Off topic, are we using Belly right? At this point, he's either shooting a 3 or pump faking a defender (who is usually 6 feet away) and trying to drive and either make a play at the rim or pass out to a shooter with mixed results. The Warriors always had success with guys like Bogut, West & Zaza running DHOs and passing out of the high post, or more precisely, the elbow. Belly can pass and he's big enough to set a decent screen. What this does is put him inside the 3 point line, allowing for player movement, and 3 point threats, on the top side (vs. him catching 3 feet outside the line which impedes player movement over the top). He is closer to the the rim for a roll should the lane open up (vs. him making a rim run from 26 ft out). And he closes the gap for making an interior pass for a cutter (vs. finding a cutter and making a good pass from 26 ft out). Point is, by thinking of him solely as a Stretch Big whose value is based mostly on his 3 point shooting, I feel like we are taking him out of actions that were part of the Warriors DNA. And he has the size and passing skills to do the job. We never really had a stretch big, but did well enough without one. In Belly's case, in half court sets, I think he should move inside the 3 point line, play that traditional cog in the machine that our centers always have, and get his 3s by moving out from inside, rather than always starting from outside which really isn't working. Anywho, just an observation.
I'm really liking this suggestion with one proviso: can Bjeli hit the midrange? Passing out of the high post to cutters is clearly a good option that we're lacking when Draymond is off the floor. When defenders sag off the passer to cut off the action, the midrange opens up. DWest was deadly with that option, and if Bjeli has a reliable shot inside the arc we have another options to get a shot off when the initial action breaks down.. Granted it's worth less than a pop-out three, but still 2 > 0. I also liked that hook shot Bjeli broke out last game - it looked practiced and smooth.
It's not the top of key Draymond action, but the old Bogut(other big) action from the elbow while Draymond on floor. When Belly is receiving the ball now, he is primarily getting it beyond the 3 point line setting him up as a 3 point threat. What I am saying is that he should be focusing on screens, DHOs, etc (ala Looney), first, so when the ball gets in his hands on the inside 3 elbow, the team is more of a threat (shooters moving behind him, a shorter roll to the basket should both defenders jump a shooter off a screen, a shorter pass to a weak side back cut). When Belly has the ball in Draymond's stomping grounds (above circle elbow to elbow), he is a bit of a threat from 3, but the rest of the offense grinds to a screeching halt, because its 5 defenders on 4 all in front of Belly. (Okay for Draymond, he's a superior passer) Anywho, I just believe if Belly were to follow in Looney's footsteps, literally doing what our traditional non-shooting bigs used to do, the Warriors offense would be better and he would still get his 3s (by stepping out into empty space when space inevitably opens up). I think they are thinking "he's a 3 point shooter" so he keeps getting the ball outside the 3 like he is Kyle Korver. I want him to play like a big first, and let the 3s come to him.
Season starting to go sideways… hope it turns back around after the ASB, but I’m expecting a bunch more scuffling through then. If they go 7-5, they’ll be at 41-18, which is still a 57 win pace… get Steph right, Dray back, and Klay up to speed, and go use those last 23 games to gel. And heck, maybe Wiseman plays!
The biggest and the only thing I am worried about is what if Dray has to get surgery. Does that end his season and essentially our POs chase?
At the start of the season, I had said that BB Gods have had their pound of flesh from Steph (one season) and Klay (two seasons) and that I feared that Dray is next. Hopefully I am wrong.
Per our DNHQ surgeon, back surgery for a bulging/herniated disk is a 6w recovery process. So if that's indeed the problem, and signs do point to that, it's a 6w recovery after surgery, so ~mid-March. That said, according to the DNHQ head of surgery, a decent percentage of bulging disks do recover with non-surgical treatment.
So desperate was I on a night when the Dubs weren't playing that I watched Utah's reserves play Phoenix. Incredibly entertaining, so very -- I got to see Bismack Biyombo and Hassan Whiteside exchange missed free throws and Chris Paul do two successful rip-throughs. If you don't like that, you like NBA basketball.
Settle down everyone… this is the equivalent of no nut November. Steph has been saving his load and the sky had to heal up some after the last ravaging.
As a one-day fan (actually two-day) of the Jazz (when they play the Suns) I am horrified by their B-list lineup yet they are only two points down at halftime. Go Rudy Gay sure you're incredibly old but I've been a big fan since your ABA days.
I am firmly of the belief that this injury is unfortunately related to the Wiseman pick and the heavy wear and tear they've put on Draymond as a result. 44% and 33% of Draymond's non-garbage time minutes at center in the last two seasons.
If Lacob cares about this season (and perhaps he doesn't, at least not more than he cares about the "future"), he needs to get a center because the season seems headed on a dangerous trajectory without one imo. Hopefully it's not too late given the Draymond situation, perhaps the damage is already done because this report is not reassuring.
This very closely mirrors my thoughts and is (maybe?) my only real gripe about the FO right now.
Even if their plan really was to have Wiseman eat most of the minutes at the 5 this season, which I think is sketch anyway, we're seeing that Kerr doesn't even like to have Kuminga playing much in important games. And I think it's fair to say Kuminga has a much simpler role on this team than Wiseman did and would.
Would've been nice to have been in the position to not play Dray at the 5 much at all during the regular season.
I'm not sure honestly but back injuries are usually tricky. We can still make the playoffs without him but I doubt we'll do anything significant like at least making it out of the West.
Jan 25, 2022·edited Jan 25, 2022Liked by punk basketball
Those were curated snippets. We really have no idea what was being attempted along with corresponding successes and failures, or how any of it stacks up to previous practices, for which we also got mostly curated snippets.
I'm not really a person of faith, not very religious or even particularly spiritual. I do believe in Threezus though, and will gladly proselytize on his behalf. I get that watching our MVP and the greatest shooter of all time go through this tough stretch has been hard to watch and leaves fans wanting for answers. The recent hand injury stuff aside (which I hope is not serious), I just can't say that I'm terribly worried about him regaining his regular Steph form. He's given us far more reasons to believe in him than doubt him. If it's fatigue-related, Kerr and the coaching staff will adjust. If it's something mechanical, that will be worked out by Steph and his trainers. Just take a deep breath and let's remember who we are talking about here... a man who the Chinese call Sky fucker. A man made of magic and gold.
Maybe it's mental and not physical. Maybe he's bored or lonely without Dray/Klay. Maybe he's more interested in golf. What I do know is that Kerr has to adjust the team's play taking this into consideration and he seems to be willing to do this. Less minutes for Curry, using Looney more in the paint as well as Porter/Bjelica. Giving a rookie meaningful playing time when the rookie still kind of stinks. He's trying and if the support players execute like they did against Utah, the problem is minimized because this is a team sport. We should be happy that the situation is not worse than it is. Plus, Curry has not lost the rest of his game. He still passes, runs the floor, rebounds, and is a general nuisance to defenders.
It is the very faith I have in him, the worshipful adoration, that itself leads me to worry. When gods wobble, their faithful followers gasp, stricken. I really really want to believe that all is fine but the evidence lately is: it's not. That does not tell us what happens next but I think it's completely in line with the given information to be worried.
Agreed completely. Just to clarify: I am not *requiring* evidence, I am *yearning* for it. That's how a believer approaches it: believe, but be heartened by evidence.
I said this in the last thread but since it was around the time of its obsolescence, I'm repeating it here:
I do not believe the sky is falling. Aside from nerves related to Klay whom I hope is okay, I feel very peaceful about this season and Steph and Dray and everything else. Maybe I'm the nuts one.
Yeah, every season has its ups and downs. We have months to get healthy, rested, tested, and improve our team free throw shooting. Let's call Rick Barry and get the whole team (aside from Curry & Poole) shooting underhanded all the way to the title. When Curry is torching the league again in March-June, no one will care about his current slump.
About that underhand foul shot. Rick Barry hit 90+ percent which clearly makes it a great way to shoot, right? However, Rick Barry was one of the best shooters of all time, meaning had he shot FTs like nearly everyone else, 90+ percent was almost a given shooting that way as well. Thus I don't see clear evidence of underhand being any better (or worse.)
Obviously a little tongue in cheek. But a quick look at Wiggs, he can take a serious step up the quality ladder just by improving his FTs. He's at that point where there are times you know he could get to the rim and get fouled, but shows reluctance to do so because his FT% is bad. So he opts for these 6 foot push shots, rather than push for contact. A Wiggs at 80%+ FT getting to the line 4 more times a game would really put him up a level.
No doubt. However, I always struggled with hitting free throws and tried my best to shoot underhanded, read the books, really concentrated, and....I was still bad. A bad shooter (me) is a bad shooter.
I'm with you. Back in October, did anyone out there honestly believe we'd be 34-13 at this point in the season? Yes, it's been a bit of a rough patch but if we get the bodies back, we're gonna be pretty tough. Hopefully Steph's hand(s) are OK. More worried about Dray's back than anything else, though.
Off topic, are we using Belly right? At this point, he's either shooting a 3 or pump faking a defender (who is usually 6 feet away) and trying to drive and either make a play at the rim or pass out to a shooter with mixed results. The Warriors always had success with guys like Bogut, West & Zaza running DHOs and passing out of the high post, or more precisely, the elbow. Belly can pass and he's big enough to set a decent screen. What this does is put him inside the 3 point line, allowing for player movement, and 3 point threats, on the top side (vs. him catching 3 feet outside the line which impedes player movement over the top). He is closer to the the rim for a roll should the lane open up (vs. him making a rim run from 26 ft out). And he closes the gap for making an interior pass for a cutter (vs. finding a cutter and making a good pass from 26 ft out). Point is, by thinking of him solely as a Stretch Big whose value is based mostly on his 3 point shooting, I feel like we are taking him out of actions that were part of the Warriors DNA. And he has the size and passing skills to do the job. We never really had a stretch big, but did well enough without one. In Belly's case, in half court sets, I think he should move inside the 3 point line, play that traditional cog in the machine that our centers always have, and get his 3s by moving out from inside, rather than always starting from outside which really isn't working. Anywho, just an observation.
I'm really liking this suggestion with one proviso: can Bjeli hit the midrange? Passing out of the high post to cutters is clearly a good option that we're lacking when Draymond is off the floor. When defenders sag off the passer to cut off the action, the midrange opens up. DWest was deadly with that option, and if Bjeli has a reliable shot inside the arc we have another options to get a shot off when the initial action breaks down.. Granted it's worth less than a pop-out three, but still 2 > 0. I also liked that hook shot Bjeli broke out last game - it looked practiced and smooth.
he should be, and every Warrior needs to be working on the their mid range games. the 3 or drive game is getting old
It's not the top of key Draymond action, but the old Bogut(other big) action from the elbow while Draymond on floor. When Belly is receiving the ball now, he is primarily getting it beyond the 3 point line setting him up as a 3 point threat. What I am saying is that he should be focusing on screens, DHOs, etc (ala Looney), first, so when the ball gets in his hands on the inside 3 elbow, the team is more of a threat (shooters moving behind him, a shorter roll to the basket should both defenders jump a shooter off a screen, a shorter pass to a weak side back cut). When Belly has the ball in Draymond's stomping grounds (above circle elbow to elbow), he is a bit of a threat from 3, but the rest of the offense grinds to a screeching halt, because its 5 defenders on 4 all in front of Belly. (Okay for Draymond, he's a superior passer) Anywho, I just believe if Belly were to follow in Looney's footsteps, literally doing what our traditional non-shooting bigs used to do, the Warriors offense would be better and he would still get his 3s (by stepping out into empty space when space inevitably opens up). I think they are thinking "he's a 3 point shooter" so he keeps getting the ball outside the 3 like he is Kyle Korver. I want him to play like a big first, and let the 3s come to him.
crazy chart work Duby!
Great analysis D-Cube. Did you chart 3-game or 7-game rolling 3pt FG% average as well? Just curious to know what that looks like (removing the noise).
Season starting to go sideways… hope it turns back around after the ASB, but I’m expecting a bunch more scuffling through then. If they go 7-5, they’ll be at 41-18, which is still a 57 win pace… get Steph right, Dray back, and Klay up to speed, and go use those last 23 games to gel. And heck, maybe Wiseman plays!
The biggest and the only thing I am worried about is what if Dray has to get surgery. Does that end his season and essentially our POs chase?
At the start of the season, I had said that BB Gods have had their pound of flesh from Steph (one season) and Klay (two seasons) and that I feared that Dray is next. Hopefully I am wrong.
Per our DNHQ surgeon, back surgery for a bulging/herniated disk is a 6w recovery process. So if that's indeed the problem, and signs do point to that, it's a 6w recovery after surgery, so ~mid-March. That said, according to the DNHQ head of surgery, a decent percentage of bulging disks do recover with non-surgical treatment.
So desperate was I on a night when the Dubs weren't playing that I watched Utah's reserves play Phoenix. Incredibly entertaining, so very -- I got to see Bismack Biyombo and Hassan Whiteside exchange missed free throws and Chris Paul do two successful rip-throughs. If you don't like that, you like NBA basketball.
Yep I did the same. Had to consume alcohol
Go Jazz go. Up 2 with 3 min left in the third...
Settle down everyone… this is the equivalent of no nut November. Steph has been saving his load and the sky had to heal up some after the last ravaging.
No. I will not go quietly into the night. Because how I see it is ya gots ta rage, I say rage against both the machine and the dying of the light
As a one-day fan (actually two-day) of the Jazz (when they play the Suns) I am horrified by their B-list lineup yet they are only two points down at halftime. Go Rudy Gay sure you're incredibly old but I've been a big fan since your ABA days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh1sYzLjUtk
Marc Spears saying Draymond's absence could probably be extended past his reevaluation next week
I am firmly of the belief that this injury is unfortunately related to the Wiseman pick and the heavy wear and tear they've put on Draymond as a result. 44% and 33% of Draymond's non-garbage time minutes at center in the last two seasons.
If Lacob cares about this season (and perhaps he doesn't, at least not more than he cares about the "future"), he needs to get a center because the season seems headed on a dangerous trajectory without one imo. Hopefully it's not too late given the Draymond situation, perhaps the damage is already done because this report is not reassuring.
This very closely mirrors my thoughts and is (maybe?) my only real gripe about the FO right now.
Even if their plan really was to have Wiseman eat most of the minutes at the 5 this season, which I think is sketch anyway, we're seeing that Kerr doesn't even like to have Kuminga playing much in important games. And I think it's fair to say Kuminga has a much simpler role on this team than Wiseman did and would.
Would've been nice to have been in the position to not play Dray at the 5 much at all during the regular season.
Phoenix picked up Biyombo when they've already got Ayton and Javale. Biyombo isn't Kareem but we could use a sturdy guy like that.
He should stay out till after ASB. If there is surgery, does that mean he is done for the season? And does that mean we are not making POs?
I'm not sure honestly but back injuries are usually tricky. We can still make the playoffs without him but I doubt we'll do anything significant like at least making it out of the West.
It's a bad disc I don't see how it could go quickly
I could definitely see it too. Something just doesn't feel right. Hope we get him back for the playoff run..
Pretty discouraging seeing Curry brick that many shots in practice without a defender on the court. Something is definitely not right.
I've never seen him miss in practice. It's either a failed experiment or the beginning of a useful change, but not the usual him
Those were curated snippets. We really have no idea what was being attempted along with corresponding successes and failures, or how any of it stacks up to previous practices, for which we also got mostly curated snippets.
I'm not really a person of faith, not very religious or even particularly spiritual. I do believe in Threezus though, and will gladly proselytize on his behalf. I get that watching our MVP and the greatest shooter of all time go through this tough stretch has been hard to watch and leaves fans wanting for answers. The recent hand injury stuff aside (which I hope is not serious), I just can't say that I'm terribly worried about him regaining his regular Steph form. He's given us far more reasons to believe in him than doubt him. If it's fatigue-related, Kerr and the coaching staff will adjust. If it's something mechanical, that will be worked out by Steph and his trainers. Just take a deep breath and let's remember who we are talking about here... a man who the Chinese call Sky fucker. A man made of magic and gold.
Maybe it's mental and not physical. Maybe he's bored or lonely without Dray/Klay. Maybe he's more interested in golf. What I do know is that Kerr has to adjust the team's play taking this into consideration and he seems to be willing to do this. Less minutes for Curry, using Looney more in the paint as well as Porter/Bjelica. Giving a rookie meaningful playing time when the rookie still kind of stinks. He's trying and if the support players execute like they did against Utah, the problem is minimized because this is a team sport. We should be happy that the situation is not worse than it is. Plus, Curry has not lost the rest of his game. He still passes, runs the floor, rebounds, and is a general nuisance to defenders.
It is the very faith I have in him, the worshipful adoration, that itself leads me to worry. When gods wobble, their faithful followers gasp, stricken. I really really want to believe that all is fine but the evidence lately is: it's not. That does not tell us what happens next but I think it's completely in line with the given information to be worried.
Belief is easy when you are given no reasons to doubt. Requiring evidence for your beliefs to be true is the exact opposite of having faith.
Agreed completely. Just to clarify: I am not *requiring* evidence, I am *yearning* for it. That's how a believer approaches it: believe, but be heartened by evidence.
I said this in the last thread but since it was around the time of its obsolescence, I'm repeating it here:
I do not believe the sky is falling. Aside from nerves related to Klay whom I hope is okay, I feel very peaceful about this season and Steph and Dray and everything else. Maybe I'm the nuts one.
Yeah, every season has its ups and downs. We have months to get healthy, rested, tested, and improve our team free throw shooting. Let's call Rick Barry and get the whole team (aside from Curry & Poole) shooting underhanded all the way to the title. When Curry is torching the league again in March-June, no one will care about his current slump.
About that underhand foul shot. Rick Barry hit 90+ percent which clearly makes it a great way to shoot, right? However, Rick Barry was one of the best shooters of all time, meaning had he shot FTs like nearly everyone else, 90+ percent was almost a given shooting that way as well. Thus I don't see clear evidence of underhand being any better (or worse.)
Obviously a little tongue in cheek. But a quick look at Wiggs, he can take a serious step up the quality ladder just by improving his FTs. He's at that point where there are times you know he could get to the rim and get fouled, but shows reluctance to do so because his FT% is bad. So he opts for these 6 foot push shots, rather than push for contact. A Wiggs at 80%+ FT getting to the line 4 more times a game would really put him up a level.
Ask George Johnson. Went from 50% to 80% under Barry's guidance.
No doubt. However, I always struggled with hitting free throws and tried my best to shoot underhanded, read the books, really concentrated, and....I was still bad. A bad shooter (me) is a bad shooter.
I'm with you. Back in October, did anyone out there honestly believe we'd be 34-13 at this point in the season? Yes, it's been a bit of a rough patch but if we get the bodies back, we're gonna be pretty tough. Hopefully Steph's hand(s) are OK. More worried about Dray's back than anything else, though.
https://www.nba.com/news/stephen-curry-perspective-january-slump