Yes! I liked Jeff Dowtin A LOT in summer league in Sacramento, he might be a very nice surprise. Still on Chriss fir 15th spot, butI wouldn’t mind keeping it open for any unforeseen opportunity.
@Eric: For E1P videos, I know the dubnationhq.com url is present in the first two seconds and last two seconds of the videos, but it would really help to add one of those clickable links on the video (I think they're called "cards"?). Currently the standard end-of-video suggestions by youtube actually cover up the dubnationhq.com text :(
And perhaps a short tagline like, "Join the discussion & community @..." to let people know that there's new stuff to engage with here!
Just seeing that the videos are getting really great viewership, and thinking how to drive more of that viewership here! (33k views on the Bjelica video in just 5 hours!)
Stop! If we help him with marketing, he’s just gonna get huge and ditch us and our puny $5/month subscriptions… EA, add more fart noises and static! It’s what the kids are into on the tock tics and facetube.
It’s a different experience having a hundred thousand anonymous people watching your stuff vs a couple thousand great HQ people that form a thriving community. There’s a reason all the HQ folks fled the click-grabbing writing model to set this place up.
Having said that, YT might help subsidize our work here so I’m giving it a go
I appreciate the suggestions! I’m a bit of a YT beginner and I wasn’t prepared for the videos to get such big views, so there will be an adjustment period.
Now it's time to consolidate the team and its rotation. We should find out very soon who will be the 8-10 man rotation that eats the majority of minutes. Iggy and JTA should be enough to make 10, added on to Bjelica, Porter, DLee. Los rookees will have to beg to get in, other than garbage time, along with Chiozza.
For real. Still not in love with either choice for various reasons but the Warriors did a good job of priming me to accept it with the Bradley experiment lol.
I think mostly Kerr doesn't call timeout for rookie mistakes, he let's them continue making them in garbage time then eats them alive the next day in film session. I'd say a likely candidate for timeouts is to get the rotation players in. Lots of guys deserving of PT, he's gonna experiment a lot in the early going with lineups.
Oct 17, 2021Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball
One issue that has been discussed a lot on the site but was not mentioned in the Comments of the Week is the 15th Guy Debatathon. To save us effort, I'll summarize:
You shot pretty badly/ Adios Avery Bradley
You've never shot well/ Enjoy Europe, Jordan Bell
On the hernia we were waitin'/ Hope we re-sign Gary Payton/ II
Can't hit a 3? Try a fallaway/ In the G-League, Langston Galloway
Kerr gave you the cold shulder/ You'll get picked up, Mychal Mulder
Try to fight through this pain/ In China, Alex Toupane
Question for you collective bargaining agreement capologist nerds out there. Let’s say that OPJ has the kind of year we expect, so 6th man of the year, game winning 3 off a Curry dish to the corner in game 7 of the finals, etc., we naturally want to sign him as we go on title defense in 22/23. Can we use some combination of the TPMLE and non-Bird rights to sign him to an extension he might be willing to sign? IOW, what’s the max we could offer him, and would it benefit us to use this year’s TPMLE relative to next year’s (e.g. get him on a higher salary this year which we could increase using non-Bird rights, etc.)?
• Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (aka “Non-Bird”) Exception: A team may re-sign its own free agent who is neither a “Bird” nor an “Early Bird” player to a contract with a first-year salary of up to the greater of (a) 120% of the player’s salary in the last season of his prior contract, (b) 120% of the player’s applicable minimum salary for the current season, or (c) if the player is a Restricted Free Agent, his Qualifying Offer amount.
Early bird 175%
Tpmle $5.337
To max the next two year’s offers if they take on all the extra tax this year instead of just offering him the Tpmle next year is:
The cap is pretty much irrelevant, the problem the Warriors have with signing anybody is the luxury tax. Even if OPJ agreed to a $5m salary the tax hit to the Warriors would be something like $30m and if he has a great year, he won't be settling for $5m. The only way the Warriors can afford to sign another high salary player and stay under the $400m threshold is to find a trading partner with cap space to take Wiggins.
All of that may or may not be the case, but doesn’t answer the question. The question is, what would we be able to offer OPJ if we really wanted to extend him? IOW, could we do better than next year’s TMLE if we leveraged what we still have for this one?
The reality is there is probably some level of OPJ career rebirth that puts this in play. Obviously if the dude shoes out like a $25MM starter we’re losing him
They could also have traded Wiggins for two smaller contracts. Maybe one of them is expiring, or maybe they turn around and trade one of those two smaller contracts to a team with cap space.
Before Delon Wright was traded from the Kings, I remember reading the framework of a deal like Wiggins for Harrison Barnes/Wright as the basis of a deal (maybe swapping #7 and #9 as well). Wright is on an expiring contract and makes like 8.5 million this year. Barnes makes about 20 million for two more seasons.
Not saying that trade was on the table, but if the Warriors weren't locked in on only trading Wiggins as part of a deal for a superstar, there were probably moves they could have made imo.
It reduces the luxury tax payments though, especially if you plan to keep the big 3 + Poole (who'll almost certainly earn upwards of 20 mil a year on his next contract).
Speaking of purely salary cap math, you are right. However, we've seen Lacob be reticent to spend money in recent years around the margins due to ginormous tax bills so I think it still matters a great deal (no one can seriously expect us to have 5 20-25 million plus contracts with Steph and Klay earning 50 and 40 million respectively).
If either of Moody or Kuminga makes a leap in development, then trading Wiggins before next season makes a lot of sense (assuming he's continued to build on/solidy his value).
He's going to have negative value for his entire contract because he'll never be worth 30 million, but perhaps being on an expiring contract could make him movable if the Warriors are motivated. Speaking of OPJ, that basically just happened last year with his contract in the Vucevic trade.
From what I've seen from Lacob the past few years though, I'd guess they are just going to let him walk in free agency and let another "salary slot" expire. Lacob hasn't shown any indication he wants to be on the hook for a Wiggins-sized salary as well as whatever Poole will cost imo.
If Draymond is still so good that he's worth a max starting when he's 33, why would we let the heartbeat of the team go? Who would do for us what he does? I am a JTA fan but Juan is at most Draymond Lite.
Which non-Warriors player do y'all think is poised to make the biggest leap this year? Obviously people have high hopes for LaMelo Ball and Anthony Edwards after they had strong rookie seasons; and other young guys like Zion, Morant, and Ayton are still on the upswing along with bigger stars who still have room to grow, like Trae or Tatum.
I think maybe Dejounte Murray on the Spurs gets a big boost due to being more featured in the offense. And there are so many borderline guys who might get better it's hard to even guess.
MPJ could easily average 25-27 pts on ridiculous efficiency. He's going to be a better Klay offensively basically and doesn't get the respect he deserves (not nearly the defender though, quite the opposite).
MPJ seems to be getting a lot of love these days from a lot of fans and basketball writing outlets. There was just an article about him in the Ringer a few days ago and I read something in the Athletic about him recently too. I agree he's very good but he gets plenty of respect around the NBAverse.
Oh yeah, both those guys are prime real estate. It's hard to see the rest of the team doing anything but tank, but even so they can probably put up good numbers if they're allowed to lol
Yeah, I'm not sure which one to keep an eye on most but Memphis has several high-upside guys including those two. Reasonably safe bet they'll improve, question is by how much.
Thought the case for Garland was strong. Also like what Detroit has been doing, and suspect the main guys individually and collectively will look vastly improved this year.
Something completely shifted following the offseason of his rookie campaign. People point to his stint in the G League bubble as the turning point, and it may have been the moment where he finally altered the Warriors’ loftiest projections into production. However, sources around Poole note that he was in the gym tirelessly after his rookie season and in the lead-up to his sophomore year. He improved as much as anyone possibly could have in a shortened offseason and regained the confidence that made him one of the more aggressive shot hunters in college hoops as a sophomore. More than that, though, you can see how his approach has changed.
There’s an intensity now, as opposed to what could be construed as a carefree attitude on the court earlier in his career.
...
He plays with real intent on offense. There’s certainly a level of improvement that needs to come on defense, especially in terms of attention to detail in rotation. But I think he averages over 17 points per game this season and becomes a genuine building block for the Warriors as they make another run toward a title. With Klay Thompson likely out until around Christmas, Poole’s emergence changes a lot for the Warriors as they try to push for a title ...
One possibility that no one has mentioned is if there was some financial demand that Bradley's agent made that the Warriors wouldn't meet. More money? bonuses? Who knows. In this case, I don't think the players are running the show. AB is not that important to this team. Toupane is a way better player bringing more value plus the Dubs get more flexibility towards the trade deadline later in the season.
He played for us in the 2020 disaster season. He showed something but made his mark in the gleague. Age doesn't matter for the #15. He's younger than AB and has size for a 3 and D player. I like him.
It's about 10 paragraphs, and nuanced in consideration of AB vs GP2 and the implications for the pre-Klay starting lineup, but here's an excerpt:
Bigger question, though: If the stars wanted Bradley, why not just give them Bradley? After not cashing in the picks like they wanted, after asking them to simultaneously be dominant while also mentoring, giving them who they want for the 15th roster spot feels like a small ask. If the Warriors end up not filling the spot, they will send a message that saving money is the priority over winning. If they end up filling the spot by bringing back Payton, they’d be driving home the message that developing takes precedence over winning. And in the grand scheme of the franchise, it’s typically a bad plan in the NBA to make your star players feel like they have no power. LeBron James got the player he wanted even at the expense of a better trade, and Curry can’t dictate the 15th roster spot? Green is being asked to play more center, anchor the defense and make do with a roster stripped of defenders, and he can’t get the one guy he thinks can help him?
With all due respect to MT2, how does bringing back Payton, who is not a rookie, emphasize development? A fair argument can be made that Payton is a better player on both sides of the ball than Avery Bradley. And did Draymond actually say Bradley is “the one guy” Dray thinks can help him? Now, maybe MT2 knows exactly what the players told Myers and Lacob and what the reply was. Maybe. But I wonder how hard the stars pushed for Bradley. (I of course don’t know. Does MT2 really know?) Steph, Klay, and Dray were consulted about the draft and the free agents, and they got the draft picks they wanted (at least that Draymond wanted because he said as much), and they seem pretty pleased with the free agents too. So it’s not like they have no say. I dunno, maybe MT2 is right but it seems like just a hot take to me.
The article addresses this. It even talks about putting AB in the starting lineup as a POA defender. e.g. season opener so he can defend Russ. As is, Curry will have to defend Russ, which creates more wear and tear on Curry. JP wouldn't be ready to defend vs. Russ. Doing this, would also give JP a more consistent rotation for once Klay returns.
Neither Bradley nor GP2 was getting close to the starting lineup in any case. We have Poole, Porter, and Lee for that role — plus that Klay guy in a couple months.
For the 0-10 minute role either GP2 or Bradley was going to play … GP2 is a much better player than Bradley. Vastly better rebounder, more rugged and athletic, better passer/playmaker.
Steph has always owned Russ on both ends of the floor; and Russ alongside LeBron is a laughably bad fit. I don’t know why anyone give a moment’s concern to the Steph/Russ matchup.
As far as ruffling Steph’s and Dray’s feathers: meh. To the extent that either of them cares that much — and I’ll believe they do when I see an actual quote on the subject — Steph’s and Dray’s feathers were also ruffled when we sh*tcanned Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr. And Draymond was all in on us drafting Jacob Evans. There’s a reason Myers is GM and the players are not.
Every team can offer a minimum salary even if you're over the cap (excluding wacky situations like being hard capped due to sign and trade). So Avery would get a minimum or they'd need the MLE to go over the minimum.
The incredible increase in TV revenue has driven amazing growth in salary. Although of all players I would guess MJ is in the highest level of sponsorship revenue. I'm not sure if he or Nike are worth more after that legendary pairing. He also flogged a lot of Gatorade.
Yeah but the point sabrina is making is that arguably the greatest player in history was grossly underpaid by his employer for the majority of his career. No one is crying for MJ's bank account right now but the vast majority of that came from endorsements he secured by himself and not from his league salary, which still says something about the league.
I'm with the Suns and would definitely not max a non-superstar big man. There aren't many traditional big men worth that money imo. But it's also weird that they (correctly) wouldn't want to do that when they drafted him #1 overall.
Warriors may be dealing with this dilemma in a few years themselves, although if Wiseman becomes as good as Ayton then hopefully they at least made one more serious run at a title.
But they kinda have to max him though unless they plan on trading him this year. I agree that Ayton's not a max player, but I find it almost impossible to believe that someone will not offer him a max when he hits restricted free agency (and they can also insert poison pills into that contract which Brooklyn (?) used to do).
Yeah I agree that they kinda have to, which is one of the reasons I really hate the idea of drafting a traditional big man top 5 in the draft. Putting yourself in a very difficult situation by design, which is one of the reasons I would personally not have picked Wiseman.
I am not envious of Utah for the max that Gobert got either. And my hottest take is that I don't even love it for Jokic, it's basically only Embiid who I'd feel comfortable with giving that money to and even then the injury risk is worrisome.
Jokic is one of the greatest offensive players of all time lol. If he's not worthy of a max, there's like 10 players in history who are.
And Gobert basically guarantees a top 5 defense to his teams. Plus, his playoff on-off splits are still amazing and he has traditionally still been a really impactful defender in the playoffs.
Top level Cs are still worth the money (the guys you mentioned + AD, KAT, Bam etc), it's the mid-tier ones who usually aren't. Agree that when all things are held equal, Cs should be drafted last due to:
- they restrict options (1 position players)
- the difference between a good outcome (say 60th percentile outcome) for a really good prospect and an average C isn't really that big. For example, if Cade or Jalen Green reach their 60th percentile outcome, they are still really valuable players. If Mobley does, 80-90% of his production can be matched by guys who take the minimum/TPMLE.
As for Wiseman, if he ever gets to a situation where this is even a discussion, then that's a great situation to be in.
Finally got a top comment! I can go back to more lurking and quick quips.
Congrats!
Yes! I liked Jeff Dowtin A LOT in summer league in Sacramento, he might be a very nice surprise. Still on Chriss fir 15th spot, butI wouldn’t mind keeping it open for any unforeseen opportunity.
Lakers so old they added Avery Bradley for development.
lol... i still had this tab open... good one
Other thread? No way! I’m never leaving this thread and you can’t make me!
Great interview with Draymond: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/10/18/22728821/draymond-green-golden-state-warriors-nba-2021-22-season
@Eric: For E1P videos, I know the dubnationhq.com url is present in the first two seconds and last two seconds of the videos, but it would really help to add one of those clickable links on the video (I think they're called "cards"?). Currently the standard end-of-video suggestions by youtube actually cover up the dubnationhq.com text :(
And perhaps a short tagline like, "Join the discussion & community @..." to let people know that there's new stuff to engage with here!
Just seeing that the videos are getting really great viewership, and thinking how to drive more of that viewership here! (33k views on the Bjelica video in just 5 hours!)
Stop! If we help him with marketing, he’s just gonna get huge and ditch us and our puny $5/month subscriptions… EA, add more fart noises and static! It’s what the kids are into on the tock tics and facetube.
It’s a different experience having a hundred thousand anonymous people watching your stuff vs a couple thousand great HQ people that form a thriving community. There’s a reason all the HQ folks fled the click-grabbing writing model to set this place up.
Having said that, YT might help subsidize our work here so I’m giving it a go
Yeah… I hear it’s a different experience making it rain with Benjamins vs Roosevelts, but I wouldn’t know
I appreciate the suggestions! I’m a bit of a YT beginner and I wasn’t prepared for the videos to get such big views, so there will be an adjustment period.
That's gotta be hard on you, having all those fans. Hold strong, brother. Hold strong.
Now it's time to consolidate the team and its rotation. We should find out very soon who will be the 8-10 man rotation that eats the majority of minutes. Iggy and JTA should be enough to make 10, added on to Bjelica, Porter, DLee. Los rookees will have to beg to get in, other than garbage time, along with Chiozza.
GP2 and Mulder were waived on Friday at like 9:30 PM PST (using Slater's tweet as a reference point), so I think they clear waivers in like two hours.
Didn't think we'd ever get Mychal Mulder or Gary Payton the 2nd watch but here we are.
For real. Still not in love with either choice for various reasons but the Warriors did a good job of priming me to accept it with the Bradley experiment lol.
I'm sure that was the strat haha
Thx for that. Was wondering how long it would take. If GP2 gets through waivers, let’s see what the dubs do.
Pseudo poll: This year, will Kerr call more timeouts because of Bjelica not getting back in transition or because of rookies’ mistakes?
I think mostly Kerr doesn't call timeout for rookie mistakes, he let's them continue making them in garbage time then eats them alive the next day in film session. I'd say a likely candidate for timeouts is to get the rotation players in. Lots of guys deserving of PT, he's gonna experiment a lot in the early going with lineups.
Option 3: Poole giving up a back door cut
Poole will have way more opportunities in this competition
Ha! Good question. I’d vote for rookies because there are two of them, but it’s close.
Good vid on JP with lots of background from HS thru Mich.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o145HO0XWY4
One issue that has been discussed a lot on the site but was not mentioned in the Comments of the Week is the 15th Guy Debatathon. To save us effort, I'll summarize:
You shot pretty badly/ Adios Avery Bradley
You've never shot well/ Enjoy Europe, Jordan Bell
On the hernia we were waitin'/ Hope we re-sign Gary Payton/ II
Can't hit a 3? Try a fallaway/ In the G-League, Langston Galloway
Kerr gave you the cold shulder/ You'll get picked up, Mychal Mulder
Try to fight through this pain/ In China, Alex Toupane
[-- PS: L.J. Figueroa... I got nothin']
L.J. Figueroa / I don't hardly know ya
Couplets that rhyme / Always a good time
Every time these “comments of the week” come out, I find myself trying to like the comments, particularly my own.
i gotchu fam
Question for you collective bargaining agreement capologist nerds out there. Let’s say that OPJ has the kind of year we expect, so 6th man of the year, game winning 3 off a Curry dish to the corner in game 7 of the finals, etc., we naturally want to sign him as we go on title defense in 22/23. Can we use some combination of the TPMLE and non-Bird rights to sign him to an extension he might be willing to sign? IOW, what’s the max we could offer him, and would it benefit us to use this year’s TPMLE relative to next year’s (e.g. get him on a higher salary this year which we could increase using non-Bird rights, etc.)?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nba.com/news/free-agency-explained%3Famp%3D1
• Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (aka “Non-Bird”) Exception: A team may re-sign its own free agent who is neither a “Bird” nor an “Early Bird” player to a contract with a first-year salary of up to the greater of (a) 120% of the player’s salary in the last season of his prior contract, (b) 120% of the player’s applicable minimum salary for the current season, or (c) if the player is a Restricted Free Agent, his Qualifying Offer amount.
Early bird 175%
Tpmle $5.337
To max the next two year’s offers if they take on all the extra tax this year instead of just offering him the Tpmle next year is:
$6.4 mil 2022
$11,207 mil 2023
Then max eligible 2024
Not taking on the extra tax this year:
$5.337 (or adjusted) 2022
$9.3 2023
Max 2024
Game 7 of the finals? Please, I know Giannis is good but we've got them in 6 no problem
The cap is pretty much irrelevant, the problem the Warriors have with signing anybody is the luxury tax. Even if OPJ agreed to a $5m salary the tax hit to the Warriors would be something like $30m and if he has a great year, he won't be settling for $5m. The only way the Warriors can afford to sign another high salary player and stay under the $400m threshold is to find a trading partner with cap space to take Wiggins.
All of that may or may not be the case, but doesn’t answer the question. The question is, what would we be able to offer OPJ if we really wanted to extend him? IOW, could we do better than next year’s TMLE if we leveraged what we still have for this one?
The reality is there is probably some level of OPJ career rebirth that puts this in play. Obviously if the dude shoes out like a $25MM starter we’re losing him
They could also have traded Wiggins for two smaller contracts. Maybe one of them is expiring, or maybe they turn around and trade one of those two smaller contracts to a team with cap space.
Before Delon Wright was traded from the Kings, I remember reading the framework of a deal like Wiggins for Harrison Barnes/Wright as the basis of a deal (maybe swapping #7 and #9 as well). Wright is on an expiring contract and makes like 8.5 million this year. Barnes makes about 20 million for two more seasons.
Not saying that trade was on the table, but if the Warriors weren't locked in on only trading Wiggins as part of a deal for a superstar, there were probably moves they could have made imo.
Trading Wiggins isn’t enough to get below the cap either, I think. Steph+Klay+Dray is 110m already.
It reduces the luxury tax payments though, especially if you plan to keep the big 3 + Poole (who'll almost certainly earn upwards of 20 mil a year on his next contract).
Yes… but in the context of “how much can we offer OPJ?” It would be meaningless.
Speaking of purely salary cap math, you are right. However, we've seen Lacob be reticent to spend money in recent years around the margins due to ginormous tax bills so I think it still matters a great deal (no one can seriously expect us to have 5 20-25 million plus contracts with Steph and Klay earning 50 and 40 million respectively).
If either of Moody or Kuminga makes a leap in development, then trading Wiggins before next season makes a lot of sense (assuming he's continued to build on/solidy his value).
He's going to have negative value for his entire contract because he'll never be worth 30 million, but perhaps being on an expiring contract could make him movable if the Warriors are motivated. Speaking of OPJ, that basically just happened last year with his contract in the Vucevic trade.
From what I've seen from Lacob the past few years though, I'd guess they are just going to let him walk in free agency and let another "salary slot" expire. Lacob hasn't shown any indication he wants to be on the hook for a Wiggins-sized salary as well as whatever Poole will cost imo.
If Draymond is still so good that he's worth a max starting when he's 33, why would we let the heartbeat of the team go? Who would do for us what he does? I am a JTA fan but Juan is at most Draymond Lite.
Which non-Warriors player do y'all think is poised to make the biggest leap this year? Obviously people have high hopes for LaMelo Ball and Anthony Edwards after they had strong rookie seasons; and other young guys like Zion, Morant, and Ayton are still on the upswing along with bigger stars who still have room to grow, like Trae or Tatum.
I think maybe Dejounte Murray on the Spurs gets a big boost due to being more featured in the offense. And there are so many borderline guys who might get better it's hard to even guess.
MPJ could easily average 25-27 pts on ridiculous efficiency. He's going to be a better Klay offensively basically and doesn't get the respect he deserves (not nearly the defender though, quite the opposite).
MPJ seems to be getting a lot of love these days from a lot of fans and basketball writing outlets. There was just an article about him in the Ringer a few days ago and I read something in the Athletic about him recently too. I agree he's very good but he gets plenty of respect around the NBAverse.
Could be wayyyyy off if the decree from above is to lose as many games as possible again, but: Dort and SGA feel ready to explode this year.
Oh yeah, both those guys are prime real estate. It's hard to see the rest of the team doing anything but tank, but even so they can probably put up good numbers if they're allowed to lol
Zion needs to be gone from the Pels to make a sizable leap to stardom...and needs to drop some weight to stay healthy
I am guessing that several of the young Memphis guys besides Ja will be better this season.
Agree. Dillon Brooks comes to mind as does Jaren Jackson, Jr.
Yeah, I'm not sure which one to keep an eye on most but Memphis has several high-upside guys including those two. Reasonably safe bet they'll improve, question is by how much.
OG Anunoby
I thought this was a pretty goid take on that question: https://theathletic.com/2875576/2021/10/15/jordan-poole-isaiah-stewart-and-more-sam-vecenies-7-breakout-candidates-for-2021-22/?source=emp_shared_article
Thought the case for Garland was strong. Also like what Detroit has been doing, and suspect the main guys individually and collectively will look vastly improved this year.
Can you share the Poole part? Thanks.
It's long, but here's an excerpt:
Something completely shifted following the offseason of his rookie campaign. People point to his stint in the G League bubble as the turning point, and it may have been the moment where he finally altered the Warriors’ loftiest projections into production. However, sources around Poole note that he was in the gym tirelessly after his rookie season and in the lead-up to his sophomore year. He improved as much as anyone possibly could have in a shortened offseason and regained the confidence that made him one of the more aggressive shot hunters in college hoops as a sophomore. More than that, though, you can see how his approach has changed.
There’s an intensity now, as opposed to what could be construed as a carefree attitude on the court earlier in his career.
...
He plays with real intent on offense. There’s certainly a level of improvement that needs to come on defense, especially in terms of attention to detail in rotation. But I think he averages over 17 points per game this season and becomes a genuine building block for the Warriors as they make another run toward a title. With Klay Thompson likely out until around Christmas, Poole’s emergence changes a lot for the Warriors as they try to push for a title ...
One possibility that no one has mentioned is if there was some financial demand that Bradley's agent made that the Warriors wouldn't meet. More money? bonuses? Who knows. In this case, I don't think the players are running the show. AB is not that important to this team. Toupane is a way better player bringing more value plus the Dubs get more flexibility towards the trade deadline later in the season.
I am unfamiliar with Toupane. I looked up his NBA record, and it's pretty thin. What's the story?
He played for us in the 2020 disaster season. He showed something but made his mark in the gleague. Age doesn't matter for the #15. He's younger than AB and has size for a 3 and D player. I like him.
Not bad. But he's 29 so maybe mostly SC roster filler.
Warriors are trying to save money. This is the obvious move keeping the #15 spot open until they get a player that they feel is BINGO.
They will likely keep GP2 on a renegotiated non guaranteed contract that can be dumped s as soon as something better comes around.
This came from an MT2 article in the athletic. It's a great take on the 15th roster spot decision.
https://theathletic.com/2892947/2021/10/17/sunday-randomness-the-49ers-dont-have-to-look-far-for-an-important-lesson-on-trey-lance/
It's about 10 paragraphs, and nuanced in consideration of AB vs GP2 and the implications for the pre-Klay starting lineup, but here's an excerpt:
Bigger question, though: If the stars wanted Bradley, why not just give them Bradley? After not cashing in the picks like they wanted, after asking them to simultaneously be dominant while also mentoring, giving them who they want for the 15th roster spot feels like a small ask. If the Warriors end up not filling the spot, they will send a message that saving money is the priority over winning. If they end up filling the spot by bringing back Payton, they’d be driving home the message that developing takes precedence over winning. And in the grand scheme of the franchise, it’s typically a bad plan in the NBA to make your star players feel like they have no power. LeBron James got the player he wanted even at the expense of a better trade, and Curry can’t dictate the 15th roster spot? Green is being asked to play more center, anchor the defense and make do with a roster stripped of defenders, and he can’t get the one guy he thinks can help him?
With all due respect to MT2, how does bringing back Payton, who is not a rookie, emphasize development? A fair argument can be made that Payton is a better player on both sides of the ball than Avery Bradley. And did Draymond actually say Bradley is “the one guy” Dray thinks can help him? Now, maybe MT2 knows exactly what the players told Myers and Lacob and what the reply was. Maybe. But I wonder how hard the stars pushed for Bradley. (I of course don’t know. Does MT2 really know?) Steph, Klay, and Dray were consulted about the draft and the free agents, and they got the draft picks they wanted (at least that Draymond wanted because he said as much), and they seem pretty pleased with the free agents too. So it’s not like they have no say. I dunno, maybe MT2 is right but it seems like just a hot take to me.
The article addresses this. It even talks about putting AB in the starting lineup as a POA defender. e.g. season opener so he can defend Russ. As is, Curry will have to defend Russ, which creates more wear and tear on Curry. JP wouldn't be ready to defend vs. Russ. Doing this, would also give JP a more consistent rotation for once Klay returns.
Neither Bradley nor GP2 was getting close to the starting lineup in any case. We have Poole, Porter, and Lee for that role — plus that Klay guy in a couple months.
For the 0-10 minute role either GP2 or Bradley was going to play … GP2 is a much better player than Bradley. Vastly better rebounder, more rugged and athletic, better passer/playmaker.
Steph has always owned Russ on both ends of the floor; and Russ alongside LeBron is a laughably bad fit. I don’t know why anyone give a moment’s concern to the Steph/Russ matchup.
As far as ruffling Steph’s and Dray’s feathers: meh. To the extent that either of them cares that much — and I’ll believe they do when I see an actual quote on the subject — Steph’s and Dray’s feathers were also ruffled when we sh*tcanned Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr. And Draymond was all in on us drafting Jacob Evans. There’s a reason Myers is GM and the players are not.
Exactly. I think the Jacob Evans incident is reason enough to apply some discount to Dray’s views.
Reminds me of the meme from Ghostbusters, "You do your job, pencil-neck, don't tell me how to do mine," said the front office.
Interesting... also Andre listed Bradley as a major factor for the team earlier in the week..
Every team can offer a minimum salary even if you're over the cap (excluding wacky situations like being hard capped due to sign and trade). So Avery would get a minimum or they'd need the MLE to go over the minimum.
Sounds like players are cornering the front office into a gritty vet for that 15th spot.
Any newer quotes or rumors? Or are they just writing articles based on old quotes from before preseason even started?
The October 4 quote from Steph is from before preseason started. Was there any more recent quotes? I didn’t see any…
The incredible increase in TV revenue has driven amazing growth in salary. Although of all players I would guess MJ is in the highest level of sponsorship revenue. I'm not sure if he or Nike are worth more after that legendary pairing. He also flogged a lot of Gatorade.
Yeah but the point sabrina is making is that arguably the greatest player in history was grossly underpaid by his employer for the majority of his career. No one is crying for MJ's bank account right now but the vast majority of that came from endorsements he secured by himself and not from his league salary, which still says something about the league.
I'm with the Suns and would definitely not max a non-superstar big man. There aren't many traditional big men worth that money imo. But it's also weird that they (correctly) wouldn't want to do that when they drafted him #1 overall.
Warriors may be dealing with this dilemma in a few years themselves, although if Wiseman becomes as good as Ayton then hopefully they at least made one more serious run at a title.
But they kinda have to max him though unless they plan on trading him this year. I agree that Ayton's not a max player, but I find it almost impossible to believe that someone will not offer him a max when he hits restricted free agency (and they can also insert poison pills into that contract which Brooklyn (?) used to do).
Yeah I agree that they kinda have to, which is one of the reasons I really hate the idea of drafting a traditional big man top 5 in the draft. Putting yourself in a very difficult situation by design, which is one of the reasons I would personally not have picked Wiseman.
I am not envious of Utah for the max that Gobert got either. And my hottest take is that I don't even love it for Jokic, it's basically only Embiid who I'd feel comfortable with giving that money to and even then the injury risk is worrisome.
LOL, no max for Jokic is a flaming hot take.
Jokic is one of the greatest offensive players of all time lol. If he's not worthy of a max, there's like 10 players in history who are.
And Gobert basically guarantees a top 5 defense to his teams. Plus, his playoff on-off splits are still amazing and he has traditionally still been a really impactful defender in the playoffs.
Top level Cs are still worth the money (the guys you mentioned + AD, KAT, Bam etc), it's the mid-tier ones who usually aren't. Agree that when all things are held equal, Cs should be drafted last due to:
- they restrict options (1 position players)
- the difference between a good outcome (say 60th percentile outcome) for a really good prospect and an average C isn't really that big. For example, if Cade or Jalen Green reach their 60th percentile outcome, they are still really valuable players. If Mobley does, 80-90% of his production can be matched by guys who take the minimum/TPMLE.
As for Wiseman, if he ever gets to a situation where this is even a discussion, then that's a great situation to be in.
Jokic is a maybe from me, but Gobert is a no.
Don't consider a guy like AD to be a "traditional center". I have no problem with paying him max money.