This team’s defense has basically been trash all year. Just seems very passive, generally unable to stop teams from finding decent looks, unable to make teams uncomfortable, and making enough mistakes to give enough easy looks on top of that.
Last night, early in the game after a Dubs basket, JK and Klay completely botched a switch on a handoff with JK fighting over a screen to stay with Herro and leaving Jaquez a free lane to the basket. Who’s fault? Both.
I do think one thing about not having Dray and GP2 is that the guys remaining don't seem like big talkers or effective talkers on defense; ie Wiggins, Klay, JK.
Actually, I'm guessing CP3 does communicate and that's why Kerr uses him in defensive end of game lineups
-Paul is a half-court PG, slows pace down/2d unit excels
-Klay does not get the catch-n-shoot ops in his sweet spots; Steph need start jumping up and down to get A ROOK TO FIND HIM BEFORE HE CHUCKS A ROOK 3PTER...Who are the shooters on this team?
-Now that everyone has a few starts under their belt, when Dray gets back, we need get the SHIP STARTERS BACK ON THE FLOOR, AND WORK FROM THERE YOUR ROTATIONS the rest of the season...you are not winning many games if Steph/Klay/Wiggs are not shooting/are not right..in Warriors Ball pace and transition. ''Playoffs Barnes'' was the last ROOK that excelled/impacted on a DUB playoffs run....
The line up that turned the game into a heat blitz seemed to have Wiggins, Kuminga, and Klay all on the floor together. Guess Kerr is still looking for the right guys to put around Wiggins and Kuminga. I’m starting to think those guys are only theoretical defenders this year. In concept they should form the backbone of a nasty defensive oriented switch everything lineup. In reality the D is tragic with them out there and the offense flows like molasses.
I find the rebuilding process electrifying. Firstly, I remember with much love the 15-50 team, believe it or not. Secondly, the draft has meant and will mean marvels, steals, nice new kids that we’ll love like Jk, TDJ, Moody, Podz. Thirdly, if we grant the property continuity, we’ll manage to keep Curry (that, I insist, will play until 42 at least)
I want to explain some of my insistence about Jordan Poole, so that if you still feel like I’m a d1ck, at least you know why I am that so.
I’ve been working for the same firm for almost my entire active life. Guess what is, in these 25 years, the most humbling experience, the lowest point where I felt absolutely worthless?. Yes, it was that day. The day when a colleague, out of the blue, for no reason concerning me, that wasn’t the simple fact that I happened to be there in front of him, insulted me, assaulted me and pushed me against the wall. The colleague later apologized and explained, but the pain, the damage is STILL THERE INSIDE ME, after 20+ years.
I sincerely hope that you don’t understand, because if you do, it would mean that you have lived a similar pain.
Where does that lead to? To this: JP’s career, imho, has been cracked and ruined by that punch in a way that I wish you don’t understand. I do, partially. No one else does, except the ones that have been betrayed by the people they loved and they cared for.
Remember it, next time you see JP dribbling upon his feet.
Stefano, thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry that that happened to you. It gives me more insight into the situation that I did not consider before.
The warriors are not the same championship team anymore. The other teams will continue to keep pressure on Steph. And Turning over the ball continues to be out of control for the warriors. Nothing last forever. So the only way Steph will win another ring, is to change teams before he retires!!!😉
Yeah, it’s ring or bust for these guys; and while it’s not certain a ring isn’t gonna happen, it’s looking very unlikely from this vantage.
And I say ring or bust because even if this team were to somehow, say, make it all the way to game 7 of the Finals and lose, the team is probably not any better next year as the core will age even faster from wear of yet another deep run.
I’ve been on Team “Let’s Get The New Era Started” which I know is is in a different arena from Team “All-In For Steph”, but I think the latter just delays the next championship, whether that happens 5 years from now or 50. Not saying to move Steph necessarily either, but it’s at least time to start serious discussions about moving him from the untouchable list especially with every new addition to the loss column.
The Warriors might never win another title in our lifetime. Blowing it up doesn’t give any more of a shot to win than not blowing it up. Most teams that tank don’t ever win it all.
If you like winning shouldn’t you hope the team makes good adjustments and keep trying to be good. At least then you can enjoy some playoff games.
>> Blowing it up doesn’t give any more of a shot to win than not blowing it up.
Disagree. You need a transcendent superstar like Steph, LBJ, Giannis, Duncan, and then surround them with secondary stars and solid depth. If we can't provide Steph with the tools he needs, we ought to start from scratch, while giving Steph the legit chance to cement his legacy as a top-5 all-time player by trading him to an ascending team. If Minnie and OKC can become legit contenders, so can the next-gen Warriors. SF is much more desirable destination for FA stars than those cities. All that's left is to draft the next transcendent player, and that's more likely with lots of draft capital than with depleted coffers and no young core.
The Spurs didn’t blow it up to get Duncan and there’s no guarantee he wouldn’t have been Karl Malone if they had blown it up instead of adding him to a good team.
The Cavs didn’t win on the team controlled part of LBJ’s journey. Giannis was picked when in the draft?
It’s just a theory that blowing it up leads to future success.
Warriors had only 4 turnovers in the 2nd half while the Heat had 9. The problems I saw based on the stats were our three best scorers missing a bunch of shots, and our defense letting a team with the 2nd lowest points scored in the paint/game scoring a lot of points in the paint.
I agree, going cold and not getting stops. The defensive issues has been a huge concern for me. Maybe Mike Brown had more of an impact than I realized.
This team deserves four more weeks with Dray and GP2 to move firmly out of play-in range.
If that doesn't happen, I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't be mad if they completely blew it up to collect future assets instead of a doing a desperation trade in a very likely futile effort to try to get one more ring. This team is just not good enough, and there isn't a single-player magical fix.
Everyone not on a rookie-scale contract would be up for grabs. Ship Steph to the Knicks, Dray to Detroit, GP2 to SacTown, Wiggs to Washington, Dario and CP3 to some contender with a struggling bench or need for vet leadership. Klay can stay or go if he finds a team that wants him. Maybe keep Loon as the vet moral center of the team. Collect as many assets as possible and rebuild.
This effort is just sad to watch. No joy outside the young ones. 4 more weeks to prevent that scenario.
Klay at current performance with current contract is a negative value asset. Those are usually hard to sell unless you throw in something else of positive value. Why do that?
True. But Klay's contract is up this year. Either he 1)gets the max contract he expects from some other team (ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha) and the Dubs let him walk and wish him well, 2)he signs with the Dubs for a fair salary for his current production and knows his new role, 3)the Dubs let him walk for nothing (and cancel plans for his statue--even KD didn't feel he should hurt the team as he left even though he wanted to leave), or 4)he agrees to a sign-and-trade (and plans for his statue continue). He isn't punished for not signing on to a rebuild, but if he walks for nothing, so does his statue.
No one wants to hear Steph not being a Warrior. But yeah, if we’ve seen his last parade in the Bay we gotta move on and secure something for the future. As much as people say they’re gonna ride with this team ‘til the wheels fall off, truth is, no one wants to see a bad team, Steph or no Steph. And at these old guys’ ages, every new day is one where there’s risk that something happens that diminishes their trade value dramatically.
Like Billy Beane said once upon a time, “better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.” This might have to be the year. Maybe last year was the year. But if we stay mediocre at best, then next year might be too late.
Only the Wizards and the Blazers starters had worse efficiency differential than us. I just don't get why our starters are so bad this season when they were good last season and had a similar lineup.
Klay and Wiggins have declined to where they can keep Dray-Looney tenable on offense. Still get similar spacing issues with JK-Looney.
No idea what happened to the starters defense though. I suppose Dray being hurt and out of shape and then constsntly getting suspended doesn't help.
As for the new starting lineup, well it has a 20 and a 21yo in it, so not too unexpected they'd struggle a bit, though it certainly has more energy than the OG starting unit.
But really I think it all comes down to Klay and Wiggins having piss poor starts to the year. And of course Draymond constantly making himself unavailable.
Efficiency differential is a very useful stat — basically the same thing as net rating. The only caveat we need to keep in mind is that 31 games is still a smallish sample when dealing with constantly evolving rotations and five-man units that have in many cases played fewer than 50 total minutes together.
It's frustrating to see our starters struggle this season. Tonight, our bench has had as many points as the starters did tonight (51 points). Our three top scorers--Curry, Klay, Wiggins--did not shoot well. It seems to be a pattern for this season: our bench does very well, but our starters let the team down and lose the game.
A culture of turnovers and fouling was established waaay back when, when a certain coach took over with a certain group of young players. But said YGs could score so the deficiencies were overlooked. Now those YGs ate OGs and not good enough and the coach is stuck in the past and has refused to look back and realize he needs YGs
I'm not gonna argue that Steph's TOs are not overlooked, but just to start on the holes in this, the biggest non-Steph sources of TOs last season were Draymond (non-scorer) and Poole (YG, not OG). Last night it was Kuminga (YG). So I hear your frustration, but I don't buy your explanation.
Our season would look way better if Steph didn't take a nosedive since Dray got suspended. Thankfully, we've been playing some pretty bad teams, but against the better teams, he hasn't showed up.
Clips - 5/17 and 3/13 from 3
Nuggs - 7/21 and 3/13 from 3
Heat - 3/15 and 2/8 from 3
He also went 8/24 and 4/15 from 3 against the Suns in the game Dray got suspended when there was no KD and only 11 min of Okogie.
He did show up against the Celtics so there's that.
Steph will miss shots. That's bound to happen sometimes. But I would love if he didn't look so disengaged (at least to me).
I'm purty sure Steph got a real blingy set of golf clubs for Xmas. If the NBA is his wife, he’s having a sultry affair with golf. Sorry Steph, but we saw you cheating, spending time practicing your putts on some god forsaken greens! Come back to the gym! Smell your sneakers! Snap out of it! You’re not Arnold Palmer!
People been saying he's exhausted for a while. And my response to that is if he's exhausted 31 games into the season, we're done for. I have PTSD from exhaustion after seeing Klay throw up those bricks last year in the playoffs after being so good in the regular season.
According to stats, Curry's averaging 33.4 mins/game, which is the lowest since the 2017-18 season. If he's still tired after playing that many minutes per game, then I'm not sure what to say at this point.
“According to stats” he’s also averaging 30.3 minutes *per Warriors game* — his most since 2016-17, when he was 28.
2017-18: 19.1
2018-19: 28.4
2019-20: 1.7
2020-21: 26.2
2021-22: 27.0
2022-23: 23.7
2023-24; 30.3
So one thing we might say at this point (beyond just, “stuff happens”) is that he’s about to turn 36 and probably needs to mix in a rest game here and there.
Worth noting that the Xmas day egg he laid in Denver came on his 3rd game in 4 days, at 11 am PST, in a low oxygen environment.
Yeah, he had a couple days off to recover between that and the Heat game, but in those days: a plane ride from Denver, plus Christmas gatherings with his three kids and family, plus his zillion other PR obligations as an international megastar.
So I dunno, I’d cut him a little slack and go easy on the “I’m not sure what to say at this point” pearl-clutching.
Truth is, these dudes are old in NBA terms, and I think at those ages it’s not unheard of for players to decline at a relatively fast pace. A lot of us might think, because he’s been amazing often still, that Steph is gonna decline slowly or that he’s a ways off from beginning to, but we can’t be surprised if it’s rapid, because again, he’s an old player at an age where most players in NBA history have become or were washed.
Curry isn’t most players, sure, but there’s no guarantee that he still doesn’t fall off (or at least start stumbling dramatically towards) a cliff. Father Time isn’t predictable that way, or if he is, it’s often in the wrong direction that we’d like.
If it’s indeed exhaustion, maybe it’s time for Kerr to change up the offense so Steph isn’t running around so much. But the exhaustion point is just a theory.
Something doesn’t feel right... I think a trade is almost inevitable at this point and I do have a feeling JK will be involved. For who? Honestly wouldn’t be able to tell you but if we’re still hovering around .500 in the next 10 games I think it’ll become reality sooner than later.
Who knows though. Maybe getting GP2 and eventually Draymond back kicks us into another gear. Too many maybes though. I have no idea what version of Draymond we will get back.
Doesn't matter, Dray is responsible for most of the bad shit that has happened to this team starting with KD. He is irresponsible for his behavior and to expect anything different from him examining his navel for 3 weeks is bonkers. He ain't gonna change.
Seriously. While I am fully aware that this is normally just a claim made by douchebags and racists, on that Dray *did* say what everyone else in the building was thinking.
This was a bad loss for the Dubs. I was expecting a different outcome but I now see that we will struggle just to stay in the Play-In column. We seem to be no better than a .500 club in spite of our inspired rookies. The Splash Bros AWOL in two straight games. Kuminga not ready to play this game. Too many slack areas to list. Perhaps the trade machine can be played with to assuage our dismay. But dismay it is. Something must change in our team. Players? Coaches? It's all up in the air and I fear the FO may be suffering some paralysis or denial. The one certainty that I have is that this team is done competing for a ring.
I believe it all traces back to Kerr losing sight of the goal, which is WIN A TITLE. Not "WIN A TITLE WITH CURRY, KLAY, and DRAY." Sure, if CKD are playing well, they should play. But once that stopped happening, continuing to prioritize Klay just kicked the legs out from under any pretense of accountability. And toss in the punch and I'm sure the young guns are laughing inside when any of the OG's "instruct" them. The only difference is CP3, who isn't tainted by last season.
So, once you hypocritically betray the "Strength in Numbers" mantra, what do you expect to happen? Why should JK sacrifice his shot at generational wealth just so Klay can be all in his feels, play some undeserved crunch time minutes, and cost the team the game? And so on.
Ever see the movie "Unforgiven"? Its a nice fictionalized account of how everything can collapse, hurting everyone, when the sheriff in town puts accountability aside for some. I know some may see this as a stretch, but this is an issue that matters for every single institution there is. When people see favoritism, nepotism, double-standards, and such, it ramifies through to damage the whole operation. And that, I believe, is what we are seeing here and now.
And it is supremely frustrating because it is 100% predictable and because Klay's brief intensification of defensive attention after he sat, and the team performing better than expected with Dray on suspension, shows that the whole fiasco could have been avoided if only Coach Kerr had done his job. But like a parent who wants to be friends with one of their kids instead of enforce appropriate standards fairly, Kerr has often abdicated his responsibility. And, in my opinion, the title window is starting to close in large part because of that. Maybe a new coach, untainted by that history, and with a different relation to the players on the roster, could make next year better. But, maybe not.
Parade day speeches are about emotion, not strategy. And when Lacob speaks publicly, that's pretty much what you get. So I don't hold that against anyone.
The more relevant point is that accountability does not mean you can't WIN NOW. In fact, accountability is your surest path TO win now. Further, accountability does not mean you have to trade vets whose role has to diminish for the team to have a chance to win. Starters/finishers don't typically play 48 minutes. There is a role for declining yet still savvy and capable vets, IF they will accept it. Their ability to accept it is not fully in a coach/GM's control, but their ability to accept it does depend somewhat on how you do it. But the past is prologue here. If the Dubs operate with a double-standard (as they have), they make it that much harder for a declining vet to accept a new, diminished but still important role. What person, having once been treated as above the rules, would easily accept becoming subject to them while others ascend to the unaccountable spot they formerly occupied? Not many.
I'm not yet convinced Curry is not our present and immediate future leader. Everyone else from the last Championship is expendable. But we can't and should not pull the whole rug from underneath his tired feet. He is the only player we have that is single handedly capable of winning a game. So, in light of that, can he survive without his past partners? Is he willing to pave the way for the next wave? make sacrifices for the team? I've seen no indication of this except his talk of winning a ring again. He must realize his chances are slim as they stand.
I am with you. I do not think Curry is in the same category as Dray and Klay. Curry is still playing well enough to be the #1 on a championship team. If coach would cut back his minutes to save him more for the playoffs, and play the young guns so the team wins some games, the whole league would be talking about the renaissance by the bay.
Last year, when the OG's led the league in +/-, that was the argument to keep playing them and sit the young guns. Well, now the stats have reversed. The OG's are not just blowing leads (like they did last year), they are performing consistently and statistically worse than the young guns. If last year's stats justified keeping the starting and finishing line-ups as they were--and that's what many said--then this year's stats demand the starting/finishing line-ups change.
I miss the basketball koans. Or would, if I could remember them...
This team’s defense has basically been trash all year. Just seems very passive, generally unable to stop teams from finding decent looks, unable to make teams uncomfortable, and making enough mistakes to give enough easy looks on top of that.
Last night, early in the game after a Dubs basket, JK and Klay completely botched a switch on a handoff with JK fighting over a screen to stay with Herro and leaving Jaquez a free lane to the basket. Who’s fault? Both.
I do think one thing about not having Dray and GP2 is that the guys remaining don't seem like big talkers or effective talkers on defense; ie Wiggins, Klay, JK.
Actually, I'm guessing CP3 does communicate and that's why Kerr uses him in defensive end of game lineups
When we sucketh, we sucketh good.
-No Warriors Ball being played
-Draymond is direly-missed
-It is about combinations, Steve
-Paul is a half-court PG, slows pace down/2d unit excels
-Klay does not get the catch-n-shoot ops in his sweet spots; Steph need start jumping up and down to get A ROOK TO FIND HIM BEFORE HE CHUCKS A ROOK 3PTER...Who are the shooters on this team?
-Now that everyone has a few starts under their belt, when Dray gets back, we need get the SHIP STARTERS BACK ON THE FLOOR, AND WORK FROM THERE YOUR ROTATIONS the rest of the season...you are not winning many games if Steph/Klay/Wiggs are not shooting/are not right..in Warriors Ball pace and transition. ''Playoffs Barnes'' was the last ROOK that excelled/impacted on a DUB playoffs run....
Guys who should be playing consistent minutes:
TJD, Podz, Moody, Steph, GP2 (when available), CP though I hate to type it.
The rest of the roster should be based on how hot they are in a given game. Even Draymond was pretty bad before his ejections.
with you til that last bit!
The line up that turned the game into a heat blitz seemed to have Wiggins, Kuminga, and Klay all on the floor together. Guess Kerr is still looking for the right guys to put around Wiggins and Kuminga. I’m starting to think those guys are only theoretical defenders this year. In concept they should form the backbone of a nasty defensive oriented switch everything lineup. In reality the D is tragic with them out there and the offense flows like molasses.
I find the rebuilding process electrifying. Firstly, I remember with much love the 15-50 team, believe it or not. Secondly, the draft has meant and will mean marvels, steals, nice new kids that we’ll love like Jk, TDJ, Moody, Podz. Thirdly, if we grant the property continuity, we’ll manage to keep Curry (that, I insist, will play until 42 at least)
Hi Dubs,
I want to explain some of my insistence about Jordan Poole, so that if you still feel like I’m a d1ck, at least you know why I am that so.
I’ve been working for the same firm for almost my entire active life. Guess what is, in these 25 years, the most humbling experience, the lowest point where I felt absolutely worthless?. Yes, it was that day. The day when a colleague, out of the blue, for no reason concerning me, that wasn’t the simple fact that I happened to be there in front of him, insulted me, assaulted me and pushed me against the wall. The colleague later apologized and explained, but the pain, the damage is STILL THERE INSIDE ME, after 20+ years.
I sincerely hope that you don’t understand, because if you do, it would mean that you have lived a similar pain.
Where does that lead to? To this: JP’s career, imho, has been cracked and ruined by that punch in a way that I wish you don’t understand. I do, partially. No one else does, except the ones that have been betrayed by the people they loved and they cared for.
Remember it, next time you see JP dribbling upon his feet.
https://x.com/warriors/status/1586417582910844928?s=20
Stefano, thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry that that happened to you. It gives me more insight into the situation that I did not consider before.
Thnx for that.
The persistence of trauma is undeniable, and I had not thought of Jordan that way.
The warriors are not the same championship team anymore. The other teams will continue to keep pressure on Steph. And Turning over the ball continues to be out of control for the warriors. Nothing last forever. So the only way Steph will win another ring, is to change teams before he retires!!!😉
Yeah, it’s ring or bust for these guys; and while it’s not certain a ring isn’t gonna happen, it’s looking very unlikely from this vantage.
And I say ring or bust because even if this team were to somehow, say, make it all the way to game 7 of the Finals and lose, the team is probably not any better next year as the core will age even faster from wear of yet another deep run.
I’ve been on Team “Let’s Get The New Era Started” which I know is is in a different arena from Team “All-In For Steph”, but I think the latter just delays the next championship, whether that happens 5 years from now or 50. Not saying to move Steph necessarily either, but it’s at least time to start serious discussions about moving him from the untouchable list especially with every new addition to the loss column.
Why aren’t exciting playoff runs a good thing?
The Warriors might never win another title in our lifetime. Blowing it up doesn’t give any more of a shot to win than not blowing it up. Most teams that tank don’t ever win it all.
If you like winning shouldn’t you hope the team makes good adjustments and keep trying to be good. At least then you can enjoy some playoff games.
>> Blowing it up doesn’t give any more of a shot to win than not blowing it up.
Disagree. You need a transcendent superstar like Steph, LBJ, Giannis, Duncan, and then surround them with secondary stars and solid depth. If we can't provide Steph with the tools he needs, we ought to start from scratch, while giving Steph the legit chance to cement his legacy as a top-5 all-time player by trading him to an ascending team. If Minnie and OKC can become legit contenders, so can the next-gen Warriors. SF is much more desirable destination for FA stars than those cities. All that's left is to draft the next transcendent player, and that's more likely with lots of draft capital than with depleted coffers and no young core.
The Spurs didn’t blow it up to get Duncan and there’s no guarantee he wouldn’t have been Karl Malone if they had blown it up instead of adding him to a good team.
The Cavs didn’t win on the team controlled part of LBJ’s journey. Giannis was picked when in the draft?
It’s just a theory that blowing it up leads to future success.
This!
Warriors had only 4 turnovers in the 2nd half while the Heat had 9. The problems I saw based on the stats were our three best scorers missing a bunch of shots, and our defense letting a team with the 2nd lowest points scored in the paint/game scoring a lot of points in the paint.
I agree, going cold and not getting stops. The defensive issues has been a huge concern for me. Maybe Mike Brown had more of an impact than I realized.
Turnovers were completely fine today outside of that 5 min stretch from Kuminga
This team deserves four more weeks with Dray and GP2 to move firmly out of play-in range.
If that doesn't happen, I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't be mad if they completely blew it up to collect future assets instead of a doing a desperation trade in a very likely futile effort to try to get one more ring. This team is just not good enough, and there isn't a single-player magical fix.
Everyone not on a rookie-scale contract would be up for grabs. Ship Steph to the Knicks, Dray to Detroit, GP2 to SacTown, Wiggs to Washington, Dario and CP3 to some contender with a struggling bench or need for vet leadership. Klay can stay or go if he finds a team that wants him. Maybe keep Loon as the vet moral center of the team. Collect as many assets as possible and rebuild.
This effort is just sad to watch. No joy outside the young ones. 4 more weeks to prevent that scenario.
Any fire sale that keeps Klay is a failed fire sale.
Klay at current performance with current contract is a negative value asset. Those are usually hard to sell unless you throw in something else of positive value. Why do that?
True. But Klay's contract is up this year. Either he 1)gets the max contract he expects from some other team (ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha) and the Dubs let him walk and wish him well, 2)he signs with the Dubs for a fair salary for his current production and knows his new role, 3)the Dubs let him walk for nothing (and cancel plans for his statue--even KD didn't feel he should hurt the team as he left even though he wanted to leave), or 4)he agrees to a sign-and-trade (and plans for his statue continue). He isn't punished for not signing on to a rebuild, but if he walks for nothing, so does his statue.
I don't get the statue part - the trio statue is secure regardless.
There’s another scenario you left off: Strategically letting him walk to reduce salary and tax burden.
No one wants to hear Steph not being a Warrior. But yeah, if we’ve seen his last parade in the Bay we gotta move on and secure something for the future. As much as people say they’re gonna ride with this team ‘til the wheels fall off, truth is, no one wants to see a bad team, Steph or no Steph. And at these old guys’ ages, every new day is one where there’s risk that something happens that diminishes their trade value dramatically.
Like Billy Beane said once upon a time, “better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.” This might have to be the year. Maybe last year was the year. But if we stay mediocre at best, then next year might be too late.
I thought it was Bill Walsh who said that.
Why Dario?
The duo of Dario and CP3 might fetch *something*
Why not just CP3 and a gleaguer like Quinones? Don't you think Dario is a useful piece for us?
In the rebuilding scenario? Likely not as much as to us as to a contender paired with Chris Paul. You see every game how well they work together.
I'm not sure if this is a useful stat, but here's what I found: our bench is #1 in efficiency differential (+20.5)
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/24/7/diffeff/1-1
But our starters are #28 in efficiency differential. (-17.1)
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/24/6/diffeff/1-1
Only the Wizards and the Blazers starters had worse efficiency differential than us. I just don't get why our starters are so bad this season when they were good last season and had a similar lineup.
Klay and Wiggins have declined to where they can keep Dray-Looney tenable on offense. Still get similar spacing issues with JK-Looney.
No idea what happened to the starters defense though. I suppose Dray being hurt and out of shape and then constsntly getting suspended doesn't help.
As for the new starting lineup, well it has a 20 and a 21yo in it, so not too unexpected they'd struggle a bit, though it certainly has more energy than the OG starting unit.
But really I think it all comes down to Klay and Wiggins having piss poor starts to the year. And of course Draymond constantly making himself unavailable.
Efficiency differential is a very useful stat — basically the same thing as net rating. The only caveat we need to keep in mind is that 31 games is still a smallish sample when dealing with constantly evolving rotations and five-man units that have in many cases played fewer than 50 total minutes together.
Two reasons. Draymond Green, the saga, and aging Splash Bros. Unrealistic pressure to WIN NOW.
It's frustrating to see our starters struggle this season. Tonight, our bench has had as many points as the starters did tonight (51 points). Our three top scorers--Curry, Klay, Wiggins--did not shoot well. It seems to be a pattern for this season: our bench does very well, but our starters let the team down and lose the game.
20 assists, 0 turnovers for Halliburton tonight which begs the question: why are we so bad with turnovers?
A culture of turnovers and fouling was established waaay back when, when a certain coach took over with a certain group of young players. But said YGs could score so the deficiencies were overlooked. Now those YGs ate OGs and not good enough and the coach is stuck in the past and has refused to look back and realize he needs YGs
We're talking about Don Nelson here right? The great time out that carried over into present day.
Um, did you watch tonight's game?
Yes / did you watch the last season?
I'm not gonna argue that Steph's TOs are not overlooked, but just to start on the holes in this, the biggest non-Steph sources of TOs last season were Draymond (non-scorer) and Poole (YG, not OG). Last night it was Kuminga (YG). So I hear your frustration, but I don't buy your explanation.
Our season would look way better if Steph didn't take a nosedive since Dray got suspended. Thankfully, we've been playing some pretty bad teams, but against the better teams, he hasn't showed up.
Clips - 5/17 and 3/13 from 3
Nuggs - 7/21 and 3/13 from 3
Heat - 3/15 and 2/8 from 3
He also went 8/24 and 4/15 from 3 against the Suns in the game Dray got suspended when there was no KD and only 11 min of Okogie.
He did show up against the Celtics so there's that.
Steph will miss shots. That's bound to happen sometimes. But I would love if he didn't look so disengaged (at least to me).
I'm purty sure Steph got a real blingy set of golf clubs for Xmas. If the NBA is his wife, he’s having a sultry affair with golf. Sorry Steph, but we saw you cheating, spending time practicing your putts on some god forsaken greens! Come back to the gym! Smell your sneakers! Snap out of it! You’re not Arnold Palmer!
I'm not sure if he's disengaged or more like exhausted
Someone earlier said he had a knee problem. Any info on that?
People been saying he's exhausted for a while. And my response to that is if he's exhausted 31 games into the season, we're done for. I have PTSD from exhaustion after seeing Klay throw up those bricks last year in the playoffs after being so good in the regular season.
According to stats, Curry's averaging 33.4 mins/game, which is the lowest since the 2017-18 season. If he's still tired after playing that many minutes per game, then I'm not sure what to say at this point.
“According to stats” he’s also averaging 30.3 minutes *per Warriors game* — his most since 2016-17, when he was 28.
2017-18: 19.1
2018-19: 28.4
2019-20: 1.7
2020-21: 26.2
2021-22: 27.0
2022-23: 23.7
2023-24; 30.3
So one thing we might say at this point (beyond just, “stuff happens”) is that he’s about to turn 36 and probably needs to mix in a rest game here and there.
Worth noting that the Xmas day egg he laid in Denver came on his 3rd game in 4 days, at 11 am PST, in a low oxygen environment.
Yeah, he had a couple days off to recover between that and the Heat game, but in those days: a plane ride from Denver, plus Christmas gatherings with his three kids and family, plus his zillion other PR obligations as an international megastar.
So I dunno, I’d cut him a little slack and go easy on the “I’m not sure what to say at this point” pearl-clutching.
Truth is, these dudes are old in NBA terms, and I think at those ages it’s not unheard of for players to decline at a relatively fast pace. A lot of us might think, because he’s been amazing often still, that Steph is gonna decline slowly or that he’s a ways off from beginning to, but we can’t be surprised if it’s rapid, because again, he’s an old player at an age where most players in NBA history have become or were washed.
Curry isn’t most players, sure, but there’s no guarantee that he still doesn’t fall off (or at least start stumbling dramatically towards) a cliff. Father Time isn’t predictable that way, or if he is, it’s often in the wrong direction that we’d like.
If it’s indeed exhaustion, maybe it’s time for Kerr to change up the offense so Steph isn’t running around so much. But the exhaustion point is just a theory.
Or potentially a bit nicked up
Something doesn’t feel right... I think a trade is almost inevitable at this point and I do have a feeling JK will be involved. For who? Honestly wouldn’t be able to tell you but if we’re still hovering around .500 in the next 10 games I think it’ll become reality sooner than later.
Who knows though. Maybe getting GP2 and eventually Draymond back kicks us into another gear. Too many maybes though. I have no idea what version of Draymond we will get back.
Doesn't matter, Dray is responsible for most of the bad shit that has happened to this team starting with KD. He is irresponsible for his behavior and to expect anything different from him examining his navel for 3 weeks is bonkers. He ain't gonna change.
KD was out the door. All Draymond did was pull an Uncle Phil on his DJ Jazzy Jeff’s butt
Seriously. While I am fully aware that this is normally just a claim made by douchebags and racists, on that Dray *did* say what everyone else in the building was thinking.
third this. that season was weird right from the beginning with rumors of KD being distanced from the team and maybe leaving.
Now, tell me again how Dray is uninvolved in the punch?
This was a bad loss for the Dubs. I was expecting a different outcome but I now see that we will struggle just to stay in the Play-In column. We seem to be no better than a .500 club in spite of our inspired rookies. The Splash Bros AWOL in two straight games. Kuminga not ready to play this game. Too many slack areas to list. Perhaps the trade machine can be played with to assuage our dismay. But dismay it is. Something must change in our team. Players? Coaches? It's all up in the air and I fear the FO may be suffering some paralysis or denial. The one certainty that I have is that this team is done competing for a ring.
> We seem to be no better than a .500 club in spite of our inspired rookies.
They are a bit better than a .500 caliber team without Draymond, just like in 2021-2022.
Never speak his name again............
I believe it all traces back to Kerr losing sight of the goal, which is WIN A TITLE. Not "WIN A TITLE WITH CURRY, KLAY, and DRAY." Sure, if CKD are playing well, they should play. But once that stopped happening, continuing to prioritize Klay just kicked the legs out from under any pretense of accountability. And toss in the punch and I'm sure the young guns are laughing inside when any of the OG's "instruct" them. The only difference is CP3, who isn't tainted by last season.
So, once you hypocritically betray the "Strength in Numbers" mantra, what do you expect to happen? Why should JK sacrifice his shot at generational wealth just so Klay can be all in his feels, play some undeserved crunch time minutes, and cost the team the game? And so on.
Ever see the movie "Unforgiven"? Its a nice fictionalized account of how everything can collapse, hurting everyone, when the sheriff in town puts accountability aside for some. I know some may see this as a stretch, but this is an issue that matters for every single institution there is. When people see favoritism, nepotism, double-standards, and such, it ramifies through to damage the whole operation. And that, I believe, is what we are seeing here and now.
And it is supremely frustrating because it is 100% predictable and because Klay's brief intensification of defensive attention after he sat, and the team performing better than expected with Dray on suspension, shows that the whole fiasco could have been avoided if only Coach Kerr had done his job. But like a parent who wants to be friends with one of their kids instead of enforce appropriate standards fairly, Kerr has often abdicated his responsibility. And, in my opinion, the title window is starting to close in large part because of that. Maybe a new coach, untainted by that history, and with a different relation to the players on the roster, could make next year better. But, maybe not.
You don't mention the mindless support of Lacob on WIN NOW and the core being forever Dubs.
Parade day speeches are about emotion, not strategy. And when Lacob speaks publicly, that's pretty much what you get. So I don't hold that against anyone.
The more relevant point is that accountability does not mean you can't WIN NOW. In fact, accountability is your surest path TO win now. Further, accountability does not mean you have to trade vets whose role has to diminish for the team to have a chance to win. Starters/finishers don't typically play 48 minutes. There is a role for declining yet still savvy and capable vets, IF they will accept it. Their ability to accept it is not fully in a coach/GM's control, but their ability to accept it does depend somewhat on how you do it. But the past is prologue here. If the Dubs operate with a double-standard (as they have), they make it that much harder for a declining vet to accept a new, diminished but still important role. What person, having once been treated as above the rules, would easily accept becoming subject to them while others ascend to the unaccountable spot they formerly occupied? Not many.
I'm not yet convinced Curry is not our present and immediate future leader. Everyone else from the last Championship is expendable. But we can't and should not pull the whole rug from underneath his tired feet. He is the only player we have that is single handedly capable of winning a game. So, in light of that, can he survive without his past partners? Is he willing to pave the way for the next wave? make sacrifices for the team? I've seen no indication of this except his talk of winning a ring again. He must realize his chances are slim as they stand.
I am with you. I do not think Curry is in the same category as Dray and Klay. Curry is still playing well enough to be the #1 on a championship team. If coach would cut back his minutes to save him more for the playoffs, and play the young guns so the team wins some games, the whole league would be talking about the renaissance by the bay.
Last year, when the OG's led the league in +/-, that was the argument to keep playing them and sit the young guns. Well, now the stats have reversed. The OG's are not just blowing leads (like they did last year), they are performing consistently and statistically worse than the young guns. If last year's stats justified keeping the starting and finishing line-ups as they were--and that's what many said--then this year's stats demand the starting/finishing line-ups change.
But Kerr can't see it, not consistently.
Alright another trade scenario:
Chris Paul, Jonathan Kuminga, CoJo (for salary matching purposes), and a lightly protected 1st round pick
For
Demar Derozan (expiring), Patrick Williams
I read the post and when it got dramatically to DeMar DeRozan I literally laughed out loud
Derozan is about the last guy that would save our season with the problems we have, disgusting trade.
There is no saving this season.
So let's throw away a young player with value and picks for Derozan sounds good.
“Lets throw away a young player with value”
We’re the ones getting Patrick Williams back
No comment.