If curry is going to be held on the last play of the game Everytime we need to start using him as a decoy, our end of game execution is fucking horrible.
Wide open, closest person was at the freethrow line not paying attention to him, instead bazemore throws it to curry running away from the basket with AD draped all over him
That's like saying you didn't you crash your car because I cut the brake lines... because you still had a steering wheel.
Honestly, I know it is fruitless to harp on the officiating, but we should get time to grieve. I can see from my comment history, I have complained a fair bit and I am close to moving on. But everyone has a different way to deal with that last night.
I don't think that's a fair analogy. We were already faltering with that horrible 3rd quarter. It's more like if I was already going to crash and you made it worse by cutting the breaks
Ok. How about... You were going to crash anyways because you like to drive reckless because, really, driving is super easy for you that you get bored at times, still I cut the brakes, but then I threw myself on your hood and rolled around on the street acting like I was being gored by bulls in Pamplona?
Some of those botched calls in the 2nd half absolutely affected this game on top of the careless turnovers. They all played a part in last night's loss. We only accept bad calls as part of the game because it happens almost every single game but the truth is it DOES play a part in affecting the game's outcome. We're just used to it because humans aren't perfect and there will always be mistakes with officiating. With that being said a loss is a loss and we'll probably be on the good end of that stick some time soon
I'm not saying the bad calls didn't affect the game. Of course they did. But if they corrected the part they do have control over aka the sloppy play, they win the game.
I had a disagreement with a friend about baseball. I got tired of a small set of teams that load the dice with vastly superior payrolls. He said it didn't matter and other teams with small payrolls win too. I said that the issue is that they're loading the dice. It doesn't guarantee they will win, but it does give you more favorable odds.
The calls were like that. The Lakers had to play very well to win the game. That LeBron shot was absurd. Could we have won with fewer turnovers/better shooting/etc? Yes. But the dice were loaded. (Not saying it was intentional, just the calls gave the Lakers an advantage overall).
After having a night to digest the game, I feel torn. I was probably more upset last night than I ever have been after a game and I was not sure exactly why.
This morning I have a better idea. I think what I was feeling last night was calling into question my entire understanding of what NBA basketball is. Is it competition or is it entertainment? If it is entertainment, then fine last night can be tossed aside and we can come back next game emboldened to try harder. If it is competition, then there is a problem. In a competition you know the rules before the contest, both side agree and the officials are there to enforce those rules to the best of their ability, in a fair and balanced manner. Human error is what it is, so if we consider those calls "human error" then we have to call into question competency. If they were not human error and were deliberate, then we have a different problem. Now we call into question bias. If there was bias what was done if anything to correct it? Not much in my opinion. On the contrary there seemed to be an effort as one person mentioned to "gaslight" the viewer to believing what they were witnessing was a fair enforcement of the rules. This brings me to my third possibility that this is systemic. The networks buy rights to broadcast these games. They pay LOTS of money. They then hire a select few announcers to "narrate" to the viewer. JVG and Mark Jackson are the perfect people to make all sides feel they got screwed. Bill Walton was great at this. This is not just about creating tension but more about creating doubt. Create doubt in the mind of the offended viewer that what they just saw was not as egregious as they feel it is. Because the other side feels the same way. So it has to be fair, right? No, not always. The thumb on the scale only works when it is done in secret. When it is not so obvious that all sides agree it was unfair. That is where you need doubt.
LeBron is a great athlete that made a great shot at a ridiculously crunch moment. That is true. But that moment should not have existed on a fair and balanced playing field. I guess all I am saying is I am questioning why I ever allow myself to believe this is competition, why I allow myself to be subjected to voices telling me something is what I know it isn't. Watching Steph Curry play basketball is pure joy. It has come at a cost to myself and my family however. I am probably getting too deep and tomorrow I will be yelling at my screen like every other fanatic, but right now I feel like Truman has seen the light fall from the sky again. At some point I will have to believe it.
It is very important to remember that a foul occurs on every play, if we are going by the definitive rules. Therefore, NBA refereeing will always be subjective and imperfect, and rely on whatever areas of focus individual referees as well as teams of referees bring with them. When you keep this in mind, it's kind of a miracle that games are as problem-free as they are when it comes to officiating. Certainly problems need to be looked at and addressed, but this is some important context to consider, in my opinion.
I accept that there is human error in every game. When that human error seems very strongly to always favor one of the two teams in a contest, fans have a right to be mad. No one expects officiating to be perfect but there needs to be at least some consistency. If you're going to call ticky-tack fouls on one end and ignore blatant maulings on the other end, possession after possession, it's more than fair to question the quality and intent of the officiating crew.
What I find myself emphasizing mentally is that the Warriors turned the ball over too much. If they didn't cough up all those turnovers, it wouldn't have mattered that the refs sucked.
This was a very winnable game. Crazy shot from Bron, and a couple of badly missed calls at the end just makes the final minutes of the game feel more important. But to even be as close as it was, those turnovers were really to blame
Can't both things be true though? The Warriors turned the ball over too many times and put themselves in a bad position, but the refs also made a series of bad calls down the stretch of the most important minutes of the game that sealed the victory for LA. One truth does not preclude another. I can desire the Warriors to improve their ball protection while still seeing that they obviously got the short end of the stick from the officiating crew, play after play after play.
But that is simply human error. If every foul in every game was called it would be unwatchable. The assumption is that we are watching a balanced playing field and the calls will even out on both sides. Which they tend to do. But that does't mean it is fair. Timeouts are not just breaks for players to rest. They are also intended to disrupt flow, which in the game of basketball is critical. If Steph hits consecutive shots, a good coach will probably call a timeout. Not because his players are tired, but because he is disrupting the flow. When referees do this at specific times it can have a huge effect on the game. Sure they can even out the calls at a different point in the game, but does that then make it balanced? I can accept human error, but deliberate manipulation is something different.
The game wouldn't necessarily be unwatchable. Players grab, hold, and push because the refs let them. If the refs started calling players for these acts, then players would learn over time do them less.
They would need to do it at the start of the regular season to let players adapt to the game being called as it should be. The way it is reffed is a choice.
I'm glad our young guys got to have the experience of a high stakes game on arguably one of the brightest stages in basketball. Soak in that moment Jordan Poole, you'll be seeing a lot of those in the future
Marc Gasol made a mistake joining the Lakers. He could have played with the best shooters in the world but now he gets to sit on the bench and watch the best actor in the world.
Yea, I was thinking that. A bunch of those ring-chasers are now nailed to the bench. Morris is another one. Even Harrell didn't get a lot of minutes. Maybe some might be available to us this offseason.
What a great game! I don’t care about the final score as much as I care about development. What this team showed us last night was confirmation of what we’ve been suspecting over the past two months, that this homegrown team doesn’t need a Durant or a Giannis to win another championship. They are showing a middle finger to everyone who thought they made a mistake in not trading one or two of the big three to somehow keep Durant (if that was even possible). For those who thought Kerr and the original big three would never recover from the loss of “crafty vets” like Iguodala, Livingston, West, Zaza, Barbosa... the last month has them swallowing their tongues. (Indeed, they managed to keep many in management and coaching!) The Warriors OG are demonstrating AGAIN their enormous talent as well as their ability to teach Warriors small ball.
After the first few games of the season, how could any Warriors fan be upset with what happened last night? Our guys stood toe to toe with the champs and reminded the world they are only one Klay Thompson away from another title.
> After the first few games of the season, how could any Warriors fan be upset with what happened last night? Our guys stood toe to toe with the champs and reminded the world they are only one Klay Thompson away from another title.
THIS.
Look, losing sucks, but for people (like me) that were pretty down after the DLo/Wiggins trades, this season has been a reaffirmation. Add Klay to this squad and we are right back in legit championship contention. Playoff Wiggins looked great, Poole is legit, and JTA was a factor in a meaningful playoff game. Things are fine. This game was in reach. I don't like the "should have won" angle, just going to stop myself at the "could have won" point.
That was a free shot at the Lakers. Now it's survival mode! I feel good about getting by the Grizz, and at least doing enough to scare the Jazz a little.
I'm upset because Curry and Draymond shouldn't have had to reaffirm themselves to the organization, and the organization shouldn't have done the bare minimum to support them this season. This team could have easily been in the top 6 if they signed a starting center, and imo could have won this game if they had a deeper rotation over the past few months instead of 2 empty rosters spots.
It's funny- these Lakers seem built to beat the Dubs, and yet I can't help but see us running circles around them when Klay is back. The league is going to be reminded of what the Warriors at full strength mean, and it's going to be a rude awakening for them and a breath of fresh air for us.
They do have the best defense in the league. I don't like losing to the Lakers but they do deserve some credit. It's almost a miracle we made it this far.
And quite frankly, their size advantage would only be magnified over a long series. And their stars weren't at 100%. Warriors aren't going to be able to run it back with Klay and beat the Lakers, especially not if Wiseman is their starting center come playoff time. They could definitely beat the Lakers if they make some win now moves though imo.
Once AD decided to go into the post it was curtains. It's a tough solution because even with Wiseman and Chriss back, Dray/Looney is still going to be our most favorable matchup against these guys.
Probably won't matter a whole lot next year because I doubt the Lakers bring back Drummond AND Gasol
We lost on a very lucky 34 foot bomb. Score was tied and we would have had a great chance to win. That's not accounting for getting shafted by a bunch of bad calls.
So no, it wasn't "curtains". It did turn the tide for the Lakers though. AD is pretty pretty good.
They won't bring back Drummond but Gasol is on a 2 year contract. Ideally they'd trade him to the Warriors but I kinda doubt they'd make a deal with a team they would deem as competition. They'll definitely find someone better than Drummond in free agency though.
Whatever size advantage they had last night wasn't really fully realized, and remember that mismatches go both ways. The difference we get from adding Klay, one of the best shooters of all-time, an incredible off-ball mover, and a great defender, is bigger than any advantage the Lakers get from a longer series and better health.
The size advantage would be magnified over a long series though, not a single game elimination play-in (which is more advantageous for the smaller team). Look at their bubble series against the Rockets and Heat in the bubble, two teams who were smaller than them inside. Both of them looked like they just wanted to quit by the end of that series, the Lakers bullied them both.
I don't think we can count on Klay to be a great defender post-Achilles surgery, which is one of the reasons I think it's crucial they retain Oubre (and also why they would need a defensive upgrade at the center position to compensate). But even if Klay is still "that guy" defensively after his injury, the Warriors aren't competing with the Lakers if Wiseman is factoring into the rotation. He's way too young and inexperienced, can you imagine how out of place he would have looked in that game last night? The Warriors have the pieces to construct a team that can win the championship next season, but just running this group back with Klay isn't going to get it done imo.
Running back this team with Klay would beat most of these other fraudulent Western Conference teams though for sure. Quite frankly I think the Warriors can beat any of these teams except the Lakers and Clippers right now. Gotta get there first though.
Agree. When the Lakers kept adding star level talent in the off-season, they seemed invincible. But last night showed you can only play five at a time - and how a player fits is more important than raw talent. As a team, the Warriors fit better together than the Lakers with their four centers. (Though, if offered, I’d take one off of them to help Loon and Dray out 15 mins per game.)
Wiseman needs massive lower body strength training. He's still young, so it's fine, but I hope he is prioritizing whatever he can do about solidifying his base while recovering from knee surgery.
He will need to learn some of what what Loon and Dray know. And Chriss will take some minutes too. But, yes, my hope is JW will play increasing minutes next year.
Alas, the MVP race is over, according to the spreadsheet posted here a couple days ago that complied the announced choices of voters. It’s Jokic by a mile, followed by Embiid, Curry, Giannis, and CP3. IIRC, Embiid and Steph were pretty close, so it wouldn’t shock me to Steph rise to #2, given all the buzz he got towards the end of the season. But at last count Jokic was close to unanimous.
Whether Jokic deserves it is another question ... I’d vote Steph, but think Jokic is a perfectly worthy choice.
On a related note, it still weirds me out that the stats from last night’s game (and tomorrow’s) count neither towards regular season stats/awards nor towards playoff stats. So basically last night’s game didn’t happen?
They're probably confused, but I hope they'll settle this eventually. I'd vote for counting them as playoffs -- not that they've called yet to ask. But I'm sitting by the phone...
Lol. Amazing, I almost asked the question in here two days ago, how will the stats for play-ins be handled. Leave it to you, Sleepy, to read my mind and answer the question. Thanks.
Curry and Wiggins did their thing, Bazemore looked good that 1st quarter and Poole had some big shots, but not the couple that really mattered at the very end of the game. Draymond got stuffed everytime he tried going to the rim...
This was the only move I question from Kerr in that game. In theory he wanted more shooting on the floor because that Laker defense was suffocating but in practice I trust JTA to hit the shot more than Mulder lol.
Mulder is shooting a similar percentage, at a far higher frequency, while actually being guarded (teams are leaving JTA open to shoot threes). I definitely trust Mulder to hit those shots more than JTA.
The King is still the King. Lebron can never be underestimated. We played with heart but luck also has some contribution. Let's face it, Steph and Dray were very sloppy and substract 2 of those TO's and it would have been a different story. Ah well, we are powerless to change outcomes.
What doesn't bode well for me was watching Memphis take SA apart down the stretch. I fear our game with them could end our run if we have a repeat of this sloppiness. Add Klay to this game and we would be #7 ready and willing to dismantle Phoenix.
King my ass, just a drama queen, but maybe it's not his fault, it's his sports drugs that keep him playing at this level and that's why he has his hormonal changes
The man legitimately got poked in the eye, but I have no doubt that he sold it (though the refs didn't buy it). With that being said, Draymond literally spends half his time on the court arguing with the refs/complaining/lobbying.
Lobbying refs exists in the same realm as flopping/baiting fouls . . . I hate its existence but recognize that they can help toward winning.
No words at all about the LAkers complaining to the refs after every call in the 2nd half? How come Dray is the only one that gets flak for this? I am rewatching the game right now and Lebron and Co. are complaining to the refs almost. every. single. play.
They can also get someone kicked out of the game. I was really wishing some of Dray's teammates would drag him away from the refs. Chirping like that after already having one tech is playing with fire. And given that they're playing on the road, with an officiating crew that was already not calling it all that evenly.... I was cringing the whole time he was complaining to the refs.
I agree, some of these people saying we could add Klay and not be in championship contention are dramatically underestimating this team. We'd already be 5/6 seed if Steph hadn't been injured, with Klay on the team we'd be far better.
had sometime to relax, unwind, come to terms with the loss and think about Memphis....
BUT FOR F$&K SAKE THAT WAS F&$KING RIGGED!!!
HOW THE HELL CAN THE REFS BE SO BLATANT!!!
WHY IS AD SO SOFT??! WHY DOES HE THINK HE IS BATMAN??! HE ISNT EVEN ROBIN. OR IF HE IS , HE IS LIKE AN AWKWARD MIDDLE AGED CHRIS O’DONNELL ROBIN WHO CANT DO COOL SHIT!
Anyway shouting over...now I’m going to watch the Lakers v Sacramento 2002 WCF to make me realise we weren’t shafted as much as that.
Its always hilarious to me that every team's fans always think they got shafted by the refs after a loss. Sometimes they actually have, but the vast majority of the time they're just coping. As for this game, I have no idea if we actually were screwed over, I'd have to rewatch.
Someone else watched part of the Memphis Teddybears’ game? What do you think? Anything else to do apart boxing out the Viking or get six fouls in three minutes for Brooks?
I was drunk or on an airplane for most of this game so take what I'll say with a grain for a salt but I was entirely happy with the supporting cast. Steph and dray had several crucial turnovers and dumb possessions which gave the lakers an advantage. The rest of the team performed admirably. Aside from that one stupid play where Wiggins dropped the ball on a wide open dunk, he did amazing!!
Wiggins scored well and single covered LeBron well so I'm not saying he played poorly but 3 rebounds in a game like that is inexcusable imo. Lakers had 13 offensive rebounds, some of those needed to be Wiggins' defensive rebounds.
I'm going to add to this. Let me preface this with just because I'm being critical doesn't mean I'm wrong...
Draymond can't have 2 points. As effective as he is in the game, you can't have 2 points. He did AMAZING on defense for sure but 8 assists and 6 turnovers..? Nah that ain't it.
Draymond having 2 points is what happens when you have AD (whose nearly as good a defensive player as Dray) guarding him. I'm fine with that, its understandable. What's NOT understandable is the 6 turnovers . . . we need Dray/Steph to be the primary decision makers allowing for our offense to hum, and when they turn the ball over like that we compromise our defense.
I mean ... you are wrong: you can, in fact, have two points. Draymond just did. :-(
If you mean it would have been nice for him to score more and commit fewer turnovers ... sure. Pretty sure that’s an uncontroversial enough premise that you don’t need to preface it with “just so you know, the thing I’m about to say is right”? ;-P
Let me also add this, as critical as I've been on Steph, he still proved he's the best player in the world. It's just that with a little less turnovers he would have had the win along with it
Man, I was so ready to be happy they played a half decent game against the Lakers and lost by ten or so. But this was not that. This was a great game they played.
To the people saying Steph and Dray gave the ball away with turnovers. Look at those plays. Guys are getting stepped into and grabbed all over the court with no calls, all to take away their freedom of movement. When a Laker gets hit with a hard screen, the Warriors are called for an offensive foul, which is itself a turnover. Not every turnover is a lazy pass, and any pass can look like a lazy pass when the cutter you're passing to gets physically stopped on their way to the ball.
I am even more mad today than I was last night. I hope that the team is likewise frustrated and channels that feeling into Friday's game.
If curry is going to be held on the last play of the game Everytime we need to start using him as a decoy, our end of game execution is fucking horrible.
Yeah also why the fuck was Baze in bounding, he does a lot well but decision-making isn't one of his strengths
Would much rather have dray or jta inbounding, just horrible execution
Wasn't wiggins wide open?
Wide open, closest person was at the freethrow line not paying attention to him, instead bazemore throws it to curry running away from the basket with AD draped all over him
No doubt, the refereeing was imperfect and troublesome, but, folks, bonehead turnovers lost us that game.
I know it's soothing to think everything is under our control, but it's not actually true.
There are many things that lost us the game. Bad calls were absolutely a part of that picture.
Bad calls are part of it but the point is if you don't have those careless turnovers, you still win. So the game is under your control.
That's like saying you didn't you crash your car because I cut the brake lines... because you still had a steering wheel.
Honestly, I know it is fruitless to harp on the officiating, but we should get time to grieve. I can see from my comment history, I have complained a fair bit and I am close to moving on. But everyone has a different way to deal with that last night.
I don't think that's a fair analogy. We were already faltering with that horrible 3rd quarter. It's more like if I was already going to crash and you made it worse by cutting the breaks
Ok. How about... You were going to crash anyways because you like to drive reckless because, really, driving is super easy for you that you get bored at times, still I cut the brakes, but then I threw myself on your hood and rolled around on the street acting like I was being gored by bulls in Pamplona?
Whatever makes you feel better
I don't have this opinion for every game but in my opinion this loss isn't on the refs
Some of those botched calls in the 2nd half absolutely affected this game on top of the careless turnovers. They all played a part in last night's loss. We only accept bad calls as part of the game because it happens almost every single game but the truth is it DOES play a part in affecting the game's outcome. We're just used to it because humans aren't perfect and there will always be mistakes with officiating. With that being said a loss is a loss and we'll probably be on the good end of that stick some time soon
I'm not saying the bad calls didn't affect the game. Of course they did. But if they corrected the part they do have control over aka the sloppy play, they win the game.
Just realized I said opinion twice like that lol
I had a disagreement with a friend about baseball. I got tired of a small set of teams that load the dice with vastly superior payrolls. He said it didn't matter and other teams with small payrolls win too. I said that the issue is that they're loading the dice. It doesn't guarantee they will win, but it does give you more favorable odds.
The calls were like that. The Lakers had to play very well to win the game. That LeBron shot was absurd. Could we have won with fewer turnovers/better shooting/etc? Yes. But the dice were loaded. (Not saying it was intentional, just the calls gave the Lakers an advantage overall).
8 TOs in the third quarter, Dino... and they were still right in this one at the end against the defending champs
Just reverse that DUBY...WHAT IF THEY HAD 2 TOs, fak the refs, they win.
After having a night to digest the game, I feel torn. I was probably more upset last night than I ever have been after a game and I was not sure exactly why.
This morning I have a better idea. I think what I was feeling last night was calling into question my entire understanding of what NBA basketball is. Is it competition or is it entertainment? If it is entertainment, then fine last night can be tossed aside and we can come back next game emboldened to try harder. If it is competition, then there is a problem. In a competition you know the rules before the contest, both side agree and the officials are there to enforce those rules to the best of their ability, in a fair and balanced manner. Human error is what it is, so if we consider those calls "human error" then we have to call into question competency. If they were not human error and were deliberate, then we have a different problem. Now we call into question bias. If there was bias what was done if anything to correct it? Not much in my opinion. On the contrary there seemed to be an effort as one person mentioned to "gaslight" the viewer to believing what they were witnessing was a fair enforcement of the rules. This brings me to my third possibility that this is systemic. The networks buy rights to broadcast these games. They pay LOTS of money. They then hire a select few announcers to "narrate" to the viewer. JVG and Mark Jackson are the perfect people to make all sides feel they got screwed. Bill Walton was great at this. This is not just about creating tension but more about creating doubt. Create doubt in the mind of the offended viewer that what they just saw was not as egregious as they feel it is. Because the other side feels the same way. So it has to be fair, right? No, not always. The thumb on the scale only works when it is done in secret. When it is not so obvious that all sides agree it was unfair. That is where you need doubt.
LeBron is a great athlete that made a great shot at a ridiculously crunch moment. That is true. But that moment should not have existed on a fair and balanced playing field. I guess all I am saying is I am questioning why I ever allow myself to believe this is competition, why I allow myself to be subjected to voices telling me something is what I know it isn't. Watching Steph Curry play basketball is pure joy. It has come at a cost to myself and my family however. I am probably getting too deep and tomorrow I will be yelling at my screen like every other fanatic, but right now I feel like Truman has seen the light fall from the sky again. At some point I will have to believe it.
It is very important to remember that a foul occurs on every play, if we are going by the definitive rules. Therefore, NBA refereeing will always be subjective and imperfect, and rely on whatever areas of focus individual referees as well as teams of referees bring with them. When you keep this in mind, it's kind of a miracle that games are as problem-free as they are when it comes to officiating. Certainly problems need to be looked at and addressed, but this is some important context to consider, in my opinion.
I accept that there is human error in every game. When that human error seems very strongly to always favor one of the two teams in a contest, fans have a right to be mad. No one expects officiating to be perfect but there needs to be at least some consistency. If you're going to call ticky-tack fouls on one end and ignore blatant maulings on the other end, possession after possession, it's more than fair to question the quality and intent of the officiating crew.
What I find myself emphasizing mentally is that the Warriors turned the ball over too much. If they didn't cough up all those turnovers, it wouldn't have mattered that the refs sucked.
This was a very winnable game. Crazy shot from Bron, and a couple of badly missed calls at the end just makes the final minutes of the game feel more important. But to even be as close as it was, those turnovers were really to blame
Can't both things be true though? The Warriors turned the ball over too many times and put themselves in a bad position, but the refs also made a series of bad calls down the stretch of the most important minutes of the game that sealed the victory for LA. One truth does not preclude another. I can desire the Warriors to improve their ball protection while still seeing that they obviously got the short end of the stick from the officiating crew, play after play after play.
But that is simply human error. If every foul in every game was called it would be unwatchable. The assumption is that we are watching a balanced playing field and the calls will even out on both sides. Which they tend to do. But that does't mean it is fair. Timeouts are not just breaks for players to rest. They are also intended to disrupt flow, which in the game of basketball is critical. If Steph hits consecutive shots, a good coach will probably call a timeout. Not because his players are tired, but because he is disrupting the flow. When referees do this at specific times it can have a huge effect on the game. Sure they can even out the calls at a different point in the game, but does that then make it balanced? I can accept human error, but deliberate manipulation is something different.
The game wouldn't necessarily be unwatchable. Players grab, hold, and push because the refs let them. If the refs started calling players for these acts, then players would learn over time do them less.
They would need to do it at the start of the regular season to let players adapt to the game being called as it should be. The way it is reffed is a choice.
I'm glad our young guys got to have the experience of a high stakes game on arguably one of the brightest stages in basketball. Soak in that moment Jordan Poole, you'll be seeing a lot of those in the future
Marc Gasol made a mistake joining the Lakers. He could have played with the best shooters in the world but now he gets to sit on the bench and watch the best actor in the world.
Could have been a win-win. Oh well...
Yea, I was thinking that. A bunch of those ring-chasers are now nailed to the bench. Morris is another one. Even Harrell didn't get a lot of minutes. Maybe some might be available to us this offseason.
I think that's poetic justice. Let them sit and hope that the other guys win them a ring.
I'm sure Morris and Harrell doesn't mind getting the McCaw ring though
Harrell or Gasol would be incredible additions
Missing PMC so here's an article that has some Kerr and Curry quotes:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31475626/golden-state-warriors-frustrated-loss-confident-bounce-back-vs-grizzlies
we'll have something more on that soon, btw.
OKAY - got a good night’s sleep and I’m over it.
What a great game! I don’t care about the final score as much as I care about development. What this team showed us last night was confirmation of what we’ve been suspecting over the past two months, that this homegrown team doesn’t need a Durant or a Giannis to win another championship. They are showing a middle finger to everyone who thought they made a mistake in not trading one or two of the big three to somehow keep Durant (if that was even possible). For those who thought Kerr and the original big three would never recover from the loss of “crafty vets” like Iguodala, Livingston, West, Zaza, Barbosa... the last month has them swallowing their tongues. (Indeed, they managed to keep many in management and coaching!) The Warriors OG are demonstrating AGAIN their enormous talent as well as their ability to teach Warriors small ball.
After the first few games of the season, how could any Warriors fan be upset with what happened last night? Our guys stood toe to toe with the champs and reminded the world they are only one Klay Thompson away from another title.
> After the first few games of the season, how could any Warriors fan be upset with what happened last night? Our guys stood toe to toe with the champs and reminded the world they are only one Klay Thompson away from another title.
THIS.
Look, losing sucks, but for people (like me) that were pretty down after the DLo/Wiggins trades, this season has been a reaffirmation. Add Klay to this squad and we are right back in legit championship contention. Playoff Wiggins looked great, Poole is legit, and JTA was a factor in a meaningful playoff game. Things are fine. This game was in reach. I don't like the "should have won" angle, just going to stop myself at the "could have won" point.
That was a free shot at the Lakers. Now it's survival mode! I feel good about getting by the Grizz, and at least doing enough to scare the Jazz a little.
> this season has been a reaffirmation
I'm upset because Curry and Draymond shouldn't have had to reaffirm themselves to the organization, and the organization shouldn't have done the bare minimum to support them this season. This team could have easily been in the top 6 if they signed a starting center, and imo could have won this game if they had a deeper rotation over the past few months instead of 2 empty rosters spots.
The FO did way more than the bare minimum. Hard to even have a discussion with that as your starting point.
It's funny- these Lakers seem built to beat the Dubs, and yet I can't help but see us running circles around them when Klay is back. The league is going to be reminded of what the Warriors at full strength mean, and it's going to be a rude awakening for them and a breath of fresh air for us.
They do have the best defense in the league. I don't like losing to the Lakers but they do deserve some credit. It's almost a miracle we made it this far.
And quite frankly, their size advantage would only be magnified over a long series. And their stars weren't at 100%. Warriors aren't going to be able to run it back with Klay and beat the Lakers, especially not if Wiseman is their starting center come playoff time. They could definitely beat the Lakers if they make some win now moves though imo.
Once AD decided to go into the post it was curtains. It's a tough solution because even with Wiseman and Chriss back, Dray/Looney is still going to be our most favorable matchup against these guys.
Probably won't matter a whole lot next year because I doubt the Lakers bring back Drummond AND Gasol
We lost on a very lucky 34 foot bomb. Score was tied and we would have had a great chance to win. That's not accounting for getting shafted by a bunch of bad calls.
So no, it wasn't "curtains". It did turn the tide for the Lakers though. AD is pretty pretty good.
They won't bring back Drummond but Gasol is on a 2 year contract. Ideally they'd trade him to the Warriors but I kinda doubt they'd make a deal with a team they would deem as competition. They'll definitely find someone better than Drummond in free agency though.
Whatever size advantage they had last night wasn't really fully realized, and remember that mismatches go both ways. The difference we get from adding Klay, one of the best shooters of all-time, an incredible off-ball mover, and a great defender, is bigger than any advantage the Lakers get from a longer series and better health.
The size advantage would be magnified over a long series though, not a single game elimination play-in (which is more advantageous for the smaller team). Look at their bubble series against the Rockets and Heat in the bubble, two teams who were smaller than them inside. Both of them looked like they just wanted to quit by the end of that series, the Lakers bullied them both.
I don't think we can count on Klay to be a great defender post-Achilles surgery, which is one of the reasons I think it's crucial they retain Oubre (and also why they would need a defensive upgrade at the center position to compensate). But even if Klay is still "that guy" defensively after his injury, the Warriors aren't competing with the Lakers if Wiseman is factoring into the rotation. He's way too young and inexperienced, can you imagine how out of place he would have looked in that game last night? The Warriors have the pieces to construct a team that can win the championship next season, but just running this group back with Klay isn't going to get it done imo.
Running back this team with Klay would beat most of these other fraudulent Western Conference teams though for sure. Quite frankly I think the Warriors can beat any of these teams except the Lakers and Clippers right now. Gotta get there first though.
Agree. When the Lakers kept adding star level talent in the off-season, they seemed invincible. But last night showed you can only play five at a time - and how a player fits is more important than raw talent. As a team, the Warriors fit better together than the Lakers with their four centers. (Though, if offered, I’d take one off of them to help Loon and Dray out 15 mins per game.)
Maybe JW will add 15kgs of muscle in the offseason and be back to claim that center spot? Whaddya think? lol
LEGS
Wiseman needs massive lower body strength training. He's still young, so it's fine, but I hope he is prioritizing whatever he can do about solidifying his base while recovering from knee surgery.
He will need to learn some of what what Loon and Dray know. And Chriss will take some minutes too. But, yes, my hope is JW will play increasing minutes next year.
By the way, there should be no question of WHO the NBA's MVP is, regardless of whether or not the MEDIA/NBA ROB HIM OF ANOTHER ACCOLADE...
Alas, the MVP race is over, according to the spreadsheet posted here a couple days ago that complied the announced choices of voters. It’s Jokic by a mile, followed by Embiid, Curry, Giannis, and CP3. IIRC, Embiid and Steph were pretty close, so it wouldn’t shock me to Steph rise to #2, given all the buzz he got towards the end of the season. But at last count Jokic was close to unanimous.
Whether Jokic deserves it is another question ... I’d vote Steph, but think Jokic is a perfectly worthy choice.
...
On a related note, it still weirds me out that the stats from last night’s game (and tomorrow’s) count neither towards regular season stats/awards nor towards playoff stats. So basically last night’s game didn’t happen?
They're probably confused, but I hope they'll settle this eventually. I'd vote for counting them as playoffs -- not that they've called yet to ask. But I'm sitting by the phone...
Basketball-reference apparently treats them as playoff stats, FWIW
I don't think so. I checked and can't find any.
if you look up the game it lists it as a playoff game. someone pointed this out in an earlier thread with a historic example.
couldn't find it.
Lol. Amazing, I almost asked the question in here two days ago, how will the stats for play-ins be handled. Leave it to you, Sleepy, to read my mind and answer the question. Thanks.
Just needed that 3rd scorer this game.
Curry and Wiggins did their thing, Bazemore looked good that 1st quarter and Poole had some big shots, but not the couple that really mattered at the very end of the game. Draymond got stuffed everytime he tried going to the rim...
I wish Baze got Mulder’s second half minutes
or JTA
I'd have gone with JTA. He's reliable and good things happen when he's on the floor. I love Baze, but he is truly the god of chaos...
This was the only move I question from Kerr in that game. In theory he wanted more shooting on the floor because that Laker defense was suffocating but in practice I trust JTA to hit the shot more than Mulder lol.
Mulder is shooting a similar percentage, at a far higher frequency, while actually being guarded (teams are leaving JTA open to shoot threes). I definitely trust Mulder to hit those shots more than JTA.
I'll trust your stats, but my intuition says that JTA compensates by bringing way better defense and better playmaking. I'd have been good with that.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/warriors-hurt-questionable-bad-calls-late-loss-vs-lakers
The King is still the King. Lebron can never be underestimated. We played with heart but luck also has some contribution. Let's face it, Steph and Dray were very sloppy and substract 2 of those TO's and it would have been a different story. Ah well, we are powerless to change outcomes.
What doesn't bode well for me was watching Memphis take SA apart down the stretch. I fear our game with them could end our run if we have a repeat of this sloppiness. Add Klay to this game and we would be #7 ready and willing to dismantle Phoenix.
King my ass, just a drama queen, but maybe it's not his fault, it's his sports drugs that keep him playing at this level and that's why he has his hormonal changes
Don't be a sore loser.
Don’t praise Queen Lebron here
How about not insulting someone with language that projects women or gay men as bad?
So childish.
Well, you are obviously spot-on...20 turnovers does not win play-in and playoff games...
Also... LeBron is a fantastic basketball player who is the “King” of being an Epic Drama Queen and a whiny little ref-lobbying b****.
At age 36, he’s not as good at basketball as Steph, or nearly as good at letting his basketball skills do the talking instead of his whining skills.
Yuup. He was destined to play for LA. As Demarcus Cousins said once, "That's where the actors be."
The man legitimately got poked in the eye, but I have no doubt that he sold it (though the refs didn't buy it). With that being said, Draymond literally spends half his time on the court arguing with the refs/complaining/lobbying.
Lobbying refs exists in the same realm as flopping/baiting fouls . . . I hate its existence but recognize that they can help toward winning.
No words at all about the LAkers complaining to the refs after every call in the 2nd half? How come Dray is the only one that gets flak for this? I am rewatching the game right now and Lebron and Co. are complaining to the refs almost. every. single. play.
They can also get someone kicked out of the game. I was really wishing some of Dray's teammates would drag him away from the refs. Chirping like that after already having one tech is playing with fire. And given that they're playing on the road, with an officiating crew that was already not calling it all that evenly.... I was cringing the whole time he was complaining to the refs.
James can also get someone kicked out of a game with his machiavellia
Add Klay to this team and we’d be #1-3.
I agree, some of these people saying we could add Klay and not be in championship contention are dramatically underestimating this team. We'd already be 5/6 seed if Steph hadn't been injured, with Klay on the team we'd be far better.
It’s been a few hours, so we’ve all
had sometime to relax, unwind, come to terms with the loss and think about Memphis....
BUT FOR F$&K SAKE THAT WAS F&$KING RIGGED!!!
HOW THE HELL CAN THE REFS BE SO BLATANT!!!
WHY IS AD SO SOFT??! WHY DOES HE THINK HE IS BATMAN??! HE ISNT EVEN ROBIN. OR IF HE IS , HE IS LIKE AN AWKWARD MIDDLE AGED CHRIS O’DONNELL ROBIN WHO CANT DO COOL SHIT!
Anyway shouting over...now I’m going to watch the Lakers v Sacramento 2002 WCF to make me realise we weren’t shafted as much as that.
Its always hilarious to me that every team's fans always think they got shafted by the refs after a loss. Sometimes they actually have, but the vast majority of the time they're just coping. As for this game, I have no idea if we actually were screwed over, I'd have to rewatch.
"Sometimes they actually have" Yep, like this time.
AD looked like someone who’s been dealing with back spasms.
Signed,
Someone who deals with back spasms
Someone else watched part of the Memphis Teddybears’ game? What do you think? Anything else to do apart boxing out the Viking or get six fouls in three minutes for Brooks?
I was drunk or on an airplane for most of this game so take what I'll say with a grain for a salt but I was entirely happy with the supporting cast. Steph and dray had several crucial turnovers and dumb possessions which gave the lakers an advantage. The rest of the team performed admirably. Aside from that one stupid play where Wiggins dropped the ball on a wide open dunk, he did amazing!!
That Wiggins bobble was so frustrating.
Wiggins scored well and single covered LeBron well so I'm not saying he played poorly but 3 rebounds in a game like that is inexcusable imo. Lakers had 13 offensive rebounds, some of those needed to be Wiggins' defensive rebounds.
*flashing back to JTA boxing Anthony Davis out and shoving him way out of position
It's a full team effort. Mulder played way too many critical second half minutes
I'm going to add to this. Let me preface this with just because I'm being critical doesn't mean I'm wrong...
Draymond can't have 2 points. As effective as he is in the game, you can't have 2 points. He did AMAZING on defense for sure but 8 assists and 6 turnovers..? Nah that ain't it.
Draymond having 2 points is what happens when you have AD (whose nearly as good a defensive player as Dray) guarding him. I'm fine with that, its understandable. What's NOT understandable is the 6 turnovers . . . we need Dray/Steph to be the primary decision makers allowing for our offense to hum, and when they turn the ball over like that we compromise our defense.
What if, and I'm just spitballing here, preventing another team from scoring a basket was worth as much as scoring a basket?
I mean ... you are wrong: you can, in fact, have two points. Draymond just did. :-(
If you mean it would have been nice for him to score more and commit fewer turnovers ... sure. Pretty sure that’s an uncontroversial enough premise that you don’t need to preface it with “just so you know, the thing I’m about to say is right”? ;-P
Let me also add this, as critical as I've been on Steph, he still proved he's the best player in the world. It's just that with a little less turnovers he would have had the win along with it
As long as you're at it, I'd like a pony.
Man, I was so ready to be happy they played a half decent game against the Lakers and lost by ten or so. But this was not that. This was a great game they played.
To the people saying Steph and Dray gave the ball away with turnovers. Look at those plays. Guys are getting stepped into and grabbed all over the court with no calls, all to take away their freedom of movement. When a Laker gets hit with a hard screen, the Warriors are called for an offensive foul, which is itself a turnover. Not every turnover is a lazy pass, and any pass can look like a lazy pass when the cutter you're passing to gets physically stopped on their way to the ball.
And of course, a terrible calls on charges also adds turnovers.