up. After seeing Kuminga looking further along than expected in Summer League, I calmed down, but I yeah, I still think Wagner’s game looks more like a GSW fit.
I'm glad we picked Kuminga, but I'm hoping to see some pretty significant growth this season.
I personally was not all that impressed with what I've seen this summer. He dominated at school yard ball in summer league and FIBA. But, I think his deficiencies are more about how to play in the Warriors system (like knowing where to be and when to rotate on defense), so I was a little disappointed that I didn't see any work that seemed to be aimed at that.
I could be wrong (frequently am), and am really hoping we see some improved understanding of the system, so that he can stay on the floor.
Certainly I think one of the biggest question marks I have for him is whether he is willing to play a team game versus an individual one. He has the skillset to be Shawn Marion, but does he want that?
I haven't decided about Kuminga yet. He could either go down as an all-time great or "potential unrealized." The talent is there, and it was cool to see flashes of it last year. I think it all comes down to his work ethic. If he works hard, he could be huge.
I am very, very happy with Moses Moody. I'm hoping he and Poole will push Kuminga.
Agreed 100%. He obviously has the physical gifts, the talent and the skills. Does he have the commitment, interest, desire, the smarts to learn Kerrball? That will be the test.
Good victory, good defense, awesome Fontecchio yesterday evening for Italy against Estonia. Pozzecco, first tournament match as head coach, seems an enthusiastic motivator and some technical choices were good. Nico 12 pts, 4 ast, some confusion. The team defends really good, but without Gallo our chances are slim. Plus, tonight, there’s Greece with a PF I heard about somewhere.
Can I add how irritating all the pundits who were talking Davion Mitchell for the Warriors at 7. Holy Cow. Such a reprehensible ill-advised take.
TBF, Davion does a good GP2 impression and GP2 was a lot more critical to the previous ‘chip than JFK. And those pundits had no way of knowing that Bob could find GP2 on the scrap heap.
TOS did have D Mitchell to the Dubs at 7. Safe pick for a contending team. My view then: I don't know who the Dubs should pick, but I know who they shouldn't pick: D Mitchell.
GP2 played basically the 4 for the Warriors on offense.
Only similarity is they were PoA defenders, but GP2 also had the smarts (and wingspan) to nab steals off ball: 1.0 steals vs 2.8 steals per36.
Rebounds per 36: Payton 7.1, Mitchell 2.9
True Shooting %: Payton .679, Mitchell .489
But sure … other than the fact that Payton was fantastic last year and Mitchell was terrible, and the fact that they played totally different positions … Davion “does a good GP2 impression.” ;-P
To me, GP2 did a pretty good impression of JaVale McGee (with elite perimeter D), while Mitchell did a pretty good impression of Jonny Flynn.
I love the fact that Sleepy responded to this.
Just trying to get banned here - but have you seen Mitchell play in person? You can't trust those huge differences in efficiency. Just remember how Mitchell carried the ... wait, we're talking about Davion Mitchell and the Kings? Carry on.
Haha.
I will say that Davion passes the eye test (in the half-dozen or so games of his I watched last year) much better than he passes the stats test. But man, I’d be crushed if we had taken him over Kuminga, Wagner, Moody, et al.
"He's too small, Ernie!"
I didn’t want him at #14, either. Someone looking for receipts from DM’s supporters?. A lot of that was outside the DNHQ bubble but I think there were some here.
Credit Sleepy for seemingly responding to each one with “old, short, short-armed questionable shooter” speech. 😁
Lolz.
There were not one but four (edit: five) major red flags for me with Davion:
1. Old
2. Short and stubby-armed
3. Poor shooting peripherals
4. No ability to get himself to the FT line
5. Atrocious rebounding
If you could have eliminated just two of those things (pretty much any two!) I'd have considered him a less absurd pick at #7. He is an uber high character guy and seemingly great dude who plays great D (for a little guy).
Now this a Phood Fight post I can get behind!
Why, yes you may. Thanks heavens (and BobGod) that didn't happen.
I fell in love with Scottie Barnes early in the draft, when it actually seemed like we had a shot at him. And I had Josh Giddy right behind him. After them, I was about even on Wagner & Moody. The closer we got to the draft, the higher Scottie shot up the boards and rightfully so. I saw him as the heir to Draymond, a perfect fit. There goes OKC, and Presti was giddy for Giddy. At this point, I have Wagner and Mu-moe-moo-moo-Moody on my board, and it never occurred to me that JFK would be on the board. I hadn't watched a minute of Kuminga pre-draft because I didn't think we would even see him. So I had to scramble post-draft to get an idea of who he was.
Ahhh, I see the potential. I see the holes. But the G-League is the G League and I postponed any judgement until I saw him in the big leagues. And let's remind ourselves that his first year in the NBA should have been his first year in college.
DAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
If the Warriors ranked 26th in overall athleticism in the league (is that too high?), JFK single-handedly pushed them up to 15. I am having trouble coming up with comparisons to his combination of power & speed. Westbrook? Whoever it is, it is a one-handed list that he is on.
JFK is a walking time out. Kerr: "JK, we need a time out." JK: "Okay coach." Next play, drive and a foul, JK to the line, y'all get what we call a free-throw-time-out. If he can shoot 80% at the free throw line, he will average anywhere from 7-9 points a game on free throws alone. Even at 75%, he becomes another team's nightmare. And this is something the Warriors Desperately Seeking Susan needs.
The tools are there. He is surrounded by the best basketball minds in the business. He is immersed in the best bball culture since Duncan-Parker-Ginobili. The sky is the limit with this kid.
What we need to do as DubNation, is visualize what JK needs to do if he wants to be JFK (yes, you heard it here first, Jonathon "Freakin" Kuminga). JK will be a really really good NBA player. But if he wants to ascend into the level currently occupied by the Core, he has to let go of that which he loves most. The basketball.
We all know JK loves to break rims. It's his greatest love. When the ball is in his hands, he can turn into Smeagol (or Gollam), holding his basketball like the precious ring that controlled them all. He calls for it, he cradles it, he caresses it and calls it his "Precious." But if this guy can embrace the Warriors Way, he will become unstoppable. In the Warriors World, the player without the ball is more dangerous. If JK learns this, the Warriors will be unstoppable. The second the ball leaves his hands, en route to another player, is the second that the Red Sea parts and a hole to the rim is created.
The Warriors are the 7-Up of basketball. They are the Un-Cola. The Un-NBA. The Un-Basketball. "Give and ye shall receive" is the Word. Give up the ball and you will get it back!!!!!!!!!
Free throws. Open set 3s. And Give & Gos. I am not going to be worried about defense. That takes longer, we all know once a player has settled into a reliable offensive game his D can improve.
If JK can do this, if he can elevate his handle to JFK, then ho-be-Jesus, we are going to be a nightmare. Scottie Barnes and Giddy were picked before him, so if his only competition was Wagner, Moody, and Sengun, I think Bob had another par for the course awesome Bob Meyers draft.
I might not have been the first to call him JFK, but i will continue until TNT or teammates or whoever call him that on the air and it sticks (they will just say 'oh its because he takes off like an airplane flight, but we all will know)
I knew immediately what it meant because in my longtime corner of the virtual world we've been calling Ted Williams TFB for "Teddy freakin' Ballgame."
Oh Snap! I may have coined it first, but that analogy is just as good if not better. The only problem is all the flights that are delayed in the Summer, aka what is known as a 'Charge' in the NBA.
Yeah, I really wanted Scottie but as we got closer to draft it felt like he would be gone by 7.
I also didn't think JK would be there either, TBF.
I think my rankings for #7 were: Wagner, Moody, Giddey. I actually thought there would be a chance we could get Giddey at 14, lol me, but hey, we ended up getting Moody at 14 so whatever.
I watched that Tape Review with Schmitz that Scottie did and fell in love with his intangibles just hearing him talk about himself, his game and the way he studies the game.
He seems like such a great kid, too! He’d be like Draymond without all the bullshit.
" visualize what JK needs to do "
What I think Jonathon Kuminga needs to do... is first and foremost play more games.
Along with that- focus on defense, upping his personal defensive intensity, and especially learning to play within the team's defense schemes.
He has the physical skills and talents to settle "into a reliable offensive game" right now.
That is not in question.
Team first defense is what has gotten the Warriors to the championship level. Then the offensive abilities take over.
Yes, creating space and giving up the ball is an important part of "Warriors' World" when the team has skilled players who are shooters, and finishers at the rim .
But I think it starts with the team defense.
In my opinion that sometimes is the most important thing for all young players to learn.
It usually takes some time.
Wait. Do you think Kuminga is any good? Has potential? You lost me 🤩.
I'll go with "fair analysis" as well. The Warriors drafted Kuminga to be a star player in the *next* Warriors dynasty, not the current one. All they really need to extend the current dynastic reign was for Klay Thompson to be mostly healthy. and for Wiggins to play like an all-star.
Well, that and the emergence of splash little brother Jordan Poole to smooth out the ride and ironman Kevon Looney to be a fixture as center. GPII, OPJ, and even Bjelica made significant contributions as well. Helps not to sign the 2022 equivalent of Wannamaker and Oubre (no insult intended -- those guys are NBA players but just not a good fit for the Ws).
Reading all the comments about Kuminga and his potential for development has me wondering about the ongoing training these guys get (and I guess this is relevant for Wiseman, Moody and the latest batch of recruits). Yes, we all hope and expect the guys to put energy into developing skills in the off-season, no matter how short it is. But with the season running 9+ months long (ideally!) it seems like the young guys should be working on their game all year round. Especially if they are getting limited playing time so the physical demands are not extreme.
The W's have how many coaches? 9? 17? 44? If you have enough coaches I'd expect every single young player (heck, why not all of them) to have 12 month development plans detailed out, as well as coaching staff on hand to make sure that the guys are practicing the right things. When we have more coaches than players (ok, maybe we actually don't have that many) each player should be able to have daily one on one coaching time. At least that's what I'd do if I was running an insanely wealthy team and I cared about investing in/developing all my players.
Cool thing is, there is no salary cap of coaching staff.
I think from a talent perspective, I'm all in for the pick of Kuminga at #7. Even if he doesn't turn out, you take your shot at the ring, right?
That said, I could imagine other picks in that spot whose ceiling is clearly not as high but who might be willing to fit in with the core. I get the feeling that Kuminga isn't all that excited about that, and given that the core could go 2-3 more years, that's looking like it could be a problem. If so, that's too bad. I would really like to see him star with the Warriors. But the runway may be too long for his taste.
The case of Jordan Poole should be instructive. He has worked hard on his game and fit in where he could, and now, they may start to form the team around him. He's become that good and that important. I wish Kuminga would do the same. He's talented enough to force them to reconfigure -- and that would be better than sulking or seething.
" I get the feeling that Kuminga isn't all that excited about that" Maybe he needs a talk with Mr Natural, aka Andre Igoudala, to gain some perspective. 😊
Watching Italy vs Estonia: man, Fontecchio (Jazz next season) has range! 5/6 3p at halftime, two 30 footers.
Dove la davano? Eurosport?
L’ho guardata su Now, ma la davano anche su SkySport. Su Eurosport invece no.
I think in this coming season JK can already be impactful as an offensive finisher; cuts, short rolls, transition attacks. Biggest question is can he hit spot up 3s enough to play the 4 next to the likes of Dray/Loon/Wise. Otherwise, dunno how much he can play next to another non-shooter.
I already expect the defense to improve with experience.
For longer term and star potential, the handle needs to improve enough where he can be a real playmaker with the ball. If he can run some competent PnR, he'll be a terror with how he can draw fouls.
Then of course general improvement with the shooting, FT and 3pt.
I enjoyed the comments in the Kuminga and Curry off-ball E1P. Keep up the good work, Eric!
Curious to see what Kuminga has added to his game this off-season. The guys who are going to be great tend to make big leaps on their own time in the first few years. He had exciting flashes as a rookie. Let’s find out if he’s going to be great or just talented. So far Wagner and Moody seem like they would have been perfect for this team, and the Warriors seeming to have gone that direction with this year’s draft looks like a bit of a nod in that direction too.
For both Moody and Kuminga I am curious how much they can really add to their game in such a short offseason. I remember Draymond once explaining how he never got a chance to add to his games in those short offseasons that resulted from 5 straight Finals appearances because he was mostly focused on recovery from such a long season and prepping to be able to physically get through the following season which he expected to be another deep run. Then again Draymond wasn't 19 or 20 years old during those runs. Still, how much can you really add in like 2 months? I think it's possible that championship experience is invaluable for getting rookies to focus on the right things, but a detriment in terms of them actually being able to work on those things early in their career. But I don't really know, will be curious to see.
Yeah, with these deep playoff runs and international commitments, forget about off-season work. But these guys are working on their games year round to some extent. What's more important is the work he does in the Warriors building under their guidance.
I think they have enough time, if they have the right guidance.
If they both focus honing their understanding of the "team concepts", they'll grow a lot, be able to stay on the floor, and let their natural talents shine through.
On offense, I mean fundamental things like knowing the plays, where they're supposed to start, what they're supposed to do, and what their teammates are supposed to do. If they can also develop some understanding of the goals of the play and how to react to defensive actions, even better.
On defense, honing their comfort in a rotation scheme. Where to rotate from the weak side, X-outs. Being comfortable can be the difference between being on time vs. a half step slow, which is hugely impactful. Being more comfortable will let them focus their energy on the job at hand, and not spending half your mental effort thinking about the next step.
This. Also JK could do worse than to sit down and watch a selection of Eric's E1Ps about screening. Okay, he can learn it directly from Loon and Dray and the gang but he needs to learn it.
Dray was playing 3000+ minutes (reg season + playoffs) in those seasons, so badly needed off-season rest. Jon and Moses played 1200-700 (respectively) last season; and as you note, are 20 and 19 (respectively).
Draymond was not only older on those runs, he also played a lot more minutes those than MM and JFK.
A LOT more (see above).
More than that! (see below)
that <
I prefer
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I think I've been one of the more obnoxious Kuminga fanbois on this site or maybe anywhere. ChaosSamedi, where are you, you too. The reason for this is *not* that I don't see Kuminga's flaws. As the article notes, in every game he does head-scratching things.
But this is to be expected. As we know, he's 19 and did not play in the same developmental systems as a lot of pros.
That doesn't tell us he necessarily will develop now, nor does it say he won't. Yet I think no one would deny the astonishing potential here. His athleticism, his flashes of brilliant play, his potential to be stellar on both offense and defense, are already evident. So I would say that by far the only question with Kuminga is rate of development. It can go super fast from here, it can proceed slowly, or it can never happen. The most likely answer is ... frustratingly slow.
But one of my frustrations regarding Kuminga is named in the article: Kerr being so conservative with his PT. I hope that will jump this year to a steady 15-20 minutes, nightly. Kuminga will learn a lot, and so will we. One thing I've noticed is that he seems to play to the level of challenge. He looks disengaged sometimes, isn't trying to go all out in summer league or in garbage time. Let's throw him in the pool, see if he can swim.
With regard to draft position, I think it's all dependent on this question of his development moving forward. At worst, he's a bust -- but I doubt it. Yet at best, he is the single best player in that draft class, and could reach MVP level play. Yep, I'm a fanboi...
the upside of a slow development of the 'young dubs' is the lower minutes=less big stat lines = no $40 mil contracts after their rookie ones are up meaning we can keep the team balanced like the current one (kinda like how Steph's 2nd contract was a value that set the stage for what we enjoy today)
> One thing I've noticed is that he seems to play to the level of challenge.
That game against the Lakers where he was matched up against LeBron, I think in February, was really impressive in this regard.
Being “conservative” with the minutes of an 18-19 year-old may have nothing to do with how that player is handled going forward.
I personally found very little about last season “frustrating.” JK played 1185 minutes and was #4 on the team (tied with Klay) in points scored, and #1 among all lotto picks in scoring efficiency (a nice round .600 TS). In the playoffs he played 138 minutes, including a couple of somewhat high-lev situations; but as the stakes rose, in situations where his inexperience could have killed us, he mostly rode pine in favor of experienced guys like Otto and GP2 And … the Warriors won the whole damn thing.
Now Kuminga is a ripe old 19. (turning 20 in October). What are we supposed to be frustrated about, again?
Wow! I didn't know he was first overall in TS% among rookies (albeit probably on many fewer attempts that some of the others).
Per minute, he scored at the highest efficiency *and* highest volume among the 14 lottery picks.
Second highest efficiency: Moses Moody.
Damn you Sleepy ... I was mildly skeptical about Kuminga, but you're using facts to convince me.
You should have just told me to go and watch more games.
I think Sleepy is wise enough to know that if he simply put the facts out there, you would draw the right conclusions!
"What are we supposed to be frustrated about, again?"
Quiero mas dunks.
But more to the point: Kuminga never had a consistent role, coming in at any predictable point for any predictable amount of time nor predictable role in the system. Be great if they could strive to find those to help him learn.
Quiero mas dunks?
Fucking Priceless!!! Laughing my sorry ass to sleep!
But that’s always how it is with teenagers on contending teams. It’s only nowheresville teams (like the 03-04 Cavs or 08-09 Thunder) that can afford to give teenagers consistent minutes and free rein.
Agreed. But just because it's true doesn't mean I like it; nor, more to the point, that Kuminga will develop well that way. But we're in agreement.
Well, go root for the Kings for a few years, and see if you are still unhappy about it.
That's the situation they are in *every year* ... they have to put their picks into the rotation immediately, and suffer through pretty crappy play until they pick it up.
I also think last year's development pattern was largely a reaction to how unsuccessful just throwing Wiseman into the fire was in his first year. You can argue that they went too far the other way, or that Kuminga didn't need the same treatment, but it's understandable if they erred on the side of bringing Kuminga and Moody along slowly.
Woah, why do I have to go root for the Kangz? I done nothin' wrong?
Look, I'm not saying there's no *reason* why Kuminga's minutes pattern has not served only his interests. I get that the team has other interests to balance. I'm just wishing for more in his interest, if that can be balanced with team needs. I think it can be. For example, if we can win with Wiggins and Draymond playing less, that would be outstanding all around.
I file these under “good problems to have.”
(Not at all off topic) And I quote:
“despite this year being a particularly neurotic and whiny year on Dub Nation”
Us neurotic and whiny? Sir, don’t you understand thoughtful hard-edged analysis, a willingness to listen to and study all sides of an issue, the immediate over-reaction that is bread and high-fat European style butter to digital cognoscenti, the fear and desperation that even a 2 game losing streak inspires, the mental and emotional damage (documented in several high profile Harvard Medical School studies) that comes from repeated rosterbation, and the worry that today’s E1P will fail to cover the marvelous but hard to follow “triple split reverse outside Lembacher action” from last night’s game? Oh, the humanity! <Curls up into a ball and has a good cry>
Me ... neurotic? Needless worrier?
Never.
hey you selectively edited my text! It said
> this year being a particularly neurotic and whiny year on Dub Nation **Twitter**
DNHQ comment section has been the most level-headed on Dub Nation Internet, relatively speaking
We have very good leadership.
Here here
I’m so relieved.
Lol I was wondering if you'd notice that! Yes, all part of my bit, I hope you laughed. And I don't even post on (or read) Twitter.
Another good summary and utterly fair evaluation of JK.
I was delighted when we picked him (though I would have been happy with Wagner as well) and even more thrilled to have Moody fall to us at 14. And I’m perfectly satisfied with the progress of the rookies. My expectations were low both for their ability to contribute to Kerrball and the likelihood that they’d get anything other than garbage time on the court. So my expectations were far surpassed. And they were fun!! to watch. I bet this grade for Kuminga goes up steadily the next few years.
I would have preferred Moody at #7 but obviously that was dumb since they got him at #14. I would have also preferred Wagner at #7 and I still feel pretty strongly about that. I still think both of those guys have more potential than Kuminga as of right now, am willing to reassess after this season.
But if Kuminga ends up a top 10 player in the class which I think is possible, it'd be hard to get too mad at the pick unless one of the guys drafted right behind him like Wagner, Mitchell, Williams, or Bouknight really ascend to superstardom. Warriors drafted Klay over Kawhi but no one really cares because Klay is really good.
Klay also seems like a better guy to have on this team -- low drama, reliable, happy complementing Steph. Not thinking Kawhi, for all of his talent, is any is that.
If the Warriors had drafted Kawhi, do you think he'd still be a Warrior right now?
I have no idea, but I know that this reasoning would not have been enough to keep fans alright with the pick if the Warriors had drafted Jimmer Fredette which is my point. Klay got to a certain level where we feel good about the pick just like Hakeem Olajuwon did despite being taken ahead of Jordan (the bar was obviously higher for Olajuwon).
Nope, I think his destiny was always LA. Even if we 3peated or whatever
I’ll take Klay over Kawahi for the team that drafted him 100% of the time. Even with 2 years off, Klay has been twice as valuable to the Warriors as Kawahi was to the Spurs.
I remember you and I being the most vocal about Wagner when the #7 pick came up. After seeing Kuminga looking further along than expected in Summer League, I calmed down, but I yeah, I still think Wagner’s game looks more like a GSW fit.
I'm glad we picked Kuminga, but I'm hoping to see some pretty significant growth this season.
I personally was not all that impressed with what I've seen this summer. He dominated at school yard ball in summer league and FIBA. But, I think his deficiencies are more about how to play in the Warriors system (like knowing where to be and when to rotate on defense), so I was a little disappointed that I didn't see any work that seemed to be aimed at that.
I could be wrong (frequently am), and am really hoping we see some improved understanding of the system, so that he can stay on the floor.
Certainly I think one of the biggest question marks I have for him is whether he is willing to play a team game versus an individual one. He has the skillset to be Shawn Marion, but does he want that?
He’s also got the talent to build on that Shawn Marion skill set and be much better…
You put it better than I did.
I haven't decided about Kuminga yet. He could either go down as an all-time great or "potential unrealized." The talent is there, and it was cool to see flashes of it last year. I think it all comes down to his work ethic. If he works hard, he could be huge.
I am very, very happy with Moses Moody. I'm hoping he and Poole will push Kuminga.
To me, hoping other players will push another sends up red flags. I prefer my #7 lottery picks to be self starters.
Agreed 100%. He obviously has the physical gifts, the talent and the skills. Does he have the commitment, interest, desire, the smarts to learn Kerrball? That will be the test.