"Before last season, Poole had a sibling-like bond with Green, who enlisted himself as Poole’s mentor and fiercest defender soon after the 28th pick in the 2019 draft arrived in Golden State. “It’s really a big brother, little brother relationship,” Poole told me in the fall of 2021. When veterans complained about Poole’s shot selection or propensity to trash talk in scrimmages (who felt he hadn’t earned the right to be brash), Green, sensing a kinship, would come to his defense."
I must admit, if this is true, the vets are acting like absolute bitches who can't take trash talk. That is part of the game, and just because you are the top dogs in an organization doesn't mean you should try and control how others express themselves. With that being said, complaining about his shot selection is fine even though I wish they'd sit down and have that same talk with Klay.
"In the days, weeks, and months after Green and Poole’s training-camp scuffle, their relationship changed . . . Green released a mini documentary in which the forward expressed regret about the situation, but didn’t offer an apology. The divide widened as Green, who declined comment for this story, accepted several invitations to speak on the situation during last season, but never spoke with Poole directly, angering many within Poole’s inner circle. According to Warriors officials, head coach Steve Kerr made several attempts to convince Green to take Poole to dinner, to smooth over their relationship, but Green declined. Those around the situation now believe the lack of disciplinary action—other than an undisclosed fine—and the inability of anyone on the Warriors to repair the fractured relationship soured the team’s season. Poole became isolated, left to balance his personal goals with the team’s, widening the chasm between the Warriors core and the young prospects tasked with prolonging the dynasty. Poole’s determination to prove he was worthy of carrying the torch led to on-court mistakes that left teammates and coaches befuddled."
I think the Warriors made the right decision getting rid of Poole because him/Dray on the same team would have destroyed chemistry and Dray is the second most important player on our team by far who carries our defense. Draymond has always been my favorite player on the Warriors (I love Klay as well). However, the more I learn about Dray and this situation, the more I realize he's just a fucking asshole.
Also, it sucks seeing DubNation HQ doing the player/character assassination it often does to former players. Y'all do it to KD downplaying the time he spent here, shitting on how good he is, and disrespecting a man who played/got injured trying to get us our third final and y'all act as if he aint deserving of a trophy/statute. Now you guys are doing it to Poole, acting as if he was a cancer on this team when it was the team who failed him. Sure, he didn't always put 100% effort on defense but Klay also jacks up insane shots on the regular and y'all don't castigate him. I hate this fan mob mentality that shits on players when they leave. It happens far too often imho.
I think people here are mostly keeping an eye on Poole because they like him. Certainly that's the case with me.
You can still be fond of Poole, and realize that he may not have been the best fit on the team. There is no question he was an offense-only kind of player.
I think he'll be a lot of fun on Washington, which has no real title hopes. It's an open question to whether he can be the number 1/number 2 guy on a team with title aspirations.
Beyond that, there are a few people who feel he may very well have said something unforgivable, that led to the punch.
I really haven't seen Poole getting trashed much just for being gone. Some, yes, but a very small amount. Mostly, the criticisms are specific and justified.
"I think people here are mostly keeping an eye on Poole because they like him."
With all due respect, I think thats BS. The vast majority of time, whenever people mention Poole, its almost always within a negative context.
Even when Poole had his 40 pt game in the preseason, people rushed to criticize him talking about how he had meh plus minus (as if single game plus minus means anything). Then, when he has poor games in preseason they use it as evidence of his inefficiency. Yet, those same people rarely if ever talk about Klay's TS% being 3% lower.
"Beyond that, there are a few people who feel he may very well have said something unforgivable, that led to the punch."
I also think this is bullshit. Firstly, it don't matter what he said, that doesn't mean you should get punched for it. Secondly, we know what he said to Draymond ("You're an expensive backpack for 30"). That is in no way bad enough to make Draymond's punch at least understandable. Anyone who punches in reaction to that has the emotional control of a five year old.
"I really haven't seen Poole getting trashed much just for being gone."
Then you've not been paying attention. I have, because its a general trend I generally see with fans. Saw it back when I was a Raiders fan, and I see it here as a Warriors fan.
Coming back here since I finally got around to the game.
That Wembanyama kid is on the fast track to an MVP award. I dunno if he makes all-star in his rookie year, especially in the Western Conference, but it's looking like he'll be there real soon if he isn't already. The rest of the Spurs team played real hard, though, and that's what really won them this game. Second chance points, turnovers, hustle plays, guys like Sochan were working for it. Good for them.
Our 4th quarter group was also working about as hard, and it was awesome to see how fast and connected guys were on defense. I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd-string/garbage time style lineup play as hard and coordinated as our group did. So good.
Moody had his best preseason game for sure; he was a huge positive force the whole time. Podziemski was a couple makes short of being killer, and TJD looked great too.
I think of a lot of young guys as being "a couple years away" from being an NBA player but our rookies are *here*. Yeah they're only at the starting line, but man. It's such a relief to see them step onto the court and be like, yeah, they're playing the game. They're comfortable, they're contributing, they're so much better than last year's rookies (sorry PBJ & Rollins, nothing personal).
Speaking of dudes who have arrived, Kuminga! Loving the evolution of his game and BBIQ, and his improved coachability is visible. See Chris Paul whispering in his ear one play, not long after that he boxes out a defender and earns CP3 an open layup? And I have to say, I hate Paul a lot less when I see him smiling and giving JK recognition for putting it into practice right away. That kind of thing is making this season exciting.
I hope Klay gets his toast heated up for the regular season, because it's gonna be a lot harder if the Captain's jumper isn't wet.
I like it. I think MM is going to be one of those players like Loon that looks like he disappears on the court but then you look at the box scores and think "wait what When then that happen" and being pleasantly surprised.
I think the most heartening things about this preseason are:
1. TJD looking like he belongs.
But, also:
2. Moody validating last year's playoff run.
Kuminga's ascension was pretty much expected. Kerr is tailoring the second unit to him ... if he doesn't get 15-20 a night, something is wrong.
But, Moody needs to fit in and get his shots wherever. The fact that he's been this productive is impressive. I still think his defense needs a lot of work, but the overall arc is very nice.
I mean… if the real conflict between the two wasn’t resolved, WTF is the point of a dinner like that? Does Kerr really think conflict resolution is so easy? Maybe Kerr didn’t get the message from Dray and KDs infamous podcast?
I'm guessing the idea was to sit them down to talk it over, and sometimes, the food helps. It's water under the bridge now as far as the team is concerned, but as Steph himself said, it would be nice if they could work it out. To me, it seems like Draymond should NOT be the one turning down such a dinner, but he is who he is.
I bought tickets (and international plane tickets) for my first Warriors game on Dec 22 vs WAS. If neither Poole nor Draymond play I'm going to be a little annoyed...
I was listening to the Ringer Group Chat team rankings, and truly enjoyed listening to Justin and Rob wax about how Denver never had to play a true 5-out team like the Celtics… only to have Wos (big Denver/Jokic backer) cackle at them about how Tatum folds in big moments and acknowledge that Denver is great, but didn’t have to deal with Steph last playoffs…
They really got into it in that last installment. Between that podcast and the Simmons over/under ones I listened a lot of NBA preseason reporting this week.
It makes no sense for the Warriors to send Steph Curry out there to jump the tip-off against Victor Wembanyama, who clearly would win the tip-off due to being much taller and having longer arms. What were the Warriors thinking?
LOL. But Curry's sense of fun and play perfectly fit the occasion, while Chris Paul's more dour demeanor - well, maybe it would have been a chance for him to show a lighter side. The fact is I've never seen Chris Paul smile as much as I have in all his years in the league as now playing with the Dubs. Of course, he was generally on the wrong side of a beat-down in those other years....but does he even look like he's having fun on his commercials?
He's fun to watch. I hope he can stay on the court. There may be a physical limit to his endurance - I expect to see drop off at the end of games and later in the season. But with time and experience, he may figure out how to overcome those issues.
Meanwhile, Moody and JK are playing well. What will it take for them to get more playing time?
Anthony Slater brought up the Moody issue on 2 recent podcasts. Saying that currently he is like #10 in the rotation, ahead of the rookies and CoJo, but behind pretty much everyone else. Also noted that that seems to be the case every year, but then he ends up playing 25 min a game by the playoffs. I mean, not a terrible issue to have, and better this year if he is buried behind CP and GPII instead of Ty Jerome.
They thought JK was like #7 or 8 currently in the rotation, and expect him to get time, but mostly with the second unit. But, like Aaannnd1 said, they'll probably see their time mostly when the vets are resting or injured.
Moody is the best shooter on the bench. If Kerr wants spacing, he’s calling on Moody over CP3, JK, Saric, or GP2. That’s meaningful. He needs to be competent defensively, but that’s a real path to minutes.
Wemby is the best prospect since Zion. Who was the best prospect since Wiggins. Who was the best prospect since AD. Who was the best prospect since LeBron. Who was in Trainwreck with Matthew Broderick. Who was in She's Having a Baby with Kevin Bacon
True or not, “best prospect since LeBron” seems to be a curse more than a title, everyone we’ve seen who has been called that has struggled HEAVILY in one way or another.
I don’t know, man. Something about the Spurs winning the lottery in the year Wemby comes out still doesn’t sit right with me. That team has had enough success. They need to be in the dark ages for a bit more.
Wemby only played a half. He could have scored fifty. It's a real problem for the W's considering the rest of the Spurs could;t miss from deep, and Klay and Steph were impotent.
He wasn’t close to scoring 50 with any amount of court time. We’ll see how he holds up when someone like Kawhi is going straight into his chest 5 times in a game.
Wemby was noticeably gassed at times. He made 8/19 shots. He had fewer rebounds than both CP3 and Podz. The eye test is real and he does some amazing things, but let’s see him perform consistently well in meaningful games before crowning him.
Draymond goes a long way to solving both those problems (defense on VW and enabling Klay and Steph).
I think, like with any new player, there is an adjustment period while the league figures him out. In this case, VW's tools are so good, he's going to run wild for a while, but it will settle down (at what level, not sure).
We'll see. Two years from now, though, oy ... I don't know what you do with him then.
Very interesting article on the Poole/Draymond situation . . .
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/10/19/23922747/jordan-poole-washington-wizards-2023-nba-season-draymond-green-warriors
Some interesting tidbits . . .
"Before last season, Poole had a sibling-like bond with Green, who enlisted himself as Poole’s mentor and fiercest defender soon after the 28th pick in the 2019 draft arrived in Golden State. “It’s really a big brother, little brother relationship,” Poole told me in the fall of 2021. When veterans complained about Poole’s shot selection or propensity to trash talk in scrimmages (who felt he hadn’t earned the right to be brash), Green, sensing a kinship, would come to his defense."
I must admit, if this is true, the vets are acting like absolute bitches who can't take trash talk. That is part of the game, and just because you are the top dogs in an organization doesn't mean you should try and control how others express themselves. With that being said, complaining about his shot selection is fine even though I wish they'd sit down and have that same talk with Klay.
"In the days, weeks, and months after Green and Poole’s training-camp scuffle, their relationship changed . . . Green released a mini documentary in which the forward expressed regret about the situation, but didn’t offer an apology. The divide widened as Green, who declined comment for this story, accepted several invitations to speak on the situation during last season, but never spoke with Poole directly, angering many within Poole’s inner circle. According to Warriors officials, head coach Steve Kerr made several attempts to convince Green to take Poole to dinner, to smooth over their relationship, but Green declined. Those around the situation now believe the lack of disciplinary action—other than an undisclosed fine—and the inability of anyone on the Warriors to repair the fractured relationship soured the team’s season. Poole became isolated, left to balance his personal goals with the team’s, widening the chasm between the Warriors core and the young prospects tasked with prolonging the dynasty. Poole’s determination to prove he was worthy of carrying the torch led to on-court mistakes that left teammates and coaches befuddled."
You might want to move this to the current thread.
Yeah fair enough.
I think the Warriors made the right decision getting rid of Poole because him/Dray on the same team would have destroyed chemistry and Dray is the second most important player on our team by far who carries our defense. Draymond has always been my favorite player on the Warriors (I love Klay as well). However, the more I learn about Dray and this situation, the more I realize he's just a fucking asshole.
Also, it sucks seeing DubNation HQ doing the player/character assassination it often does to former players. Y'all do it to KD downplaying the time he spent here, shitting on how good he is, and disrespecting a man who played/got injured trying to get us our third final and y'all act as if he aint deserving of a trophy/statute. Now you guys are doing it to Poole, acting as if he was a cancer on this team when it was the team who failed him. Sure, he didn't always put 100% effort on defense but Klay also jacks up insane shots on the regular and y'all don't castigate him. I hate this fan mob mentality that shits on players when they leave. It happens far too often imho.
I think people here are mostly keeping an eye on Poole because they like him. Certainly that's the case with me.
You can still be fond of Poole, and realize that he may not have been the best fit on the team. There is no question he was an offense-only kind of player.
I think he'll be a lot of fun on Washington, which has no real title hopes. It's an open question to whether he can be the number 1/number 2 guy on a team with title aspirations.
Beyond that, there are a few people who feel he may very well have said something unforgivable, that led to the punch.
I really haven't seen Poole getting trashed much just for being gone. Some, yes, but a very small amount. Mostly, the criticisms are specific and justified.
"I think people here are mostly keeping an eye on Poole because they like him."
With all due respect, I think thats BS. The vast majority of time, whenever people mention Poole, its almost always within a negative context.
Even when Poole had his 40 pt game in the preseason, people rushed to criticize him talking about how he had meh plus minus (as if single game plus minus means anything). Then, when he has poor games in preseason they use it as evidence of his inefficiency. Yet, those same people rarely if ever talk about Klay's TS% being 3% lower.
"Beyond that, there are a few people who feel he may very well have said something unforgivable, that led to the punch."
I also think this is bullshit. Firstly, it don't matter what he said, that doesn't mean you should get punched for it. Secondly, we know what he said to Draymond ("You're an expensive backpack for 30"). That is in no way bad enough to make Draymond's punch at least understandable. Anyone who punches in reaction to that has the emotional control of a five year old.
"I really haven't seen Poole getting trashed much just for being gone."
Then you've not been paying attention. I have, because its a general trend I generally see with fans. Saw it back when I was a Raiders fan, and I see it here as a Warriors fan.
Sheesh, Wemby was just swatting our players like flies. It was just a preseason game but I hope we have an answer for him.
Go into his body.
I'm sticking to my Wemby comp being a larger Kevin Garnett.
Coming back here since I finally got around to the game.
That Wembanyama kid is on the fast track to an MVP award. I dunno if he makes all-star in his rookie year, especially in the Western Conference, but it's looking like he'll be there real soon if he isn't already. The rest of the Spurs team played real hard, though, and that's what really won them this game. Second chance points, turnovers, hustle plays, guys like Sochan were working for it. Good for them.
Our 4th quarter group was also working about as hard, and it was awesome to see how fast and connected guys were on defense. I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd-string/garbage time style lineup play as hard and coordinated as our group did. So good.
Moody had his best preseason game for sure; he was a huge positive force the whole time. Podziemski was a couple makes short of being killer, and TJD looked great too.
I think of a lot of young guys as being "a couple years away" from being an NBA player but our rookies are *here*. Yeah they're only at the starting line, but man. It's such a relief to see them step onto the court and be like, yeah, they're playing the game. They're comfortable, they're contributing, they're so much better than last year's rookies (sorry PBJ & Rollins, nothing personal).
Speaking of dudes who have arrived, Kuminga! Loving the evolution of his game and BBIQ, and his improved coachability is visible. See Chris Paul whispering in his ear one play, not long after that he boxes out a defender and earns CP3 an open layup? And I have to say, I hate Paul a lot less when I see him smiling and giving JK recognition for putting it into practice right away. That kind of thing is making this season exciting.
I hope Klay gets his toast heated up for the regular season, because it's gonna be a lot harder if the Captain's jumper isn't wet.
Two days until the regular season!!!
Final preseason TS (with pts per 36)
.749 Šarić (20.6 pts per 36)
.707 Looney (10.3)
.701 Moody (23.1)
.679 Kuminga (29.0)
.675 Curry (28.3)
.659 Paul (13.4)
.615 Jackson-Davis (13.8)
.607 Payton (11.0)
.541 Wiggins (19.3)
.455 Podziemski (10.1)
.455 Quiñones (15.0)
.404 Thompson (15.5)
That top 5 would make a nice starting rotation.
Someone another site proposed a starting 5 of Steph-Moody-Wiggins-Dray-Saric — thought that one had a nice mix of size, skill, shooting and D.
Rotate in CP3, Kuminga, Klay, Loon, and GP2.
I like it. I think MM is going to be one of those players like Loon that looks like he disappears on the court but then you look at the box scores and think "wait what When then that happen" and being pleasantly surprised.
Somewhat more seriously:
I think the most heartening things about this preseason are:
1. TJD looking like he belongs.
But, also:
2. Moody validating last year's playoff run.
Kuminga's ascension was pretty much expected. Kerr is tailoring the second unit to him ... if he doesn't get 15-20 a night, something is wrong.
But, Moody needs to fit in and get his shots wherever. The fact that he's been this productive is impressive. I still think his defense needs a lot of work, but the overall arc is very nice.
Attention, K-Mart shoppers:
We have a lost shot ... if someone finds a 3-point stroke with a captain's hat on it, please bring it to checkout stand 11.
Love it!
Klay…
Did someone already post the article about Draymond Green refusing to make peace with Jordan Poole over dinner? Not great...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/warriors-draymond-green-reportedly-refused-to-make-peace-with-jordan-poole-over-dinner-after-punch/ar-AA1ixbcY
I mean… if the real conflict between the two wasn’t resolved, WTF is the point of a dinner like that? Does Kerr really think conflict resolution is so easy? Maybe Kerr didn’t get the message from Dray and KDs infamous podcast?
I'm guessing the idea was to sit them down to talk it over, and sometimes, the food helps. It's water under the bridge now as far as the team is concerned, but as Steph himself said, it would be nice if they could work it out. To me, it seems like Draymond should NOT be the one turning down such a dinner, but he is who he is.
Nah, F that. These are grown men. Nobody is going to respond well to babysitting.
I bought tickets (and international plane tickets) for my first Warriors game on Dec 22 vs WAS. If neither Poole nor Draymond play I'm going to be a little annoyed...
I was listening to the Ringer Group Chat team rankings, and truly enjoyed listening to Justin and Rob wax about how Denver never had to play a true 5-out team like the Celtics… only to have Wos (big Denver/Jokic backer) cackle at them about how Tatum folds in big moments and acknowledge that Denver is great, but didn’t have to deal with Steph last playoffs…
They really got into it in that last installment. Between that podcast and the Simmons over/under ones I listened a lot of NBA preseason reporting this week.
It makes no sense for the Warriors to send Steph Curry out there to jump the tip-off against Victor Wembanyama, who clearly would win the tip-off due to being much taller and having longer arms. What were the Warriors thinking?
They should have had Chris Paul do it.
It got a smile from Pop, which is rare.
LOL. But Curry's sense of fun and play perfectly fit the occasion, while Chris Paul's more dour demeanor - well, maybe it would have been a chance for him to show a lighter side. The fact is I've never seen Chris Paul smile as much as I have in all his years in the league as now playing with the Dubs. Of course, he was generally on the wrong side of a beat-down in those other years....but does he even look like he's having fun on his commercials?
There is no doubt in my mind that Chris Paul would have won the tap.
After Wemby was doubled over by a move that CP3 has used in the past…
And if not, CP3 would flop and claim Wemby fouled him on the jump.
Has anyone ever smiled when selling insurance?
He's fun to watch. I hope he can stay on the court. There may be a physical limit to his endurance - I expect to see drop off at the end of games and later in the season. But with time and experience, he may figure out how to overcome those issues.
Meanwhile, Moody and JK are playing well. What will it take for them to get more playing time?
Anthony Slater brought up the Moody issue on 2 recent podcasts. Saying that currently he is like #10 in the rotation, ahead of the rookies and CoJo, but behind pretty much everyone else. Also noted that that seems to be the case every year, but then he ends up playing 25 min a game by the playoffs. I mean, not a terrible issue to have, and better this year if he is buried behind CP and GPII instead of Ty Jerome.
They thought JK was like #7 or 8 currently in the rotation, and expect him to get time, but mostly with the second unit. But, like Aaannnd1 said, they'll probably see their time mostly when the vets are resting or injured.
Moody is the best shooter on the bench. If Kerr wants spacing, he’s calling on Moody over CP3, JK, Saric, or GP2. That’s meaningful. He needs to be competent defensively, but that’s a real path to minutes.
Resting Klay and Draymond?
OT seeing Killers of the Flower Moon tonight. My kids are Ndn and I know I’m gonna bawl my eyes out.
My showing starts in 5 minutes
Reads dnhq while sitting jn theatre waiting for show to start
Ando wins diehard dnhqer of the day!
Armen Gilliam. Keith Van Horn. Brandon Miller.
If the Spurs had picked #2 instead of number 1.
Well, probably Scoot this year, but still a drop off there
Nah. No significant dropoff if any with Scoot
You’d consider taking Scoot over Wemby?
That ranks alongside 'What if Al Gore had won Florida in 2000?' in the annals of unending hypotheticals.
Sigh
No iraq invasion, no afghanistan invasion
A much healthier world
Sigh again
Wemby looks generational. I still think he has a high injury risk but man, looks like the best prospect I’ve seen since Lebron
Wemby is the best prospect since Zion. Who was the best prospect since Wiggins. Who was the best prospect since AD. Who was the best prospect since LeBron. Who was in Trainwreck with Matthew Broderick. Who was in She's Having a Baby with Kevin Bacon
Age does not matter when you’re star. Drjimxlaw64.gmail.com
Steph is the best prospect since LeBron, just people were too hidebound to see it.
Better than LeBron, without hyperbole. Without injury, he's gonna be the goat. With ...?
True or not, “best prospect since LeBron” seems to be a curse more than a title, everyone we’ve seen who has been called that has struggled HEAVILY in one way or another.
It must be an incredible amount of pressure on a young athlete. I guess it comes with the territory, but is anyone helped by such comparisons?
I think his nickname should simply be "The Victor"
So he should be receiving "The Spoils"
There will be a lot of them for him to receive
I don’t know, man. Something about the Spurs winning the lottery in the year Wemby comes out still doesn’t sit right with me. That team has had enough success. They need to be in the dark ages for a bit more.
Umm… what?
Wemby only played a half. He could have scored fifty. It's a real problem for the W's considering the rest of the Spurs could;t miss from deep, and Klay and Steph were impotent.
He wasn’t close to scoring 50 with any amount of court time. We’ll see how he holds up when someone like Kawhi is going straight into his chest 5 times in a game.
I'll wait to see what's a real problem when the regular season starts
He played 5m in the second half, our starters hockey shifted out at the 8:30 mark.
I guess all those “Hims” ads are targeting marketing.
All makes sense now
Wemby was noticeably gassed at times. He made 8/19 shots. He had fewer rebounds than both CP3 and Podz. The eye test is real and he does some amazing things, but let’s see him perform consistently well in meaningful games before crowning him.
Draymond goes a long way to solving both those problems (defense on VW and enabling Klay and Steph).
I think, like with any new player, there is an adjustment period while the league figures him out. In this case, VW's tools are so good, he's going to run wild for a while, but it will settle down (at what level, not sure).
We'll see. Two years from now, though, oy ... I don't know what you do with him then.
I was watching the game while watching Draymond and thinking he’s probably been spending a lot of time figuring out how to guard Wemby.
With his size and skill set at just 19, I think there might more that he can learn about basketball than basketball can learn about him.
True, but probably not all this year, since he's so young. That's what I meant about the two years in the future stuff.
While there were some minutes where Wemby absolutely dominated the Dubs, I am not worried heading into the season about:
a) Wemby scoring 50 on us
b) The Spurs not missing from deep
c) Klay and Steph being, as you say, impotent
It's not just about Wemby scoring 50, it's about Wemby blocking all the shots. Totally shut us down for a while there.
yep.
Kuminga had to put World B. Free levels of arc on that one shot he made from the left corner.
The season will be entertaining, for sure. Last night, though, our guys seemed half asleep.
Almost as if they were looking past this game as though it’s meaningless to them, right?
The starters, sure, but I thought the young guys showed a lot of guts.
Nate Duncan praising Podz on Warriors Plus Minus with Slater: "He leaves the possession in a better place than he found it". Yeah, that's it.
That's a great quote. And that describes the type of player that people generally love to play with.
…and tend to fit especially well at GSW.