21-22 regular season, 14 dubs over 500 total minutes. Measured by +/- per 48, Kuminga is 13th, Moody is 14th (second to last and dead last). Moody was the only player with negative plus minus overall.
20-21 regular season, 13 dubs over 500 total minutes. Measured by +/- per 48, Wiseman is 13th (dead last).
Let's hope at least one of them makes a run for most improved player!!!
PBJ is most likely player slotted to rehab and build strength with some G League run. Wiseman isn't going to develop anymore in the G League. He has built up his strength and conditioning already. He has had 2 years on the sidelines taking advanced bball classes. All that is left for him to do is play basketball against NBA basketball players. He doesn't learn how to play against KAT or Ayton or anyone else while repping Santa Cruz. So at this point, all the classes, all the improvement, all the lessons can only be gleaned on the court in real minutes.
And yet when Wiseman plays against summer league bigs like Kabengele, he can occasionally struggle. The dude didn't really play college and the G league is getting better each year. Maybe Wiseman is too good for the G league. Make him prove it for a bit.
I'm not with you on this because Wiseman theoretically knows enough about the system and needs the playing time with the team to grow into the position and be a force for the playoffs. There is always the possibility that the dubs may bring in another big guy either for insurance against injury or as simply more depth. If that player can ball, then sending JW to the gleague might be a possibility. We should know more by the end of training camp.
Not sure they can afford to do that with him. This is a #2 pick. When you're this high up, the odds of failure are higher. We'll know more after training camp.
Would you trade JW & Wiggs for KD? Now is the time to decide.
G league has quite the robust schedule from Nov through Mar… i don’t know about “all the games”, but he should play some… needs reps, but if he’s not terrible, he should get his 10-15m of reps with the big club and be a part of the team…
Still, I rather it not be like 2020 where we lose games because we are trying to get wiseman minutes, rather well play him every G league game n hope hes improved a little by march then play him 10 minutes with the team
Unlike 2020, this year the Warriors will actually have a training camp to work out Wiseman's (reduced) role on the team, as opposed to throwing him out feet first into the starting lineup to see what he can do.
It's pretty simple. If he's terrible, he will be sent to G League, if he's not terrible he won't. I get that you're afraid of Wiseman being terrible. Don't let your 2020 PTSD get the best of you. Trust that the team and leadership will know what to do when the season comes around. A few facts to boost your spirits:
1. Wiseman is going through his first ever NBA summer league... on a minutes restriction.
2. Wiseman still has not participated in a single minute of regular offseason training, training camp, or preseason.
3. He's about to get his first 3 months of real NBA training.
I think the Wiseman pick-n-pop, and also the Wiseman rim run will both be great for Steph by occupying the rim protection. Someone else brought up it's also probably good for the Draymond 4 on 3 after the Draymond Steph PNR. But I won't be super happy if our offense devolves to watching Wiseman post up and shoot turnaround Js and jump hooks. That's all I was allowed to shoot in high school and I have no interest watching in on TV.
I do think the best strategy is to start Wiseman in the G-league with a lot of minutes and then bring him up after he regains his footwork and confidence. As opposed to letting him get torched in the big league and then send him down. Moody clearly should start as a main rotation piece, and probably Kuminga too, though I'm sure Kerr will be pulling his hair out with Kuminga.
I guess its all dependent on Wise performance at training camp, but this approach makes sense based on what we have seen. All the more reason to sign that backup big/PF.
I know our FO doesn't seem to think we need a big, but I really think the wear and tear on our guys having to play big a position is not great for their bodies. I'm ready for an extra 7 footer to hit the boards and set some screens for 15 minutes a game, and I would be perfectly fine if they sign Whiteside to that position.
> I'm ready for an extra 7 footer to hit the boards and set some screens for 15 minutes a game
That part makes sense, does the Whiteside part though? He is a complete mismatch with the type of basketball the Warriors play imo. Although honestly I think Wiseman is a mismatch with the type of basketball the Warriors play too.
So far. He states that he thought Kuminga was awful in the game Draymond was present for (New York). Says he was disappointed in how disengaged he looked throughout that game
To be fair. Next sentence he did say Kuminga showed why he was The 7th pick in the draft (games 2&3) and why there’s so much belief and excitement in the organization about him
Yeah, of course… Dray is all about “telling it like it is” and he’s the #1 guy in the organization to give out tough line to everyone. I Remember Otto and Loon chuckling about giving it back to him in some presser. Kuminga deserves and needs plenty of tough love.
Simmons is on more money. Like 5 million more a year or so.
But that is ultimately inconsequential for this summer. Ayton cannot be traded in any way, shape, or form until January 15 now.
The earliest a deal involving Ayton can happen is that date.
Which basically blows up approximately 75% of all multi-team trade speculation (since they involved Phoenix trading for KD) completely into smithereens, and blows holes limiting the others because there is one fewer KD suitor (and potential big contract in Ayton) now.
So, yeah. The odds of a huge multi-team trade rocking the league happening just got a hell of a lot longer today.
“With Phoenix, there's far less belief the Suns will ultimately match whatever offer Ayton can draw. The relationships between him and Phoenix's other primary actors—most notably head coach Monty Williams and point guard Chris Paul—seem untenable for an Ayton return. But there aren't many looming possibilities for him to find the maximum contract he is said to desire.”
I think he originally felt slighted when the Suns didn't give him a max contract last season, and things really soured when the team basically threw him under the bus after the terrible (yet enjoyable) loss to the Mavs this season. There were also reported issues with his character on a supposedly-contending team.
They did have the rest regular season record - by quite a bit - last year. They will win games, sell lots of tickets and merch, and give hope to many Arizonans. And then crumble.
So … assuming no trades, no KD, Kyrie, Ayton, Westie play or not this season? I’m assuming they all do, but what do I know. It would be weird as sh*t if they all just sat. Last season it was Wall and Simmons. This ‘strategy’ really bugs me.
KD will play. He’s too basketball obsessed not to.
Kyrie likely will too. There is a small chance he sits, but it’s likelier that he plays. He will dog it and mail it in, but he will be there.
Westbrook won’t sit. He actually likes playing basketball too much, and he’s not trying to make his way out of LA. He will suck and will drag his team down while he plays, but he will be there.
Ayton likely won’t play. He and the Suns hate each other. The Suns were basically forced to match that offer sheet under duress. But Ayton doesn’t want to be there, so he will sit until he leaves town.
Kyrie is in the last year of his contract and will probably get another contract based purely on talent... but I assume the size of that next contract will take a big hit if he pulls another sit-out year.
I wonder if BKN & KD want to wait til Jan for a trade? I’m sure if the price is right, they will pull trigger and not wait for the Suns. Please may KD remain in the East.
Edit: preferably with BKN, Ben Simmons & Westbrook
It’s only a fantasy that Laker fanboys are wishing into existence to spare themselves from another year of the Russell Westbrick experience being in residence at Staples Center.
I also doubt KD get traded before the summer of next year, either. Brooklyn is not treating Phoenix as some preferential trade partner in any way, shape, or form.
The Nets want the biggest trade package in history to move KD this summer. The fortunes of their franchise for the next decade depend on that if they move KD this summer. No one is giving them that this summer.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Westie gets traded at the deadline to some borderline playoff team desperate for scoring. We will mock them. They will be sad, in the end.
I do not want to give that clown a championship ring.
After all the crap he’s slung at the Warriors and at Steph in particular (who can forget him laughing at Steph and his defense in that press conference in the 2016 WCF), that clown doesn’t deserve a damn thing.
I want him, Harden, Melo, and CP3 to join ol’ Chuck in the “Lord of No Rings” crew. But especially Westbrook.
The thought of the Warriors enabling that clown to call himself an NBA Champion makes my stomach turn.
Westbrook is gonna look so good in his neon hat cheering from the bench in the finals after his 20mpg run down the stretch of the regular season throwing lobs to JW with the starters resting…
How does he have a one-year no trade clause? I hadn't heard "only if he wants to." He can't be traded to Indiana but as far as I know they can send him anywhere else after Jan. 15. Or am I missing something?
I don't really think so. They gave up what, Duane Washington and Nik Stauskas?
They took a swing with very little opportunity cost and it didn't come off. Now they can trade for Westbrook or another bad contract and collect picks. I'd be very interested in Westbrook if I was them considering the Lakers are desperate to be rid of him and because he's an expiring (47 million in cap space next year sounds really appealing). You can them buy him out and let him sign with the Wizards or whichever team he wants to sign with.
Agreed. Ayton seems like the perfect level of player where you’re perfectly stoked to overpay a bit and build around a young core of him and Haliburton if the Suns don’t match … but not really *that* heartbroken if they do match.
My view is that of the youngsters (Poole, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman) I expect wiseman to earn the least on his second contract. All the others have a reasonable shot of getting 20-30M per year on their second contract, and I think the path for wiseman to get to those yearly salaries that soon is unlikely.
I think there's a pretty good chance he signs an extension at a little under that.
Missing his first two years has to be pretty sobering. He probably will value the certainty of an extension, rather than waiting a year and hitting RFA.
I say he will sign a injured!Curry-like 4 year deal at 10-15 million a year after the rookie deal ends. And he will be the most underpaid player in the league at the end of that second contract. Just like Curry was.
That team was crap when he played and really good when he didn't. I don't reckon that's a coincidence.
Of course, drastic things can happen. But currently, the odds of him washing out of the league are roughly similar to the odds of him commanding a max in a year or 2.
Any worry of him getting a max is unwarranted right now. Especially as that is a much better position to be in with reagrds to Wiseman than the one we are in right now (wouldn't everyone be delighted if he shows as much as Ayton has in the next 2 years?).
Let me ask you something. First, some setup: Looney got to work with Jokic's coach, and it clearly made Looney a much better player, especially with rebounding. Decky talked about it, so it's not guesswork on my part. Now who was Decky brought in for? Wiseman. We've seen footage of him listening and doing drills. I have no doubt that this team can maximize Big Jim. My only worries are injuries and ability to be aggressive. Do you doubt this team's ability to bring out the best in him?
I get the argument that they had to match … but this was a horribly mismanaged situation. And there are also consequences.
They’ve now signed Booker and Ayton to massive contracts. Chris Paul is signed at 30 million a year till he’s approaching 40. And a flawed team that many intelligent analysts/hoop heads saw as behind GSW & Memphis then lost in the second round at home to Dallas. Team morale was shot after that Game 7 and this situation can’t make them feel any better.
So now a notoriously … bad … owner has a team 15 mil+ into the luxury tax. If they go out in the second round next year, how does he respond? What do they do next when they’re already capped out and just not good enough?
It’s not a good situation. I understand why Suns fans are hopeful, but this is headed for a disaster. We can debate the root of that disaster, but that team is largely smoke and mirrors.
They will be good this year. If the injury gods smile on them (a LOT) more than other teams, they could make a deep playoff run. But nobody here on DNHQ that’s likely.
Instead their plan probably is - win regular season games, create enthusiasm and hope, then trade Ayton in mid-season for someone(s) good. Good enough to propel them deep in the playoffs.
I’m really looking forward to smacking them around this year.
They had to match. Losing Ayton for nothing would've crippled the team, and taken them out of the KD sweepstakes permanently. Now they can try again at the deadline.
I agree. I think they had very little choice. Even if he just doesn't want to play with the Suns, they just need to sit him for three months, and trade him before the trade deadline.
Even if it isn't for KD, it isn't like Ayton doesn't have value. They can find some team that wants him. Even if they just get a couple of firsts and salary filler, it's better than letting him walk.
He's a player, but 4 years, $133M? I don't know if they'll have a lot of teams thirsty for that. Maybe some small market team that can't attract FAs -- like Indiana...
Of course. Cannot let a player of Ayton's calibre walk for nothing if you are a contender.
The mistake was not giving him a max originally when the downside is not that big. When you're over the cap regardless, it doesn't matter if a guy is making 5-10 million more than he's worth. Situation should never have reached this point. Either pay the man or find a decent trade where you preserve the salary slot without nuking your team's ambitions (someone like Myles Turner or Sabonis last trade deadline).
The actual original sin was drafting Ayton over Luka, but that's way in the past lol.
I get Ayton's side of things in all honesty. #1 pick, put up really good raw numbers in his 2nd year with 19/12 (which is what gets people paid usually), asked to take a smaller role for the team which he does and absolutely thrives and is then told that he's not a max calibre because he's a role player.
I know we joke about what Oubre said ("putting myself in a box"), but I think Ayton has an actual argument there with the Suns.
I agree that he's not a max calibre player, but I can see why he'd think he's been hosed (and of course, he was completely thrown under the bus after G7 against the Mavs).
If the report is true that he wouldn't go into the game (a playoff game 7, no less) when the coach called on him, he threw himself under the bus.
You're a professional basketball player. You get paid millions to play. When the coach calls your number in a game that seems beyond reach, you're not above going in and playing. Sheesh.
[Wojnarowski] ESPN Sources: Restricted free agent C Deandre Ayton has signed the four-year, $133M offer sheet with the Pacers and now the Suns are on the clock to match it. Expectation remains that the Suns will do so and retain Ayton, but they could take the process through Saturday night.
Though I am kinda surprised Phoenix matched. I get why they had to, but that Ayton situation is a ticking time bomb now.
Ayton doesn’t want to be in Phoenix. The Suns really don’t want him on a max contract, and only gave him one because they would be left with nothing if they didn’t. Hard feelings are still all around. And the Suns are now out of the KD sweepstakes.
It really couldn’t have gone any worse for the Suns.
The thing is, the Nets have to demand the moon and stars for KD. They absolutely have to.
Have people forgotten that the Nets literally don’t have their own draft pick until 2028?!?
They have no way to even start rebuilding their team for the next 5-7 years if they try to tank now. Whatever rebuild they will manage will have to be done with the assets they get in a KD trade, because aside from Joe Harris, their other players are underwater in terms of assets on the trade market.
Brooklyn isn’t demanding the biggest trade package in NBA history for KD as a joke, or as a negotiating ploy. The future of their franchise for literally the next decade depends on the return they would get in a KD trade if KD himself isn’t going to be in that future.
I am here for all this smoke
https://twitter.com/pelicansnba/status/1547655794094575616?s=21&t=ki7ylSuYmaqOZNbLkYOVlw
hehe. I was just looking at some old stats.
21-22 regular season, 14 dubs over 500 total minutes. Measured by +/- per 48, Kuminga is 13th, Moody is 14th (second to last and dead last). Moody was the only player with negative plus minus overall.
20-21 regular season, 13 dubs over 500 total minutes. Measured by +/- per 48, Wiseman is 13th (dead last).
Let's hope at least one of them makes a run for most improved player!!!
Wiseman should probably play all the g league games he can this year right? That means we have only looney and small ball dray n kuminga as bigs
PBJ is most likely player slotted to rehab and build strength with some G League run. Wiseman isn't going to develop anymore in the G League. He has built up his strength and conditioning already. He has had 2 years on the sidelines taking advanced bball classes. All that is left for him to do is play basketball against NBA basketball players. He doesn't learn how to play against KAT or Ayton or anyone else while repping Santa Cruz. So at this point, all the classes, all the improvement, all the lessons can only be gleaned on the court in real minutes.
And yet when Wiseman plays against summer league bigs like Kabengele, he can occasionally struggle. The dude didn't really play college and the G league is getting better each year. Maybe Wiseman is too good for the G league. Make him prove it for a bit.
I'm not with you on this because Wiseman theoretically knows enough about the system and needs the playing time with the team to grow into the position and be a force for the playoffs. There is always the possibility that the dubs may bring in another big guy either for insurance against injury or as simply more depth. If that player can ball, then sending JW to the gleague might be a possibility. We should know more by the end of training camp.
Dude can barely catch rebounds yet, he probably needs a full year in the g league
Not sure they can afford to do that with him. This is a #2 pick. When you're this high up, the odds of failure are higher. We'll know more after training camp.
Would you trade JW & Wiggs for KD? Now is the time to decide.
Wouldn't trade Wiggins (26 and an ironman) for Durant (about to be 34 and increasingly out with injuries) in a one-for-one. So no.
G league has quite the robust schedule from Nov through Mar… i don’t know about “all the games”, but he should play some… needs reps, but if he’s not terrible, he should get his 10-15m of reps with the big club and be a part of the team…
Still, I rather it not be like 2020 where we lose games because we are trying to get wiseman minutes, rather well play him every G league game n hope hes improved a little by march then play him 10 minutes with the team
Unlike 2020, this year the Warriors will actually have a training camp to work out Wiseman's (reduced) role on the team, as opposed to throwing him out feet first into the starting lineup to see what he can do.
It's pretty simple. If he's terrible, he will be sent to G League, if he's not terrible he won't. I get that you're afraid of Wiseman being terrible. Don't let your 2020 PTSD get the best of you. Trust that the team and leadership will know what to do when the season comes around. A few facts to boost your spirits:
1. Wiseman is going through his first ever NBA summer league... on a minutes restriction.
2. Wiseman still has not participated in a single minute of regular offseason training, training camp, or preseason.
3. He's about to get his first 3 months of real NBA training.
I think the Wiseman pick-n-pop, and also the Wiseman rim run will both be great for Steph by occupying the rim protection. Someone else brought up it's also probably good for the Draymond 4 on 3 after the Draymond Steph PNR. But I won't be super happy if our offense devolves to watching Wiseman post up and shoot turnaround Js and jump hooks. That's all I was allowed to shoot in high school and I have no interest watching in on TV.
Do you really think a Warriors team chasing championships will regularly devolve into inefficient offense?
Steph will defer to lob dunks. And he will defer to the medical staff when they say he should rest.
I do think the best strategy is to start Wiseman in the G-league with a lot of minutes and then bring him up after he regains his footwork and confidence. As opposed to letting him get torched in the big league and then send him down. Moody clearly should start as a main rotation piece, and probably Kuminga too, though I'm sure Kerr will be pulling his hair out with Kuminga.
I guess its all dependent on Wise performance at training camp, but this approach makes sense based on what we have seen. All the more reason to sign that backup big/PF.
I know our FO doesn't seem to think we need a big, but I really think the wear and tear on our guys having to play big a position is not great for their bodies. I'm ready for an extra 7 footer to hit the boards and set some screens for 15 minutes a game, and I would be perfectly fine if they sign Whiteside to that position.
> I'm ready for an extra 7 footer to hit the boards and set some screens for 15 minutes a game
That part makes sense, does the Whiteside part though? He is a complete mismatch with the type of basketball the Warriors play imo. Although honestly I think Wiseman is a mismatch with the type of basketball the Warriors play too.
FO believes JW will be ready to contribute 15-20 min/game at the start of the season.
>I'm ready for an extra 7 footer to hit the boards and set some screens for 15 minutes a game
Uhhh... you realize this is exactly Wiseman, right? Even at the worst, he's not gonna be that much worse than Whiteside...
Draymond with his thoughts on the young guys
https://youtu.be/FsEJJwvoAtw
So far. He states that he thought Kuminga was awful in the game Draymond was present for (New York). Says he was disappointed in how disengaged he looked throughout that game
He jus flew in from africa to be fair, who knows what he was going through
Yeah I am all about this - jet lag. The guys honestly looked a step behind and frustrated because of it.
Tough love there…
To be fair. Next sentence he did say Kuminga showed why he was The 7th pick in the draft (games 2&3) and why there’s so much belief and excitement in the organization about him
Yeah, of course… Dray is all about “telling it like it is” and he’s the #1 guy in the organization to give out tough line to everyone. I Remember Otto and Loon chuckling about giving it back to him in some presser. Kuminga deserves and needs plenty of tough love.
and Kuminga himself said that was the worst game of basketball he's ever played
Whoa! Wiseman - Holmgren showdown tomorrow!! Posterize him, JW!!
Hopefully, Dray is just baiting Wiseman. Stuff him in the hoop, big Jim!
Free agent guard Austin Rivers has agreed on a one-year deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1547755783248482305
Minny traded their annoying guard so they needed to replace him.
Haha, maybe not that annoying.. he just sucks. Just to clarify, Austin Rivers sucks.
That he does.
I had never heard this story, but definitely on brand for Rivers (the reaction more than the overconfidence, which you have to expect from elite athletes) https://twitter.com/canishoopus/status/1547768922396446721?s=21&t=JKKjouTIo7QUE9_60XXRDw
How do the Ayton - Ben Simmons contracts match up now?
Simmons is on more money. Like 5 million more a year or so.
But that is ultimately inconsequential for this summer. Ayton cannot be traded in any way, shape, or form until January 15 now.
The earliest a deal involving Ayton can happen is that date.
Which basically blows up approximately 75% of all multi-team trade speculation (since they involved Phoenix trading for KD) completely into smithereens, and blows holes limiting the others because there is one fewer KD suitor (and potential big contract in Ayton) now.
So, yeah. The odds of a huge multi-team trade rocking the league happening just got a hell of a lot longer today.
I was thinking of January 15th and a possible 3-team trade.
Can someone explain to me what’s the beef between Ayton and the Suns? Is it just money or something else?
This should be fun now that they matched.
Also beef with CP3:
“With Phoenix, there's far less belief the Suns will ultimately match whatever offer Ayton can draw. The relationships between him and Phoenix's other primary actors—most notably head coach Monty Williams and point guard Chris Paul—seem untenable for an Ayton return. But there aren't many looming possibilities for him to find the maximum contract he is said to desire.”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040325-latest-nba-free-agency-intel-buzz-on-dame-lillard-jalen-brunson-malik-monk-more
A total trainwreck and I’m here for ALL of it lol
I think he originally felt slighted when the Suns didn't give him a max contract last season, and things really soured when the team basically threw him under the bus after the terrible (yet enjoyable) loss to the Mavs this season. There were also reported issues with his character on a supposedly-contending team.
Someone (somewhere today commenting), said suns asked him to take on a smaller role (fewer minutes?) and then used that to justify paying him less.
Sounds like some ego issues on both sides. Makes me thankful for Kevon "It ain't the playoffs until the center gets benched" Looney. He is a pro.
So the Suns are basically going to run it back with a team that choked so so bad and an even older CP3. great idea
And if Ayton doesn't play for them, they're also really gonna miss JaVale McGee.
Ayton might not even play for them again imo, he might sit until they trade him
How many teams are valuing him as a positive asset on that deal though? Not many I'd reckon.
Good point, but that's what I thought about DLo too. Only takes one dumb franchise.
As long as you're not the worst contract, you're tradeable. See: Westbrook (although that may no longer be true)
Well, it takes one dumb franchise and an asset that is equally tradable and underwater.
The Warriors wanted Wiggs, and Minny still had to cough up a FRP to get the deal done.
So it’s not that simple. It’s finding an underwater asset that Phoenix would want, and that the other team is willing to trade.
Doesn't Ben Simmons have a contract about that size? Just sayin...
Fair.
Yeah, he'll turn 38 during the playoffs next year. In theory Booker should improve, but it's hard seeing this Suns team being better than last year.
Maybe they should just play the regular season pedal-to-the-metal, really full bore, and show us how good they are....
Especially if they start cutting guys (Crowder, Cam Johnson e.g.) to duck the luxury tax, as some suspect they will.
They did have the rest regular season record - by quite a bit - last year. They will win games, sell lots of tickets and merch, and give hope to many Arizonans. And then crumble.
So … assuming no trades, no KD, Kyrie, Ayton, Westie play or not this season? I’m assuming they all do, but what do I know. It would be weird as sh*t if they all just sat. Last season it was Wall and Simmons. This ‘strategy’ really bugs me.
KD will play. He’s too basketball obsessed not to.
Kyrie likely will too. There is a small chance he sits, but it’s likelier that he plays. He will dog it and mail it in, but he will be there.
Westbrook won’t sit. He actually likes playing basketball too much, and he’s not trying to make his way out of LA. He will suck and will drag his team down while he plays, but he will be there.
Ayton likely won’t play. He and the Suns hate each other. The Suns were basically forced to match that offer sheet under duress. But Ayton doesn’t want to be there, so he will sit until he leaves town.
If Ayton sits, he doesn't get paid - unless it's a team decision to sit him a la John Wall.
This is the thing I don't understand. Are they just so rich that they don't care that they won't get paid?
Kyrie is in the last year of his contract and will probably get another contract based purely on talent... but I assume the size of that next contract will take a big hit if he pulls another sit-out year.
KD and Kyrie are going to play, even if they're still with the Nets. I can't see them sitting.
I hope so. If Simmons plays they could actually be good. But I have to say the Nets have a lock on bizarro drama queens.
They've got some great ones. But Harden is in nearby Philly -- the one that got away...
I wonder if BKN & KD want to wait til Jan for a trade? I’m sure if the price is right, they will pull trigger and not wait for the Suns. Please may KD remain in the East.
Edit: preferably with BKN, Ben Simmons & Westbrook
That Kyrie-Westbrook deal is not happening.
It’s only a fantasy that Laker fanboys are wishing into existence to spare themselves from another year of the Russell Westbrick experience being in residence at Staples Center.
I also doubt KD get traded before the summer of next year, either. Brooklyn is not treating Phoenix as some preferential trade partner in any way, shape, or form.
The Nets want the biggest trade package in history to move KD this summer. The fortunes of their franchise for the next decade depend on that if they move KD this summer. No one is giving them that this summer.
the Laker-Bois think that there is great value in a 47m expiring contract that people should be lining up for.
He's mighty mighty!
I wouldn’t be surprised if Westie gets traded at the deadline to some borderline playoff team desperate for scoring. We will mock them. They will be sad, in the end.
More likely bought out… then vet min to the warriors for a 🏆
Doesn't play defense or off-ball. Not likely, even on a vet min. And that's before all of the personal stuff.
I do not want to give that clown a championship ring.
After all the crap he’s slung at the Warriors and at Steph in particular (who can forget him laughing at Steph and his defense in that press conference in the 2016 WCF), that clown doesn’t deserve a damn thing.
I want him, Harden, Melo, and CP3 to join ol’ Chuck in the “Lord of No Rings” crew. But especially Westbrook.
The thought of the Warriors enabling that clown to call himself an NBA Champion makes my stomach turn.
I was about to make dinner but after reading that I've lost my appetite.
Westbrook is gonna look so good in his neon hat cheering from the bench in the finals after his 20mpg run down the stretch of the regular season throwing lobs to JW with the starters resting…
🤣
Nooooo! Keep him away!
Ayton can be traded anywhere in mid-Jan, but only if he wants to. He basically has a one-year no-trade clause.
How does he have a one-year no trade clause? I hadn't heard "only if he wants to." He can't be traded to Indiana but as far as I know they can send him anywhere else after Jan. 15. Or am I missing something?
I believe he cannot be traded to Indiana for the whole year though (even if he wants it).
And Indiana was (as far as we know) the only team that was happy to give him that contract.
This situation really stinks for Indiana.
I don't really think so. They gave up what, Duane Washington and Nik Stauskas?
They took a swing with very little opportunity cost and it didn't come off. Now they can trade for Westbrook or another bad contract and collect picks. I'd be very interested in Westbrook if I was them considering the Lakers are desperate to be rid of him and because he's an expiring (47 million in cap space next year sounds really appealing). You can them buy him out and let him sign with the Wizards or whichever team he wants to sign with.
Except: Do the Lakers have picks to trade? I thought they gave up most of everything to get Davis.
Agreed. Ayton seems like the perfect level of player where you’re perfectly stoked to overpay a bit and build around a young core of him and Haliburton if the Suns don’t match … but not really *that* heartbroken if they do match.
We might have to eventually pay Wiseman in excess of 30 million also . . . *hides*
My view is that of the youngsters (Poole, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman) I expect wiseman to earn the least on his second contract. All the others have a reasonable shot of getting 20-30M per year on their second contract, and I think the path for wiseman to get to those yearly salaries that soon is unlikely.
I think there's a pretty good chance he signs an extension at a little under that.
Missing his first two years has to be pretty sobering. He probably will value the certainty of an extension, rather than waiting a year and hitting RFA.
Worked for Steph. Why not?
Yeah, I think the odds are much higher of everyone complaining how the Warriors got lucky again.
Let’s hope!
Yeah… by his third contract.
I say he will sign a injured!Curry-like 4 year deal at 10-15 million a year after the rookie deal ends. And he will be the most underpaid player in the league at the end of that second contract. Just like Curry was.
That would be a great problem to have lol.
Let's hope he becomes a rotation calibre C by the end of his rookie contract first.
If one team sees max potential in him, though . . .
Unless something changes drastically, I wish that team good luck then.
If he blocks Chet tommorrow, he'll always be a max player in my heart.
20 years old playing for his first time in how long? And playing on a crap team when he did play?
I'd say a lot of drastic things can happen...see Poole for evidence
That team was crap when he played and really good when he didn't. I don't reckon that's a coincidence.
Of course, drastic things can happen. But currently, the odds of him washing out of the league are roughly similar to the odds of him commanding a max in a year or 2.
Any worry of him getting a max is unwarranted right now. Especially as that is a much better position to be in with reagrds to Wiseman than the one we are in right now (wouldn't everyone be delighted if he shows as much as Ayton has in the next 2 years?).
Let me ask you something. First, some setup: Looney got to work with Jokic's coach, and it clearly made Looney a much better player, especially with rebounding. Decky talked about it, so it's not guesswork on my part. Now who was Decky brought in for? Wiseman. We've seen footage of him listening and doing drills. I have no doubt that this team can maximize Big Jim. My only worries are injuries and ability to be aggressive. Do you doubt this team's ability to bring out the best in him?
Suns matched as per Shams.
Eminently predictable. Fucked up their team morale for no reason at all.
Dumb FO and dumb ownership making dumb decisions.
Yeah … this is peak stupidity.
I get the argument that they had to match … but this was a horribly mismanaged situation. And there are also consequences.
They’ve now signed Booker and Ayton to massive contracts. Chris Paul is signed at 30 million a year till he’s approaching 40. And a flawed team that many intelligent analysts/hoop heads saw as behind GSW & Memphis then lost in the second round at home to Dallas. Team morale was shot after that Game 7 and this situation can’t make them feel any better.
So now a notoriously … bad … owner has a team 15 mil+ into the luxury tax. If they go out in the second round next year, how does he respond? What do they do next when they’re already capped out and just not good enough?
It’s not a good situation. I understand why Suns fans are hopeful, but this is headed for a disaster. We can debate the root of that disaster, but that team is largely smoke and mirrors.
Yeah. After Ayton signed the sheet, they made the best of a bad situation.
But why did they ever let it reach that situation in the first place lol?
Nate you’re not wrong.
They will be good this year. If the injury gods smile on them (a LOT) more than other teams, they could make a deep playoff run. But nobody here on DNHQ that’s likely.
Instead their plan probably is - win regular season games, create enthusiasm and hope, then trade Ayton in mid-season for someone(s) good. Good enough to propel them deep in the playoffs.
I’m really looking forward to smacking them around this year.
Oh yeah - let me be clear! I’m glad they’re dumb and I hope they keep being dumb! Lol
Here’s to dumb competitors! Doing dumb things!
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." — Napoleon Bonaparte
They had to match. Losing Ayton for nothing would've crippled the team, and taken them out of the KD sweepstakes permanently. Now they can try again at the deadline.
I agree. I think they had very little choice. Even if he just doesn't want to play with the Suns, they just need to sit him for three months, and trade him before the trade deadline.
Even if it isn't for KD, it isn't like Ayton doesn't have value. They can find some team that wants him. Even if they just get a couple of firsts and salary filler, it's better than letting him walk.
He's a player, but 4 years, $133M? I don't know if they'll have a lot of teams thirsty for that. Maybe some small market team that can't attract FAs -- like Indiana...
Oic. half a year minimum time after signing
Of course. Cannot let a player of Ayton's calibre walk for nothing if you are a contender.
The mistake was not giving him a max originally when the downside is not that big. When you're over the cap regardless, it doesn't matter if a guy is making 5-10 million more than he's worth. Situation should never have reached this point. Either pay the man or find a decent trade where you preserve the salary slot without nuking your team's ambitions (someone like Myles Turner or Sabonis last trade deadline).
The actual original sin was drafting Ayton over Luka, but that's way in the past lol.
Absolutely, the root of all evil is - surprise! - Sarver.
[Edit: Although Ayton did bring a lot of this on himself with his bad attitude on a contending team.]
I get Ayton's side of things in all honesty. #1 pick, put up really good raw numbers in his 2nd year with 19/12 (which is what gets people paid usually), asked to take a smaller role for the team which he does and absolutely thrives and is then told that he's not a max calibre because he's a role player.
I know we joke about what Oubre said ("putting myself in a box"), but I think Ayton has an actual argument there with the Suns.
I agree that he's not a max calibre player, but I can see why he'd think he's been hosed (and of course, he was completely thrown under the bus after G7 against the Mavs).
If the report is true that he wouldn't go into the game (a playoff game 7, no less) when the coach called on him, he threw himself under the bus.
You're a professional basketball player. You get paid millions to play. When the coach calls your number in a game that seems beyond reach, you're not above going in and playing. Sheesh.
It's happening:
[Wojnarowski] ESPN Sources: Restricted free agent C Deandre Ayton has signed the four-year, $133M offer sheet with the Pacers and now the Suns are on the clock to match it. Expectation remains that the Suns will do so and retain Ayton, but they could take the process through Saturday night.
…. And the Suns immediately match.
Hammystyle et al, you guys were right (about the matching … no S/T, though).
Yeah, no S&T.
Though I am kinda surprised Phoenix matched. I get why they had to, but that Ayton situation is a ticking time bomb now.
Ayton doesn’t want to be in Phoenix. The Suns really don’t want him on a max contract, and only gave him one because they would be left with nothing if they didn’t. Hard feelings are still all around. And the Suns are now out of the KD sweepstakes.
It really couldn’t have gone any worse for the Suns.
KD is stuck on that crap ass team for at least half the season...sorry not sorry. Lol
Or Raptors or Heat overpay for him
I don't think the Heat have the assets to overpay for him lol.
They really dont. Not many teams do...and the ones that do arent giving up that much for a 33 yr old injury waiting to happen...
The thing is, the Nets have to demand the moon and stars for KD. They absolutely have to.
Have people forgotten that the Nets literally don’t have their own draft pick until 2028?!?
They have no way to even start rebuilding their team for the next 5-7 years if they try to tank now. Whatever rebuild they will manage will have to be done with the assets they get in a KD trade, because aside from Joe Harris, their other players are underwater in terms of assets on the trade market.
Brooklyn isn’t demanding the biggest trade package in NBA history for KD as a joke, or as a negotiating ploy. The future of their franchise for literally the next decade depends on the return they would get in a KD trade if KD himself isn’t going to be in that future.
They’re not insane, but they’re still pretty dumb.
We're at the 'fake airport sightings' stage of the Ayton sweepstakes.