Hahahahaha, but seriously... can you imagine someone less likely to be willing to put up with Westbrook's lack of effort on defense? If Westbrook is still around (which he will be) this is certainly not going to help the locker room drama at all.
Let us presume that Chris Paul has a decent couple of regular seasons left, doesn't go far in the playoffs, and retires. How would you then describe his career?
Sounds like another famous player who played for the Suns... just replace Stephen Curry with Michael Jordan and point guard with forward. Though I'm fairly certain that CP3 will not have the post-NBA career media success that Barkley has had, he's just not funny or likeable enough.
Referring to topic shared by Eric, the popularity of NBA players among not basketball fans, I’d like to give to You a significative example.
During the Finals I found out, thanks a picture, that here in Italy, not so far from my city, it was possible to purchase the celebrative t-shirt of Dubs win of 2016 ( yes, You read well).
Italian mostly follow soccer, few are fans of Italian basketball league, and less of Nba, therefore it was the perfect market where it was possible to sell (I’d rather preferred to burn them, it was really a bad signs, despite I’m not superstitious).
Likely on 2028 here it will possible to buy the green shirts of C’s victory of 2022…😂
Secondo me in Italia si segue più l'NBA che la serie A1. Chiunque segue il basket in Italia sa chi è LBJ o Jordan, ma chiedigli il quintetto di Milano o della Virtus e vedi cosa ti risponde
= In my experience, Italian fans are more into NBA than the Italian League. Every basketball fan knows LBJ or Jordan, but have no idea of Milan or Bologna starting five
Jordan has become a symbol, and it’s absolutely true he is known by everyone, as well as Kobe. On LBJ I have less confidence than You, he hasn’t the same popularity as the other 2.
You know better than me the dichotomy between FIBA and NBA take a lot of followers of Italian league far from NBA ( no defense, always travels, bla bla bla…)
It's funny that you say there are not many Italian NBA fans; I've always felt that of all of our international commenter's origin countries, Italy was probably represented the best on this forum. I could think of like 5 Italian commenters off the top of my head and I think there are more. Maybe DNHQ has just captured an outsized portion of the small Italian NBA community?
I think there are fans strongly committed, despite official media usually ignore NBA, or if they speak about it, make funny mistakes (ex: LBJ plays for LAl Galaxy…); Italian basket blogs help to improve knowledge for people who don’t speak English.
But, if you stop people for an interview in any square of an Italian town, I’m afraid mostly they don’t know Steph, as well KD or any other superstar.
A Bologna in centro compri la maglia di James o Tatum originale. Se giri per tutta la città forse trovi quella di Teodosic ma devi impegnarti. Nei playground vedi solo maglie NBA
Yeah your second paragraph is more what I would expect from a country that has only a handful of current NBA players. Glad that our community here has attracted so many knowledgeable Italian fans though! It's cool to have your perspectives on basketball and the league.
Haha, when I was a kid and found out that the "victory" t-shirts for losing Finals/Superb Owl/World Series teams ended up in other countries I thought it was pretty funny.
I've always thought it would be funny to write a book where one of the characters who came across such a trove of t-shirts as a kid, having no other expose to the NFL at the time, became a devout fan of four time Super Bowl champions, the Buffalo Bills.
“Best player in the game” is precisely as vaguely defined as “Honorary Warriors For Life”, so I won’t get into that but the whole “household name” discussion gave me a new perspective.
In my opinion, each NBA era gets defined by its household name players (and there are only really one or two per era), at least since the 80s. Yes, for NBA nerds, we can dice it fine or asterisk this or that, but for most people it’s:
1980s roughly: Bird and Magic era
1990s: Jordan era
2000s: Kobe and Shaq era
And in the future, this time will be remembered as
2010s: LeBron and Steph era (or Steph and LeBron era)
Which is pretty f’ing amazing considering a few years back we were just grateful his ankle was holding up and annoyed that David Lee got the 2013 All-Star appearance over him
In the Philippines, 100M NBA fans, it's all about these players in this order; Jordan (mostly because of the jumpman logo), Lebron, Kobe, Curry, Irving, Giannis, Wade, Rose (why Rose?)
The most popular team is wherever Lebron plays, 2nd is the recent title winner, then Lakers, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls, Bucks, Heat. PBA teams aren't location specific, so they are accustomed to constantly switching allegiances.
Thanks for sharing! I know the Philippines is a basketball hotbed but wasn't aware of the non-location specific nature of the teams. Do teams tour all the time instead of playing in a "home" arena?
~1/3 of the population, ~30M people, live near Manila, so only a handful of non-playoff games are played outside of the capital region. All playoff games are in Manila, all elimination games Smart Coliseum. I saw the Warriors cheerleaders at an NBA promotional event in a Mall in 2015, but no NBA games have been played here.
I forgot about Rose... also another name I've heard mentioned outside of basketball circles. I also ask why... I can't think of anything aside from the Bulls being an internationally recognized brand (b/c of Jordan).
I bet there's a huge difference as well in national household name and regional household name. Probably in most markets that have a superstar people have heard the name of that player.
Everyone in Salt Lake City knew who Stockton and Malone were back in the 90s. I bet pretty much everyone in OKC knew who Kevin Durant was when he was there. Per another comment, Philadelphia residents were probably at least aware of the name Allen Iverson. Probably the same for Dwayne Wade in Miami, Tim Duncan in San Antonio, Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, Dirk in Dallas, etc.
I think for popularity you can probably divide them up into two tiers:
Top tier: household name nationally. These are the ones Eric listed. There are typically no more than one or two at a time.
Second tier: regional household names. Those in the neighboring state might not know who they are, but it would be difficult not to be aware of them in their own hometown.
I am not sure the 1970s fit the “one name” paradigm…. In the actual 70s, Dr J and Kareem were the most well known, but… I am not sure they are remembered today
Aug 24, 2022·edited Aug 24, 2022Liked by Eric Apricot
Kareem might be remembered because he was in the news for things other than basketball. He was in a Bruce Lee movie, he was active with respect to civil rights, etc. Even changing his name was front page news. Before that era, the only NBA player who probably was a household name was Wilt, even though there were plenty of greats that we'd identify with those eras. Russell probably was better known to the non-fan general public after he retired.
Kareem was widely known for his "sky hook". The NCAA banned dunking after his first season at UCLA it was said due to his dominance. Then 6 NBA championships, and 6 MVP awards...
Russell was quite well known for his streak of championships with the Celtics, 8 straight and 11 total... winning his first as a rookie after 2 college national championships with USF and an Olympic gold medal. Then becoming the first black head coach in NBA history.
You are thinking like a basketball fan and we're talking about the general public. It does not matter what someone accomplished if you don't follow the topic at all. My sister-in-law has no idea what a sky hook is. She probably thinks it's construction equipment. She may have heard of Kareem because he is interviewed on social issues. She only knows Bill Russell from recent years, especially with all the coverage since his death. I wouldn't bet she knows he played for Boston although maybe. I'll ask her just for grins. On the other hand she knows a lot about actors, and I don't.
I certainly remember Dr. J and Kareem... and think we just found out how much Bill Russell is remembered today... when actually Wilt was the "one name" arguably recognizable outside of basketball from the 60s or whenever that was...
Aug 24, 2022·edited Aug 24, 2022Liked by Eric Apricot
I found out a couple years ago that my 30-something half-brother — who graduated from UNC, lives in the world, and has a hoops junkie older brother — had never *heard of* LeBron James.
Also, the world is VERY big. I'm pretty sure cricket has just as many fans as basketball, if not more, but I couldn't name a single cricket player past or present.
It was very educational for me to read all the replies by non-fans about “name a basketball player”. I don’t think I’ve seen Iverson mentioned a single time.
I guess it depends on the demographic. If you're talking suburban areas, maybe not, but you'll definitely have heard of AI if you grew up (or had kids) in the city during the 2000's.
I understand your perspective, as of course AI was a major figure in the NBA. But I’m just saying that in reading dozens of civilian answers to “name 5 basketball players”, literally NO ONE has answered AI. This tells me that our perspective as fans is very bad at guessing what non-fans know. They literally know the names I wrote above. AI, Tim Duncan and even Kevin Durant are completely off the general public radar.
Anyway, check out the twitter threads. I don’t think it’s worth us fans guessing about non-fans further before you look at the anecdotal data.
He's one of my favorite players but I feel he's a tier below in the "household names" rankings. Quiet personality, small market team, very "bland" game... I'd be surprised if even 1 out of 5 non-NBA fans recognize his face.
Tony Parker (ties to Eva Longoria) might be more recognizable to those folks.
I was more thinking that "player of an era" referred more to which guys dominated the decade. If it's based on offhand casual knowledge, I think Iverson is right up there with Kobe
And I bet most non-sports fan never heard of Kobe until his tragic death. We fans tend to not realize how little non-fans are aware of the world of basketball.
Yeah man but non fans DON'T CARE. My mother probably heard of Wilt and MJ and that's it. Maybe Kobe because of the crash but I wouldn't bet on it. She doesn't know and she doesn't care. And she played HS basketball right after WW2.
Any legs to the observation Stephen A Smith made this morning about hearing from “too many people” that Jonathan Kuminga lacks focus and discipline in terms of the way he carries himself off court? I’m going to be honest I have no clue what exactly SAS is referencing. Is it his preparation? Is it his lifestyle?
For me, it's something to keep an eye on but not really that worrisome yet. I remember Steph saying something along the lines of "when I was that age, I was just looking for frat parties". I know it feels like sweeping the problem under the rug, especially with an equally young but more mature Moody on the same team, but I really do feel like "he's not even 20" is really all it is... for now.
I think there's focus and discipline, which Kuminga has, and then there's NBA SUPERSTAR LEVEL FOCUS AND DISCIPLINE, which it seems he has not yet shown. I'll buy that. One of my theories is that the challenge has not been appropriate to his abilities. It's like me prepping for a sixth grade math test. Sure, I could review the material, but I have the confidence/arrogance to presume I don't need to bother. I suspect the same is true for Kuminga. A challenge for the coaching staff is to put him in pressure situations where he learns just how important the work is. Because we all, including him, know that hard work pays off. But it's one thing when that's theoretical and another when they say "This series you'll be guarding Giannis and we need you to slow him down and score 25 a game." Now that would wake him up... And we've also seen even with hardworking superstars that they need to learn what true hard work is. Apparently both Steph and Klay learned to commit themselves on defense at the 2014 FIBA. If true, it illustrates the point that we might think we're working hard, but there's a next level. Kuminga needs that moment, is my take.
That’s pretty much why he fell to 7 in the draft. Jarrett Jack was pointed in that comparison in a podcast comparing Green and Kuminga’s work habits. So it goes back a ways.
Draymond made the note that Kuminga had to learn to work early in the season. Moody’s professionalism showed out comparatively.
Based on what he was able to do last year, I think he kicked his work habits to a good place in season. I’m guessing he’s probably not yet there on his own time. Hopefully that piece turns on sooner than later.
Why was Kuminga playing summer league at all if he didn't need the work? (Hint: He does need the work. He's talented but he's not THAT damn good yet. He wasn't effortlessly outshining everybody in summer league.) If he's not going to work, sit down.
I am wondering why the staff seemed to think that getting Kuminga to learn ‘to see the floor’, which he does not do well, was a good thing to learn at that level of competition. I am wondering if the only way to learn the basics is by playing NBA full speed basketball? Didn’t work for year 1 Wise, did it? I’m not a basketball player, so I don’t know.
Not if you’re cross training something that’s your current role. Sure it’s a chaotic environment, but getting reps at a slower pace provides a building block for the raw skills you’ll need in high level competition.
It’s not. It’s like knowing you’re that much better than your competition. Sure maybe that speaks to maturity issues on his approach to the game but I mean the guy usually looked like one of the best players on the court when he was engaged.
IMO That’s sort of like my saying I’m a professional singer so if I go sing with a community chorus I don’t have to bother to sing well. We can choose to use every opportunity to improve and more importantly, to contribute……or not.
KISS was famous for performing amazing sets in front of big concert crowds, but not very good in recording studio. Is completely unreasonable to expect top performance from people all the time regardless of the situation.
KISS is a great example of this variance. So is Blue Oyster Cult. So is Lauryn Hill. So is Deep Purple. So is MGMT. Many artists aren't always as good in concert as their top level of capability.
Yes, and that has nothing to do with work ethic OR capability. It has to do with where you are comfortable. The studio is a very different environment than the stage. Some people thrive in the relative calm and perhaps more clinical studio environment and can handle the stress of perfectly nailing a take but don't like the stress of touring. Others prefer the high-wire act of live performance and need a live audience. Some love both.
I think that's wishful thinking. Few athletes or musicians give the same level of effort for every performance. Some stages are just smaller and the effort exerted won't be the same as for a larger showcase. I don't see that as a problem, either.
Yes, one cannot bring the same energy always. But hopefully Someone does not routinely walk around like they’re shopping at Macy’s (Seadubs Dec. 3) when there is a smaller stage/spotlight. If you watched him in person in the G league last fall then you know what I’m talking about. It also seems to be an ethical position…not bothering to contribute. Honestly he reminds me of what a friend of mine who is a psychologist of a college students said. She said this generation, the social media generation, has very little idea of who they are because they are so busy trying to manipulate how they are perceived. But then none of us knows the guy so it’s all guesswork.
Yeah, this is laughably false. You aren't the only one who here who has taken part in athletics and you are definitely not the only one here who has observed others perform. Your experience is not universal. I've seen enough athletes run out the clock in professional sports competition when the stakes are low over the course of many decades to call total BS on this claim. We see NBA players give half effort every single season in games that are not as meaningful to them. Some have made almost an art form out of it. You can easily point out many instances of this on pretty much every team, guys just running out the clock. You can say "I don't like it" but don't for a second try to claim it doesn't happen. It happens all the time, and the most talented and most accomplished stars are often the most egregious examples.
Similarly, I've been present at many concerts where big-name and accomplished artists just don't try as hard or give as much of a fuck as they would for a bigger or more meaningful show. Some bands DO play just as well no matter who they are performing for; I saw OK GO once at a festival and although I'm not a fan of their work, they won me over due to the effort they put into their live set. They aren't the norm though. I've seen far more artists like Lauryn Hill, whose music I quite enjoy but is notorious for giving very sub-par performances at shows she doesn't care about very much.
You say Elite athletes and performers are separated from us by their "passion and willpower" and I say that's total bunk, too. The hardest workers in life are often not the people with the most wealth or accomplishments. What separates elite performance from the rest of us is talent, first and foremost. Many performers who are not as talented as the top of the top have plenty of passion and endless willpower. They might give 100% at every single opportunity and never make it to the big time. Conversely, many athletes and performers blessed with more talent than anyone else on earth aren't necessarily the workers that work the hardest. When you have more talent than everyone else, you don't always have to give 100% to beat them. Many athletes and performers don't push it to the limit every time they go out there. Not everyone is like Steph Curry, and even Steph has his lackadaisical moments where he isn't 100% locked in.
This. I’m a (mostly retired) professional musician, 50+ years in the business. To get beyond the bar band scene and play concert tours and major studio recording sessions requires a high level of discipline, skill, and dedication. You are expected to be consistent excellent, but more important, you deliver every time you perform because it’s who you are. But sometimes it takes talented young players a few years and the right mentor or situation to realize what it takes and find the internal discipline to do it.
Definitely legs to this claim by SAS, but should we be worried about it? I’m thinking no. The guy is young, so he’s going to get things wrong in terms of preparation and commitment. He’s still learning. And he may never learn to be as committed as JP, as reliable as Moody, or in love with the game as Wise is. He is so physically talented, he can probably not be as good as those guys in those aspects and still be an amazing player (see James Harden as an example)
The one time I thought there was hope was that beautiful lob to James Wiseman for a dunk in summer league this summer. Seeing them playing together (synergy) with that level of skill was both surprising and encouraging.
The fact he was in Spain, presumably visiting relatives and on vacation, a few weeks after Summer League makes me wonder a bit. He needs to be working on his defense (with coaches) every chance he gets.
I suspect that it's going to limit his ceiling significantly, unfortunately. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
He's still 19 so he is still young enough where he can turn it around (assuming the reports are accurate and not just misunderstanding him which could be possible although we saw the "attitude" issues when he didn't try in the G-League so I believe the reports).
However I think some people say "he's 19, who cares" like it is guaranteed to fix itself as he gets older and I don't think that is true, or at least I don't think it is guaranteed to happen with the Warriors. Sometimes players need to be "humbled" on a team for them to thrive on another team, but the Warriors need to reach Kuminga now while he's still on the team.
I've just never met anyone who wasn't a worker and then became one. You either are, or you're not.
I realize that projecting from normal life to NBA basketball is a little suspect, and he will have the right mentoring and resources to get there. Like I say, I hope I'm wrong.
But, I think he has a little bit of the Ben Simmons, "I'm so good I can use my brother as a shooting coach" overconfidence in him.
Wanna know how it happened? Too bad. I’m gonna tell you anyway. I worked closely for several years with a couple of incredibly competitive and dedicated hard workers.
Did I say anything about his shot? I said he needed to work on defense.
If he's in NY, working on defense, then great.
Hanging out with Kyrie putting up shots is not so great. I'd rather see him in the Bay Area, with Poole or Moody or Steph, working on that.
HIs offense is fine. What's keeping him off the court is knowing the defense, and I don't see how he gets better at that in NY.
To contrast, Poole had a video where he was working on strength training that someone commented on was related to staying in his defensive stance.
And, no I'm not making it up. There have been several reports by media that cover the Warriors that he doesn't work hard enough, and there is plenty of video that shows he sometimes checks out.
I hope I'm wrong, and I hope he comes back with better defense (or at least a little more effort on that end). We'll see.
The TL';DR version of this is I'd rather see him working on his weaknesses, not his strengths.
Is this not also up to the team to make it clear what their expectations are, when he should be working with other team members, etc.??? A Doctor who works with the Warriors told me after he finished treating one player, a physical therapist and two psychologists came in to work with that player. Seems like the Warriors have staff to help JK mature into his best self.
It is consistent with other stuff we have heard, in fact I don't even know if he is hearing new stuff or just hearing the same stuff we have heard. Heard stuff from Monte Poole, Andre Iguodala, Draymond Green, probably more I am forgetting.
It definitely seems to be a concern. They need Iguodala back.
“Some of the foolishness. I'm not getting in his personal business. I'm not saying nothing like that. I'm talking attitude, I'm not talking actions. I'm saying that attitude, the level of focus, commitment, determination, just putting your head down. doing the work.”
Repeating…JK is n NY at Prada, not on the court practicing with JP…..work ethic?
Yeah I mean I heard what he was saying but in one sentence he said he’s not talking ‘actions’ which would imply that he’s not demonstrating anything outwardly to reflect a lack of focus but ‘doing the workI’ would suggest that his ‘actions’ are not commensurate with what’s needed to make that leap from year 1 to year 2
I'm not going to claim that SAS doesn't have any sources as he does seem to be plugged in with some players and some team staffers and execs. That being said, I'll believe these rumors when they are reported by someone like Thompson or Slater. The kid is still not of legal drinking age and we see this too often in NBA (and general sports) reporting where youth and inexperience are painted as a lack of focus and discipline.
We get this same thing with Wiseman too with the random reporting that he isn't really into basketball, when all reports from the team and from reporters plugged in with the team seem to indicate the exact opposite. The fact that national guys like SAS don't have to share their sources mean that we don't know if these rumors even come from someone currently with the Warriors or not.
I believe Iguodala referenced it in his podcast with Kerr. And Draymond mentioned it in a press conference earlier in the season. There's other stuff but I can't remember off the top of my head right now.
I agree that the Wiseman stuff seems unfounded, by all accounts he is a hard worker and very coachable. I'm not sure we've gotten the same message about Kuminga though.
You are conflating statements that aren't really that similar. Draymond spoke of Kuminga's maturity level but framed it positively, saying that JK just needed to have more time around professionals to build the right kind of habits and that he was getting it now. Kerr said something very similar in his Point Forward appearance. Did not get the sense that either of them were worried about JK's work ethic or saw it as an issue going forward. They (correctly) identified his struggles as that of a young kid who basically taught himself how to play ball and still has a lot of room to grow in establishing maturity and good habits. Moses Moody and his comparatively advanced level is the exception as far as 19-year olds go, not the rule.
As far as Monte Poole goes, he is on probation with me as far as I'm concerned after getting it so comically wrong with his forecasting on Jordan Poole last season. That was a hit to his credibility and he needs to re-establish it before I trust his forecasting on a young player, especially when it comes to takes as vague as the one he offered on Kuminga in that podcast.
What does his analysis of Poole as a player where he goes off of feeling have to do with his reporting on Kuminga where he cites team sources? Those seem like entirely separate categories, I get having negative feelings toward the guy (I don't fuck with Poole for reasons I will not get into on here) but while I pay no attention to his basketball opinions I don't see how that is related to his credibility as a reporter.
I take everything Monte poole says with a huge grain of salt these days. He was still calling Jordan Poole a bust at the start of this past season, when he clearly was not. He seems to enjoy being negative as much as he can.
I think bad analysis and bad reporting need to be separated, a reporter who traffics in hot takes might still have good sources. In fact I think SAS is a good example of that, he is well connected in the NBA from what I've seen over the years.
To be honest I've long felt this way about Stephen A. I feel like he claims to know more than he does. He may be correct here but with a lot of things I feel like he makes it up. He tried to act like he knew from a source that KD wasn't leaving, when all he's been saying is what Tsai should do.
Yes you heard almost the exact same thing about Wiseman a couple of offseasons ago. Kuminga comes across similarly to Jordan Bell in regards to responding to negativity on social media and his playful demeanor towards the vets. Maybe it’s rubbing some people within the organization the wrong way. Just speculating before Sleepy jumps down my throat
... I find him really hard to judge. English is not his native language, so I can't tell if his responses in interviews reflect language barriers or immauturity.
KD is known to "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" fans but there he goes under the name Marvin the Paranoid Android. “My capacity for happiness, you could fit into a matchbox without taking out the matches first.” –Marvin Or... “I’d give you advice, but you wouldn’t listen. No one ever does.” –Marvin
Feels pretty accurate haha... wifey doesn't really follow basketball and those are the main names/faces (outside of Dubs players) she recognizes. And KD.
LOL when I took my wife to her first Warriors game, it happened to be against the Nets and the only player she recognized was Kris Humphries and that's because he was with Kim Kardashian.
I had a dream that the Warriors were doing badly in a series until unexpectedly Pau gasol came back from injury and they started kicking ass. Upon awakening, I am wondering how much of an asset he really would be. Peak Pau was a great scorer around the rim, and was always a good passer; but he never played the modern game. I don’t know how good he’d be in the Warriors pace and space system, and I know that he would get exposed on defense trying to defend on the perimeter off of switches. What do you think? [Edited to add: Prime Pau, not at current age.]
How much of an asset do you think a 42-year old Pau Gasol who hasn't played in the NBA since KD still played for the Warriors would be?
Edit: I find it strange that you think Andre is too old and decrepit to play for this team but would seriously consider a Pau Gasol who is 4 years older and has a worse injury history.
No, Prime Pau. Because you're right, I have no interest in anyone at 42 let alone Pau who was no amazing athlete. The only one I might consider some day is LeBron because I'm not sure the laws of aging apply to him.
If Marc Gasol can work here, I think Prime Pau would too.
From what I remember, he was more nimble than Marc, so defensively, maybe he would've been able to be hold his own on the perimeter like Loon or Bam. He didn't really develop a 3pt shot because he didn't need to but I could see him hitting spot up threes if he worked on it.... actually now that I looked it up... he shot 42% on threes when he actually started shooting them ('15-16 to '18-19).
Excellent research. It's funny, I'm sure the comp for all of us on one Gasol is the other one. I think he could develop a three -- he always had a good midrange faceup game. I'd say he'd help a lot on defense and would not cost too much on defense. Some, but not too much. Hired!
He won this round. But wait until the Nets hit a losing streak. Maybe Ben Simmons' head isn't right, Kyrie wants to go on walkabout, or Nash makes a really dumb coaching mistake....
The comment was aimed more at the idea that the owners are very happy Tsai was able to enforce the terms of KD's contract. It would affect all of them if their top players regarded their contracts as optional.
But, yes, hard to predict what the Nets are going to be like this season.
The only explanation is that he was high when he committed to making his trade demand, and was embarrassed to back out of it until the Nets called all his bluffs.
Sounds like it might just be an unfortunate accident: “The game was canceled in the second quarter because of the condition of the court. The unusually humid day in Seattle combined with a full crowd caused repeated wet spots and condensation.“
this is a rookie playing against LeBron for the first time. Maybe, he got too excited, cocky, nervous, eager, etc. Someone should have reminded him that, besides ego, there was nothing at stake in this game.
Uh-oh... if his ankles are messed up, better give up on him now. Nobody with ankle issues early in their career has ever led teams to multiple championships, won an unanimous MVP award, set league records, or anything like that.
Kuminga says predictable things about everything. He learned sports-interview-speak a long time ago. All he says in most interviews is "Just keep working on my game, try to get better each and every day." Listen for it, he'll say it next time. Similarly, he'll say what he said about Kyrie about every vet. I find it meaningless, in that context.
Kyrie’s issues — narcissism, general weirdness, pretentiousness, e.g. — are not really things you teach. Kyrie’s elite ball skills and shooting can be taught, at least to some degree.
Not even slightly worried about this “news,” such it is. I actually kinda love the idea of JK working out with Kyrie. If he can hone his shooting and handle to even 70% of Kyrie level, he could be a superstar.
I guess it depends on what kind of advice Kyrie is giving him. If it’s all basketball related, then no problem. But I think people are concerned about the “business-conduct” side of things.
Some might say what Kyrie does is great and all about player empowerment, which is true, but it is also true that it can be a headache for the team and locker room culture — eg the trade requests, boycotting games over the vaccine, passive aggressive beef with teammates. This latter stuff is not so much about eccentricities and weirdness, it’s a zero-sum me-first life approach and philosophy that absolutely is shaped by those who you keep in your close company and who you turn to for counsel. It stands in stark contrast to, say, Jordan Poole who seems to be striking a balance between personal growth AND team growth, where team and ME are aligned.
At the same time, I think it is easy to overcatastrophize past traumas like McCaw and worry about simmering discontent.
Eh, I guess I’m more of “people are who they are” guy. Kyrie is Kyrie; Jon is Jon. I mean, I think extended exposure over many years to a real parental-type figure *might* have the effect of molding a person a bit, but I don’t think the same remotely goes for a cordial professional interaction like we’re talking about with JK and KI.
Can you imagine a cordial professional interaction with someone at age 19 that would have substantively changed who you are today?
Maybe it's not so much being changed substantially, but there have definitely been brief interactions that... stayed with me for a long time? On one hand that might be interpreted as being changed substantially, but on the other hand it could also be interpreted as "simply turning a switch that was within me all along", which would fit your thesis that "that's who I always was anyway." I guess the impact is probably proportional to how highly I esteem the other person.
If Kobe around and were to give Kuminga some words of advice, I'd bet that he'd take it fully to heart.
Either way, I agree with the sentiment that there we really shouldn't be wringing our hands over offseason clickbait. Nothing we can do except to watch things unfold, support the dubs, and hope for the best. Worriers will worry, but we should also enjoy the final days of summer!
I think there's a big difference between being a hard worker and being a professional. I don't think there is any doubt that Kuminga is a hard worker. The kid shaped his game after Kobe from watching Youtube videos. That's impressive. You don't get where he is without having worked really hard.
The next step is becoming a professional. This involves knowing how to carry yourself, how to approach the game and preparation, how to come motivated every day and to every practice, etc.
A lack of professionalism can come across as a lack of work ethic, although the two things are connected but separate. My guess is that Kuminga (a kid still) is still learning how to be a professional. This can be hard when you take a teenager and make them a millionaire with adoring fans.
The good news is that professionalism is much more easily learned than is a good work ethic in the first place. If the Warriors keep the vets around him, give him the support he needs, etc. then I'm not too worried about this aspect.
What I've heard that makes the most sense is that Jonathon Kuminga just needs to learn more about the overall game of basketball.
Incredible physical ability and potential skills that need a lot more playing time to develop into a player with a complete game. This is not always something that comes easily and usually takes some time for most rookies. To me, JK needs a lot of high level competitive court time that other rookies probably experienced at earlier stages and younger ages in their basketball lives.
The Warriors should be able to provide him great support from their coaches and players. The tricky part could be to find enough quality yet developmental minutes for him... as the team looks forward to another championship run.
A bunch of people in this thread have been saying (or intimating) that he doesn’t work hard.
Whatever — I’m fine with the hate, since (a) it means he’s intriguing and on the national radar enough for guys like Stephen A to hate on him; and (b) to the extent that he needs any more motivation, it should motivate him to shut people up. (See Stephen Curry 2022, e.g.)
He's not wrong. The "player empowerment" era would have always been more aptly named the "superstar empowerment" era. Everyone else still mostly gets in where they fit in...although admittedly, Eric Bledsoe was able to force a trade out of Phoenix once lol.
I think that is more a product of him having 4 years left on his deal and his age. His threat to hold out rings extremely hollow because what is he going to do, throw away 4 seasons and get a new team when he is 38?
If KD had 1-2 years remaining on his deal, he'd be traded already.
While I agree with PB that Durant’s behavior is not cool, I really don’t buy this ‘dudes with families … who haven’t got a job’ whining. These are millionaires who will all got jobs. KD’s shenanigans merely delays knowing where they will play.
Yes. Also consider the effect on families. They don’t know if tomorrow they’re going to have to take their kids out of school and immediately move to Toronto, for example.
I mean, PatBev isn't wrong. KD has the right to deal with his contract and team situation however he likes but Pat Bev is totally correct in that it does have a big downstream effect on other free agents and their salaries and playing situations for next year.
https://theathletic.com/3536939/2022/08/24/jazz-lakers-patrick-beverley-trade?source=user-shared-article
Ugh
PatBev on the Clippers would be a bummer. On the Lakers, the comedy value alone is priceless.
Well there go all of my hopes and dreams.
Hahahahaha, but seriously... can you imagine someone less likely to be willing to put up with Westbrook's lack of effort on defense? If Westbrook is still around (which he will be) this is certainly not going to help the locker room drama at all.
Westbrook’s tweet about how overrated PatBev’s defense is doubled in comedy value with this signing.
When do the Warriors go to the White House?
Thnx
Let us presume that Chris Paul has a decent couple of regular seasons left, doesn't go far in the playoffs, and retires. How would you then describe his career?
Who?
Second best small player ever, after Steph?
In the convo, anyway.
Sounds like another famous player who played for the Suns... just replace Stephen Curry with Michael Jordan and point guard with forward. Though I'm fairly certain that CP3 will not have the post-NBA career media success that Barkley has had, he's just not funny or likeable enough.
He will become president of State Farm.
Versus the Hornets?
Actually, he was fairly likeable on the Hornets, tbh.
Referring to topic shared by Eric, the popularity of NBA players among not basketball fans, I’d like to give to You a significative example.
During the Finals I found out, thanks a picture, that here in Italy, not so far from my city, it was possible to purchase the celebrative t-shirt of Dubs win of 2016 ( yes, You read well).
Italian mostly follow soccer, few are fans of Italian basketball league, and less of Nba, therefore it was the perfect market where it was possible to sell (I’d rather preferred to burn them, it was really a bad signs, despite I’m not superstitious).
Likely on 2028 here it will possible to buy the green shirts of C’s victory of 2022…😂
Secondo me in Italia si segue più l'NBA che la serie A1. Chiunque segue il basket in Italia sa chi è LBJ o Jordan, ma chiedigli il quintetto di Milano o della Virtus e vedi cosa ti risponde
= In my experience, Italian fans are more into NBA than the Italian League. Every basketball fan knows LBJ or Jordan, but have no idea of Milan or Bologna starting five
Ciao!
Jordan has become a symbol, and it’s absolutely true he is known by everyone, as well as Kobe. On LBJ I have less confidence than You, he hasn’t the same popularity as the other 2.
You know better than me the dichotomy between FIBA and NBA take a lot of followers of Italian league far from NBA ( no defense, always travels, bla bla bla…)
It's funny that you say there are not many Italian NBA fans; I've always felt that of all of our international commenter's origin countries, Italy was probably represented the best on this forum. I could think of like 5 Italian commenters off the top of my head and I think there are more. Maybe DNHQ has just captured an outsized portion of the small Italian NBA community?
In Europe no team plays motion offense like the Dubs. We only see 35 minutes of pick and roll and some post down situation
Too boring
Mike James is one of the best player and plays 40 minutes of hero ball
So we started to get into Kerr, Steph, Klay, Dray, etc
For the Love of the Game
I think there are fans strongly committed, despite official media usually ignore NBA, or if they speak about it, make funny mistakes (ex: LBJ plays for LAl Galaxy…); Italian basket blogs help to improve knowledge for people who don’t speak English.
But, if you stop people for an interview in any square of an Italian town, I’m afraid mostly they don’t know Steph, as well KD or any other superstar.
A Bologna in centro compri la maglia di James o Tatum originale. Se giri per tutta la città forse trovi quella di Teodosic ma devi impegnarti. Nei playground vedi solo maglie NBA
Virtus point compri tutto quello che vuoi!😄
Likely we belong to 2 different generations, and I’m older than You.
Young people for sure are more in, in Bologna, which is Basket city.
Rest of Italy is not, unfortunately.
Yeah your second paragraph is more what I would expect from a country that has only a handful of current NBA players. Glad that our community here has attracted so many knowledgeable Italian fans though! It's cool to have your perspectives on basketball and the league.
Haha, when I was a kid and found out that the "victory" t-shirts for losing Finals/Superb Owl/World Series teams ended up in other countries I thought it was pretty funny.
I've always thought it would be funny to write a book where one of the characters who came across such a trove of t-shirts as a kid, having no other expose to the NFL at the time, became a devout fan of four time Super Bowl champions, the Buffalo Bills.
Had to read “Superb Owl” twice to see it was Super Bowl. Is that a “What We do in the Shadows” reference?
“Best player in the game” is precisely as vaguely defined as “Honorary Warriors For Life”, so I won’t get into that but the whole “household name” discussion gave me a new perspective.
In my opinion, each NBA era gets defined by its household name players (and there are only really one or two per era), at least since the 80s. Yes, for NBA nerds, we can dice it fine or asterisk this or that, but for most people it’s:
1980s roughly: Bird and Magic era
1990s: Jordan era
2000s: Kobe and Shaq era
And in the future, this time will be remembered as
2010s: LeBron and Steph era (or Steph and LeBron era)
Which is pretty f’ing amazing considering a few years back we were just grateful his ankle was holding up and annoyed that David Lee got the 2013 All-Star appearance over him
In the Philippines, 100M NBA fans, it's all about these players in this order; Jordan (mostly because of the jumpman logo), Lebron, Kobe, Curry, Irving, Giannis, Wade, Rose (why Rose?)
These MVPs barely exist; Jokic, Harden, Westbrook, Nowitzki, Nash, Duncan, Iverson, Shaq
The most popular team is wherever Lebron plays, 2nd is the recent title winner, then Lakers, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls, Bucks, Heat. PBA teams aren't location specific, so they are accustomed to constantly switching allegiances.
Thanks for sharing! I know the Philippines is a basketball hotbed but wasn't aware of the non-location specific nature of the teams. Do teams tour all the time instead of playing in a "home" arena?
~1/3 of the population, ~30M people, live near Manila, so only a handful of non-playoff games are played outside of the capital region. All playoff games are in Manila, all elimination games Smart Coliseum. I saw the Warriors cheerleaders at an NBA promotional event in a Mall in 2015, but no NBA games have been played here.
I forgot about Rose... also another name I've heard mentioned outside of basketball circles. I also ask why... I can't think of anything aside from the Bulls being an internationally recognized brand (b/c of Jordan).
I bet there's a huge difference as well in national household name and regional household name. Probably in most markets that have a superstar people have heard the name of that player.
Everyone in Salt Lake City knew who Stockton and Malone were back in the 90s. I bet pretty much everyone in OKC knew who Kevin Durant was when he was there. Per another comment, Philadelphia residents were probably at least aware of the name Allen Iverson. Probably the same for Dwayne Wade in Miami, Tim Duncan in San Antonio, Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, Dirk in Dallas, etc.
I think for popularity you can probably divide them up into two tiers:
Top tier: household name nationally. These are the ones Eric listed. There are typically no more than one or two at a time.
Second tier: regional household names. Those in the neighboring state might not know who they are, but it would be difficult not to be aware of them in their own hometown.
While my wife certainly knows the current Dubs, before this era the names you listed are the ones she could produce. And Dr. J.
I am not sure the 1970s fit the “one name” paradigm…. In the actual 70s, Dr J and Kareem were the most well known, but… I am not sure they are remembered today
Kareem might be remembered because he was in the news for things other than basketball. He was in a Bruce Lee movie, he was active with respect to civil rights, etc. Even changing his name was front page news. Before that era, the only NBA player who probably was a household name was Wilt, even though there were plenty of greats that we'd identify with those eras. Russell probably was better known to the non-fan general public after he retired.
Kareem was widely known for his "sky hook". The NCAA banned dunking after his first season at UCLA it was said due to his dominance. Then 6 NBA championships, and 6 MVP awards...
Russell was quite well known for his streak of championships with the Celtics, 8 straight and 11 total... winning his first as a rookie after 2 college national championships with USF and an Olympic gold medal. Then becoming the first black head coach in NBA history.
You are thinking like a basketball fan and we're talking about the general public. It does not matter what someone accomplished if you don't follow the topic at all. My sister-in-law has no idea what a sky hook is. She probably thinks it's construction equipment. She may have heard of Kareem because he is interviewed on social issues. She only knows Bill Russell from recent years, especially with all the coverage since his death. I wouldn't bet she knows he played for Boston although maybe. I'll ask her just for grins. On the other hand she knows a lot about actors, and I don't.
I certainly remember Dr. J and Kareem... and think we just found out how much Bill Russell is remembered today... when actually Wilt was the "one name" arguably recognizable outside of basketball from the 60s or whenever that was...
Yes, that is lesson I learned from reading all the replies to “name a basketball player” by civilians
I found out a couple years ago that my 30-something half-brother — who graduated from UNC, lives in the world, and has a hoops junkie older brother — had never *heard of* LeBron James.
Culture is weirdly fragmented these days.
> Culture is weirdly fragmented these days.
Also, the world is VERY big. I'm pretty sure cricket has just as many fans as basketball, if not more, but I couldn't name a single cricket player past or present.
WOW!!
2000s have to include Tim Duncan imo
Nope. Casuals don’t know him.
(Actual impact is a different discussion.)
Oh, if we're going by casual knowledge then Allen Iverson is a lock
It was very educational for me to read all the replies by non-fans about “name a basketball player”. I don’t think I’ve seen Iverson mentioned a single time.
I guess it depends on the demographic. If you're talking suburban areas, maybe not, but you'll definitely have heard of AI if you grew up (or had kids) in the city during the 2000's.
I understand your perspective, as of course AI was a major figure in the NBA. But I’m just saying that in reading dozens of civilian answers to “name 5 basketball players”, literally NO ONE has answered AI. This tells me that our perspective as fans is very bad at guessing what non-fans know. They literally know the names I wrote above. AI, Tim Duncan and even Kevin Durant are completely off the general public radar.
Anyway, check out the twitter threads. I don’t think it’s worth us fans guessing about non-fans further before you look at the anecdotal data.
I bet AI is almost entirely unknown if you're not a basketball fan. He's probably pretty far down the list. Maybe in Philly, I guess.
He's one of my favorite players but I feel he's a tier below in the "household names" rankings. Quiet personality, small market team, very "bland" game... I'd be surprised if even 1 out of 5 non-NBA fans recognize his face.
Tony Parker (ties to Eva Longoria) might be more recognizable to those folks.
I was more thinking that "player of an era" referred more to which guys dominated the decade. If it's based on offhand casual knowledge, I think Iverson is right up there with Kobe
And I bet most non-sports fan never heard of Kobe until his tragic death. We fans tend to not realize how little non-fans are aware of the world of basketball.
He won five titles for the most popular franchise, with the most media coverage, won an Oscar, and went to trial for rape.
Yeah man but non fans DON'T CARE. My mother probably heard of Wilt and MJ and that's it. Maybe Kobe because of the crash but I wouldn't bet on it. She doesn't know and she doesn't care. And she played HS basketball right after WW2.
Amen: https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/why-cant-steph-curry-be-nbas-best-player-after-warriors-latest-title
Any legs to the observation Stephen A Smith made this morning about hearing from “too many people” that Jonathan Kuminga lacks focus and discipline in terms of the way he carries himself off court? I’m going to be honest I have no clue what exactly SAS is referencing. Is it his preparation? Is it his lifestyle?
For me, it's something to keep an eye on but not really that worrisome yet. I remember Steph saying something along the lines of "when I was that age, I was just looking for frat parties". I know it feels like sweeping the problem under the rug, especially with an equally young but more mature Moody on the same team, but I really do feel like "he's not even 20" is really all it is... for now.
Are we that bored?
43 comments on Stephen A. Smith's bloviating about whether a 19 year old is mature or not?
Yes
Exactly. Blog sites are desperate enough to publish it and we’re bored enough to talk about it.
Stephen A. wins again. *fist shake*
This is what drives me nuts over off-season sports.
YES, at least I'M that bored.
I think there's focus and discipline, which Kuminga has, and then there's NBA SUPERSTAR LEVEL FOCUS AND DISCIPLINE, which it seems he has not yet shown. I'll buy that. One of my theories is that the challenge has not been appropriate to his abilities. It's like me prepping for a sixth grade math test. Sure, I could review the material, but I have the confidence/arrogance to presume I don't need to bother. I suspect the same is true for Kuminga. A challenge for the coaching staff is to put him in pressure situations where he learns just how important the work is. Because we all, including him, know that hard work pays off. But it's one thing when that's theoretical and another when they say "This series you'll be guarding Giannis and we need you to slow him down and score 25 a game." Now that would wake him up... And we've also seen even with hardworking superstars that they need to learn what true hard work is. Apparently both Steph and Klay learned to commit themselves on defense at the 2014 FIBA. If true, it illustrates the point that we might think we're working hard, but there's a next level. Kuminga needs that moment, is my take.
Good take.
That’s pretty much why he fell to 7 in the draft. Jarrett Jack was pointed in that comparison in a podcast comparing Green and Kuminga’s work habits. So it goes back a ways.
Draymond made the note that Kuminga had to learn to work early in the season. Moody’s professionalism showed out comparatively.
Based on what he was able to do last year, I think he kicked his work habits to a good place in season. I’m guessing he’s probably not yet there on his own time. Hopefully that piece turns on sooner than later.
Good summary. He seems to be a good learner who may not be a "self-starter" type.
Saw that in all of summer league even on the court. Said as much then about it.
Is it really that big of a deal if he doesn't care much about summer league? He clearly doesn't have a lot to work on at that level of competition.
IT was more his mannerisms after a bad play or a perceived bad call where he would just sit on the floor and pout or slap the court ala Rasheed.
I know he's just a kid and hopefully Curry and Klay (AI too if he's back) rub off on him more than being influenced by Green.
Why was Kuminga playing summer league at all if he didn't need the work? (Hint: He does need the work. He's talented but he's not THAT damn good yet. He wasn't effortlessly outshining everybody in summer league.) If he's not going to work, sit down.
I am wondering why the staff seemed to think that getting Kuminga to learn ‘to see the floor’, which he does not do well, was a good thing to learn at that level of competition. I am wondering if the only way to learn the basics is by playing NBA full speed basketball? Didn’t work for year 1 Wise, did it? I’m not a basketball player, so I don’t know.
Not if you’re cross training something that’s your current role. Sure it’s a chaotic environment, but getting reps at a slower pace provides a building block for the raw skills you’ll need in high level competition.
It’s not. It’s like knowing you’re that much better than your competition. Sure maybe that speaks to maturity issues on his approach to the game but I mean the guy usually looked like one of the best players on the court when he was engaged.
IMO That’s sort of like my saying I’m a professional singer so if I go sing with a community chorus I don’t have to bother to sing well. We can choose to use every opportunity to improve and more importantly, to contribute……or not.
KISS was famous for performing amazing sets in front of big concert crowds, but not very good in recording studio. Is completely unreasonable to expect top performance from people all the time regardless of the situation.
KISS is a great example of this variance. So is Blue Oyster Cult. So is Lauryn Hill. So is Deep Purple. So is MGMT. Many artists aren't always as good in concert as their top level of capability.
Yes, and that has nothing to do with work ethic OR capability. It has to do with where you are comfortable. The studio is a very different environment than the stage. Some people thrive in the relative calm and perhaps more clinical studio environment and can handle the stress of perfectly nailing a take but don't like the stress of touring. Others prefer the high-wire act of live performance and need a live audience. Some love both.
Yes, I would agree noone is capable of peak performance all the time.
I think that's wishful thinking. Few athletes or musicians give the same level of effort for every performance. Some stages are just smaller and the effort exerted won't be the same as for a larger showcase. I don't see that as a problem, either.
Yes, one cannot bring the same energy always. But hopefully Someone does not routinely walk around like they’re shopping at Macy’s (Seadubs Dec. 3) when there is a smaller stage/spotlight. If you watched him in person in the G league last fall then you know what I’m talking about. It also seems to be an ethical position…not bothering to contribute. Honestly he reminds me of what a friend of mine who is a psychologist of a college students said. She said this generation, the social media generation, has very little idea of who they are because they are so busy trying to manipulate how they are perceived. But then none of us knows the guy so it’s all guesswork.
Yeah, this is laughably false. You aren't the only one who here who has taken part in athletics and you are definitely not the only one here who has observed others perform. Your experience is not universal. I've seen enough athletes run out the clock in professional sports competition when the stakes are low over the course of many decades to call total BS on this claim. We see NBA players give half effort every single season in games that are not as meaningful to them. Some have made almost an art form out of it. You can easily point out many instances of this on pretty much every team, guys just running out the clock. You can say "I don't like it" but don't for a second try to claim it doesn't happen. It happens all the time, and the most talented and most accomplished stars are often the most egregious examples.
Similarly, I've been present at many concerts where big-name and accomplished artists just don't try as hard or give as much of a fuck as they would for a bigger or more meaningful show. Some bands DO play just as well no matter who they are performing for; I saw OK GO once at a festival and although I'm not a fan of their work, they won me over due to the effort they put into their live set. They aren't the norm though. I've seen far more artists like Lauryn Hill, whose music I quite enjoy but is notorious for giving very sub-par performances at shows she doesn't care about very much.
You say Elite athletes and performers are separated from us by their "passion and willpower" and I say that's total bunk, too. The hardest workers in life are often not the people with the most wealth or accomplishments. What separates elite performance from the rest of us is talent, first and foremost. Many performers who are not as talented as the top of the top have plenty of passion and endless willpower. They might give 100% at every single opportunity and never make it to the big time. Conversely, many athletes and performers blessed with more talent than anyone else on earth aren't necessarily the workers that work the hardest. When you have more talent than everyone else, you don't always have to give 100% to beat them. Many athletes and performers don't push it to the limit every time they go out there. Not everyone is like Steph Curry, and even Steph has his lackadaisical moments where he isn't 100% locked in.
This. I’m a (mostly retired) professional musician, 50+ years in the business. To get beyond the bar band scene and play concert tours and major studio recording sessions requires a high level of discipline, skill, and dedication. You are expected to be consistent excellent, but more important, you deliver every time you perform because it’s who you are. But sometimes it takes talented young players a few years and the right mentor or situation to realize what it takes and find the internal discipline to do it.
Look at his pre and post ASG splits. He raised his TS% from 50% to 66%. That’s insane improvement.
Definitely legs to this claim by SAS, but should we be worried about it? I’m thinking no. The guy is young, so he’s going to get things wrong in terms of preparation and commitment. He’s still learning. And he may never learn to be as committed as JP, as reliable as Moody, or in love with the game as Wise is. He is so physically talented, he can probably not be as good as those guys in those aspects and still be an amazing player (see James Harden as an example)
The one time I thought there was hope was that beautiful lob to James Wiseman for a dunk in summer league this summer. Seeing them playing together (synergy) with that level of skill was both surprising and encouraging.
The fact he was in Spain, presumably visiting relatives and on vacation, a few weeks after Summer League makes me wonder a bit. He needs to be working on his defense (with coaches) every chance he gets.
I suspect that it's going to limit his ceiling significantly, unfortunately. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
He's still 19 so he is still young enough where he can turn it around (assuming the reports are accurate and not just misunderstanding him which could be possible although we saw the "attitude" issues when he didn't try in the G-League so I believe the reports).
However I think some people say "he's 19, who cares" like it is guaranteed to fix itself as he gets older and I don't think that is true, or at least I don't think it is guaranteed to happen with the Warriors. Sometimes players need to be "humbled" on a team for them to thrive on another team, but the Warriors need to reach Kuminga now while he's still on the team.
I've just never met anyone who wasn't a worker and then became one. You either are, or you're not.
I realize that projecting from normal life to NBA basketball is a little suspect, and he will have the right mentoring and resources to get there. Like I say, I hope I'm wrong.
But, I think he has a little bit of the Ben Simmons, "I'm so good I can use my brother as a shooting coach" overconfidence in him.
There is a time for being at rest, and a time for being vigorous. -Lao Tzu
Hey, I’m Mikayla.
Now you’ve met at least one. Time to revise that first paragraph.
:)
Now he can add the qualifier ‘almost’ to never. Happy for you!
Wanna know how it happened? Too bad. I’m gonna tell you anyway. I worked closely for several years with a couple of incredibly competitive and dedicated hard workers.
Did I say anything about his shot? I said he needed to work on defense.
If he's in NY, working on defense, then great.
Hanging out with Kyrie putting up shots is not so great. I'd rather see him in the Bay Area, with Poole or Moody or Steph, working on that.
HIs offense is fine. What's keeping him off the court is knowing the defense, and I don't see how he gets better at that in NY.
To contrast, Poole had a video where he was working on strength training that someone commented on was related to staying in his defensive stance.
And, no I'm not making it up. There have been several reports by media that cover the Warriors that he doesn't work hard enough, and there is plenty of video that shows he sometimes checks out.
I hope I'm wrong, and I hope he comes back with better defense (or at least a little more effort on that end). We'll see.
The TL';DR version of this is I'd rather see him working on his weaknesses, not his strengths.
Is this not also up to the team to make it clear what their expectations are, when he should be working with other team members, etc.??? A Doctor who works with the Warriors told me after he finished treating one player, a physical therapist and two psychologists came in to work with that player. Seems like the Warriors have staff to help JK mature into his best self.
It is consistent with other stuff we have heard, in fact I don't even know if he is hearing new stuff or just hearing the same stuff we have heard. Heard stuff from Monte Poole, Andre Iguodala, Draymond Green, probably more I am forgetting.
It definitely seems to be a concern. They need Iguodala back.
Exactly. Monte Poole said it very clearly.
“Some of the foolishness. I'm not getting in his personal business. I'm not saying nothing like that. I'm talking attitude, I'm not talking actions. I'm saying that attitude, the level of focus, commitment, determination, just putting your head down. doing the work.”
Repeating…JK is n NY at Prada, not on the court practicing with JP…..work ethic?
Yeah I mean I heard what he was saying but in one sentence he said he’s not talking ‘actions’ which would imply that he’s not demonstrating anything outwardly to reflect a lack of focus but ‘doing the workI’ would suggest that his ‘actions’ are not commensurate with what’s needed to make that leap from year 1 to year 2
Yes.
And we have to trust Klay and Andre to keep him on the straight and narrow.
I got it all here in my head
There's nothing more needs to be said
I'm just bangin' on my old piano
I'm getting in tune to the straight and narrow
Who said that?
;-)
Indeed!
💜
Attributed to Arthur Rubenstein.
For those who don't know who you're talking about... https://www.basketballresults.net/home
I hadn't realized Kuminga was training with Jerry Powell. That is very encouraging. He will be in great shape coming into camp.
I'm not going to claim that SAS doesn't have any sources as he does seem to be plugged in with some players and some team staffers and execs. That being said, I'll believe these rumors when they are reported by someone like Thompson or Slater. The kid is still not of legal drinking age and we see this too often in NBA (and general sports) reporting where youth and inexperience are painted as a lack of focus and discipline.
We get this same thing with Wiseman too with the random reporting that he isn't really into basketball, when all reports from the team and from reporters plugged in with the team seem to indicate the exact opposite. The fact that national guys like SAS don't have to share their sources mean that we don't know if these rumors even come from someone currently with the Warriors or not.
Monte Poole has said the same thing, he had a podcast right before Summer League talking about this. Around 21 minutes in this podcast.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL2R1YnMtdGFsaw/episode/Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwL0phODFTNnF6RWxIUDFzSGNTX1NJMEJlNHV3R0xKUERob3dwb2JrX1VlWGs?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwj4vdiSzd35AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQCg
I believe Iguodala referenced it in his podcast with Kerr. And Draymond mentioned it in a press conference earlier in the season. There's other stuff but I can't remember off the top of my head right now.
I agree that the Wiseman stuff seems unfounded, by all accounts he is a hard worker and very coachable. I'm not sure we've gotten the same message about Kuminga though.
You are conflating statements that aren't really that similar. Draymond spoke of Kuminga's maturity level but framed it positively, saying that JK just needed to have more time around professionals to build the right kind of habits and that he was getting it now. Kerr said something very similar in his Point Forward appearance. Did not get the sense that either of them were worried about JK's work ethic or saw it as an issue going forward. They (correctly) identified his struggles as that of a young kid who basically taught himself how to play ball and still has a lot of room to grow in establishing maturity and good habits. Moses Moody and his comparatively advanced level is the exception as far as 19-year olds go, not the rule.
As far as Monte Poole goes, he is on probation with me as far as I'm concerned after getting it so comically wrong with his forecasting on Jordan Poole last season. That was a hit to his credibility and he needs to re-establish it before I trust his forecasting on a young player, especially when it comes to takes as vague as the one he offered on Kuminga in that podcast.
What does his analysis of Poole as a player where he goes off of feeling have to do with his reporting on Kuminga where he cites team sources? Those seem like entirely separate categories, I get having negative feelings toward the guy (I don't fuck with Poole for reasons I will not get into on here) but while I pay no attention to his basketball opinions I don't see how that is related to his credibility as a reporter.
I take everything Monte poole says with a huge grain of salt these days. He was still calling Jordan Poole a bust at the start of this past season, when he clearly was not. He seems to enjoy being negative as much as he can.
He just couldn’t handle not being Best Poole.
I think bad analysis and bad reporting need to be separated, a reporter who traffics in hot takes might still have good sources. In fact I think SAS is a good example of that, he is well connected in the NBA from what I've seen over the years.
To be honest I've long felt this way about Stephen A. I feel like he claims to know more than he does. He may be correct here but with a lot of things I feel like he makes it up. He tried to act like he knew from a source that KD wasn't leaving, when all he's been saying is what Tsai should do.
I think he makes stuff up a good deal of the time.
But he says it loudly so it must be true!
Yes you heard almost the exact same thing about Wiseman a couple of offseasons ago. Kuminga comes across similarly to Jordan Bell in regards to responding to negativity on social media and his playful demeanor towards the vets. Maybe it’s rubbing some people within the organization the wrong way. Just speculating before Sleepy jumps down my throat
... I find him really hard to judge. English is not his native language, so I can't tell if his responses in interviews reflect language barriers or immauturity.
Time will tell.
We’ll he is very clear he wants to showcase his game.
Maybe it means instead of being in NY at Prada he should be home working out daily with JP.
Current thing on NBA Twitter is to ask non-fans to name 5 NBA players. Idea is to see who is REALLY a "household name".
After viewing the evidence I can safely say the only current players who qualify are Steph and LeBron, period.
With honorable mention for players like Booker and Tristan Thompson who have dated and optionally cheated on Kardashians.
https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1561799043856343040?s=20&t=68bEUbhEzF5_cCYHF51r0g
https://twitter.com/YungFeeny/status/1562061618921541637?s=20&t=68bEUbhEzF5_cCYHF51r0g
This one’s hilarious!
https://twitter.com/wok_m4ster_fl3x/status/1561990279128907781/photo/1
No KD with all this drama?
Correct, KD specifically is unknown outside the NBA bubble
KD is known to "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" fans but there he goes under the name Marvin the Paranoid Android. “My capacity for happiness, you could fit into a matchbox without taking out the matches first.” –Marvin Or... “I’d give you advice, but you wouldn’t listen. No one ever does.” –Marvin
I don't think the drama breaks out of the NBA bubble
Feels pretty accurate haha... wifey doesn't really follow basketball and those are the main names/faces (outside of Dubs players) she recognizes. And KD.
LOL when I took my wife to her first Warriors game, it happened to be against the Nets and the only player she recognized was Kris Humphries and that's because he was with Kim Kardashian.
Oh him too! She didn't know his name but he looked familiar haha
KD needs to be booed each and every time he steps on the court in NJ.
He probably will be. And that's just his head coach & GM.
Wondering if it will be the same head coach and gm???
They were all in the meeting together along with Joe Tsai.
Damn it, I knew it was wrong and hit send anyway.
I had a dream that the Warriors were doing badly in a series until unexpectedly Pau gasol came back from injury and they started kicking ass. Upon awakening, I am wondering how much of an asset he really would be. Peak Pau was a great scorer around the rim, and was always a good passer; but he never played the modern game. I don’t know how good he’d be in the Warriors pace and space system, and I know that he would get exposed on defense trying to defend on the perimeter off of switches. What do you think? [Edited to add: Prime Pau, not at current age.]
Pau would be a beast in todays game
Current, 42 year old Pau or Prime Pau?
Prime Spanish Rib
Now THAT would be a good addition for sure (never had it but looks delicious).
How much of an asset do you think a 42-year old Pau Gasol who hasn't played in the NBA since KD still played for the Warriors would be?
Edit: I find it strange that you think Andre is too old and decrepit to play for this team but would seriously consider a Pau Gasol who is 4 years older and has a worse injury history.
No, Prime Pau. Because you're right, I have no interest in anyone at 42 let alone Pau who was no amazing athlete. The only one I might consider some day is LeBron because I'm not sure the laws of aging apply to him.
If Marc Gasol can work here, I think Prime Pau would too.
From what I remember, he was more nimble than Marc, so defensively, maybe he would've been able to be hold his own on the perimeter like Loon or Bam. He didn't really develop a 3pt shot because he didn't need to but I could see him hitting spot up threes if he worked on it.... actually now that I looked it up... he shot 42% on threes when he actually started shooting them ('15-16 to '18-19).
Excellent research. It's funny, I'm sure the comp for all of us on one Gasol is the other one. I think he could develop a three -- he always had a good midrange faceup game. I'd say he'd help a lot on defense and would not cost too much on defense. Some, but not too much. Hired!
I’ve always said that if you put Gasol in this coach’s system, it would pack quite a punch: KERR-PAU!
It's weird, even though I believe you, I've never actually heard you say that.
I think I’ve now made that Kerr-Pau joke three times over the last 10 years between hear and GSOM. If I repeat a joke, I always say, “I always say…”.
lol KD
The smacking sound you hear is 29 other owners giving Joe Tsai high-fives.
He won this round. But wait until the Nets hit a losing streak. Maybe Ben Simmons' head isn't right, Kyrie wants to go on walkabout, or Nash makes a really dumb coaching mistake....
The comment was aimed more at the idea that the owners are very happy Tsai was able to enforce the terms of KD's contract. It would affect all of them if their top players regarded their contracts as optional.
But, yes, hard to predict what the Nets are going to be like this season.
The only explanation is that he was high when he committed to making his trade demand, and was embarrassed to back out of it until the Nets called all his bluffs.
I can think of at least one other explanation.
Fine... this is my favorite tho
Very capricious man. But I think here he flip flopped back to the best place for him. Sticking it out in Brooklyn.
For now, anyway…
Until at least January 15th.
Damn. Hope he recovers soon. Want to see him & Giddey play together this season
Sounds like it might just be an unfortunate accident: “The game was canceled in the second quarter because of the condition of the court. The unusually humid day in Seattle combined with a full crowd caused repeated wet spots and condensation.“
Link: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34453820/oklahoma-city-thunder-rookie-chet-holmgren-undergoing-tests-foot-injury-suffered-pro-am
this is a rookie playing against LeBron for the first time. Maybe, he got too excited, cocky, nervous, eager, etc. Someone should have reminded him that, besides ego, there was nothing at stake in this game.
Serious question: is Presti happy or sad about this development?
If Chet eventually recovers, then this will give plausible cover for the Tank For Victor strategy
Right or wrong, there are going to be a whole lotta "I told you so" takes
Uh-oh... if his ankles are messed up, better give up on him now. Nobody with ankle issues early in their career has ever led teams to multiple championships, won an unanimous MVP award, set league records, or anything like that.
I get what you're saying, but doesn't a foot of height make a huge difference in this case?
Maybe? But also maybe not. The future is unpredictable.
Kuminga says predictable things about everything. He learned sports-interview-speak a long time ago. All he says in most interviews is "Just keep working on my game, try to get better each and every day." Listen for it, he'll say it next time. Similarly, he'll say what he said about Kyrie about every vet. I find it meaningless, in that context.
Truth bomb
Uh oh…
Kyrie’s issues — narcissism, general weirdness, pretentiousness, e.g. — are not really things you teach. Kyrie’s elite ball skills and shooting can be taught, at least to some degree.
Not even slightly worried about this “news,” such it is. I actually kinda love the idea of JK working out with Kyrie. If he can hone his shooting and handle to even 70% of Kyrie level, he could be a superstar.
I guess it depends on what kind of advice Kyrie is giving him. If it’s all basketball related, then no problem. But I think people are concerned about the “business-conduct” side of things.
Some might say what Kyrie does is great and all about player empowerment, which is true, but it is also true that it can be a headache for the team and locker room culture — eg the trade requests, boycotting games over the vaccine, passive aggressive beef with teammates. This latter stuff is not so much about eccentricities and weirdness, it’s a zero-sum me-first life approach and philosophy that absolutely is shaped by those who you keep in your close company and who you turn to for counsel. It stands in stark contrast to, say, Jordan Poole who seems to be striking a balance between personal growth AND team growth, where team and ME are aligned.
At the same time, I think it is easy to overcatastrophize past traumas like McCaw and worry about simmering discontent.
Eh, I guess I’m more of “people are who they are” guy. Kyrie is Kyrie; Jon is Jon. I mean, I think extended exposure over many years to a real parental-type figure *might* have the effect of molding a person a bit, but I don’t think the same remotely goes for a cordial professional interaction like we’re talking about with JK and KI.
Can you imagine a cordial professional interaction with someone at age 19 that would have substantively changed who you are today?
I see where you're coming from.
Maybe it's not so much being changed substantially, but there have definitely been brief interactions that... stayed with me for a long time? On one hand that might be interpreted as being changed substantially, but on the other hand it could also be interpreted as "simply turning a switch that was within me all along", which would fit your thesis that "that's who I always was anyway." I guess the impact is probably proportional to how highly I esteem the other person.
If Kobe around and were to give Kuminga some words of advice, I'd bet that he'd take it fully to heart.
Either way, I agree with the sentiment that there we really shouldn't be wringing our hands over offseason clickbait. Nothing we can do except to watch things unfold, support the dubs, and hope for the best. Worriers will worry, but we should also enjoy the final days of summer!
I think there's a big difference between being a hard worker and being a professional. I don't think there is any doubt that Kuminga is a hard worker. The kid shaped his game after Kobe from watching Youtube videos. That's impressive. You don't get where he is without having worked really hard.
The next step is becoming a professional. This involves knowing how to carry yourself, how to approach the game and preparation, how to come motivated every day and to every practice, etc.
A lack of professionalism can come across as a lack of work ethic, although the two things are connected but separate. My guess is that Kuminga (a kid still) is still learning how to be a professional. This can be hard when you take a teenager and make them a millionaire with adoring fans.
The good news is that professionalism is much more easily learned than is a good work ethic in the first place. If the Warriors keep the vets around him, give him the support he needs, etc. then I'm not too worried about this aspect.
What I've heard that makes the most sense is that Jonathon Kuminga just needs to learn more about the overall game of basketball.
Incredible physical ability and potential skills that need a lot more playing time to develop into a player with a complete game. This is not always something that comes easily and usually takes some time for most rookies. To me, JK needs a lot of high level competitive court time that other rookies probably experienced at earlier stages and younger ages in their basketball lives.
The Warriors should be able to provide him great support from their coaches and players. The tricky part could be to find enough quality yet developmental minutes for him... as the team looks forward to another championship run.
A bunch of people in this thread have been saying (or intimating) that he doesn’t work hard.
Whatever — I’m fine with the hate, since (a) it means he’s intriguing and on the national radar enough for guys like Stephen A to hate on him; and (b) to the extent that he needs any more motivation, it should motivate him to shut people up. (See Stephen Curry 2022, e.g.)
Yep. I can get behind him not knowing how to be a professional yet but accusations that the kid doesn't work hard seem to be easily disprovable.
Well said! I am in this line.
He's not wrong. The "player empowerment" era would have always been more aptly named the "superstar empowerment" era. Everyone else still mostly gets in where they fit in...although admittedly, Eric Bledsoe was able to force a trade out of Phoenix once lol.
I think that is more a product of him having 4 years left on his deal and his age. His threat to hold out rings extremely hollow because what is he going to do, throw away 4 seasons and get a new team when he is 38?
If KD had 1-2 years remaining on his deal, he'd be traded already.
If KD had 1-2 years left on his deal his trade value would be drastically lower because he’d be a threat to walk or even hold out almost immediately.
While I agree with PB that Durant’s behavior is not cool, I really don’t buy this ‘dudes with families … who haven’t got a job’ whining. These are millionaires who will all got jobs. KD’s shenanigans merely delays knowing where they will play.
Yes. Also consider the effect on families. They don’t know if tomorrow they’re going to have to take their kids out of school and immediately move to Toronto, for example.
True but it's First World problems.
Ok ok ... sure that is rough on families and I'm sympathetic.
I mean, PatBev isn't wrong. KD has the right to deal with his contract and team situation however he likes but Pat Bev is totally correct in that it does have a big downstream effect on other free agents and their salaries and playing situations for next year.
CP3 pushing for a Blake Griffin reunion? Lob(otomy) City?
I hope they succeed, will make them easier for the Warriors to beat.
Montrezl’s still available.
They’re also getting Saric back from injury.
...and all of his legal issues.
I don't remember Saric being much of a post-up guy - at least not with Philly.
Yeah, I don’t think he is, either. But I think he is a pretty traditional PF inasmuch he can’t guard fast wings.
You are correct there. One of the reasons he's on his 3rd team.
Not much of an in-demand commodity these days.