The Warriors draft picks are not the problem. Steve Kerr is the problem. Kuminga averaged the most pts per 36 min than any other rookie his first season. He averaged over 20pts per 36 min the last 3 months of this season while shooting nearly 60% FG and over 40% from 3. He also earned accolades around the league for guarding and often shutting down the other teams best players. He is one of the more athletically gifted forwards I've seen, and there is a reason other teams want him so badly. Wiseman averaged around 18 and 12 per 36 min since joining the Pistions. Both players have enough raw talent to become all stars in a few years. The fact that Kerr couldn't find a way for these guys to contribute is mind boggling. As we saw in the playoffs with Kuminga, he didn't even want to try. He decided he'd rather lose his way than even give Kuminga a chance. I love Kerr to death. But this was extremely disappointing.
trump needs quit kissing hitler erdogan's butt...oops, sorry, wrong thread....but, yeah, i agree with sleepy, that was one hell of a trade that got us andre and got rid of those two stiffs...hi, guys...bubble gum bball is on...we just averted a war between greeks and turks where i am at...for the time being, anyway....hope everyone made it through virus ok...stay safe...
Neither of those guys were very good when we had them. I remember some of the same criticism when Linsanity was going - but he just was not the same player while we had him on the roster.
Both of the players you mentioned were intriguing, but neither one was really able to meaningfully crack the rotation here. I don't see that as a front office failure as much as a professional athlete working hard and getting better.
Jul 28, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball
This looks like an incredibly interesting exercise. Some people say that we can't draft without Jerry West (who is fantastic), so this is going to be particularly interesting. Myers has demonstrated an ability to navigate the cap + secure assets + identify undervalued free agents but he hasn't done the same when it comes to scouting college draft picks. That's something I would love to learn more about.
I think a lot of people forget that Myers forté is finances. Being a successful agent, he knew the players and the kind of negotiations needed to secure them. Picking and scouting talent, I'd be guessing saying that he is the sole voice for the Warriors. He may be the final voice, but they have not impressed me with their choices. More bust than boom, so far. The draft is such a crap shoot, especially with the late 1st round and 2nd round picks. A lot of the success that draft choices have is the team and their coach that slots them into a position they can flourish in. DLO is a great example of a talent that was/is not compatible with the Warrior brand of Kerr. Of course, DLO was not a draft choice but the principle works the same way. Paschall is someone who is fitting into the mix. If he develops his 3, watch out. Everyone else is on the table.
D-Lo's acquisition wasn't about fit. It was an opportunistic asset play. They talked a good game about wanting to keep him, and had I think had an open mind, but it was obvious they knew they could flip him.
They did know he could be flipped and that was part of the decision. They were also hoping his 20+ppg would help fill the void left by KD and Klay. It was a smart play no matter how we view it. And, then Curry..............injured!!
Jul 27, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
Ooh, can’t wait for this.
One caveat worth noting: three of the Warriors’ six first-rounders in this era were shipped off in the epic deal that got them the cap space to sign Iguodala in exchange for the theretofore totally untradeable contracts of Biedrins and Brandon Rush. I kinda feel like that needs to be factored into any grade we give them.
Why? Surely if we are evaluating the statement that we shortened our dynastic run with poor drafting, the fact that we traded some of those assets for Iggy doesn't seem relevant in evaluating our ability to draft productive players. That knowledge seems useful in the larger context, but not necessarily to this question?
It’s relevant if we’re comparing their drafting acumen to that of other NBA dynasties, many of whom had a first round pick every year. Picks in the #28-30 range are long shots to begin with, and the Ws (thanks to bad contracts handed out by the previous regime) had half as many bites at the apple as some of those other teams. To their credit, they shelled out big money for second-rounders to fill the gaps, but those are even longer shots than #28-30 picks.
Generally. I think the premise that they “ruined the dynasty” by drafting poorly is totally ridiculous. You’re lucky if you get an NBA player drafting that low. Evans was a bust, but those happen more often than not. Overall I think Looney, Paschall, Poole, and Smailagic (with Chriss, Lee, Mulder, Bowman as scrap-heap finds) is a perfectly okay group of young’uns given where they’ve been picking.
Call me crazy, but I think the injuries to Klay and KD, the departure of KD, and the later injury to Steph might have had a bit more to do with the demise of the dynasty than the fact that they drafted Damian Jones over Deyonta Davis or Ivica Zubac in the crapshoot that is the late first round. Absent the injuries and the KD mutiny, they’d still be the best team in the league right now by a wide margin.
If I were going to get on them for a dumb move during the dynastic era, I’d much sooner point to (1) playing Varejao and broken Ezeli instead of Leandro and Shaun in 2016 Game 7, (2) letting McGee walk at the end if 2018 and pursuing Cousins, and/or (3) leaving Damion Lee off the 2019 playoff roster than I would any of the late draft picks. Absent those three poor decisions, we might be talking about the team as five-time defending champs, imperfect drafting notwithstanding.
Did the Dubs "let McGee walk"? I think they expected him to get a much better offer - in the end he got the same money but a lot more exposure. I'm looking forward to the series to see who the Dubs might have picked instead of the guys they got.
He almost certainly would have stayed had they offered him the full MLE. Instead their wandering eye landed on Boogie. I can’t get on them too hard for it since I was excited by the Boogie signing at the time, but in retrospect it looks like a bad move. JaVale fit the team better, would have been healthy all season, and I think would have mitigated at least some of the annoying drama that hung over the team throughout the 18-19 season.
I can't disagree with Sleepy in thinking that it is not so much the draft choices, although they are guilty of making some pretty questionable ones, but the sudden departure of KD, the injuries taking its toll, and the subsequent exodus/retirement of support players and the forced trade of Iggy. It was a domino effect that left the Warriors reeling from the blow that KD inflicted on them. Parting ways with Jerry West also didn't help them but I don't think that it is a key issue. The allure of the Warriors were always the core and KD. Players wanted in on the dynasty like bees to honey. Now, not only are they trying to fill a roster, but they are strapped financially to do so. Bad luck can also be a factor.
The Warriors draft picks are not the problem. Steve Kerr is the problem. Kuminga averaged the most pts per 36 min than any other rookie his first season. He averaged over 20pts per 36 min the last 3 months of this season while shooting nearly 60% FG and over 40% from 3. He also earned accolades around the league for guarding and often shutting down the other teams best players. He is one of the more athletically gifted forwards I've seen, and there is a reason other teams want him so badly. Wiseman averaged around 18 and 12 per 36 min since joining the Pistions. Both players have enough raw talent to become all stars in a few years. The fact that Kerr couldn't find a way for these guys to contribute is mind boggling. As we saw in the playoffs with Kuminga, he didn't even want to try. He decided he'd rather lose his way than even give Kuminga a chance. I love Kerr to death. But this was extremely disappointing.
the links to this dont work anymore
Fixed!
trump needs quit kissing hitler erdogan's butt...oops, sorry, wrong thread....but, yeah, i agree with sleepy, that was one hell of a trade that got us andre and got rid of those two stiffs...hi, guys...bubble gum bball is on...we just averted a war between greeks and turks where i am at...for the time being, anyway....hope everyone made it through virus ok...stay safe...
More interesting to me is the failure to keep promising young talent who later proved valuable (specifically Chris Boucher and Kendrick Nunn)
Neither of those guys were very good when we had them. I remember some of the same criticism when Linsanity was going - but he just was not the same player while we had him on the roster.
Both of the players you mentioned were intriguing, but neither one was really able to meaningfully crack the rotation here. I don't see that as a front office failure as much as a professional athlete working hard and getting better.
I don’t know but I sure wish they drafted BOL BOL right now
I’ll wait to see him in a real game before I go to the ledge
I mean I know smailagic is young and he had a few moments but Bol Bol just looks like he belongs hope I’m wrong
This looks like an incredibly interesting exercise. Some people say that we can't draft without Jerry West (who is fantastic), so this is going to be particularly interesting. Myers has demonstrated an ability to navigate the cap + secure assets + identify undervalued free agents but he hasn't done the same when it comes to scouting college draft picks. That's something I would love to learn more about.
I think a lot of people forget that Myers forté is finances. Being a successful agent, he knew the players and the kind of negotiations needed to secure them. Picking and scouting talent, I'd be guessing saying that he is the sole voice for the Warriors. He may be the final voice, but they have not impressed me with their choices. More bust than boom, so far. The draft is such a crap shoot, especially with the late 1st round and 2nd round picks. A lot of the success that draft choices have is the team and their coach that slots them into a position they can flourish in. DLO is a great example of a talent that was/is not compatible with the Warrior brand of Kerr. Of course, DLO was not a draft choice but the principle works the same way. Paschall is someone who is fitting into the mix. If he develops his 3, watch out. Everyone else is on the table.
D-Lo's acquisition wasn't about fit. It was an opportunistic asset play. They talked a good game about wanting to keep him, and had I think had an open mind, but it was obvious they knew they could flip him.
They did know he could be flipped and that was part of the decision. They were also hoping his 20+ppg would help fill the void left by KD and Klay. It was a smart play no matter how we view it. And, then Curry..............injured!!
West was there when the Warriors drafted Jones and McCaw. So to compare before/after Jerry leaving was really just Bell, Evans and last year's picks.
this is shaping up to be awesome. Very curious about the draft quality measurement
Ooh, can’t wait for this.
One caveat worth noting: three of the Warriors’ six first-rounders in this era were shipped off in the epic deal that got them the cap space to sign Iguodala in exchange for the theretofore totally untradeable contracts of Biedrins and Brandon Rush. I kinda feel like that needs to be factored into any grade we give them.
Why? Surely if we are evaluating the statement that we shortened our dynastic run with poor drafting, the fact that we traded some of those assets for Iggy doesn't seem relevant in evaluating our ability to draft productive players. That knowledge seems useful in the larger context, but not necessarily to this question?
It’s relevant if we’re comparing their drafting acumen to that of other NBA dynasties, many of whom had a first round pick every year. Picks in the #28-30 range are long shots to begin with, and the Ws (thanks to bad contracts handed out by the previous regime) had half as many bites at the apple as some of those other teams. To their credit, they shelled out big money for second-rounders to fill the gaps, but those are even longer shots than #28-30 picks.
Generally. I think the premise that they “ruined the dynasty” by drafting poorly is totally ridiculous. You’re lucky if you get an NBA player drafting that low. Evans was a bust, but those happen more often than not. Overall I think Looney, Paschall, Poole, and Smailagic (with Chriss, Lee, Mulder, Bowman as scrap-heap finds) is a perfectly okay group of young’uns given where they’ve been picking.
Call me crazy, but I think the injuries to Klay and KD, the departure of KD, and the later injury to Steph might have had a bit more to do with the demise of the dynasty than the fact that they drafted Damian Jones over Deyonta Davis or Ivica Zubac in the crapshoot that is the late first round. Absent the injuries and the KD mutiny, they’d still be the best team in the league right now by a wide margin.
If I were going to get on them for a dumb move during the dynastic era, I’d much sooner point to (1) playing Varejao and broken Ezeli instead of Leandro and Shaun in 2016 Game 7, (2) letting McGee walk at the end if 2018 and pursuing Cousins, and/or (3) leaving Damion Lee off the 2019 playoff roster than I would any of the late draft picks. Absent those three poor decisions, we might be talking about the team as five-time defending champs, imperfect drafting notwithstanding.
Did the Dubs "let McGee walk"? I think they expected him to get a much better offer - in the end he got the same money but a lot more exposure. I'm looking forward to the series to see who the Dubs might have picked instead of the guys they got.
He almost certainly would have stayed had they offered him the full MLE. Instead their wandering eye landed on Boogie. I can’t get on them too hard for it since I was excited by the Boogie signing at the time, but in retrospect it looks like a bad move. JaVale fit the team better, would have been healthy all season, and I think would have mitigated at least some of the annoying drama that hung over the team throughout the 18-19 season.
I can't disagree with Sleepy in thinking that it is not so much the draft choices, although they are guilty of making some pretty questionable ones, but the sudden departure of KD, the injuries taking its toll, and the subsequent exodus/retirement of support players and the forced trade of Iggy. It was a domino effect that left the Warriors reeling from the blow that KD inflicted on them. Parting ways with Jerry West also didn't help them but I don't think that it is a key issue. The allure of the Warriors were always the core and KD. Players wanted in on the dynasty like bees to honey. Now, not only are they trying to fill a roster, but they are strapped financially to do so. Bad luck can also be a factor.
EPIC SERIES ALERT
I've read that Looney is 100% and ready for next season. Fake news? I find it hard to believe given his history.