It's hard to watch the warriors shoot 3s and not even look for Wiseman when he is open and asking for the ball. Why did we draft him if we are not going to use his offensive ability ? The way the warriors play today with Curry hunting for his 3, he just doesn't fit with Wiseman. You can see Wiseman is lost when he plays with Curry. Should of selected a point guard so Curry can play the 2. We don't need a point center that poses no threat on offense. Today's league and rules sides with offense. Defense can only go so far if you can't come down the court and get a bucket.
Landing this here for posterity, but here's Bob Myers talking about what Wiseman and Curry were working on in practice the day we published this:
> On Wiseman:
> "Yesterday after practice he was working on a lot of pick-and-roll stuff with Curry. Just the nuances of the screen-and-roll. You'd be surprised how long that takes to figure out. - They really haven't even had a chance to work on so many of these little things."
The problem for the Warriors right now is that their defense is the one with new wrinkles in it, and not in a good way.
Two players who basically weren't in the rotation at all until just before the all-star break (Poole, Mannion) are now getting big minutes. Wiseman is also getting more minutes. All three of these guys are young and their defense—especially defensive rebounding—needs work. The last few teams we've played have been able to get a whole lot of easy shots with basic stuff: back-cuts, drive-and-kick, or just beating their defender 1-on-1 and then scoring before the help is in position.
My read is that the offensive falterings of this team are coming from the defensive failings more than the reverse. I don't think there's a short-term solution that doesn't involve trading Wiseman (in part because he's the one who'd likely net the most back in trade value) for more veteran players. The team seems pretty dead-set on being good in the long term, and any trades to improve the defense would basically have to be sacrificing the future, so I think the team is going to have to get better at defense the old-fashioned way: through effort and experience.
I just hope the pursuit of lasting greatness over immediate improvement doesn't end up costing us both.
It’s not a bad time to start making adjustments to the motion offense. Player experience aside (which I totally agree with - only really works with passing, savvy vets), as Steph & Klay get older they’re probably not going to want to run a marathon every offensive set. Having Steph & Klay zip around has worked wonders for tiring out opposition defenses, particularly over 7 games, but at some point they’re not going to want to keep putting this mileage through their legs.
May as well usher in the new era of GSW dynasty core + JDub and adjust the current offense to suit.
On a completely different note, I was looking into margin of victory and was shocked to see how well having a high MOV correlated with winning the NBA championship. From 2012 onwards, the eventual champions would have an average MOV of 2.1
Looking at this year, Utah, Milwaukee, Phoenix, and the Clippers are at the top of the list. However, injuries to AD/Lebron + KD (and all the new additions) probably have depressed Brooklyn/Lakers performance there. Still, its a fascinating thing to notice!
"When everyone is involved, touching the ball and cutting and screening, there's a magic that happens, there's something special where guys feel empowered, their defense gets better because they're involved."
I think this quote really demonstrates Kerr's dogmatism. Professional players (who know they're role players) don't stop playing defense if they're a catch and shoot guy on offense. I haven't seen any numbers on heliocentric offenses being bad at defending. Similarly, there is a lot to be said for restricting decision-making for players who are simply bad decision-makers. Maybe having a free-flowing offense is fine when you have Iguodala/Livingston/West, but it's a bit harder when you have Wiggins/Oubre/Wiseman. Insisting that we play in a similar manner (which goes against basically all of the top modern offenses in NBA history apart from us) with very different players is harming us despite its supposes "purity". The weird thing is that he acclimated to KD, but doesn't give the same respect to Steph on offense.
I feel the Warriors have reached the end of a cycle and now need a new coach to bring new life and ideas to the team. Sometimes after a lot of success, you have barren spells and need a new voice to get back to the level you need to be at. The best example I can think of is Rafa Nadal changing his coach in 2017, despite being ridiculously successful.
The midrange is a huge space. Midrange shots may be low percentage, but it's also relatively easy to get open looks from midrange. For players like Livingston, Klay Thompson, and especially Kevin Durant, who can shoot over 50% from midrange, this is valuable.
Look at the Warriors shot distribution from those glory years. What's remarkable about it isn't 3 pointers. It's that the Warriors took relatively fewer shots at the rim and lots of shots from midrange. Moreover, the Warriors were far more accurate from midrange than any other NBA team.
It's very hard to defend a team that can shoot from literally anywhere. It's much easier to defend a team that only shoots from 3 or at the rim.
What's missing this year is that the Warriors don't have high percentage midrange shooters anymore, except Curry. This means they are again reliant on getting to the rim or shooting from 3.
I've been complaining about the same stagnation in Kerr for a couple of years, now, 3D. He doesn't adapt well and some of the onus is on him. But, the Warriors have always had shooters that executed that they could rely on like Splash Bros, KD, Speights and West off the bench. Livingston was money with his mismatched defenders and mid range shooting. Plus, as you say, boards lead to transition points but they have no rebounders that are significant anymore. Lots of holes in this team that hopefully will be fixed next season with the return of Klay and new additions.
Livingston and Igoudala were inconsistent scorers at best. Wiggins and Oubre are much better. Wiseman just needs to be a better screen roll player. A lot of his screens are missed by the guard leaving room for easy switches. The motion offense worked a lot better with KD who could createe his own shot. Oubre and Wiggins are better slashers, but can they pass to a rolling Wiseman or Looney? Kerr's offense is great when the W's are getting turnovers, and breakaway layups. This is why the inability to rebound opponents' misses (especially long RB's off missed threes) has removed some of their fast break game.
Duby, we now know the Ws coaching staff sneaked in here and read this article, evident by how they played last night.
It's hard to watch the warriors shoot 3s and not even look for Wiseman when he is open and asking for the ball. Why did we draft him if we are not going to use his offensive ability ? The way the warriors play today with Curry hunting for his 3, he just doesn't fit with Wiseman. You can see Wiseman is lost when he plays with Curry. Should of selected a point guard so Curry can play the 2. We don't need a point center that poses no threat on offense. Today's league and rules sides with offense. Defense can only go so far if you can't come down the court and get a bucket.
I'd be interested to see how our passes per possession ranks
Also, great article Duby
Landing this here for posterity, but here's Bob Myers talking about what Wiseman and Curry were working on in practice the day we published this:
> On Wiseman:
> "Yesterday after practice he was working on a lot of pick-and-roll stuff with Curry. Just the nuances of the screen-and-roll. You'd be surprised how long that takes to figure out. - They really haven't even had a chance to work on so many of these little things."
https://twitter.com/GSWReddit/status/1376571438690234371?s=19
The problem for the Warriors right now is that their defense is the one with new wrinkles in it, and not in a good way.
Two players who basically weren't in the rotation at all until just before the all-star break (Poole, Mannion) are now getting big minutes. Wiseman is also getting more minutes. All three of these guys are young and their defense—especially defensive rebounding—needs work. The last few teams we've played have been able to get a whole lot of easy shots with basic stuff: back-cuts, drive-and-kick, or just beating their defender 1-on-1 and then scoring before the help is in position.
My read is that the offensive falterings of this team are coming from the defensive failings more than the reverse. I don't think there's a short-term solution that doesn't involve trading Wiseman (in part because he's the one who'd likely net the most back in trade value) for more veteran players. The team seems pretty dead-set on being good in the long term, and any trades to improve the defense would basically have to be sacrificing the future, so I think the team is going to have to get better at defense the old-fashioned way: through effort and experience.
I just hope the pursuit of lasting greatness over immediate improvement doesn't end up costing us both.
Well written. I think at least until Klay gets back it is necessary.
It’s not a bad time to start making adjustments to the motion offense. Player experience aside (which I totally agree with - only really works with passing, savvy vets), as Steph & Klay get older they’re probably not going to want to run a marathon every offensive set. Having Steph & Klay zip around has worked wonders for tiring out opposition defenses, particularly over 7 games, but at some point they’re not going to want to keep putting this mileage through their legs.
May as well usher in the new era of GSW dynasty core + JDub and adjust the current offense to suit.
On a completely different note, I was looking into margin of victory and was shocked to see how well having a high MOV correlated with winning the NBA championship. From 2012 onwards, the eventual champions would have an average MOV of 2.1
Looking at this year, Utah, Milwaukee, Phoenix, and the Clippers are at the top of the list. However, injuries to AD/Lebron + KD (and all the new additions) probably have depressed Brooklyn/Lakers performance there. Still, its a fascinating thing to notice!
The most on the money article of the year. Nice one!
"When everyone is involved, touching the ball and cutting and screening, there's a magic that happens, there's something special where guys feel empowered, their defense gets better because they're involved."
I think this quote really demonstrates Kerr's dogmatism. Professional players (who know they're role players) don't stop playing defense if they're a catch and shoot guy on offense. I haven't seen any numbers on heliocentric offenses being bad at defending. Similarly, there is a lot to be said for restricting decision-making for players who are simply bad decision-makers. Maybe having a free-flowing offense is fine when you have Iguodala/Livingston/West, but it's a bit harder when you have Wiggins/Oubre/Wiseman. Insisting that we play in a similar manner (which goes against basically all of the top modern offenses in NBA history apart from us) with very different players is harming us despite its supposes "purity". The weird thing is that he acclimated to KD, but doesn't give the same respect to Steph on offense.
I feel the Warriors have reached the end of a cycle and now need a new coach to bring new life and ideas to the team. Sometimes after a lot of success, you have barren spells and need a new voice to get back to the level you need to be at. The best example I can think of is Rafa Nadal changing his coach in 2017, despite being ridiculously successful.
😆 https://www.instagram.com/p/CM6CqhrFE6E/?igshid=1jweh1rdw61td
If we miss the playoffs and get min pick this year. Who you guys taking? Let’s say we have 4th and 10th pick.
The midrange is a huge space. Midrange shots may be low percentage, but it's also relatively easy to get open looks from midrange. For players like Livingston, Klay Thompson, and especially Kevin Durant, who can shoot over 50% from midrange, this is valuable.
Look at the Warriors shot distribution from those glory years. What's remarkable about it isn't 3 pointers. It's that the Warriors took relatively fewer shots at the rim and lots of shots from midrange. Moreover, the Warriors were far more accurate from midrange than any other NBA team.
It's very hard to defend a team that can shoot from literally anywhere. It's much easier to defend a team that only shoots from 3 or at the rim.
What's missing this year is that the Warriors don't have high percentage midrange shooters anymore, except Curry. This means they are again reliant on getting to the rim or shooting from 3.
I've been complaining about the same stagnation in Kerr for a couple of years, now, 3D. He doesn't adapt well and some of the onus is on him. But, the Warriors have always had shooters that executed that they could rely on like Splash Bros, KD, Speights and West off the bench. Livingston was money with his mismatched defenders and mid range shooting. Plus, as you say, boards lead to transition points but they have no rebounders that are significant anymore. Lots of holes in this team that hopefully will be fixed next season with the return of Klay and new additions.
Livingston and Igoudala were inconsistent scorers at best. Wiggins and Oubre are much better. Wiseman just needs to be a better screen roll player. A lot of his screens are missed by the guard leaving room for easy switches. The motion offense worked a lot better with KD who could createe his own shot. Oubre and Wiggins are better slashers, but can they pass to a rolling Wiseman or Looney? Kerr's offense is great when the W's are getting turnovers, and breakaway layups. This is why the inability to rebound opponents' misses (especially long RB's off missed threes) has removed some of their fast break game.