Jun 7, 2022·edited Jun 7, 2022Liked by Eric Apricot
I can only laugh at the growing narrative about how Golden State is suddenly bullying Boston and the game is being unevenly officiated in their favor.
After nine years of teams beating up Golden State in the playoffs - and the overwhelming narrative that it is how you have to play to beat the Warriors - the sudden outrage when the Warriors actually rise to meet an opponent's physicality is just hilarious. Golden State isn't supposed to play that way. They're supposed to let the other team beat them up and not get calls for it but NOT adjust their style of play to rise to meet that physicality.
The Eastern Conference Finals were a case of two teams who genuinely loved each other and treated each other gently. No physicality there. Both teams weren't physical and it wasn't officiated that way at all. I'm shocked that the bullying Warriors are allowed to work the Celtics over while they're in their love circle singing Kumbaya!
That for a "small team," the Warriors were a top 5 team in the league in rebound% in the regular season. IIRC, they went through Denver, Memphis, and Dallas beating all those teams on the boards.
The Warriors are supposed to be the "finesse" team completely ignoring the fact that outside of the KD years, one of the hallmarks of the Warriors was tough, physical defense. They could play defense with KD as well, but since they knew could just outscore any opponent they mostly didn't bother. All of a sudden, it is a surprise.
bob3339 from Celticsblog wants you to know that Draymond has never been punched in the face and that he could beat Draymond in a fight:
"Draymond acts like someone that has never been punched in the face. it's that one guy that is constantly running his mouth. Then, one day he gets knocked out and the constant bs talk stops then.
I've seen that type of person all the time. I grew up playing baseball (through HS, but threw out arm in college)... baseball players are the epitome of this. Big time bravado... because if a "fight" happens it's literally 30 guys on the field and they are protected."
.
.
.
"I'd love to be on the Celtics right now. I'm 6'3" 255lbs. No, I'm not a big ball o muscle... nor am I a fat bastard. That said, if he were running his mouth, I sure as hell would talk crap back and if push came to shove, I would knock his butt out."
It is beyond me that some people (who, presumably, like me, work behind a desk with the Microsoft suite all day) think they could beat a professional athlete in a fight. Also, beyond me that someone could think a kid from Saginaw has never been in a fight before.
• The Warriors (21-for-49, 42.9%) and Celtics (20-for-46, 43.5%) shot similar percentages on a similar number of uncontested shot attempts in Game 2. The real disparity comes when we look at contested shots. The Warriors shot 18-for-37 (48.6%) on contested field goals, while the Celtics shot just 10-for-34 (29.4%).
• Curry held his matchups to nine points on 3-for-11 (27.3%) shooting from the field and 1-for-5 (20%) shooting from 3-point range, while coming up with three steals.
• Wiggins defended Tatum for a team-high 7:03, allowing 11 points on 4-for-10 shooting from the field, including 3-for-5 from 3-point range. Tatum also scored 10 points on a perfect 3-for-3 FG, 2-for-2 3P, and 2-for-2 FT shooting in 2:54 against Gary Payton II.
Curry shot better on contested shots (6-for-11) than he did on uncontested shots (3-for-10); the opposite was true for Poole who was just 1-of-5 on contested shots (including two that were blocked) and 5-for-9 when left open.
There's a lot more I could call out here, just picking out some interesting ones to me. That first one is a little concerning going into game three TBH.
Jun 7, 2022·edited Jun 7, 2022Liked by Eric Apricot
I always love these videos, great job as always. The sequence from about 7:05, where Draymond basically just bulldozes White and Horford out of the play had me wondering how much of that is allowed. Eric called that screening, but Green's got his arms extended and is not holding position at all, he's moving furniture. Is this just a matter of what the refs let you get away with? Please explain to an ignorant fan in Sweden.
So there is a ref judgment call in the NBA about whether something like that is an illegal screen or just Draymond going to where he wants to go legally and there being incidental contact. This deserves a much longer discussion someday.
People used to love to complain about Warriors screens, but in fact most NBA screens are not legal nowadays and the Warriors happen to set more screens. Most importantly, dribble handoffs are in this category and happen 100 times a game: you toss the ball and then… are you an illegal screen or are you just going somewhere legally?
Anyway, I find 99% of the complaints about this play quite laughable. If we could guarantee that all grabbing on offense and defense was called strictly and fairly, the Warriors would gladly take that, because Steph and Klay are wrestled, smacked and body whomped off-ball as a strategy that is not only allowed but praised and in fact demanded on TV. After all the talk for a decade of how the Warriors are tuxedo wimps who can’t stand up to physical play and would have wilted in the good old 90s and 80s, now people are going to cry about Draymond pushing a little? More contact than that happens on every post up. Eye roll
I'm no authority, but I think basically yes, this is allowed/overlooked as long as Draymond doesn't hold them or extend his arms. So if they try to go around and he grabs jersey or armbars them, that's a foul; and if he pushes by extending his arms that's also a foul. He's far enough away from the ball that this wouldn't be called as a moving screen, so it's more about what White and Horford are trying to do (apparently not much) than Draymond's snowplow technique.
Thanks! He does look like he's extending his arms a bit there. And if I'm reading the rules right, moving screens can be off ball as well. But I guess as Apricot says in his reply most screens in the NBA are technically illegal if the refs decide to call them.
Lot a talk about Klay but I'm not worried in the slightest, nor am i even surprised considering it seems to happen at the start of every series. Klay is like a Gatling gun, he's gotta work the crank a bit before he starts hitting everything in rapid fashion
Looking forward to the update on the Looney file... Boy oh boy has he come a long way!
2015
#30. Kevon Looney. Very injury prone, didn’t play for two years, was almost cut, turned out to be a great smallball center, made key contributions in the 2018 and 2019 Playoffs.
You made me go back to see if I said anything really silly in that article, and it stands up. I’m more impressed how Looney bounced back from, at that time, career-questioning surgery.
***
“I’m going to call this one a solid draft pick by the Warriors. Looney made crucial contributions, but also missed the first two years of his career. This was an intentional choice, as GSW pursued a strategy of drafting for high upside with value damaged by injury concerns (see Jones, Damian). It’s looking quite unclear that Looney will ever contribute big meaningful minutes in the future, but he peaked and made strong contributions in the 2018 and 2019 playoffs.”
I defined a Dynasty as making the majority of Finals over a time period. Technically the 2015-2021 counted as Dynasty, but of course not really. However, making this year’s Finals means that I actually have to legitimately update the series for 2015-2022 and account for the 2019-2022 drafts, and re-calculate all the Playoff Minutes that Looney and other draft picks played.
Ham is really talking Westbrook up like they want to run it back with him. I really hope they do. I believe with a few personnel changes they'll surely be better defensively and should make the playoffs but I don't buy that big 3 in serious contention for a title.
Ham seems like a good dude. Also wiki factoid: “During his time in Milwaukee, Ham became the namesake of the "Hammer play", now a widespread NBA offensive concept.[5]”
Not quite sure how Lakers are going to build around LeBron, AD, and Westbrook. They've got no upcoming draft picks for a few years and didn't get a very good return on the ring-chasing FA vets last time around. It's actually sad that LeBron might never get back to the NBA Finals, but as long as the Dubs' OG gets a few more trips, I won't shed too many tears.
That was one of the few games where I thought the refs let us play physical defense. Celtics fans will claim rigged, but teams have been doing that to us all the time.
I thought we got away with a lot of reaches, but upon further review, most of them looked pretty clean - just excessive flailing and falling by the Celtics. Hopefully refs in future games will continue to call what they see and not what they assume!
This is The Finals, that is how it is and how it should be. In the Cs vs Bucks series, the refs had to talk to both benches coming out of half-time to cut out the complaining. They're whiners, they've been whiners, and they'll continue to whine. I hope it takes their focus.
We've watched over the years that as the series go along, the players and refs become more attuned to each other, these gimmicks like Tatum's Hardenesque "stick out the ball and hope to get a call", Smart's flopping, etc. stop earning calls and stop being winning plays, and they get frustrated. If the Celtics grow up and play through, they've got a shot. If they are intent on complaining their way into getting the calls they've been getting, they've got no shot.
When Dray and KD had their famous dust up, KD confronted Dray saying he could control it if he wanted to. Clearly in Game 2 he didn’t want to. I wish he would; he is needed.
Draymond had the Flagrant 2 early in the Memphis series and has been able to avoid any more flagrant fouls... when a total of 4 earns a one game suspension. That is my bigger worry, rather than another 3 technicals. He is pretty good at knowing the limits, but after the last game he could get T'd up if the refs want to try hold the line on the verbal complaining. Their judgement's on if it is a Flagrant 1 or 2, can, to me, be very subjective and questionable, and is something he can't control
I'm not too worried... but the Cs are DEFINITELY trying to play the long game and get the refs to watch him more closely. I hope it backfires in that the refs see all the baiting the Cs are definitely going to do. Grant Williams was definitely trying to muck things up with Dray, and Horford was lucky he got ball on that swipe down where he clobbered Dray or that could have been a F2.
Either way, any energy and attention the Cs spend focused on telling the refs how to do their jobs is energy and attention they're not putting toward the actual game.
watching this, the Dubs definitely played good d, but also looks like the Celtics missed a few makable shots during that big third quarter run
then again, that is an inherent part of the game
Jake LaRavia has come up in a mock draft for us for anyone interested
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z7ME0g8Pm0
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nba-playoffs-are-usually-no-place-for-rookies-this-year-is-different/
I can only laugh at the growing narrative about how Golden State is suddenly bullying Boston and the game is being unevenly officiated in their favor.
After nine years of teams beating up Golden State in the playoffs - and the overwhelming narrative that it is how you have to play to beat the Warriors - the sudden outrage when the Warriors actually rise to meet an opponent's physicality is just hilarious. Golden State isn't supposed to play that way. They're supposed to let the other team beat them up and not get calls for it but NOT adjust their style of play to rise to meet that physicality.
The Eastern Conference Finals were a case of two teams who genuinely loved each other and treated each other gently. No physicality there. Both teams weren't physical and it wasn't officiated that way at all. I'm shocked that the bullying Warriors are allowed to work the Celtics over while they're in their love circle singing Kumbaya!
SMH
Boston fans just a bunch of whining sour grapes and sore losers.
I feel like another thing people need to realize.
That for a "small team," the Warriors were a top 5 team in the league in rebound% in the regular season. IIRC, they went through Denver, Memphis, and Dallas beating all those teams on the boards.
You don't do that if you are a soft team.
TBF the Warriors were really &(#%ing soft in the fourth quarter of Game 1.
The Warriors are supposed to be the "finesse" team completely ignoring the fact that outside of the KD years, one of the hallmarks of the Warriors was tough, physical defense. They could play defense with KD as well, but since they knew could just outscore any opponent they mostly didn't bother. All of a sudden, it is a surprise.
bob3339 from Celticsblog wants you to know that Draymond has never been punched in the face and that he could beat Draymond in a fight:
"Draymond acts like someone that has never been punched in the face. it's that one guy that is constantly running his mouth. Then, one day he gets knocked out and the constant bs talk stops then.
I've seen that type of person all the time. I grew up playing baseball (through HS, but threw out arm in college)... baseball players are the epitome of this. Big time bravado... because if a "fight" happens it's literally 30 guys on the field and they are protected."
.
.
.
"I'd love to be on the Celtics right now. I'm 6'3" 255lbs. No, I'm not a big ball o muscle... nor am I a fat bastard. That said, if he were running his mouth, I sure as hell would talk crap back and if push came to shove, I would knock his butt out."
Didn’t Tristan Thompson punch Draymond in the face in a bar?
yes
6'3 255lbs... so adjusted for internet exaggeration Bob is 5'11 355 lbs. Good luck there Bob. Sorry about the failed baseball career.
sounds like a big ball of fat bastard
It is beyond me that some people (who, presumably, like me, work behind a desk with the Microsoft suite all day) think they could beat a professional athlete in a fight. Also, beyond me that someone could think a kid from Saginaw has never been in a fight before.
Some very interesting data, especially in the player tracking section: https://www.nba.com/news/inside-the-box-score-2022-nba-finals-game-2
Some interesting nuggets:
• The Warriors (21-for-49, 42.9%) and Celtics (20-for-46, 43.5%) shot similar percentages on a similar number of uncontested shot attempts in Game 2. The real disparity comes when we look at contested shots. The Warriors shot 18-for-37 (48.6%) on contested field goals, while the Celtics shot just 10-for-34 (29.4%).
• Curry held his matchups to nine points on 3-for-11 (27.3%) shooting from the field and 1-for-5 (20%) shooting from 3-point range, while coming up with three steals.
• Wiggins defended Tatum for a team-high 7:03, allowing 11 points on 4-for-10 shooting from the field, including 3-for-5 from 3-point range. Tatum also scored 10 points on a perfect 3-for-3 FG, 2-for-2 3P, and 2-for-2 FT shooting in 2:54 against Gary Payton II.
Yeah looks like Tatum just rose up over GPII. He might not be the match up there
Curry shot better on contested shots (6-for-11) than he did on uncontested shots (3-for-10); the opposite was true for Poole who was just 1-of-5 on contested shots (including two that were blocked) and 5-for-9 when left open.
There's a lot more I could call out here, just picking out some interesting ones to me. That first one is a little concerning going into game three TBH.
Not sure if this lovely article of Klay's brother Mychel has been shared before?
$ https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/annkillion/article/warriors-klay-thompson-brother-17218632.php#photo-22559243
But this just blows my mind!!!
"At one point, he and Seth Curry shared a backcourt with the Santa Cruz Warriors — “Santa Cruz Splash Brothers”
I always love these videos, great job as always. The sequence from about 7:05, where Draymond basically just bulldozes White and Horford out of the play had me wondering how much of that is allowed. Eric called that screening, but Green's got his arms extended and is not holding position at all, he's moving furniture. Is this just a matter of what the refs let you get away with? Please explain to an ignorant fan in Sweden.
So there is a ref judgment call in the NBA about whether something like that is an illegal screen or just Draymond going to where he wants to go legally and there being incidental contact. This deserves a much longer discussion someday.
People used to love to complain about Warriors screens, but in fact most NBA screens are not legal nowadays and the Warriors happen to set more screens. Most importantly, dribble handoffs are in this category and happen 100 times a game: you toss the ball and then… are you an illegal screen or are you just going somewhere legally?
Anyway, I find 99% of the complaints about this play quite laughable. If we could guarantee that all grabbing on offense and defense was called strictly and fairly, the Warriors would gladly take that, because Steph and Klay are wrestled, smacked and body whomped off-ball as a strategy that is not only allowed but praised and in fact demanded on TV. After all the talk for a decade of how the Warriors are tuxedo wimps who can’t stand up to physical play and would have wilted in the good old 90s and 80s, now people are going to cry about Draymond pushing a little? More contact than that happens on every post up. Eye roll
Well, I'm not complaining! And yeah, Steph has to put up with a lot. Thanks for the comprehensive response!
I'm no authority, but I think basically yes, this is allowed/overlooked as long as Draymond doesn't hold them or extend his arms. So if they try to go around and he grabs jersey or armbars them, that's a foul; and if he pushes by extending his arms that's also a foul. He's far enough away from the ball that this wouldn't be called as a moving screen, so it's more about what White and Horford are trying to do (apparently not much) than Draymond's snowplow technique.
Thanks! He does look like he's extending his arms a bit there. And if I'm reading the rules right, moving screens can be off ball as well. But I guess as Apricot says in his reply most screens in the NBA are technically illegal if the refs decide to call them.
Lot a talk about Klay but I'm not worried in the slightest, nor am i even surprised considering it seems to happen at the start of every series. Klay is like a Gatling gun, he's gotta work the crank a bit before he starts hitting everything in rapid fashion
Encouraging sign for me was Klay was looking more engaged defensively.
If the Celtics want to post up Klay with Horford instead of putting the ball in Tatum/Browns hands then I say let them.
That is my hope too. G2 was his worst FG% game these playoffs (.211). If Celts start trapping/blitzing Steph, that outta open up things for him.
Been doing some deep dives into the DNHQ archives:
https://dubnationhq.com/p/did-the-warriors-ruin-the-dynasty?s=r
Looking forward to the update on the Looney file... Boy oh boy has he come a long way!
2015
#30. Kevon Looney. Very injury prone, didn’t play for two years, was almost cut, turned out to be a great smallball center, made key contributions in the 2018 and 2019 Playoffs.
You made me go back to see if I said anything really silly in that article, and it stands up. I’m more impressed how Looney bounced back from, at that time, career-questioning surgery.
***
“I’m going to call this one a solid draft pick by the Warriors. Looney made crucial contributions, but also missed the first two years of his career. This was an intentional choice, as GSW pursued a strategy of drafting for high upside with value damaged by injury concerns (see Jones, Damian). It’s looking quite unclear that Looney will ever contribute big meaningful minutes in the future, but he peaked and made strong contributions in the 2018 and 2019 playoffs.”
Hahaha
I defined a Dynasty as making the majority of Finals over a time period. Technically the 2015-2021 counted as Dynasty, but of course not really. However, making this year’s Finals means that I actually have to legitimately update the series for 2015-2022 and account for the 2019-2022 drafts, and re-calculate all the Playoff Minutes that Looney and other draft picks played.
So I plan to do that over the summer…
Great video. GP2 setting screens like he’s 6-8 265.
I think in either game 3 or game 4, we will see one of wiggins or gp2 pressing their ball handler for whole court.
For whole 48 mins
Ham is really talking Westbrook up like they want to run it back with him. I really hope they do. I believe with a few personnel changes they'll surely be better defensively and should make the playoffs but I don't buy that big 3 in serious contention for a title.
Ham seems like a good dude. Also wiki factoid: “During his time in Milwaukee, Ham became the namesake of the "Hammer play", now a widespread NBA offensive concept.[5]”
Not quite sure how Lakers are going to build around LeBron, AD, and Westbrook. They've got no upcoming draft picks for a few years and didn't get a very good return on the ring-chasing FA vets last time around. It's actually sad that LeBron might never get back to the NBA Finals, but as long as the Dubs' OG gets a few more trips, I won't shed too many tears.
I can’t for the life of me comprehend why you are even sad that Lebron might never get back to the Finals. I’d be ecstatic!
Well if Bron takes a ring chasing vet min I'm sure he'd still be useful at 40!
If we draft Bronny I'm sure he'll use the excuse to want to play with his son to come here
please NO!
It’s crazy but it could happen.
No, no, and some more no. Even as a joke!
Idk, Bronny I think is projected as a 2nd round pick? Could be a throwaway pick…
Damm if you take klays numbers out our team stats are pretty crazy against the supposed best defense
Okay didn't want the Celtics to feel too bad
That was one of the few games where I thought the refs let us play physical defense. Celtics fans will claim rigged, but teams have been doing that to us all the time.
I thought we got away with a lot of reaches, but upon further review, most of them looked pretty clean - just excessive flailing and falling by the Celtics. Hopefully refs in future games will continue to call what they see and not what they assume!
Boston fans are an over-entitled lot. Physical defense is exactly how the Celtics play. The shoe was just on the other foot for once.
Still nothing like the Grizz (in terms of physicality)
This is The Finals, that is how it is and how it should be. In the Cs vs Bucks series, the refs had to talk to both benches coming out of half-time to cut out the complaining. They're whiners, they've been whiners, and they'll continue to whine. I hope it takes their focus.
We've watched over the years that as the series go along, the players and refs become more attuned to each other, these gimmicks like Tatum's Hardenesque "stick out the ball and hope to get a call", Smart's flopping, etc. stop earning calls and stop being winning plays, and they get frustrated. If the Celtics grow up and play through, they've got a shot. If they are intent on complaining their way into getting the calls they've been getting, they've got no shot.
Dray getting Tech-ed out in the remaining games - that is my biggest worry besides when (not if) Klay will break out of his funk.
JVG on Lowe Post podcast mentioned that Celtics need to get under Green's skin from get go and push him into crossing the line more than once.
I hope Green takes the opposite tack in G3 - stay chill while Cs are distracted by trying to get rise out of him.
When Dray and KD had their famous dust up, KD confronted Dray saying he could control it if he wanted to. Clearly in Game 2 he didn’t want to. I wish he would; he is needed.
I’m not at all convinced that Dray wasn’t in control throughout game 2.
Draymond had the Flagrant 2 early in the Memphis series and has been able to avoid any more flagrant fouls... when a total of 4 earns a one game suspension. That is my bigger worry, rather than another 3 technicals. He is pretty good at knowing the limits, but after the last game he could get T'd up if the refs want to try hold the line on the verbal complaining. Their judgement's on if it is a Flagrant 1 or 2, can, to me, be very subjective and questionable, and is something he can't control
I'm not too worried... but the Cs are DEFINITELY trying to play the long game and get the refs to watch him more closely. I hope it backfires in that the refs see all the baiting the Cs are definitely going to do. Grant Williams was definitely trying to muck things up with Dray, and Horford was lucky he got ball on that swipe down where he clobbered Dray or that could have been a F2.
Either way, any energy and attention the Cs spend focused on telling the refs how to do their jobs is energy and attention they're not putting toward the actual game.
I like to envision Dray going through the ringer with Try-to-Razz-me scenarios in prep for G3
So JTA going after him in 5 on 5 practice?
I'd pay to watch JTA impersonate Grant Williams
I think that is Dray’s plan
3 is a lot for 4 games. I hope the Celtics spend a lot of effort trying to get in Draymond's head.