"Wiseman’s situation is different. The Warriors have been trying to improve his game even while he’s in recovery. That’s obviously through film work and regular conversation. Steph Curry came off the floor the other night and had about a two-minute conversation with Wiseman. It seemed he was discussing screen angles because Draymond had just laid a great one to free Curry for a 3. I have heard Wiseman is way more vocal behind the scenes this season and has really been studying the scouting reports, despite not playing."
One of my theories for why young rookies suck defensively is because they don't feel comfortable barking out orders at guys with much more standing and experience in the league (also basing this off of my high school sports experience lol). Hopefully being more vocal behind the scenes will translate into Wiseman talking more on the court. Can't play defense in a team sport without communication.
I recall this is what stood out about JTA initially - he was very vocal on the court calling out switches coverages etc which made a big impact on his effectiveness. IDK where I read it though!
Buried in that article is the fact that 75% of LaMelo's 51 3PA have been wide open. He's shooting 44% overall, so I'm surprised defenses are leaving him that open that often... I hope the Warriors are paying attention on Wednesday.
Hah, I read too fast and saw "Melo" and assumed you were talking about Carmelo. Who is not mentioned much in the article. Checked the table and saw who you were actually talking about.
In the "who could possibly have foreseen this!?" category:
"There’s a common pattern to all these images and videos: Defenses just don’t care about the threat of Westbrook’s 3-pointer, and go so far as to actively encourage it. He’s been wide open on 24 of his 28 long-range attempts this season (86 percent), per NBA Advanced Stats. That’s one of the highest rates in the league—and Westbrook is still hitting just 25 percent of his 3s."
Absolute freak of nature and came straight from a lab to make life hell for scorers. Length, speed, timing and IQ. There's a few DPOY awards waiting for this guy in the future. He's going to be Gobert level impactful in the future except you can switch him from 1-5 and he won't get abused
Wagner looking really good in the early stages. That dunk was incredible. Reminder to people to not judge connective-type players (this includes Moody by the way) based upon their Summer League showings please.
The rebounding number so far this season kinda disappointing, I pegged him as a big wing for the Warriors that could even play some smallball 5. So, 4.1 reb per36 doesn't really cut it.
But yeah, 17pts per36 on .611 TS% has been excellent.
Curious to see how the the rest of the season plays out.
Wiseman put up 19.3 pts on .552 TS% last year. League average TS% was .572 TS%, so not great by Wiseman.
In any case, I'm not too worried about scoring from Wiseman. Scoring is his instinct and with the talk of simplifying his offensive gameplan, I expect the efficiency to go up this year.
The main things I want to see from Wiseman are on the defensive end. 10+ rebounds per36, and timely defensive rotations.
> League average TS% was .572 TS%, so not great by Wiseman.
I can't believe a 19 year old rookie with three college games to his name and no preseason in a compressed season with virtually no practice time who struggled with injuries couldn't even be a league-average player!!!
Or... maybe I can believe it, if I actually think about it for five seconds.
Wiseman TS%: .552. 3% worse than league average. Wagner's .611 is 12% better than league average. Now it's way, way too early to actually look at Wagner's stats, but let's not pretend Wiseman's are better.
That positional contrast holds no water for me. Question is were draft picks used properly; and, when drafting, teams aren't limited to positions. So, the Dubs drafted a guy who with coaching (and health) will be a walking 20/10 player. Those are rare.
Now, all rookies have issues. Even more so if you're a rookie with no college, summer league & training camp experience. JW needs to develop, for sure.
But let's hold off on conclusions based on no-context stats.
I remember seeing that play live where Dray stumbled into Looney (11:05 3rd) and wondering what happened.
Was it designed in that the split cut would never be Steph popping out on the initial split? Kind of just a scripted split where it looks like Steph went baseline only to come back on a Looney screen?
Or the original play just broke down and they flowed into another action?
I was watching this game and about 10 minutes in yelled "KLAY PLAY!" because I finally recognized it in real time and everyone else was confused bc klay is on the bench, but I just nodded at them and repeated "klay play".
Clippers nearly lost to the Thunder tonight. They were down for most of the game, but Paul George, Luke Kennard, and Reggie Jackson hit clutch shots to bring the Clippers back from behind.
Second year in a row the pick directly after ours is having a torrid start to the season, but something something something… said player wouldn’t come close to being good on the Warriors because something something something….
I’ll admit, I liked landing Kuminga, solely because I’m a contrarian, and everybody was power down on him. Then he showed up at summer League and proved some narratives wrong, dunked on folks, and I loved him.
Same. Going in I was mostly Team Wagner or Moody at #7, but when Kuminga fell to us and we grabbed him, my first thought was, “wow — Myers is way ballsier than I am!” Still really like the pick. On verra…
Summer league really got me to warm up on Kuminga.
I thought he showed knowledge of pace and timing that I didn't expect from his scouting reports.
I think right away he'll look great in transition, and even in his OKC NBA debut, he had that nice push of the ball in transition, patiently got the two defenders to close on him, and kicked it out to an open JTA.
He'll need a 3pt shot to be effective on the perimeter in the half court, but he's 19yo in the 1st year of a rookie contract, hes got time.
I mean, Wagner isn't going to get to play Minnesota every night :) I watched the beginnings of that game and man, Orlando looked absolutely terrible out there. I was quite surprised to see that they won it in the end.
“Something something” = Kuminga is 19. He dominated Franz head to head in when they matched up in summer league.
Let’s give him another (checks watch) five seconds or so before writing him off?
The thing about getting drafted high is there are like 50-60 intriguing players drafted behind you, and your team’s fans are always gonna whine anytime any of them has a good game.
Remind me again: whyyyyyyyy did we pass on Brandon Jennings?????
Yeah, Wagner/Moody would've been a good draft haul. Perfect mix of win-now, win-later rookies (apart from my guy Sengun who we were never gonna draft. He's still finding his offense but is leading the league in deflections per 36 right now).
Wagner’s been awesome, but you know who’s been even more awesome for them in the early going? Cole Anthony, who was written off as a modified scrub/bust by many last season. Per 36…
I didn’t know much about Wagner coming out (I was fixated on Davion) but have made the Magic one of my teams on league pass because of Jalen Suggs but Wagner has been the best player (not just Rookie) on that team through these first few games. I’d argue that once you eliminate the unicorn outlier that is Evan Mobley, he’s been the best rookie in the NBA so far
I will admit freely that on draft night I was fantasizing about Scottie Barnes falling to us. But when that didn't happen, actually scoring Kuminga and Moody seemed like a massive coup. They will be good.
Fans here were pretty high on Wagner when we were doing that Draft Tourney. If DubNationHQ had been running the last two drafts, the Warriors might have had Haliburton, Wagner, and Moody right now. That would be a young core I'd be very excited about.
I personally would’ve taken Sengun over Moody, but other than that, that was my draft. And we could all still be seriously proven wrong- Kuminga in particular has some extreme potential- but it is frustrating regardless because we’re taking guys whose development curve does not align with a 34-year-old Steph Curry
You’re right, but Kuminga just looks very raw. As did Wiseman. I’m hoping I’m wrong about their development curve. Even if I’m wrong, I still can’t escape the feeling that Lacob and the powers that be are more focused on long-term competitiveness than maximizing Steph’s window and I fundamentally disagree with that approach
Depends if the race is for immediate playability or better career. Former may only take weeks, latter can take years depending on the ages of the players being compared.
I think in the case of Wagner or even Davion there is little doubt they would have fit in seamlessly from Day 1. I think the issue was/is in terms of long term upside. Some of us want players that can complement the core this season. Warriors brass values pure raw physical talent above anything else with the hope that they can contribute while developing
I was just thinking the other day (before this game) we need scoring Draymond back. Much such a difference when Draymond is looking to score and converts.
I’ve also been thinking about the backup point guard position. We seem to have adequate shooting guard / wings again between Wiggins, Poole, D.Lee. But backup PG not so clear. I know people were looking for J.Poole to take that role but he really seems more like a shooting guard right now. Im a big fan of GPII, but as someone pointed once, he may be more like a small forward in a PG body. I’d give him a shot at PG, but not sure it would go well. I have little interest in this point at Chiozza.
I think the second best point guard on the team is Draymond. I had the same thought last year. How crazy would it be to have Draymond sit half of the first and third, and play the whole second and 4th, and when Steph is out let him run the second unit? Poole can play the 2 guard and still be your primary scoring option, but let Draymond run the offense. Obviously the Steph Draymond pairing is magic, but might be worth trying it out a few minutes.
I think we might see more Andre as back up PG until JP regains his rhythm (for as many minutes as we can spare). But I agree JP looking like a guard and someone who could use a bit of structure to work within. Not sure if we want to split Dray & Steph too much. They are so potent together like you said. Could JTA do some of the Dray facilitation…maybe? But I’ll opt for Andre first up
Completely off-topic, we’re visiting some friends on the Big Island for a few days and we got to cross “watch an erupting volcano spew molten lava into the air” off our bucket lists. It was about a mile away and best viewed through binoculars, but it was insanely beautiful.
Not even slightly off topic. Curry is an erupting volcano that will sometimes be dormant then will surprise shock and destroy you. Also insanely beautiful to just stare at when doing his thing.
I got to see that in Hawaii a few years back. You're just like ... holy crap I cannot believe I am seeing this. And then, I hope this damn thing doesn't explode on me. Wonder and fear. No surprise that volcanos were worshiped as gods.
It's the main crater of Mauna Loa, the massive and really only active volcano on the big island. Crazy enough you can see into the crater (or you could last time I was there) from the visitor center in Volcanos National Park there. Just drive up and have a peek! The National Park Service gets this stuff right sometimes.
Watching philly Portland and the sixers commentator just dissing Steph based on nothing. He was like Seth's brother over in golden state hasn't been able to score in the 4th quarter due to the refs not giving him the calls this year
If it was the Portland commentator, let them. They need all the coping mechanisms in the world considering they've literally never beaten Steph a single times in the playoffs (10-0 last I recall).
This includes pre-KD, mid-KD, post-KD too lol. In 2019, we were playing with Iggy and KD injured, and starting/giving rotation minutes to fringe NBA players like Damian Jones, Jordan Bell, Alfonzo McKinnie, Jonas Jerebko, close-to-retirement Shaun Livingston and Quinn Cook. And they were still swept lol.
If it was the Sixers, they tanked for a 1000 years and ended up drafting Okafor, Simmons, Fultz (over Tatum lol). Additionally, they tanked for a 1000 years to avoid mediocrity and they haven't been out of the 2nd round since. Good going guys.
Someone should do a survey or focus group with fans before hiring announcers. Do we actually like their voices? Their insights? Their homer-ism? You too rarely hear fans say "Boy I love that announcer."
LOL... Lillard has gone from 7.3 FTAs per game last season to 3.7. Meanwhile Curry has gone from 6.3 FTA last season (on more shots than Lillard) to 5.7. Those in glass houses should probably just bow down to threesus.
I really hope Wiseman is using his clearance to put some effort into aerobic conditioning. Sure, replicating game intensity is pretty hard, but you can still come close with interval training or other techniques. There’s no reason a young guy should come into regular season games and get gassed after 3 minutes (looking at you Kuminga!).
Before Zion was drafted, I speculated that he would have a tough time staying on the court because of injuries. You had to draft Zion, but you were doing so with the worry that he wouldn't hold up. I'd have rather had the second or third pick.
But he is built like a shorter version of Shaq, with a lot of body mass putting extra force into every step and landing. The biggest difference is Shaq wasn’t knock-knee’d.
I think Shaq was actually less than 300 at that age…and was an athletic marvel at his height. I hope Zion finds that happy medium that keeps a dynamic player on the floor. Older Shaq certainly felt the wear and tear of all that mass.
Anthony Slater is doing a Live Q&A on The Athletic. A response he wrote about Lacob's involvement in the decision-making process:
"Joe Lacob is definitely one of the most hands-on owners in the NBA. It's increased the last half-decade or so. We will see over the next half-decade how much that impacts the Warriors because he certainly is among the most influential figures pushing this risky win-now, develop-now approach."
It's not solely about whether the owner is hands-on or not. It's whether he contradicts or works in alignment with the people he hires. When the owner, president, GM and coach are all aligned, you get San Antonio at their best. When it's not, you get the Knicks at their worst. As far as I've seen, basketball minds like Meyers and Kerr are permitted to do their jobs, which makes all the difference. They seem comfortable saying no to a bonehead owner idea. As far as i can tell from here.
I might be the minority, but I’m not worried about Lacobs level of involvement. He wants butt on seats for the next 15-20 years and to do that he needs a competitive team. We all want to watch a competitive team for the next 15-20 years. Our goals are aligned here
I totally agree. Lacob is not an idiot. People will buy seats if the team is interesting. They don't have to win a championship every year, but they can't suck year after year.
I’m in this line and honestly, the “Wasting Curry’s prime!” battle cry is looking sillier after Steph signed his extension. If he didn’t think “Win now, develop for later now” could work, he wouldn’t have have signed on to it.
You can find examples either way, though. Eddie Dibartolo was VERY involved in the 49ers and it was one of the things that led to over a decade of team supremacy over the league. He wasn't the face of the franchise the way Jones is or involved in daily personnel decisions like Dan Snyder but he was among the most involved owners in the league at that time and his fingerprints were all over the team's success. He made many decisions in regards to the team that normally a GM might make and it paid off handsomely for the 49ers.
As far as NBA ownership, Pistons owner Tom Gores has been owner for over 10 years and is a hands-off guy; the Pistons have stunk for his entire tenure. Ditto Prokhorov, who was a hands-off owner and who oversaw a period of complete ineptitude for the team.
You can't just declare a hands-off owner better than a hands-on owner without looking at other variables, like does the owner hire good basketball people or does he actually know enough about the game himself to be a positive contributor to business choices. Not all owners are equal in what they can offer/provide a team.
and this is exactly why Smiley got so much scrutiny. It wasn't just a scouting miss. It was a scouting miss by the owner's unqualified son, and then a FO sign off to spend assets to get a guy no one was fighting for.
That was an early misstep though, so I'm not sure how much weight the Smiley scouting and acquisition debacle really carries. For me though, I would just generally prefer that the FO hires basketball people and then let's them operate with a fair amount of autonomy. From what I heard Lacob is never stamping his will over everyone else, but it does seem like his opinion matters - so maybe like a middle line between the Cowboys and Pistons?
That's a gigantic middle line since those franchises operate basically as polar opposites of each other.
I won't defend the draft/trades that led to Smiley. I will say that I think it's weird how that decision is singled out as an example of Lacob's ineptitude or meddlesome nature and the other 10 years of drafts under his ownership are largely ignored. It's like he wasn't the owner when the team drafted HB or Draymond or Loon, when the team got Bell and McCaw for nothing but cash, or when the team identified Poole as a player worth drafting at 28. Smiley (and Evans, to an extent) are exceptions and not the norms in a decade of successful drafting. We don't know how much input Lacob had into any of those decisions but I'm willing to bet that he didn't suddenly become way more hands-on with the Smiley draft than he had ever been before. He was in the decision room and his voice was heard.
I bet if Kuminga and/or Wiseman succeed and become positive contributors to this Warriors championship window, Lacob will get little to no credit from the fanbase for being an early and vocal champion of both of them. Credit will be given to the coaching staff for turning them into useful players (which is fair) but not to Lacob. Which is fine, he's a billionaire and is going to be just fine either way. I just think it's a funny way to exercise the "always blame the owner" ethos.
I agree with Backpack23 above, Lacob wants to field a contender and we love watching the warriors, especially when they contend. I can't see anything wrong with this
Hands on involvement from the owner can be a blessing or a curse depending on how he handles it.
If he's taking a seat at the table and advocating for the franchise's best interests while still accepting feedback and expert opinions of his staff? Perfect, we all want the team to succeed.
If he's pushing his own agenda over the best recommendations of people who know the game better than him, watch out. That's liable to get people who know what they're doing to leave (because why bother if the boss is just going to overrule you?) and lead to worse outcomes overall.
There's a continuum between neglect → delegation → involvement → micromanaging and you don't want to be at either extreme.
Hopefully, he’s setting the course of and looking to his team to get there.
He might say something like “We’ve got a mortgage to pay for the next 15 years. Let’s compete now, but I want a future beyond Steph, so don’t empty the shelves like the Lakers did. And let’s discuss any potential deals and players where we can together come to a consensus on that balance.”
Lacob seems to be a bit of a dork who thinks he’s far more cool than he really is simply because he owns The Warriors. (I like to call it “Eddie DeBartolo Syndrome”.)
That said, he’s a basketball junkie as much as any of us and wants to protect his investment. Who among wouldn’t want Myers to run the scenario by us us before pulling the trigger on a trade for Simmons, Beal or anyone else? I’d want to ask a lot of questions, starting with “How many percentage points do you think this increases our title chances?”
I think the Eddie D comp is a fair one, as far as active and involved owners who oversaw a period of team success and dominance and whose involvement can be directly attributed to some of the team's success (in the case of both owners, the biggest shared attribute was a willingness to spend more money than the other teams' owners were).
Yea sure, but Lacob is the same guy who hired all these great basketball minds to help create a winning environment and then just this offseason, hired great development coaches for the young players.
I'd understand the concern if it were any other owner, but not with Joe. He's earned the benefit of any doubt with how he's built this franchise the last 11 years
Success has a history of going to owners heads, which leads to bad decisions. See: Jones, Jerry and Reinsdorf, Jerry, etc. Lacob has no more basketball expertise than you or I. If he’s getting his way in personnel decisions, and all reporting indicates that our recent draft picks were his favorites, that’s a major red flag
I think there is a tendency among some in the fanbase to attribute all of the Warriors championship success to Jerry West and every perceived failure since the last championship to Joe Lacob. It's a stupid perspective that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's out there.
From everything we have been told by all of our beat writers and journalists who write about the team, the Warriors decision-making apparatus is a brain trust where multiple people have a vote and a say in things like personnel decisions and team direction. I doubt that Lacob makes any decisions unilaterally.
Jerry West’s track record of success goes beyond what he did for us, he was a party to a lot of good decisions that this team made and he confirmed that he was basically forced out. He wasn’t an infallible draft ninja or a magic talisman or anything, but forcing a guy like that out is the kind of thing that happens in the last third of your average scarface-hubris-before-the-fall type movie
Yes, exactly! I remember hearing that this team is run more like a tech company in which the best idea wins out. But I guess fans need something to cry about
Will be interesting to see what Kerr does when Steph does eventually - in many productive MVP caliber years god willing - retire. Steph (and Dray) are obviously the heart of the team but Kerr has played a massive part in shaping it the way it is today. A new coach would be in some ways an even bigger reset than Steph retiring.
Another Slater tidbit from The Athletic:
"Wiseman’s situation is different. The Warriors have been trying to improve his game even while he’s in recovery. That’s obviously through film work and regular conversation. Steph Curry came off the floor the other night and had about a two-minute conversation with Wiseman. It seemed he was discussing screen angles because Draymond had just laid a great one to free Curry for a 3. I have heard Wiseman is way more vocal behind the scenes this season and has really been studying the scouting reports, despite not playing."
One of my theories for why young rookies suck defensively is because they don't feel comfortable barking out orders at guys with much more standing and experience in the league (also basing this off of my high school sports experience lol). Hopefully being more vocal behind the scenes will translate into Wiseman talking more on the court. Can't play defense in a team sport without communication.
I recall this is what stood out about JTA initially - he was very vocal on the court calling out switches coverages etc which made a big impact on his effectiveness. IDK where I read it though!
But look at the age and experience JTA vs. Wiseman in their first years as Warriors, though. Not really a fair comparison.
A day left in this mini-break in the season and I am jonesing for some Warriors basketball...
In the meantime, an article on LeBron's early-season shot profile: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/11/2/22757924/lebron-james-russell-westbrook-los-angeles-lakers
Buried in that article is the fact that 75% of LaMelo's 51 3PA have been wide open. He's shooting 44% overall, so I'm surprised defenses are leaving him that open that often... I hope the Warriors are paying attention on Wednesday.
Hah, I read too fast and saw "Melo" and assumed you were talking about Carmelo. Who is not mentioned much in the article. Checked the table and saw who you were actually talking about.
In the "who could possibly have foreseen this!?" category:
"There’s a common pattern to all these images and videos: Defenses just don’t care about the threat of Westbrook’s 3-pointer, and go so far as to actively encourage it. He’s been wide open on 24 of his 28 long-range attempts this season (86 percent), per NBA Advanced Stats. That’s one of the highest rates in the league—and Westbrook is still hitting just 25 percent of his 3s."
This is DPOY worthy https://twitter.com/jackfrank_jjf/status/1453595994025705481?s=21
So far feeling good I had Mobley as my board's #1 lol
Absolute freak of nature and came straight from a lab to make life hell for scorers. Length, speed, timing and IQ. There's a few DPOY awards waiting for this guy in the future. He's going to be Gobert level impactful in the future except you can switch him from 1-5 and he won't get abused
The Cavs have oddly become the most compelling team in the league to me lol, didn't see it coming
They have such a weird mega tower combo. I think they might be good enough for a low playoff seed this year
Crowded field in the east. If they make it, I'm curious about which of the pre-season favorites will be displaced.
That would be really fun. Gotta love an underdog.
Wagner looking really good in the early stages. That dunk was incredible. Reminder to people to not judge connective-type players (this includes Moody by the way) based upon their Summer League showings please.
Wagner was my guy at #7.
The rebounding number so far this season kinda disappointing, I pegged him as a big wing for the Warriors that could even play some smallball 5. So, 4.1 reb per36 doesn't really cut it.
But yeah, 17pts per36 on .611 TS% has been excellent.
Curious to see how the the rest of the season plays out.
‘20-21 Wiseman per 36: 19.3/9.7/1.6 on 54% shooting.
Wiseman put up 19.3 pts on .552 TS% last year. League average TS% was .572 TS%, so not great by Wiseman.
In any case, I'm not too worried about scoring from Wiseman. Scoring is his instinct and with the talk of simplifying his offensive gameplan, I expect the efficiency to go up this year.
The main things I want to see from Wiseman are on the defensive end. 10+ rebounds per36, and timely defensive rotations.
> League average TS% was .572 TS%, so not great by Wiseman.
I can't believe a 19 year old rookie with three college games to his name and no preseason in a compressed season with virtually no practice time who struggled with injuries couldn't even be a league-average player!!!
Or... maybe I can believe it, if I actually think about it for five seconds.
Yeah, which is why I said I'm not worried about scoring from Wiseman.
Well, that's fair :)
Er, forgot no summer league and no training camp.
Wiseman TS%: .552. 3% worse than league average. Wagner's .611 is 12% better than league average. Now it's way, way too early to actually look at Wagner's stats, but let's not pretend Wiseman's are better.
Oh they're far better. We're talking 10 rebounds and 1.6 blks per 36 over a much larger sample size.
Wagner is a wing, Wiseman is a Center. The rebounds and blocks better be better with Wiseman.
That positional contrast holds no water for me. Question is were draft picks used properly; and, when drafting, teams aren't limited to positions. So, the Dubs drafted a guy who with coaching (and health) will be a walking 20/10 player. Those are rare.
Now, all rookies have issues. Even more so if you're a rookie with no college, summer league & training camp experience. JW needs to develop, for sure.
But let's hold off on conclusions based on no-context stats.
Agreed. But let’s also not judge them six games (or six minutes) into their NBA careers.
I remember seeing that play live where Dray stumbled into Looney (11:05 3rd) and wondering what happened.
Was it designed in that the split cut would never be Steph popping out on the initial split? Kind of just a scripted split where it looks like Steph went baseline only to come back on a Looney screen?
Or the original play just broke down and they flowed into another action?
I think it was improv, but we won't know unless we see them do it again in another play...
I was watching this game and about 10 minutes in yelled "KLAY PLAY!" because I finally recognized it in real time and everyone else was confused bc klay is on the bench, but I just nodded at them and repeated "klay play".
Note to EA: Please never call it the "Klay ('Fist') Play" again. "The Klay Play" is perfect.
Tell the team to stop signaling it with a fist and to just point at Klay instead
Clippers nearly lost to the Thunder tonight. They were down for most of the game, but Paul George, Luke Kennard, and Reggie Jackson hit clutch shots to bring the Clippers back from behind.
Steoh is now 110 made threes behind Ray for #1 all-time in threes made.
But: that’s just the regular season. If you count the playoffs, he’s just 25 behind.
And if you count playoffs and the two play-ins, he’s just 13 behind.
So theoretically: he could become #1 all-time next game? :-)
Er, Steph.
Second year in a row the pick directly after ours is having a torrid start to the season, but something something something… said player wouldn’t come close to being good on the Warriors because something something something….
I’ll admit, I liked landing Kuminga, solely because I’m a contrarian, and everybody was power down on him. Then he showed up at summer League and proved some narratives wrong, dunked on folks, and I loved him.
Same. Going in I was mostly Team Wagner or Moody at #7, but when Kuminga fell to us and we grabbed him, my first thought was, “wow — Myers is way ballsier than I am!” Still really like the pick. On verra…
Summer league really got me to warm up on Kuminga.
I thought he showed knowledge of pace and timing that I didn't expect from his scouting reports.
I think right away he'll look great in transition, and even in his OKC NBA debut, he had that nice push of the ball in transition, patiently got the two defenders to close on him, and kicked it out to an open JTA.
He'll need a 3pt shot to be effective on the perimeter in the half court, but he's 19yo in the 1st year of a rookie contract, hes got time.
I mean, Wagner isn't going to get to play Minnesota every night :) I watched the beginnings of that game and man, Orlando looked absolutely terrible out there. I was quite surprised to see that they won it in the end.
“Something something” = Kuminga is 19. He dominated Franz head to head in when they matched up in summer league.
Let’s give him another (checks watch) five seconds or so before writing him off?
The thing about getting drafted high is there are like 50-60 intriguing players drafted behind you, and your team’s fans are always gonna whine anytime any of them has a good game.
Remind me again: whyyyyyyyy did we pass on Brandon Jennings?????
Remember when Jennings gave Steph 55 his rookie year? I was sad that day.
Highlights linked below. Dude looked so good crushing the Warriors.
Who would have thought Steph will go on to be one of the greatest to ever play the game while Jennings isn't even in the league anymore.
I like that the announcers called him "Stephon" Curry....
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=brandon+jennings+warriors+highlights&view=detail&mid=7B6242FB3FCBB325364E7B6242FB3FCBB325364E&FORM=VIRE&PC=APPL
So silky smooth and ruthless!
Yeah, he was right there for the taking, it kinda makes me mad when I dwell on it lol.
Yeah, Wagner/Moody would've been a good draft haul. Perfect mix of win-now, win-later rookies (apart from my guy Sengun who we were never gonna draft. He's still finding his offense but is leading the league in deflections per 36 right now).
Wagner’s been awesome, but you know who’s been even more awesome for them in the early going? Cole Anthony, who was written off as a modified scrub/bust by many last season. Per 36…
20.6 pts on .596 ts
8.1 reb (??)
6.0 ast
+45.7 net on-off
Moral: still wayyyyy too soon on all these guys.
And Bamba, who is just now starting to figure it out in Year 4.
(Whoops, meant as a reply to jzalvarado, below…)
I didn’t know much about Wagner coming out (I was fixated on Davion) but have made the Magic one of my teams on league pass because of Jalen Suggs but Wagner has been the best player (not just Rookie) on that team through these first few games. I’d argue that once you eliminate the unicorn outlier that is Evan Mobley, he’s been the best rookie in the NBA so far
I will admit freely that on draft night I was fantasizing about Scottie Barnes falling to us. But when that didn't happen, actually scoring Kuminga and Moody seemed like a massive coup. They will be good.
Wagner is kicking ass. After - what, six games? - he is looking real.
Fans here were pretty high on Wagner when we were doing that Draft Tourney. If DubNationHQ had been running the last two drafts, the Warriors might have had Haliburton, Wagner, and Moody right now. That would be a young core I'd be very excited about.
Yea too bad that last buncha lottery dudes (Carry, Greene, Tomsone) were all washouts. No fun in Dubville.
I personally would’ve taken Sengun over Moody, but other than that, that was my draft. And we could all still be seriously proven wrong- Kuminga in particular has some extreme potential- but it is frustrating regardless because we’re taking guys whose development curve does not align with a 34-year-old Steph Curry
We don’t know that.
We don’t know Kuminga won’t be better than Duarte/Wagner/Mitchell will (or whoever we preferred at #7) within a year.
And we don’t know Steph won’t age like Tom Brady.
Let's just hope that's the only thing he does like Tom Brady. Well, that and win championships.
You’re right, but Kuminga just looks very raw. As did Wiseman. I’m hoping I’m wrong about their development curve. Even if I’m wrong, I still can’t escape the feeling that Lacob and the powers that be are more focused on long-term competitiveness than maximizing Steph’s window and I fundamentally disagree with that approach
Instead of the boring and hopeless Poole-Moody-Kuminga-Wiseman pile of crap they now have.
Lol. As long as Moody is in the mix, I'll be excited.
It’s ok for fans to lament draft crushes that look good early.
It's also ok for other fans to label those lamentations as "way too early".
Of course. It’s why they call us “fanatics”!
But of course we gotta see how Kuminga fares, way, way too early to "call the race".
When is it not “too early to call the race” tho?
Depends if the race is for immediate playability or better career. Former may only take weeks, latter can take years depending on the ages of the players being compared.
I think in the case of Wagner or even Davion there is little doubt they would have fit in seamlessly from Day 1. I think the issue was/is in terms of long term upside. Some of us want players that can complement the core this season. Warriors brass values pure raw physical talent above anything else with the hope that they can contribute while developing
Wagner would have had success here
I was just thinking the other day (before this game) we need scoring Draymond back. Much such a difference when Draymond is looking to score and converts.
I’ve also been thinking about the backup point guard position. We seem to have adequate shooting guard / wings again between Wiggins, Poole, D.Lee. But backup PG not so clear. I know people were looking for J.Poole to take that role but he really seems more like a shooting guard right now. Im a big fan of GPII, but as someone pointed once, he may be more like a small forward in a PG body. I’d give him a shot at PG, but not sure it would go well. I have little interest in this point at Chiozza.
I think the second best point guard on the team is Draymond. I had the same thought last year. How crazy would it be to have Draymond sit half of the first and third, and play the whole second and 4th, and when Steph is out let him run the second unit? Poole can play the 2 guard and still be your primary scoring option, but let Draymond run the offense. Obviously the Steph Draymond pairing is magic, but might be worth trying it out a few minutes.
I think we might see more Andre as back up PG until JP regains his rhythm (for as many minutes as we can spare). But I agree JP looking like a guard and someone who could use a bit of structure to work within. Not sure if we want to split Dray & Steph too much. They are so potent together like you said. Could JTA do some of the Dray facilitation…maybe? But I’ll opt for Andre first up
Wiseman has apparently put on 17 pounds of muscle form last year . . . nice!!!
I'm always kinda leery of those reports.
Especially if it's all in upper body muscle.
We saw when Looney did that rehabbing from his hip injury, he came in that year looking slow and not very playable that he had to slim back down.
Also, I hear "7 to 10"
Yeehaaaa
I just read 7 to 10 lbs.
Wiseman himself said 17 pounds in a recent interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlkemZFOTxE&ab_channel=LetsGoWarriors
He says 7 to 10
Honestly, I'm hearing 17, but apparently I'm mishearing it if two people are hearing differently.
71 lbs. I just made that up, therefore it's true!
He’s entering Zion territory there…
Completely off-topic, we’re visiting some friends on the Big Island for a few days and we got to cross “watch an erupting volcano spew molten lava into the air” off our bucket lists. It was about a mile away and best viewed through binoculars, but it was insanely beautiful.
Not even slightly off topic. Curry is an erupting volcano that will sometimes be dormant then will surprise shock and destroy you. Also insanely beautiful to just stare at when doing his thing.
I got to see that in Hawaii a few years back. You're just like ... holy crap I cannot believe I am seeing this. And then, I hope this damn thing doesn't explode on me. Wonder and fear. No surprise that volcanos were worshiped as gods.
I saw this with Arenal while in Costa Rica. Super awesome.
It's the main crater of Mauna Loa, the massive and really only active volcano on the big island. Crazy enough you can see into the crater (or you could last time I was there) from the visitor center in Volcanos National Park there. Just drive up and have a peek! The National Park Service gets this stuff right sometimes.
It’s Kīlauea, which is considered a separate and distinct volcano from Maura Loa.
Goofus you are absolutely correct. Damn memory.
Watching philly Portland and the sixers commentator just dissing Steph based on nothing. He was like Seth's brother over in golden state hasn't been able to score in the 4th quarter due to the refs not giving him the calls this year
If it was the Portland commentator, let them. They need all the coping mechanisms in the world considering they've literally never beaten Steph a single times in the playoffs (10-0 last I recall).
This includes pre-KD, mid-KD, post-KD too lol. In 2019, we were playing with Iggy and KD injured, and starting/giving rotation minutes to fringe NBA players like Damian Jones, Jordan Bell, Alfonzo McKinnie, Jonas Jerebko, close-to-retirement Shaun Livingston and Quinn Cook. And they were still swept lol.
If it was the Sixers, they tanked for a 1000 years and ended up drafting Okafor, Simmons, Fultz (over Tatum lol). Additionally, they tanked for a 1000 years to avoid mediocrity and they haven't been out of the 2nd round since. Good going guys.
Someone should do a survey or focus group with fans before hiring announcers. Do we actually like their voices? Their insights? Their homer-ism? You too rarely hear fans say "Boy I love that announcer."
Homers gotta support their own guys.
LOL... Lillard has gone from 7.3 FTAs per game last season to 3.7. Meanwhile Curry has gone from 6.3 FTA last season (on more shots than Lillard) to 5.7. Those in glass houses should probably just bow down to threesus.
Wiseman cleared for full practice participation; meanwhile Zion is out "at least another 2-3 more weeks". Yikes.
Zion's weight relative to height seems like it's going to be a lot for his legs unless he does something about it.
I really hope Wiseman is using his clearance to put some effort into aerobic conditioning. Sure, replicating game intensity is pretty hard, but you can still come close with interval training or other techniques. There’s no reason a young guy should come into regular season games and get gassed after 3 minutes (looking at you Kuminga!).
Get to work JW!!
Before Zion was drafted, I speculated that he would have a tough time staying on the court because of injuries. You had to draft Zion, but you were doing so with the worry that he wouldn't hold up. I'd have rather had the second or third pick.
Ja Morant looking to be a better and better consolation prize. The rest of the ‘19 draft hasn’t done much yet, but it is still pretty early.
These stories about doctors analyzing his knee structure (he’s knock-knee’d) and predicting bad things we’re ominous. https://www.jordanthrilla.com/post/anonymous-doctor-explains-why-zion-williamson-knee-soreness-issue-can-t-be-fixed/
He's not playing basketball consistently at his weight especially with his playing style. No way.
I wouldn't be surprised if Zion could play well 75 pounds lighter.
Shaq played heavier than that. Of course, he was 7'2", so... but yeah, Zion is built like Shaq, so I'm not surprised he can get up there.
But he is built like a shorter version of Shaq, with a lot of body mass putting extra force into every step and landing. The biggest difference is Shaq wasn’t knock-knee’d.
I think Shaq was actually less than 300 at that age…and was an athletic marvel at his height. I hope Zion finds that happy medium that keeps a dynamic player on the floor. Older Shaq certainly felt the wear and tear of all that mass.
Anthony Slater is doing a Live Q&A on The Athletic. A response he wrote about Lacob's involvement in the decision-making process:
"Joe Lacob is definitely one of the most hands-on owners in the NBA. It's increased the last half-decade or so. We will see over the next half-decade how much that impacts the Warriors because he certainly is among the most influential figures pushing this risky win-now, develop-now approach."
It's not solely about whether the owner is hands-on or not. It's whether he contradicts or works in alignment with the people he hires. When the owner, president, GM and coach are all aligned, you get San Antonio at their best. When it's not, you get the Knicks at their worst. As far as I've seen, basketball minds like Meyers and Kerr are permitted to do their jobs, which makes all the difference. They seem comfortable saying no to a bonehead owner idea. As far as i can tell from here.
I might be the minority, but I’m not worried about Lacobs level of involvement. He wants butt on seats for the next 15-20 years and to do that he needs a competitive team. We all want to watch a competitive team for the next 15-20 years. Our goals are aligned here
I totally agree. Lacob is not an idiot. People will buy seats if the team is interesting. They don't have to win a championship every year, but they can't suck year after year.
I’m in this line and honestly, the “Wasting Curry’s prime!” battle cry is looking sillier after Steph signed his extension. If he didn’t think “Win now, develop for later now” could work, he wouldn’t have have signed on to it.
I am. Good owners stay the f*** out of on the court/field issues. Jerry Jones wants butts in seats too. Jerry Buss did it right.
You can find examples either way, though. Eddie Dibartolo was VERY involved in the 49ers and it was one of the things that led to over a decade of team supremacy over the league. He wasn't the face of the franchise the way Jones is or involved in daily personnel decisions like Dan Snyder but he was among the most involved owners in the league at that time and his fingerprints were all over the team's success. He made many decisions in regards to the team that normally a GM might make and it paid off handsomely for the 49ers.
As far as NBA ownership, Pistons owner Tom Gores has been owner for over 10 years and is a hands-off guy; the Pistons have stunk for his entire tenure. Ditto Prokhorov, who was a hands-off owner and who oversaw a period of complete ineptitude for the team.
You can't just declare a hands-off owner better than a hands-on owner without looking at other variables, like does the owner hire good basketball people or does he actually know enough about the game himself to be a positive contributor to business choices. Not all owners are equal in what they can offer/provide a team.
Yeah, when the opportunity to hand out illegal under-the-table cash payments presented were needed, Eddie seized the moment!
and this is exactly why Smiley got so much scrutiny. It wasn't just a scouting miss. It was a scouting miss by the owner's unqualified son, and then a FO sign off to spend assets to get a guy no one was fighting for.
That was an early misstep though, so I'm not sure how much weight the Smiley scouting and acquisition debacle really carries. For me though, I would just generally prefer that the FO hires basketball people and then let's them operate with a fair amount of autonomy. From what I heard Lacob is never stamping his will over everyone else, but it does seem like his opinion matters - so maybe like a middle line between the Cowboys and Pistons?
That's a gigantic middle line since those franchises operate basically as polar opposites of each other.
I won't defend the draft/trades that led to Smiley. I will say that I think it's weird how that decision is singled out as an example of Lacob's ineptitude or meddlesome nature and the other 10 years of drafts under his ownership are largely ignored. It's like he wasn't the owner when the team drafted HB or Draymond or Loon, when the team got Bell and McCaw for nothing but cash, or when the team identified Poole as a player worth drafting at 28. Smiley (and Evans, to an extent) are exceptions and not the norms in a decade of successful drafting. We don't know how much input Lacob had into any of those decisions but I'm willing to bet that he didn't suddenly become way more hands-on with the Smiley draft than he had ever been before. He was in the decision room and his voice was heard.
I bet if Kuminga and/or Wiseman succeed and become positive contributors to this Warriors championship window, Lacob will get little to no credit from the fanbase for being an early and vocal champion of both of them. Credit will be given to the coaching staff for turning them into useful players (which is fair) but not to Lacob. Which is fine, he's a billionaire and is going to be just fine either way. I just think it's a funny way to exercise the "always blame the owner" ethos.
I mean, his opinion SHOULD matter, no? It's his team, he's the one investing heavily into it.
This is honestly a non-issue to me, just another team-news story that gets anxious fans worked up for no real reason
Just what I was hoping to hear *facepalm*
Why facepalm? Is this not a good thing?
I agree with Backpack23 above, Lacob wants to field a contender and we love watching the warriors, especially when they contend. I can't see anything wrong with this
You might even say Lacob’s motto is “Just win baby”
Hands on involvement from the owner can be a blessing or a curse depending on how he handles it.
If he's taking a seat at the table and advocating for the franchise's best interests while still accepting feedback and expert opinions of his staff? Perfect, we all want the team to succeed.
If he's pushing his own agenda over the best recommendations of people who know the game better than him, watch out. That's liable to get people who know what they're doing to leave (because why bother if the boss is just going to overrule you?) and lead to worse outcomes overall.
There's a continuum between neglect → delegation → involvement → micromanaging and you don't want to be at either extreme.
Hopefully, he’s setting the course of and looking to his team to get there.
He might say something like “We’ve got a mortgage to pay for the next 15 years. Let’s compete now, but I want a future beyond Steph, so don’t empty the shelves like the Lakers did. And let’s discuss any potential deals and players where we can together come to a consensus on that balance.”
Lacob seems to be a bit of a dork who thinks he’s far more cool than he really is simply because he owns The Warriors. (I like to call it “Eddie DeBartolo Syndrome”.)
That said, he’s a basketball junkie as much as any of us and wants to protect his investment. Who among wouldn’t want Myers to run the scenario by us us before pulling the trigger on a trade for Simmons, Beal or anyone else? I’d want to ask a lot of questions, starting with “How many percentage points do you think this increases our title chances?”
I think the Eddie D comp is a fair one, as far as active and involved owners who oversaw a period of team success and dominance and whose involvement can be directly attributed to some of the team's success (in the case of both owners, the biggest shared attribute was a willingness to spend more money than the other teams' owners were).
Yea sure, but Lacob is the same guy who hired all these great basketball minds to help create a winning environment and then just this offseason, hired great development coaches for the young players.
I'd understand the concern if it were any other owner, but not with Joe. He's earned the benefit of any doubt with how he's built this franchise the last 11 years
Success has a history of going to owners heads, which leads to bad decisions. See: Jones, Jerry and Reinsdorf, Jerry, etc. Lacob has no more basketball expertise than you or I. If he’s getting his way in personnel decisions, and all reporting indicates that our recent draft picks were his favorites, that’s a major red flag
I think there is a tendency among some in the fanbase to attribute all of the Warriors championship success to Jerry West and every perceived failure since the last championship to Joe Lacob. It's a stupid perspective that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's out there.
From everything we have been told by all of our beat writers and journalists who write about the team, the Warriors decision-making apparatus is a brain trust where multiple people have a vote and a say in things like personnel decisions and team direction. I doubt that Lacob makes any decisions unilaterally.
Jerry West’s track record of success goes beyond what he did for us, he was a party to a lot of good decisions that this team made and he confirmed that he was basically forced out. He wasn’t an infallible draft ninja or a magic talisman or anything, but forcing a guy like that out is the kind of thing that happens in the last third of your average scarface-hubris-before-the-fall type movie
Yes, exactly! I remember hearing that this team is run more like a tech company in which the best idea wins out. But I guess fans need something to cry about
Yeah...we might be in for some very interesting seasons after Curry is gone.
Just wondering: are there any examples of a legend retiring and the resulting team /not/ sucking for at least the next 5+ years?
Will be interesting to see what Kerr does when Steph does eventually - in many productive MVP caliber years god willing - retire. Steph (and Dray) are obviously the heart of the team but Kerr has played a massive part in shaping it the way it is today. A new coach would be in some ways an even bigger reset than Steph retiring.
It’ll be interesting to see who retires first, Steph or Steve.
No Warriors basketball until Wednesday? Thought the offseason is over...