I suppose Dante.. more shooting, especially from the front court, sounds great, but at the same time Dante might have a chance at not getting played off the court defensively, even against five-out offense. And ultimately, in the medium-to-long term, it’ll be easier to add shooting than quality defense.
You call this one, JOE. Methinks you've taken bigger risks and won. I say RUN IT BACK.
Add a bonafide BIG to frontline of DRAY/LOONS/TJD, PICK UP DUNKIN LIL MAC Energizer to BACK UP STEPH/PODZ, and we beat ANYBODY...
Pennies on the dollar for a plebe BIG BODY and lil Mac...talk to KLAY...we are lightyears still...even at close to Disney numbers...
Never too late....
MAXIMIZING THE MAX-GRAVITY BROTHERS-MUCH ADO ABOUT DEJA VU....
KLAY is one of the greatest shooters, all-time. There isn't a shot he does not think he can make; great shooters always do. He perennially, even now, leads the league in catch-and-shoot ops and is a year removed from leading it in 3pters made, after-injury. He was always better with catch-and-shoot makes, than off-the-dribble, the last, a STEPH specialty. He relies on his teammates heavily to set him up for his killer shot, particularly STEPH AND DRAY...THE HOF TRIO MAX GRAVITY. He set the most-points-in-a-quarter all-time record, DRIBBLING THE BALL 5 TIMES, AS HIS TEAMMATES KEPT FEEDING HIM AND PUT HIM IN A POSITION TO UTILIZE HIS STRENGTH. THOUGH HIS DEFENSIVE MOBILITY MAY HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY INJURY, HIS SHOOTING SKILLS WERE NOT.
A career slow STARTER, KLAY WAS ON FIRE USUALLY POST-ALL STAR BREAKS. This last season, DUE TO INJURIES/DRAY-COG SUSPENSION/EXPERIMENTATION/NEW PERSONNEL, he did not get the ball in the manner he was best utilized in the past DUE TO ROTATION/PERSONNEL CHANGES. When PAUL was in the lineup with him, with STEPH OFF-BALL, PAUL's game got around to working with STEPH, but KLAY WAS LOST TO HIM. WITH NO DRAY, ALSO, KLAY got frustrated and tried to create his shot off-the-dribble and often rushed it/forced it. Interestingly, KERR'S LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN HIM/MOTIVATIONAL(?) MOVE TO BENCH 2d half of season, happened at a time KLAY normally peaks in the season, and, the bench players had enough experience to set him up better than the starting lineup was doing due to all the new moving parts KERR was trying-too long-to identify/quantify. As soon as DRAY returned and KLAY came back playing ON THE FLOOR with the maximum-gravity HOF TRIO, AS KLAY WAS ALSO PEAKING, the team finished the season strong.
IF KLAY HAS LOST A STEP, HIS SHOOTING IS NOT AFFECTED, THOUGH HIS PSYCHE, UNDERSTANDABLY, WAS. MAXIMIZING KLAY'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TEAM SHOULD ALWAYS ENTAIL MAXIMIZING PLAYING THE HOF TRIO ON THE FLOOR TOGETHER, and the new players learning to utilize his shooting strengths. I should also say, KLAY's DEFENSE toward the end of the season and PLAYMAKING ATTEST TO A VASTLY-IMPROVED GAME once KERR UTILIZED HIM PROPERLY. HOPEFULLY, KLAY will not have to adjust to PAUL'S half court game ever again, as DUBS BALL IS DEFINED BY TRANSITION/PACE AND HIS LEAKING OUT FOR SET UP CATCH AND SHOOT OPS. SPLASH!
All the FO homies are ganging up on me for defending KLAY....Es tu, Sleepy? AS I SAID
IF KLAY THOMPSON GOES, I AM OUT OF HERE. I THINK JERRY WEST WAS A SAGE. IF THIS BECOMES AN FO HOMIE SITE, I AM DONE. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE NO ONE IN HERE IS TAKING KLAY'S SIDE ON THIS RAILROADING.
Lol...KLAY has broken Ray's single-season record twice already in his shortened career, so far, once BEFORE injury and once AFTER injury. Still a STARTER, and is doing that on a team that STEPH is on, who has broken it 9 times. It is worth at least 25/yr today....not to mention he is being offered over 80 mil for 3 yrs at Disneyland....
Interesting comparison. Ray Allen's 2012-13 year vs. Klay's 2023-24 year.
WS/48 -- Ray Allen .126, Klay .075, League Average .100
TS% -- Ray Allen .599, Klay .576
OWS -- Ray Allen 3.4. Klay 1.8
DWS -- Ray Allen 1.9, Klay 1.7
The Dubs may be asking more of Klay than the Heat asked of Ray, but it does not seem the Dubs are getting it. NOTE: Ray Allen was 37 years old that year, about 3 years older than Klay is right now.
Good point! And Ray Allen's salary was 5.5% of the 2012-13 salary cap. Adjusted for the higher salary cap now, that means that to get Ray Allen-level value the Dubs should pay Klay $7,755,000 (assuming 5.5% of a $141M salary cap).
IF KLAY THOMPSON GOES, I AM OUT OF HERE. I THINK JERRY WEST WAS A SAGE. IF THIS BECOMES AN FO HOMIE SITE, I AM DONE. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE NO ONE IN HERE IS TAKING KLAY'S SIDE ON THIS RAILROADING.
So much uncertainty right now about all free agency, draft possibilities and future roster decisions, etc. I'm not sure there is any "railroading".
Lots of fan speculations, most with very little real knowledge ... people like to play GM.
I do think that the Warriors would be better off with Klay Thompson. I thought he handled last season's ups and downs pretty well. It is not easy getting older, especially for an elite athlete in the public eye. His last game left an impression on many who may forget the whole of the season and career.
I'll let things play out over time.
As much as I woukd like to see the Warriors keep all of their home drafted talents, I try not to get too excited by all the rumors and ideas that are being floated about. Off season team and roster workings and negotiations are being handled by those who should know best. I'd like to have confidence that they can make decisions to help the Ws long term.
I hear you, but we did the same with last impressions on HB, LOST HIM and his 1-5 DEFENSE/INSIDE-OUTSIDE OFFENSE, WENT AFTER KD. BROKE UP A 'SHIP TEAM, AND GOT TO THE FINALS 2 FINALS less than we would have if we had squeezed out a few million to pay HB, during PRIME STEPH/KLAY/DRAY YEARS/DYNASTIC YEARS. The NBA was nowhere near; we were lightyears ahead.
I have not been closely following all the recent blank-blank about KT.
Much of what I read is so much speculative and guessing at his feelings and motivations that I can't believe it, so don't pay attention.
I really think that GSW and KT can, and will, be able to come up with something that is mutually beneficial. The idea of keeping the team together should have a strong enough weight. It seems like there are many positives for all.
No, you are a lot smarter than some of the sages in here...Incidentally, with KD out injured against TORONTO, WE WOULD HAVE WON ANYWAY AS KLAY WAS BUSTING HIS ARSE WITH 31 points in 32 minutes on a STEPH OFF NIGHT, WHEN HE WENT DOWN. KD left, KLAY was out 2 yrs, and, the DYNASTY hit bottom to REPEAT 'SHIP THE YEAR KLAY CAME BACK...METHINKS, WITH TWO MORE BENCH PIECES, THIS TEAM HAS AT LEAST ONE MORE FINALS RUN IN THEM...JOE's MONEY AND DECISION...
I totally appreciate the passion, Dino, but … players do age out, right? What if Klay were, say, 37 and demanding $40M (which would basically cripple them from making any moves to improve the roster). Do you think the Warriors should draw any kind of line in the sand, or just give him a blank check?
If you think there should be a line, all anyone is disagreeing about is where exactly that line should be.
I think it's more complicated than money for Klay. His ego is definitely bruised after last season. And he might have to show up to camp having to earn his starting spot.
> You are pipe-smoking. He is a starter as MAX GRAVITY and STEPH does not work without him.
This is why Klay pretty much has to go. With him on the roster Steve Kerr is going to try to live in the past. But my sense of the situation is that even with Klay and Steph from 2017, the Dubs are not a contender. The league has caught up to the Dubs and now they put 3 or 4 sharpshooters on the court. 2017 Steph and Klay, with this supporting cast would max-out at the conference finals. But with Klay's and Steph's and Dray's and Wigs contracts, this is the only supporting cast they can afford. So, because 2017 Steph/Klay isn't coming back, its either struggle to make the play-in, or lose the least necessary gigantic contract to have some chance to bring in the players needed to 1)make a last 1-2 year run for Steph while 2)retaining young good players to re-load when Steph retires.
This would be a much harder call if Klay was acting with some maturity. He is making it easier to say "Good-bye, and good luck."
Dino, what do you think is a fair contract offer for Klay?
Just whatever any other team offers him?
Our financial situation is vastly different than an up-and-coming team like Orlando. It's hard to say that we should match any offer. There are consequences to that (probably significant ones).
It may be in there, but I don't really find it understandable.
Unless all you're basically saying is 'pay whatever it takes to keep him'. That's not really an answer to what I'm asking.
edit: Ah ... I was looking at your long post ... so you're saying $25 mil? I'd say that's high, but it's at least a reasonable number to be talking about.
As we go down the Klay Thomson social media scrubbing-this adding-that rabbit-hole, there is other better sports news. For example, the USA cricket team is into the next round of the ICC t20 World Cup and also qualify
for the next World Cup due to their standings here.
They will play South Africa in the super eights on the 19th in Antigua at the Sir Viv Richard’s stadium.
Best part for me - I will be seeing the game in person -yaaa!
They may be getting ready to break up the best backcourt duo in NBA history, and you want to talk cricket in a DUB fan site....right, GO USA. Now, are you happy....
Methinks it is time for someone to tell us what is going on in the FO WITH KLAY....seems from all that has been written. the deal was off long time ago, and we are retooling already....Hard to believe he is being offered 80+ million from the Magic for 3 years, and not a word in here about it....
Is the Magic offer confirmed? I haven't kept up with the NBA much since the Dubs missed the playoffs.
I did hear that Klay had quit following GSW on Instagram and removed most of his Warrior posts. I interpreted that as petulance and maybe more. Who really knows?
But at this point, while I love Klay and would like him to stay in an instant offense, reserve role, I'm also okay for him to take $80 million elsewhere. It's not like he needs the money, but I'm never going to begrudge a guy getting one last big payday. I'd miss him, and I think the Golden State would too -- but not enough to make it worth signing him for that kind of money. He gives his all, but he can't defend starting guards anymore, so he ends up making us smaller in the front court. His offense can still be a thing of beauty, but it is unreliable, especially in the big moments (possibly teams focusing on him a bit more?).
I'll always be grateful for what he brought to this franchise, but if he needs the big dollars, I think the Dubs should honor him in every way possible while allowing him to head to greener pastures.
If Klay got an $80 mil offer from Orlando and leaves, my response is 'go with God'. Good for him, good for us.
Through no fault of his own, his injuries and age, and teams investing in good wings, have turned him from an extraordinary wing to one who is maybe around league average (factoring in his defensive limitations).
The coach was screwing up KLAY's utilization with his nebulous retooling experimentation...don't get me started, Sleepy, as you are still just as comfortable and well-received at the old site we all left as it had become a FO homie heaven....
Klay's in Japan at the moment but someone who has access to his IG followed Paulo Banchero in recent days. Someone is fucking around and I'm not sure it's Klay.
Well. they practically left him no other option the way he was treated....even massaging the fans to prep them for the move...he is worth what the market will pay, and he may get up to 30 million per year before this is done....who would say he is not worth that kind of money...he is one of the 2 greatest shooters. all time...we have always sucked with partings....By the way, your assessment of KLAY's game and skill sets at this point in time is way off the mark...frankly, quit trying to mislead the fan base. You may want to read my extensive comment on KLAY below, first.
Not gonna argue about his skills, but it is a team game. Paraphrasing Al Capone in "The Untouchables," there's a time to play as a team, and a time for individual achievement. You know what Al did right after saying that to the weasel who wasn't playing like a good teammate.
More fundamentally, I just don't think the mantra of "The player is worth what the market will pay" works for the NBA. We all know that a player can be overpaid or underpaid.
I think the NBA is a very small labor market. It's not like there are 330 million people trying to buy a product. Only 30 teams are trying to hire players. It is very easy for a bad franchise (like Washington or Detroit, or, historically, Sacramento, Minnesota, and the Knicks) to vastly overpay for a player, or to drive the market up on a player so another team has to overpay to get them.
Also, for what are teams paying? On court production, sure. But Orlando probably wants Klay to come in, mesh with the team they are building, and show the young players how to win. I believe the Magic are going to be vastly disappointed. Klay could change, he could tap heretofore unseen skills, or he could develop new ones. But his 11 years in the league suggest that is unlikely. He has not been a leader on his own, he is designated a leader through his generational connection to Steph. This is not like Dray who, like him or not (I don't), you can't deny, he is a leader on his own two feet.
And, aside from a one-off connection to TJD, Klay has not been a "Let me take you under my wing and help you be better, and bask in your reflected glory." To bask in someone's reflected glory you have to see them as taking over for you. He could have done that with Moody, or with Podz, but it does not seem that he did. What evidence is there he's going to have any other attitude toward his new teammates? I hope for his sake he doesn't treat them as impediments to him being the Man. But, if some team is going to have that problem, I'd rather it not be the Dubs.
Meh, if you followed him his playmaking vastly improved when he returned to the starting lineup, particularly setting up TJD. Was kicking butt also on DEFENSE and REBOUNDING. All the KERR experimentation had already done its damage; it was too late in an unstable/disruptive season,
Question for people voting Dante over Post: Does how they pair up with Draymond and TJD influence your thinking or is it just “best player available or bust”?
I like him a lot, but Dante seems like an overlap with TJD.
I almost always go with best available and did with Dante. It was a bit of a dilemma because Wells' shooting was the obvious 'need' play of the four, to me.
But, for centers, particularly big centers, I value defense over offense (rightly or wrongly). Dante has one key attribute that I look for in a big, which is, is the center quick enough to defend in space. His footwork is really good for a 7' guy.
So, I kind of see him as a defensive-oriented complement to TJD. I don't really consider fit with Draymond that much, since I'm looking past Steph's retirement, rather than the short-term. But, the one thing I did consider is that having a guy like would lessen the need to put Draymond out there against really big centers. Those guys are causing him more trouble now than they used to.
The TL;DR version is that I worried more about roster balance rather than how they would fit on the court together.
Here's my answer: I spent a whole 5 minutes on each prospect and so I am very confident that I can tell which one is the best.
Real answer: a bit of a lt of things. best player available is definitely part of it. Also I feel that Post (despite the perfect name) will not be a super effective player at the NBA level no matter how he develops. OK, none of these likely will, but it feels like I can make up a story where something clicks for Dante mentally and his physical tools make him a solid player. If we really do get lucky like that twice in a row and he's a solid player exactly like TJD, then one of them has trade value. (by the way I feel the same about Wells and would love to see him end up in the Warriors organization somehow, also).
edit: also same reason to draft Curry when you already have Monta.
Non-zero chance Looney is gone, running Dray nearly full-time as a 5 isn’t going to work on his aging body, who knows if we’ll have an opportunity at a good center in free agency. Worst case we have a solid 3rd string center in case of injury.
I mean, that's the worst case with Post, too right? (actual worst case, neither player is an NBA player and a low 2nd round pick turns into nothing, like almost all of them)
You don't think they would bring in another big(ger) man? I love Loon -- as much for his character and leadership as for his on court contributions -- but I think he might be in trouble. Love to be wrong on that.
"I know all of you were probably looking forward to me talking about Klay unfollowing the Warriors and deleting some IG posts or something. I had no idea that happened," Golden State forward Draymond Green said on the latest episode of his podcast. "I think it's f---ing hilarious.
"I think that's comical. I know you all want somebody's feelings to be hurt or something. It ain't that. Ain't never going to be that. That's hilarious."
I quit listening to his podcast after the Punch. Haven't missed it.
My fandom with Dray has become mostly transactional. I root for him to do well so the Ws can do well, but I don't get too emotionally involved. Hard to do that with a guy who blows up the team every so often. He's great when he's great, but when he's gone, a part of me will feel a little relieved.
I understand the sentiment, but if you haven’t seen it, the Podcast with Looney is worth a listening. I may be biased, but I could listen to Looney talk all day. He seems so genuinely likable and humble while being super smart.
Oh, no doubt on Loon. Love that guy. I just have little interest these days in hearing Dray waffle on about anything (unless it’s a really nerdy hoops x and o’s type convo with a guy like Zach Lowe or JJ Redick).
"Stacked and jacked though his scoring numbers may be, pure statistical accumulation is not, in the final analysis, what makes this Ljubljana-made hero of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex so entertaining. Dončić is the rare basketballer whose hands – as supple and dexterous as they unquestionably are – form the least interesting part of his anatomy. Luka is all noggin, knees, ass, and lip, so much lip – a chunk of pure Slovenian beef, joints and glutes clearing his path through the forest of the opposition’s defense. Many feel Dončić should have been crowned this season’s MVP. Whether he is the best player in the NBA right now is a matter for social media debate, but there’s little doubt he’s basketball’s most effective derriere. I can’t vouch for this statistic’s methodological rigor but at least half his points seemingly come via the backside, that characteristic Dončić butt thrust in the paint that offers the separation needed to execute all those ta-da fadeaways, slipknot passes, and cheeky hooks. Where go this man’s buttocks, so go the Mavericks."
I was shocked the first time I saw NBA players outside the court. I thought I would be amazed at their height, but it was their width that got me. Antoine Walker and Chauncey Billups were walking towards me in a Vegas casino and I could not believe what I was seeing. It looked like two super-tall refrigerators with giant asses shambling towards me.
[Scotto] Toronto is expected to exercise Bruce Brown’s $23 million team option and use him as a trade chip entering the offseason, league sources told HoopsHype.
I can see it, though. As you say, they /should/ have won 2016.
Their chances were good in 2023 if Poole had been anything like 2022 Poole. Can't know if that would have happened -- JP seemed to be becoming a different guy after the big contract, and maybe that would have happened anyway -- but the Punch scrambles everything no matter how you slice it.
2024, Dray missed a lot of the year. But if JP had stayed and matured (a big IF), 2024 looks pretty promising with him in place of a game but aging CP. And who knows? Wiggins might have been better in both of those years with his best bud still on the team and thriving.
I had a very nice conversation with Perks about all kinds of cap, free agency and offseason issues. The problem(?) is that it's 48 minutes on video, edited down. I'm thinking I have to cut this up into pieces, right? No one is going to watch a 48 min epic...
Jenny Nicholson’s account of Disney’s Star Wars hotel is over 4 hours long and has been viewed 8 million times in 2 weeks. It’s incredibly compelling and both NY Times and Rolling Stone have interviewed her about it.
My thought: might depend on your target audience. I'm with the others here, I'd be happy to watch 48 min straight. But, for more the casual audience, for example if you have YouTube subscribers that don't spend all day following off-season tea leaves, a multi part-er might get some viewers that would be scared off by 48 min. If you aren't worried about max numbers of viewers, then you can save your self some time editing into pieces.
Look what I do with my time is my business. If I want to watch a 48 minute video listening to you guys yak about basketball minutiae than, Darvin Hammit, I am gonna watch a 48 minute video! If you cut it down to 24 minutes than I will watch it twice Mr. Apricot!!
All this klay talk reminds me of emotions I had going through a breakup. klay seems like he's in the you can't do better than me phase.
Now... This breakup could be with the warriors but it also might be with former peak klay. Definitely a bit of both.
Good thing, time does it's thing and allows one to see things clearly eventually. Still best friends with the person I broke up with; time allowed me to see the issues we had were simply cause we were not right for each other long term. Hopefully if the analogy holds up klay will make ammends with the dubs in the future.
OT: Another video! Here’s highlights of our 3 days in Detroit, which far exceeded our expectations. I’d never been there and Jenny had been there many years earlier, when it was more or less a war zone. It’s been beautifully revitalized and we had a great time checking it out: https://youtu.be/I2TIGi7yt7g?si=nMqNbN7tqcjX_ajj (6 minutes)
New thread with the full discussion with Perks: https://dubnationhq.com/p/explain-warriors-decisions-on-klay
Yes, I followed the will of the commenters and posted the whole shebang. Good luck
I suppose Dante.. more shooting, especially from the front court, sounds great, but at the same time Dante might have a chance at not getting played off the court defensively, even against five-out offense. And ultimately, in the medium-to-long term, it’ll be easier to add shooting than quality defense.
You call this one, JOE. Methinks you've taken bigger risks and won. I say RUN IT BACK.
Add a bonafide BIG to frontline of DRAY/LOONS/TJD, PICK UP DUNKIN LIL MAC Energizer to BACK UP STEPH/PODZ, and we beat ANYBODY...
Pennies on the dollar for a plebe BIG BODY and lil Mac...talk to KLAY...we are lightyears still...even at close to Disney numbers...
Never too late....
MAXIMIZING THE MAX-GRAVITY BROTHERS-MUCH ADO ABOUT DEJA VU....
KLAY is one of the greatest shooters, all-time. There isn't a shot he does not think he can make; great shooters always do. He perennially, even now, leads the league in catch-and-shoot ops and is a year removed from leading it in 3pters made, after-injury. He was always better with catch-and-shoot makes, than off-the-dribble, the last, a STEPH specialty. He relies on his teammates heavily to set him up for his killer shot, particularly STEPH AND DRAY...THE HOF TRIO MAX GRAVITY. He set the most-points-in-a-quarter all-time record, DRIBBLING THE BALL 5 TIMES, AS HIS TEAMMATES KEPT FEEDING HIM AND PUT HIM IN A POSITION TO UTILIZE HIS STRENGTH. THOUGH HIS DEFENSIVE MOBILITY MAY HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY INJURY, HIS SHOOTING SKILLS WERE NOT.
A career slow STARTER, KLAY WAS ON FIRE USUALLY POST-ALL STAR BREAKS. This last season, DUE TO INJURIES/DRAY-COG SUSPENSION/EXPERIMENTATION/NEW PERSONNEL, he did not get the ball in the manner he was best utilized in the past DUE TO ROTATION/PERSONNEL CHANGES. When PAUL was in the lineup with him, with STEPH OFF-BALL, PAUL's game got around to working with STEPH, but KLAY WAS LOST TO HIM. WITH NO DRAY, ALSO, KLAY got frustrated and tried to create his shot off-the-dribble and often rushed it/forced it. Interestingly, KERR'S LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN HIM/MOTIVATIONAL(?) MOVE TO BENCH 2d half of season, happened at a time KLAY normally peaks in the season, and, the bench players had enough experience to set him up better than the starting lineup was doing due to all the new moving parts KERR was trying-too long-to identify/quantify. As soon as DRAY returned and KLAY came back playing ON THE FLOOR with the maximum-gravity HOF TRIO, AS KLAY WAS ALSO PEAKING, the team finished the season strong.
IF KLAY HAS LOST A STEP, HIS SHOOTING IS NOT AFFECTED, THOUGH HIS PSYCHE, UNDERSTANDABLY, WAS. MAXIMIZING KLAY'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TEAM SHOULD ALWAYS ENTAIL MAXIMIZING PLAYING THE HOF TRIO ON THE FLOOR TOGETHER, and the new players learning to utilize his shooting strengths. I should also say, KLAY's DEFENSE toward the end of the season and PLAYMAKING ATTEST TO A VASTLY-IMPROVED GAME once KERR UTILIZED HIM PROPERLY. HOPEFULLY, KLAY will not have to adjust to PAUL'S half court game ever again, as DUBS BALL IS DEFINED BY TRANSITION/PACE AND HIS LEAKING OUT FOR SET UP CATCH AND SHOOT OPS. SPLASH!
(HOF TRIO=DRAY-COG+SPLASH=MAX GRAVITY BROTHERS)
All the FO homies are ganging up on me for defending KLAY....Es tu, Sleepy? AS I SAID
IF KLAY THOMPSON GOES, I AM OUT OF HERE. I THINK JERRY WEST WAS A SAGE. IF THIS BECOMES AN FO HOMIE SITE, I AM DONE. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE NO ONE IN HERE IS TAKING KLAY'S SIDE ON THIS RAILROADING.
Ray Allen is one of the greatest shooters, all-time, but that doesn't mean I want him on the 2024 Warriors
KLAY IS A BETTER 3PT SHOOTER.
MIAMI rode his achievements and VALUED him by TRUSTING him to take the LAST, GAME-WINNING, SHOT. I feel the same about KLAY. NUFFSAID.
The Heat paid Ray Allen $3.09M that season.
Lol...KLAY has broken Ray's single-season record twice already in his shortened career, so far, once BEFORE injury and once AFTER injury. Still a STARTER, and is doing that on a team that STEPH is on, who has broken it 9 times. It is worth at least 25/yr today....not to mention he is being offered over 80 mil for 3 yrs at Disneyland....
Interesting comparison. Ray Allen's 2012-13 year vs. Klay's 2023-24 year.
WS/48 -- Ray Allen .126, Klay .075, League Average .100
TS% -- Ray Allen .599, Klay .576
OWS -- Ray Allen 3.4. Klay 1.8
DWS -- Ray Allen 1.9, Klay 1.7
The Dubs may be asking more of Klay than the Heat asked of Ray, but it does not seem the Dubs are getting it. NOTE: Ray Allen was 37 years old that year, about 3 years older than Klay is right now.
Give him time....RAY did not have STEPH for a sidekick as a 1st 3pt option....maybe KLAY will do it for us for 20/yr when he is 37....
KLAY 41.3% 3PT/CAREER/11 SEASONS
RAY 40% 3PT/CAREER/20 SEASONS
> The Heat paid Ray Allen $3.09M that season.
Good point! And Ray Allen's salary was 5.5% of the 2012-13 salary cap. Adjusted for the higher salary cap now, that means that to get Ray Allen-level value the Dubs should pay Klay $7,755,000 (assuming 5.5% of a $141M salary cap).
Gee, you are so creative with misinformation....
IF KLAY THOMPSON GOES, I AM OUT OF HERE. I THINK JERRY WEST WAS A SAGE. IF THIS BECOMES AN FO HOMIE SITE, I AM DONE. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE NO ONE IN HERE IS TAKING KLAY'S SIDE ON THIS RAILROADING.
So much uncertainty right now about all free agency, draft possibilities and future roster decisions, etc. I'm not sure there is any "railroading".
Lots of fan speculations, most with very little real knowledge ... people like to play GM.
I do think that the Warriors would be better off with Klay Thompson. I thought he handled last season's ups and downs pretty well. It is not easy getting older, especially for an elite athlete in the public eye. His last game left an impression on many who may forget the whole of the season and career.
I'll let things play out over time.
As much as I woukd like to see the Warriors keep all of their home drafted talents, I try not to get too excited by all the rumors and ideas that are being floated about. Off season team and roster workings and negotiations are being handled by those who should know best. I'd like to have confidence that they can make decisions to help the Ws long term.
I hear you, but we did the same with last impressions on HB, LOST HIM and his 1-5 DEFENSE/INSIDE-OUTSIDE OFFENSE, WENT AFTER KD. BROKE UP A 'SHIP TEAM, AND GOT TO THE FINALS 2 FINALS less than we would have if we had squeezed out a few million to pay HB, during PRIME STEPH/KLAY/DRAY YEARS/DYNASTIC YEARS. The NBA was nowhere near; we were lightyears ahead.
I agree about Harrison Barnes.
I have not been closely following all the recent blank-blank about KT.
Much of what I read is so much speculative and guessing at his feelings and motivations that I can't believe it, so don't pay attention.
I really think that GSW and KT can, and will, be able to come up with something that is mutually beneficial. The idea of keeping the team together should have a strong enough weight. It seems like there are many positives for all.
But maybe I am being too hopeful and naive.
I do not agree about Harrison Barnes.
No, you are a lot smarter than some of the sages in here...Incidentally, with KD out injured against TORONTO, WE WOULD HAVE WON ANYWAY AS KLAY WAS BUSTING HIS ARSE WITH 31 points in 32 minutes on a STEPH OFF NIGHT, WHEN HE WENT DOWN. KD left, KLAY was out 2 yrs, and, the DYNASTY hit bottom to REPEAT 'SHIP THE YEAR KLAY CAME BACK...METHINKS, WITH TWO MORE BENCH PIECES, THIS TEAM HAS AT LEAST ONE MORE FINALS RUN IN THEM...JOE's MONEY AND DECISION...
I totally appreciate the passion, Dino, but … players do age out, right? What if Klay were, say, 37 and demanding $40M (which would basically cripple them from making any moves to improve the roster). Do you think the Warriors should draw any kind of line in the sand, or just give him a blank check?
If you think there should be a line, all anyone is disagreeing about is where exactly that line should be.
Agree. He is not 37, and his number is not 40. 25 may get him to go as long as STEPH does. 20 won't.
I think it's more complicated than money for Klay. His ego is definitely bruised after last season. And he might have to show up to camp having to earn his starting spot.
You are pipe-smoking. He is a starter as MAX GRAVITY and STEPH does not work without him.
> You are pipe-smoking. He is a starter as MAX GRAVITY and STEPH does not work without him.
This is why Klay pretty much has to go. With him on the roster Steve Kerr is going to try to live in the past. But my sense of the situation is that even with Klay and Steph from 2017, the Dubs are not a contender. The league has caught up to the Dubs and now they put 3 or 4 sharpshooters on the court. 2017 Steph and Klay, with this supporting cast would max-out at the conference finals. But with Klay's and Steph's and Dray's and Wigs contracts, this is the only supporting cast they can afford. So, because 2017 Steph/Klay isn't coming back, its either struggle to make the play-in, or lose the least necessary gigantic contract to have some chance to bring in the players needed to 1)make a last 1-2 year run for Steph while 2)retaining young good players to re-load when Steph retires.
This would be a much harder call if Klay was acting with some maturity. He is making it easier to say "Good-bye, and good luck."
I'm definitely not the one who's "pipe-smoking" right now.
Dino, what do you think is a fair contract offer for Klay?
Just whatever any other team offers him?
Our financial situation is vastly different than an up-and-coming team like Orlando. It's hard to say that we should match any offer. There are consequences to that (probably significant ones).
I have already answered the question....above, and, months ago.
It may be in there, but I don't really find it understandable.
Unless all you're basically saying is 'pay whatever it takes to keep him'. That's not really an answer to what I'm asking.
edit: Ah ... I was looking at your long post ... so you're saying $25 mil? I'd say that's high, but it's at least a reasonable number to be talking about.
As we go down the Klay Thomson social media scrubbing-this adding-that rabbit-hole, there is other better sports news. For example, the USA cricket team is into the next round of the ICC t20 World Cup and also qualify
for the next World Cup due to their standings here.
They will play South Africa in the super eights on the 19th in Antigua at the Sir Viv Richard’s stadium.
Best part for me - I will be seeing the game in person -yaaa!
Ps I met a local Antiguan wearing a warriors tee!
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2024-1411166/united-states-of-america-vs-ireland-30th-match-group-a-1415730/live-cricket-scorehttps://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2024-1411166/united-states-of-america-vs-ireland-30th-match-group-a-1415730/live-cricket-score
They may be getting ready to break up the best backcourt duo in NBA history, and you want to talk cricket in a DUB fan site....right, GO USA. Now, are you happy....
Methinks it is time for someone to tell us what is going on in the FO WITH KLAY....seems from all that has been written. the deal was off long time ago, and we are retooling already....Hard to believe he is being offered 80+ million from the Magic for 3 years, and not a word in here about it....
Is the Magic offer confirmed? I haven't kept up with the NBA much since the Dubs missed the playoffs.
I did hear that Klay had quit following GSW on Instagram and removed most of his Warrior posts. I interpreted that as petulance and maybe more. Who really knows?
But at this point, while I love Klay and would like him to stay in an instant offense, reserve role, I'm also okay for him to take $80 million elsewhere. It's not like he needs the money, but I'm never going to begrudge a guy getting one last big payday. I'd miss him, and I think the Golden State would too -- but not enough to make it worth signing him for that kind of money. He gives his all, but he can't defend starting guards anymore, so he ends up making us smaller in the front court. His offense can still be a thing of beauty, but it is unreliable, especially in the big moments (possibly teams focusing on him a bit more?).
I'll always be grateful for what he brought to this franchise, but if he needs the big dollars, I think the Dubs should honor him in every way possible while allowing him to head to greener pastures.
Exactly.
If Klay got an $80 mil offer from Orlando and leaves, my response is 'go with God'. Good for him, good for us.
Through no fault of his own, his injuries and age, and teams investing in good wings, have turned him from an extraordinary wing to one who is maybe around league average (factoring in his defensive limitations).
We can't afford to pay $80 million for that.
Bit of a small sample, but here are Klay’s last three elimination games:
2023 G7 at SAC: 4-19, 2-10 from 3
2023 G6 at LA: 3-19, 2-12 from 3
2024 Play-in at SAC: 0-10, 0-6 from 3
Total: **7-48 FG, 4-28 from 3.** With his team’s whole season on the line.
And as you allude to, he’s not adding above-average defense, passing, finishing, foul-drawing, or rebounding.
Will always cherish the memories, but if at age 35 Klay wants to leave Steph and ply his wares elsewhere for a bigger payday … more power to him.
The coach was screwing up KLAY's utilization with his nebulous retooling experimentation...don't get me started, Sleepy, as you are still just as comfortable and well-received at the old site we all left as it had become a FO homie heaven....
>Will always treasure the memories, but if at age 35 Klay wants to leave Steph and ply his wares elsewhere for a bigger payday … more power to him.
Agreed.
Klay's in Japan at the moment but someone who has access to his IG followed Paulo Banchero in recent days. Someone is fucking around and I'm not sure it's Klay.
Well. they practically left him no other option the way he was treated....even massaging the fans to prep them for the move...he is worth what the market will pay, and he may get up to 30 million per year before this is done....who would say he is not worth that kind of money...he is one of the 2 greatest shooters. all time...we have always sucked with partings....By the way, your assessment of KLAY's game and skill sets at this point in time is way off the mark...frankly, quit trying to mislead the fan base. You may want to read my extensive comment on KLAY below, first.
Not gonna argue about his skills, but it is a team game. Paraphrasing Al Capone in "The Untouchables," there's a time to play as a team, and a time for individual achievement. You know what Al did right after saying that to the weasel who wasn't playing like a good teammate.
More fundamentally, I just don't think the mantra of "The player is worth what the market will pay" works for the NBA. We all know that a player can be overpaid or underpaid.
I think the NBA is a very small labor market. It's not like there are 330 million people trying to buy a product. Only 30 teams are trying to hire players. It is very easy for a bad franchise (like Washington or Detroit, or, historically, Sacramento, Minnesota, and the Knicks) to vastly overpay for a player, or to drive the market up on a player so another team has to overpay to get them.
Also, for what are teams paying? On court production, sure. But Orlando probably wants Klay to come in, mesh with the team they are building, and show the young players how to win. I believe the Magic are going to be vastly disappointed. Klay could change, he could tap heretofore unseen skills, or he could develop new ones. But his 11 years in the league suggest that is unlikely. He has not been a leader on his own, he is designated a leader through his generational connection to Steph. This is not like Dray who, like him or not (I don't), you can't deny, he is a leader on his own two feet.
And, aside from a one-off connection to TJD, Klay has not been a "Let me take you under my wing and help you be better, and bask in your reflected glory." To bask in someone's reflected glory you have to see them as taking over for you. He could have done that with Moody, or with Podz, but it does not seem that he did. What evidence is there he's going to have any other attitude toward his new teammates? I hope for his sake he doesn't treat them as impediments to him being the Man. But, if some team is going to have that problem, I'd rather it not be the Dubs.
Meh, if you followed him his playmaking vastly improved when he returned to the starting lineup, particularly setting up TJD. Was kicking butt also on DEFENSE and REBOUNDING. All the KERR experimentation had already done its damage; it was too late in an unstable/disruptive season,
Question for people voting Dante over Post: Does how they pair up with Draymond and TJD influence your thinking or is it just “best player available or bust”?
I like him a lot, but Dante seems like an overlap with TJD.
Interesting ...
I almost always go with best available and did with Dante. It was a bit of a dilemma because Wells' shooting was the obvious 'need' play of the four, to me.
But, for centers, particularly big centers, I value defense over offense (rightly or wrongly). Dante has one key attribute that I look for in a big, which is, is the center quick enough to defend in space. His footwork is really good for a 7' guy.
So, I kind of see him as a defensive-oriented complement to TJD. I don't really consider fit with Draymond that much, since I'm looking past Steph's retirement, rather than the short-term. But, the one thing I did consider is that having a guy like would lessen the need to put Draymond out there against really big centers. Those guys are causing him more trouble now than they used to.
The TL;DR version is that I worried more about roster balance rather than how they would fit on the court together.
Here's my answer: I spent a whole 5 minutes on each prospect and so I am very confident that I can tell which one is the best.
Real answer: a bit of a lt of things. best player available is definitely part of it. Also I feel that Post (despite the perfect name) will not be a super effective player at the NBA level no matter how he develops. OK, none of these likely will, but it feels like I can make up a story where something clicks for Dante mentally and his physical tools make him a solid player. If we really do get lucky like that twice in a row and he's a solid player exactly like TJD, then one of them has trade value. (by the way I feel the same about Wells and would love to see him end up in the Warriors organization somehow, also).
edit: also same reason to draft Curry when you already have Monta.
Non-zero chance Looney is gone, running Dray nearly full-time as a 5 isn’t going to work on his aging body, who knows if we’ll have an opportunity at a good center in free agency. Worst case we have a solid 3rd string center in case of injury.
I mean, that's the worst case with Post, too right? (actual worst case, neither player is an NBA player and a low 2nd round pick turns into nothing, like almost all of them)
Yeah in regards to post in particular i just think he’s better. Just meant in response to dray/tjd redundancy its not a big issue imo
You don't think they would bring in another big(ger) man? I love Loon -- as much for his character and leadership as for his on court contributions -- but I think he might be in trouble. Love to be wrong on that.
I think they’ll take a swing at some, but theres no guarantee they can snag anybody good
Free agency opens June 30th.
"I know all of you were probably looking forward to me talking about Klay unfollowing the Warriors and deleting some IG posts or something. I had no idea that happened," Golden State forward Draymond Green said on the latest episode of his podcast. "I think it's f---ing hilarious.
"I think that's comical. I know you all want somebody's feelings to be hurt or something. It ain't that. Ain't never going to be that. That's hilarious."
“I know all of you were probably looking forward to me talking…”
I’m good, actually.
I quit listening to his podcast after the Punch. Haven't missed it.
My fandom with Dray has become mostly transactional. I root for him to do well so the Ws can do well, but I don't get too emotionally involved. Hard to do that with a guy who blows up the team every so often. He's great when he's great, but when he's gone, a part of me will feel a little relieved.
Perfectly sums up my feelings. Thanks!
I understand the sentiment, but if you haven’t seen it, the Podcast with Looney is worth a listening. I may be biased, but I could listen to Looney talk all day. He seems so genuinely likable and humble while being super smart.
Draymond’s over the top slobbering all over Looney detracted from that podcast for me.
Oh, no doubt on Loon. Love that guy. I just have little interest these days in hearing Dray waffle on about anything (unless it’s a really nerdy hoops x and o’s type convo with a guy like Zach Lowe or JJ Redick).
This episode has quite a bit of nerdy x’s and o’s
i'm posting this article mostly because the headline is great and the writing is good (or at least entertaining, from the Guardian |
Luka Dončić, basketball’s most effective derriere, strikes back in the NBA finals|."
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/15/luka-doncic-dallas-mavericks-boston-celtics-nba-finals-game-4
"Stacked and jacked though his scoring numbers may be, pure statistical accumulation is not, in the final analysis, what makes this Ljubljana-made hero of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex so entertaining. Dončić is the rare basketballer whose hands – as supple and dexterous as they unquestionably are – form the least interesting part of his anatomy. Luka is all noggin, knees, ass, and lip, so much lip – a chunk of pure Slovenian beef, joints and glutes clearing his path through the forest of the opposition’s defense. Many feel Dončić should have been crowned this season’s MVP. Whether he is the best player in the NBA right now is a matter for social media debate, but there’s little doubt he’s basketball’s most effective derriere. I can’t vouch for this statistic’s methodological rigor but at least half his points seemingly come via the backside, that characteristic Dončić butt thrust in the paint that offers the separation needed to execute all those ta-da fadeaways, slipknot passes, and cheeky hooks. Where go this man’s buttocks, so go the Mavericks."
Barkley butt
I was shocked the first time I saw NBA players outside the court. I thought I would be amazed at their height, but it was their width that got me. Antoine Walker and Chauncey Billups were walking towards me in a Vegas casino and I could not believe what I was seeing. It looked like two super-tall refrigerators with giant asses shambling towards me.
Bruce Brown being made available for trade.
r/nba
illuminati
2 hr. ago
EarthWarping
emoji:nba-1: NBA
[Scotto] Toronto is expected to exercise Bruce Brown’s $23 million team option and use him as a trade chip entering the offseason, league sources told HoopsHype.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1dgwe0u/scotto_toronto_is_expected_to_exercise_bruce/
wasn't he available for the TPMLE a couple years ago? sheesh.
Look how far the Warriors are in the dynasty convoy with idiot, casual basketball fans. One mention the first 50'ish comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1dgfs8u/joel_embiid_doesnt_think_the_celtics_will_be_a/
Draymond got roasted. "they were draymonds personality away from winning 7 in 10 years years" 😂
Where do they get seven from? Unless they believe that horse manure about KD leaving because of Draymond?
Even without the KD beef, I’m guessing:
2016 - obv.
2023 - the punch following the ‘chip
2024 - missing so much of the season cost them a playoff birth
Those are increasingly a reach, but he’s cost them chances for sure
I can see it, though. As you say, they /should/ have won 2016.
Their chances were good in 2023 if Poole had been anything like 2022 Poole. Can't know if that would have happened -- JP seemed to be becoming a different guy after the big contract, and maybe that would have happened anyway -- but the Punch scrambles everything no matter how you slice it.
2024, Dray missed a lot of the year. But if JP had stayed and matured (a big IF), 2024 looks pretty promising with him in place of a game but aging CP. And who knows? Wiggins might have been better in both of those years with his best bud still on the team and thriving.
I always look at the 2015 and 2016 championships like they were swapped from how they should have been.
We remember 2016 because Steph and Bogut were hurt, and Draymond got suspended.
But, in 2015, Cleveland was missing Love and Kyrie (and that was peak Love ... not the shell he's been for about 3 years).
And they were draymond’s game away from winning 0 in 10, so it evens out lol
I had a very nice conversation with Perks about all kinds of cap, free agency and offseason issues. The problem(?) is that it's 48 minutes on video, edited down. I'm thinking I have to cut this up into pieces, right? No one is going to watch a 48 min epic...
Not a problem. I watched it twice. Really.
We’re currently in Canada headed to Alaska (the Big Ass Road Trip rolls on) and will definitely listen/watch.
I would, Eric. I usually watch ALL your ''breakdowns''....because they are...well... ''epic''....but, yes, few folks have the time to do so....
I'm with all the other crazies here. I want to hear the whole thing (Perks is very knowledgable ...)
[sheepishly raises hand]
I'd break it in two. 24 minutes a video, or sometihng like that.
48 minutes isn't at all outrageous in podcasts, radio interviews, etc. Let it roll.
Jenny Nicholson’s account of Disney’s Star Wars hotel is over 4 hours long and has been viewed 8 million times in 2 weeks. It’s incredibly compelling and both NY Times and Rolling Stone have interviewed her about it.
My thought: might depend on your target audience. I'm with the others here, I'd be happy to watch 48 min straight. But, for more the casual audience, for example if you have YouTube subscribers that don't spend all day following off-season tea leaves, a multi part-er might get some viewers that would be scared off by 48 min. If you aren't worried about max numbers of viewers, then you can save your self some time editing into pieces.
Are you kidding me Id watch it if it was 2 hours lol
It was the best of drafts, it was the worst of drafts ...
I would just post the thing ... if someone wants to bail on it halfway through, is that really bad? (maybe ... I don't understand podcast economics).
I think you might be surprised how many listens it gets.
Look what I do with my time is my business. If I want to watch a 48 minute video listening to you guys yak about basketball minutiae than, Darvin Hammit, I am gonna watch a 48 minute video! If you cut it down to 24 minutes than I will watch it twice Mr. Apricot!!
D*rvin H*mmit??? Please, this is a family friendly site
Once, but at 0.5 speed just to really let the wisdom sink in.
I would probably just put it on and listen to it like a podcast while doing things about the house. I wouldn’t think you need to cut it down.
Yeah, that's at LEAST 12 minutes too short!
I would.
+1
All this klay talk reminds me of emotions I had going through a breakup. klay seems like he's in the you can't do better than me phase.
Now... This breakup could be with the warriors but it also might be with former peak klay. Definitely a bit of both.
Good thing, time does it's thing and allows one to see things clearly eventually. Still best friends with the person I broke up with; time allowed me to see the issues we had were simply cause we were not right for each other long term. Hopefully if the analogy holds up klay will make ammends with the dubs in the future.
Shit is just too emotional right now.
#WELLS
One of my family names, plus we’re gonna need moooarrr shooting if/when Klay moves on.
I voted for #POST Of the two big men, he seems more NBA-ready offensive and would fit nicely with TJD.
OT: Another video! Here’s highlights of our 3 days in Detroit, which far exceeded our expectations. I’d never been there and Jenny had been there many years earlier, when it was more or less a war zone. It’s been beautifully revitalized and we had a great time checking it out: https://youtu.be/I2TIGi7yt7g?si=nMqNbN7tqcjX_ajj (6 minutes)
r/NBA_Draft
9 hr. ago
CazOnReddit
Raptors
OFFICIAL: Dink Pate has been deemed ineligible for the 2024 NBA Draft
Recently confirmed by Sam Vecenie; Pate should be eligible for the 2025 NBA Draft though what he'll do in the meantime is unknown.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/1dgaai8/official_dink_pate_has_been_deemed_ineligible_for/