Bogut saying that the Dubs turned down a Lonzo trade (for Oubre, another player and a pick)
@GSWReddit
Bogut on Oubre:
"I have it on good authority that they had an offer actually for Lonzo Ball and I think a throw-in, a pick, for Oubre and the Warriors turned it down funnily enough, but I thought that was a pretty good deal to shed some salary and get a pick back."
If true someone needs to be fired, lonzo is perfect, he's a rfa.
Oubre clearly doesn't fit, has horrible IQ and is not even good on defense, his only defensive ability is deflections and reaching, he's constantly blown by
Phrasing, but yeah. Ball is a much better basketball player, and a great fit in Kerrball to boot. Plus both players would have returned to their home states.
Both impending FA, but I’d be more comfortable giving a multi-year deal to Ball at ~$20M than the same deal for Kelly O.
Hard to believe they would have turned that deal straight up, let alone with a pick thrown in. If they did ... ugh.
I don't think there's anyway there that stupid so I'm going to call this false lol I also don't understand why pelicans would trade lonzo and a pick for oubre, especially when lonzo has such great chemistry with zion.
If that's true I take back everything positive I said about the warriors FO. Lonzo is a perfect fit for Kerr ball, and a steph-lonzo-klay-wiggs-dray deathsquad not to mention a competent ball handler for when steph and dray sit... damn
If true, it must have happened when Oubre had suddenly started shooting 45% on threes or whatever it was, and moving in the offense better than Wiggins. I definitely wouldn't have predicted at the time that he'd go back into a slump like the beginning of the season record setting slump in the second half.
The moribund running attack is one of the biggest disappointments of the season for me. Last night Wiggs got a steal and cruised in for easy dunk-layup, and I practically did a double take cos it felt like our first easy fastbreak bucket in like five games.
Going into the season I had no illusions that Wiggins-Oubre-Wiseman would turn into elite halfcourt players, but I did fantasize about them (and the uber-athletic Chriss, sigh) getting out in the open court and destroying teams with their length, speed, and athleticism. Our combo of poor rebounding and non-stop fouling has too often squelched that dream. Sigh.
Yep, this was exactly the dream. Especially when Oubre and Wiggins racked up all those steals and blocks early in the season, felt like they just had to catch a little Warriors spark to start pushing the ball more.
> I did fantasize about them (and the uber-athletic Chriss, sigh) getting out in the open court and destroying teams with their length, speed, and athleticism
I had this same fantasy. Similar to the swarming defenses we had in '14-16 but with way more athleticism and length than we've ever had.
The really frustrating part is that both problems that are preventing us from doing this are fixable issues related to focus. After the Miami game, Spoelstra mentioned how our team misses Klay but probably Andre just as much too... Andre was always referred to the "adult in the room" by Kerr and it's really starting to show. Steph and Dray are great players but far from the guys you look to in terms of discipline (eg. Steph with his careless TOs, Dray with his emotions) and so I think there's a huge hole in that area of leadership.
I keep thinking back to the Warriors saying, "We're looking to get younger," a couple years ago and realizing that that was the beginning of the end.
Not that the team could have stayed with the exact same guys continuing to get older, but the only way the team could have sustained its excellence is if guys who were rookies during the previous championship runs were coming into their own now. The only one who's actually worked out that way is Looney, and he's more of a rotation player / 6th man level guy. Meanwhile, Ian Clark is barely relevant on whatever team he's on now (NOP?), 3-time champ Pat McCaw is a punchline, McAdoo is out of the league, Evans is looking kind of alright for Santa Cruz, Boucher is finally having a season... for the Raptors. Damian Jones is filling space on a Lakers team that's just trying to get healthy. Did I miss any?
Injuries are unpredictable and unfair, though it's normal that people get injured more when they're older. It's only partly a coincidence that Klay tore an ACL and an achilles at a similar age to KD, etc.
I still wonder what this team would be like if they hadn't tried to get so fancy with the KD/DAR sign and trade. Say they let KD walk, Livingston still retires, Iguodala stays. Yeah, they have one less max contract player, but they're also not nearly as deep into the luxury tax and are more willing to dip into it to pay for guys who can actually contribute to strength in numbers. Maybe they could have offered Javale McGee some of that MLE money and a consistent starting role instead of whiffing on WCS.
Anyway, I'm wasting my time with these what-ifs, but the Warriors have wasted enough of my time with ugly, shitty basketball lately that I feel compelled to post it.
What exactly have we missed out on in the draft? Between the draft and cap/tax, the league is designed to make it hard to stay on top for long periods... if you're bad, you get dibs on cheap, young talent... if you're good, you get the leftovers and the prime talent that you already have gets much more expensive.
1) You know what helps having a good bench? Being able to afford it because all 4 of your best players are either outperforming rookie scale contracts, or criminally underpaid because of creaky ankles
2) Then, when that bench ages out or goes after money, those 4 guys that were cheap are now hella expensive, you no longer have good money to offer for the most coveted players
3) Those guys are all hella expensive because they are all really really good at basketball - which means any pick you get is going to be a total flyer at the end of the 1st round
This gotta stop. Draymond needs to take these wide open 3s. He's shooting 36% on 2.3 attempts since the all star break, and it looks like he's getting good arc on his shots. Take more 3s!!! Unless when he takes more his percentage takes a dive but until then might as well launch it.
This team is cursed by a bunch of anti-Draymonds, players who show up in the box score but aren't really that good -- Wiggins, Oubre, Wiseman, Paschall, Poole... I really hope next year we can find some guys who play above their numbers, or at least play the ones we have together more often.
I'll take the counterpoint on Wiggins, he has actually been pretty good, even not max contract good. In this loss he had 3 fouls in 35 minutes which isn't unreasonable, 2 steals, didn't turn the ball over, shot 50% overall and 43% on his 3s and generally played pretty good defense. The only place he really fell down was missing free throws. If everybody on the team had done as well, the Warriors would have won easily.
Also interesting the guys you omitted; Bazemore and Lee had a disastrous game with 8 fouls and 3 turnovers between them in 20 minutes of work and made 1 of 7 3s between them.
And JTA had 3 fouls in 5 minutes... that's real bad. The "Draymonds" didn't contribute to winning this game, almost the whole team is playing bad right now, from the shooters to the Draymonds. Wiggins is looking around going "maybe I need to get traded to a contender."
Forgot that, fair point. Two fouls in 5 minutes does still match him with the Base/Lee rate for this game, though of course it's a tiny sample and unlucky. JTA did also get destroyed inside by Siakam/Raptors in the previous game, though, right from the beginning of the game. I do think the general lower level of play across the team is true right now.
3D, let's clear up the tanking issue. There is none. The Warriors didn't need to tank because they are not very good to begin with. Dray close to a triple double, Curry putting up 37 is not a convincing tank narrative. Curry and Dray are still not 100% healthy. But what lost this game was the bench. We have a very poor one and Atlanta has Gallinari and L. Williams, two prolific scorers who will torch you. Atlanta is clearly the better team. If you want to tank, why not leave Wiseman and Poole in to 'develop' their subpar games? No need to, the Warriors are subpar to begin with. Next season should be a different story, so let's grin and bear it.
"Bob, I want to tank but I don't want the bad PR. I need you to construct a team that's precisely bad enough that they can try hard but lose all the time anyway."
"Sure Joe, but it might be difficult to strike that exact balance."
"Here's $170 million plus another $150 in taxes, get it done."
Tanking isn't done by players, it's done by front offices. A way of tanking is playing James Wiseman 25 mpg. Another way of doing it is not putting in Steph Curry at the 7:30 minute mark when the game was tied but rather doing it at the 6 minute mark when the Warriors were down 5. It is also done by playing Nico Mannion and Eric Paschall rather than JTA.
Not "chasing wins" might also be construed as tanking. We are not hard tanking by any means (see Rockets and Thunder), but we are stealth tanking (disguised as development). There is a subtle difference.
That is a mis-labeling of what tanking really is. This team is already subpar. How can you not play your #2 pick. Jessup is in Australia for cap reasons and cap reasons are one of the big weaknesses the Warriors have. They are between a rock and hard place. Poor drafts, big contracts, and little thought for their future. They are mostly relying on their image of what they used to be.
just for a snarkless reply, my original "definition" request was just saying that your definition of tanking is no better supported than others.
> The Warriors didn't need to tank because they are not very good to begin with.
That's why I was asking for a citation - because there's nothing (to me) in the definition of tanking that has anything to do with how good the team was coming into the season. If you are making intentional moves that make the team worse, to me, that's tanking.
Citation for this claim please. Not a rebuttal, but an actual citation for the definition not including teams with inherent issues coming into the season
> That is a mis-labeling of what tanking really is. This team is already subpar
Not if the right rotations and players that we know contribute to winning basketball were being played. If so we'd see a lot more JTA, Wanamaker would still be here, and we wouldn't be seeing the rookies and sophs.
What you are looking at is Kerr experimenting and trying to find something that works, nothing to do with the FO. Stop projecting this scenario. It is not how they operate.
They are 50% towards finding something that works. Paschall is out for at least 2 weeks. If Wiseman has anything that prevents him from playing, the team will go on a run.
Kerr’s trying to find something that works while also starting a player that should only see the floor in garbage time in a meritocracy. I think I listened to a podcast that described the very issue the Warriors are facing. It was about corporate structure and used the parable of a company based in a small town that had to hire cronies of a small town mayor to be able to do business in the town but also had to conduct the rest of its business based upon merit or it would go bankrupt.
The FO has almost certainly asked Kerr to play Wiseman (quite possibly the worst player in the NBA this year) and possibly also the young guys (Poole, Mannion and EP) more.
And I do not believe for a second that the FO has no input on Steph's minutes.
That was before my time lol. I do remember the dark ages after the we believe years though. Who was that short point guard with long dreads?
But really I didn't expect anything from those teams similar to last year. This team should not be 10th in the west. Blazers had way more injuries than us and is in the 6th (?) seed. Last year's team was way less infuriating than this year's.
I would say we're in win now also. We may be doing more development but we're still trying to win. It's not like our vets are doing all that they can to win. Steph had another automatic pass to dray after a pnr that went straight to the defender in a crucial moment. He's done this before also
Tell that to steph and Draymond. I don't get how fans can have that mindset. It's one thing to think that for a rebuilding team but we have one of the greatest players ever in his prime. As long as he's on this team, I'll always think there's a chance and I'm sure the team feels that way too.
Steph Curry and Draymond Green were again +8 and +9 respectively in a 6 point loss despite playing the majority of their minutes with James Wiseman.
Bad shooting, stupid fouling and bad turnovers (with Steph being the chief culprit) lost them this game. We allowed (or rather gifted) one of the best FT shooters in the game 15 FTAs on 8 shots.
Long term, we might be getting 2 lottery picks in the draft though. And hopefully, after this lost year where you had a prime Steph Curry and are barely finishing in the top 10 in the West, they will eat humble pie and understand that there is a reason why championship teams seldom have young players. We are not and were never "light-years ahead", we used to be "Steph, Klay, Dray, KD and Iggy ahead". Now that we don't have most of them, it has quickly become apparent that all the hoopla around the organization was not earned, especially as one of the most crucial pieces behind the dynasty is not even there anymore (Jerry West).
The Bulls learned this post 1998 - it is very rarely the organization that wins, but rather it is the players that win. The San Antonio Spurs threading the needle doesn't happen very frequently at all, and usually happens when you're able to draft world-beaters late in the draft (Parker, Ginobili and Leonard). Hell, even recently, they've been able to draft Keldon Johnson, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray and plenty more that I'm forgetting while the only true draft successes we've had since the HB/Ezeli/Dray draft are Looney at 30 and maybe Poole at 26?
Considering we have high draft picks incoming, we need to fix our drafting process. If that means the owner's son needs to be jettisoned, then so be it.
But we are historically bad at drafting in recent years. I don't want to rely on the draft to put up a winning team next season and I don't think a player like Suggs is going to slot in and dominate. He might be good in the future, but the Warriors need a power move, NOW.
Historically bad is selecting Joe Barry Carroll #1 overall (while trading Robert Parish and the Ws own pick to the Celtics who used the pick on Kevin McHale), Sam Bowie #1 (ahead of MJ), Chris Washburn #3 ahead of literally anyone, etc. Thankfully the Ws only did 2 of those 3 things.
Not saying they've been (ahem) *Lightyears* at drafting recently, but it's hard to actually be historically bad when you're picking 30th every year.
Agreed. High draft picks and good drafting gives you the assets required to trade for a star. No one is giving up an all-star calibre player for James Wiseman and a 2nd rounder. They might for James Wiseman, the #4 pick and the #12 pick and maybe other FRPs and pick swaps. The Bulls just got Vuc for 2 protected FRPs and WCJ.
Long-term we are still 1 great move away from contention. This year, in non-Wiseman Steph minutes, we're 1st in ORTG and 2nd in NRTG (IIRC).
The last 2 championships have been one because a star wanted out (Kawhi and AD). This year might make it 3 in a row with Harden and the Nets. We need another perimeter star to want out and we should have a competitive package with our pick + Minn pick and Wiseman as a reclamation project and maybe Paschall and Poole. Whether that's KAT or Beal or if the Clippers flame out, Kawhi/PG, we just need one thing to go very well for us and I think we're right there next year.
For example, a lineup of Steph + Beal + Klay + Dray + vet makes us very competitive. That vet could be a 3 and D guy like PJ Tucker or Danny Green or a big like Richaun Holmes or Nerlens Noel. If we get a start + Klay back, good vets will join for ring-chasing.
I think we are two moves away. Another big guy and another wing player who can shoot 3's. Oubre's lack of a 3 point shot is painful and defeats a lot of the system's chances for scoring. Poole is another inconsistent shooter whom the Warriors are hoping for a miracle to transform him.
It might not have lost us this game (there's plenty of blame to go around there), but we might have won the game despite everything (due to Dray + Steph) if they played more non-Wiseman lineups.
The image in my head is Kerr shouting "no more fouls, guys!" repeatedly during pregame, and Bazemore hearing only the last three words and getting excited.
Don't forget the 8 turnovers. I know Curry tends to make mistakes sometimes (like the vs. Hornets game in February), but I've never seen him commit EIGHT turnovers in a single game before.
Bogut saying that the Dubs turned down a Lonzo trade (for Oubre, another player and a pick)
@GSWReddit
Bogut on Oubre:
"I have it on good authority that they had an offer actually for Lonzo Ball and I think a throw-in, a pick, for Oubre and the Warriors turned it down funnily enough, but I thought that was a pretty good deal to shed some salary and get a pick back."
If true someone needs to be fired, lonzo is perfect, he's a rfa.
Oubre clearly doesn't fit, has horrible IQ and is not even good on defense, his only defensive ability is deflections and reaching, he's constantly blown by
Phrasing, but yeah. Ball is a much better basketball player, and a great fit in Kerrball to boot. Plus both players would have returned to their home states.
Both impending FA, but I’d be more comfortable giving a multi-year deal to Ball at ~$20M than the same deal for Kelly O.
Hard to believe they would have turned that deal straight up, let alone with a pick thrown in. If they did ... ugh.
I don't think there's anyway there that stupid so I'm going to call this false lol I also don't understand why pelicans would trade lonzo and a pick for oubre, especially when lonzo has such great chemistry with zion.
If that's true I take back everything positive I said about the warriors FO. Lonzo is a perfect fit for Kerr ball, and a steph-lonzo-klay-wiggs-dray deathsquad not to mention a competent ball handler for when steph and dray sit... damn
If true, it must have happened when Oubre had suddenly started shooting 45% on threes or whatever it was, and moving in the offense better than Wiggins. I definitely wouldn't have predicted at the time that he'd go back into a slump like the beginning of the season record setting slump in the second half.
We're a net -2.1 per game right now (22nd in the league). We allow a league-worst 20.5 made FTs per game... the median is 17 per game.
If we were just average at putting teams on the line, we'd be a net +1.4 and probably around 7th in the West (12th overall).
And that's not even factoring in that we'd be able to get our running more often.
The moribund running attack is one of the biggest disappointments of the season for me. Last night Wiggs got a steal and cruised in for easy dunk-layup, and I practically did a double take cos it felt like our first easy fastbreak bucket in like five games.
Going into the season I had no illusions that Wiggins-Oubre-Wiseman would turn into elite halfcourt players, but I did fantasize about them (and the uber-athletic Chriss, sigh) getting out in the open court and destroying teams with their length, speed, and athleticism. Our combo of poor rebounding and non-stop fouling has too often squelched that dream. Sigh.
Yep, this was exactly the dream. Especially when Oubre and Wiggins racked up all those steals and blocks early in the season, felt like they just had to catch a little Warriors spark to start pushing the ball more.
Same. This team was built to run and it did not happen as much as it needed to in order to overcome the subpar halfcourt offense personnel.
> I did fantasize about them (and the uber-athletic Chriss, sigh) getting out in the open court and destroying teams with their length, speed, and athleticism
I had this same fantasy. Similar to the swarming defenses we had in '14-16 but with way more athleticism and length than we've ever had.
The really frustrating part is that both problems that are preventing us from doing this are fixable issues related to focus. After the Miami game, Spoelstra mentioned how our team misses Klay but probably Andre just as much too... Andre was always referred to the "adult in the room" by Kerr and it's really starting to show. Steph and Dray are great players but far from the guys you look to in terms of discipline (eg. Steph with his careless TOs, Dray with his emotions) and so I think there's a huge hole in that area of leadership.
I keep thinking back to the Warriors saying, "We're looking to get younger," a couple years ago and realizing that that was the beginning of the end.
Not that the team could have stayed with the exact same guys continuing to get older, but the only way the team could have sustained its excellence is if guys who were rookies during the previous championship runs were coming into their own now. The only one who's actually worked out that way is Looney, and he's more of a rotation player / 6th man level guy. Meanwhile, Ian Clark is barely relevant on whatever team he's on now (NOP?), 3-time champ Pat McCaw is a punchline, McAdoo is out of the league, Evans is looking kind of alright for Santa Cruz, Boucher is finally having a season... for the Raptors. Damian Jones is filling space on a Lakers team that's just trying to get healthy. Did I miss any?
Injuries are unpredictable and unfair, though it's normal that people get injured more when they're older. It's only partly a coincidence that Klay tore an ACL and an achilles at a similar age to KD, etc.
I still wonder what this team would be like if they hadn't tried to get so fancy with the KD/DAR sign and trade. Say they let KD walk, Livingston still retires, Iguodala stays. Yeah, they have one less max contract player, but they're also not nearly as deep into the luxury tax and are more willing to dip into it to pay for guys who can actually contribute to strength in numbers. Maybe they could have offered Javale McGee some of that MLE money and a consistent starting role instead of whiffing on WCS.
Anyway, I'm wasting my time with these what-ifs, but the Warriors have wasted enough of my time with ugly, shitty basketball lately that I feel compelled to post it.
Lol I actually completely forgot about WCS's stint here until you reminded me.
Kind of what happens when you get nothing out of the draft for 6 years.
What exactly have we missed out on in the draft? Between the draft and cap/tax, the league is designed to make it hard to stay on top for long periods... if you're bad, you get dibs on cheap, young talent... if you're good, you get the leftovers and the prime talent that you already have gets much more expensive.
Yeah, that's actually how it's supposed to be, and the difficult hill that the Warriors have to climb, made moreso by injuries.
Eh, these are all connected issues.
1) You know what helps having a good bench? Being able to afford it because all 4 of your best players are either outperforming rookie scale contracts, or criminally underpaid because of creaky ankles
2) Then, when that bench ages out or goes after money, those 4 guys that were cheap are now hella expensive, you no longer have good money to offer for the most coveted players
3) Those guys are all hella expensive because they are all really really good at basketball - which means any pick you get is going to be a total flyer at the end of the 1st round
https://youtu.be/47VpMIMyn4c
This gotta stop. Draymond needs to take these wide open 3s. He's shooting 36% on 2.3 attempts since the all star break, and it looks like he's getting good arc on his shots. Take more 3s!!! Unless when he takes more his percentage takes a dive but until then might as well launch it.
I went back and watched that. It's a split second photo on a double screen play for Steph under the basket.
Yeah, Dray not shooting is an issue, but this exact photo is right in the middle of a play that coulda worked
This team is cursed by a bunch of anti-Draymonds, players who show up in the box score but aren't really that good -- Wiggins, Oubre, Wiseman, Paschall, Poole... I really hope next year we can find some guys who play above their numbers, or at least play the ones we have together more often.
I'll take the counterpoint on Wiggins, he has actually been pretty good, even not max contract good. In this loss he had 3 fouls in 35 minutes which isn't unreasonable, 2 steals, didn't turn the ball over, shot 50% overall and 43% on his 3s and generally played pretty good defense. The only place he really fell down was missing free throws. If everybody on the team had done as well, the Warriors would have won easily.
Also interesting the guys you omitted; Bazemore and Lee had a disastrous game with 8 fouls and 3 turnovers between them in 20 minutes of work and made 1 of 7 3s between them.
And JTA had 3 fouls in 5 minutes... that's real bad. The "Draymonds" didn't contribute to winning this game, almost the whole team is playing bad right now, from the shooters to the Draymonds. Wiggins is looking around going "maybe I need to get traded to a contender."
*The Wiggins part is a joke.
*Probably.
One of the JTA fouls was intentional though, so I wouldn't count that against him.
Forgot that, fair point. Two fouls in 5 minutes does still match him with the Base/Lee rate for this game, though of course it's a tiny sample and unlucky. JTA did also get destroyed inside by Siakam/Raptors in the previous game, though, right from the beginning of the game. I do think the general lower level of play across the team is true right now.
*Baze
Well put... unfortunately
They are not tanking but trying to get good draft picks. So don’t argue about tanking or not 😉
And trying to identify tares to remove at the same time.
Aww, listen to how down Steph sounds in his post game.
They really wanted this one
https://mobile.twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/1378906348406992898
I used to care about what they said in their post games, but after them making the same mistakes over and over, I have become numb
3D, let's clear up the tanking issue. There is none. The Warriors didn't need to tank because they are not very good to begin with. Dray close to a triple double, Curry putting up 37 is not a convincing tank narrative. Curry and Dray are still not 100% healthy. But what lost this game was the bench. We have a very poor one and Atlanta has Gallinari and L. Williams, two prolific scorers who will torch you. Atlanta is clearly the better team. If you want to tank, why not leave Wiseman and Poole in to 'develop' their subpar games? No need to, the Warriors are subpar to begin with. Next season should be a different story, so let's grin and bear it.
This is lightyears.
"Bob, I want to tank but I don't want the bad PR. I need you to construct a team that's precisely bad enough that they can try hard but lose all the time anyway."
"Sure Joe, but it might be difficult to strike that exact balance."
"Here's $170 million plus another $150 in taxes, get it done."
"Oh and play the rook. He's our insurance policy in case Steph starts winning too many games or something."
Tanking isn't done by players, it's done by front offices. A way of tanking is playing James Wiseman 25 mpg. Another way of doing it is not putting in Steph Curry at the 7:30 minute mark when the game was tied but rather doing it at the 6 minute mark when the Warriors were down 5. It is also done by playing Nico Mannion and Eric Paschall rather than JTA.
Not "chasing wins" might also be construed as tanking. We are not hard tanking by any means (see Rockets and Thunder), but we are stealth tanking (disguised as development). There is a subtle difference.
This.
The tank is roster building and player minute allocation. Intentional player or coach input doesn't matter. It's about the team.
No DPE. No waiver players. No Jessup. Big minutes for Wiseman even though he's bad
Then failure to use the DPE or even the full MLE was all the signal you need re this season.
Depends on your interpretation.
That is a mis-labeling of what tanking really is. This team is already subpar. How can you not play your #2 pick. Jessup is in Australia for cap reasons and cap reasons are one of the big weaknesses the Warriors have. They are between a rock and hard place. Poor drafts, big contracts, and little thought for their future. They are mostly relying on their image of what they used to be.
Oh look, it’s a series of sentences, none of which follows logically from the previous.
Find something real to talk about, please.
just for a snarkless reply, my original "definition" request was just saying that your definition of tanking is no better supported than others.
> The Warriors didn't need to tank because they are not very good to begin with.
That's why I was asking for a citation - because there's nothing (to me) in the definition of tanking that has anything to do with how good the team was coming into the season. If you are making intentional moves that make the team worse, to me, that's tanking.
Citation for this claim please. Not a rebuttal, but an actual citation for the definition not including teams with inherent issues coming into the season
> That is a mis-labeling of what tanking really is. This team is already subpar
The team is already subpar. Do we need a definition for that?
Not if the right rotations and players that we know contribute to winning basketball were being played. If so we'd see a lot more JTA, Wanamaker would still be here, and we wouldn't be seeing the rookies and sophs.
No evidence of this in this game.
Yeah, this game they wanted to win and failed. Agree with you there. Was looking at the season as a whole.
What you are looking at is Kerr experimenting and trying to find something that works, nothing to do with the FO. Stop projecting this scenario. It is not how they operate.
They are 50% towards finding something that works. Paschall is out for at least 2 weeks. If Wiseman has anything that prevents him from playing, the team will go on a run.
Kerr’s trying to find something that works while also starting a player that should only see the floor in garbage time in a meritocracy. I think I listened to a podcast that described the very issue the Warriors are facing. It was about corporate structure and used the parable of a company based in a small town that had to hire cronies of a small town mayor to be able to do business in the town but also had to conduct the rest of its business based upon merit or it would go bankrupt.
That is not the "very issue" unless you think Wiseman is a glorified Smailagic. Do you think that?
The FO has almost certainly asked Kerr to play Wiseman (quite possibly the worst player in the NBA this year) and possibly also the young guys (Poole, Mannion and EP) more.
And I do not believe for a second that the FO has no input on Steph's minutes.
Yes, but that should not be construed as tanking.
Excuse my language but fudge this team
hey, if you rooted for Speedy Claxton, you can root for this team!
That was before my time lol. I do remember the dark ages after the we believe years though. Who was that short point guard with long dreads?
But really I didn't expect anything from those teams similar to last year. This team should not be 10th in the west. Blazers had way more injuries than us and is in the 6th (?) seed. Last year's team was way less infuriating than this year's.
Yeah but Blazers have their team, ya know?
The Warriors "team" has Klay, a better Wiseman, and/or whatever the offseason can bring us.
The Blazers are in win now mode
I would say we're in win now also. We may be doing more development but we're still trying to win. It's not like our vets are doing all that they can to win. Steph had another automatic pass to dray after a pnr that went straight to the defender in a crucial moment. He's done this before also
Without Klay, we weren't winning this year outside a miracle. We are in "develop for next year" mode...
Tell that to steph and Draymond. I don't get how fans can have that mindset. It's one thing to think that for a rebuilding team but we have one of the greatest players ever in his prime. As long as he's on this team, I'll always think there's a chance and I'm sure the team feels that way too.
Steph Curry and Draymond Green were again +8 and +9 respectively in a 6 point loss despite playing the majority of their minutes with James Wiseman.
Bad shooting, stupid fouling and bad turnovers (with Steph being the chief culprit) lost them this game. We allowed (or rather gifted) one of the best FT shooters in the game 15 FTAs on 8 shots.
Long term, we might be getting 2 lottery picks in the draft though. And hopefully, after this lost year where you had a prime Steph Curry and are barely finishing in the top 10 in the West, they will eat humble pie and understand that there is a reason why championship teams seldom have young players. We are not and were never "light-years ahead", we used to be "Steph, Klay, Dray, KD and Iggy ahead". Now that we don't have most of them, it has quickly become apparent that all the hoopla around the organization was not earned, especially as one of the most crucial pieces behind the dynasty is not even there anymore (Jerry West).
The Bulls learned this post 1998 - it is very rarely the organization that wins, but rather it is the players that win. The San Antonio Spurs threading the needle doesn't happen very frequently at all, and usually happens when you're able to draft world-beaters late in the draft (Parker, Ginobili and Leonard). Hell, even recently, they've been able to draft Keldon Johnson, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray and plenty more that I'm forgetting while the only true draft successes we've had since the HB/Ezeli/Dray draft are Looney at 30 and maybe Poole at 26?
Considering we have high draft picks incoming, we need to fix our drafting process. If that means the owner's son needs to be jettisoned, then so be it.
But we are historically bad at drafting in recent years. I don't want to rely on the draft to put up a winning team next season and I don't think a player like Suggs is going to slot in and dominate. He might be good in the future, but the Warriors need a power move, NOW.
Historically bad is selecting Joe Barry Carroll #1 overall (while trading Robert Parish and the Ws own pick to the Celtics who used the pick on Kevin McHale), Sam Bowie #1 (ahead of MJ), Chris Washburn #3 ahead of literally anyone, etc. Thankfully the Ws only did 2 of those 3 things.
Not saying they've been (ahem) *Lightyears* at drafting recently, but it's hard to actually be historically bad when you're picking 30th every year.
Agree the Ws need to make a move next season.
Agreed. High draft picks and good drafting gives you the assets required to trade for a star. No one is giving up an all-star calibre player for James Wiseman and a 2nd rounder. They might for James Wiseman, the #4 pick and the #12 pick and maybe other FRPs and pick swaps. The Bulls just got Vuc for 2 protected FRPs and WCJ.
I've always coveted Vucevic.
you know, we were just talking in the writer's Slack, and if anything, this little snippet is a cause for hope honestly
> Steph Curry and Draymond Green were again +8 and +9 respectively in a 6 point loss
Klay comes back, which bumps Oubre (assuming he returns) down the depth chart.
Long-term we are still 1 great move away from contention. This year, in non-Wiseman Steph minutes, we're 1st in ORTG and 2nd in NRTG (IIRC).
The last 2 championships have been one because a star wanted out (Kawhi and AD). This year might make it 3 in a row with Harden and the Nets. We need another perimeter star to want out and we should have a competitive package with our pick + Minn pick and Wiseman as a reclamation project and maybe Paschall and Poole. Whether that's KAT or Beal or if the Clippers flame out, Kawhi/PG, we just need one thing to go very well for us and I think we're right there next year.
For example, a lineup of Steph + Beal + Klay + Dray + vet makes us very competitive. That vet could be a 3 and D guy like PJ Tucker or Danny Green or a big like Richaun Holmes or Nerlens Noel. If we get a start + Klay back, good vets will join for ring-chasing.
I think we are two moves away. Another big guy and another wing player who can shoot 3's. Oubre's lack of a 3 point shot is painful and defeats a lot of the system's chances for scoring. Poole is another inconsistent shooter whom the Warriors are hoping for a miracle to transform him.
Wiseman was a +3. He wasn't hurting steph and drays +/- today
I'm pretty sure that lead would've been higher with Loon at the 5 or Dray at the 5.
Possibly but that's not what lost us the game. Not even close
I'd really like to see a more set rotation for Wiseman. Just give him whatever slot in the rotation and honor it.
I think that's killing his development also. He doesn't know when he'll get minutes and he presses when he's in
It might not have lost us this game (there's plenty of blame to go around there), but we might have won the game despite everything (due to Dray + Steph) if they played more non-Wiseman lineups.
For sure but they also could have won if they ran dray at the 5 exclusively. It is what it is
Yikes. Warriors bench was awful tonight.
19 points 8/26 FGs 1/12 threes 2/2 FTs
12 rebounds (2 off.) 8 assists 3 turnovers 2 blocks 2 steals 16 fouls
That's an amazing line... for 1 player.
I take it back, the efficiency is garbage.
@KerithBurke
Warriors fouls: 26
Warriors assists: 25.
Kerr: "The lack of discipline killed us." Said they talk about fouls every day. Repeated that emphasis pregame.
The image in my head is Kerr shouting "no more fouls, guys!" repeatedly during pregame, and Bazemore hearing only the last three words and getting excited.
Notable stats:
Warriors:
Curry: (+8)
37 points 12/23 FGs 3/12 three pointers 10/12 FTs
5 rebounds (1 off.) 2 assists 8 turnovers 2 steals 1 block
Wiggins: (+3)
16 points 6/12 FGs 3/7 three pointers 1/4 FTs
5 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals
Green: (+9)
11 points 4/6 FGs 1/2 three pointers 2/3 FTs
7 rebounds (2 off.) 11 assists 4 turnovers 4 steals
Oubre: (-4)
20 points 9/16 FGs 2/6 three pointers
11 rebounds (3 off.) 2 assists 1 turnover 2 steals 3 blocks
Hawks:
Capela: (-3)
24 points 10/16 FGs 4/6 FTs
18 rebounds (5 off.) 1 turnover 1 steal 2 blocks
Gallinari: (+12)
25 points 5/8 FGs 2/5 three pointers 13/15 FTs
10 rebounds 1 turnover
Williams: (+19)
15 points 5/15 FGs 2/3 three pointers 3/3 FTs
3 rebounds (1 off.) 2 assists 2 turnovers 1 steal
Huerter: (+7)
10 points 4/11 FGs 2/7 three pointers
1 rebound 4 assists 3 steals
Oubre with some sneaky good stats, but he still brain farts a little too often.
Dray 3 rebounds short of a triple double
If Curry doesn't go 3 of 12 from deep, we coulda won this
Don't forget the 8 turnovers. I know Curry tends to make mistakes sometimes (like the vs. Hornets game in February), but I've never seen him commit EIGHT turnovers in a single game before.
He managed as many as 11: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201310310LAC.html
But yeah, 8 is no bueno.
Final stats:
Warriors:
46.7% shooting (43/92 FGs)
10/40 three pointers
15/21 FTs
45 rebounds (9 off.)
25 assists
16 turnovers
12 steals
6 blocks
Hawks:
43.2% shooting (35/81 FGs)
12/32 three pointers
35/45 FTs
49 rebounds (10 off.)
19 assists
15 turnovers
10 steals
3 blocks
Points in paint:
Warriors: 62
Hawks: 34
Fastbreak points:
Warriors: 4
Hawks: 0
Points off turnovers:
Warriors: 15
Hawks: 13
Bench points:
Warriors: 19
Hawks: 55