43 Comments
Sep 8, 2021Liked by Daniel Hardee

LMAO DH. This is hilarious! What a roasting.

Duby you're a good sport.

Favorite moment - Duby: 'We may as well shut the blog down', said in defeated tone. Followed by DH giggling as if he just reeled in a Marlin.

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The league has long since caught up with GSW on defense by employing more switching across all positions, generally speaking. Thus, you can say that a team is only as good as it's personnel on that side of the ball. However, does the Warriors "offensive system" still give them a competitive advantage? Offensively, the league has not emulated GSW. If anything, they ripped a page out of the Morey/Harden Rockets playbook. P&Rs or dribble penetration with 3-4 other guys standing like statues on the 3 point line checking their cell phones.

I still believe that the Warrior's "player-motion" offense creates a competitive advantage above and beyond the mere talent level of personnel. For example, a guy like JTA looks freakin' great in our system. Would he look as good on another team in more traditional (current) offensive schemes? I don't think so.

Pound for pound, a team like Brooklyn has more talent. But I still believe that the Warriors "System" can help bridge that talent gap. Is it enough on it's own? Probably not. There probably has to be a combination of Player Improvement + the System to come level with a team like Brooklyn. In the end, I don't think we have to match the powerhouse teams pound for pound on talent. We just need to get close and let our system make up the difference.

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This thread triggered me to go down a rabbit hole. I ended up digging through Play Type stats on nba.com and tried to essentially "profile" some teams to understand which plays are their most effective and which ones they run more often.

I figured I'd share in case it's interesting for anyone.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQYskrE4apXBneMdc6_IDnqqOPLaB-YO0Qb5Pn_TliXFwVxvL9CeTqusx2lteACyN_PU6oTAsXQeGfi/pub#h.z2daa1lfoixv

(Apologies for the TOC, I don't know why it rendered so janky...)

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I'm with you on the idea that the warriors system lends itself to maximising the on court impact and value of all roster players more than other offensive styles. Steph is the key here, as you have written before. Not too many other super stars would run so far and set so many back screens to get a teammate a dunk; they would rather jack up a shot themselves, less physical effort and is probably a decent shot anyhow. As for the play offs, we have seen star players get fatigued from relentless iso over 7 games and start to brick. Good memories for us as warriors fans! So, yeah I think the warriors system helps in this respect.

But I do wonder how the offensive style will change as Steph gets older and is less able to run the same miles, or more likely, the medical staff dont want him to run as far. I wonder if at that point we lean towards the PNR systems to maximise individual talents like JW and JK in these situations?

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Runners peak later in life. It won’t be the running, but the speed, quickness, healing from the little things, that slow down.

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Sep 5, 2021Liked by punk basketball

And there are very significant advantages of running a heliocentric PNR system around your star. Those systems that you mock (the Harden Rockets, the Luka Mavs, all LeBron teams, the Clippers, Nets etc) have posted all-time historical offensive seasons playing that way.

It's the NBA - there's no one "best" way to play. You play the way the system that best suits your personnel and stars. The Strength In Numbers thing is a marketing mantra, not an actual basketball axiom.

Of course, those teams can be better if they adopt some of our stuff. For example, if Harden moved off ball, he would be even more incredible. Similarly, if Steph started playing more as an on-ball creator in a spread PNR system, he (and his team's offense) would be incredible as he's almost always near the top of PNR ball-handler efficiency.

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There’s way more variety of offense out there than you are giving credit for.

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Yes, we've seen a lot of teams take liberally from our own playbook. This video is a good example of how the Heat did it when they reached the finals.- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5wWHZ_KrWY.

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Sep 5, 2021Liked by punk basketball

If Duby was my professor in class, I'd only get an A if I got all the answers correct, did the extra credit, and solved all the problems in classes I haven't taken yet. 😜

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Sep 4, 2021Liked by punk basketball

Great conversation! Daniel was hilarious, Patrick nailed the reasoning behind an “A”, and Duby was a good sport.

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Total tangent here but...

Can we ask substack (lol) to allow us to view all comments without reloading the freaking page? I mean, I just got started on that 🔥 intro by Daniel and wanted to view comments... and BLAM no more Daniel 😟

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author

I doubt they will ever change that. There'a actually a dedicated "podcast" type of post, but we've never used it. And I wouldn't be surprised if it had the same issue... Substack is a bit blind to everything but Ye Olde Email Newsletter model.

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Sep 4, 2021Liked by punk basketball

Haha yea... that's why I lol'd. I guess if it's working for them (ignoring users' desire for 2010s technology), fair enough.

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Geez, I did not understand your question, then I clicked load comments while listening and it went silent…. That is annoying.

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Seconded

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Poor Duby got hammered on this one lol.

But I do agree with the general point. The Warriors are in a funny position - they're definitely not no-hopers with regards to winning a title, but the amount of swing factors that have to go right for them to win it are significantly lower than the true Tier 1 Contenders (Bucks, Nets, Lakers and maybe the Clippers if they are healthy).

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Sep 4, 2021Liked by punk basketball

Isn’t that … what we want? :-)

Seriously, if by “lower” you mean “higher,” I disagree, at least as it relates to the Lakers and Clips, who are both swimming in swing factors.

As for the Bucks and Nets … yeah, I’d put them both above the Ws in terms of their baseline outlook. But I would have said the same about 6 or 7 teams going into 2014-15.

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> Isn’t that … what we want? :-)

Exactly. IMO, we're in a great position... health is always going to be an issue for every team so that's always going to be a roll of the dice. Maybe we're not overwhelming favorites like '16-19 but that wasn't normal to begin with...

Basically what Patrick was saying around 13:30...

It seems like there's an opinion that if we're not overwhelming favorites to win, then we're not doing it right. And in my mind, that's really under-appreciating what we had between 2015-19, when all the stars aligned just right.

Every single champion since the early 90s (when I started watching) has had a significant list of swing factors with the exception of maybe the MJ Bulls, our 16-19 run, and (I'll begrudgingly add) the 2000-01 Lakers.

Every other champ, including the Spurs and the Heat, was not at that level. And the Spurs and Heat accounted for 8 out of 16 championships during a 16-year span.

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Yeah, I meant higher. Sorry for the brainfade.

I understand the doubts about the Clips (health) or the Lakers (their best lineup in the playoffs has to be with Westbrook on the bench, right?), but I'd still put them far ahead of the Warriors.

And, yeah maybe that would've been the case in 14-15. But we didn't know that Steph would be one of the top 10 players of all-time back then and that Draymond would be an all-time great defender in his own right. I think the level of expectations for the team have to rise if you have one of those legendary guys (which we definitely do). We're not the cool story, scrappy underdog anymore. I think we should be a team that expects to reasonably contend for the title as long as we have peak Steph and close to peak Dray.

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We have 1 elite player, but a payroll that assumes 4. So, it's unlikely that W's can compete for the title 1) until the youngsters develop, 2) the W's hit a home run with someone like OPJ, or 3) there's a rash of injuries to elite players across the NBA as happened last year.

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Our payroll may well assume 4, but you don't usually need 4 to win a title. 2 top-end superstars (see Lakers 2020) or 1 top-end superstar and 2 lower tier all-stars (see Bucks 2021, Raptors 2019, Warriors 2015, Cavs 2016) are usually enough to get it all done. We were the exception from 2017-19. At this moment in time, only the Nets come close to that level of talent (and their talent is greatly titled towards the offensive side of things whereas we were much more balanced).

Warriors already have their top-end superstar, and they have 1 lower end all-star (Draymond - defensive all-stars are still stars, and Draymond isn't exactly Andre Roberson on offense. We just have to find lineups where he's the fifth best offensive player on the floor rather than the 2nd/3rd best). So they've got a very solid foundation to contend. After that, they've got Klay who used to be a lower tier all-star but who knows what he is due to injury. Then they've got a couple of young guys who may become a lower tier all-star (Poole has a pretty decent chance to get there in a couple of years if he continues his trajectory). More importantly, they have all the ammunition required (young lottery picks, most of their future first-rounders) and a salary ballast in Wiggins whose contract is getting better by the day (he'll be an expiring next year at which point that contract is only a mildly negative asset). So they've got everything they need to find the 1 piece they need to vault themselves into reasonable contention (and hey, if Klay is Klay and Poole keeps improving then that may not be required anyhow). If they get one more star-level player (could be a lower end star like Beal or Siakam or whoever else becomes disgruntled next), then they're right back as contenders behind only the Nets and along with the Bucks, Clippers and the Lakers.

Our path to contention isn't unlikely, we just need to make the right moves. Now, I doubt this FO is capable of making those moves especially with Lacob taking on more and more duties, but it is possible.

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I don't think Dray is that close to his peak. He's still good and can dominate a game in spurts, but have you seen his old highlights recently? It's like a different guy, especially on offense...

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Just read that Wiggins isn't vaccinated and doesn't plan to get the vaccine unless he's forced to. Not sure how that will work with the requirements for the Chase Center, unless that's what he was referring to. Otherwise he isn't playing.

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This is disappointing re Wiggs, but I don’t think it will be too long til COVID vax is worked into the conditions of the contract. No vax = void contract, as I assume is the case with a lot of existing vaccines? Still technically a choice, but will make it an untenable for NBA players not to get one.

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Yeah, I saw that and my feelings for Wiggins dropped - as they did for Bazemore when he ignorantly said he didn't need it because of his strong immune system. Come on, people. You have enough time to not be ignorant about this. Getting the vaccine is not JUST FOR YOU. It reduces the probability of you spreading COVID, to people you love or people you hate. It may not kill you but it may kill your friends. It gets us closer to herd immunity, which reduces our population risk to mutated variants.

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Did you read something that came out recently? Wiggins made remarks to that effect in March, but I haven't seen anything of late.

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No new information there. Those are same comments Wiggins made back in March.

So as far as we know:

- In March, Wiggins said, “I don’t really see myself getting it anytime soon, unless I’m forced to, somehow. Other than that, I’m good.”

- He hasn't commented publicly on the topic in 6 months or so.

- He played for Team Canada, which might or might not have had a vaccination requirement.

He might or might not be vaccinated.

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Sep 4, 2021Liked by punk basketball

They aren't being forced, it's a condition of employment just as not punching fans is a condition of employment. Wiggins rights stop at the end of somebody else's nose.

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Sep 4, 2021Liked by punk basketball

Sabrinasez - nope. You live in a society. It's not just "your body." It's the body of everyone you come in contact with. It's the hospital bed you are more likely to take from someone who needs it for other disease or accidents. My take - your body, your choice - but go quarantine yourself, don't get paid for games you miss, you pay the additional disability and medical premiums your employer gets hit with if you get sick. Don't drive drunk. Wear a seat belt. Wear a motorcycle helmet. Get vaccinated.

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Sure but then when that person falls sick with Covid, don't take up bed in hospital. If that person does, pay a hefty fine.

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I would agree if his actions only affected himself. In this case, his actions directly pose a significant threat to the people around him and society at large.

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Two wrongs don’t make a right

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Sabrinasez, how does that make sense? In the case of the Texas anti-abortion law, the State is saying "your body, MY choice" where you seem to say in the case of vaccines "your body, YOUR choice." Are you trying to consistently argue for the "your body, your choice" position despite the HUGE differences between a private decision in the case of abortion versus a decision that very much affects others in the case of COVID? The "medical minds" around Wiggins are not infectious disease experts, they are probably orthopaedists or sports medicine people.

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OK. I totally disagree - don't think they are equivalent at all. The difference is that in the case of abortion, a religious minority is asserting their values are pre-eminent because they happen to wield the levers of political power. In the case of COVID, the state is making a public health claim based on a scientific understanding of the nature of infectious disease.

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I think the big difference between those 2 issues is that in one scenario you're harming someone else (Covid) while in the other you're making a personal decision with limited ramifications on the health of others (abortion).

But I do understand where you're coming from and I can sympathize with that point of view.

As for reasons not to get vaccinated, unless there is a medical exemption for it, I don't particularly care for his reasons to not get vaccinated.

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I agree with everybody's comments and it highlights the complexity of this problem.

|From a scientific and purely objective point of view, every single person should be getting the vaccine. But, we live in a society -- with very big flaws -- and there are very deep issues that need to be fixed. There's deep rooted mistrust and skepticism in the medical system (and science in general) and that's what the real problem is.

Just saying "science is right, and for the benefit of everyone you must do this", while ideal, doesn't really work in a free society. If it did, we'd all be rid of ICE vehicles (climate change), stop consuming sugar (negative impact on healthcare), and freely use MSG (completely safe, found naturally in common foods, but is associated with borderline racist stereotyping).

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Lol, this page is infamous for blatantly making stuff up sometimes. Look back further into their earlier posts and it's just straight up making ridiculous stuff out of thin air.

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You all gotta keep this in that comment thread below. I'll leave it up for a bit so all involved can see it, but will delete shortly since there's already a parent comment below

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