Lots have been said and more will be said about Wiseman, but his future looks very bright. He is BIG out there. I really think the best comp will eventually be Embiid, including missing so much time early in his career. He showed a bit of everything that you'd want to see out of him (dunking, floor running, blocks, rebounding, some nice touch on some shots) while clearly showing he has a lot of room to grow.
He still muffed a few passes, and his defense is coming along but he clearly looks like he's thinking through everything that he does. It reminded me of HB in how you could almost see his brain going "okay, now after this happens, I'm supposed to move here, and then go here" rather than just doing it freely in the flow of the game. It's completely understandable at his stage, but he'll certainly need to grow beyond that. What this does show me is that he is trying really hard to work within the flow of Kerr's system. That will come. When it does???
Imagine if Wiseman/Poole/Moody/Kuminga develop the same sort of long term rapport as Steph/Klay/Draymond/Andre? The sky is really the limit for this group if they are able to stay together long term. And I know several of you will throw PBJ into the mix as well. It's insane to legitimately have a young core who could grow into a stellar starting five. Will all five stick around long term? Probably not, but the potential is there!
I think a Stockton and Malone comp could actually be a really great example of what we *could* see out of say Poole and Wiseman. Very different players, for sure, but that sort of connection long term would keep this team competing at a high level for another decade plus. I also don't think that Curry, Draymond, and Andre have had this legitimate of a lob threat to play with since... McGee??? I think this season is going to be lots of fun, mixed with lots of growing pains!
Wiseman just scored 20 points against NBA talent!!! I don't care that it was an exhibition game... I'm really high on the kid.
Creates a mini-crisis if Steph-Klay-Dray stay healthy and want to keep playing for championships. How long are the young guys supposed to wait? But it's a heck of a problem to have...
I remember a few days back where someone (not a DNHQ'er) was saying our top six players were really good, but that any second unit that contains Kuminga, Moody, and Wiseman was kind of ugly.
I wonder what they think tonight.
Looks like the core of a pretty good second unit to me. I stand by my comment at the time that Moody, Kuminga, Wiseman, Poole, Klay is an effing great second unit.
If Wiggs stays on for the second unit then I can see a team of Poole, Moody, Donte, Wiggs, Wise. If it's Klay then Poole, Donte, Klay, JK/JaMychal, Wise. I still need to see more of JaMaychal. Donte just shone so much in that game that he has to be the 7th man.
yeah, no argument. You can construct better second units than the one I mentioned, just by putting DDV in for Moody or Kuminga. My point was more that the take was ridiculous rather than Moody/Kuminga/Wiseman was our best second unit.
For sure. When Moody was first off the bench I thought it to be an indication that he's the 7th man. Then Donte put on a show. Now I'm thinking he has got to be that glue for the second unit. It'll be fun to see how it shakes out in the next game.
There's a lot for Kerr to work with in our group. Klay is a proven starter with 4 rings on his fingers. To displace him from starting will be almost impossible. Did you see the interview after the game with Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars? Fantastic. Dumars pointed out the invisible bond that exists with multiple ring holders like Steph and Klay. Champions imbibe a different elixir that is rare and Lacob is not going to mess with that.
If the game had ended at halftime I would have already called it the Wiseman and DDV show, but then they came out in the 3rd and raised the bar.
I just loved how Wiseman played tonight, he moved so comfortably and always seemed to be in the right position. He let things come to him and was dominant when the moment came.
Great showings from PBJ and Rollins as well, both have my attention.
Clever. But IMO, Wiseman isn't ready to have a nickname yet. He needs to keep showing something. The potential to be nickname-worthy is definitely there.
Alright I know I’ve become a bit of a Patrick Baldwin height truther but there’s no way the man is 6’10 currently. I saw a clip of him standing next to Wiseman and he was almost if not the same height and Wiseman is a legit 7 feet. My guess is he’s grown an inch or two since the combine
“Truth” ≠ “This seemed to be the case in a clip I saw!” 😊
I’d bet you a lot Baldwin is not 6’-11” or 7’-0”. BB-Ref, NBA.con, Wikipedia, etc. all list him at 6’-9”. He could have grown to closer to 6’-10”, but more than that seems highly unlikely to me.
For all intents and purposes PBJ is the same size as Looney, though to my eye he's slightly bigger. Unless you're Kevin Durant if you're 6'9'' and up you're a big. To me it seems clear that Kerr sees in PBJ a high BBIQ stretch 4-5 that he's been seeking for years. A taller and longer guy that he's got 4 years to mold into David West. Personally I think PBJ was a brilliant draft choice.
A transformation into a David West type player from PBJ would be almost miraculous. He's just not anything like West was before he came to the Warriors. He was a banger, a PF who could also jump shoot. PBJ looks like a shooter but not a banger. At present, he is soft. West was 250lbs and could rebound. By the time he came to the Warriors, he was not a banger and couldn't rebound like he could when younger. This is not to say that PBJ won't be a decent player.
The comp I came up with was Mo Speights (among recent Warriors).
Big, not fast, can shoot a 3, needs work on defense. But, there's every chance (since everyone seems to like his BBIQ) that he develops into a more well-rounded player than Speights ever did.
DW entered the league as a 23 year-old rookie. He was 25 before he broke double digits in points and surpassed 4 rbs/game. He never averaged more than 8 boards a game. West averaged 13.6/6.4 over his career. He was 4-7/3-3.5 with the Dubs.
PBJ is 19. It would not be miraculous if he put on 20 lbs in 4 years (he's already 231 and 6"10" in shoes) and he approached 6-7 boards and 10-15 points a game in 4 years. There's no question that PBJ can surpass DW's Warriors numbers while he's on his rookie contract.
PBJ is 10 lbs heavier and an inch taller than Kevon Looney. They both have a 9'2" standing reach.
Is he going to be an all-star? Who knows if he'll even be a NBA starter. But he's really young and has a lot of potential as a sweet shooting big.
Think about his yearly activity. At the draft, with picks so high that seem to belong where prime numbers don't exist anymore, he always manages to bring home some excellent prospects, if not simply outright future all stars. Then, he rummages tirelessly into the FA market leftovers until he brings home enough excellent vets at minimum salary to frighten Jacques Cousteau with our bench's depth. Then a few future HoFs come knocking at his door for a well deserved big bag, and despite this starting a NBA-fueled luxury tax chain reaction that rivals the Tsar Bomba, he manages to keep them happy and motivated and smiling at japanese press and flying on Saitama hardwood.
And after all this, including resizing again and again and again the Chase trophy deck to contain new ones, he never gets a quantum of the recognition and gratitude that he deserves.
Great to see the bench bring their energy and talent to the fight. So much to be optimistic about especially Wiseman and DiVicenzo. Wiseman slammin' and jammin'. Divi dishing, shooting, and rebounding. They can slide in Poole, JFK, Moody, and J Green, and the defense should hold and the offense doesn't suffer. Nice. Very nice.
Even the guys that are on the fringes show some nice talent. Rollins ain't shy, and PBJ looks to be a natural shooter who could develop a deadly perimeter game ala Klay. Defense is another matter but I'll leave that till after the exhibition season with more looks at the players. Several will be playing in Santa Cruz as we need to retool that team. I think that Rollins and J. Robinson could actually make the roster. Both bring a lot of energy and aggressiveness. Rollins needs to work on his finishes. He can get to the basket at will but couldn't finish. His rebounding was impressive but not sure about his defense. Seems like a solid foul shooter. While Robinson looks like a vet, he could be a DLee replacement if he can shoot. He's got the hustle. PBJ looks like a soft player on D. I think he's got to shoot himself on to this team. Also looking forward see more of Trevion. He's the only other big guy who would back Looney/Wise or Dray at C. I don't think Quinones will make the team. I think this will be the final push for Q to be on the roster. He's got a chance but he needs to really step up as the competition has become greater. Let's see what happens Sunday. Maybe we'll see McClung as he should be the wild card in the race for the bench.
Baldwin has a guaranteed 15-man roster spot, whether he “shoots himself onto the team” or not. Rollins’ spot is also guaranteed.
Neither Robinson nor McClung is making the 15-man roster (and it’s unlikely either gets a two-way deal, either). The two two-way deals are currently held by Quinndary and Quiñones.
Yeah, was gonna comment about his hook shot. Seems very flat and fast, like a Skyslap. Not as soft as Kareem's. Will see how it evolves with interest :)
Timpf has been giving the Ws their due. These kinds of rankings mean nothing in a practical sense, but it's nice to see someone knowledgeable admit what should be apparent to all: The Warriors are one of the top teams, if not the top team, in the league. I realize that recent ESPN article was base on a statistical model, but how do you let the model see the light of day when it predicts the Ws as an eighth seed (assuming health)? That alone makes it a stupid model. You'd do better picking teams out of a hat.
Yeah, for me Timpf’s discussions are a good blend of on-court strategy, roster construction, stats, talent evaluation and the “human element” element, such as how the Warriors’ continuity is a big competitive advantage, both on and off the court. He’s really well-spoken, doesn’t holler or give “hot takes” and has a delivery style that makes him seem like a genuinely nice guy.
Random thought: what if some front office who really didn't like LeBron for some reason drafted Bronny and then decided not to sign LeBron. I think the NBA might crash and burn under the weight of the drama that would be sure to ensue!
I'm sure some team will take the bait, but I just can't imagine a functional franchise wanting this deal. LeBron could basically hold the team hostage to get them to play his son. Who needs that, this side of a team looking for a jolt at the box office?
Just watched the game, and I'm ready to sign a one-year lease for a nice place on DDV Island. This guy knows how to play the game and will fit in beautifully with the Dubs. His playmaking, rebounding, and defensive instincts really stand out and he's also a scoring threat. Not gonna buy a place on the island since I'm guessing he'll go GP2/OPJ on us and use this year to build up his value and then get his bag.
Yup… question for Bob: who’s the target for next year? Should be somebody recovering from injury and/or traded to crap team for salary purposes or something
I'm amazed no one is talking about the most important revelation from the game. Weatherspoon has taken over the mantle of a two-way guard with a passable resemblance to Steph if you're watching on your phone or squint a bit. The squad is complete!
New spacious open thread at https://dubnationhq.com/p/open-thread-steph-and-klay-win-japan?sd=pf. Unless Duby has something new, this will end up being the game thread also.
Love the writing as usual Daniel.
However, as somw have noted you missed an easy opening for some godzilla and mothra references! 😀
Lots have been said and more will be said about Wiseman, but his future looks very bright. He is BIG out there. I really think the best comp will eventually be Embiid, including missing so much time early in his career. He showed a bit of everything that you'd want to see out of him (dunking, floor running, blocks, rebounding, some nice touch on some shots) while clearly showing he has a lot of room to grow.
He still muffed a few passes, and his defense is coming along but he clearly looks like he's thinking through everything that he does. It reminded me of HB in how you could almost see his brain going "okay, now after this happens, I'm supposed to move here, and then go here" rather than just doing it freely in the flow of the game. It's completely understandable at his stage, but he'll certainly need to grow beyond that. What this does show me is that he is trying really hard to work within the flow of Kerr's system. That will come. When it does???
Imagine if Wiseman/Poole/Moody/Kuminga develop the same sort of long term rapport as Steph/Klay/Draymond/Andre? The sky is really the limit for this group if they are able to stay together long term. And I know several of you will throw PBJ into the mix as well. It's insane to legitimately have a young core who could grow into a stellar starting five. Will all five stick around long term? Probably not, but the potential is there!
I think a Stockton and Malone comp could actually be a really great example of what we *could* see out of say Poole and Wiseman. Very different players, for sure, but that sort of connection long term would keep this team competing at a high level for another decade plus. I also don't think that Curry, Draymond, and Andre have had this legitimate of a lob threat to play with since... McGee??? I think this season is going to be lots of fun, mixed with lots of growing pains!
Wiseman just scored 20 points against NBA talent!!! I don't care that it was an exhibition game... I'm really high on the kid.
Creates a mini-crisis if Steph-Klay-Dray stay healthy and want to keep playing for championships. How long are the young guys supposed to wait? But it's a heck of a problem to have...
Been away for a minute, missed y'all. Orioles magic had my attention all summer but were unfortunately eliminated today.
Can't believe the seasons here already!!! Young guys played pretty well too based on the highlights
I remember a few days back where someone (not a DNHQ'er) was saying our top six players were really good, but that any second unit that contains Kuminga, Moody, and Wiseman was kind of ugly.
I wonder what they think tonight.
Looks like the core of a pretty good second unit to me. I stand by my comment at the time that Moody, Kuminga, Wiseman, Poole, Klay is an effing great second unit.
If Wiggs stays on for the second unit then I can see a team of Poole, Moody, Donte, Wiggs, Wise. If it's Klay then Poole, Donte, Klay, JK/JaMychal, Wise. I still need to see more of JaMaychal. Donte just shone so much in that game that he has to be the 7th man.
yeah, no argument. You can construct better second units than the one I mentioned, just by putting DDV in for Moody or Kuminga. My point was more that the take was ridiculous rather than Moody/Kuminga/Wiseman was our best second unit.
For sure. When Moody was first off the bench I thought it to be an indication that he's the 7th man. Then Donte put on a show. Now I'm thinking he has got to be that glue for the second unit. It'll be fun to see how it shakes out in the next game.
There's a lot for Kerr to work with in our group. Klay is a proven starter with 4 rings on his fingers. To displace him from starting will be almost impossible. Did you see the interview after the game with Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars? Fantastic. Dumars pointed out the invisible bond that exists with multiple ring holders like Steph and Klay. Champions imbibe a different elixir that is rare and Lacob is not going to mess with that.
Just finished the game and what a treat!
If the game had ended at halftime I would have already called it the Wiseman and DDV show, but then they came out in the 3rd and raised the bar.
I just loved how Wiseman played tonight, he moved so comfortably and always seemed to be in the right position. He let things come to him and was dominant when the moment came.
Great showings from PBJ and Rollins as well, both have my attention.
James Wiseman = Dubzilla! How's that for a nickname.
Clever. But IMO, Wiseman isn't ready to have a nickname yet. He needs to keep showing something. The potential to be nickname-worthy is definitely there.
https://mobile.twitter.com/warriors_jp/status/1576045615292641280
Alright I know I’ve become a bit of a Patrick Baldwin height truther but there’s no way the man is 6’10 currently. I saw a clip of him standing next to Wiseman and he was almost if not the same height and Wiseman is a legit 7 feet. My guess is he’s grown an inch or two since the combine
He was 6’9.25” barefoot at combine ~6 months ago. Maybe he grew an inch or so?
Wiseman was 6’11.5 at his combine.
“Truth” ≠ “This seemed to be the case in a clip I saw!” 😊
I’d bet you a lot Baldwin is not 6’-11” or 7’-0”. BB-Ref, NBA.con, Wikipedia, etc. all list him at 6’-9”. He could have grown to closer to 6’-10”, but more than that seems highly unlikely to me.
For all intents and purposes PBJ is the same size as Looney, though to my eye he's slightly bigger. Unless you're Kevin Durant if you're 6'9'' and up you're a big. To me it seems clear that Kerr sees in PBJ a high BBIQ stretch 4-5 that he's been seeking for years. A taller and longer guy that he's got 4 years to mold into David West. Personally I think PBJ was a brilliant draft choice.
A transformation into a David West type player from PBJ would be almost miraculous. He's just not anything like West was before he came to the Warriors. He was a banger, a PF who could also jump shoot. PBJ looks like a shooter but not a banger. At present, he is soft. West was 250lbs and could rebound. By the time he came to the Warriors, he was not a banger and couldn't rebound like he could when younger. This is not to say that PBJ won't be a decent player.
The comp I came up with was Mo Speights (among recent Warriors).
Big, not fast, can shoot a 3, needs work on defense. But, there's every chance (since everyone seems to like his BBIQ) that he develops into a more well-rounded player than Speights ever did.
DW entered the league as a 23 year-old rookie. He was 25 before he broke double digits in points and surpassed 4 rbs/game. He never averaged more than 8 boards a game. West averaged 13.6/6.4 over his career. He was 4-7/3-3.5 with the Dubs.
PBJ is 19. It would not be miraculous if he put on 20 lbs in 4 years (he's already 231 and 6"10" in shoes) and he approached 6-7 boards and 10-15 points a game in 4 years. There's no question that PBJ can surpass DW's Warriors numbers while he's on his rookie contract.
PBJ is 10 lbs heavier and an inch taller than Kevon Looney. They both have a 9'2" standing reach.
Is he going to be an all-star? Who knows if he'll even be a NBA starter. But he's really young and has a lot of potential as a sweet shooting big.
We can only watch and see how he develops, at this point. Where are you getting your size information from?
Jeez he’s really 10 pounds heavier than Looney? I guess he must be born heavy while Looney is top heavy because Looney is broad as heck
He's still 19yo until November, so entirely possible he's still growing.
Maybe he just doesn't want people to think he's 6'12"...
Lol or even 6’13 ;)
Awesome. I have no other words for him. Awesome.
Think about his yearly activity. At the draft, with picks so high that seem to belong where prime numbers don't exist anymore, he always manages to bring home some excellent prospects, if not simply outright future all stars. Then, he rummages tirelessly into the FA market leftovers until he brings home enough excellent vets at minimum salary to frighten Jacques Cousteau with our bench's depth. Then a few future HoFs come knocking at his door for a well deserved big bag, and despite this starting a NBA-fueled luxury tax chain reaction that rivals the Tsar Bomba, he manages to keep them happy and motivated and smiling at japanese press and flying on Saitama hardwood.
And after all this, including resizing again and again and again the Chase trophy deck to contain new ones, he never gets a quantum of the recognition and gratitude that he deserves.
But there's me, at least.
Thank you, Bob Myers. You are awesome.
Great to see the bench bring their energy and talent to the fight. So much to be optimistic about especially Wiseman and DiVicenzo. Wiseman slammin' and jammin'. Divi dishing, shooting, and rebounding. They can slide in Poole, JFK, Moody, and J Green, and the defense should hold and the offense doesn't suffer. Nice. Very nice.
Even the guys that are on the fringes show some nice talent. Rollins ain't shy, and PBJ looks to be a natural shooter who could develop a deadly perimeter game ala Klay. Defense is another matter but I'll leave that till after the exhibition season with more looks at the players. Several will be playing in Santa Cruz as we need to retool that team. I think that Rollins and J. Robinson could actually make the roster. Both bring a lot of energy and aggressiveness. Rollins needs to work on his finishes. He can get to the basket at will but couldn't finish. His rebounding was impressive but not sure about his defense. Seems like a solid foul shooter. While Robinson looks like a vet, he could be a DLee replacement if he can shoot. He's got the hustle. PBJ looks like a soft player on D. I think he's got to shoot himself on to this team. Also looking forward see more of Trevion. He's the only other big guy who would back Looney/Wise or Dray at C. I don't think Quinones will make the team. I think this will be the final push for Q to be on the roster. He's got a chance but he needs to really step up as the competition has become greater. Let's see what happens Sunday. Maybe we'll see McClung as he should be the wild card in the race for the bench.
Baldwin has a guaranteed 15-man roster spot, whether he “shoots himself onto the team” or not. Rollins’ spot is also guaranteed.
Neither Robinson nor McClung is making the 15-man roster (and it’s unlikely either gets a two-way deal, either). The two two-way deals are currently held by Quinndary and Quiñones.
Yes, they are on the roster but not guaranteed to play. They could wind up in Santa Cruz. I guess we'll see what happens.
Decky has done a great job preparing Wise. Loving the hook shot addition
He shot hooks in his rookie season, no?
Well that's a very personal question.
Yeah, was gonna comment about his hook shot. Seems very flat and fast, like a Skyslap. Not as soft as Kareem's. Will see how it evolves with interest :)
I was loving that too. If the kid can develop a reliable hook shoot he'll be unguardable in the post.
Jason Timpf’s countdown #1 team is GSW https://youtu.be/uN1KICZt98k
Watching now “They’re the clear number one.”
Timpf has been giving the Ws their due. These kinds of rankings mean nothing in a practical sense, but it's nice to see someone knowledgeable admit what should be apparent to all: The Warriors are one of the top teams, if not the top team, in the league. I realize that recent ESPN article was base on a statistical model, but how do you let the model see the light of day when it predicts the Ws as an eighth seed (assuming health)? That alone makes it a stupid model. You'd do better picking teams out of a hat.
Yeah, for me Timpf’s discussions are a good blend of on-court strategy, roster construction, stats, talent evaluation and the “human element” element, such as how the Warriors’ continuity is a big competitive advantage, both on and off the court. He’s really well-spoken, doesn’t holler or give “hot takes” and has a delivery style that makes him seem like a genuinely nice guy.
Would be a good DNHQ pick up but I'm not sure we have the cap space
Number of shot attempts off of screens per game:
#1 Warriors 11
#2 Portland 6
Take note, ESPN, 538
Is your handle a Boards of Canada reference? Because that is my favorite song by them :)
Yes I am
Finally got around to watching the game.
I kind of like Quinones and Rollins. IMHO, Quinones moves his feet really well on defense.
Baldwin looked decent. The pharoah (DDV) was great. Wiseman, really good.
Let's just sit the starters next game and play the rooks/sophs/camp invites.
Agreed. I kept repeating in the middle of the first quarter "Curry is done for the night" "Rest Curry, there's nothing to prove here".
But when Wiseman dunked it, I was like "Moar Wiseman! Play the rest of the game!"
Random thought: what if some front office who really didn't like LeBron for some reason drafted Bronny and then decided not to sign LeBron. I think the NBA might crash and burn under the weight of the drama that would be sure to ensue!
I'm sure some team will take the bait, but I just can't imagine a functional franchise wanting this deal. LeBron could basically hold the team hostage to get them to play his son. Who needs that, this side of a team looking for a jolt at the box office?
Maybe LeBron would pay to play with his son XD.
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Just watched the game, and I'm ready to sign a one-year lease for a nice place on DDV Island. This guy knows how to play the game and will fit in beautifully with the Dubs. His playmaking, rebounding, and defensive instincts really stand out and he's also a scoring threat. Not gonna buy a place on the island since I'm guessing he'll go GP2/OPJ on us and use this year to build up his value and then get his bag.
Great signing by the Dubs!
Yup… question for Bob: who’s the target for next year? Should be somebody recovering from injury and/or traded to crap team for salary purposes or something
I'm amazed no one is talking about the most important revelation from the game. Weatherspoon has taken over the mantle of a two-way guard with a passable resemblance to Steph if you're watching on your phone or squint a bit. The squad is complete!
I thought that's why we got Chiozza last year.