Compelling facts and analysis! But I'm skeptical of predictions... while hopeful in my fandom. During the game against Portland Fitz mentioned Scoot is 19 and CP3 has been in the league 19 seasons; CP3 is contributing, and barring injuries. Can continue to do so! With my rose colored fan glasses on, Steph "can do all things", Klay is getting his groove back, and Wiggs is making the effort to restore his 2-way Wiggs status. As long as the team thrives, I can accept shifting roles and stat declines. The only sure thing is that salary will determine our tolerance for changes in performance over time.

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot

I just re-read my journal entry from 2 years ago: "Watched SC30 do what he does. Such a privilege 🤍"

So I looked up what game it was and it was the game against the Clippers where he got T'd up and then went "Psycho Steph" and T'd up ref 😂


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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

Great, great game. In some ways, not my favorite Steph, as this really highlights his petty side. But it was just too good.

And there was a Chiozza sighting. 8-0

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Wow, what a game. Thank you, that was fun.

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That was a really fun moment. I remember it every time they mention Marat Kogut is in the reffing crew.

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Clippers sucking down the stretch. Down 4, Westbrook gets fouled - airballs first FT, then misses the next one too. Clips down 9 with 30 seconds left, and have been outscored 34-14 in the fourth.

This at home against a team playing second game of a back-to-back without Jokic, Murray, and Gordon.

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I also watched that game last night. It was a real delight, especially after seeing the Lakers getting curb stomped to a 44 point loss.

Clearly the Clips were gassed. PG played terribly the whole game, and Kawhi could not carry them alone. In the 4th quarter they were like statues on defense, calmly doing nothing while the Denver reserves jauntily skipped by them to the rim.

The dude has been in the league for ages, but this is the first time I really enjoyed watching d’Andre Jordan do his thing. Nearly useless on defense but Zubac couldn’t cover him the other way either. Some of those Reggie Jackson lobs to Jordan were a real gift from the gods of old school basketball.

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Steve Kerr take notes:

>"This at home against a team playing second game of a back-to-back without Jokic, Murray, and Gordon."


THAT is how you load manage.

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By having guys injured?

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No. By having guys "injured" and still winning the game.

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We beat Cleveland and the Pels away last year with the B team. Maybe it’s Mike Malone and you who should be taking notes.

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Wow. So saucy in response to a silly joke. . . . Maybe cut back on the coffee?

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Or maybe a saucy joke?

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Nuggets beat the Clippers 113-104 by outscoring them 36-16 in the 4th Q. Nuggets went 11/16 FGs while the Clippers went 4/17 FGs in the 4th Q. Nuggets move to 12-6 while the Clippers fall to 7-9.

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Somehow without Jokic, Murray, Gordon, the Nuggets are gonna beat the Clippers in LA. Reggie Jackson with the game of his life. Hope the Dubs are taking notes, playing them twice this week.

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Steph doesn’t really have a comparison in basketball. No ones dominated to this extent based on preternatural skill and feel over the physical.

He’s more like Joe in Football. Or Ben Hogan in golf. My favorite that makes a lot of sense in my mind is Greg Maddux. A sneaky good athlete and all around player who dominated by being the best ever at one thing.

Maddux was the best for a long time. Then among the best for a while. Then was basically good but not all star level until he decided to stop playing.

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If you include relievers, Mariano Rivera as well. Dude had one pitch, but it was really really good pitch.

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Maddux was also the benefactor of an uber generous strike zone. Steph defn isnt the benefactor of any calls going his way

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Everyone got wide strikes then. Maddux was just better at pitching to the edges of the strike zone they were calling. He was also the best pitcher in an era where there was rampant steroid abuse by both hitters and pitchers and he's about as clear of suspicion as any player of that era could possibly be.

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

KCP and MPJ can't shoot, but Reggie Jackson is shooting lights out, and DeAndre Jordan looks good. Meanwhile, PG can't shoot, and Kawhi is taking more shots than he needs to, but Zubac looks very good. Clippers should win this game with the Nuggets missing Jokic and Murray and the Nuggets playing against the Spurs in Denver last night, but it's a close game for some reason.

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Gordon's also out for the Nuggets tonight

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Omg… tuned into the Den/LAC game… two sequences stood out:

1. 3 straight transition layup attempts run straight at the shot blocker for easy blocks.

2. Haren tries the ol’ let the ball roll to half court and then pick it up in an attempt to get a quick 2-for-1… but fumbles the pickup straight into Watson’s hands, then fouls Watson to give Denver a 2-for-1… only for Watson to brick both FTs… only for nobody on the clippers to actually box him out or go for the rebound, so Watson got his own rebound, then threw an errant pass which his teammate tried to save, but slid out of bounds. It’s A Great Time Out!

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

Been kind of busy but this is what I want to see this seaosn, a roster being used and playing to at least 85%-90% of their potential. If all the players do this, then I can live with the results and enjoy rooting for them.

It's still to soon for me to decide for myself what this looks like, but the next couple of months will be really interesting with dray coming back, the schedule getting easier, and the clock ticking to demonstrate that this season the team is a true contender.

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Alright im here with receipts, EA: The criteria: high draft pick that was or is potentially a bust (especially if the next player is at least currently or was at least a replacement level starter), corresponding picks playability ie rotation or previous contributing rotation player (or starter) so without further ado.

2013 NBA Draft


Jabari Parker

Damian Inglish

Johnny O’Bryant III

2014 NBA Draft (Cleveland probably at same level of bad as Warriors

Anthony Bennett

Sergey Karasev

Carrie Felix

2015 NBA Draft (Philadelphia)

Jahlil Okafor

Willie Hernangomez (traded)

Richaun Holmes

Arturas Gudadis

JP Tokoko

2016 NBA Draft (Phoenix)

Dragan Bender

Tyler Ulis

2017 NBa Dradt (Sacramento)

Josh Jackson

Davon Reed

Alex Peters

2018 (Sacramento )

Marvon Bagley

Gary Trent Jr (traded)

2019 (Suns)

Jarrett Culver

Cam Johnson

KZ Okpala

2020 (detroit)

Killian Hayes

Beef Stew

2021 (charlotte)

James Bouknight

Kai Jones

Scottie Lewis

2022 (Washington)

Johnny Davis

Yannie Nzosa

Alright only two teams have had arguably just as bad of a draft as the Warriors: Cleveland in 2013 with the Bennett selection and Charlotte in 2021 with Bouknignt and Kai Jones. I chose the worst top 11 player in each draft (extended to 11 to include Charlotte with Bouknight) sacramento bungled the bag with Bagley and that was disastrous but Bagley is a serviceable rotation player in this league and thar was Sacramentos only pick that year besides trading GARY Trent Jr pick

To summarize, i still stand by my point that the Warriors have had arguably one of the worst drafts in recent history with a player that can be considered an absolute bust by any metric and two other players

Completely out of the league in which the players immediately after are contributing rotation players. Out of every single non lottery selection i examined over the last ten years on the list, there were a total of 2 players. 2!! In which the player immediately picked after was a regular contributor in this league. The Warriors have Two in one draft they whiffed not counting Wiseman.

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1. I’ve lost track. Who are the three high draft pick busts? Wiseman obviously. Are you talking about Moody and Kuminga as busts? Those three are the only “high” picks. Evans and Paschall are out of the league, but those were ultra low picks.

2. Check out my list below which does not agree with your list. I admire that you are trying to set out actual criteria instead of abstractly complaining about the draft as other sites have done. But as you can see from (1), I can’t understand what the standard for a bad draft is. My list has both players out of the league, and bad lottery picks.

3. I’m not going to cry about GSW drafting Wiseman, because he was a consensus Top 3 pick, even if I thought it was a dumb pick at the time. Life goes on, picks miss.

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He was a consensus top 3 pick AND Loon had not blossomed into Ironman. So they had a hole in the center position and no hole at guard, so tie goes to the player who plays a position of need.

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Except he was not. He was generally mocked to go top 3 because pundits felt both Warriors and Hornets had a need at Center but several publications never had Wiseman as a Top 3 prospect. Wiseman was ranked i wanna say 9th by Forbes, 11th i believe by NBADraft.net. Not to go off on a tangent but they were the first publication that really sold me

On Okongwu. And then Givony & Co over at ESPN had him 15th.

But again i think alot of people are missing my point. I myself while against the Wiseman pick felt from day one that he would be unplayable first year but be a contributor as early as year 2 and a full fledged starter by year 5 (past the Curry and core prime). I also never anticipated Halliburton and Edwards being on the fringes of superstardom and Lamelo a smidge or two behind. I didnt even know KJ Martin Jr was a viable prospect but believe u me i knew who Isaiah Joe was. Now with all that info in hand i can confidently say that 2020 was one of the worst drafts out of any team ive seen in recent history (the Anthony Bennett one maybe coming in first)

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You’re weighting 2nd round pick misses too heavily. The only one that really matters is Wiseman. Which is a bad pick, but I can think of several relatively equal or worse in the last 20 years just by looking at top 3.

Darko over Wade, Melo and Bosh. Worse.

Oden over Durant. Worse.

Beasley and Mayo over Russ and Love. Equal.

Thabeet over Steph and Harden. Worse.

Derrick Williams over lots of guys (Kawhi, Klay). Equal.

MKG over Beal and Lillard. Equal.

Jabari over Embiid. Worse

Fultz over Tatum. Worse if you include the trade.

Bagley over Luka. MUCH worse

I thought the Warriors should have done whatever they could to move down and get present help. Because I didn’t think the talent was much different later in the draft. It was a bad draft and it’s hurting in the present, but it’s not historically bad.

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Well my criteria was over the last 10 years. Jabari was a decent starter then a good to decent rotation player. Wiseman is not. Fultz

Is a really good player. Thats not on Phillys drafting thats strictly on their “Trust the Process”. Wiseman is not a good player. Ur closest may be Luka bypassed by Sacramento because it was the very next pick (my criteria) but Bagley is still a decent rotation player. Wiseman is not. The closest we can come is the example you gave above which would be Thabeet and Anthony Bennett.

But Cleveland was always perennially in the lottery. When is the next time we would find ourselves having a top 3 pick which is why I feel Wiseman was worse. And that Anthony Bennett draft was way weaker than 2020.

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Fultz and Bagley provided no value to the teams that drafted them. Parker provided minimal. No impact on winning, and then went away for no trade value. So those drafts are just as bad value wise.

Opportunity cost wise Bagley over Luka is much much worse.

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Technically Wiseman is in year 4, with over 1 year missing. At the same point in Fultz's career he was not a good player. In his technical year 4 he played 8 games, .394 FG%, .250 from 3, .420 from 2. He played only 8 games, so maybe an injury. The year before he was .507 from 2, .267 from 3, 12.1ppg. That's about where Wiseman is at. If you say Fultz was a good player then--at .267 from 3 (he took 135 threes)--then it seems you need to see Wiseman as a good player now.

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They tried to trade down, but could find no takers. They could have just passed I guess.

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Where'd you see they tried to trade down?

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

My criteria was a star/superstar or even high level starter (more subjective) and two regular rotation players. But also looking at the players chosen immediately after. In 2020 im not arguing that the Warriors missed out on Halliburton because so did 10 other teams. It is also the belief that I will take to my grave that the Dubs would have chosen Ant had they had the first pick or if Lamelo goes first

But you look at how monumentally bad that Wiseman pick was in relation to not only the very next pick but also a few of the next several picks. Also im gonna push back on the ‘consensus’. Both ESpN mock analysts including Givony did not have him in the lottery. They had him mocked but not ranked


I remember my uh oh moment came two days before the draft with givony and I forget the second analyst on the Zach Lowe podcast saying that Wiseman at best would duplicate what Javale McGee was doing for the Warriors but Givony consistently had Lamelo and Halliburton as top 2.

So you have two players besides Wiseman in Mannion and Jessup in which the player picked after is a high level rotation caliber player. Yes i get theres a bit of narrowness in my criteria in like saying “Only 2 players have averaged 22 points, 11 rebounds 6 assists and 2 blocks in the month of December…” but IMO just looking at the player drafted immediately after if the Warriors just hit on one. Heck if we draft Wiseman, Mannion, and kJ martin then im not callinf this one of the worst drafts out of any team in the last decade. Obviously as i told

The other poster earlier, drafting Flynn doesnt negate drafting Kevin Garnett but it doesn’t mean that particular draft was nothing short of disastrous for the future of the Twolves franchise

Even if Ezeli flamed out due to injury and Barnes was traded i will always sing the praises of that 2012

Draft. What I can’t understand is why people take exception to me saying that as good as 2012 was, 2020 was oppositely as horrible draft and its ok. Its ok to reminisce on 2009 and 2012 and im ok with saying Bob Myers had an average batting percentage when it comes to overall drafting but also acknowledging that by far the Warriors

Had the worst draft in 2020

And one of the worst drafts of the last decade plus without consistently arguing about our 4 championships as if that somehow negates our shitty draft. Or thr constant Covid excuses when ive pointed out that 20 out of 30 teams hit on their draft pick. Another 7 were marginal. 2 were not ideal Hayes and The Phoenix

Pick and ours was the clear bonafide bust….at 2!

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Aha, I understand you now. Mannion and Jessup are so far off my radar that it didn’t even occur to me to get upset about those picks. They were really really late picks which rarely turn into NBA players.

I agree 2020 stunk as a GSW draft, and I don’t know who would disagree. I think for me I understand the thinking behind the picks, so I can’t get too mad one way or another about it. That’s the part where we may differ.

I don’t usually daydream about what if we drafted differently. For instance, I have zero negative pangs about not drafting LaMelo. I admit I occasionally occasionally feel a pang about not taking Wagner instead of Kuminga, but Kuminga was the consensus Top 6 pick that dropped to 7, so I get it.

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I'm with you, but I went to my first game at Chase the other night and got a look at Holmgren firsthand. I will admit that I dreamed about what might have been if the Warriors have the number two pick his year...

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It’s so hard to watch Embiid repeatedly just throw his body around instead of actually playing basketball

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CP vs. Scott Foster speculation, with a lot of background re: Foster's other history.

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Kawakami and Klay faceoff

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Kawakami is the Scott Foster of sports journalists, who is the Draymond Green of referees. Highly competent, but attracts drama, odd personal beefs, and holds a grudge. You take the good with the bad, mostly still worth it.

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Upset alert! Blazers beat the Pacers in Indiana 114-110. Blazers move to 5-12 and 3-7 on the road while the Pacers fall to 9-7 and 6-5 at home.

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Keegan Murray doubtful for the Kings tomorrow. Alex Len out. Keon Ellis questionable. Warriors have an empty injury report. Everyone available.

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Yes Keegan is a starter, but the others are deep bench players. I predict Murray starts, so this is non-news. Except the good part is healthy Dubs. That makes me happy.

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Wow. some good injury and availability news for once.

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I think it's going to be a weird game.

You know Draymond will be over-amped, but also trying really hard not to pick up a tech.

I expect to see a bunch of overhelping from him during the game.

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

Wiseman: (-12, 9 minutes)

8 points, 3/4 FGs, 2/4 FTs

4 rebounds (3 off.), 1 turnover

Poole: (+10, 25 minutes)

10 points, 3/9 FGs, 0/2 threes, 4/4 FTs

3 assists, 4 turnovers, 1 steal, 3 fouls

Neither of them played in the 4th Q.

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Wiseman -12 in a 19 point loss.

JP +10 in a 19 point win.

Wiseman plays better than his teammates. JP plays worse than his teammates.

Wiseman's team loses, so he has worse teammates. JP's team wins, so he has better teammates.

So the question: Who is better, Wiseman or JP? The stats in this game do not settle it.

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You mean who was better in this game, not overall, yes? Obviously one game or even 5 games would not resolve who is better overall.

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He's takin' it one game at a time.

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Wiseman's 9 min look decent without having yet watched the game!

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He had a PnR dunk highlight on ESPN. Thas all I know.

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