hello folks, I have a special bonus, with Perks chipping in a rundown of potential free agent targets for the Warriors. So please move any fresh comments over there, and we'll make that the open thread for Free Agency Day 1.
"Luka's similar to LeBron offensively in that he is the system. A player that can create his own shot can get frustrated playing w/ LeBron or Luka. I'm not surprised Brunson's camp made the comment. Luka's independently great, regardless of a guy like Brunson."
Brett Brown has agreed to return to San Antonio to join Gregg Popovich's staff as an assistant coach, sources tell ESPN. Brown spent 2007-2013 on Popovich's staff before becoming the 76ers coach. They’ve maintained a close relationship.
Victor Oladipo would be a good fit for Phoenix but hearing he wants to go somewhere where he can start and that he likely will command in the $10 million range, which in all likelihood puts him out of reach as a free agent for the Suns, who will have the $6.5 taxpayer exception.
(1) Looney top priority, most likely contract the Zubac: $33M/3 yrs, because best market offer is at most full MLE. There's a small possibility they ask him to check on the market for 24h before offering, just to see if he only gets $6M/yr, they can offer $9M/yr, and all parties happy.
(2) GP2 @ just over TPMLE. has to be second priority, as inability to sign Looney makes GP2 much more urgent, or saved money on Loon can go to GP2. So, total combined for these two:$17M.
(3) OPJ not going to be signed if Loon and GP2 get signed.
(4) 15th roster spot is most likely vacant, waiting on Andre. This allows them to have a camp competition like last year's AB vs. GP2. This allows them to promise it to their 2-ways during the season as incentive. And gives them flexibility in case of injury or unexpected need.
(5) MM, Kuminga, Wise will all see increased minutes, and play A LOT. They become the effective 8,9,10 rotation spots.
(6) That leaves two roster spots open for 3rd stringers. Most likely: stretch 4/5 (probably Bjeli), and wing/perimeter ballandler (backup PG, Gary Harris?). True backup C very unlikely (minutes to Wise + stretch 4 + Kuminga). Backup PG minutes will go to Poole + Rollins(so wing who can handle if needed like Andre preferred over straight backup PG).
(7) Names bandied about. Gary Harris (a lot). Noel if bought out (for Bjeli spot). Gallinari (for either spot), Delon Wright. McAdoo.
(8) QW most likely fit for second 2-way, and the Dubs really like him, and may give decent minutes throughout the season, giving him the Wiggs defensive assignments.
(9) Wiggs/Poole extension talks have not yet begun. No numbers exchanged yet. Wiggs might get extended for some savings under max. Very possible that Poole and Dubs both decide to not extend and see what Poole can get on the market, then decide whether to match.
(10) MT2 thinks Wiggs could make a big jump next year.
(11) AS thinks JP will have a big year. TK thinks they can't pay Poole the max. This may be the year JP plays himself off the roster. Slater/MT2 think Poole's money may come from Klay, asking him to take a big cut or letting him walk.
Has anyone heard GPII saying he wants to return? That he values GSW?
I saw him quoted as looking forward to the free agency process because he has never been in this position before. I also heard GP saying he was not certain where his son would be next year.
It just does not make sense to me why the Warriors would put Rollins on the roster and Weatherspoon on a two-way. Isn't Weatherspoon more likely to contribute in the playoffs and therefore if they are committed to those two, shouldn't they have the more likely playoff contributor on the roster?
Or did Rollins tell the Warriors he would come only if he got a roster spot?
I'm assuming they want to get him on that 3rd year, does it also come with restricted FO afterward too?
Weatherspoon has been "under the radar" for long enough, I'm sure they're not that worried about losing him. He's one reason they'll probably keep a roster spot open just in case they really like him and start getting worried about losing him.
That last tidbit is potentially the most impactful, yet down the road.
Man, it would be gut-wrenching for everyone to let Klay walk. I hope/suspect there’s enough mutual respect and admiration that they can find a deal for Klay that makes sense for both parties. They’ve certainly respected him along the way, re-signing him after the devasting knee injury and paying him $60M for two years off rehab.
Money could come from a Dray extension, too, but they talked more about Klay. The idea of paying three Guards max deals and none of them can guard a Tatum/Brown type talent is more probably a no-go, so $$ for JP would most likely have to come from Klay.
How far Klay comes back in year 2 following the injuries low-key one of the biggest determiners of what the roster will look like in the next few years. He’s on the wrong side of 30, but still REALLY valuable on both sides of the ball if he comes all the way back next season.
You’ll fit nicely in a front office that’s collaborative and collegial, and that understands how to make decisions through consensus. It’s a massive, decentralized managerial operation -- possibly too big for some -- but the Warriors excel at maintaining success with everyone playing their role.
Rumor: ATL trying to expand Dejounte deal to include Huerter to a third team. Speculation around Boston wanting Gallo (but also some Huerter hypotheticals).
I think that GP is not pursuing full mid-level. It's not 2 mln that make the difference.
I think he's pursuing a lineup. In that scenario, I can't blame him. Fun fact, if he goes to Charlotte, MF Oubre that didn't want to sit for Klay, will sit for GP.
> Golden State is hopeful to retain Gary Payton II, sources said, but a suitor that offers the full mid-level could pry him free.
> If the numbers are close, he’ll go back to the Warriors ... Detroit and Charlotte are teams to look out for”
Detroit being mentioned is the first time I've gotten a bit nervous about this ordeal. They have a ton of cap space and might be looking to do something stupid with it.
I don't see how Detroit makes sense to pursue him (other than maybe that they need to spend more to hit the salary min and just want to troll the champs?). He is turning 30 soon and I don't see his timeline aligning with the Detroit youth. Also, not to judge too much, but GP2 does not seem like a particularly "mature" player that could mentor the youth or anything. Though I guess they could figure having to face GP2 in practice might help elevate their young guys games too.
I'm trying to imagine being a player in a GP2 like situation. I like the warriors. I like the bay area. We just won a championship. I fit in and make a difference. Let's say the Warriors offer me, um, 7 mil. Detroit suddenly pops up with an offer of, say, 11 mil. I know that if I go to the pistons, we won't really be competitive. I don't know if I'll like the team mates or the coaching or the org. 4 mil is a pretty big difference. Hard to say no. Do I care about the chance to compete for championships? Do I care about job satisfaction? If the 4 mil difference seems to much to pass up, how much would the Warriors have to come up to keep me? would 8 do it? 9? Me personally I would sure take 10 from the Warriors over 11 from Detroit and probably 9, but that's me... this is a difficult and complex situation for a lot of guys, I would guess.
I think one other thing that really should be part of his thinking is that he found a role with GSW after going undrafted and bouncing around for five years and making peanuts.
Life doesn’t offer many guarantees, but continued success seems a lot more likely in the only place you found it.
Maybe if the difference is 10% or under you stay. 15-20% or more you go. He probably has that number figured out.
I also don't know that his only path to job satisfaction is being on a perennial contender. Detroit has one of the best young rosters in the NBA, and Cade Cunningham is on the short list of foundational players where I think that creates a spot for GP2 to thrive. So he could find greater job satisfaction in helping accelerate the growth curve for a potentially special team.
I think that's probably the # he's looking at. The big question is: When the time to make the decision is at hand, are you still following your plan, or do things change because they are real?
I really can't imagine the Pistons or anybody else giving GPII a $10m/year deal. He is a great guy to have on the bench if you are competing for a championship right now, but he is 29 years old and the Pistons aren't there yet. They would do much better to preserve cap space and land a big time free agent starter to go with Cunningham and their new draft picks. If I am the Warriors, and some team that is competing offers the TPMLE for 2 years, you match and offer 3 or 4 years. He is that valuable to the Warriors even if he isn't the same guy in year 4.
Yeah, I agree with you on pretty much all of that.
I was not trying to offer a prediction. I was just trying to understand what the players in situations like GP2 were going through right now. What the experience was like for them and how they might approach the decision making process and what decisions they might have to make, because it's very different than our warriors fan based view of free agency.
hello folks, I have a special bonus, with Perks chipping in a rundown of potential free agent targets for the Warriors. So please move any fresh comments over there, and we'll make that the open thread for Free Agency Day 1.
https://dubnationhq.com/p/perks-on-2022-warriors-potential?sd=pf
Is GP2 really going to Portland?
With KD preferring PHX they could sign and trade Ayton to a max without getting hard capped. That is excellent stuff from PHX if they pull this off
Kevin Durant has requested a trade out of Brooklyn
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1542580983739858944
Wow this is FIRE. A dumpster fire haha
"Luka's similar to LeBron offensively in that he is the system. A player that can create his own shot can get frustrated playing w/ LeBron or Luka. I'm not surprised Brunson's camp made the comment. Luka's independently great, regardless of a guy like Brunson."
https://twitter.com/FTFonFS1/status/1542491254067531776
Brett Brown has agreed to return to San Antonio to join Gregg Popovich's staff as an assistant coach, sources tell ESPN. Brown spent 2007-2013 on Popovich's staff before becoming the 76ers coach. They’ve maintained a close relationship.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1542552865943715842
Victor Oladipo would be a good fit for Phoenix but hearing he wants to go somewhere where he can start and that he likely will command in the $10 million range, which in all likelihood puts him out of reach as a free agent for the Suns, who will have the $6.5 taxpayer exception.
https://twitter.com/gambo987/status/1542546524323729410
well, if Ayton walks… but then they'd need a starting center
Just listened to +/- wit TK, MT2, and AS.
https://theathletic.com/podcast/11-warriors-plus-minus/?episode=197
This was their consensus:
(1) Looney top priority, most likely contract the Zubac: $33M/3 yrs, because best market offer is at most full MLE. There's a small possibility they ask him to check on the market for 24h before offering, just to see if he only gets $6M/yr, they can offer $9M/yr, and all parties happy.
(2) GP2 @ just over TPMLE. has to be second priority, as inability to sign Looney makes GP2 much more urgent, or saved money on Loon can go to GP2. So, total combined for these two:$17M.
(3) OPJ not going to be signed if Loon and GP2 get signed.
(4) 15th roster spot is most likely vacant, waiting on Andre. This allows them to have a camp competition like last year's AB vs. GP2. This allows them to promise it to their 2-ways during the season as incentive. And gives them flexibility in case of injury or unexpected need.
(5) MM, Kuminga, Wise will all see increased minutes, and play A LOT. They become the effective 8,9,10 rotation spots.
(6) That leaves two roster spots open for 3rd stringers. Most likely: stretch 4/5 (probably Bjeli), and wing/perimeter ballandler (backup PG, Gary Harris?). True backup C very unlikely (minutes to Wise + stretch 4 + Kuminga). Backup PG minutes will go to Poole + Rollins(so wing who can handle if needed like Andre preferred over straight backup PG).
(7) Names bandied about. Gary Harris (a lot). Noel if bought out (for Bjeli spot). Gallinari (for either spot), Delon Wright. McAdoo.
(8) QW most likely fit for second 2-way, and the Dubs really like him, and may give decent minutes throughout the season, giving him the Wiggs defensive assignments.
(9) Wiggs/Poole extension talks have not yet begun. No numbers exchanged yet. Wiggs might get extended for some savings under max. Very possible that Poole and Dubs both decide to not extend and see what Poole can get on the market, then decide whether to match.
(10) MT2 thinks Wiggs could make a big jump next year.
(11) AS thinks JP will have a big year. TK thinks they can't pay Poole the max. This may be the year JP plays himself off the roster. Slater/MT2 think Poole's money may come from Klay, asking him to take a big cut or letting him walk.
Has anyone heard GPII saying he wants to return? That he values GSW?
I saw him quoted as looking forward to the free agency process because he has never been in this position before. I also heard GP saying he was not certain where his son would be next year.
It just does not make sense to me why the Warriors would put Rollins on the roster and Weatherspoon on a two-way. Isn't Weatherspoon more likely to contribute in the playoffs and therefore if they are committed to those two, shouldn't they have the more likely playoff contributor on the roster?
Or did Rollins tell the Warriors he would come only if he got a roster spot?
I'm assuming they want to get him on that 3rd year, does it also come with restricted FO afterward too?
Weatherspoon has been "under the radar" for long enough, I'm sure they're not that worried about losing him. He's one reason they'll probably keep a roster spot open just in case they really like him and start getting worried about losing him.
FWIW, they talked about QW's value not for his ballhandling but for his defensive chops (Devin last year), Ja next year?
Thanks for the recap!
That last tidbit is potentially the most impactful, yet down the road.
Man, it would be gut-wrenching for everyone to let Klay walk. I hope/suspect there’s enough mutual respect and admiration that they can find a deal for Klay that makes sense for both parties. They’ve certainly respected him along the way, re-signing him after the devasting knee injury and paying him $60M for two years off rehab.
Money could come from a Dray extension, too, but they talked more about Klay. The idea of paying three Guards max deals and none of them can guard a Tatum/Brown type talent is more probably a no-go, so $$ for JP would most likely have to come from Klay.
How far Klay comes back in year 2 following the injuries low-key one of the biggest determiners of what the roster will look like in the next few years. He’s on the wrong side of 30, but still REALLY valuable on both sides of the ball if he comes all the way back next season.
espn.com has a buzzfeed style quiz -- which NBA team should you be the GM of? My answers got me .... you guessed it. If you'd like to try and report your results, it takes about a minute: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34168434/nba-free-agency-2022-which-front-office-run-take-our-quiz
Got to "billionaire luminary" and quit, fuck those guys
You don't worship Elon Musk? Tsk tsk
Result: You belong with the Golden State Warriors
You’ll fit nicely in a front office that’s collaborative and collegial, and that understands how to make decisions through consensus. It’s a massive, decentralized managerial operation -- possibly too big for some -- but the Warriors excel at maintaining success with everyone playing their role.
I'd be joining you in the front office or maybe the side cubicle
I'm already in the side cubicle. No window. No breaks, either.
Un mensaje para JTA: lo siento mucho, compañero, así son los negocios. Pero tu quedaras siempre en nuestros corazones. Hasta siempre, comandante JTA.
Rumor: ATL trying to expand Dejounte deal to include Huerter to a third team. Speculation around Boston wanting Gallo (but also some Huerter hypotheticals).
Note: ESPY voting is still active and you can vote once per day: https://www.espn.com/espys/story/_/page/voting-best-nba/espys-2022-best-nba-player
(Several other Warriors awards you can vote for too)
Heat not meeting Brunson now?
That was always a smokescreen to me… there’s no way the Heat get anything done there.
I think that GP is not pursuing full mid-level. It's not 2 mln that make the difference.
I think he's pursuing a lineup. In that scenario, I can't blame him. Fun fact, if he goes to Charlotte, MF Oubre that didn't want to sit for Klay, will sit for GP.
If Charlotte steals GP2 after everything that's happened there over the last week+ , it would be pretty upsetting, not going to lie.
GP?
I kinda think Payton would value years/overall dollar amount and guaranteed money over like a one year full MLE deal.
Jordan Poole is under control for one more year and barring massive injury is looking at a close-to-max deal.
Yeah, I meant GP. Sorry, I'm melting with the heat wave in Italy. How's the weather in Califurnace?
Stay safe. Heat waves are no joke...
All good.
Heat wave here subsiding for now. High of 75 here in South Bay 😀
Fischer said yesterday:
> Golden State is hopeful to retain Gary Payton II, sources said, but a suitor that offers the full mid-level could pry him free.
> If the numbers are close, he’ll go back to the Warriors ... Detroit and Charlotte are teams to look out for”
Detroit being mentioned is the first time I've gotten a bit nervous about this ordeal. They have a ton of cap space and might be looking to do something stupid with it.
Isn’t the full MLE $10M, which is the same that GSW can offer GP2 with early-Bird rights?
I don’t see how that would “pry him away” unless they’re saying GSW wouldn’t want to spend that much.
> unless they’re saying GSW wouldn’t want to spend that much.
Yeah I think that is what they are saying.
I don't see how Detroit makes sense to pursue him (other than maybe that they need to spend more to hit the salary min and just want to troll the champs?). He is turning 30 soon and I don't see his timeline aligning with the Detroit youth. Also, not to judge too much, but GP2 does not seem like a particularly "mature" player that could mentor the youth or anything. Though I guess they could figure having to face GP2 in practice might help elevate their young guys games too.
I'm trying to imagine being a player in a GP2 like situation. I like the warriors. I like the bay area. We just won a championship. I fit in and make a difference. Let's say the Warriors offer me, um, 7 mil. Detroit suddenly pops up with an offer of, say, 11 mil. I know that if I go to the pistons, we won't really be competitive. I don't know if I'll like the team mates or the coaching or the org. 4 mil is a pretty big difference. Hard to say no. Do I care about the chance to compete for championships? Do I care about job satisfaction? If the 4 mil difference seems to much to pass up, how much would the Warriors have to come up to keep me? would 8 do it? 9? Me personally I would sure take 10 from the Warriors over 11 from Detroit and probably 9, but that's me... this is a difficult and complex situation for a lot of guys, I would guess.
I think one other thing that really should be part of his thinking is that he found a role with GSW after going undrafted and bouncing around for five years and making peanuts.
Life doesn’t offer many guarantees, but continued success seems a lot more likely in the only place you found it.
Maybe if the difference is 10% or under you stay. 15-20% or more you go. He probably has that number figured out.
I also don't know that his only path to job satisfaction is being on a perennial contender. Detroit has one of the best young rosters in the NBA, and Cade Cunningham is on the short list of foundational players where I think that creates a spot for GP2 to thrive. So he could find greater job satisfaction in helping accelerate the growth curve for a potentially special team.
I think that's probably the # he's looking at. The big question is: When the time to make the decision is at hand, are you still following your plan, or do things change because they are real?
I really can't imagine the Pistons or anybody else giving GPII a $10m/year deal. He is a great guy to have on the bench if you are competing for a championship right now, but he is 29 years old and the Pistons aren't there yet. They would do much better to preserve cap space and land a big time free agent starter to go with Cunningham and their new draft picks. If I am the Warriors, and some team that is competing offers the TPMLE for 2 years, you match and offer 3 or 4 years. He is that valuable to the Warriors even if he isn't the same guy in year 4.
Yeah, I agree with you on pretty much all of that.
I was not trying to offer a prediction. I was just trying to understand what the players in situations like GP2 were going through right now. What the experience was like for them and how they might approach the decision making process and what decisions they might have to make, because it's very different than our warriors fan based view of free agency.
Happy free agency day! (Unless you're a Hornets fan).