Arigato, samurai Podziemski-san. Put away your wakizashi, there’s no need to do seppuku to save your honor. Emperor Lacob says: keep your katana. He who fights and withdraws, lives to fight another day (this was Demosthenes, but no matter).
What a personality this kid. A rising sun on the headband, why not?
Riffing on the “number of contracts it would take to clear max cap space” musing below, would people be cool with losing Klay, Dray, and Wiggs, along with Kuminga (to get a team to take on Dray/Wiggs), if it meant we could sign Kawhi to a max? Then maybe re-sign CP3 on a TPMLE or vet min?
Celebrini! But more importantly: “the phone call” from the Steph siren. If you had Kawhi’s game and personality (or really anyone’s game and personality) you rather play with Steph or Harden?
I'm a no on this trade. The Dubs need to be getting substantially younger so they have the energy and health needed to support Steph and maybe one more OG for another 1-3 title runs. Young Kawhi was injury-prone. Old Kawhi is not gonna be more reliable and probably is gonna be worse.
There really is a trade scenario out there potentially involving Wiggins and Kuminga (or Moody) for a Siakam or Anunoby that would be mutually beneficial for all parties involved BUT dealing with Masai Ujiri he’s gonna ask for Podz and a couple of 1st rounders in addition. In the end I do finally see one or both of Anunoby/Siakam traded b4 Feb 8th but i have a feeling Ujiri is gonna gouge the trading team with draft picks/swaps/young players with no respect to the salary coming back regardless of fit or not
People pushing Siakim and/or Anunoby have yet to answer the question, asked repeatedly by other posters, why these more expensive players solve anything? Their skill sets and weaknesses match those of the outgoing players. It just seems like some people are getting antsy, these two names have been mentioned, so some people just start posting trades (pretty much the exact same trade, actually) for those players. What's the gain? What's the evidence they will seamlessly mesh with Kerrball? What's their impact on team morale? And so forth. Without answers to these questions that show these are clear upgrades, enough of an upgrade to lead to a title, I don't see the point.
I believe they should go after one of these players, not both, if the situation is as you say. We don't need to further dig a financial hole to acquire or trade players. Draft capital and picks are alright if you are going after a franchise player. I like both of these players but not to the point of weakening the future.
Why not? If you're willing to get rid of a contract so you'll have more $$ for the FA market. Creative finance is a whole subject unto itself. Look at the Dodgers. Signed Ohtani to a 10 year $700Million contract, which $698million is deferred for 10 years. The player gets $2million per year. Can Lacob wave his magic wand?
You’re not permitted to “creatively” structure contracts in the NBA the way the Dodgers did with Ohtani.
And getting rid of one or two contracts would clear $0 for the Warriors to sign free agents next summer. They’d need to clear at least three big contracts to be able to talk the actual cap space required to sign a big name free agent. Which might not be the worst plan … if any actual difference makers were on the market next summer. But who are we talking about? PG, Kawhi, or LeBron are probably the three biggest names, but what if none of them want to sign here?
Assuming we re-signed Klay to the $25-30M number that has been rumored, we’d still be over the salary cap even without Wiggs and Dray (or close enough to the line that we might as well be over it). You need cap space to sign free agents from other teams to to anything more than the vet min ($2M-ish) or the taxpayer midlevel ($5M-ish).
To get far enough under the cap to have actual space to sign away a pricy free agent from another team, we’d basically have to lose Klay, Dray, Wiggs, CP3, and maybe even Kuminga.
Which … I might consider if we’re talking a guy like Kawhi? I mused about it at the top of this thread. Steph-Podz-Moody-Kawhi-TJD is a pretty intriguing starting 5.
Ujiri may fly too close to the sun there… I can see Siakam working here, but not OG, who wants a bigger role. But Siakam doesn’t fix the shooting issues…
Our whole roster is just too flawed, too many guys that does 1 or 2 things well but we need guys that can dribble, drive and shoot. Besides our small guards no one on this team can do those 3 things competently. Other teams have multiple guys that can do these things in their lineup at all times. If we make a trade it has to be for a wing that can do these things to relieve pressure off Steph.
Yes, yes, yes. It's called fundamentally sound players that have a complete game or close to it. Throw in BBIQ and we are that much closer to improving. This is why I like Saric so much. This automatically disqualifies Klay, Dray, and Wiggs, who don't have these 3 tools in their arsenal. Anyone can dribble unguarded. Klay can only shoot. Dray can pass and maybe rebound. Wiggs is a bench player.
Does Kuminga qualify? Podz, TJD, and Moody are in. Steph and Saric, too. CP3, GP2, can do it. Looney cannot. The Dubs have a lot of work to do between now and the beginning of next season if they want to remain competitive. We may have to suck it up for a year or so to re-tool and build in a new direction. Could be very exciting or disastrous.
Like I said below, we need a highway robbery trade that the Lakers pulled off last year with Westbrook in order for us to not be a mediocre team. Yes, I'm still upset that Lakers flipped Westbrook for DLo, Vanderbilt, AND Beasley.
Utah needed to unload. Lucky for the Lakers. But none of those players are helping very much at present. Lebron is flexing his muscle and the Lakers are getting creative now. Their bench is deep but not stable.
Meanwhile, the Clippers acuire an HOFer for peanuts and are title contenders. Are you They are deep with 4 HOFers.
We need some luck but the FO is stuck in WIN NOW. We will suffer this.
Who are we giving up of value to get someone of value that is also on an expiring contract to allow for maximum flexibility come offseason though. Therein lies the pickle. I mentioned Bruce Brown below (more of a 2 that can play the 3) and there are only a couple of other names that come to mind: Gordon Hayward and Tobias Harris. But who are we giving up? Pods? Because again, IMO, we overvalue Moody and Kuminga.
Take Harris for example. Philadelphia is in win now more so do we trade Wiggins (a 3) for Harris (a 4) straight up? But Morey has also indicated he wants max cap flexibility going into the offseason so that eliminates Wiggins. So then Chris Paul? Fills a need at 1 but what is Philly doing with a glaring hole at the 4. Kuminga not plugging that right now (better on a rebuild)
Point is that as much as i suggest an impact trade I don’t believe we have the moving pieces to get one unless wr are willing to mortgage our immediate future in terms of picks/swaps. I say we stay put and if we suck come Feb 8th then a soft rebuilr where we trade Paul, Saric, maybe one of Kuminga or Moody or even Looney and rebuild/reload in offseason
We don't necessarily need or want someone on an expiring contract. All we have to do is let CP3 go and get Klay back on a Draymond-level deal (which is reasonable) to get under the second apron. And we might not end up re-signing Klay, in which case we're well below the second apron.
Alright here we go. Another trade scenario that I think can positively impact both teams going forward and potentially free up minutes for Kuminga and Moody at the 3 (if the team sees both of them as 3’s)
Andrew Wiggins and Cory Joseph
For
Bruce Brown and Obi Toppin
Gives you solid rotation pieces at backup 2 and PF. Gives the Pacers the 2-way 3 they need to round out their club.
PG- Curry, Paul
SG- Thompson, Brown
SF- JK, Moody
PF- draymond, Toppin
C- Looney (or TJD), Saric
Podz and GP2 as added pieces up and down the lineup matchup dependent
Also frees that salary slot after this year since Brown has a team option and Obi is on the last year of rookie deal
Any trade that involves giving up Wiggs and keeping Kuminga, I just can't see as a championship roster. I'm also guessing we don't make any trades that doesn't involve getting an all star back.
I don't think an allstar is in our future. We need to develop an allstar in-house, through our existing roster or through trade for players with high ceilings. Established stars are expensive. Haven't the Warriors learned their lesson by now?
Im with you. Not that I necessarily want to see this team in its current iteration but i dont want to risk future picks if we suck post Curry nor do I think we have value pieces to trade that will bring back the type of player that can turn around a season. Im simply suggesting what I feel are reasonable trade scenarios for the fanbasr to chew on if indeed Dunleavy and Co get antsy prior to Feb 8th. This trade scenario to me would be palatable
This is more reasonable than hitting home runs. We need very stable players with consistent skills. This never hurts. Then we can deal with the high salaried anchors around our neck.
Can we sweeten it with adding the guy who has ruined two warriors seasons, got kicked out in a finals and will get more techs and or gets kicked out for more games then he plays this season ?
I will disagree, respectfully. Several pundits have suggested Andrew Wiggins as a natural fit for Indiana (only real glaring hole for them). This was one such trade proposal
I recently saw (not a pundit but an aggregate type website but nevertheless):
This also works: Wiggins for Mathurin, Nesmith, & Jalen Smith. If the Pacers back away, then I could see McConnell plugged in with 2 of my picks above. Wiggs has to be worth their bench players. I also like Nembhard.
Putting aside salaries for the moment, Obi Toppin is better than Wiggins this year, and CoJo is a barely acceptable third-string PG, not close to Brown's value.
CoJo salary only but yes im more apt to agree that Indiana would want more rather than the other way around as some posters are implying. But i still believe that Wiggins is the better player (in the right situation) playing a position of greater value which is what I would be counting on in the above trade scenario (purely hypothetical)
How? Look at their stats. Bruce Brown has an offensive rating nearly 10 points higher than Wiggins this year. A Plus 58 to Wiggins -98 and a similar defensive rating. Both shooting 30
Percent fro
3 but Bruce Brown has been slightly more
Efficient on offense. However, again, the Pacers have several
Players playing at his position. They have a need for a SF. So to say that we shouldn’t givr up any picks or swaps for a player that has better numbers across the board and is, by all intents and purposes, on an expiring contract is not necessarily a realistic expectation (although in my scenario its a Toppin/Brown for Wiggins straight up with CJ for matching salary)
If you haven’t seen this Podz highlights (so far), it’s 6 minutes that will cleanse some of the bad taste out of your mouth. Reminder: He’s less than 600 minutes into his NBA career. https://youtu.be/Hu08_I3_Flk?si=mJPubmoyK_o7lQgn
All I remember is his dunk on the guy from the Wolves but I don’t remember what year that was. His 2016 Finals wiped my memory of him in a Dubs uniform tbh
Anthony Morrow was exciting as a 3 point shooter (same year as AR)... Patrick McGraw, Jordan Bell, Harrison Barnes all champions as were JK and MM , though maybe none so really "exciting".
I go way back to Keith Wilkes, Phil Smith (same year) rookies that contributed to Championship , also Gus Williams, C Webber...
It almost seems like the champions were not necessarily so "exciting" (maybe Wilkes in his silky smooth consistent way) but they all found a way to fit in.
Hopefully he's untouchable in any trade talks. I enjoyed every minute, except when I gave myself PTSD looking at the opponent and score and remembering all the lost leads.
I can’t wait until the day we get our personnel issues figured out so we won’t have to watch the 3 midget lineup anymore. I love our midgets but it’s unfair to ask them to get stops consistently when two of them have to guard guys that’s bigger than them
Kevon Looney is questionable for tomorrow’s game against the Mavericks. General illness. Looney has a streak of 223 consecutive games played. Gary Payton II has been officially cleared for his return.
I hope not. The streak needs to end. He is getting worn down with this streak and it has long since passed the point of being helpful to the team and to his ability to contribute.
Lively’s a rookie averaging 8.9 ppg (12.7 per 36). We’re really worrying about who’s guarding him? We could put Podz or GP2 on him and likely be fine, imo.
Sure. But saying “we should worry about anyone” is kinda like saying we shouldn’t worry about anyone in particular. As long as we’re worrying about Lively’s offense, we might as well also worry about Exum, THJ, Derrick Jones Jr, Grant Williams, Jaden Hardy, Josh Green, Seth Curry, et al.
My whole point was you brought up Lively's stats, and I'm saying stats are irrelevant when it comes to us. So yes all those people you listed might actually kill us.
In answer to the specific question, if Loon can’t go, TJD and Saric — our two remaining centers — likely become the primary defenders on Lively and Powell. Which is fine, imo. We’re not talking about Jokić or Embiid.
(And the presence of Loon doesn’t change our # of players over 6’-9” in any case).
He's 7'1", averages a whopping 73.4% FG, and has 7.5 rebounds/game. I'm worried about how he'll just score a bunch of points over our players since we have no one over 6'9".
You can live with a whopping 73.4% FG if it only results in 9 points.
Fwiw, Saric is 6’-10”. But if having a super tall guy who puts up high FG% on low volume is so worrisome for opposing defenses, maybe we should sign Tacko Fall?
> You can live with a whopping 73.4% FG if it only results in 9 points.
Re: the points, its low volume against normal teams. He might take 20 shots against the undersized Dubs, and at 73.4%, he'd make 14-15. That's 28-30 points, not counting And-1s. So, SOL is right to be concerned--as the Dubs should be as well.
A season of too many uncertainties can lead to instability/failure to meet expectations
Uncertainties about the starting lineup-esp. cp3?, JK?, Looney?,, who
Uncertainties about most lineups
Uncertainties about player performance-esp. Wiggs, Klay
Uncertainties about player availability-illness,injury, suspensions, resting
Uncertainties about a player’s mental stability- Draymond
Uncertainties about plays- collisions, missed assignments,
Uncertainties about players’ roles-esp. JK, Wiggs to bench
Uncertainties about minutes
Uncertainties about playing at all.-esp. Moody, JK, TJD
Uncertainties about staying with the team
While most of these are hallmarks of the warriors’ system, one major difference was the starting lineup last year. It was stable (with a few adjustments for illness and injury), it was mostly reliable, it’s personnel was a given, and the players were experienced playing together and excelled as a group. So many things seem ‘up in the air’ this year. As an ecologist I look at the internal ‘environment ‘ of performance, and this is what I see.
Podz, TJD, Kuminga, and Moody are the young core of this Warriors team that Kerr and coaching staff need to keep developing and playing meaningful minutes, and surround Steph with, and help him when he is double teamed.
Some interesting comments:
Marcus Thompson II@ThompsonScribe
“Part of the reason I believe the Warriors should NOT be so at peace with defenses doubling Curry and taking him out of the action is because THESE players need to learn how to get him open against that type of defenses”
Joe Viray@JoeVirayNBA
“One effect of Steph starting games out so passive is that when they need him to be aggressive, he goes hunting for shots that are objectively not good looks.
I’d rather get him going with sets instead of him having to hunt for looks.”
Arcana@NBAComedy2
“Kerr has no interest in getting curry shots , they don’t even look for him , he’s the best shooter ever and they don’t run plays for him or anything he’s the last option not the first”
Nathan R.@MisterNSA97
“curry off ball without draymond, is tough. curry with the ball, is automatic full court pressure followed by double team. Kerr needs to figure it out.”
I guess I wasn’t the only one wondering why Steph has been a non-factor during the first quarter or sometimes first half.
But isn't part of the problem that the defense sags off Loon and potentially Draymond (this is why his early game threes have been so important) to hound Steph? Seems to me that in the near term, having TJD play a lot with Steph instead of Loon would ensure that your big needs to be covered, thus giving Steph more space.
> Seems to me that in the near term, having TJD play a lot with Steph instead of Loon would ensure that your big needs to be covered, thus giving Steph more space.
And I think this is the evolution Kerr does not take to heart. The league has changed since 2016. It is no longer workable to have centers who cannot shoot. Look at the last three champions. Bucks with Giannis, Dubs with Bjelly/OJP, and Nuggets with Jokic. The Dubs probably would not get by with Bjelly/OPJ this year. The Dubs act like heavy guard play means you can have a non-threat to score at center, but the trend is the opposite because a scoring threats all over the floor pressure the defense and reduce the effectiveness of double teams.
Throw in that the OGs are slowing down, and its a recipe for mediocrity at best. The fix is to 1)realize this and change your lineup to make it closer to the trend on the front line and 2)stretch OG effectiveness by playing the young guns, thus reducing OG minutes to keep the OGs fresh for the playoffs. (May be too late to do that for Steph given how hard he worked in games 1-30).
Dallas is listing Luka Dončić (left quad) as questionable for Saturday at Golden State after Dončić missed Thursday's loss at Minnesota. Kyrie Irving is listed as doubtful after missing the past 11 games with a right heel contusion.
No, I get that part. But imho the “trap game” concept is largely a myth — more like a superstitious “knock on wood” and/or excuse to post a funny Admiral Ackbar pic than anything real.
And I think “Ewing theory” tends to apply better to slightly overrated 20+ ppg guys like Ewing (say, ‘Melo, Monta, or even Klay?) than to legitimately elite talents like Luka.
> But imho the “trap game” concept is largely a myth
The term may be overused and used incorrectly at times, but players and coaches themselves note that sometimes they look past opponent 1 because they are so focused on /concerned about/excited to play opponent 2. That is the definition of a trap game. And, humans being human, it is not a myth, it really happens.
And Dray back a week later or so… I’ve heard 11-13 games quoted, and 11 games would be back on 1/5 against Detroit, 13 would be back on 1/10 against NOP.
As sleepy said he's averaging about 25 and to answer your question, I hope Dray takes about 10 of them from CP0 and get's him down around 20 where he belongs.
I just do not understand those of you who immediately run to post "tear it down, trade Steph" after a loss. First, the Heat were 16-17 last year, the Celtics were 16-19 and 23-24 the year before. Both made the Finals.
Do I think the Warriors are going to make the Finals? Probably not. Only 2/30 teams make it! Only 1/30 wins! Championship or bust is an unhealthy attitude and approach to fandom.
Does that mean they should tear it down and trade the best and most beloved player in franchise history? Absolutely not, and I do not for the life of me understand this mentality. You want to be the Pistons? Tearing things down is not a magic formula to a title. When is the last time it actually worked?
As some others have said, I’m looking for fun, exciting, joyful basketball. Last night was not that but some games with the young’uns gave been. To calibrate, I enjoyed watching Don Nelson’s D-league all-stars lose nearly every game than the last year (and maybe two) with Durant where the regular season didn’t matter and the dubs only had to play hard one quarter to win two-thirds of their games.
I posted something that sounds like this in the previous thread, so I'll respond.
First of all, I qualified it by writing that this scenario would only be reasonable *if* we don't make it out of the play-in portion of the standings after having Dray and GP2 back for 4 weeks. At that point, the trade deadline is very near, and the Warriors will likely have to make a move. I don't think you go into second half with a historically high payroll, huge tax bill, and virtually no shot at the playoffs. That means there are 4 options:
1. Trade away young assets (JK, Moody, Podz, future picks) for a vet that moderately increases the chances to make the playoffs, but leaves the team well short of a championship contender.
2. Dump payroll without improving the team, since you won't get a good return and make the team worse in the near term. Candidates are Wiggs, CP3, maybe Dray and Klay (much less likely). Very few scenarios here in which we don't have to take equivalent salary and back-of-rotation players back.
3. Don't make a trade, re-sign Klay to a deal that gets them under the second apron and run it back as-is next year, likely without CP3 and Saric .
4. Blow it up and give Steph a chance at another ring somewhere of his choosing.
Of those 4 options, none are palatable, but at least option 4 will make the next few years interesting. For options 1 through 3, there is no realistic scenario to sign any FA of note in the next couple of years, and we don't have a pick this year, so highly unlikely that next year's team will be much better and will likely be worse, maybe a lot worse if trends continue.
Option 5: Make marginal changes that reflect an appreciation of what age means in the NBA. So, DON'T offer Klay a max deal. Get under the second apron by offering him about 15mill and a spot on the bench. Explore re-signing CP3 at a comparable pay cut, if he likes the environment and thinks a title could be had. Let Saric go and further develop TJD--I like Saric, but TJD has earned the minutes. Re-sign Moody and JK, trade Wigs for future draft picks OR send him to the bench. Further develop Podz. And so on tinkering around the edges. In my view, this team, with accountability and a concerted effort to not overwork Steph, IS a title contender. But the coach has to rise to the occasion and coach to win, not coach to massage older player egos.
In your scenario, we can afford to sign Saric. In fact, we need him. Size, 3 ball, passing, and some paint work.
Offering Klay and CP3 pay cuts will immediately reveal who Klay and CP3 are as team players and not paycheck hunters. They both have value but not the current one.
Kuminga is still a borderline trade asset to me. He can't seem to solidify his spot on the team.
That's basically my option 3 with more positive framing, but I see no reason to believe that improvement from the young ones will more than compensate for further decline of the OGs to the extent needed to even come out of the first round in the West.
OKC, Kings, Dallas, Denver, Minnesota, even the Rockets will likely improve even more next year, and they are already above us in the standings this year. Memphis with Ja and JJJ will be in the mix as well.
Even if the Lakers, Suns, and Clippers all decline more than us, the dubs as currently constructed are a bottom-half team in the West.
Based on your other comments, you appear to think that the main problem with the current team is coaching, while I think the problem is lack of top-end young talent. You may be right, but only time will tell.
Next year is going to come quick, and Moody and Kuminga will either be extended or choose to enter free agency. I have a hard time believing that they will agree to low-ball offers based on not getting the playing time they believe they deserve and could get to improve their value on other teams. So they either have to get paid decently with enough playing time beforehand to allow them to justify staying, or the FO should be seriously looking at trading one or both with other pieces.
So if Klay, Wiggins and Draymond stay, where does the playing time come from? When will Klay and Draymond start taking a reduced salary and minutes to help transition to a younger team? I think the FO needs to see how Klay plays between now and the trade deadline, and how Draymond acts before addressing any of this.
Klay is heading to a very reduced role wherever he goes… unless he climbs fully out of this malaise… he’s been ok offensively, not great, but ok… but I feel like he’s really regressed defensively. He needs to lean hard into Kerr’s stated intention that Klay should be playing the 4…
That depends on the team he goes to. If he goes to a team with quality defensive wings who can penetrate on offense and that has a rim protector, so they mostly need him to space the floor, he could still play a solid rotation role or even start. (That assumes he can find his shot consistently, which he always has before — eventually.) He would not play as many minutes as he used to but it would not have to be a dramatically reduced role.
I think JK and Moses are both under contract for next season, and then enter RFA at the end of the '24-'25 season, which means that the Dubs can match offers. Still, your concerns regarding playing time and satisfaction are valid regardless.
If they chose #4, trade Steph, and blow it up, it's "interesting" only if you find it interesting to totally suck for several years, with no assurance that you'll turn it around anytime soon. I can't see Lacob doing that. It also would empty the seats at Chase. There's no way they trade Steph unless he asks for it.
>> There's no way they trade Steph unless he asks for it.
Totally agree. Also, Steph would not do this in public, so we wouldn't know. The question is, how successful have Dray and Klay been lately in convincing Steph to keep the old core together? How important is it for him to go into the sunset together vs winning another ring? We'll find out.
Agreed. Also: Is there still a path to a ring with the Steph/Dray/Klay core, with or without Loon, assuming Dunleavy were willing and able to deal JK, Wiggs, and/or others?
I think you're asking it backwards. The question should be, what is the path to a ring with Steph and the young guns? (that is, what minutes distributions/strategies would make the most sense (and don't say zero minutes for youth :-) ))
Apparently, team could be open to trading Wiggs. Not sure if it’s the best idea to choose Kuminga over Wiggs. Wiggins at his best is still way better than Kuminga imo. Ofc Kuminga is young, but core 3 isn’t.
Only 2 of the core 3 are consistently playing like they are top 3 on a title team. And the most important one of those has the motor and performance to suggest they deserve moves that will work more than one year, not one year flailing that's almost certain to fail. Thus, it'd be silly to try to maximize this year by trading your best tradable player given:
1)The stats (only 2 titles in 40 years were won after a trade of a rotation player)
2)The system (it is well-known that Kerr-ball is not something you can pick up mid-year)
3)The success level (JK has outplayed Wigs by far so picking Wigs over JK opens lotsa holes)
4)& The space of cap (CP3 & Klay come off the books in July; any needle-mover ruins that)
Unless it's a highway robbery trade that the Lakers pulled off with Westbrook last year, I don't think there's gonna be a lot of options that will spark the team.
I would prefer slightly keeping Kuminga over Wiggs but I think for trade value JK must be considerably higher. So my guess is if GSW wants a needle-mover, I think JK would have to go.
That could work for a young/rebuilding team that would keep JK for the future, let CP3 walk next season to gain cap space, and would send us a quality veteran who doesn't match their timeline.
But, then you have to replace your backup PG. And Steph may need his minutes reduced. I don't know that either Cojo or Podz are up to it, so you need to bring back a PG, too.
Thought exercise time:
Assuming CP3, Šarić and GP2 are bench players and not in the mix, pick your primary lineup from these two choices:
Steph and the YGs (Podz, Moody, Kuminga, Jackson-Davis)
Steph and the OGs (Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, Looney)
OGs
Steph and the Young Guns.
Wow.
Arigato, samurai Podziemski-san. Put away your wakizashi, there’s no need to do seppuku to save your honor. Emperor Lacob says: keep your katana. He who fights and withdraws, lives to fight another day (this was Demosthenes, but no matter).
What a personality this kid. A rising sun on the headband, why not?
Riffing on the “number of contracts it would take to clear max cap space” musing below, would people be cool with losing Klay, Dray, and Wiggs, along with Kuminga (to get a team to take on Dray/Wiggs), if it meant we could sign Kawhi to a max? Then maybe re-sign CP3 on a TPMLE or vet min?
2024-25 starting lineup: Steph, Podz, Moody, Kawhi, TJD
Bench: CP3, GP2, Saric, Looney, Santos + a 3&D guy or two
Kawhi’s health would make me hella nervous, but I think I’d do it. Get ‘er done, MDJ and Celebrini?
Only one question: why would Kawhi come to this non-playoff roster when he can just stay in the city he and/or his family always wanted him to be?
Celebrini! But more importantly: “the phone call” from the Steph siren. If you had Kawhi’s game and personality (or really anyone’s game and personality) you rather play with Steph or Harden?
I'm not sure. Kawhi seems to LOVE Harden. On the court at least. Only time I've seen him break character to celebrate.
I'm a no on this trade. The Dubs need to be getting substantially younger so they have the energy and health needed to support Steph and maybe one more OG for another 1-3 title runs. Young Kawhi was injury-prone. Old Kawhi is not gonna be more reliable and probably is gonna be worse.
There really is a trade scenario out there potentially involving Wiggins and Kuminga (or Moody) for a Siakam or Anunoby that would be mutually beneficial for all parties involved BUT dealing with Masai Ujiri he’s gonna ask for Podz and a couple of 1st rounders in addition. In the end I do finally see one or both of Anunoby/Siakam traded b4 Feb 8th but i have a feeling Ujiri is gonna gouge the trading team with draft picks/swaps/young players with no respect to the salary coming back regardless of fit or not
People pushing Siakim and/or Anunoby have yet to answer the question, asked repeatedly by other posters, why these more expensive players solve anything? Their skill sets and weaknesses match those of the outgoing players. It just seems like some people are getting antsy, these two names have been mentioned, so some people just start posting trades (pretty much the exact same trade, actually) for those players. What's the gain? What's the evidence they will seamlessly mesh with Kerrball? What's their impact on team morale? And so forth. Without answers to these questions that show these are clear upgrades, enough of an upgrade to lead to a title, I don't see the point.
I believe they should go after one of these players, not both, if the situation is as you say. We don't need to further dig a financial hole to acquire or trade players. Draft capital and picks are alright if you are going after a franchise player. I like both of these players but not to the point of weakening the future.
Is it clear that Siakam would fit into/quickly learn the Warriors’ system?
Would we even trade for a player who's about to become a UFA?
Why not? If you're willing to get rid of a contract so you'll have more $$ for the FA market. Creative finance is a whole subject unto itself. Look at the Dodgers. Signed Ohtani to a 10 year $700Million contract, which $698million is deferred for 10 years. The player gets $2million per year. Can Lacob wave his magic wand?
You’re not permitted to “creatively” structure contracts in the NBA the way the Dodgers did with Ohtani.
And getting rid of one or two contracts would clear $0 for the Warriors to sign free agents next summer. They’d need to clear at least three big contracts to be able to talk the actual cap space required to sign a big name free agent. Which might not be the worst plan … if any actual difference makers were on the market next summer. But who are we talking about? PG, Kawhi, or LeBron are probably the three biggest names, but what if none of them want to sign here?
Please explain how clearing let's say Dray & Wiggs would give us $0 to sign FAs. I'm not the sharpest tool when it comes to this area.
Assuming we re-signed Klay to the $25-30M number that has been rumored, we’d still be over the salary cap even without Wiggs and Dray (or close enough to the line that we might as well be over it). You need cap space to sign free agents from other teams to to anything more than the vet min ($2M-ish) or the taxpayer midlevel ($5M-ish).
To get far enough under the cap to have actual space to sign away a pricy free agent from another team, we’d basically have to lose Klay, Dray, Wiggs, CP3, and maybe even Kuminga.
Which … I might consider if we’re talking a guy like Kawhi? I mused about it at the top of this thread. Steph-Podz-Moody-Kawhi-TJD is a pretty intriguing starting 5.
And is very expensive and won't space the floor.
Ujiri may fly too close to the sun there… I can see Siakam working here, but not OG, who wants a bigger role. But Siakam doesn’t fix the shooting issues…
Wouldn’t OG be #2 on the Warriors behind only Steph?
Our whole roster is just too flawed, too many guys that does 1 or 2 things well but we need guys that can dribble, drive and shoot. Besides our small guards no one on this team can do those 3 things competently. Other teams have multiple guys that can do these things in their lineup at all times. If we make a trade it has to be for a wing that can do these things to relieve pressure off Steph.
Yes, yes, yes. It's called fundamentally sound players that have a complete game or close to it. Throw in BBIQ and we are that much closer to improving. This is why I like Saric so much. This automatically disqualifies Klay, Dray, and Wiggs, who don't have these 3 tools in their arsenal. Anyone can dribble unguarded. Klay can only shoot. Dray can pass and maybe rebound. Wiggs is a bench player.
Does Kuminga qualify? Podz, TJD, and Moody are in. Steph and Saric, too. CP3, GP2, can do it. Looney cannot. The Dubs have a lot of work to do between now and the beginning of next season if they want to remain competitive. We may have to suck it up for a year or so to re-tool and build in a new direction. Could be very exciting or disastrous.
Like I said below, we need a highway robbery trade that the Lakers pulled off last year with Westbrook in order for us to not be a mediocre team. Yes, I'm still upset that Lakers flipped Westbrook for DLo, Vanderbilt, AND Beasley.
Utah needed to unload. Lucky for the Lakers. But none of those players are helping very much at present. Lebron is flexing his muscle and the Lakers are getting creative now. Their bench is deep but not stable.
Meanwhile, the Clippers acuire an HOFer for peanuts and are title contenders. Are you They are deep with 4 HOFers.
We need some luck but the FO is stuck in WIN NOW. We will suffer this.
Who are we giving up of value to get someone of value that is also on an expiring contract to allow for maximum flexibility come offseason though. Therein lies the pickle. I mentioned Bruce Brown below (more of a 2 that can play the 3) and there are only a couple of other names that come to mind: Gordon Hayward and Tobias Harris. But who are we giving up? Pods? Because again, IMO, we overvalue Moody and Kuminga.
Take Harris for example. Philadelphia is in win now more so do we trade Wiggins (a 3) for Harris (a 4) straight up? But Morey has also indicated he wants max cap flexibility going into the offseason so that eliminates Wiggins. So then Chris Paul? Fills a need at 1 but what is Philly doing with a glaring hole at the 4. Kuminga not plugging that right now (better on a rebuild)
Point is that as much as i suggest an impact trade I don’t believe we have the moving pieces to get one unless wr are willing to mortgage our immediate future in terms of picks/swaps. I say we stay put and if we suck come Feb 8th then a soft rebuilr where we trade Paul, Saric, maybe one of Kuminga or Moody or even Looney and rebuild/reload in offseason
Say not the name of Saric.
Who we give up is for Mdj to figure out, we as fans likely overvalue or even undervalue our own players.
Guys that I think would improve us decently but would take a high price- Siakim, Lauri, OG, Grant
Guys thar would help a bit but probably not too much improvement but would come cheaper, also on expirings- Hayward, Bogdanovic, not expiring-Kuzma.
Hayward and Bogey can be prolific scorers. Kuzma I would think would be rejected by Kerr. He needs a new hair stylist.
We don't necessarily need or want someone on an expiring contract. All we have to do is let CP3 go and get Klay back on a Draymond-level deal (which is reasonable) to get under the second apron. And we might not end up re-signing Klay, in which case we're well below the second apron.
Alright here we go. Another trade scenario that I think can positively impact both teams going forward and potentially free up minutes for Kuminga and Moody at the 3 (if the team sees both of them as 3’s)
Andrew Wiggins and Cory Joseph
For
Bruce Brown and Obi Toppin
Gives you solid rotation pieces at backup 2 and PF. Gives the Pacers the 2-way 3 they need to round out their club.
PG- Curry, Paul
SG- Thompson, Brown
SF- JK, Moody
PF- draymond, Toppin
C- Looney (or TJD), Saric
Podz and GP2 as added pieces up and down the lineup matchup dependent
Also frees that salary slot after this year since Brown has a team option and Obi is on the last year of rookie deal
Any trade that involves giving up Wiggs and keeping Kuminga, I just can't see as a championship roster. I'm also guessing we don't make any trades that doesn't involve getting an all star back.
I don't think an allstar is in our future. We need to develop an allstar in-house, through our existing roster or through trade for players with high ceilings. Established stars are expensive. Haven't the Warriors learned their lesson by now?
Why make a trade now?
And isn't Wiggins' contract team friendly for a few more years?
I would rather watch the team that I've seen this year to see what they can do.
But then I am a long term Warriors fan.
Im with you. Not that I necessarily want to see this team in its current iteration but i dont want to risk future picks if we suck post Curry nor do I think we have value pieces to trade that will bring back the type of player that can turn around a season. Im simply suggesting what I feel are reasonable trade scenarios for the fanbasr to chew on if indeed Dunleavy and Co get antsy prior to Feb 8th. This trade scenario to me would be palatable
This is more reasonable than hitting home runs. We need very stable players with consistent skills. This never hurts. Then we can deal with the high salaried anchors around our neck.
Can we sweeten it with adding the guy who has ruined two warriors seasons, got kicked out in a finals and will get more techs and or gets kicked out for more games then he plays this season ?
I haven't checked the salaries but I wouldn't do that if I were Indy's GM.
I will disagree, respectfully. Several pundits have suggested Andrew Wiggins as a natural fit for Indiana (only real glaring hole for them). This was one such trade proposal
I recently saw (not a pundit but an aggregate type website but nevertheless):
https://nbaanalysis.net/2023/12/20/nba-trade-rumors-indiana-pacers-golden-state-warriors-andrew-wiggins-bold-proposal/
In the scenario above we get mcconnell and Buddy Hield though. I wouldn’t do that (another PG and undersized 2) with now a glaring hole at the 3/4).
However my contention has been that Wiggins is on a reasonable contract playing a position of need so he has more value to many teams
Than what often shows up
On the court lately. Likewise, Kuminga and Moody may have more value to us than to someone else.
I think Wiggs fits well but I don't want Hield.
This also works: Wiggins for Mathurin, Nesmith, & Jalen Smith. If the Pacers back away, then I could see McConnell plugged in with 2 of my picks above. Wiggs has to be worth their bench players. I also like Nembhard.
Putting aside salaries for the moment, Obi Toppin is better than Wiggins this year, and CoJo is a barely acceptable third-string PG, not close to Brown's value.
CoJo salary only but yes im more apt to agree that Indiana would want more rather than the other way around as some posters are implying. But i still believe that Wiggins is the better player (in the right situation) playing a position of greater value which is what I would be counting on in the above trade scenario (purely hypothetical)
What if it includes alllll the picks and swaps?
You don’t trade picks and swaps for Bruce Brown and Obi
I mean, I agree… was just pointing out that it’s doable…
How? Look at their stats. Bruce Brown has an offensive rating nearly 10 points higher than Wiggins this year. A Plus 58 to Wiggins -98 and a similar defensive rating. Both shooting 30
Percent fro
3 but Bruce Brown has been slightly more
Efficient on offense. However, again, the Pacers have several
Players playing at his position. They have a need for a SF. So to say that we shouldn’t givr up any picks or swaps for a player that has better numbers across the board and is, by all intents and purposes, on an expiring contract is not necessarily a realistic expectation (although in my scenario its a Toppin/Brown for Wiggins straight up with CJ for matching salary)
Yup. This trade fails the "the other team has to want it too" condition of a a valid trade suggestion.
If you haven’t seen this Podz highlights (so far), it’s 6 minutes that will cleanse some of the bad taste out of your mouth. Reminder: He’s less than 600 minutes into his NBA career. https://youtu.be/Hu08_I3_Flk?si=mJPubmoyK_o7lQgn
Anthony Randolph and Steph are the only other names that comes to mind as far as exciting rookies goes in recent memory
We gonna act like HB didn't have some wild dunks as a rookie? Also was our 3rd leading scorer in the playoffs (above Klay)
All I remember is his dunk on the guy from the Wolves but I don’t remember what year that was. His 2016 Finals wiped my memory of him in a Dubs uniform tbh
Come on man. His rookie year was pretty good
This is the dunk you're thinking of btw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm4UQPTORfE
Not Eric Paschall?
Anthony Morrow was exciting as a 3 point shooter (same year as AR)... Patrick McGraw, Jordan Bell, Harrison Barnes all champions as were JK and MM , though maybe none so really "exciting".
I go way back to Keith Wilkes, Phil Smith (same year) rookies that contributed to Championship , also Gus Williams, C Webber...
It almost seems like the champions were not necessarily so "exciting" (maybe Wilkes in his silky smooth consistent way) but they all found a way to fit in.
Podz can still be a champion and "exciting" at the same time
I'm hoping to see it... as well as TJD, and maybe even Gui would qualify ? ... if the team can win it all !
Oh yeah, him too. For me personally though it was more of just "I'm enjoying this because we suck but I don't know if I'm all in on you"
Hopefully he's untouchable in any trade talks. I enjoyed every minute, except when I gave myself PTSD looking at the opponent and score and remembering all the lost leads.
I can’t wait until the day we get our personnel issues figured out so we won’t have to watch the 3 midget lineup anymore. I love our midgets but it’s unfair to ask them to get stops consistently when two of them have to guard guys that’s bigger than them
Kevon Looney is questionable for tomorrow’s game against the Mavericks. General illness. Looney has a streak of 223 consecutive games played. Gary Payton II has been officially cleared for his return.
https://twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/1740864449949687854
I hope he can suit up and play three minutes, just to maintain his streak.
If the man is sick, let him rest. All streaks end. He can start a new one.
I hope not. The streak needs to end. He is getting worn down with this streak and it has long since passed the point of being helpful to the team and to his ability to contribute.
Who's going to be guarding Lively II tomorrow if Looney can't go? TJD?
Lively’s a rookie averaging 8.9 ppg (12.7 per 36). We’re really worrying about who’s guarding him? We could put Podz or GP2 on him and likely be fine, imo.
We couldn't stop Jamal Cain, so we should worry about anyone at this point.
Sure. But saying “we should worry about anyone” is kinda like saying we shouldn’t worry about anyone in particular. As long as we’re worrying about Lively’s offense, we might as well also worry about Exum, THJ, Derrick Jones Jr, Grant Williams, Jaden Hardy, Josh Green, Seth Curry, et al.
My whole point was you brought up Lively's stats, and I'm saying stats are irrelevant when it comes to us. So yes all those people you listed might actually kill us.
…
In answer to the specific question, if Loon can’t go, TJD and Saric — our two remaining centers — likely become the primary defenders on Lively and Powell. Which is fine, imo. We’re not talking about Jokić or Embiid.
(And the presence of Loon doesn’t change our # of players over 6’-9” in any case).
He's 7'1", averages a whopping 73.4% FG, and has 7.5 rebounds/game. I'm worried about how he'll just score a bunch of points over our players since we have no one over 6'9".
You can live with a whopping 73.4% FG if it only results in 9 points.
Fwiw, Saric is 6’-10”. But if having a super tall guy who puts up high FG% on low volume is so worrisome for opposing defenses, maybe we should sign Tacko Fall?
> You can live with a whopping 73.4% FG if it only results in 9 points.
Re: the points, its low volume against normal teams. He might take 20 shots against the undersized Dubs, and at 73.4%, he'd make 14-15. That's 28-30 points, not counting And-1s. So, SOL is right to be concerned--as the Dubs should be as well.
Hey suit up Zaza. He's 6'11", he knows the system, and he's only a year older than LeBron. What could go wrong?
A season of too many uncertainties can lead to instability/failure to meet expectations
Uncertainties about the starting lineup-esp. cp3?, JK?, Looney?,, who
Uncertainties about most lineups
Uncertainties about player performance-esp. Wiggs, Klay
Uncertainties about player availability-illness,injury, suspensions, resting
Uncertainties about a player’s mental stability- Draymond
Uncertainties about plays- collisions, missed assignments,
Uncertainties about players’ roles-esp. JK, Wiggs to bench
Uncertainties about minutes
Uncertainties about playing at all.-esp. Moody, JK, TJD
Uncertainties about staying with the team
While most of these are hallmarks of the warriors’ system, one major difference was the starting lineup last year. It was stable (with a few adjustments for illness and injury), it was mostly reliable, it’s personnel was a given, and the players were experienced playing together and excelled as a group. So many things seem ‘up in the air’ this year. As an ecologist I look at the internal ‘environment ‘ of performance, and this is what I see.
Podz, TJD, Kuminga, and Moody are the young core of this Warriors team that Kerr and coaching staff need to keep developing and playing meaningful minutes, and surround Steph with, and help him when he is double teamed.
Some interesting comments:
Marcus Thompson II@ThompsonScribe
“Part of the reason I believe the Warriors should NOT be so at peace with defenses doubling Curry and taking him out of the action is because THESE players need to learn how to get him open against that type of defenses”
Joe Viray@JoeVirayNBA
“One effect of Steph starting games out so passive is that when they need him to be aggressive, he goes hunting for shots that are objectively not good looks.
I’d rather get him going with sets instead of him having to hunt for looks.”
Arcana@NBAComedy2
“Kerr has no interest in getting curry shots , they don’t even look for him , he’s the best shooter ever and they don’t run plays for him or anything he’s the last option not the first”
Nathan R.@MisterNSA97
“curry off ball without draymond, is tough. curry with the ball, is automatic full court pressure followed by double team. Kerr needs to figure it out.”
I guess I wasn’t the only one wondering why Steph has been a non-factor during the first quarter or sometimes first half.
Was also thinking Steph plays a bunch of his start-of-half minutes with Loon. Feels to me like teams can just ignore him and muck up Steph’s spacing.
Agreed with Steph starting off passive ends up with him hunting shots. He ends up taking early bad 3s that are covered and out of rhythm.
Maybe Podz/Dray/Loon to be a screening/passing machine to get Steph/Klay looks?
But isn't part of the problem that the defense sags off Loon and potentially Draymond (this is why his early game threes have been so important) to hound Steph? Seems to me that in the near term, having TJD play a lot with Steph instead of Loon would ensure that your big needs to be covered, thus giving Steph more space.
> Seems to me that in the near term, having TJD play a lot with Steph instead of Loon would ensure that your big needs to be covered, thus giving Steph more space.
And I think this is the evolution Kerr does not take to heart. The league has changed since 2016. It is no longer workable to have centers who cannot shoot. Look at the last three champions. Bucks with Giannis, Dubs with Bjelly/OJP, and Nuggets with Jokic. The Dubs probably would not get by with Bjelly/OPJ this year. The Dubs act like heavy guard play means you can have a non-threat to score at center, but the trend is the opposite because a scoring threats all over the floor pressure the defense and reduce the effectiveness of double teams.
Throw in that the OGs are slowing down, and its a recipe for mediocrity at best. The fix is to 1)realize this and change your lineup to make it closer to the trend on the front line and 2)stretch OG effectiveness by playing the young guns, thus reducing OG minutes to keep the OGs fresh for the playoffs. (May be too late to do that for Steph given how hard he worked in games 1-30).
Dallas is listing Luka Dončić (left quad) as questionable for Saturday at Golden State after Dončić missed Thursday's loss at Minnesota. Kyrie Irving is listed as doubtful after missing the past 11 games with a right heel contusion.
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1740878420291305508
Hmm, possibly bad news for our Dubs who always seem to play to the other team’s level
Every team is comfortable playing the dubs without a few of their starters - or at least that’s what the trend seems like 😩
We could rest Steph to even things up. (I'm joking. Sort of.)
I won’t front: I’m a “wins wh*re” who will always take no Luka over Luka.
You misunderstand… Warriors will play like a D3 team and let Exum get a layup line.
No, I get that part. But imho the “trap game” concept is largely a myth — more like a superstitious “knock on wood” and/or excuse to post a funny Admiral Ackbar pic than anything real.
And I think “Ewing theory” tends to apply better to slightly overrated 20+ ppg guys like Ewing (say, ‘Melo, Monta, or even Klay?) than to legitimately elite talents like Luka.
> But imho the “trap game” concept is largely a myth
The term may be overused and used incorrectly at times, but players and coaches themselves note that sometimes they look past opponent 1 because they are so focused on /concerned about/excited to play opponent 2. That is the definition of a trap game. And, humans being human, it is not a myth, it really happens.
It’s not as much of a “trap game” as it is a “trash game”, lol
It doesn’t seem to matter if half of the opponent’s team is missing because our team doesn’t take advantage of it. We also go MIA.
GPII expected back tomorrow. All of you that had him in the office pool for "GPII or Draymond will be back first" get a lollipop.
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/gary-payton-ii-return-mavericks/1685905/
Wow, that's awesome.
And a well-timed emotional lift for the team.
GPII, sure! Dray? I doubt it.
Seriously thank heavens
And Dray back a week later or so… I’ve heard 11-13 games quoted, and 11 games would be back on 1/5 against Detroit, 13 would be back on 1/10 against NOP.
I am told the rumor is false that Draymond will be required to wear elbow pads.
Shock collar makes more sense.
What's the over/under on how many games before Dray punches another player?
And his 36 min the rooks were getting, what do they do?
As sleepy said he's averaging about 25 and to answer your question, I hope Dray takes about 10 of them from CP0 and get's him down around 20 where he belongs.
He was averaging 25.1 mpg.
What is the meaning of Steph Curry’s shot coming from the tunnel?
The oak tree at the top of the hill.
(Someone requested a koan)
I just do not understand those of you who immediately run to post "tear it down, trade Steph" after a loss. First, the Heat were 16-17 last year, the Celtics were 16-19 and 23-24 the year before. Both made the Finals.
Do I think the Warriors are going to make the Finals? Probably not. Only 2/30 teams make it! Only 1/30 wins! Championship or bust is an unhealthy attitude and approach to fandom.
Does that mean they should tear it down and trade the best and most beloved player in franchise history? Absolutely not, and I do not for the life of me understand this mentality. You want to be the Pistons? Tearing things down is not a magic formula to a title. When is the last time it actually worked?
As some others have said, I’m looking for fun, exciting, joyful basketball. Last night was not that but some games with the young’uns gave been. To calibrate, I enjoyed watching Don Nelson’s D-league all-stars lose nearly every game than the last year (and maybe two) with Durant where the regular season didn’t matter and the dubs only had to play hard one quarter to win two-thirds of their games.
I posted something that sounds like this in the previous thread, so I'll respond.
First of all, I qualified it by writing that this scenario would only be reasonable *if* we don't make it out of the play-in portion of the standings after having Dray and GP2 back for 4 weeks. At that point, the trade deadline is very near, and the Warriors will likely have to make a move. I don't think you go into second half with a historically high payroll, huge tax bill, and virtually no shot at the playoffs. That means there are 4 options:
1. Trade away young assets (JK, Moody, Podz, future picks) for a vet that moderately increases the chances to make the playoffs, but leaves the team well short of a championship contender.
2. Dump payroll without improving the team, since you won't get a good return and make the team worse in the near term. Candidates are Wiggs, CP3, maybe Dray and Klay (much less likely). Very few scenarios here in which we don't have to take equivalent salary and back-of-rotation players back.
3. Don't make a trade, re-sign Klay to a deal that gets them under the second apron and run it back as-is next year, likely without CP3 and Saric .
4. Blow it up and give Steph a chance at another ring somewhere of his choosing.
Of those 4 options, none are palatable, but at least option 4 will make the next few years interesting. For options 1 through 3, there is no realistic scenario to sign any FA of note in the next couple of years, and we don't have a pick this year, so highly unlikely that next year's team will be much better and will likely be worse, maybe a lot worse if trends continue.
Option 5: Make marginal changes that reflect an appreciation of what age means in the NBA. So, DON'T offer Klay a max deal. Get under the second apron by offering him about 15mill and a spot on the bench. Explore re-signing CP3 at a comparable pay cut, if he likes the environment and thinks a title could be had. Let Saric go and further develop TJD--I like Saric, but TJD has earned the minutes. Re-sign Moody and JK, trade Wigs for future draft picks OR send him to the bench. Further develop Podz. And so on tinkering around the edges. In my view, this team, with accountability and a concerted effort to not overwork Steph, IS a title contender. But the coach has to rise to the occasion and coach to win, not coach to massage older player egos.
In your scenario, we can afford to sign Saric. In fact, we need him. Size, 3 ball, passing, and some paint work.
Offering Klay and CP3 pay cuts will immediately reveal who Klay and CP3 are as team players and not paycheck hunters. They both have value but not the current one.
Kuminga is still a borderline trade asset to me. He can't seem to solidify his spot on the team.
Surely, Dray must go, somehow, someway.
In that scenario, they’re still limited to offering Saric the TPMLE (about $5M) which probably isn’t enough to keep him.
That's basically my option 3 with more positive framing, but I see no reason to believe that improvement from the young ones will more than compensate for further decline of the OGs to the extent needed to even come out of the first round in the West.
OKC, Kings, Dallas, Denver, Minnesota, even the Rockets will likely improve even more next year, and they are already above us in the standings this year. Memphis with Ja and JJJ will be in the mix as well.
Even if the Lakers, Suns, and Clippers all decline more than us, the dubs as currently constructed are a bottom-half team in the West.
Based on your other comments, you appear to think that the main problem with the current team is coaching, while I think the problem is lack of top-end young talent. You may be right, but only time will tell.
Option 1 is what I think (and fear) will happen. I'm hoping they just sit tight and re-assess at the end of the season.
That is Hara Kiri.
Next year is going to come quick, and Moody and Kuminga will either be extended or choose to enter free agency. I have a hard time believing that they will agree to low-ball offers based on not getting the playing time they believe they deserve and could get to improve their value on other teams. So they either have to get paid decently with enough playing time beforehand to allow them to justify staying, or the FO should be seriously looking at trading one or both with other pieces.
So if Klay, Wiggins and Draymond stay, where does the playing time come from? When will Klay and Draymond start taking a reduced salary and minutes to help transition to a younger team? I think the FO needs to see how Klay plays between now and the trade deadline, and how Draymond acts before addressing any of this.
Klay is heading to a very reduced role wherever he goes… unless he climbs fully out of this malaise… he’s been ok offensively, not great, but ok… but I feel like he’s really regressed defensively. He needs to lean hard into Kerr’s stated intention that Klay should be playing the 4…
That depends on the team he goes to. If he goes to a team with quality defensive wings who can penetrate on offense and that has a rim protector, so they mostly need him to space the floor, he could still play a solid rotation role or even start. (That assumes he can find his shot consistently, which he always has before — eventually.) He would not play as many minutes as he used to but it would not have to be a dramatically reduced role.
That’s a reduced role, imo…
I was responding to "very reduced." 😊
I think JK and Moses are both under contract for next season, and then enter RFA at the end of the '24-'25 season, which means that the Dubs can match offers. Still, your concerns regarding playing time and satisfaction are valid regardless.
If they chose #4, trade Steph, and blow it up, it's "interesting" only if you find it interesting to totally suck for several years, with no assurance that you'll turn it around anytime soon. I can't see Lacob doing that. It also would empty the seats at Chase. There's no way they trade Steph unless he asks for it.
>> There's no way they trade Steph unless he asks for it.
Totally agree. Also, Steph would not do this in public, so we wouldn't know. The question is, how successful have Dray and Klay been lately in convincing Steph to keep the old core together? How important is it for him to go into the sunset together vs winning another ring? We'll find out.
If it's Shai in a trade for Curry, I'm in.
Agreed. Also: Is there still a path to a ring with the Steph/Dray/Klay core, with or without Loon, assuming Dunleavy were willing and able to deal JK, Wiggs, and/or others?
I think you're asking it backwards. The question should be, what is the path to a ring with Steph and the young guns? (that is, what minutes distributions/strategies would make the most sense (and don't say zero minutes for youth :-) ))
https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1740832023164469645?s=20
Apparently, team could be open to trading Wiggs. Not sure if it’s the best idea to choose Kuminga over Wiggs. Wiggins at his best is still way better than Kuminga imo. Ofc Kuminga is young, but core 3 isn’t.
The Wiggs and JK can’t coexist narrative to me feels like a pre trade announcement lol. Let’s see who ends up staying between the two of them
Only 2 of the core 3 are consistently playing like they are top 3 on a title team. And the most important one of those has the motor and performance to suggest they deserve moves that will work more than one year, not one year flailing that's almost certain to fail. Thus, it'd be silly to try to maximize this year by trading your best tradable player given:
1)The stats (only 2 titles in 40 years were won after a trade of a rotation player)
2)The system (it is well-known that Kerr-ball is not something you can pick up mid-year)
3)The success level (JK has outplayed Wigs by far so picking Wigs over JK opens lotsa holes)
4)& The space of cap (CP3 & Klay come off the books in July; any needle-mover ruins that)
Unless it's a highway robbery trade that the Lakers pulled off with Westbrook last year, I don't think there's gonna be a lot of options that will spark the team.
I would prefer slightly keeping Kuminga over Wiggs but I think for trade value JK must be considerably higher. So my guess is if GSW wants a needle-mover, I think JK would have to go.
JK packaged with CP3, likely
That could work for a young/rebuilding team that would keep JK for the future, let CP3 walk next season to gain cap space, and would send us a quality veteran who doesn't match their timeline.
>...would send us a quality veteran...
Like who? I'm not saying there's no one, but I'd really like to see who fit's this description that works in a trade.
But, then you have to replace your backup PG. And Steph may need his minutes reduced. I don't know that either Cojo or Podz are up to it, so you need to bring back a PG, too.
If you get a needle-mover AND keep the guy you barely wanted to trade instead of Kuminga, that’s not too bad.