Klay Thompson leaves in sign-and-trade with DAL; GSW gets two late draft picks and $16m trade exception for more moves; also, De'Anthony Melton signs for $12.8 m / 1y
Klay Thompson leaves in sign-and-trade with DAL; GSW gets two late draft picks and $16m trade exception for more moves; also, De'Anthony Melton signs for $12.8 m / 1y
Perhaps I’m just wired differently but I’m not sad at all. The change was due. Both sides were ready to move on. 13 years is an incredible run. The first 9 were pretty awesome, and the surprising ‘22 ring was an amazing dollop of finality and pleasure. The Warriors did right by Klay all the way. If anything is a bummer it’s that Klay couldn’t find peace with the inevitable change that comes in the latter part of a career. It will be fun to watch him play with Luka.
Between Dray’s antics, Klay’s petulance, and everything that went down with JP in 2022, no wonder this team couldn’t get off the ground these last two years.
Melodramatic much? I /wish/ someone would beat me down with an offer of $48 million for two years. Yes, it is insulting, but I'd find a way to make it work... for the team's sake.
When you get to be one of the two best 3pt shooters in the NBA, WE MAY HAVE A DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER INSULT/DISRESPECT-TOLERANCE from the FO/YOUR COACH, IS A DESIRABLE ATTRIBUTE FOR A CORNERSTONE PLAYER OF A DYNASTIC TEAM. TILL THEN, KEEP DREAMING OF HOW THOSE NEGOTIATIONS SHOULD BE CONDUCTED. To his great credit, KLAY kept soldiering on, as he always did; MONEY was not the issue. KERR's BENCHING was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was also stupid and unwarranted; but I guess KERR, in the midst of an erratic season, temporarily lost his focus-an aberration- and temporarily joined the BEATDOWN CAMPAIGN. KLAY lost all faith in the FO/TEAM.
Agreed,It is pretty clear that Klay just wanted a change, it probably never had that much to do with money. I'm not sure that Klay is going to enjoy is time in Dallas with Luka and Kyrie hogging the ball on offense and having to defend 3 on 1s when Luka is back arguing with the ref and Kyrie just can't be bothered.
Maybe as much as he loved Steph and Dray he was tired of standing in their shadows or being part of a 3 some. And I heard from someone today that his father was a larger than life---very controlling figure---so whereas some people thought he would gravitate towards the Lakers---maybe he wanted to break free of all the constraints. That said I think he could have handled this transition better. Difficult for all and leaving everyone a bit sad, mad and done. Wish him well but won't miss the last year of Klay living in his head... Change can be good---
That's the maddening thing for me (how he handled the transition). It just doesn't seem that complicated to say, "My representatives and the team have not been able to come to an agreement that works for both sides. But while I'm saddened that this is the end of a storied chapter, I look forward to writing the next one. I want to thank the Warriors and their fans for everything over the past 13 years. Words will never be enough to express how I feel about you." Then see what's available in free agency, sign with the team of your choosing, and live your best life. Expect to return to Chase to standing ovations at 2-4 times a year.
It is also the past; KLAY led the NBA in catch-n-shoot most of his career. You may recall he only took 5 dribbles when he set the 37-point-record for most points in a QUARTER....
At the end of the day... the fact is Klay is not a good fit with the Warriors anymore, and the Warriors aren't a good spot for Klay. Pay is one thing, but playing time is the bigger issue. Klay has an opportunity to get more minutes and have a larger role on the Mavs, I don't fault him for wanting to choose that. I also don't fault the Warriors for not prioritizing his playing time over the needs of the team, either. It is what it is. A 13 year career with one team in the NBA is an anomaly already.
Inferred here that Klay asked Steph to not try to use his influence to get him to stay.
"Klay was firm on leaving & asked Steph to not intervene:
It’s been a layered five-year path to this divorce, splintering last season, sprouting earlier and finalizing in the last couple weeks, where —among the conversations Thompson had, league sources said — was a request of Stephen Curry not to exert his significant organizational influence and up the temperature with management to ensure Thompson’s return. Curry’s measured voice, even if it altered the outcome, wouldn’t change the genuineness of Joe Lacob and the front office’s true desire to have Thompson back."
Yeah, it's Klay's choice, and admittedly I have little in common temperamentally with most professional athletes, but if I had made $225M, secured my spot in the Hall of Fame, and earned a statue at Chase Center, there is no way in hell I would choose three years in Dallas over retirement in the Bahamas.
I make much less money and I've actively chosen against moving to Dallas a couple times. And I loved being in Tx! (When the politicians weren't actively attacking people like me)
I know many here are sad Klay is leaving ... I am not.
The team reasons are pretty well known: Klay's defense has fallen way off, his shooting comes and goes, and he does not adjust his shot selection very well.
For Klay: if he wins a title with Dallas, well, more power to him. I think it would be great (not as good as a Warriors chip of course). He probably wouldn't have gotten another one here.
But, there is also a life-lesson reason I think this will end up a positive: absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Klay seems to have harbored some resentment to the team. It seems the team was pretty reasonable with him ... they offered him an extension, he turned it down, and nothing moved. Eventually they prioritized a different transaction.
Klay is now going to see how the rest of the NBA world looks. I think and hope he'll enjoy his time in Dallas, but overall, he's going to run into differences and be reminded about the things that he loved playing for the Dubs. It will ease his post-retirement transition into a legacy Warrior great.
Oh, also, so long Klay, and thanks for all the swish. Klay always felt to me like the most ordinary of the key Warriors, the most relatably human, and his experiences and reactions this past year were no exception. I hope he's able to find some joy on the court with the Mavs, or wherever else he ends up before hanging up his Antas!
If there are no more rotation acquisitions, I'd love to see Moody, Kuminga & TJD start, at least for the first 10-15 games of the season. Lets see what they've worked on and what they're capable of. A lot of the unknowns about next season revolve around how good Moody & Kuminga are on defense, shooting, secondary playmaking, etc. I'd love to get a taste of what the chef's cooking with, and we'll probably quickly discover whether it's got exciting potential, if it's going to be a rough season, or if WGBC again.
They are going to need to give a whole new starting line-up more than 10-15 games to click. I absolutely do not want Kerr to have a quick hook on anyone not named Wigs, Steph, or Dray, like he did in the pretty sad 2022-23 season.
He was fairly ordinary on the court as well, lol, other than being a historically fabulous three-point shooter — which, granted, is a huge deal in the modern NBA.
Beyond his D (which I think was more very good than great at his peak, and had declined to pretty bad post injury) I always thought one of his most extra-ordinary offensive skills was his ability to stop on a dime, square up, and knock down shots at full sprint when the Kerrball O was revving on all cylinders. Without looking at the data, I think (after the D) that may the most notable ability he lost post-injury. While he was (is) still lethal curling off screens and squaring up, that full-gallop launch almost never seemed to fall for him in recent years.
Anyway, the whole thing is sad, but I think the saddest part by far remains the injury in ‘19, followed by just the general, inevitable sadness of him and his two running mates aging out of their period of dominance.
One of the risks of extending Kuminga this summer is that he benefitted from the set up last season and that won't be the set up next season, something we recently saw happen with Poole. Kuminga is great at taking advantage of advantages that others like Klay create by drawing defensive attention, but he doesn't create advantages himself. It's always assumed that the trade value will go up, but as we saw with Wiseman that is not a guarantee.
All of this is to assume JK is who he is at this point and won’t develop any further? He won’t ever be able to create himself? His 3pt and mid range got better from his first year did it not?
It's also assuming there are no adjustments to be made. The team realized it was deficient in shooting and brought in some shooters. Kerr will have more tools next year to work around floor spacing issues.
His 3pt shooting this year was his worst ever. So far, he is not improving in this area, and if he remains a worse 3 point threat than Draymond, his value will be an uphill battle.
He should hopefully get better (although if the situation deteriorates then it might not matter a la Poole), but trade value is also a reflection of your salary and his salary is soon to skyrocket.
Your Curry/Klay/Kuminga stats are capitalizing on good stats of Kuminga with Curry, which will still be the case. The Kuminga/Klay stats make it the 20th best net-rating 2-man lineup of the 32 lineups with over 500 minutes. In contrast, the Curry/Kuminga stat peg it at the 8th best net-rating 2-man lineup of those 32 lineups.
I think beli's point is not that losing Klay will hurt Kuminga all the time, but that Kuminga can't be the focal point of the non-Steph minutes. I don't necessarily agree, as development happens... but it's a valid point.
Its a valid concern, but the stats used to make the point do not make it because they compare Kuminga with Curry AND Klay vs. Kuminga without Curry AND Klay. As my post showed, however, pairing Kuminga with Klay leads to poor team performance. In contrast, pairing Kuminga with Curry leads to good team performance. By combining Curry and Klay the poster inadvertantly masks that the drop-off was the result of the Kuminga/Klay pairing, the very pairing they are suggesting is going to be costly to lose as Klay heads to Dallas. But the stats say that Klay going to the bench actually improves team performance when Kuminga is on the court. Thus, the OP's comparison doesn't tell us Kuminga is going to miss Klay.
More on point would be a stat that compares how Kuminga did with Curry vs. without Curry, ignoring Klay. Statmuse says "Jonathan Kuminga averaged 15.7 points, 4.9 rebounds and 2.2 assists in 66 games with Stephen Curry in 2023-24." Statmuse also says "Jonathan Kuminga averaged 18.8 points, 4.1 rebounds and 2.6 assists in 8 games without Stephen Curry in 2023-24." I assume this is whole games, and I'd prefer actual line-ups, and further more advanced stats would be nice, and maybe someone else can find them, but, so far:
I'm depressed about Klay. I thought Dray was the most likely to split, and after his last deal I thought we could surpass the Spurs big 3 by longevity at least. The Warriors are taking the high road, but in the moment I'm wondering if Curry/Dray/Iguodala was really the big 3. The most loyal 3, at least. In reality, they are probably combined the big 4.
I think Klay will do well with the Mavs, but I don't think they are winning a title. This year felt like an anomaly, and I think other teams (Thunder, 76ers, Knicks) improved much more. I don't think I can root for him on the Mavs, which feels a bit sick. These are tough times.
Regardless, no outright Klay slander can be tolerated. One of the greatest dubs of all time. Historic shooter who is going to keep historically shooting it for his new team. I am just sad he didn't want to keep shooting it for us. And no, some guy named Lindy Waters, who the Thunder gave away for nothing and no one here had heard of a few days ago, is not a replacement for one of the top 5 shooters in history. But, we must move on.
Edit: to add to my depression, Rocco (12 years old, breed average 8-10 year lifespan) is going to pass away in the unfamiliar streets of Texas. Klay's sublime bay boating to Chase replaced with an emotionless commute in the gridlock. No ring will be added to Klay's warchest. We scream into the void, what is the point?!?!
I'm pretty bummed out too about the situation - def about the big 3 breaking up but just in general about Klay but if you can step back a little and view it as not a basketball situation which i think is more the cause and how most fans are viewing it and just as a person standpoint, then you wont feel as bad necessarily.
I mean you'd be sad to have one of your best friends leave to go to another job/city but you'd be a little more ok with it if you thought he would be happy/not depressed if he tried something different elsewhere (you can never know if it will be better but its better than just suffering thru something you know you dont like)
The issue to me just seems like of the 3, Klay's play/skill - whatever you want to call/lump it as, was aging the worse and was the more replaceable or needing replacement. No one even close to Curry, and for all the headache of Dray - we dont really have much of a replacement(s) either.
People handle changes differently and Klay for as such a unique and cool guy he is - didnt like the situation and didnt handle/accept it in his mind. It really doesnt matter what anyone else does or did - if he didnt like it, there's almost nothing you can do. Like a marriage where the other side just doesnt see things the same way anymore or doesnt want to make the relationship work anymore.
While the desire to have championships and more money etc are a factor/influence, players are still just humans. lets remember the good times and wish him and the dubs have more good times to go forward. this is a lot less depressing and sad than if he had passed away - he's relatively young and has lots of life to live hopefully.
It’s ok Bro, accept the sadness. In a few months you will find new sports heroes to fall in love with. And Klay will bring new bittersweet moments as he has crazy shooting nights, or returns to SF to play, or is fêted here in retirement.
I won’t be rooting for him. I never watched Mavs games anyway unless, of course, they’re playing the Warriors. I appreciate Klay’s time with the Warriors. But he’s the enemy now, so no rooting from me. 🤨
I know the roster isn't complete yet, but I've been thinking about the starting lineup options and I'm not convinced Draymond should start. Steph / Melton / Wiggins (?) / Kuminga / TJD feels like a pretty solid starting lineup.
Last year Draymond averaged ~27 min per game, and it seems like next year 24-28 minutes is a reasonable average for him to target. If he's closing games but only playing 24-28 minutes per game, it seems like sitting at the start and making Kuminga could make a lot of sense. It feels like Dray shouldn't play next to Kuminga unless Dray's playing the 5, and he might finish games that way but he shouldn't start them at the 5.
Separately, now that Klay has left the team and it's unlikely that the Steph/Klay/Dray will retire together, I'm more open to Draymond being traded as well. I'm not saying that they should trade him right now, I think I'm just more ready for it than if they had broken up the big 3 by trading away dray a year or two ago.
I think that starting lineup looks better if Draymond is starting in place of Kuminga tbh, the Wiggins/Kuminga pairing was awful last season unless Draymond was playing center.
It's pretty hard to sit Draymond given his defense and how he runs the offense. I think they might start Dray and bench Wiggins. Dunno.
Regarding Klay, I have a feeling the Warriors might do one of those phony late career things where they reaquire Klay just to say they all retired together. I hate that symbolic stuff, it puts a phony spin on things.
On Klay ‘retiring as a Warrior’ I don’t mind such antics. Just a little bit of heart and emotion instead of the more usual ‘it’s a business’ harshness is ok with me.
Part of the reason I'm thinking about Dray coming off the bench is that players have talked about how hard it is keep any kind of rhythm if you start the game, close the game, and only end up playing ~24 minutes. You end up with just huge amounts of wall-clock time where you're on the bench in the middle of the game. Having Dray on the bench for the first 4-6 minutes could help with that.
I also think Melton/ Wiggs / Kuminga / TJD is pretty solid 2-5 defensively except I think they would lack the presence of a communicator on the backline to organize things.
With the roster as constructed they are probably going to need two of Curry, Dray, & Podz on the court at all times or the Offense will be tough sledding. Wait who am I kidding they have a guard signed to a two way so that’s a guaranteed 20 min per game once they sit out enough games early.
We have a time machine in the basement. I don't like to use it a lot because of the Doom Effect (long story) but I pulled it out to get an article from June of next year.
"Warriors Defeat Boston to Hand Curry Fifth Title."
TD Garden: Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors defeated the Boston Celtics in a surprising sweep last night that showcased the newfound depth of the team. Finals MVP Curry poured in 44 points, young All-Star and dunk competition winner Jonathan Kuminga contributed 37 on 14-14 shooting, and newcomers Lindy Waters, De'Anthony Melton, and rookie Quentin Post were all 6-6 from three point range in a night to remember for the Warriors. The Warriors overwhelmed Boston on defense with impressive contributions from Trayce Jackson-Davis (11 blocks), Gary Payton II (19 steals), and ferocious efforts from leader Draymond Green, who had six steals, six blocks, six points, six assists, six rebounds, and six technical fouls. In a spirited locker-room celebration, Green exulted i"I told y'all not to let us win another fuckin' championship!" and Curry added, "Am I smelling old champagne or new right now?"
Mavericks 6th man and former Warrior Klay Thompson, whose team lost to the Warriors in the first round of the playoffs, was not immediately available for comment.
In the next day's paper they mentioned it should've read 91 steals. Boston didn't get a single shot attempt, coughing up ball after ball to Young Glove
I can go check next day's paper. There's a small but nonzero chance that doing so soon after my last use of the machine would lead to a fatal collapse of all atomic structures in the known universe; please advise if it seems worth it.
OK, I just checked: Looks like some stocks prices will be up from their current level, while others will dip. And yet other stock prices will be about the same as they are now.
I guarantee that information. It's a reliable time machine. Don't laugh at Rusty, she gets the job done.
Klay Thompson, who went 0-for-14 in the first quarter of the Mavs elimination game, was benched at the insistence of Luka and Kyrie and spent the second quarter screaming "No Respect!", "You think I care?" and "You don't know what we do!" from the bench before being escorted into the locker room by security. He did not come out for the second half.
You know what's amazing about that? I totally forgot Klay's last game was such a stinker. God, what a way to go out. Also helps justify not re-signing him. One game shouldn't tell us much but that was a really bad one.
The thing about all this "respect" and so on is that basketball is almost entirely merit-based and almost entirely out in the open. The reasons that the Warriors didn't respect Klay were visible to the entire world. You want basketball respect? Hit your threes, play tight defense, don't keep shooting when you're cold. No mysteries, no back room shenanigans to blame. In most jobs you can blame office politics but if Klay had hit played last year like he had in his best years, he would have been re-signed without hesitation. Sucks to get old, Klay, some of us have done even more of it than you have.
In my middle of the night musings I was thinking of that goose egg in Klays last game. Makes me think he laid it in purpose. And rather than blame management---maybe Klays attitude and inconsistency was equally if not more to blame. Always thought Klay was quirky, but it turns out he was full of himself. Never works well in a team sport when you think you are owed $$$ for past acheivements.
The Utah Jazz remain willing to help facilitate Kris Dunn’s departure to the Los Angeles Clippers through sign and trade, as the Clippers continue to search for a new home for point guard Russell Westbrook, likely via a third team
Farewell Klay!
I guess I need a new handle... *sigh
Olympic qualifiying, Gui with 9/8 (3/5 shooting, no 3pt attempts) (and 2 steals) in 21 mins in win.
https://www.fiba.basketball/en/events/fiba-olympic-qualifying-tournament-2024-riga-latvia/games/121085-BRA-MNE#boxscore
It would be hilarious if Gui were the one to take the giant step this coming season...
Perhaps I’m just wired differently but I’m not sad at all. The change was due. Both sides were ready to move on. 13 years is an incredible run. The first 9 were pretty awesome, and the surprising ‘22 ring was an amazing dollop of finality and pleasure. The Warriors did right by Klay all the way. If anything is a bummer it’s that Klay couldn’t find peace with the inevitable change that comes in the latter part of a career. It will be fun to watch him play with Luka.
Slater’s recent article was pretty eye opening.
Between Dray’s antics, Klay’s petulance, and everything that went down with JP in 2022, no wonder this team couldn’t get off the ground these last two years.
KLAY DESERVED BETTER than the BEATDOWN he got from the DUBS FO this last season. KLAY'S LOSS = IRREPLACEABLE = END OF AN ERA AND DYNASTY
Melodramatic much? I /wish/ someone would beat me down with an offer of $48 million for two years. Yes, it is insulting, but I'd find a way to make it work... for the team's sake.
When you get to be one of the two best 3pt shooters in the NBA, WE MAY HAVE A DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER INSULT/DISRESPECT-TOLERANCE from the FO/YOUR COACH, IS A DESIRABLE ATTRIBUTE FOR A CORNERSTONE PLAYER OF A DYNASTIC TEAM. TILL THEN, KEEP DREAMING OF HOW THOSE NEGOTIATIONS SHOULD BE CONDUCTED. To his great credit, KLAY kept soldiering on, as he always did; MONEY was not the issue. KERR's BENCHING was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was also stupid and unwarranted; but I guess KERR, in the midst of an erratic season, temporarily lost his focus-an aberration- and temporarily joined the BEATDOWN CAMPAIGN. KLAY lost all faith in the FO/TEAM.
Agreed,It is pretty clear that Klay just wanted a change, it probably never had that much to do with money. I'm not sure that Klay is going to enjoy is time in Dallas with Luka and Kyrie hogging the ball on offense and having to defend 3 on 1s when Luka is back arguing with the ref and Kyrie just can't be bothered.
Maybe as much as he loved Steph and Dray he was tired of standing in their shadows or being part of a 3 some. And I heard from someone today that his father was a larger than life---very controlling figure---so whereas some people thought he would gravitate towards the Lakers---maybe he wanted to break free of all the constraints. That said I think he could have handled this transition better. Difficult for all and leaving everyone a bit sad, mad and done. Wish him well but won't miss the last year of Klay living in his head... Change can be good---
That's the maddening thing for me (how he handled the transition). It just doesn't seem that complicated to say, "My representatives and the team have not been able to come to an agreement that works for both sides. But while I'm saddened that this is the end of a storied chapter, I look forward to writing the next one. I want to thank the Warriors and their fans for everything over the past 13 years. Words will never be enough to express how I feel about you." Then see what's available in free agency, sign with the team of your choosing, and live your best life. Expect to return to Chase to standing ovations at 2-4 times a year.
Maybe he’ll enjoy offense where his job is to stand still in a corner and hope Luka kicks it out to him with 2 seconds left on the shot clock
This is the future. Klay will be good at this.
It is also the past; KLAY led the NBA in catch-n-shoot most of his career. You may recall he only took 5 dribbles when he set the 37-point-record for most points in a QUARTER....
At the end of the day... the fact is Klay is not a good fit with the Warriors anymore, and the Warriors aren't a good spot for Klay. Pay is one thing, but playing time is the bigger issue. Klay has an opportunity to get more minutes and have a larger role on the Mavs, I don't fault him for wanting to choose that. I also don't fault the Warriors for not prioritizing his playing time over the needs of the team, either. It is what it is. A 13 year career with one team in the NBA is an anomaly already.
I'm at peace with his departure.
Inferred here that Klay asked Steph to not try to use his influence to get him to stay.
"Klay was firm on leaving & asked Steph to not intervene:
It’s been a layered five-year path to this divorce, splintering last season, sprouting earlier and finalizing in the last couple weeks, where —among the conversations Thompson had, league sources said — was a request of Stephen Curry not to exert his significant organizational influence and up the temperature with management to ensure Thompson’s return. Curry’s measured voice, even if it altered the outcome, wouldn’t change the genuineness of Joe Lacob and the front office’s true desire to have Thompson back."
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1dtlmdx/slater_its_been_a_layered_5yr_path_to_this/
So it seems like we couldn't play Moody without Klay losing his shit.
Guessing they told Klay the plan was to play Podz and Moody more and that was the end for Klay.
Klay will have an easier time with Mavs fans but man is he going to hate living in Texas.
Yeah, it's Klay's choice, and admittedly I have little in common temperamentally with most professional athletes, but if I had made $225M, secured my spot in the Hall of Fame, and earned a statue at Chase Center, there is no way in hell I would choose three years in Dallas over retirement in the Bahamas.
Depends on the city of course…but yeah I did not enjoy where I lived when I was out there.
San Antonio and Austin were pretty cool though.
Or three years in Dallas over two years aligned with Steph’s contract in the beautiful city by the Bay.
I make much less money and I've actively chosen against moving to Dallas a couple times. And I loved being in Tx! (When the politicians weren't actively attacking people like me)
> I make much less money
#humblebrag 😜
And it's all over now baby blue
I know many here are sad Klay is leaving ... I am not.
The team reasons are pretty well known: Klay's defense has fallen way off, his shooting comes and goes, and he does not adjust his shot selection very well.
For Klay: if he wins a title with Dallas, well, more power to him. I think it would be great (not as good as a Warriors chip of course). He probably wouldn't have gotten another one here.
But, there is also a life-lesson reason I think this will end up a positive: absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Klay seems to have harbored some resentment to the team. It seems the team was pretty reasonable with him ... they offered him an extension, he turned it down, and nothing moved. Eventually they prioritized a different transaction.
Klay is now going to see how the rest of the NBA world looks. I think and hope he'll enjoy his time in Dallas, but overall, he's going to run into differences and be reminded about the things that he loved playing for the Dubs. It will ease his post-retirement transition into a legacy Warrior great.
I for one look forward to Klay settling the debate 5 years from now that Luka isn't better than Curry was
Oh, also, so long Klay, and thanks for all the swish. Klay always felt to me like the most ordinary of the key Warriors, the most relatably human, and his experiences and reactions this past year were no exception. I hope he's able to find some joy on the court with the Mavs, or wherever else he ends up before hanging up his Antas!
If there are no more rotation acquisitions, I'd love to see Moody, Kuminga & TJD start, at least for the first 10-15 games of the season. Lets see what they've worked on and what they're capable of. A lot of the unknowns about next season revolve around how good Moody & Kuminga are on defense, shooting, secondary playmaking, etc. I'd love to get a taste of what the chef's cooking with, and we'll probably quickly discover whether it's got exciting potential, if it's going to be a rough season, or if WGBC again.
They are going to need to give a whole new starting line-up more than 10-15 games to click. I absolutely do not want Kerr to have a quick hook on anyone not named Wigs, Steph, or Dray, like he did in the pretty sad 2022-23 season.
He was fairly ordinary on the court as well, lol, other than being a historically fabulous three-point shooter — which, granted, is a huge deal in the modern NBA.
Beyond his D (which I think was more very good than great at his peak, and had declined to pretty bad post injury) I always thought one of his most extra-ordinary offensive skills was his ability to stop on a dime, square up, and knock down shots at full sprint when the Kerrball O was revving on all cylinders. Without looking at the data, I think (after the D) that may the most notable ability he lost post-injury. While he was (is) still lethal curling off screens and squaring up, that full-gallop launch almost never seemed to fall for him in recent years.
Anyway, the whole thing is sad, but I think the saddest part by far remains the injury in ‘19, followed by just the general, inevitable sadness of him and his two running mates aging out of their period of dominance.
I will always hate Danny Green for this.
> Kuminga with Curry and Klay on the floor:
> • 20.4 pts on +2.6 rTS
> • 52.5% rim frequency
> Kuminga without Curry and Klay (which will increase going forward):
> • 23 pts on -5.9 rTS
> • 29.9% Rim Frequency
https://x.com/BBall_Archives/status/1807584795200745759
One of the risks of extending Kuminga this summer is that he benefitted from the set up last season and that won't be the set up next season, something we recently saw happen with Poole. Kuminga is great at taking advantage of advantages that others like Klay create by drawing defensive attention, but he doesn't create advantages himself. It's always assumed that the trade value will go up, but as we saw with Wiseman that is not a guarantee.
All of this is to assume JK is who he is at this point and won’t develop any further? He won’t ever be able to create himself? His 3pt and mid range got better from his first year did it not?
It's also assuming there are no adjustments to be made. The team realized it was deficient in shooting and brought in some shooters. Kerr will have more tools next year to work around floor spacing issues.
His 3pt shooting this year was his worst ever. So far, he is not improving in this area, and if he remains a worse 3 point threat than Draymond, his value will be an uphill battle.
He should hopefully get better (although if the situation deteriorates then it might not matter a la Poole), but trade value is also a reflection of your salary and his salary is soon to skyrocket.
Kuminga/Curry vs. Kuminga/Klay
K/C ORtg 116.6, DRtg 111.3, Net 5.3
K/K ORtg 113.9, DRtg 111.9, Net 2.0
Your Curry/Klay/Kuminga stats are capitalizing on good stats of Kuminga with Curry, which will still be the case. The Kuminga/Klay stats make it the 20th best net-rating 2-man lineup of the 32 lineups with over 500 minutes. In contrast, the Curry/Kuminga stat peg it at the 8th best net-rating 2-man lineup of those 32 lineups.
Considering last year's results, Klay's absence probably won't harm Kuminga's performance.
I think beli's point is not that losing Klay will hurt Kuminga all the time, but that Kuminga can't be the focal point of the non-Steph minutes. I don't necessarily agree, as development happens... but it's a valid point.
Its a valid concern, but the stats used to make the point do not make it because they compare Kuminga with Curry AND Klay vs. Kuminga without Curry AND Klay. As my post showed, however, pairing Kuminga with Klay leads to poor team performance. In contrast, pairing Kuminga with Curry leads to good team performance. By combining Curry and Klay the poster inadvertantly masks that the drop-off was the result of the Kuminga/Klay pairing, the very pairing they are suggesting is going to be costly to lose as Klay heads to Dallas. But the stats say that Klay going to the bench actually improves team performance when Kuminga is on the court. Thus, the OP's comparison doesn't tell us Kuminga is going to miss Klay.
More on point would be a stat that compares how Kuminga did with Curry vs. without Curry, ignoring Klay. Statmuse says "Jonathan Kuminga averaged 15.7 points, 4.9 rebounds and 2.2 assists in 66 games with Stephen Curry in 2023-24." Statmuse also says "Jonathan Kuminga averaged 18.8 points, 4.1 rebounds and 2.6 assists in 8 games without Stephen Curry in 2023-24." I assume this is whole games, and I'd prefer actual line-ups, and further more advanced stats would be nice, and maybe someone else can find them, but, so far:
w/ Curry 15.7pts, 4.9rb, 2.2ast
w/o Curry 18.8pts, 4.1rb, 2.6ast
I'm not worried.
I'm depressed about Klay. I thought Dray was the most likely to split, and after his last deal I thought we could surpass the Spurs big 3 by longevity at least. The Warriors are taking the high road, but in the moment I'm wondering if Curry/Dray/Iguodala was really the big 3. The most loyal 3, at least. In reality, they are probably combined the big 4.
I think Klay will do well with the Mavs, but I don't think they are winning a title. This year felt like an anomaly, and I think other teams (Thunder, 76ers, Knicks) improved much more. I don't think I can root for him on the Mavs, which feels a bit sick. These are tough times.
Regardless, no outright Klay slander can be tolerated. One of the greatest dubs of all time. Historic shooter who is going to keep historically shooting it for his new team. I am just sad he didn't want to keep shooting it for us. And no, some guy named Lindy Waters, who the Thunder gave away for nothing and no one here had heard of a few days ago, is not a replacement for one of the top 5 shooters in history. But, we must move on.
Edit: to add to my depression, Rocco (12 years old, breed average 8-10 year lifespan) is going to pass away in the unfamiliar streets of Texas. Klay's sublime bay boating to Chase replaced with an emotionless commute in the gridlock. No ring will be added to Klay's warchest. We scream into the void, what is the point?!?!
I'm pretty bummed out too about the situation - def about the big 3 breaking up but just in general about Klay but if you can step back a little and view it as not a basketball situation which i think is more the cause and how most fans are viewing it and just as a person standpoint, then you wont feel as bad necessarily.
I mean you'd be sad to have one of your best friends leave to go to another job/city but you'd be a little more ok with it if you thought he would be happy/not depressed if he tried something different elsewhere (you can never know if it will be better but its better than just suffering thru something you know you dont like)
The issue to me just seems like of the 3, Klay's play/skill - whatever you want to call/lump it as, was aging the worse and was the more replaceable or needing replacement. No one even close to Curry, and for all the headache of Dray - we dont really have much of a replacement(s) either.
People handle changes differently and Klay for as such a unique and cool guy he is - didnt like the situation and didnt handle/accept it in his mind. It really doesnt matter what anyone else does or did - if he didnt like it, there's almost nothing you can do. Like a marriage where the other side just doesnt see things the same way anymore or doesnt want to make the relationship work anymore.
While the desire to have championships and more money etc are a factor/influence, players are still just humans. lets remember the good times and wish him and the dubs have more good times to go forward. this is a lot less depressing and sad than if he had passed away - he's relatively young and has lots of life to live hopefully.
It’s ok Bro, accept the sadness. In a few months you will find new sports heroes to fall in love with. And Klay will bring new bittersweet moments as he has crazy shooting nights, or returns to SF to play, or is fêted here in retirement.
My thoughts exactly. I don't know if I am mourning the end of the trio or Klay leaving.
I won’t be rooting for him. I never watched Mavs games anyway unless, of course, they’re playing the Warriors. I appreciate Klay’s time with the Warriors. But he’s the enemy now, so no rooting from me. 🤨
I'mma still root for him in games where it has no bearing on us. But I'll be more torn about rooting for the rest of his team.
I know the roster isn't complete yet, but I've been thinking about the starting lineup options and I'm not convinced Draymond should start. Steph / Melton / Wiggins (?) / Kuminga / TJD feels like a pretty solid starting lineup.
Last year Draymond averaged ~27 min per game, and it seems like next year 24-28 minutes is a reasonable average for him to target. If he's closing games but only playing 24-28 minutes per game, it seems like sitting at the start and making Kuminga could make a lot of sense. It feels like Dray shouldn't play next to Kuminga unless Dray's playing the 5, and he might finish games that way but he shouldn't start them at the 5.
Separately, now that Klay has left the team and it's unlikely that the Steph/Klay/Dray will retire together, I'm more open to Draymond being traded as well. I'm not saying that they should trade him right now, I think I'm just more ready for it than if they had broken up the big 3 by trading away dray a year or two ago.
Imagine thinking Dray is sitting on the bench to start the year…and being traded after signing a 4 year deal
If Defense is the goal you probably don’t want to start the three worst DBPM players on the returning roster along with a quiet C and a new guy.
There’s also little passing aside from Curry in that group so the Offense might be mighty challenging as well.
Putting Moody in for Wiggins in that lineup at least gives you a TS% boost and a defensive boost too.
Melton is a pretty great defender.
Moody is not giving a defensive boost over Wiggins man. That’s just wishful thinking, unless his feet get a lot quicker and his angles a lot better.
I think that starting lineup looks better if Draymond is starting in place of Kuminga tbh, the Wiggins/Kuminga pairing was awful last season unless Draymond was playing center.
It's pretty hard to sit Draymond given his defense and how he runs the offense. I think they might start Dray and bench Wiggins. Dunno.
Regarding Klay, I have a feeling the Warriors might do one of those phony late career things where they reaquire Klay just to say they all retired together. I hate that symbolic stuff, it puts a phony spin on things.
On Klay ‘retiring as a Warrior’ I don’t mind such antics. Just a little bit of heart and emotion instead of the more usual ‘it’s a business’ harshness is ok with me.
Part of the reason I'm thinking about Dray coming off the bench is that players have talked about how hard it is keep any kind of rhythm if you start the game, close the game, and only end up playing ~24 minutes. You end up with just huge amounts of wall-clock time where you're on the bench in the middle of the game. Having Dray on the bench for the first 4-6 minutes could help with that.
I also think Melton/ Wiggs / Kuminga / TJD is pretty solid 2-5 defensively except I think they would lack the presence of a communicator on the backline to organize things.
With the roster as constructed they are probably going to need two of Curry, Dray, & Podz on the court at all times or the Offense will be tough sledding. Wait who am I kidding they have a guard signed to a two way so that’s a guaranteed 20 min per game once they sit out enough games early.
We have a time machine in the basement. I don't like to use it a lot because of the Doom Effect (long story) but I pulled it out to get an article from June of next year.
"Warriors Defeat Boston to Hand Curry Fifth Title."
TD Garden: Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors defeated the Boston Celtics in a surprising sweep last night that showcased the newfound depth of the team. Finals MVP Curry poured in 44 points, young All-Star and dunk competition winner Jonathan Kuminga contributed 37 on 14-14 shooting, and newcomers Lindy Waters, De'Anthony Melton, and rookie Quentin Post were all 6-6 from three point range in a night to remember for the Warriors. The Warriors overwhelmed Boston on defense with impressive contributions from Trayce Jackson-Davis (11 blocks), Gary Payton II (19 steals), and ferocious efforts from leader Draymond Green, who had six steals, six blocks, six points, six assists, six rebounds, and six technical fouls. In a spirited locker-room celebration, Green exulted i"I told y'all not to let us win another fuckin' championship!" and Curry added, "Am I smelling old champagne or new right now?"
Mavericks 6th man and former Warrior Klay Thompson, whose team lost to the Warriors in the first round of the playoffs, was not immediately available for comment.
> Gary Payton II (19 steals)
This was (obviously) a misprint.
In the next day's paper they mentioned it should've read 91 steals. Boston didn't get a single shot attempt, coughing up ball after ball to Young Glove
I can go check next day's paper. There's a small but nonzero chance that doing so soon after my last use of the machine would lead to a fatal collapse of all atomic structures in the known universe; please advise if it seems worth it.
Dream on!
Tell me about the stock market and election please while you’re at it.
OK, I just checked: Looks like some stocks prices will be up from their current level, while others will dip. And yet other stock prices will be about the same as they are now.
I guarantee that information. It's a reliable time machine. Don't laugh at Rusty, she gets the job done.
You forgot the last paragraph of the news report.
Klay Thompson, who went 0-for-14 in the first quarter of the Mavs elimination game, was benched at the insistence of Luka and Kyrie and spent the second quarter screaming "No Respect!", "You think I care?" and "You don't know what we do!" from the bench before being escorted into the locker room by security. He did not come out for the second half.
You know what's amazing about that? I totally forgot Klay's last game was such a stinker. God, what a way to go out. Also helps justify not re-signing him. One game shouldn't tell us much but that was a really bad one.
The thing about all this "respect" and so on is that basketball is almost entirely merit-based and almost entirely out in the open. The reasons that the Warriors didn't respect Klay were visible to the entire world. You want basketball respect? Hit your threes, play tight defense, don't keep shooting when you're cold. No mysteries, no back room shenanigans to blame. In most jobs you can blame office politics but if Klay had hit played last year like he had in his best years, he would have been re-signed without hesitation. Sucks to get old, Klay, some of us have done even more of it than you have.
In my middle of the night musings I was thinking of that goose egg in Klays last game. Makes me think he laid it in purpose. And rather than blame management---maybe Klays attitude and inconsistency was equally if not more to blame. Always thought Klay was quirky, but it turns out he was full of himself. Never works well in a team sport when you think you are owed $$$ for past acheivements.
Free agent center Daniel Theis has drawn interest from a handful of teams including the Grizzlies, Pelicans and Bucks
https://x.com/KellyIko/status/1808010182409990476
The Dubs can now afford him. Why wouldn’t they be interested?
The Utah Jazz remain willing to help facilitate Kris Dunn’s departure to the Los Angeles Clippers through sign and trade, as the Clippers continue to search for a new home for point guard Russell Westbrook, likely via a third team
https://x.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1808002916814672299