"I'm looking forward to playing, but I'm on Kuminga, I'm on Moses Moody, and I'm on the young fellas," Iguodala said on his "Point Forward" podcast on Friday. "And I'm letting them know, 'Listen, if I get on this court, you ain't doing something right. There's no way you should allow me to get on the court.'
"And that's just something I'm feeding to those guys and making sure that when I walk away, everything's taken care of."
I think one question that will be really interesting is at what point JK and Wiseman can play together. Defensively, I don’t think they’re ready to play together yet. And offensively, they do a lot of the same stuff and limit each other’s spacing. But if you assume they both end up playing 15-20 min per night, they’re almost certainly going to play together. It’ll be an interesting process to watch…
This is one iteration that I hope everyone is anxious to see. Both these guys are s-tier, ultra max-level physically built for the modern NBA defensive side of the ball. If they can even remotely get bought in and “get it”, that’s a disgusting amount of talent. Here’s hoping that the development staff and these Ferraris have meshed well!
I think it'll be limited to garbage time to start. They're going to establish things that work and focus on racking wins. If they show some chemistry in garbage time it will stretch out.
Andre is gonna play. How many minutes and how many games is the only question. Last year, Kerr left him in some of the games for too long. He should not play more than 10 mins a game.
This is fun, and yes I’ve been thinking about it a bit. But, I think we are going to see a lot more lineups that mix the core 6 (Steph, Klay, Dray, Loon, Wiggs, JP) with Wiseman, JK and Moody. All kinds of permutations. Wiseman, JK, Wiggs, Klay, JP. Loon, Wiggs, Moody, JP, Steph. Wiseman, Dray, JK, JP, Steph. That kind of thing.
It has been 532 days since Wiseman's injury. I think because we have seen so little of him it feels longer than Klay's comeback. Shout out to anyone else who is in recovery in whatever capacity that is... You will always be worth it.
Now that Andre's roster spot is set, I couldn't help myself and started thinking about rotations and minutes. Obviously, y'all are doing the same as there's plenty of convo here about who's minutes Andre gets. So here's a pulled out of my ass guesstimate for minutes for a run-of-the-mill low-stakes regular season game, and a blow-out game, as well as minutes by position for each player.
RUN-OF-THE-MILL REG SEASON GAME - non-blowout
---
Steph: 30 min PG:30
Dray: 30 min PF:20, C:10
Klay: 30 min SG:20, SF:10
Wiggs: 32 min SF:22, PF:10
JP: 32 min PG:18,SG:14
Loon: 20 min C:20
Wise: 18 min C:18
MM: 13 min SG:4,SF:9
JK: 13 min PF:12, SF:1
DDV: 10 min SG:10
JMG: 6 min PF:6
Andre: 6 min SF: 6
RUN-OF-THE-MILL REG SEASON GAME - blowout
---
Steph: 24 min PG:24
Dray: 24 min C:3,PF:21
Klay: 24 min SG:18,SF:6
Wiggs: 28 min PF:3
JP: 28 min PG:20,SG:8
Loon: 20 min C:20
Wise: 22 min C:22
MM: 22 min SG:10,SF:12
JK: 22 min C:3,PF:18,SF:1
DDV: 12 min SG:12
JMG: 6 min PF:6
PBJ: 4 SF:4
RR: 4 PG:4
I'd also expect Kerr to take advantage of the schedule to not only rest the regulars on back-to-backs, but also regularly give one of the big 3 a random rest day off, and let the other 2 play. In those games, there should be an extra 30 minutes to go to the bench for the appropriate spots.
Finally, assuming there's a regular season must-win game (eg. Christmas vs the Grizz), and assuming Andre is the better option:
Regular Season MUST-WIN game
Steph: 34 min PG:34
Dray: 34 min PF:22, C:12
Klay: 34 min SG:22, SF:12
Wiggs: 36 min SF:20, PF:16
JP: 36 min PG:14,SG:22
Loon: 22 min C:22
Wise: 14 min C: 14
MM: 6 min SF:6
JK: 10 min PF:10
DDV: 4 min SG:4
Andre: 10 min SF:10
MOST INTERESTING TAKEAWAY:
----
In Must win-games, Dray will play more minutes at Center, obviously squeezing Wiseman. But an interesting by-product of that is that Wiggs and JK will have to play PF during those minutes where Dray is playing Center. That means that Andre, if he is the best player among the bench squad will be pushing Moody's minutes more than JK's minutes. Basically, when the Dubs play small, JK has to play PF, unless Andre wants to bang around as PF in those minutes (which I doubt). So it's Moody's minutes as a 3 that Andre takes away, and Moody's minutes as a 2 that increased play from Steph/Klay/JP will take away. I guess you could make the argument that MM could play the 4 in small-ball - something like a JP, DDV, Andre, MM, Dray lineup, but that just seems ... odd.
It effectively stalls out the competition for a full time roster spot. There's a very slight chance that one of the invites could impress enough to warrant signing them to the 15th roster spot. Last year, GP2 earned the 15th, but the team knew that it had a glaring hole in POA defense (and perhaps 3rd string ball-handler). They filled the POA defense role with GP2 and JP3 stepped up his ball-handling game to become 2nd-string PG while Chiozza stepped in for 3rd string ball-handling.
This year, there are no glaring holes that the roster needs. Perhaps wing depth, but that's what 2-ways are for. There's no rotation role available, and minutes will be scarce for the 12th and 13th roster spots (rooks), so any idea that a 15th man would earn meaningful minutes is silly.
So, realistically, I'd say there's less than a 3% chance that 15th spot gets filled before buyout season. However, the invites can still choose to be motivated by that 3%. Getting to the NBA is all about defying the odds against you, after all. So, TW or MmC have a choice to be demotivated or to fight for that 3% chance.
That being said, there are two 2-ways available. LQ is signed to one of them and QW has a QO for the other (I believe). I think QW will easily win any battle for one of the slots if he so chooses. And that would immediately fill the last remaining need on the roster (wing-depth). There is a small chance that he gets lured elsewhere and signs for a full roster spot, however. The remaining 2-way, I believe, is not LQ's. He may be signed to it right now, but things can change fairly quickly.
So, that's the real competition right there: Among two-way eligible players for the second 2-way slot. Mac McClung, if he chooses to settle for a 2-way, is eligible. LQ, obviously is a the nominal front-runner. Trevion Williams has a chance to win it out, as well. Remember that these guys are not only auditioning for a 2-way slot, but also for other teams who may be looking for a project for their remaining roster spots, too.
Does anyone know if any of the more recent roster invitees and signees are available to sign a two-way? My guess is at least a couple of them are eligible, so any that are can get thrown into the scrum for the two-way.
Vets that were invited to camp, but not eligible for a 2-way can be treated as roster filler for the spring training rosters. No doubt some of them, as well as those who don't end up securing that second 2-way slot will almost all be offered contracts with the Sea-Dubs. So, TW fans, don't despair. Even if he loses out the 2-way slot to LQ or MM, there's a good chance he stays connected with the team in SC. If he impresses there, the Dubs could very well decide to swap a 2-way contract to him, mid-season, to secure his rights.
Right - that's how he's currently signed. He will obviously be waived at this point, unless he pulls off the 3% and has an insane camp. Once waived, the Dubs could extend a 2-way to him, and if he has no 15-man offers, he could accept that. Last year, he was Rookie of the Year in the G-league, but I don't think he got any 2-way time at all last year and didn't play in the NBA, so it'd still be a step-up from last year.
Kinda hard NOT to juxtapose the Warriors' recent offseason announcements with the Celtics':
Warriors:
That young guy with a knee injury (Wiseman)? He's worked all offseason and he's ready to go! Those injured new guys we signed (PBJ, Rollins), they're fully ready for training camp! That old guy who spent a bunch of time on the bench (Iguodala)? He's coming back!
Celtics:
That young guy with a knee injury (Williams III)? Yeah... he needs surgery, gonna be out a while. That healthy new guy we signed (Gallo), he's injured and gonna miss the season. That old guy who spent a bunch of time on the bench (Udoka)? He's suspended (and probably fired)...
Agree. Personally I'm feeling that GS is going to get to deny James Harden and P J Tucker yet another championship this year. Although I'm open to the possibility that Giannis might do it for them.
Wow -- you think they'll be better than the Bucks?
I hear whispers of the Nets being really good with Ben Simmons finally ready to go. I think it would be awesome if they made the finals, and then Kyrie decided his head just wasn't right and he needed a break.
It's just a feeling. I don't think the 76er's are necessarily better to start, but I believe a lot in PJ Tucker's ability to keep Harden focused. Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday are in the running for best starting three in the East, but the Bucks' injury history hasn't been great and I don't see a ton of depth. I just can't bring myself to believe that the all-NBA-headcase Brooklyn circus won't implode and fall off the flat earth well before the playoffs. I expect Simmons to start well, but I have lots of confidence in Kyrie's ability to put him in the fetal position half-way through the season. Also, I just want a chance to leave Harden sad one more time.
Yea, it was a huge "if" even without these setbacks. The only teams to make the Finals more than once since 2015: GSW, CLE. And only one of those teams have their core intact.
And only a couple months ago, the narrative would've been quite different with unanswered questions about Wiseman's health (could he even play in SL?), two rookies that weren't really on fans' radar, and us losing some key pieces.
The NBA can change so quickly... and drastically...
People saying that Iggy won't really be stealing minutes from the young guns are off base. Iggy himself said he wouldn't be coming back unless he got assurances that he would be playing, he didn't want to be a player coach. Also, last year when Iggy was healthy, he was getting a solid 20 mph which is reflective of Kerr's documented preference for vets and love of Iggy.
Therefore, let's be charitable and assume he's only playing 10 minutes per night at the SG/SF spot, that's 10 minutes per game taken away from Moody/Kuminga in the exact year we need them to showcase their games before Wiggins contract expires.
In the end though, I'm not too bothered. I think Kuminga/Moody will outplay Iggy by the end of the year. If they can't, that's probably reflective of an Iggy Renaissance which I will be happy about as well since that improves our title chances.
"Stealing" isn't the right word though. If 68 yr-old Andre the Geriatric plays well enough to consistently get minutes over Moody/JK, well then those young guys better be paying attention.
> “I’m looking forward to playing, but I am on Kuminga, Moses Moody,” Iguodala said. “I am on the young fellas and I’m letting them know if I get on this court, you ain’t doing something right. No way you should allow me to get on the court.”
I was kind of in this vein (basically, if Moody or Kuminga aren't outplaying Dre by midseason, we aren't going anywhere in the playoffs, anyway).
Probably the main thing Iguodala will bring on the court is another ball-handler. We really only have three (Green, Steph, Poole) and maybe Rollins (I don't really know what he can do). So, in that sense, he may not directly steal minutes from either Kuminga or Moody, since that isn't their main role.
But, his primary value will be off the court. I still would have rather had someone less likely to be injured (McClung or another ball-handler-ish guard), but c'est la vie. We still have the 15th spot in case we need another PG.
Yep, that's why I was happy about the DDV/Green pickups. With them, we have a playoff battle tested squad 8 deep and anything out you g guns give us is just gravy!
With our aging core, we can't expect everyone to be able to go in the playoffs. Kuminga and Moody are going to be very important at playoff time, I think.
It will be fun to revisit this take next May/June and see if it was right.
I somewhat feel this way about the OGs more generally. Steph, Klay, and Dray should play regularly -- but their minutes should be more limited to save them for the playoffs.
I'm sure Steve Kerr is reading the chat and thinking, "I never thought of that. That's a good idea..."
Totally OT: I use the name Dilly for my cat Dill who is 7 1/2 now. [His pic is my avatar.] He appeared in my world after I had spinal surgery when he was about 6 wks old. Chasing after a small kitten [that bonded with me immediately after I coaxed him out from under my car] was about all I could do at that point. He gave me joy & a reason to keep on going. He used one of his 9 lives yesterday [down to 6 now] after, apparently, getting into a fight with an interloper the night before. Defending his territory, he received multiple wounds on his legs [right was the worst] & belly. We made a flying trip to the vet yesterday morning, he spent the night and is now ready to go home. I called this morning to ask how he was doing & the response was: "He's pissed off to be in a cage." Sounded like good news to me.
Oh so been there done that with a number of toms over the years. I hope Dill is much better this evening...generally cats heal very quickly (too quickly sometimes which is why they get so many wound infections) so I assume if you can get the antibiotics down, if prescribed, and lots of love and favorite foods, he will be good to go in a few days. My avatar is my Louis, who adopted me when he was 13, had been abandoned in a field, taken to the shelter and I went looking for an orange tom. I had him for 6 years before his kidneys gave out. Now I've been taken on by a crazy brother/sister team of tabbies who turned 3 years old this month. They are currently outside, doing God knows what. By the way, 7-1/2 is not old for a cat. Before Louis my previous tom went to 20 years old and I had a calico girl who was 23 when I had to let her go. Sorry for the super long off topic post!
Thanks for understanding, Alicat. Dill was able to get up on the bed and spent the night there and got down for a drink this morning. I was surprised he could get on the bed yesterday afternoon, honestly. When I finally went to bed last night, he started purring a bit. Another good sign.
Your tag team of tabbies sounds a bit like my young tribe of Molly & Boots. Long story with them but Molly & I bonded as soon as she came to me and started purring. Boots has finally decided that I'm ok and will let me hold him & give him loving. Now that Mama has kicked him out of the nest. He was a mama's boy so he's having a rough time with that. Their brother, Buff, is not around anymore. Mama took both the boys off and Boots was the one that found his way back. So... we are a work in progress here - but I think we will be ok.
It feels so terrible when a pet(or a child) is injured. I wish there were a better language for feelings, but there isn’t, but an injured pet causes a kind of immobilizing pain.I feel for you and hope you both get well soon.
Thanks, I've been kind of in "_____" since yesterday morning. I got Dill home this afternoon. He looks rough & is moving slow - but he was able to get onto the bed, so that's a good sign.
I am also a cat owner and I have more love for my furry guy than I do for most humans. Glad that your boy is doing better, hope he heals up to perfect health in no time.
I now have kitten Molly and her brother Boots. Other brother Buff isn't around now. [Mama took both of them off but Boots found his way back home.] Molly & the boys is a completely different story.
Steven A has been alluding to a much more complicated and messy story than has been released so far as well and has notably explicitly not defended Udoka.
I read most of Stephen A's takes like this is not that uncommon, other than the way the Celtics handled it. That's where his criticism seems to be focused.
Whereas the gravity of what Barnes is trying to impart is like, "this is pretty F'd up". Barnes own history in matters like this makes that an interesting perspective.
It's pretty funny to me. I heard he's such a cutting, prickly personality and he hates the nickname "Iggy". So I just never use it on the offchance he ever sees it. I know he'll hate both of those, even though the wordplay is great.
WELCOME BACK ANDRE! THE CHAMP IS HERE! Can't wait to see #9 make his haters and detractors out there look real dumb for doubting his usefulness to this team this year. Great news on a Friday!
Well I'll be a contrarian and say "meh". Yea Andre's a good leader, but if the $20 million price tag means we don't get the key mid-season pickup I'll be really sad. And whose minutes will he be stealing? Moody's? I guess if it's just DDV who gets pushed down the minutes chart, then I won't complain too much.
Last season he played 61 minutes in the playoffs. Do we expect more this year?
Now I will go run and hide under a rock and when Andre is awesome this year I will weep at the sounds of all the "I told you so" shouts raining down on me.
>Last season he played 61 minutes in the playoffs. Do we expect more this year?
No. But when he was healthy last year he was pretty darn good. I'd keep him on ice as much as possible this year, just on the offchance you can get a couple key playoff games out of him.
I wouldn't worry about him stealing minutes. He is on the team for one reason. He is Mother Hen. There are just too many young guys on the team and it is too much to ask the main guys (Curry, Klay, Dray, Wiggs, Loon, Poole) to babysit, teach, nurse wounds, encourage, etc. The main guys are focused on winning. DDV and JmGreen are rentals playing for a future payday. Wiseman, JK, Moody, PBJ, Reading Railroad Rollins and LQ on a 2-way compose 38% of what looks like a 14-man roster + 2. That is 6 puppies on a 16 man squad. They all need a mentor. Besides, Kerr and Meyers probably want this more than anyone as Andre is one of 4 or 5 people in the world that can call Draymond out when needed. Andre has one of the best minds in the game, and a complete mind that has something to contribute in all aspects of the game, both on the floor and off. He is gonna worth every dime of salary and tax.
Yes. - in his announcement he said he will be saying to JK and Moody and others - "If I'm out there, you are doing something wrong." Again, I trust Kerr, the Big 3 and the FO who say he is super valuable.
It's really hard for me to understand the value of the incremental impact of Andre's (vs. the rest of the players and huge coaching staff) bench leadership and mentoring of the young guys. If the FO and Kerr think there is real value here, then they're probably right. And I'm 100% on board for culture being a huge part of success for the Warriors - culture that Andre is a key part of.
From what I understand reading stuff that various players have said, there is a big difference in mentoring from an active player as opposed to a full-time coach. It may not be something we can appreciate as laymen but it definitely exists.
I imagine it coming off as more authentic than idealistic when an active player is mentoring you to show you what is possible, rather than a coach just instructing you based on what they want. Peer to peer coaching and mentorship is usually more effective at my current workplace that I manage. I am pretty good at what I do and have a good amount of knowledge that I pass on to the people I manage, but my staff performs best when one of my other successful staff members share there knowledge that aligns with my coaching. I think it’s just more digestible and seems more authentic to them
I’m not super concerned about his playing time. To me it’s a win-win: either he’s healthy and contributing (win), or he’s not playing much and the young crew is getting minutes (win).
What is definitely valuable is all the in-game and out of game coaching/mentoring he provides. I’m thinking of him coaching up JP after a blown defensive rotation against Jokic, or him coaching up GPII during a timeout against the Celtics.
1. Price tag - if Lacob is fine paying it, then whatever. It's not like it's stopping us from getting someone else this year.
2. Mid-season pickup - We can still do that. If there's someone worth getting at the mid-season point it will most likely be for a pro-rated vet-min. If it looks like that person will be a key piece in a championship run, I don't doubt we'd get them.
3. Stealing minutes - I seriously doubt it. Maybe in some games, but across the entire season I don't think he'll play all that much. He's here to be a bench presence, and that's likely where he'll be the vast majority of the time. If we get 5-10 minutes out of him a game then I think it's a win.
4. Playoffs - he wasn't a difference maker in the playoffs last year, and we didn't need him to be. I do think he can potentially be used situationally. If his bench presence is worth what the FO says it is, then the playoffs is when he'll be MOST important in that role.
Overall I've been fairly apathetic about Iguodala staying or retiring, but now that he's back it's time to embrace him for another title run.
The new team motto for this year: Win another one for Andre's thumb!
Agreed. There's no current opportunity cost that's worth fretting about. There's not a real rotation spot available. Right now it'd just be insurance for one of the young players they'd like to give minutes to.
Midseason they can be more targeted about addressing any weaknesses that reveal themselves.
This is not about a midseason pickup. This is about who they can get right now. Iguodala's presence on the team does not affect a midseason pickup as the Warriors are required to have 14 players on the roster from what I understand (if I'm wrong, let me know). So if you are saying Iguodala is the 10th man, who else could they get right now that would be the 10th man?
> With limited exceptions, teams are required to have 14 players on their rosters (not including two-way players). Teams cannot have more than 2 two-way players under contract.
I don't know what the exceptions are, so if this scenario is one of them let me know.
I think teams can run a 13 player roster for a limited number of days (you sometimes see teams right up against the tax run up against that limit, sign someone to a 10 day, go back to 13 players until they hit that limit, rinse & repeat)
That's right, and they did do that in the past. But the 10 day contract window opens up in like January, so I don't think the 13 man roster scenario would realistically apply to this Iguodala scenario.
What the Worrier said. Especially with the youth we have on the roster a vet that can actually go would have been great. However, after last season I have learned better than to doubt those decisions and if it helps the young guns, that also works for me.
I'm fucking thrilled that Iguodala is back, and also that he made it clear that this is his last season so I know to savor every minute that a franchise legend has left on the court.
Any post coming for the 1st day? I had to letsgowarriors.com to get clips. I'm not proud of that.
"I'm looking forward to playing, but I'm on Kuminga, I'm on Moses Moody, and I'm on the young fellas," Iguodala said on his "Point Forward" podcast on Friday. "And I'm letting them know, 'Listen, if I get on this court, you ain't doing something right. There's no way you should allow me to get on the court.'
"And that's just something I'm feeding to those guys and making sure that when I walk away, everything's taken care of."
Win another one for Andre"s thumb!!!
For Curry's, Draymond's, Klay's, and Kerr's (2nd) thumbs!
Insert kerr ring on fingers gif
Was hoping over the summer the algorithms were updated to allow for posting gifs :(
https://c.tenor.com/Fb9AU4Gpmj4AAAAC/steve-kerr-rings.gif
When he notches #10 this season, he really needs to update this with both hands (and greyer hair…)
LINEUP PERMUTATIONS
As long as I'm at it, I wanted to take a look at lineups to see what pops out.
.
Expected Core-6 lineups:
----------
Steph Klay Wiggs Dray Loon
Steph Klay Wiggs Dray Wise
Steph JP Wiggs Dray Loon
Steph JP Wiggs Dray Wise
JP Klay Wiggs Dray Loon
JP Klay Wiggs Dray Wise
Steph JP Klay Wiggs Dray
.
The All-Bench lineups:
--------------
The standard bench lineups:
JP MM JK JMG Wise
DDV MM JK JMG Wise
JP DDV MM JK Wise (Run The Floor!)
.
Mix in the splash bros:
Steph JP MM JK Wise
JP Klay MM JK Wise
.
Finally, an assortment of one-off lineups:
JMG small ball C: JP DDV MM JK JMG
Get to the cup: Steph JP JK Dray Wise
The core and the future: Steph Klay MM JK Dray
Spread the floor: Steph JP Klay MM JMG/Wise (not sure which one is the better stretch 5)
Mentor Me: Andre MM JK Dray Wise
And finally: D-it-up! Andre MM Wiggs Dray Loon (probably doesn't have enough shooting, but the opposing team won't score either)
I think one question that will be really interesting is at what point JK and Wiseman can play together. Defensively, I don’t think they’re ready to play together yet. And offensively, they do a lot of the same stuff and limit each other’s spacing. But if you assume they both end up playing 15-20 min per night, they’re almost certainly going to play together. It’ll be an interesting process to watch…
Yah, the summer league teaser with JK and Wise Pn'R 'oop dunk was 🔥
This is one iteration that I hope everyone is anxious to see. Both these guys are s-tier, ultra max-level physically built for the modern NBA defensive side of the ball. If they can even remotely get bought in and “get it”, that’s a disgusting amount of talent. Here’s hoping that the development staff and these Ferraris have meshed well!
I think it'll be limited to garbage time to start. They're going to establish things that work and focus on racking wins. If they show some chemistry in garbage time it will stretch out.
Andre is gonna play. How many minutes and how many games is the only question. Last year, Kerr left him in some of the games for too long. He should not play more than 10 mins a game.
This is fun, and yes I’ve been thinking about it a bit. But, I think we are going to see a lot more lineups that mix the core 6 (Steph, Klay, Dray, Loon, Wiggs, JP) with Wiseman, JK and Moody. All kinds of permutations. Wiseman, JK, Wiggs, Klay, JP. Loon, Wiggs, Moody, JP, Steph. Wiseman, Dray, JK, JP, Steph. That kind of thing.
It has been 532 days since Wiseman's injury. I think because we have seen so little of him it feels longer than Klay's comeback. Shout out to anyone else who is in recovery in whatever capacity that is... You will always be worth it.
Well said!
Now that Andre's roster spot is set, I couldn't help myself and started thinking about rotations and minutes. Obviously, y'all are doing the same as there's plenty of convo here about who's minutes Andre gets. So here's a pulled out of my ass guesstimate for minutes for a run-of-the-mill low-stakes regular season game, and a blow-out game, as well as minutes by position for each player.
RUN-OF-THE-MILL REG SEASON GAME - non-blowout
---
Steph: 30 min PG:30
Dray: 30 min PF:20, C:10
Klay: 30 min SG:20, SF:10
Wiggs: 32 min SF:22, PF:10
JP: 32 min PG:18,SG:14
Loon: 20 min C:20
Wise: 18 min C:18
MM: 13 min SG:4,SF:9
JK: 13 min PF:12, SF:1
DDV: 10 min SG:10
JMG: 6 min PF:6
Andre: 6 min SF: 6
RUN-OF-THE-MILL REG SEASON GAME - blowout
---
Steph: 24 min PG:24
Dray: 24 min C:3,PF:21
Klay: 24 min SG:18,SF:6
Wiggs: 28 min PF:3
JP: 28 min PG:20,SG:8
Loon: 20 min C:20
Wise: 22 min C:22
MM: 22 min SG:10,SF:12
JK: 22 min C:3,PF:18,SF:1
DDV: 12 min SG:12
JMG: 6 min PF:6
PBJ: 4 SF:4
RR: 4 PG:4
I'd also expect Kerr to take advantage of the schedule to not only rest the regulars on back-to-backs, but also regularly give one of the big 3 a random rest day off, and let the other 2 play. In those games, there should be an extra 30 minutes to go to the bench for the appropriate spots.
Finally, assuming there's a regular season must-win game (eg. Christmas vs the Grizz), and assuming Andre is the better option:
Regular Season MUST-WIN game
Steph: 34 min PG:34
Dray: 34 min PF:22, C:12
Klay: 34 min SG:22, SF:12
Wiggs: 36 min SF:20, PF:16
JP: 36 min PG:14,SG:22
Loon: 22 min C:22
Wise: 14 min C: 14
MM: 6 min SF:6
JK: 10 min PF:10
DDV: 4 min SG:4
Andre: 10 min SF:10
MOST INTERESTING TAKEAWAY:
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In Must win-games, Dray will play more minutes at Center, obviously squeezing Wiseman. But an interesting by-product of that is that Wiggs and JK will have to play PF during those minutes where Dray is playing Center. That means that Andre, if he is the best player among the bench squad will be pushing Moody's minutes more than JK's minutes. Basically, when the Dubs play small, JK has to play PF, unless Andre wants to bang around as PF in those minutes (which I doubt). So it's Moody's minutes as a 3 that Andre takes away, and Moody's minutes as a 2 that increased play from Steph/Klay/JP will take away. I guess you could make the argument that MM could play the 4 in small-ball - something like a JP, DDV, Andre, MM, Dray lineup, but that just seems ... odd.
What Dre's return means for the roster:
It effectively stalls out the competition for a full time roster spot. There's a very slight chance that one of the invites could impress enough to warrant signing them to the 15th roster spot. Last year, GP2 earned the 15th, but the team knew that it had a glaring hole in POA defense (and perhaps 3rd string ball-handler). They filled the POA defense role with GP2 and JP3 stepped up his ball-handling game to become 2nd-string PG while Chiozza stepped in for 3rd string ball-handling.
This year, there are no glaring holes that the roster needs. Perhaps wing depth, but that's what 2-ways are for. There's no rotation role available, and minutes will be scarce for the 12th and 13th roster spots (rooks), so any idea that a 15th man would earn meaningful minutes is silly.
So, realistically, I'd say there's less than a 3% chance that 15th spot gets filled before buyout season. However, the invites can still choose to be motivated by that 3%. Getting to the NBA is all about defying the odds against you, after all. So, TW or MmC have a choice to be demotivated or to fight for that 3% chance.
That being said, there are two 2-ways available. LQ is signed to one of them and QW has a QO for the other (I believe). I think QW will easily win any battle for one of the slots if he so chooses. And that would immediately fill the last remaining need on the roster (wing-depth). There is a small chance that he gets lured elsewhere and signs for a full roster spot, however. The remaining 2-way, I believe, is not LQ's. He may be signed to it right now, but things can change fairly quickly.
So, that's the real competition right there: Among two-way eligible players for the second 2-way slot. Mac McClung, if he chooses to settle for a 2-way, is eligible. LQ, obviously is a the nominal front-runner. Trevion Williams has a chance to win it out, as well. Remember that these guys are not only auditioning for a 2-way slot, but also for other teams who may be looking for a project for their remaining roster spots, too.
Does anyone know if any of the more recent roster invitees and signees are available to sign a two-way? My guess is at least a couple of them are eligible, so any that are can get thrown into the scrum for the two-way.
Vets that were invited to camp, but not eligible for a 2-way can be treated as roster filler for the spring training rosters. No doubt some of them, as well as those who don't end up securing that second 2-way slot will almost all be offered contracts with the Sea-Dubs. So, TW fans, don't despair. Even if he loses out the 2-way slot to LQ or MM, there's a good chance he stays connected with the team in SC. If he impresses there, the Dubs could very well decide to swap a 2-way contract to him, mid-season, to secure his rights.
I hope we end up with both Mac and TW on Santa Cruz. We’ll see.
I recall reading that Mac signed a contract that would not allow for a two-way slot. He wants on a 15 man roster or not at all.
Right - that's how he's currently signed. He will obviously be waived at this point, unless he pulls off the 3% and has an insane camp. Once waived, the Dubs could extend a 2-way to him, and if he has no 15-man offers, he could accept that. Last year, he was Rookie of the Year in the G-league, but I don't think he got any 2-way time at all last year and didn't play in the NBA, so it'd still be a step-up from last year.
Kinda hard NOT to juxtapose the Warriors' recent offseason announcements with the Celtics':
Warriors:
That young guy with a knee injury (Wiseman)? He's worked all offseason and he's ready to go! Those injured new guys we signed (PBJ, Rollins), they're fully ready for training camp! That old guy who spent a bunch of time on the bench (Iguodala)? He's coming back!
Celtics:
That young guy with a knee injury (Williams III)? Yeah... he needs surgery, gonna be out a while. That healthy new guy we signed (Gallo), he's injured and gonna miss the season. That old guy who spent a bunch of time on the bench (Udoka)? He's suspended (and probably fired)...
Sucks for Boston honestly, I don't want any excuses when we cream them again in the Finals. If they even make it back.
But there are always excuses, no matter which opponent or whatever circumstances. Haven't we heard them all since the 2014-2015 season?
And gave plenty in 2016 & 2019… it’s always excuses… hoping to avoid them if a fools errand.
I think they had their one shot.
Agree. Personally I'm feeling that GS is going to get to deny James Harden and P J Tucker yet another championship this year. Although I'm open to the possibility that Giannis might do it for them.
Wow -- you think they'll be better than the Bucks?
I hear whispers of the Nets being really good with Ben Simmons finally ready to go. I think it would be awesome if they made the finals, and then Kyrie decided his head just wasn't right and he needed a break.
It's just a feeling. I don't think the 76er's are necessarily better to start, but I believe a lot in PJ Tucker's ability to keep Harden focused. Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday are in the running for best starting three in the East, but the Bucks' injury history hasn't been great and I don't see a ton of depth. I just can't bring myself to believe that the all-NBA-headcase Brooklyn circus won't implode and fall off the flat earth well before the playoffs. I expect Simmons to start well, but I have lots of confidence in Kyrie's ability to put him in the fetal position half-way through the season. Also, I just want a chance to leave Harden sad one more time.
Yea, it was a huge "if" even without these setbacks. The only teams to make the Finals more than once since 2015: GSW, CLE. And only one of those teams have their core intact.
Steph and LeBron. Top 5 players of all time. 'Nuff said.
Yep. Steph at #1 and Lebron at #5. :)
And only a couple months ago, the narrative would've been quite different with unanswered questions about Wiseman's health (could he even play in SL?), two rookies that weren't really on fans' radar, and us losing some key pieces.
The NBA can change so quickly... and drastically...
People saying that Iggy won't really be stealing minutes from the young guns are off base. Iggy himself said he wouldn't be coming back unless he got assurances that he would be playing, he didn't want to be a player coach. Also, last year when Iggy was healthy, he was getting a solid 20 mph which is reflective of Kerr's documented preference for vets and love of Iggy.
Therefore, let's be charitable and assume he's only playing 10 minutes per night at the SG/SF spot, that's 10 minutes per game taken away from Moody/Kuminga in the exact year we need them to showcase their games before Wiggins contract expires.
In the end though, I'm not too bothered. I think Kuminga/Moody will outplay Iggy by the end of the year. If they can't, that's probably reflective of an Iggy Renaissance which I will be happy about as well since that improves our title chances.
"Stealing" isn't the right word though. If 68 yr-old Andre the Geriatric plays well enough to consistently get minutes over Moody/JK, well then those young guys better be paying attention.
Which is what Dre told them himself -- something like, "If you see me on the floor, you're doing something wrong..."
💜
And I just read your link above... Andre said:
> “I’m looking forward to playing, but I am on Kuminga, Moses Moody,” Iguodala said. “I am on the young fellas and I’m letting them know if I get on this court, you ain’t doing something right. No way you should allow me to get on the court.”
Pretty awesome quote. We forget sometimes how competitive the guys are with their own teammates, let alone the other teams.
Andre is throwing down the gauntlet, challenging the young guns to take his minutes.
I was kind of in this vein (basically, if Moody or Kuminga aren't outplaying Dre by midseason, we aren't going anywhere in the playoffs, anyway).
Probably the main thing Iguodala will bring on the court is another ball-handler. We really only have three (Green, Steph, Poole) and maybe Rollins (I don't really know what he can do). So, in that sense, he may not directly steal minutes from either Kuminga or Moody, since that isn't their main role.
But, his primary value will be off the court. I still would have rather had someone less likely to be injured (McClung or another ball-handler-ish guard), but c'est la vie. We still have the 15th spot in case we need another PG.
I don’t think GSW is entirely dependent on Moody and Kuminga.
Steph, Klay, Wiggs, Draymond and Looney are champ starters, and Poole, DDV, JMG, Wiseman and Iggy is a fair amount of depth.
Yep, that's why I was happy about the DDV/Green pickups. With them, we have a playoff battle tested squad 8 deep and anything out you g guns give us is just gravy!
I think this is a trifle optimistic.
With our aging core, we can't expect everyone to be able to go in the playoffs. Kuminga and Moody are going to be very important at playoff time, I think.
It will be fun to revisit this take next May/June and see if it was right.
Nothing beats on court coaching for the kids.
I somewhat feel this way about the OGs more generally. Steph, Klay, and Dray should play regularly -- but their minutes should be more limited to save them for the playoffs.
I'm sure Steve Kerr is reading the chat and thinking, "I never thought of that. That's a good idea..."
Totally OT: I use the name Dilly for my cat Dill who is 7 1/2 now. [His pic is my avatar.] He appeared in my world after I had spinal surgery when he was about 6 wks old. Chasing after a small kitten [that bonded with me immediately after I coaxed him out from under my car] was about all I could do at that point. He gave me joy & a reason to keep on going. He used one of his 9 lives yesterday [down to 6 now] after, apparently, getting into a fight with an interloper the night before. Defending his territory, he received multiple wounds on his legs [right was the worst] & belly. We made a flying trip to the vet yesterday morning, he spent the night and is now ready to go home. I called this morning to ask how he was doing & the response was: "He's pissed off to be in a cage." Sounded like good news to me.
Oh so been there done that with a number of toms over the years. I hope Dill is much better this evening...generally cats heal very quickly (too quickly sometimes which is why they get so many wound infections) so I assume if you can get the antibiotics down, if prescribed, and lots of love and favorite foods, he will be good to go in a few days. My avatar is my Louis, who adopted me when he was 13, had been abandoned in a field, taken to the shelter and I went looking for an orange tom. I had him for 6 years before his kidneys gave out. Now I've been taken on by a crazy brother/sister team of tabbies who turned 3 years old this month. They are currently outside, doing God knows what. By the way, 7-1/2 is not old for a cat. Before Louis my previous tom went to 20 years old and I had a calico girl who was 23 when I had to let her go. Sorry for the super long off topic post!
Thanks for understanding, Alicat. Dill was able to get up on the bed and spent the night there and got down for a drink this morning. I was surprised he could get on the bed yesterday afternoon, honestly. When I finally went to bed last night, he started purring a bit. Another good sign.
Your tag team of tabbies sounds a bit like my young tribe of Molly & Boots. Long story with them but Molly & I bonded as soon as she came to me and started purring. Boots has finally decided that I'm ok and will let me hold him & give him loving. Now that Mama has kicked him out of the nest. He was a mama's boy so he's having a rough time with that. Their brother, Buff, is not around anymore. Mama took both the boys off and Boots was the one that found his way back. So... we are a work in progress here - but I think we will be ok.
Not a cat owner, but there are a bunch at the shelter where I volunteer. A couple have wormed their way into my heart.
Hope Dill has a full and speedy recovery! ❤️
Thanks, Goofus!!
It feels so terrible when a pet(or a child) is injured. I wish there were a better language for feelings, but there isn’t, but an injured pet causes a kind of immobilizing pain.I feel for you and hope you both get well soon.
Thanks, I've been kind of in "_____" since yesterday morning. I got Dill home this afternoon. He looks rough & is moving slow - but he was able to get onto the bed, so that's a good sign.
I am also a cat owner and I have more love for my furry guy than I do for most humans. Glad that your boy is doing better, hope he heals up to perfect health in no time.
Thanks, Crusty!!
As a fellow Dilly (well, Dylan, but I've heard "Dilly" more than a few times) I approve this message. Get well soon, Mr. Dill!
Thanks, Sleepy. [Never would have guessed you for a Dilly, too. ;)]
Nope. But it might as well be. lol
I now have kitten Molly and her brother Boots. Other brother Buff isn't around now. [Mama took both of them off but Boots found his way back home.] Molly & the boys is a completely different story.
Thanks, Sabrina!!
Whoa, Matt Barnes hinting at some as-yet-unreported disturbing details of the Udoka story:
https://mobile.twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1573363205468000256
Sounds like anyone who immediately rushed to Udoka’s defense (including Barnes, very cool of him to own up) may need to walk some things back.
Dang. Does anyone know some of the details he's referring to?
Kudos to Barnes. He seems like a stand up guy, and he's proving it again. Anyone could get it wrong without enough info; glad he's correcting it ASAP.
Yikes.
Steven A has been alluding to a much more complicated and messy story than has been released so far as well and has notably explicitly not defended Udoka.
I read most of Stephen A's takes like this is not that uncommon, other than the way the Celtics handled it. That's where his criticism seems to be focused.
Whereas the gravity of what Barnes is trying to impart is like, "this is pretty F'd up". Barnes own history in matters like this makes that an interesting perspective.
Age 39 season deserves a new nickname. I nominate “IgOLDala” or “Iggy Pops”.
In honor of his wise presence, how about The Iguodalai Lama?
Iggy Pops is awesome.
It's pretty funny to me. I heard he's such a cutting, prickly personality and he hates the nickname "Iggy". So I just never use it on the offchance he ever sees it. I know he'll hate both of those, even though the wordplay is great.
Dre the Grey
Old Man Dre
He’s said he’s mellowed and is ok with Iggy
He just laughs it off now and said as much years ago.
You may be on to something here, Andre IS kind of the Gandalf of the crew.
I kind of hate how much I like "Iggy Pops".
I'll go with uncle
"Ojisan" is a great Japanese word that translates roughly to "kindly old uncle." I may go with that.
I thinking 'Miyagi' -- or 'Yoda.'
You guys are a bunch of sentimental fools. Ok ok I love Andre too!
WELCOME BACK ANDRE! THE CHAMP IS HERE! Can't wait to see #9 make his haters and detractors out there look real dumb for doubting his usefulness to this team this year. Great news on a Friday!
Well I'll be a contrarian and say "meh". Yea Andre's a good leader, but if the $20 million price tag means we don't get the key mid-season pickup I'll be really sad. And whose minutes will he be stealing? Moody's? I guess if it's just DDV who gets pushed down the minutes chart, then I won't complain too much.
Last season he played 61 minutes in the playoffs. Do we expect more this year?
Now I will go run and hide under a rock and when Andre is awesome this year I will weep at the sounds of all the "I told you so" shouts raining down on me.
>Last season he played 61 minutes in the playoffs. Do we expect more this year?
No. But when he was healthy last year he was pretty darn good. I'd keep him on ice as much as possible this year, just on the offchance you can get a couple key playoff games out of him.
I wouldn't worry about him stealing minutes. He is on the team for one reason. He is Mother Hen. There are just too many young guys on the team and it is too much to ask the main guys (Curry, Klay, Dray, Wiggs, Loon, Poole) to babysit, teach, nurse wounds, encourage, etc. The main guys are focused on winning. DDV and JmGreen are rentals playing for a future payday. Wiseman, JK, Moody, PBJ, Reading Railroad Rollins and LQ on a 2-way compose 38% of what looks like a 14-man roster + 2. That is 6 puppies on a 16 man squad. They all need a mentor. Besides, Kerr and Meyers probably want this more than anyone as Andre is one of 4 or 5 people in the world that can call Draymond out when needed. Andre has one of the best minds in the game, and a complete mind that has something to contribute in all aspects of the game, both on the floor and off. He is gonna worth every dime of salary and tax.
Andre can speak truth to Draymond and be respected, too, and that's worth something.
Yes. - in his announcement he said he will be saying to JK and Moody and others - "If I'm out there, you are doing something wrong." Again, I trust Kerr, the Big 3 and the FO who say he is super valuable.
It's really hard for me to understand the value of the incremental impact of Andre's (vs. the rest of the players and huge coaching staff) bench leadership and mentoring of the young guys. If the FO and Kerr think there is real value here, then they're probably right. And I'm 100% on board for culture being a huge part of success for the Warriors - culture that Andre is a key part of.
I can't wait to watch tonight's game.
WTF?!??!? NO GAMES FOR WEEKS????
From what I understand reading stuff that various players have said, there is a big difference in mentoring from an active player as opposed to a full-time coach. It may not be something we can appreciate as laymen but it definitely exists.
I imagine it coming off as more authentic than idealistic when an active player is mentoring you to show you what is possible, rather than a coach just instructing you based on what they want. Peer to peer coaching and mentorship is usually more effective at my current workplace that I manage. I am pretty good at what I do and have a good amount of knowledge that I pass on to the people I manage, but my staff performs best when one of my other successful staff members share there knowledge that aligns with my coaching. I think it’s just more digestible and seems more authentic to them
I’m not super concerned about his playing time. To me it’s a win-win: either he’s healthy and contributing (win), or he’s not playing much and the young crew is getting minutes (win).
What is definitely valuable is all the in-game and out of game coaching/mentoring he provides. I’m thinking of him coaching up JP after a blown defensive rotation against Jokic, or him coaching up GPII during a timeout against the Celtics.
To respond:
1. Price tag - if Lacob is fine paying it, then whatever. It's not like it's stopping us from getting someone else this year.
2. Mid-season pickup - We can still do that. If there's someone worth getting at the mid-season point it will most likely be for a pro-rated vet-min. If it looks like that person will be a key piece in a championship run, I don't doubt we'd get them.
3. Stealing minutes - I seriously doubt it. Maybe in some games, but across the entire season I don't think he'll play all that much. He's here to be a bench presence, and that's likely where he'll be the vast majority of the time. If we get 5-10 minutes out of him a game then I think it's a win.
4. Playoffs - he wasn't a difference maker in the playoffs last year, and we didn't need him to be. I do think he can potentially be used situationally. If his bench presence is worth what the FO says it is, then the playoffs is when he'll be MOST important in that role.
Overall I've been fairly apathetic about Iguodala staying or retiring, but now that he's back it's time to embrace him for another title run.
The new team motto for this year: Win another one for Andre's thumb!
A 1 thumb salute to 2022-2023
The voice of reason speaks. Hell yea!
> Last season he played 61 minutes in the playoffs. Do we expect more this year?
I'd love to hear which 14th man they could pick up who would play more minutes in the playoffs.
Have people forgotten that Iguodala was actually useful in the regular season when he played?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGtqafE4Ets
EDIT: Also the Warriors are required to have 14 players on the roster, so Iguodala's minimum salary is not preventing them from any midseason pickups.
Agreed. There's no current opportunity cost that's worth fretting about. There's not a real rotation spot available. Right now it'd just be insurance for one of the young players they'd like to give minutes to.
Midseason they can be more targeted about addressing any weaknesses that reveal themselves.
Come now. Andre's not the 14th man. At worst he's number 10 in the rotation after Poole and the Gang.
And the mid-season pick-up wouldn't be a 14th man. He'd be a solid middle rotation guy replacing someone who got injured. Which I hope never happens.
This is not about a midseason pickup. This is about who they can get right now. Iguodala's presence on the team does not affect a midseason pickup as the Warriors are required to have 14 players on the roster from what I understand (if I'm wrong, let me know). So if you are saying Iguodala is the 10th man, who else could they get right now that would be the 10th man?
https://cbabreakdown.com/other-notes
> With limited exceptions, teams are required to have 14 players on their rosters (not including two-way players). Teams cannot have more than 2 two-way players under contract.
I don't know what the exceptions are, so if this scenario is one of them let me know.
I think teams can run a 13 player roster for a limited number of days (you sometimes see teams right up against the tax run up against that limit, sign someone to a 10 day, go back to 13 players until they hit that limit, rinse & repeat)
That's right, and they did do that in the past. But the 10 day contract window opens up in like January, so I don't think the 13 man roster scenario would realistically apply to this Iguodala scenario.
What the Worrier said. Especially with the youth we have on the roster a vet that can actually go would have been great. However, after last season I have learned better than to doubt those decisions and if it helps the young guns, that also works for me.
I'm fucking thrilled that Iguodala is back, and also that he made it clear that this is his last season so I know to savor every minute that a franchise legend has left on the court.
If this works out, does he take the Haslem deal in 2023-2024?
Nope, this is his last dance