okay. saw some clips of last night and uh... where is this team mentally on the road? poole gets his fair share of blame but guys like klay and even draymond are just having rookie brain farts some possessions. i refuse to believe they can just forget how to play team defense on the road. it has nothing to do with opponents being unreasonably hot from 3 on their home court and we’re just unlucky. that’s what happens when you consistently let nba players get into rhythm with LA fitness type of defense. we know what’s going wrong but what we can’t figure out is why?
It was bad last night for many at times. Watching players walk back on defense, walk to close out on shooters, or not even try, was something.
I wish the Dubs could've pulled out wins against the Clippers and Hawks, and they could've rested Klay, Loon and even Steph, because at times it looked like they were smacked by fatigue. Makes since when you think about some of the great performances those three had put together within the week and only came away with two wins (at home), has to be a gut punch too. It was literally a week ago from when Curry was bent over, huffing and puffing after that Bucks game and they have played four games since, while some of the opponents where coming off three and four days rest in between. This Memphis one on the backend of a back to back was always going to be tough.
Warriors point of attack defense has been their biggest weakness this season. So how come they are #3 in defensive efficiency at home and #28 in defensive efficiency on the road? Is it because opposing team's role players shoot much better in their home court than at Chase Center?
The myriad other explanations the pundits have offered tend to answer a different question — either (1) “why are the Warriors mediocre in general?” or (2) “why is there a home court advantage in the NBA?” — without actually addressing the specific question of why the Warriors’ ‘22-23 home-road split is so anomalous relative to that of other teams.
What's strange is that the home/road difference in opponent 3 point % is a stat that's supposed to mainly be variance. But this season, the difference so dramatic and has lasted for so long that it's hard to believe variance is the sole, or even main, factor.
My own opinion is that the Warriors are something like 70% their home record and 30% their road record and will show up in the playoffs (but also that without Wiggins, this is all sort of moot).
Seen fans suggest starting JK instead of Donte, to add size and athleticism while Wiggs is out. Takes away spacing for sure (may be harder to get to the rim), as you are adding another player some opposing teams may choose not to guard, but if he can make them pay like he did early tonight and it helps the Dubs defensively, why not try it.
I’d paused the game at 108-106, then came back to watch the end. Bane missed a 3, and then Steph dribbled the ball up at mid-speed, missed Dray on the cut, and tried to go 1-on-2 through the defense without even a thought to dump it to Dray… then the next few possessions were no ball movement hero shots. I’ve seen this before.
Also ZOMG that Kuminga sequence where he fumbled the ball OOB and then go called for a brutally terrible loose ball foul…
Felt bad for JK on that one, was a free two points for him and a momentum play for the team, just fumbled it. Pretty much how it goes for the Dubs on the road.
Who knows… these are champions who’ve been doing this for years. I can’t believe they are tired or something… i think it was not trusting Dray to get the shot up with JJJ there
Especially, Steph, Klay and Loon. The three games in four nights caught up, even though post game Curry said he felt fine, and it's not an excuse (wouldn't expect him to say anything differently).
Let's give some credit to the Griz on their SEGABABA. That team was humming; did you guys see how they were whipping the ball around...37 assists, shot lights out/47 percent 3pters and made 5 more than we did. We got our TOs down to only13, but they had only 6 TOs. Seems they play better without Ja....they killed us in the interior...let's face it, we sure could have used a serviceable bona fide 7 footer...
Grizz did play well, in particular Bane, JJJ, Tyus were playing strong and making good decisions. Brooks and Roddy's threes (7/8) were quite killer and annoying -- I mean these guys are worse 3point shooters this year than any Warrior other than Iggy and Looney. Draymond could shoot 8 open threes a game if he wanted, and if he makes 7 then I'm not sure if there's much the opponent can do to win. For awhile Kuminga's equally unusual 3 point success kept it close, but then his stopped falling.
In any case regardless of those frustrating makes, the Grizzlies outplayed the Warriors in general. Not too surprising, but a lucky win would have felt nice.
The shooting the Dubs deal with on the road is something else. I missed the beginning of the last game, but heard about John Collins playing out of his mind in the first. Brooks going 4/4..makes no sense. Can't lose sight of Bane and Kennard, who are true shooters though.
Brooks makes sense to me. We may say we helped him rekindle his game...is that right, Dray....In addition, methinks the entire Griz team took that yapping personally...
I started listening to the game with Warriors up big, then Collins hit 2 or 3 3s in a row, and it was like - forget it, the Dubs are toast.
One possible explanation is that the coaches are using analytics and feel like they can drop off players with lousy 3 point percentages, only to learn that they shoot better at home.
One thing is we often don't switch fast enough and close out on shooters so we're leaving them open too often. Why on the road more than home, beats me. Or maybe we do it at home too but they shoot worse at Chase than at their own arenas.
The Warriors outrebounded the Grizz, had more blocked shots, more than twice as many free throws, and outscored them if you don’t count three pointers. Not seeing where they got “killed on the interior.”
What they really could have used is two elite perimeter defenders like Wiggins and Payton.
Ah, good point about points in the paint. But as you say, three pointers DO count — and the entire margin of victory last night (+1) was the Grizzlies’ 15-point advantage from 3.
Give the Warriors the edge in rebounding, blocks, and free throws, and the Grizz the edge in points in the paint and call it a push on the interior?
Because every loss, injury, or good game by a tall opponent requires the need to proclaim, if only our inept FO had signed Robin Lopez (and our stubborn coach actually let him play!) they would have already been crafting the Dubs 5th ring!
I have no such need, but it is obvious to the most-casual observer an effective 7 foot rim-protector may make a difference on our defensive ability to avail players to cover ground and close-in/challenge opponent open 3pt shots. May also add the 3 rebs needed to cover the negligent 42-39 edge we had, our 8-5 blocked -Jackson, alone had 4; I remember JW having 3 in ONE SEQUENCE- shot edge, and certainly make a difference in the number of altered shots, rather than fouls, undersized players commit in the interior. It is no fluke that Memphis with a 6'10'' athletic Jackson -a team that normally relies on interior scoring to win- is where it is in the standings. Not to mention the wear and tear on undersized players who have to sag in the interior. When Jackson and the rest of the Griz started making 3s out of their mind, to boot, I remember thinking it was game over in spite of our best defensive efforts. The fact is, they have players who played better defense on US, diminishing the effectiveness of Steph and Klay- than we could on THEM.
Wiseman’s an atrocious defender, though. I can totally buy the argument that the Warriors constructed the roster this season somewhat poorly, without enough big man depth — if for no other reason than to relieve some of the regular season wear and tear on Dray and Loon and the other medium-sized guys (as you allude to). But it’s a highly far-fetched premise to me that said depth could/should have been provided by one of the worst defensive players in the league — who also has a 1:3 assist to turnover ratio, a selfish, “get mine” approach to offense, and almost no concept of the high-level screening, passing, and decision-making required in Kerrball.
Defense is typically far more important than scoring for bigs in any case. Being really tall and putting up nice-looking fantasy/individual stats (incl. blocks and rebounds) actually has very little to do with playing winning basketball at the center position. Hassan Whiteside is bigger and longer than Wiseman and put up far better individual stats (rebounding, blocks, efficiency, e.g.) and is out of the league. Bill Russell was 6’-8” 240 and averaged 12.8 pts per 36 on .471 true shooting over his career … and was by far the best player on an 11-time NBA champ. It’s all about the D and the hoops IQ, not the fantasy points.
I’d also note that we all (including me!) freaked out last season about the lack of big man depth on the roster last season, too … and things turned out okay. Unless we want to argue the difference between Bjelica-Otto and JaMychal-Kuminga is a game-changer?
To me the biggest issue right now is that our second best player in last year’s playoffs and de facto “third big” is not with us and possibly gone for the season. But that was totally unforeseeable; and no random backup big was ever going to replace an elite 27 y.o. modern NBA forward who destroyed Luka and Tatum in consecutive series en route to a title just nine months ago. Without Wiggs, the season was effectively lost either way, imo.
With him … they still have statistically the top starting 5 in the league and (imo) a puncher’s chance.
Well as you pointed out we have the top starting five in the league, but, it's a long season and the second season, playoffs and 'Ships, are won with DEPTH and a solid bench. Last season we had a solid bench weaned on Kerrball, and totally lucked-out with OTO AND GP2 playing bigger than anyone knew in the season and PLAYOFFS. Bjelica helped us during the regular season but not much in the playoff run. We have not had that depth this season...obviously. No doubt, Wiggs is a major loss, but we were in trouble before we lost him. I need mention teams have gotten much better at playing OUR game over the last decade, Sleepy; there are a lot of kids now in the NBA who grew up watching Splash do their thing, and they are hungry as hell. lol
I have not been able to watch the last two games because the MyTeams app stopped working. I tried watching the highlights on the the NBA YouTube channel but I counted 42 Grizzlies highlights to 13 Warriors highlights. So I have no clue of how any players looked during the game… maybe that’s a good thing but still, they need to even out those highlights.
To people upset at Klay - till very recently, he wasn't playing B2B. Also he had to guard Bane this game even though injuries have robbed him of that elite defense against guards
Shot of him looking defeated on the bench during garbage time made me more sad than the loss itself. Steph and Dray had a lighter mood
I wouldn't be surprised if he was mulling on what he has lost.
seems like this happens on the road all the time and doesnt at home - so I dont buy this argument - I think it is a broken morale/team vibe/mojo/it factor - whatever the reason
If team morale was that bad on the road why would it be so good at home? Even a friendly crowd wouldn't fix broken morale, plus when we played the Clips in LA there were plenty of Dubs fans there and you could hear 'em.
Teams won’t play as well at chase vs on their own court. Idk if this morale thing is true or not but also it’ll probably be easier to deal with it when you’re home with your families and what not vs when you’re on the road and are only with the team
Was hoping Dray would've brought the energy tonight coming off the suspension, but he did just say last week that it is extremely hard for him to care/ get up for games in March.
I was hoping the Dubs were onto something, we shall see the rest of the way. A game every other day + the back 2 back may have got them in this one especially.
Damn this team is rough to watch rn. Klays defense stood out to me as particularly terrible this game. Just feels like his intensity is turned to down to about a 4 sometimes, it's not the playoffs but can we get at least like a 7?
Can the road record slump be related to a fractious locker room? Draymond seems to feel this is his last year in the Bay. Poole lost his mojo, and he must really miss it. I know if Steph Curry got sick of me at work, it would really mess with my head. The Wiseman vibes, the GPII injury, Andre’s health, whatever poor Wiggins is dealing with. This season is one helluva Championship Hangover.
It used to work when it was something that rosters didn’t adjust to. Everyone plays this way and designs their roster the same way now. It’s not really an advantage any more lik it was in the past.
Losing to the Grizz is more annoying than an average loss … but any game where JK kicks ass makes me happy, so I’ll call this a slightly less bad than average loss.
New space: https://dubnationhq.com/p/dub-nation-hq-comments-of-week-plus-7c6
okay. saw some clips of last night and uh... where is this team mentally on the road? poole gets his fair share of blame but guys like klay and even draymond are just having rookie brain farts some possessions. i refuse to believe they can just forget how to play team defense on the road. it has nothing to do with opponents being unreasonably hot from 3 on their home court and we’re just unlucky. that’s what happens when you consistently let nba players get into rhythm with LA fitness type of defense. we know what’s going wrong but what we can’t figure out is why?
Klay was horrible and Draymond effort level definitely has not been consistent all year
It was bad last night for many at times. Watching players walk back on defense, walk to close out on shooters, or not even try, was something.
I wish the Dubs could've pulled out wins against the Clippers and Hawks, and they could've rested Klay, Loon and even Steph, because at times it looked like they were smacked by fatigue. Makes since when you think about some of the great performances those three had put together within the week and only came away with two wins (at home), has to be a gut punch too. It was literally a week ago from when Curry was bent over, huffing and puffing after that Bucks game and they have played four games since, while some of the opponents where coming off three and four days rest in between. This Memphis one on the backend of a back to back was always going to be tough.
Too painful too watch
Warriors point of attack defense has been their biggest weakness this season. So how come they are #3 in defensive efficiency at home and #28 in defensive efficiency on the road? Is it because opposing team's role players shoot much better in their home court than at Chase Center?
Two possible answers:
1. Random variance, mostly.
2. Who the heck knows.
The myriad other explanations the pundits have offered tend to answer a different question — either (1) “why are the Warriors mediocre in general?” or (2) “why is there a home court advantage in the NBA?” — without actually addressing the specific question of why the Warriors’ ‘22-23 home-road split is so anomalous relative to that of other teams.
What's strange is that the home/road difference in opponent 3 point % is a stat that's supposed to mainly be variance. But this season, the difference so dramatic and has lasted for so long that it's hard to believe variance is the sole, or even main, factor.
My own opinion is that the Warriors are something like 70% their home record and 30% their road record and will show up in the playoffs (but also that without Wiggins, this is all sort of moot).
Seen fans suggest starting JK instead of Donte, to add size and athleticism while Wiggs is out. Takes away spacing for sure (may be harder to get to the rim), as you are adding another player some opposing teams may choose not to guard, but if he can make them pay like he did early tonight and it helps the Dubs defensively, why not try it.
I’d paused the game at 108-106, then came back to watch the end. Bane missed a 3, and then Steph dribbled the ball up at mid-speed, missed Dray on the cut, and tried to go 1-on-2 through the defense without even a thought to dump it to Dray… then the next few possessions were no ball movement hero shots. I’ve seen this before.
Also ZOMG that Kuminga sequence where he fumbled the ball OOB and then go called for a brutally terrible loose ball foul…
Felt bad for JK on that one, was a free two points for him and a momentum play for the team, just fumbled it. Pretty much how it goes for the Dubs on the road.
Mental and/or physical fatigue? Seems like Curry and the starters were gassed at that point.
Who knows… these are champions who’ve been doing this for years. I can’t believe they are tired or something… i think it was not trusting Dray to get the shot up with JJJ there
Especially, Steph, Klay and Loon. The three games in four nights caught up, even though post game Curry said he felt fine, and it's not an excuse (wouldn't expect him to say anything differently).
Let's give some credit to the Griz on their SEGABABA. That team was humming; did you guys see how they were whipping the ball around...37 assists, shot lights out/47 percent 3pters and made 5 more than we did. We got our TOs down to only13, but they had only 6 TOs. Seems they play better without Ja....they killed us in the interior...let's face it, we sure could have used a serviceable bona fide 7 footer...
Grizz did play well, in particular Bane, JJJ, Tyus were playing strong and making good decisions. Brooks and Roddy's threes (7/8) were quite killer and annoying -- I mean these guys are worse 3point shooters this year than any Warrior other than Iggy and Looney. Draymond could shoot 8 open threes a game if he wanted, and if he makes 7 then I'm not sure if there's much the opponent can do to win. For awhile Kuminga's equally unusual 3 point success kept it close, but then his stopped falling.
In any case regardless of those frustrating makes, the Grizzlies outplayed the Warriors in general. Not too surprising, but a lucky win would have felt nice.
The shooting the Dubs deal with on the road is something else. I missed the beginning of the last game, but heard about John Collins playing out of his mind in the first. Brooks going 4/4..makes no sense. Can't lose sight of Bane and Kennard, who are true shooters though.
Brooks makes sense to me. We may say we helped him rekindle his game...is that right, Dray....In addition, methinks the entire Griz team took that yapping personally...
In that sense yes, I'm use to him at least trying to play well against the Dubs, sometimes shooting his team out of it trying, but 4/4 is something..
I started listening to the game with Warriors up big, then Collins hit 2 or 3 3s in a row, and it was like - forget it, the Dubs are toast.
One possible explanation is that the coaches are using analytics and feel like they can drop off players with lousy 3 point percentages, only to learn that they shoot better at home.
One thing is we often don't switch fast enough and close out on shooters so we're leaving them open too often. Why on the road more than home, beats me. Or maybe we do it at home too but they shoot worse at Chase than at their own arenas.
Don’t forget Roddy’s 3/4…
The Warriors outrebounded the Grizz, had more blocked shots, more than twice as many free throws, and outscored them if you don’t count three pointers. Not seeing where they got “killed on the interior.”
What they really could have used is two elite perimeter defenders like Wiggins and Payton.
They had 60 points in the paint, Sleepy, to our 44. Unfortunately you DO count 3pters.
Ah, good point about points in the paint. But as you say, three pointers DO count — and the entire margin of victory last night (+1) was the Grizzlies’ 15-point advantage from 3.
Give the Warriors the edge in rebounding, blocks, and free throws, and the Grizz the edge in points in the paint and call it a push on the interior?
Lol, I'll never take you on when you are cherry-picking stats, Sleepy; you are THE master.
Because every loss, injury, or good game by a tall opponent requires the need to proclaim, if only our inept FO had signed Robin Lopez (and our stubborn coach actually let him play!) they would have already been crafting the Dubs 5th ring!
I have no such need, but it is obvious to the most-casual observer an effective 7 foot rim-protector may make a difference on our defensive ability to avail players to cover ground and close-in/challenge opponent open 3pt shots. May also add the 3 rebs needed to cover the negligent 42-39 edge we had, our 8-5 blocked -Jackson, alone had 4; I remember JW having 3 in ONE SEQUENCE- shot edge, and certainly make a difference in the number of altered shots, rather than fouls, undersized players commit in the interior. It is no fluke that Memphis with a 6'10'' athletic Jackson -a team that normally relies on interior scoring to win- is where it is in the standings. Not to mention the wear and tear on undersized players who have to sag in the interior. When Jackson and the rest of the Griz started making 3s out of their mind, to boot, I remember thinking it was game over in spite of our best defensive efforts. The fact is, they have players who played better defense on US, diminishing the effectiveness of Steph and Klay- than we could on THEM.
Wiseman’s an atrocious defender, though. I can totally buy the argument that the Warriors constructed the roster this season somewhat poorly, without enough big man depth — if for no other reason than to relieve some of the regular season wear and tear on Dray and Loon and the other medium-sized guys (as you allude to). But it’s a highly far-fetched premise to me that said depth could/should have been provided by one of the worst defensive players in the league — who also has a 1:3 assist to turnover ratio, a selfish, “get mine” approach to offense, and almost no concept of the high-level screening, passing, and decision-making required in Kerrball.
Defense is typically far more important than scoring for bigs in any case. Being really tall and putting up nice-looking fantasy/individual stats (incl. blocks and rebounds) actually has very little to do with playing winning basketball at the center position. Hassan Whiteside is bigger and longer than Wiseman and put up far better individual stats (rebounding, blocks, efficiency, e.g.) and is out of the league. Bill Russell was 6’-8” 240 and averaged 12.8 pts per 36 on .471 true shooting over his career … and was by far the best player on an 11-time NBA champ. It’s all about the D and the hoops IQ, not the fantasy points.
I’d also note that we all (including me!) freaked out last season about the lack of big man depth on the roster last season, too … and things turned out okay. Unless we want to argue the difference between Bjelica-Otto and JaMychal-Kuminga is a game-changer?
To me the biggest issue right now is that our second best player in last year’s playoffs and de facto “third big” is not with us and possibly gone for the season. But that was totally unforeseeable; and no random backup big was ever going to replace an elite 27 y.o. modern NBA forward who destroyed Luka and Tatum in consecutive series en route to a title just nine months ago. Without Wiggs, the season was effectively lost either way, imo.
With him … they still have statistically the top starting 5 in the league and (imo) a puncher’s chance.
Well as you pointed out we have the top starting five in the league, but, it's a long season and the second season, playoffs and 'Ships, are won with DEPTH and a solid bench. Last season we had a solid bench weaned on Kerrball, and totally lucked-out with OTO AND GP2 playing bigger than anyone knew in the season and PLAYOFFS. Bjelica helped us during the regular season but not much in the playoff run. We have not had that depth this season...obviously. No doubt, Wiggs is a major loss, but we were in trouble before we lost him. I need mention teams have gotten much better at playing OUR game over the last decade, Sleepy; there are a lot of kids now in the NBA who grew up watching Splash do their thing, and they are hungry as hell. lol
I have not been able to watch the last two games because the MyTeams app stopped working. I tried watching the highlights on the the NBA YouTube channel but I counted 42 Grizzlies highlights to 13 Warriors highlights. So I have no clue of how any players looked during the game… maybe that’s a good thing but still, they need to even out those highlights.
Nba fullhd
Depending on how you were logging in to the myteams app, you may be able to stream from nbc sports bay area site: https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea
To people upset at Klay - till very recently, he wasn't playing B2B. Also he had to guard Bane this game even though injuries have robbed him of that elite defense against guards
Shot of him looking defeated on the bench during garbage time made me more sad than the loss itself. Steph and Dray had a lighter mood
I wouldn't be surprised if he was mulling on what he has lost.
4 time champ - we with you.
What about yesterday
seems like this happens on the road all the time and doesnt at home - so I dont buy this argument - I think it is a broken morale/team vibe/mojo/it factor - whatever the reason
If team morale was that bad on the road why would it be so good at home? Even a friendly crowd wouldn't fix broken morale, plus when we played the Clips in LA there were plenty of Dubs fans there and you could hear 'em.
Teams won’t play as well at chase vs on their own court. Idk if this morale thing is true or not but also it’ll probably be easier to deal with it when you’re home with your families and what not vs when you’re on the road and are only with the team
I guess. Really we're all speculating based on no information or inside knowledge so one guess is as good/bad as another.
Was hoping Dray would've brought the energy tonight coming off the suspension, but he did just say last week that it is extremely hard for him to care/ get up for games in March.
I was hoping the Dubs were onto something, we shall see the rest of the way. A game every other day + the back 2 back may have got them in this one especially.
It's possible that they are sort of resigned to the fact that Wiggs is not coming back
Jazz beat the Celtics 118-117. Jazz move to 34-36 and to the #10 spot, while the Lakers fall to the #11 spot.
Damn this team is rough to watch rn. Klays defense stood out to me as particularly terrible this game. Just feels like his intensity is turned to down to about a 4 sometimes, it's not the playoffs but can we get at least like a 7?
Can’t wait for the tell all Marcus Thompson book on this season
wow, we doubled them up in free throws and still lost by double digits.
Bench had over half of the Warriors total points as well.
Can the road record slump be related to a fractious locker room? Draymond seems to feel this is his last year in the Bay. Poole lost his mojo, and he must really miss it. I know if Steph Curry got sick of me at work, it would really mess with my head. The Wiseman vibes, the GPII injury, Andre’s health, whatever poor Wiggins is dealing with. This season is one helluva Championship Hangover.
All of the above
or may be we are missing our POA defenders which makes us over help and give up open 3s.
Home crowd carries the team over the hump where as not so on road
or it could be that our small ball adamancy is a stupid strategy in todays NBA!
It used to work when it was something that rosters didn’t adjust to. Everyone plays this way and designs their roster the same way now. It’s not really an advantage any more lik it was in the past.
Losing to the Grizz is more annoying than an average loss … but any game where JK kicks ass makes me happy, so I’ll call this a slightly less bad than average loss.
moody looked like he had a decent outing too? don’t know if it came in garbage time.
100% shooting.
It was mostly during garbage time, I believe.
Somewhat true. He had some solid moments earlier in the game too. And it’s continuing a trend for him.
Yeah. The great thing about JK was that he mostly did it against the starters. Roofing JJJ at the rim was a big highlight.
Bonus stats:
Thompson: (-30)
14 points, 6/17 FGs, 2/9 threes
1 rebound, 1 turnover, 1 block
Lamb: (+8)
8 points, 1/5 FGs, 0/3 threes, 6/7 FTs
4 rebounds, 1 block
DiVincenzo: (-10)
3 points, 1/3 FGs, 1/2 threes
5 rebounds (2 off.), 7 assists, 3 turnovers
Moody: (+1)
9 points, 4/4 FGs, 1/1 three, 0/1 FT
2 rebounds (2 off.), 1 block
Aldama: (-8)
4 points, 2/3 FGs
3 rebounds (2 off.), 1 assist, 1 block
Lofton Jr.: (-4)
2 points, 1/3 FGs, 0/2 threes
1 rebound (1 off.)