I think JK is strong willed and daft enough to take the QO. I think he thinks he can never get a fair shake here and for him the 14 million difference between the QO and the guaranteed first year salary is small enough for him to make it up, or at least that's what he seems to be projecting. Given that, are the Dubs better off releasing him versus him disgruntled on a QO with a NTC?
Real GM: Kessler Edwards and the Denver Nuggets have agreed to a contract. Edwards was a free agent after appearing in 40 games last season with the Dallas Mavericks, averaging 4.2 points, 2.9 rebounds and 1.1 assists while shooting 40.7 percent on three-pointers.
Edwards was a second round pick by the Brooklyn Nets out of Pepperdine in 2021.
This has been the most boring offseason. But barring any injuries and assuming De’Anthony Horford are in the fold, we are winning the chip. There are exactly zero teams out there that I believe can beat us straight up in a playoff series relatively healthy. Of course asking for relative health with a roster that is gonna be top heavy old is nearly asking for a miracle but (big) IF we can then we are winning it all.
I believe we have the talent to do it if everything goes according to plan but a disgruntled player like JK (assuming he stays) can certainly bring us down especially if he's crazy enough to sign the QO
“Think about it, if you can get all your homies rich by telling to bet 10K on my under — this one game imma act like I got an injury and they all get a lil bag… some people come from nothing & they think like that.”
It's obviously a conflict of interest for these leagues yet they sweep it under the rug and solely blame the 'lone wolf' athlete, who simply succumbs to the inevitable pressures...
Maybe how pleased we are to have signed Melton and Horford and brought back GPII, and maybe a story or two about what those guys are doing in the off season, that sort of thing. Happy talk.
Brogdon is a more accomplished offensive player, certainly, and he's still getting minutes, but his shooting was way off last year (.544 TS). I like the assist numbers, though.
And, he only played 24 games and seems to have had a multitude of injuries last year:
I guess if it was a choice between Monk at $19 mil and Brogdon on a vet min, I'd pick Brogden, but GP2 also seems like a good fit (particularly if JK is traded ... he'd be about our only decent on-ball defender, unless you think Melton comes back 100%)
Sure, I can elaborate, but it's the offseason and there's nothing else to talk about so I'm warning you that it will be long. Also note the Warriors have been linked to Brogdon both this summer, it could happen:
1) I am always skeptical when veterans go play for lost cause teams and their numbers decline because I think motivation inevitably gets in the way. The last time Brogdon was on a real team he won the Sixth Man Of The Year award with Boston in 2023. He has languished away on Portland and then Washington since.
2) I am even more skeptical of his games played the last two seasons as well given how he was shut down for the season right around when his team decided to start tanking. I do think Brogdon is injury prone and that along with his age is why he is in the vet min range. But we are comparing him with GP2, both guys are injury prone and old so I don't really think that's a differentiator.
3) Podz was a failure as a backup PG last season. On nights where Curry or Butler are out, the Warriors will need someone who has ability to initiate offense. Brogdon is a real backup PG who can dribble/pass/shoot (something the Warriors lack) and do the "floor general" stuff Kerr wants with his career 2.8 A/TO ratio. This role alone would be more valuable than what GP2 would provide imo.
4) Brogdon is big enough to play with Curry. Brogdon is a good enough shooter to play next to the Butler/Green second unit where spotting up and shooting is crucial. GP2 isn't anywhere near Brogdon's level as a shooter. He has the theoretical versatility to fit how the Warriors play in multiple ways so he wouldn't be as limited lineup-wise as GP2 is.
5) I am confused by the sentiments here that seem to assume Brogdon is a bad defender who is comparable to Malik Monk. Brogdon's reputation over the years has been as a strong defender and point of attack guy. His issue is injury prone-ness, not defensive weakness. 6'11 wingspan by the way.
6) I think sometimes Warrior fans can overvalue guys on the team and undervalue guys playing outside of the team, for instance with Wiggins versus Butler. We saw GP2 play for the Blazers for half a season and it was very bad, he gets a big boost from sharing the floor with Curry. Brogdon would also get that boost if he joined the Warriors.
7) At some point the Warriors need to let Moody loose. I do not agree with your assessment about the on ball defense, I think excluding quick guards Moody has straight up become a better on ball defender than GP2. And for the small guards they would have Melton or Brogdon.
8) GP2's poor shooting matters a lot more now that the team is built around the Butler/Green combo, that's why the Warriors prioritized getting a stretch big. And GP2's calling card is rendered a lot less important by the Warriors going to get Melton. He plugs fewer holes than Brogdon does imo.
BONUS) Brogdon is a great free throw shooter who along with Curry and Butler can give the Warriors a very strong chance to close games out from the line.
Let's assume that Kuminga is re-signed and Horford and Melton are signed. That leaves the depth chart at:
Steph
Podz/Melton
Butler/Moody/Hield
Dray/JK/Gui
Horford/Post/TJD
That leaves 3 additional roster spots to fill. I agree that Brogdon as a backup 1 is a nice pickup. But with the last two? I can see arguments for GPII still. Seth Curry? Kevin Love if he's bought out? Vooch? Hold your breath.....Ben Simmons? There's a lot more reasonable guard options than there are forward/center options.
probably only 2. Money will be tight, and they've shown a clear preference for leaving spot 15 open.
That said, if our summer pickups are JK, Horford, GP2, Melton, Brogden that sounds fine to me.
I think we're actually OK at the size positions if we get Horford (basically 3 centers, Dray at both big slots, and Gui/JK/Butler for PFs). You could make an argument for a biggish wing over GP2.
Seth doesn't really thrill me, TBH, though I see the logic of adding a shooter.
I don't agree with all of the points, but that's a great post.
I do agree that having Brogden as a PG who could run the team is a huge plus. I'm probably more dubious than most about Melton returning from an ACL injury quickly.
Yes. GP2 is a very underrated cutter and finisher at the rim, he's a much better defender, and frankly I haven't seen crap from Brogdon in a while to think he'd be an addition at all. So, 100%, GP2 over Brogdon from my perspective.
(Not to mention chemistry, GP2 is a very popular and well-liked player. That's a bonus though, not a core reason)
GP2 was very good finishing at the rim, especially for his size, a couple of years ago but last season he didn't seem to have the spring in his legs that he used to have. His 3-point shot was way down last season, as well, and he has never been good from the charity stripe. He's still a good cutter and defender but I think he's getting to the end of his NBA career. Prove me wrong GP2!
I do like Brogdon, and I do find Beli’s post (above) persuasive. But also, yeah, GP is my guy. Notable, too, that he’s one of the team’s best screeners (arguably the best now with Looney gone), and has long been our best roller.
Agree, to some extent. I would guess that GP2 little big man looks need to be accounted for in the defensive gameplan, taking up some valuable prep time for opponents. No coach wants his gazillion-dollar center to get out-dunked by a 6'2" guy in a loss.
I don't think today's Brogdon needs to be accounted for specially to opposing teams.
[Bachar] Kevin Durant Says Him Winning NBA Finals MVP Awards Over (Stephen) Curry 'Scarred' Warriors Fans: "Them finals mvps, they will never recover"
Houston Rockets star Kevin Durant wrote that his NBA Finals MVP award victories over Stephen Curry "scarred" Golden State Warriors fans in a Sunday post on X.
Them finals mvps I won hurt you. Scarred alot of warrior fans when my name was announced
Durant also responded to a fan asking why some Warriors fans dislike him, explaining that "they will never recover" from his Finals MVPs.
Kinda ironic that the reason that most Ws fans don't love KD as much as Steph or as much as his basketball greatness probably deserves is because he says (and does) stuff like that)
I feel like the (bad) contract Houston gave Jalen Green specifically is setting unrealistic expectations for similarly terrible contracts. I’d rather have Kuminga than Green, personally, but neither is worth nearly what Green is making.
"Kuminga recently made a trip to his home country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and returned to Miami (his current offseason workout spot) with the same opinion about the Golden State Warriors' two-year, $45 million offer.
The Warriors initially presented it to Kuminga's representation as a tradeable deal that could ultimately appease the long-term wishes of both sides when he's eligible to be moved again in January, sources said. It's why Golden State wants a team option in the second season and requested Kuminga waive his inherent no-trade clause.
But that's also why Kuminga has continued to shut it down. He doesn't want such a team-friendly deal, sources said, and the idea of signing up to be more easily traded midseason is unappealing to him."
Sounds like we're in for a long wait. And yeah, I still don't buy that a QO is more appealing than 1 yr/21.5 because of a possible team option. And yeah, the locker room is gonna suck while JK is still there.
The QO is such a risky move, I don't know why JK would seriously consider it. If he doesn't play a lot or play in a consistent role, or if he suffers an injury again that takes him out of action for a large chunk of the year, it would tank his potential earnings for many years. Nerlens Noel's cautionary tale wasn't that long ago.
How about it being as good as his market requires of GSW? He can find a contract that beats it, but so far hasn't as far as we know. Or he can take the QP at the end and try again next year, which I don't think is the worst option tbh.
Making his contract "worse" than what? Nobody is offering him $30M. He can only find a contract that beats GSW's offer in a S&T, if then, and the other team has to give GSW value back because MDJ isn't taking on the other team's discards just to make JK happy.
Maybe "not the worst option" is the wrong phrasing, but there's a world where taking the QO is more appealing. It guarantees him freedom to choose his own offer from another team next year and the choice of team if traded this year. If he really wants to choose where he plays, that's better than taking the 1+1, GSW not trading him, and being in this same situation again next year. In the second scenario, he has less leverage on where to go and (speculating here, idk whether he actually sees the situation like this) has spent another year with the warriors bungling his development.
I'm not saying I personally would choose this, but if I thought my employer was acting in bad faith and they had control over me, I'd try to get out of that ASAP. If JK really is considering the QO, maybe his thinking is something along these lines?
QO also leaves him vulnerable to being savagely benched. He's not a good fit w/ Jimmy and Dray, Kerr has already shown a willingness to bench him, and now he'll be a malcontent with no future value to be gleaned from developing him. If he refuses to waive his no trade clause there's even less incentive to give him a single minute he doesn't earn, since those development minutes will be coming from Moody and Guil; both of whom actually have a future with the team, and are willing to do whatever the coach asks of them. Definitely a huge risk.
That's why I think (eventually), JK will accept an S&T to a team other than Sac and/or for less money (but for 3 or more yrs). The Warriors will probably meet him in the middle (take a protected pick or something).
Not ideal, but at least both sides will get something.
hard to see a sign a trade working out for me -- teams don't really wanna pay him 20+/yr as it is, let alone after giving up value in a trade. I think the warriors think (rightfully) that 1+1 @ 45m is a fair enough offer that he'd be stupid not to take it and sign the QO, and unfortunately... he might be stupid.
If the first thing you do upon getting back from a trip is to call Slater to broadcast that the $8M QO is more appealing than the 2/$45M contract offer, the QO is definitely NOT more appealing than the 2/$45M.
I feel like I’m watching a student fail at Power Plays 101 in real time. At every turn, this kid shows his hand. No decently-run team will allow any player to dominate and, essentially, emasculate them. That is bad for business. The fact that JK is demanding to have complete control over where he’s traded, and when, speaks to an overblown sense of his own leverage as a RFA.
I have to say, I like the way the Warriors are handling this on the PR front - plenty of other front offices would be “anonymous sources” for dirt-dragging gossip. So far, Dubs FO is very tight-lipped. Impressive discipline in a pressured situation.
If he wants to end up somewhere else, he’s doing everything possible to make himself less appealing. Help the Warriors help you, Kid! I’m sorry, but you’re not JBIII, with a proven elite track record. The two teams who are reportedly eager for Kuminga? - the two worst front offices in the league. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
"The fact that JK is demanding to have complete control over where he’s traded, and when, speaks to an overblown sense of his own leverage as a RFA.
"If he wants to end up somewhere else..."
He can end somewhere else, and have complete control over where, if he signs the QO and plays for the Warriors (is on the roster) next season. He could have already done that. That is what being a RFA has got him.
IF he and his agent want more, then they need to negotitate... it seems to me that is probably what is going on now.
Edit: Hol’ up on that correction - a trade isn’t applicable if he signs the QO, so my description was correct. It sounds like you’re trying to correct or educate me. Why? Perhaps you’re not comprehending what I’m asserting.
I was not talking about a trade. Nor trying to correct or educate you.
Just reading lots of stuff from many people about this whole JK situation and it has all seemed to me to be a part of contract negotiations.
Very few people really know what is actually being offered or said.
Basically a lot of all these reports from Slater or others, are no new news.
He knows what the QO would mean and he can decide to sign or continue to negotiate.
So my take on where they are now is that J Kuminga has to decide what is most important to him, $$ or playing for whichever team he chooses. A part of that decision is how he feels about playing for the Warriors.
He can decide the money is more important and still not get it because so far nobody is showing both the willingness to offer that much and the ability to pull off a deal.
He can't necessarily play for whichever team he chooses regardless of what he decides. The team he chooses has to be able to not only offer him a deal he wants but offer a trade GSW will accept and also be hard-capped at the first apron.
JK might have to accept a team that's close enough to what he wants AND take less money than he wants but enough to ease the pain — like the deal the Dub are offering now.
If he wants to choose which team he goes to, he accepts the QO and plays out this coming season and is an unrestrictred free agent. Sure he will then need to find a team to his liking that is willing to make him an acceptable offer.
If he decides he wants the money, from what we've read the Warriors have made an offer to him for more $$ than the QO.
But at this point he has known all of that for several weeks. He also knows he eventually needs to make a decision. The fact that it has not happened leads me to think his side is still trying to negotiate in some way ... but I'm not sure what options, or leverage they may have.
The kid's continuing to torpedo his value. What team is going to want to sign up for this amount of drama in future negotiations when there is no solid evidence he'll even be an all star? What a mess for him. Someone needs to get through to him, and clearly his agent either doesn't want to or isn't able to.
To be fair, all the similar RFAs are doing the same thing as JK. Waiting is really all the leverage they have at this point (aside from taking the QO). Not even a lot of juicy drama from JK’s RFA so far, the closest was his ‘bet on myself’ insta post & even that was kinda tame imo
All that to say, I don’t think the back-and-forth hurts anyone’s value or reputation, JK or the Warriors FO - it seems like standard negotiations all around.
It is frustrating as a fan tho, I really wish I could fast forward to the resolution already. The notifications in quick succession that JK re-signed, Horford signed, Melton signed, & GPII signed are going to hit like crack
As far as I know, for most of the RFAs it's just about money. Pay 'em enough, and they'd stay where they are. For JK it's both money and his fit on the team. That complicates matters.
Admittedly, I haven’t been following the other FAs closely, but Kuminga’s discontent is a longstanding issue, and the tenor of these negotiations, if you can call them that, has not been “I’m waiting to see how the market shakes out” but a continuation of his discontent. That’s my perception, at least. Obviously don’t have insider knowledge.
Imo he wants a 3 year deal. The $82 ask is just an attempt at trying to get the warriors to go up from the $22 per year they’re offering, not an actual expected number to reach.
Issue is, the warriors have no reason to meet his demands. Worst case they save money on a guy they didn’t plan on keeping anyway. Trading him is still possible if he takes the QO, and I believe teams still retain bird rights if they do get him.
Can someone(s) explain why the Warriors won't offer 3 years? Doesn't that keep him for longer on team they trade him to and that's appealing, if his play up to the trade doesn't tank his value? And if his value goes up with great play, then everyone is happy and keep him. What am I missing?
"Sources: Dunleavy, Jr was beside himself. Driving around downtown Goma begging (thru texts) Kuminga's family for address to Jonathan's home. Then 10 people texted him: 'JKs in Miami, bro.' Dunleavy, Jr took the next plane to the Bay Area."
>>>Kuminga set out this summer in search of a contract that would signify a commitment to him as a future building block for the Warriors or elsewhere, sources said. His representation presented a three-year, $82 million deal, which the Warriors resisted. As of this past weekend, there had been no movement toward a compromise.
So, everything sits in the same spot it did 10 days ago. The Warriors have not upped their offer, and Kuminga has indicated to those close to him that the $7.9 million qualifying offer is more appealing to him than the Warriors' current pitch. Something has to give before the Oct. 1 deadline.<<<
Three years/$82 million? Screw that. That would put the Warriors in the 2nd apron.
I wish we could get something for JK this month, but I guess the QO wouldn't be horrible at this point:
- a trade might actually be easier (if JK approves, of course) for both sides vs both an S&T and a multi-year 20+ mil deal-and-trade-at-the-deadline
- we'd still have JK (and, in my opinion, a motivated one)
- we actually gain cap space vs his old contract, and are able to sign everyone we want immediately
Ideally, I'd love to get back (either directly or through further trades) either 1 player that's definitely better than JK or 2+ depth pieces that could come off the bench in a playoff game and give a few minutes. I doubt if that's going to happen now (or was ever going to happen without adding assets from GSW's end)
With 8.5% raises, you might be able to construct 3/82 starting at $25M which could allow Horford and Melton plus the SRPs and stay under the second apron. But it would become a very complicated tightrope walk. And I don't think they could fit any more vet mins.
Plus, they would start cluttering their books for 2027 which the Dubs are intentionally keeping open.
Your last point is the key one. Not even close to that figure. A lot of players with lower skillsets than JK get signed to contracts like that because they maximize their talents in the team context. JK has not done that, and it is a critical failure.
Yeah I don't think three years is happening, I'd assume the real argument is over the team option for the second year, I could see the Warriors giving that up although ideally they don't because that maximizes Kuminga's trade value.
I will consider it a failure by the Warrior front office if they sign Kuminga for more than 2 years.
I mean, I like JK, and want to keep him, but 3/82 is just bonkers. Seems like he's going to need to see some missed paychecks before there's a chance he comes to earth.
I liked and agree with MJ being the best player,LeBron having the best career and Steph changing the game more than anyone by far.
Steph has without any doubt changed the game and influenced so many kids.
So Steph is the most impactful player and interestingly I think the most dangerous in one game even lacking the size and physical gifts of the other two, because of his ability to go off scoring.
If MJ wasn’t a great defender I would have put Steph over him, but you can’t blow off half the game. By blow off I don’t mean Steph doesn’t play D. I mean when comparing you have to acknowledge a great defender vs a pretty average defender.
The most dangerous player to have played the game was Wilt. Wilt also was the most dominant player, which is not to say the best because comparing across the different eras is very difficult. If you saw Wilt, you know.
Wilt changed the game too but in different ways than Steph: Rules were changed due to Wilt but Steph influenced the way the next generation plays the game, so I won't argue that point.
All that matters is your overall impact on the game. An exception can be made if you are so bad at one end that you are able to be played off the floor in the playoffs but that doesn't apply to Curry so it is irrelevant.
To use a made up example, if Player A is a +10 on offense and a +5 on defense, and Player B is a +7 on offense and a +7 on defense, then Player A is a +15 and Player B is a +14 despite Player B being more well-rounded.
If you think Curry is the most impactful player then that's a boon to Curry's GOAT argument imo.
Isn’t the general consensus that offense if more valuable than defense?
If GP2 is a 10 on defense and a 2 or 3 on offense, would he ever be considered as valuable as someone like Ja (personal issues aside) who’s the other way around?
What I mean by impactful is he is responsible for thousands of kids trying to become great 3 point shooters and was someone they could relate too vs relating to someone who can dunk from the 3 point line.
I cannot say that Steph is better than MJ because he isn’t in my opinion. He is very different. MJ even averaged more points without shooting 3’s.
The only advantage I see with Steph is he is capable of scoring a bunch of points in a hurry because he can go off on 3’s.
MJ scored and averaged a lot more points and was clearly a better player when you look at the complete picture.
Which you add to his perfect fundamentals and competitiveness and you have the goat in my opinion.
Google Curry vs Jordan career stats and I was surprised at how big the difference is.
I think it is easy to get hung up on the 3 point shooting but what is important on offense is the scoring. MJ scored a lot more and he did it in an era where defenses were allowed to be a lot more physical. I still remember a young MJ going for 65 or so in a playoff in Boston vs that great Celtics team, before he won anything.
It is all just opinion and each person has their own goat and that is all that matters, right? It is fun to talk about, but it is just personal preference.Steph is by far my favorite player of all time, just not my goat.
And I wouldn't say Steph blew off playing defense either... by the time his career is over, people will have finally acknowledged that he's actually a half decent defender, especially so in the back half of his career after he put on some more muscle.
I recall that at least in the playoffs LeBron's numbers when defended by Curry were terrible...so if you can shut down the (2nd) best player of all time, seems like the defense might be pretty good...
Yeah, great point, Steph arguably works HARDER than Jordan on D to make up for his lack of physical gifts on that side of the ball. Playing D during the Illegal Defense era was both harder (crazy arcane rules nobody really understood) and easier (most of it was one on one as opposed to all of the switching and help defense required in this era).
Most sports sites (like good old GSOM and every other site with a bajillion ads) make money per ad view, but sadly I make $0.00 on every click. So bots wouldn't help me. Otherwise, the whole comment section would be replaced by 4 python scripts.
But I'll eventually unload them by throwing a free QP Kewpie doll into every delivery, whether it was requested or not. I'll also send them to people who didn't buy from the Gift Shoppe
I think JK is strong willed and daft enough to take the QO. I think he thinks he can never get a fair shake here and for him the 14 million difference between the QO and the guaranteed first year salary is small enough for him to make it up, or at least that's what he seems to be projecting. Given that, are the Dubs better off releasing him versus him disgruntled on a QO with a NTC?
Real GM: Kessler Edwards and the Denver Nuggets have agreed to a contract. Edwards was a free agent after appearing in 40 games last season with the Dallas Mavericks, averaging 4.2 points, 2.9 rebounds and 1.1 assists while shooting 40.7 percent on three-pointers.
Edwards was a second round pick by the Brooklyn Nets out of Pepperdine in 2021.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281659/Kessler-Edwards-Nuggets-Agree-To-Contract
Nuggets keep winning the offseason. Sheesh.
Nuggest passed go meanwhile dubs are locked in jail
On the Jimmy/Buddy bobblehead. It’s not Batman and Robin. It’s them at a press conference. You can see it here: https://bsky.app/profile/kerithburke.bsky.social/post/3lwa7p36k4c2g
Can't be Batman and Robin 'cause Buddy is "like, the Joker or something" (per Jimmy)
I can't wait till Kerith asks her question. 😅
What is going on in this picture?
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1mokbah/maybe_steph_shouldve_done_to_jks_lambo_what_he/#lightbox
Was that when they filled the car with popcorn?
Wow... brings back memories. RJ, Biedrins, DLee = what year was this from?
Bazemore's rookie year, this was his hazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYVkazLiZY
Someone said 2013.
This has been the most boring offseason. But barring any injuries and assuming De’Anthony Horford are in the fold, we are winning the chip. There are exactly zero teams out there that I believe can beat us straight up in a playoff series relatively healthy. Of course asking for relative health with a roster that is gonna be top heavy old is nearly asking for a miracle but (big) IF we can then we are winning it all.
I’m in!
I hope you mean his son, De'Anthony Horford II.
I believe we have the talent to do it if everything goes according to plan but a disgruntled player like JK (assuming he stays) can certainly bring us down especially if he's crazy enough to sign the QO
Michael Porter Jr has got to be the undisputed king of being the dumbest player in the NBA
Michael Porter Jr. on sports betting:
“Think about it, if you can get all your homies rich by telling to bet 10K on my under — this one game imma act like I got an injury and they all get a lil bag… some people come from nothing & they think like that.”
It sounds to me like he's pointing out the conflict of interest, which doesn't sound stupid to me.
You do realize he's talking about his brother, right?
Yes. It’s not a good look to speak on that even if he was talking about someone he doesn’t know..
It's obviously a conflict of interest for these leagues yet they sweep it under the rug and solely blame the 'lone wolf' athlete, who simply succumbs to the inevitable pressures...
I think a kinder interpretation is he is talking about the pressures of being poor and making mistakes, not saying it's okay.
Soon....
https://www.espn.com/nba/scoreboard
Damn, we start the season with road games in LA and Denver? Well, at least we won't have to worry about a non-representative start this year.
So you're assuming we lose those and it accurately represents our season?
I hope they're saying that the 2-0 start on the road will be entirely representative for the season!
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. I mean, what else would we be talking about if this Jk thing wasn't a thing?
Maybe how pleased we are to have signed Melton and Horford and brought back GPII, and maybe a story or two about what those guys are doing in the off season, that sort of thing. Happy talk.
Are we pleased to bring back GP2 if the Warriors sign Melton? I don't really get that theoretical signing, I'd rather sign Brogdon.
Care to elaborate why?
Brogdon is a more accomplished offensive player, certainly, and he's still getting minutes, but his shooting was way off last year (.544 TS). I like the assist numbers, though.
And, he only played 24 games and seems to have had a multitude of injuries last year:
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/malcolm-brogdon-player-injuries
I guess if it was a choice between Monk at $19 mil and Brogdon on a vet min, I'd pick Brogden, but GP2 also seems like a good fit (particularly if JK is traded ... he'd be about our only decent on-ball defender, unless you think Melton comes back 100%)
Tough to say who is more brittle: Brogden or GP2.
Sure, I can elaborate, but it's the offseason and there's nothing else to talk about so I'm warning you that it will be long. Also note the Warriors have been linked to Brogdon both this summer, it could happen:
1) I am always skeptical when veterans go play for lost cause teams and their numbers decline because I think motivation inevitably gets in the way. The last time Brogdon was on a real team he won the Sixth Man Of The Year award with Boston in 2023. He has languished away on Portland and then Washington since.
2) I am even more skeptical of his games played the last two seasons as well given how he was shut down for the season right around when his team decided to start tanking. I do think Brogdon is injury prone and that along with his age is why he is in the vet min range. But we are comparing him with GP2, both guys are injury prone and old so I don't really think that's a differentiator.
3) Podz was a failure as a backup PG last season. On nights where Curry or Butler are out, the Warriors will need someone who has ability to initiate offense. Brogdon is a real backup PG who can dribble/pass/shoot (something the Warriors lack) and do the "floor general" stuff Kerr wants with his career 2.8 A/TO ratio. This role alone would be more valuable than what GP2 would provide imo.
4) Brogdon is big enough to play with Curry. Brogdon is a good enough shooter to play next to the Butler/Green second unit where spotting up and shooting is crucial. GP2 isn't anywhere near Brogdon's level as a shooter. He has the theoretical versatility to fit how the Warriors play in multiple ways so he wouldn't be as limited lineup-wise as GP2 is.
5) I am confused by the sentiments here that seem to assume Brogdon is a bad defender who is comparable to Malik Monk. Brogdon's reputation over the years has been as a strong defender and point of attack guy. His issue is injury prone-ness, not defensive weakness. 6'11 wingspan by the way.
6) I think sometimes Warrior fans can overvalue guys on the team and undervalue guys playing outside of the team, for instance with Wiggins versus Butler. We saw GP2 play for the Blazers for half a season and it was very bad, he gets a big boost from sharing the floor with Curry. Brogdon would also get that boost if he joined the Warriors.
7) At some point the Warriors need to let Moody loose. I do not agree with your assessment about the on ball defense, I think excluding quick guards Moody has straight up become a better on ball defender than GP2. And for the small guards they would have Melton or Brogdon.
8) GP2's poor shooting matters a lot more now that the team is built around the Butler/Green combo, that's why the Warriors prioritized getting a stretch big. And GP2's calling card is rendered a lot less important by the Warriors going to get Melton. He plugs fewer holes than Brogdon does imo.
BONUS) Brogdon is a great free throw shooter who along with Curry and Butler can give the Warriors a very strong chance to close games out from the line.
Are we sure GPII and Brogdon are exclusive?
Let's assume that Kuminga is re-signed and Horford and Melton are signed. That leaves the depth chart at:
Steph
Podz/Melton
Butler/Moody/Hield
Dray/JK/Gui
Horford/Post/TJD
That leaves 3 additional roster spots to fill. I agree that Brogdon as a backup 1 is a nice pickup. But with the last two? I can see arguments for GPII still. Seth Curry? Kevin Love if he's bought out? Vooch? Hold your breath.....Ben Simmons? There's a lot more reasonable guard options than there are forward/center options.
probably only 2. Money will be tight, and they've shown a clear preference for leaving spot 15 open.
That said, if our summer pickups are JK, Horford, GP2, Melton, Brogden that sounds fine to me.
I think we're actually OK at the size positions if we get Horford (basically 3 centers, Dray at both big slots, and Gui/JK/Butler for PFs). You could make an argument for a biggish wing over GP2.
Seth doesn't really thrill me, TBH, though I see the logic of adding a shooter.
I don't agree with all of the points, but that's a great post.
I do agree that having Brogden as a PG who could run the team is a huge plus. I'm probably more dubious than most about Melton returning from an ACL injury quickly.
haha yeah I think he mighta convinced me that Brogdon + GP2 is preferable to Melton
Yes. GP2 is a very underrated cutter and finisher at the rim, he's a much better defender, and frankly I haven't seen crap from Brogdon in a while to think he'd be an addition at all. So, 100%, GP2 over Brogdon from my perspective.
(Not to mention chemistry, GP2 is a very popular and well-liked player. That's a bonus though, not a core reason)
GP2 was very good finishing at the rim, especially for his size, a couple of years ago but last season he didn't seem to have the spring in his legs that he used to have. His 3-point shot was way down last season, as well, and he has never been good from the charity stripe. He's still a good cutter and defender but I think he's getting to the end of his NBA career. Prove me wrong GP2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZDVvdjbsF4
Looks pretty good to me
Yeah you're right, I didn't remember several of those.
I do like Brogdon, and I do find Beli’s post (above) persuasive. But also, yeah, GP is my guy. Notable, too, that he’s one of the team’s best screeners (arguably the best now with Looney gone), and has long been our best roller.
Agree, to some extent. I would guess that GP2 little big man looks need to be accounted for in the defensive gameplan, taking up some valuable prep time for opponents. No coach wants his gazillion-dollar center to get out-dunked by a 6'2" guy in a loss.
I don't think today's Brogdon needs to be accounted for specially to opposing teams.
Probably more Curry highlight videos. Or how Curry is better than Jmmer Fredette or something
Thanking Minnesota for picking Rubio and Flynn.
Sure, KD.
r/nba
nba-1
13 hr. ago
th31whoknocks
r/nba
[Bachar] Kevin Durant Says Him Winning NBA Finals MVP Awards Over (Stephen) Curry 'Scarred' Warriors Fans: "Them finals mvps, they will never recover"
Houston Rockets star Kevin Durant wrote that his NBA Finals MVP award victories over Stephen Curry "scarred" Golden State Warriors fans in a Sunday post on X.
Them finals mvps I won hurt you. Scarred alot of warrior fans when my name was announced
Durant also responded to a fan asking why some Warriors fans dislike him, explaining that "they will never recover" from his Finals MVPs.
Them finals mvps, they will never recover
Maybe he's the one scarred and will never recover because Dub Nation wouldn't give him the adoration they've bestowed on Steph.
That's just dumb, and I think KD is smart enough to know that even if he won't say it.
Man Lives Life On Twitter, Gains Perspective
Kinda ironic that the reason that most Ws fans don't love KD as much as Steph or as much as his basketball greatness probably deserves is because he says (and does) stuff like that)
Keep telling yourself that, you joyless weirdo.
Sad.
Glad we have Jimmy.
I feel like he's digging into deep Twitter lore that makes me just sigh 😮💨
"[Kaplan] Cam Thomas reportedly wants nearly $40M a year, believing he deserves as much or more than Jalen Green, Immanuel Quickley, and Tyler Herro."
The Nets will quickly say no
I feel like the (bad) contract Houston gave Jalen Green specifically is setting unrealistic expectations for similarly terrible contracts. I’d rather have Kuminga than Green, personally, but neither is worth nearly what Green is making.
Harden, Ja, Shai money.
“But I believe in myself!”
That's delusional. Cam Thomas is NOT worth that much.
Omg y'all.
They're giving away JB and Buddy Best Buddies Bobbleheads at the October 17th game.
This is the vibe I need from this team right now.
I hope they are fitted as Robin and Alfred 😂
From Slater:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45927318/nba-free-agents-2025-jonathan-kuminga-russell-westbrook-josh-giddey
"Kuminga recently made a trip to his home country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and returned to Miami (his current offseason workout spot) with the same opinion about the Golden State Warriors' two-year, $45 million offer.
The Warriors initially presented it to Kuminga's representation as a tradeable deal that could ultimately appease the long-term wishes of both sides when he's eligible to be moved again in January, sources said. It's why Golden State wants a team option in the second season and requested Kuminga waive his inherent no-trade clause.
But that's also why Kuminga has continued to shut it down. He doesn't want such a team-friendly deal, sources said, and the idea of signing up to be more easily traded midseason is unappealing to him."
Sounds like we're in for a long wait. And yeah, I still don't buy that a QO is more appealing than 1 yr/21.5 because of a possible team option. And yeah, the locker room is gonna suck while JK is still there.
The QO is such a risky move, I don't know why JK would seriously consider it. If he doesn't play a lot or play in a consistent role, or if he suffers an injury again that takes him out of action for a large chunk of the year, it would tank his potential earnings for many years. Nerlens Noel's cautionary tale wasn't that long ago.
The second Noel.
So he doesn’t want to be traded mid season if he signs a multi year offer. Does that mean he would take a 3/$70 or 3/$75?
Given current salaries, I have to believe that kind of deal would make him a positive asset in the league.
It’s not that he doesn’t want to be traded, it’s that he doesn’t want his contract to be worse for the sake of it being more easily tradeable.
How about it being as good as his market requires of GSW? He can find a contract that beats it, but so far hasn't as far as we know. Or he can take the QP at the end and try again next year, which I don't think is the worst option tbh.
Making his contract "worse" than what? Nobody is offering him $30M. He can only find a contract that beats GSW's offer in a S&T, if then, and the other team has to give GSW value back because MDJ isn't taking on the other team's discards just to make JK happy.
that's probably a far worse option than the 1+1, he could tear his achilles and be looking at a midlevel next season
Maybe "not the worst option" is the wrong phrasing, but there's a world where taking the QO is more appealing. It guarantees him freedom to choose his own offer from another team next year and the choice of team if traded this year. If he really wants to choose where he plays, that's better than taking the 1+1, GSW not trading him, and being in this same situation again next year. In the second scenario, he has less leverage on where to go and (speculating here, idk whether he actually sees the situation like this) has spent another year with the warriors bungling his development.
I'm not saying I personally would choose this, but if I thought my employer was acting in bad faith and they had control over me, I'd try to get out of that ASAP. If JK really is considering the QO, maybe his thinking is something along these lines?
If my employer were paying me $23 million a year, I would allow my employer to bungle my development.
I understand both positions, but nobody else has offered Kuminga $23 million to play next season no matter crappy deal they offered the Warriors.
QO also leaves him vulnerable to being savagely benched. He's not a good fit w/ Jimmy and Dray, Kerr has already shown a willingness to bench him, and now he'll be a malcontent with no future value to be gleaned from developing him. If he refuses to waive his no trade clause there's even less incentive to give him a single minute he doesn't earn, since those development minutes will be coming from Moody and Guil; both of whom actually have a future with the team, and are willing to do whatever the coach asks of them. Definitely a huge risk.
That's why I think (eventually), JK will accept an S&T to a team other than Sac and/or for less money (but for 3 or more yrs). The Warriors will probably meet him in the middle (take a protected pick or something).
Not ideal, but at least both sides will get something.
hard to see a sign a trade working out for me -- teams don't really wanna pay him 20+/yr as it is, let alone after giving up value in a trade. I think the warriors think (rightfully) that 1+1 @ 45m is a fair enough offer that he'd be stupid not to take it and sign the QO, and unfortunately... he might be stupid.
If the first thing you do upon getting back from a trip is to call Slater to broadcast that the $8M QO is more appealing than the 2/$45M contract offer, the QO is definitely NOT more appealing than the 2/$45M.
I feel like I’m watching a student fail at Power Plays 101 in real time. At every turn, this kid shows his hand. No decently-run team will allow any player to dominate and, essentially, emasculate them. That is bad for business. The fact that JK is demanding to have complete control over where he’s traded, and when, speaks to an overblown sense of his own leverage as a RFA.
I have to say, I like the way the Warriors are handling this on the PR front - plenty of other front offices would be “anonymous sources” for dirt-dragging gossip. So far, Dubs FO is very tight-lipped. Impressive discipline in a pressured situation.
If he wants to end up somewhere else, he’s doing everything possible to make himself less appealing. Help the Warriors help you, Kid! I’m sorry, but you’re not JBIII, with a proven elite track record. The two teams who are reportedly eager for Kuminga? - the two worst front offices in the league. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
"The fact that JK is demanding to have complete control over where he’s traded, and when, speaks to an overblown sense of his own leverage as a RFA.
"If he wants to end up somewhere else..."
He can end somewhere else, and have complete control over where, if he signs the QO and plays for the Warriors (is on the roster) next season. He could have already done that. That is what being a RFA has got him.
IF he and his agent want more, then they need to negotitate... it seems to me that is probably what is going on now.
Edit: Hol’ up on that correction - a trade isn’t applicable if he signs the QO, so my description was correct. It sounds like you’re trying to correct or educate me. Why? Perhaps you’re not comprehending what I’m asserting.
I thought it was implied. Will correct.
I was not talking about a trade. Nor trying to correct or educate you.
Just reading lots of stuff from many people about this whole JK situation and it has all seemed to me to be a part of contract negotiations.
Very few people really know what is actually being offered or said.
Basically a lot of all these reports from Slater or others, are no new news.
He knows what the QO would mean and he can decide to sign or continue to negotiate.
So my take on where they are now is that J Kuminga has to decide what is most important to him, $$ or playing for whichever team he chooses. A part of that decision is how he feels about playing for the Warriors.
I'm not convinced the decision is that simple.
He can decide the money is more important and still not get it because so far nobody is showing both the willingness to offer that much and the ability to pull off a deal.
He can't necessarily play for whichever team he chooses regardless of what he decides. The team he chooses has to be able to not only offer him a deal he wants but offer a trade GSW will accept and also be hard-capped at the first apron.
JK might have to accept a team that's close enough to what he wants AND take less money than he wants but enough to ease the pain — like the deal the Dub are offering now.
If he wants to choose which team he goes to, he accepts the QO and plays out this coming season and is an unrestrictred free agent. Sure he will then need to find a team to his liking that is willing to make him an acceptable offer.
If he decides he wants the money, from what we've read the Warriors have made an offer to him for more $$ than the QO.
But at this point he has known all of that for several weeks. He also knows he eventually needs to make a decision. The fact that it has not happened leads me to think his side is still trying to negotiate in some way ... but I'm not sure what options, or leverage they may have.
The kid's continuing to torpedo his value. What team is going to want to sign up for this amount of drama in future negotiations when there is no solid evidence he'll even be an all star? What a mess for him. Someone needs to get through to him, and clearly his agent either doesn't want to or isn't able to.
To be fair, all the similar RFAs are doing the same thing as JK. Waiting is really all the leverage they have at this point (aside from taking the QO). Not even a lot of juicy drama from JK’s RFA so far, the closest was his ‘bet on myself’ insta post & even that was kinda tame imo
All that to say, I don’t think the back-and-forth hurts anyone’s value or reputation, JK or the Warriors FO - it seems like standard negotiations all around.
It is frustrating as a fan tho, I really wish I could fast forward to the resolution already. The notifications in quick succession that JK re-signed, Horford signed, Melton signed, & GPII signed are going to hit like crack
As far as I know, for most of the RFAs it's just about money. Pay 'em enough, and they'd stay where they are. For JK it's both money and his fit on the team. That complicates matters.
Admittedly, I haven’t been following the other FAs closely, but Kuminga’s discontent is a longstanding issue, and the tenor of these negotiations, if you can call them that, has not been “I’m waiting to see how the market shakes out” but a continuation of his discontent. That’s my perception, at least. Obviously don’t have insider knowledge.
Imo he wants a 3 year deal. The $82 ask is just an attempt at trying to get the warriors to go up from the $22 per year they’re offering, not an actual expected number to reach.
Issue is, the warriors have no reason to meet his demands. Worst case they save money on a guy they didn’t plan on keeping anyway. Trading him is still possible if he takes the QO, and I believe teams still retain bird rights if they do get him.
Can someone(s) explain why the Warriors won't offer 3 years? Doesn't that keep him for longer on team they trade him to and that's appealing, if his play up to the trade doesn't tank his value? And if his value goes up with great play, then everyone is happy and keep him. What am I missing?
the distinct possibility that his he doesn't play great and increase his value
I think they want to reset the books for 2027.
"Sources: Dunleavy, Jr was beside himself. Driving around downtown Goma begging (thru texts) Kuminga's family for address to Jonathan's home. Then 10 people texted him: 'JKs in Miami, bro.' Dunleavy, Jr took the next plane to the Bay Area."
:)
>>>Kuminga set out this summer in search of a contract that would signify a commitment to him as a future building block for the Warriors or elsewhere, sources said. His representation presented a three-year, $82 million deal, which the Warriors resisted. As of this past weekend, there had been no movement toward a compromise.
So, everything sits in the same spot it did 10 days ago. The Warriors have not upped their offer, and Kuminga has indicated to those close to him that the $7.9 million qualifying offer is more appealing to him than the Warriors' current pitch. Something has to give before the Oct. 1 deadline.<<<
Three years/$82 million? Screw that. That would put the Warriors in the 2nd apron.
I wish we could get something for JK this month, but I guess the QO wouldn't be horrible at this point:
- a trade might actually be easier (if JK approves, of course) for both sides vs both an S&T and a multi-year 20+ mil deal-and-trade-at-the-deadline
- we'd still have JK (and, in my opinion, a motivated one)
- we actually gain cap space vs his old contract, and are able to sign everyone we want immediately
Ideally, I'd love to get back (either directly or through further trades) either 1 player that's definitely better than JK or 2+ depth pieces that could come off the bench in a playoff game and give a few minutes. I doubt if that's going to happen now (or was ever going to happen without adding assets from GSW's end)
*Alonzo Mourning shrug*
With 8.5% raises, you might be able to construct 3/82 starting at $25M which could allow Horford and Melton plus the SRPs and stay under the second apron. But it would become a very complicated tightrope walk. And I don't think they could fit any more vet mins.
Plus, they would start cluttering their books for 2027 which the Dubs are intentionally keeping open.
More importantly, JK is just not worth 3/82.
Your last point is the key one. Not even close to that figure. A lot of players with lower skillsets than JK get signed to contracts like that because they maximize their talents in the team context. JK has not done that, and it is a critical failure.
I wouldn't say "lower skillsets" I'd say "lower ceiling"
I'll allow it.
Yeah I don't think three years is happening, I'd assume the real argument is over the team option for the second year, I could see the Warriors giving that up although ideally they don't because that maximizes Kuminga's trade value.
I will consider it a failure by the Warrior front office if they sign Kuminga for more than 2 years.
buried the lede there lol
I mean, I like JK, and want to keep him, but 3/82 is just bonkers. Seems like he's going to need to see some missed paychecks before there's a chance he comes to earth.
Yeah, this is going to training camp
Reading some comments on the greatest ever.
I liked and agree with MJ being the best player,LeBron having the best career and Steph changing the game more than anyone by far.
Steph has without any doubt changed the game and influenced so many kids.
So Steph is the most impactful player and interestingly I think the most dangerous in one game even lacking the size and physical gifts of the other two, because of his ability to go off scoring.
If MJ wasn’t a great defender I would have put Steph over him, but you can’t blow off half the game. By blow off I don’t mean Steph doesn’t play D. I mean when comparing you have to acknowledge a great defender vs a pretty average defender.
The most dangerous player to have played the game was Wilt. Wilt also was the most dominant player, which is not to say the best because comparing across the different eras is very difficult. If you saw Wilt, you know.
Wilt changed the game too but in different ways than Steph: Rules were changed due to Wilt but Steph influenced the way the next generation plays the game, so I won't argue that point.
All that matters is your overall impact on the game. An exception can be made if you are so bad at one end that you are able to be played off the floor in the playoffs but that doesn't apply to Curry so it is irrelevant.
To use a made up example, if Player A is a +10 on offense and a +5 on defense, and Player B is a +7 on offense and a +7 on defense, then Player A is a +15 and Player B is a +14 despite Player B being more well-rounded.
If you think Curry is the most impactful player then that's a boon to Curry's GOAT argument imo.
Isn’t the general consensus that offense if more valuable than defense?
If GP2 is a 10 on defense and a 2 or 3 on offense, would he ever be considered as valuable as someone like Ja (personal issues aside) who’s the other way around?
What I mean by impactful is he is responsible for thousands of kids trying to become great 3 point shooters and was someone they could relate too vs relating to someone who can dunk from the 3 point line.
I cannot say that Steph is better than MJ because he isn’t in my opinion. He is very different. MJ even averaged more points without shooting 3’s.
The only advantage I see with Steph is he is capable of scoring a bunch of points in a hurry because he can go off on 3’s.
MJ scored and averaged a lot more points and was clearly a better player when you look at the complete picture.
Jordan definitely has a strong case for GOAT
> but you can’t blow off half the game
I wouldn't say three point shooting is half the game, but it's probably... 20% of the game? And Jordan blew it off. Just sayin.
So are you saying Curry is better than MJ?
He’s a better shooter, passer, ball handler, and screener, and has more gravity. And he’s a better person.
So sure he’s better at several relevant things than. MJ.
Ok.
What is MJ better at out of curiosity?
size and athleticism
Which you add to his perfect fundamentals and competitiveness and you have the goat in my opinion.
Google Curry vs Jordan career stats and I was surprised at how big the difference is.
I think it is easy to get hung up on the 3 point shooting but what is important on offense is the scoring. MJ scored a lot more and he did it in an era where defenses were allowed to be a lot more physical. I still remember a young MJ going for 65 or so in a playoff in Boston vs that great Celtics team, before he won anything.
It is all just opinion and each person has their own goat and that is all that matters, right? It is fun to talk about, but it is just personal preference.Steph is by far my favorite player of all time, just not my goat.
And I wouldn't say Steph blew off playing defense either... by the time his career is over, people will have finally acknowledged that he's actually a half decent defender, especially so in the back half of his career after he put on some more muscle.
I recall that at least in the playoffs LeBron's numbers when defended by Curry were terrible...so if you can shut down the (2nd) best player of all time, seems like the defense might be pretty good...
Yeah, great point, Steph arguably works HARDER than Jordan on D to make up for his lack of physical gifts on that side of the ball. Playing D during the Illegal Defense era was both harder (crazy arcane rules nobody really understood) and easier (most of it was one on one as opposed to all of the switching and help defense required in this era).
There wasn’t as much switching because there wasn’t that much screening like today. Teams still played help defense. Remember the Jordan Rules?
Apricot rocking a 4/5 80% winning percentage with a +34 plus/minus (+6.8pp) is some GOAT level stuff.
Easy to get votes when you can threaten a ban.
More importantly, anyone who upvotes me gets 1% off at the Apricot Gift Shoppe
And buying votes, typical. How many bots you got on this site?!!! RIGGED! SAD!
Most sports sites (like good old GSOM and every other site with a bajillion ads) make money per ad view, but sadly I make $0.00 on every click. So bots wouldn't help me. Otherwise, the whole comment section would be replaced by 4 python scripts.
No discount in the world is going to move those 500 units of Quinten Post figurines in an orange spandex jumpsuit.
I got carried away with the bulk rate at bobbleheads.com.
But I'll eventually unload them by throwing a free QP Kewpie doll into every delivery, whether it was requested or not. I'll also send them to people who didn't buy from the Gift Shoppe
Make it kewpie mayo and you got yourself a deal!