169 Comments

France stunned by Latvia, eliminated from men's hoops World Cup: https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/38270643/france-stunned-latvia-eliminated-men-hoops-world-cup

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Without Porzingis, no less. Harsh toke!

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vachement degolas!

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*dégueulasse

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Merci. My French has become degueulasse.

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Somehow I missed that the training camp schedule was posted at the beginning of August.

https://www.nba.com/warriors/news/warriors-2023-preseason-schedule-20230802

36 days till camp starts (Oct 2).

41 days till the first preseason game (Oct. 7)

Gah. That still seems very far off.

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Slater in a 90 minute season preview with the Dunc’d On podcast:

https://nateduncannba.com/podcast-episodes/golden-state-warriors-2023-24-season-outlook-with-anthony-slater/

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RemovedAug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023
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> Slater and Dunc comment on the attitude adjustment needed by Dubs fans: They dynasty probably ‘ended’ with the title in Boston, and it’s just ‘gravy’ if they make the Playoffs from now on.

I haven’t listened to the podcast, but if this is accurate, it’s pretty laughable. ‘Gravy’ would be another chip. Even in a disastrous year with many games missed by top players they still made the playoffs and made it to the second round.

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I think they(Slater and Dunc) were addressing fans like you.😇

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

> Would CP3 unlock Klay’s post-injury form?

Despite a slow start and an admittedly disappointing playoff run, in many respects Klay just completed one of the best years of his career. Doesn’t mean CP3 can’t be good for him, but the small-sample size revisionist history that Klay sucked last year must be challenged.

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Thank. You.

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RemovedAug 28, 2023·edited Aug 28, 2023
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> Klay has lost half a step, especially on defense. Guards blow by Klay now, and we are accustomed to seeing him guard 1-4 with lateral quickness and fleet of foot. No longer.

Klay is stronger and plays better positional defense. I think it's possible he's a better defender now than he was in the past, with the caveat that he really can't guard quick 1s anymore, he needs to slide down where his increased strength can be an asset. Lineups with GP2 taking on that assignment, Steph taking on the shooting guard, and Klay sliding down to a wing make a lot of sense.

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Stat's do not always equal winning basketball. Klay lost a step on D but played the same way and was way more selfish on the otherside.

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OT: This lengthy comment about what went wrong with the Dubs and JP last year, supposedly informed by an insider, lines up pretty well what I (and I infer from comments several others here) have suspected:

https://old.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/15xt46l/does_anyone_else_feel_relief_we_got_off_jps/jx8endz/

Definitely worth a read, and if even partially true, does not reflect all that well on Jordan.

Apologies if this has been posted already, I didn't see it linked here yet, but I may have missed it.

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I felt towards the end of the season that some of Klay's I'll advised chucking could be related to Poole's. As in, if the ball moves around and finds it's way to Poole he'll take a stupid shot ... And a stupid shot from Klay >> stupid shot from Poole.

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Again, another ‘I heard from a friend of a friend who works with so and so’ story. You take all this with a grain of salt. Basically, it’s all rumors. And who is this ‘TheRed_Knight’ person anyway?

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TheRed_Knight is a fairly well-known but maybe not that popular commenter on /r/NBA, who regularly points out officiating errors in the Dubs disfavor, with details and comparisons to (non-)calls going the other way. When I put my homer goggles on, I agree with him over the half the time on those.

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I don't believe the "Poole came to camp out of shape" part at all. I think it's very possible he worked on the wrong things last summer but he's a notoriously hard worker and I don't recall them limiting his minutes in preseason or anything.

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Yeah, I take this in the same from the same vein as a bar buddy taking stuff. It also conforms to the "Poole was the fundamental issue for last year", which *could* be true but is an awfully convenient explanation given he's gone.

I wouldn't be surprised if it circles around some truth, but I'm not gonna use it to prove anything.

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What’s really sad for the Dubs is that JP actually decreased his value and desirability across the league with his selfish play. Isn’t selfish play supposed to make your stats look better so that more teams think you’re an awesome player? Didn’t happen for JP. The Dubs should’ve traded him last offseason while his value was high.

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I always thought that the video with no sound was unfair to Draymond because it made it look like the hidden security footage we see for vicious assaults like Ray Rice so it primed people to react like that was what he did. But shit, Poole might have had it coming, we don't know what he said during that confrontation or before it. As Matt Barnes once said, "violence is never the answer, but sometimes it is". The fans will never know enough to say whether it was or was not here, but I will say I've read some rumors that said some similar things regarding some of those details.

People felt that the Warriors were going soft on Draymond with the punishment but it's very possible that Poole (who had influence on what the punishment was) knew that his teammates wouldn't respect him for harshly punishing Draymond for something he was mostly responsible for which is why he "allowed" Draymond back quickly. I distinctly remember Moses Moody saying "I support their decision, ready to get our OG back" when the suspension was up. Certainly didn't sound like a fearful young kid who was traumatized at what Draymond did, sounded like someone who didn't condone the punch but understood why it happened.

I truly believe that Poole was the biggest cause of their road woes last year. Incredibly selfish play and I reached my limit watching him at some point in the regular season. Get him the fuck out of here imo, hopefully he can mature on a different team and be a more team-oriented player but it was never going to happen on a team that had no starting spot to offer him.

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

Why was there a video of the locker room interactions anyway? Do they always video warriors in their locker room? I never understood that.

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IIRC It wasn’t in a locker room? Was open gym or something?

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It was in the gym. And after the Punch, Poole picked himself up and finished his workout.

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Not sure, thanks.

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Appreciate you putting this out here for discussion, but this is definitely 90%+ BS. Just piece by piece:

I doubt Poole thought he earned a permanent starting spot after half a year of good play, and if he did I doubt it actually caused friction.

Steph coming off the bench was not a message to Poole. You don’t use playoff games to send a message to teammates, you’re too busy trying to win.

If there were concerns about Poole’s circle we would have had 8000 gossip columns about that instead of dumb rumors about an excessively expensive date.

If Poole came into camp out of shape and not worked on anything we would have had 8000 gossip columns about that.

I inherently do not trust any take on what lead to the punch, until it comes from the actual people involved. There’s been too many people with “insider sources” saying entirely different and clearly false things.

Poole was on an objective level not playing more “selfishly” than he had in the past. He didn't take shots he wasn’t taking literally the year before, and he wasn’t passing less than before. He just didn't make the shots at the same percentage and had some turnovers.

Poole was clearly not intentionally sabotaging the second unit at the beginning of the season. That’s just a baffling take that’s not even worth entertaining.

Blaming poole for the team taking quick shots only makes sense if the team only took shots when Poole was playing. This was not the case.

I don’t even know what the comment about Kerr reworking the second unit for Poole even means? I don’t know what rotation changed this would be referring to.

If Kerr wanted to play Jerome over Poole, he would’ve played Jerome over Poole. Kerr’s not afraid not to.

Yes Poole got targeted by the kings and had his minutes slashed. Why would he not be frustrated about that. I want my players to be frustrated about being targeted and having their minutes cut, it’d be concerning if they were ok with that.

It’s not news that Steph’s speech was probably at least partially directed at Poole.

I don’t think Poole got reamed for that shot, and if he did he didn’t deserve it. Do I wish he stepped in? Sure. Doesn’t make it the wrong shot. Everyone’s favorite guard they wish was a Warrior Haliburton said it was a good shot and the right shot.

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So it’s 100% BS, but your completely unfounded (and very certain) assertions are somehow supposed to be more credible?

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Which assertions? Me saying Poole didn’t play more selfishly than before, or that he wasn’t sabotaging the second unit? I don’t think thats a particularly controversial take.

I’ll give you saying that I don’t think Poole got reamed for taking the shot is as founded as them saying he was, but i think its fair to have the baseline be that something didn’t occur unless its actually reported on and not just a post on reddit.

Everything else is me saying why those claims seem dubious to me. If you take issue with any of them call it out specifically, don’t just try to put me down.

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

> I doubt Poole thought he earned a permanent starting spot after half a year of good play, and if he did I doubt it actually caused friction.

I dunno, I read something during the 2021-2022 season suggesting that he was complaining a lot behind the scenes about this. I recall WarriorsWorld posting something about this during that season too. Not to mention the Steph Curry coming off the bench thing which seemed like it was aimed directly at Poole. To me this is the rumor in that post I'm most confident has truth to it, as far as the fight stuff who knows.

I was saying last summer that it was inevitable that Poole was getting traded due to that inherent tension, that was partially informed by those rumors.

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This is like a Telenovela that gets dragged out, episode by episode.

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Maybe, but if I’m Steph/Klay/Kerr and Poole is saying he wants the starting spot I view it at him being motivated, but regard its seriousness as like a fly in my ear. Like if Poole thinking he should start is actually causing friction that is wild to me.

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Curry and Klay might have regarded it as not worthy of attention, but I doubt Poole did. And I think Kerr took it very seriously which is why he wasn't really able to coach Poole hard last season.

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What makes you say Kerr wasn’t able to coach Poole hard last season?

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He’s very immature.

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I don't get nor care for all the whisperings and insinuations about Jordan Poole from god-knows-who and their great-great grandfathers. Jordan Anthony Poole was a Golden State Warrior and a champion while he was here, that should be enough. And enough already.

How about taking, at face value, the words of two people who might know a thing or two?

Stephen Curry: " I felt like I needed to come on here and just say - JP how much I appreciated the four years, brother. You're a champion. You grew up right in front of everybody's face in terms of, you know, that first year where it was rough, a lot of injuries, just trying to find your way, to going to the G-League and coming back and helping us finish 15-5 down the stretch of your second year, to us winning a championship your third year, and fighting till the end this past year. I can't wait to see you blossom, big fella. I can't wait to see you shine in your own situation. Just looking forward to competing, obviously with being a fan of everything you become. Good luck to you."

Klay Thompson: "It hurts to see Jordan go. That's the nature of the beast that is this business. JP was homegrown, I saw him put the work in. I saw him go 2-15 in a game, but then he would be in the dungeon after - which is what we call our practice facility because it has no windows, getting shots up right after the game, and that reminded me of my younger self... To see JP follow that same footing, I'm like man this kid is gonna be special, and we wouldn't have won the championship without him. He was so important when Steph went down and we played that series against Denver. So Jordan is forever going to be cherished in the Warriors lore, just for what he did and helped bring us back to where we needed to go, and I know he's going to do great things in Washington... That's like Steph and I's little bro."

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

I saw that on Twitter. He certainly said to take it with a grain of salt and thats what im gonna do. I think there has been some truth reported that Poole wanted to start. As for the rest, Just believe teams had film on Poole and i Dont believe he was good enough to make the proper in-season adjustments.

The reason i don’t buy most of it is what Steph and Iguodala and Klay have said about Poole throughout the off-season. Theyve been highly complimentary of him. If half that report is even true guarantee they don’t go out of their way to say all those nice things about Jordan especially Iguodala who is pretty much retired

*EDIT also:

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/steph-curry-jordan-poole-klay-thompson/1645318/

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They have to be complimentary in public. I don't think that says very much about how they truly felt one way or another.

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Wow, if true these examples are quite serious. I've also gotten some "friend of a friend of a friend who works for the team" that point Poole in a negative light, but it's so far removed that I don't put much weight on it. On the optimistic side, if those things are true, it sounds like this season may have a lot less stress and conflict associated with it.

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deletedAug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023
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What's a bag?

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Any amount?

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It may very well be mostly or all BS, but reasons to 'sign him to a bag' are discussed at the link and likely correct:

>> Warriors were going to sign Poole to a big extension regardless, either he overperforms

>> and its a cheap for his production, or he doesnt and the team can flip him to add

>> salary (since were capped out this was the loophole the team found around it)

JP tanking his value the way he did last year was likely considered a lower-probability outcome, but the Dubs still got CP3 out of it. That was not going to be possible without extending Poole, all they could have gotten in a trade were draft picks and small contracts.

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Dray was never going anywhere else.

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OT: Did anyone watch Lester Quinones in the Fiba World Cup, Dominican Republic v.s. host Gilas Philippines? He played 15 minutes; 2pts, 3r, 1stl, 1tov, and was +6 in a 87-81 win. Set a record for highest Fiba World Cup attendance ever, 38k.

It was mostly KAT and Jordan Clarkson on offense for their respective teams. Clarkson reminded me of another Jordan we know, overdribbling, forcing it into trouble, out of control, hoping to get bailed out. Player A: 15.9pts / 3.4ast / 2.7reb / 0.8stl / 0.2blk / 33.8% on threes / $11.5M

Player B: 15.8pts / 2.6ast / 3.4reb / 0.7stl / 0.2blk / 33.9% on threes / $27.5M

The highlight was seeing 6 time PBA MVP and 9 time PBA champ 6'10 Jun Mar Fajardo play a Looney-esque game. Slow but perfect, 16pts on 5 shots, 7 rebounds, +3 in the loss while matching up against Towns. (A= JC, B=JP)

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Player A: 54% true shooting, stats include all of his prime years 22-30

Player B: 56.4% true shooting, stats include his age 20-23 seasons

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Im sorry Sab i wasnt trying to go Sleepy on your post gods truth.

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

Fwiw, I thought your post was sufficiently insightful, informative, and respectful to Sab to qualify as “going Sleepy.” 😊

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An Excellent In-Depth Examination of Moses Moody's Defensive Development Over The Course Of His Career.

https://theswishtheory.com/nba/2023/08/the-defensive-growth-of-moses-moody/

It pleases me that my eye test clocking of Moody's defensive improvement was accurate.

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Thanks for posting this. It was really informative. Would love to see the same kind of analysis of Jonathan Kuminga.

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

Yeah that would be fantastic.

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Damn JZ, I should have bet on that one. You watching the Anderson fight later?

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Also just saw the Nico Ali replay. God that kid stinks. I hate how they are pushing him because

Of the name. I think a coked up Julio Cesar Chavez Jr is more skilled than this kid.

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I wish you guys would put an OT in front of your comments when you start a discussion about fighting. That way some of us would know not to read it and try to figure out what it’s all about. Thnx

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Will that apply to people posting about soccer as well?

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

Alright that was the best ive seen him but this was a step down in competition. Last fight he got wobbled twice

*EdIt Didnt realize Rudenkos losses were against opponents who were 121-1. So I guess ill take it back although i think Martin is really good

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For sure a step down, but the guy he really wants to fight (Fury) has been ducking him for over a year

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Missed the Usyk fight. These body shots from Jared wow. Still dont think hes the next great American heavyweight though.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)

Great read as always, thank you. I have reviewed several of the standouts, but hadn't heard of Duop and many of the honorable mentions, so definitely looking forward to new candidates to research.

Lamar Steven: I agree that getting him on a two-way would be a coup for the same reason it's improbable; he 'probably' can get a regular roster spot. He would bring 2 years of solid nba experience as a wing defender, even if he's limited in other aspects

Harry Giles and Usman Garuba: I'd be happy with either as positions of need with developmental possibilities. Part of the reason I'm less worried about Harry Giles' health is b/c for better or worse, two ways can be waived pretty easily and the main cost to the team would be opportunity cost.

Aaron Wiggins would also be great, but word on the street amongst OKC commenters is that he's probably going to make the cut. On the flip side, Jeremiah Robinson Earl is pretty far down the depth chart and OKC seems to have locked in their two-ways.

Amongst guys that currently available, a few additional names that didn't have an excerpt that I thought were at least interesting include:

- https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Anthony-Lamb/Summary/87247

- https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Mamadi-Diakite/Summary/76392

- https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Michael-Foster-Jr/Summary/126844

- https://basketball.realgm.com/player/RJ-Hampton/Summary/11736

- https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Quinndary-Weatherspoon/Summary/83967

- https://basketball.realgm.com/player/TyTy-Washington-Jr/Summary/135606

I've been wondering if there are specifics stats or things people keep track of when reviewing G-League/undrafted prospects. I haven't figured this out myself and my tape watching is rudimentary.

Side notes:

- I like what Denver did with two-ways from the standpoint of getting bodies to help in the regular season. They picked off two of my favorites right after summer league.

- What do you think Gui Santos should work on going into next year?

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author

Much appreciated, thank you for the comment.

I usually just watch a lot of G League basketball over the years so I get familiar with guys through that. The GL’s website and RealGM have some good resource for stats and info. I also like social accounts like GleagueTV and LeagueHim who will highlight guys.

Completely agree with you on Denver. While I am extremely skeptical of their depth being a mix of rookies, unproven sophomores, and washed veterans, they absolutely nailed their two-ways. Key and Huff can be impactful players off the rip and Gillespie is a good flier.

For Gui I think the tools are there he just needs more polish through game time to fine tune those skills. Consistent shooting, quicker decision making, and better defensive effort.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)

As I said before, thanks! I still remember stumbling on one of your guides a couple years ago and appreciating how it was both approachable and appropriately in-depth, while being warriors specific. It hit the niche!

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)

So, are we assuming Gui has no shot at one of the two-ways?

I'm surprised how he's disappeared from the Warriors conversation, despite a pretty solid outing in summer league.

His defense in summer league wasn't spectacular. Other than that, I thought he played quite well. I'm hoping this training camp derby they seem to be planning on results in him getting a two-way.

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author

I plan on writing a explainer on Santos’s situation in the near future but essentially his contract status in Brazil limits the Warriors to only signing him to the 15-man roster.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)

Ah, I forgot about that problem. They can't buy out his contract with Minas? if he doesn't get a full roster spot.

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deletedAug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)
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He can always play in Santa Cruz even if on the 15 man roster, though most would probably consider that a waste of a roster spot.

Quite common for young players (Wiseman, Moody, Poole being previous examples).

But, Gui's probably not such a prospect that they feel they want to lock him up by giving him a main roster contract. They'd have done so by now if they were worried about him getting poached.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)

I could be wrong but I don't think he can be poached, because they had and presumably still have his draft rights. What I'm not sure is the status of rights going into next season if he 1) plays for Minas or G-League vs 2) plays on a two-way.

On the one hand, imho, he's not quite ready to contribute. On the other hand, his skillset (ballhandling wing and decent looking stroke) is such that if a couple things click, I could see him being worth trying to bring in next year on a multi-year deal.

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That rings a bell. I think this came up before. Unfortunately, my memory seems to have disappeared.

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He should be ready next year which more than makes up for us not having a draft pick

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Aug 26, 2023Liked by Perks (GSWCBA)

Got in too late for the poll, but my vote would have been for the last-place candidate, Reath. Though a bit slow of foot, he can defend, rebound and shoot the three and seems to also be a decisive roller and be aware of where his teammates are for passes, though the highlights don't show anything special on that front. But size, shooting, and experience are what we need and Reath has all three plus apparently that availability thing.

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San Antonio Spurs (barring injuries) would have been set for years to come. SMH

@SIChrisMannix

That none of the cap space teams offered Austin Reaves $100 million over four this summer is looking dumber by the day. Lakers getting Reaves back for $56 million an outrageous bargain.

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I think Reaves from the start said that he wanted to stay with the Lakers. Maybe, that discouraged other teams. But you’re right, Lakers got a great bargain.

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Imo he's a better player (and two years younger) than Jaylen Brown, who got 5/$304M.

Somewhat apples and oranges, since Jaylen's more of a 3-4 (and much more athletic and physical) where Reaves is a wily, wiry two-guard. But I'd probably take Reaves over Brown given equal contracts.

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Dang, I was about to argue with you until I considered it more carefully. I think you might very well be right if Reaves can maintain his post All Star Break performance.

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The fact nobody even tried to offer him with that contract the only one hanging out there is borderline criminal. I didn't get it at the time and I don't get it now.

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It's not even similar to Looney, whose skillets fit amazingly well with the W's but aren't what you'd necessarily buy in other team contexts

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USA up 45 to 36 over New Zealand at the half.

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Pulling away now.

Very impressed by Banchero today, along with the usual suspects (Ant, JJJ, Ty, Reaves, e.g.) Still can't figure out why Portis is on the team, tho. He's like an unskilled man among superskilled boys.

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I really didn't see a whole lot of super skilled players on the USA team last night. With the exception of Reaves and Brunson, and of course Banchero, the team was very flat through most of the game. This is no dream team.

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Aug 27, 2023·edited Aug 27, 2023

Edwards seemed to be playing hero ball. It seemed like there wasn’t a ball he wouldn’t shoot. I didn’t see, but I was curious how many assists the team had.

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I’m talking relative to Bobby Portis, not relative to peak MJ.

Edwards, JJJ, Haliburton, and co. are a qualitatively higher caliber of player.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023

100% on both counts. In addition to what you wrote regarding Portis, he really is past his prime. I'd put it down to team chemistry and wanting a seasoned vet among the young pros. I expect his playing time will be heavily matchup dependent and dwindle as the competition ramps up.

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A seasoned vet who’s the only one in the team with a championship ring.

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Helloooooo,

Anyone watching FIBA game?

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While I am not really very educated about his game/strengths, I like rooting for LQ. But, is it a bad sign that he played only 15 minutes for the DR team (scoring 0 pts)? If we are hoping he can contribute in the NBA, shouldn't he now be at least a top player for the Dominican? Or, is it just that the other players have a lot of experience together and by being in the NBA/g league LQ doesn't have the team chemistry yet?

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To be fair to LQ, he only shot the ball 4 times (2 pts) and the DR team brilliant game plan for the most part was simply "give the ball to Karl-Anthony Towns". Unfortunate for the Phillippines that Jordan Clarkson fouled out, they had a chance to win this.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023

OT: Sources: QB Trey Lance dealt from 49ers to Cowboys for 4th-rounder: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38259989/qb-trey-lance-dealt-49ers-cowboys-4th-rounder

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Actually alot higher than i thought they were gonna get. Thought they were getting a 6th or a 7th. The Arizona Cardinals just traded their own first round pick (8th) from the 2020 draft for a conditional 7th. Man Covid really played havoc with all these teams’ scouting.

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I wonder what a retrospective would reveal. I'd guess Covid was really disruptive, but I don't know if it would show up as bigger whiffs than usual given how sparse the dataset is. Instead, hearing from a bunch of FO across sports would be more useful I think

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*Trey Wiseman

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I was waiting for that to happen but a 3rd pick in the 1st round for a 4th round pick? Doesn't make any sense to me.

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Underwhelming prospects loses value really fast in the NFL. Sometimes teams wouldn’t even get draft picks for these guys. A 5th-7th is the usual realistic compensation

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Unless it was a cap dump, which I don't think it was, he would have been more valuable as a 3rd backup until a better trade could be arranged. Something doesn't add up here.

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A 3rd overall for a 4th rounder makes no sense before the realities play out... But at some point, if the guy's performance is what you might expect from a 4th rounder, that's all you are going to get.

NBA has plenty of similar stories, like an Anthony Bennett who goes first overall but essentially carries zero or negative trade value throughout his very short career.

On one hand what's done is done, on the other I do agree that trading so much draft capital for a guy who honestly I have never even seen a college highlight reel of that looked impressive, is a move that warrants a lot of criticism. If this niners team doesn't win a SB in the next few years, it won't be too hard of an argument to pinpoint that trade-up as the reason why.

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I don't follow football or the Niners that closely but I thought it was a dumb move at the time as the Niners had a capable QB in Jimmy G, at least when he was healthy. At least they got more for Lance than they did for C.J. Beathard.

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I have no inside info on the trade, but I would never have done that. Trey Lance might be struggling a bit, but he is a talented player and worth keeping for a better day. They need a place kicker badly.

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Aug 26, 2023·edited Aug 26, 2023

I'd probably rather they keep Lance too.. but if those with closer experience think he won't be better than Purdy in the next couple of years, it makes sense to move on. I didn't see before your comment that Moody got hurt -- that's not good, with the defensive mindset of the niners an impeccable FG kicker seems necessary, Gould was unbelievable in that role and if Moody is out there is no way they can find someone equivacable.

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*Trey Wiseman

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At least Wise got back Sadiq Bey… I mean 5, count ‘em FIVE 2nd rounders… I mean, a key rotation player from a past (and future) championship team

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LOL.

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