Not sure if this is a serious suggestion or not (would they actually want JMG and a retiring Iggy?) but I couldn't do that to Klay. If he leaves of his own accord, fine, but I couldn't ship him off even for Bron (and the lock on Bronny in a year or three).
Which is yet another reason I would be a terrible GM.
It was meant as a joke, as the Lakers had stocked up on the geriatric front recently, but Klay's dad still calls games for the them, I believe, so it's not totally outlandish. Similar to sending Steph to Charlotte, hypothetically, as one of the few places he might actually want to play.
I think either Klay or Steph would have to go in a trade for LeBron, due to salary-matching.
Had to share this comment from the Athletic - on an article about the Jazz.
“I'd like to know how is it the Jazz can't beat a team missing three starters, playing 2 2-ways 25.33 and 29.41 minutes, and 2 de facto rookies playing 7.20 and 12.31 minutes. Lack of scoring? Poor defense? Inadequate coaching? All of the above?”
Bwahaha! It’s the Dubs at home bro. You got owned.
It’s interesting, the original injury report that I saw for Draymond being questionable yesterday was “right foot soreness”. But Jerome mentioned twice in his interview that Draymond was playing through a bad back. Has anybody heard any details on his back? Really hoping it’s not related to his injury last year.
If we get comfortably in the playoff mix (say 3-4), I'm guessing they'll start resting him more. And for sure, he'll be on a rest program the last 2-3 weeks of the season to have him at peak in the playoffs.
I listened to the presser, and I think his discussion of why they aren’t winning on the road is the least interesting/important part of the interview. Basically his no home crowd comments were IMHO fairly generic press friendly blather.
Instead I was really impressed by how he broke down the game. Instead of platitudes, he discussed specific actions and plays in the game. Highlighting Moody and Wiseman with details of their good work, and a long discussion of how Draymond improves the entire team defense, again with details. He scores points with the emotional leader of the team (Dray). And he pumps up his second team homies. But it’s not just fluffery of his buddies. It’s thoughtful on point analysis. Post game demonstration of BBIQ.
I had to look up his career - 3 years at Virginia ending with a national title. The last two years as starting PG. Ty is a Dubs rarity - a college trained athlete who clearly has taken to the more analytical side of the game. Makes me like him even more and understand better why he plays the way he does. In game he doesn’t always make perfect choices, and his skills and tools are not amazing. But he’s a solid player. I’m not sure he could really be the backup PG to Steph (I.e. next year’s DDV) but maybe. Regardless I’m rooting for the guy.
I’ve been noodling on this supposition for the last few days and think it might be a good off-day topic, so share your thoughts. Agree or disagree:
From an unbiased perspective, the Warriors have both the best 25+ core AND under-25 core in the NBA
Let’s start with the 25+ core since that’s easy: Steph, Wiggins, Klay, Draymond and Looney are the statistically the best 5-man rotation in the game and have 16 rings between them, so it seems pretty much “case closed” I can’t come close to thinking of another team’s group of five 25+ Players I’d swap them out for. As a bonus, if you’re uncomfortable with Klay’s uneven play, you could swap in DDV and still have the best 5-man group in the NBA (IMO). Nets have too many head cases, Boston wouldn’t include Tatum (24). Giannis, Middleton, Lopez, Holiday and Portis is the best group I can come up with, but I’d say they’re a distant 2nd. Denver would be a contender, but MPJ (like Tatum) is too young to include. I don’t trust Kawhi’s health so they’re off the table for me.
The under-25 group is a tough call because they haven’t played much, so you have to rely more on recent performance and project what you think they’ll be, but Poole, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman and PBJ is looking pretty sweet and seems like a 5-man group that could fit together for years and years with a healthy mix of shooting, playmaking and defense, athleticism and length that I’d be reluctant to trade for any other team’s group. Memphis has been held up as the elite young core and have played more, but would you really give up the Warriors young core for Morant, Bane, JJJ, Ziare and Aldama? I think OKC is more intriguing with SGA, Giddey, Dort, Jalen Williams and Chet. Detroit is also intriguing with Cade, Ivey, Stewart, Hayes and Bey, but they have a long way to go as well. Am I missing a young core that should be considered?
Bottom line: I think that the Warriors have the best roster, but you can split them into old guys and young guys and both groups are at the top. And it’s made even more fun by the fact that 9 of the 10 guys were drafted by the team. Myers and his team are pretty good at this roster-building shit.
Teams ranked above them: Rockets, Pacers, Hawks, Hornets, Knicks, TWolves, Raptors, Celtics, Pistons, OKC, Pels, Magic, with the top 3 going to Mavs, Cavs, and Grizzlies.
Myself, I would definitely rank Cavs, Magic, and maybe OKC young cores above ours.
Some of those teamster being carried by an under 25 star (Hawks, TWolves, etc.). But the Pacers for sure have a promising young core, I'd forgotten about them.
I like what you've done here. My only point of major disagreement is that Memphis' under-25 group is better, at least for now. They aren't trading their guys for our guys, but if they were available, I'm thinking Bob is all over that one.
Would you really give up the Warriors young core for Morant, Bane, JJJ, Ziare and Aldama?
Uh, yes? Do you really think our young 5 with a couple role players could be a 2-seed on their own right now? I'm quite high on JP3 and I've seen enough flashes from Kuminga and Moody to be optimistic, but I would trade any 2 young Warriors for Bane right now. Let alone Morant.
While, individually, your dubs <25 lineup looks like it has a ton of potential, all of them now benefit (need) the motion on offense and coordination on defense the older core provides. So, they will be able to sub in 1,2,3 at at time, but all together still a bit of a mess. DDV, and to some extent, Jerome, would help. But, Kerr ball is team ball and I haven’t seen next level team play from the youngsters yet.
Last night was a step in the right direction for timeline 2 but, especially after the start of the season, I’m thinking it’s too soon to award accolades. Poole is the current star of the bunch but I’m still waiting for him to mature into the smart player that could make him an all star.
I don’t agree with your under 25 statement. Several poor teams have gotten a number of excellent, first round draftees who are already playing better than the GSW 5. And one is about to hit the jackpot with Wembayamamanama. One differential might be coaching, as GSW rookies have both a large staff and some excellent player coaches.
They key is “under 25” so Ingram’s too old. This wasn’t an arbitrary age I picked; I’ve seen this as the cut off for these types of things. The Ringer uses it for their big rankings.
Banchero has superstar potential so unless you think Kuminga, Poole, PBJ, or Wiseman has that level of upside, that one guy alone could be worth the deal in the long run. It's similar with Memphis and Morant.
I think Kuminga and Poole have superstar potential (JK because duh and Poole because he gives me Jimmy B vibes from what people on the team have said, and Butler basically worked himself into a star), but yeah if offered Morant straight up for our 25s I'd do it with minimal thought.
Kuminga maybe. Wiseman even, though he has far to go. But Poole... I dunno. I think he's going to be really good but I don't get superstar vibes. For one thing he plays shit defense but even that aside, I just don't quite feel it with him. Morant and Banchero give me those "I'm looking at a future HOFer" shivers. That said, Butler is an interesting comparison (albeit different positions). It took him a few years to become Jimmy Freakin' Butler. So... maybe.
Yeah, I wouldn't bet on him. He doesn't currently have the game-breaking mix of stuff you can sense in Morant and Banchero. But I was watching the Bulls during those early Butler years, and what struck me was Jimmy B's intensity and work ethic. So that's kinda informed my feelings about Poole to a large extent
I’m talking to my therapist about my sullen rosterbation problem. Thought I had it under control, but just can’t stop thinking about TyJo and Lamb. They need to be on the team, upgraded from their 2-way spots for the playoffs. We have room for 1. That means somebody has to go.
Andre: No way he gets cut unless he’s actually too injured to play this year.
Rollins: On a 3 year deal (2 guaranteed) and the Dubs really don’t want dead money on the roster. Could he possibly be traded for, say, a 2024 2nd rounder? Or even just a little cash? He seems like the man on the team with the lowest value to the Dubs right now, and likely next year too.
JMG: Easiest cut, but doesn’t happen unless JW continues to improve, and, possibly, JMG doesn’t. This is my hoped for scenario. But really, what is the opponent configuration that means JMG is a better option than some combo of Lamb/Wiseman/Kuminga????
With Steph coming back I don't think there'll be minutes for Jerome this year in the stretch run. DDV, Poole and eventually Andre off the bench will be plenty for ball handling duties. I'm guessing we'll keep JMG and give Lamb the nod. Both will definitely be on the active roster next year though.
As much as I love me some Mr Fate of the Universe, I'm taking TJ who's been playing in the system, getting reps, growing kahuna's, and ballin out over Cryogenic Andre for the fate of the '23 🏆
Well now this is a hard one. Andre obviously has so much more upside. But we have absolutely no clue how injured or washed he is. Total lack of information make this an impossible decision. Hopefully Andre will get some run before the timer on TyJo expires.
Man, SF chronicle put out an article saying Poole needs to be a starter. It’s getting to be quite the tally of guys who need to play with the starters to succeed.
Perhaps the first 30 seconds of the game should be Poole, DDV, MOOdy, Kuminga, & Wiseman so that when they come back in they will be playing with the starters. Feel free to add any other names that play better with the starters.
NCAA champion Ty Jerome just basically said the team is too selfish to win on the road, and that the fans are carrying the team at home. Kudos to those of you able to go to the games for getting a shout out!
Maybe Warriors fans need to do better at filling opposing team’s arenas?
Starting to get the feeling that Ty is a bad bad man who might be able to contribute to wins anywhichway, including coming off the bench.
Yeah, I’m on the Tyco Train. I think he’s a long-term answer to bench PG, especially if there’s no chance of keeping DDV, but I still think there’s a chance. (Insert Dumb and Dumber meme)
Every time I bring it up, Beli tries to turn my Hope into despair.
The argument is that, barring injury, there’s no way he doesn’t opt out for big bucks elsewhere. My admittedly-slim hope is that he loves it here, opts in for next year and then the Warriors give him a bag he following season after Klay’s big money comes off the books. Curry, Poole and DDV would be such a good PG/SG rotation and any two fit well together.
Jerome's point in the postgame: "We have to come together better." Meaning: the reason the team wins far fewer on the road is that at home each player has the crowd urging them on and supporting them. On the road a player only has his teammates, so they have to be extra supportive. And according to Jerome, this has been a weak area. Hm.
Listening to Jerome, he’s clearly saying “Steph is getting old and I’m the future of the team. Not only should I be starting, but management can save a lot by only putting three players on the court at a time. 3 v 5 would give us awesome spacing.”
I believe he's talking about players and coaches gaining better understanding of what skills each player brings, and trusting them to exhibit those in the context of the system, offensive or defensive. He's talking about learning through experience and that will come. [I also think he's saying, "early in the season, you didn't know how good I was, and I didn't see the floor; but now you are beginning to see I should play more."]
What I don't think he's saying is, "we don't get along well as individuals and that has harmed our team when on the road," which (pardon my straw man) I think is what you imply.
I always hear that team bonding comes with long road trips. Dubs have had 2. Hopefully they finally put it all together through gritty home wins. Hmm...
LOL. Yes, but a good point guard always knows to not throw it to the guy who is going to fumble the pass or miss the shot. No doubt he is reflecting on his ability to trust JW more, now that JW has refined his game in the G-League.
Not really OT since it's about a Jazz player: I’ve been thinking about how the Bulls dealt Markkanen to CLE last year in a three-way deal with POR. The Bulls got Derrick Thomas Jr. (not worth much) plus the Blazers’ 2022 conditional 1st round pick (which did not convey, was #7, Blazers took Shaedon Sharpe), plus the Cavs’ 2023 conditional 2nd rounder (which they got from Denver and will likely be a late pick so not worth all that much).
I’m not sure what they get instead of the protected POR 1st rounder that didn’t convey — maybe they get the Blazers’ 2023 1st? They better get something good or that’s a terrible trade for Chicago.
Take advantage of teams with new management who are trying to reshape the team in the image they want? Figures Ainge is involved even as part of new management. Looks like the Nets might have done that too, now that Curry is getting healthy and the wins are flowing in.
True but I considered that a lack of vision and patience. At the time I was surprised they dealt him so cheaply. He was shooting 40% from 3 his last year in CHI, hitting his FTs (82.6%), just age 23. I don't think he was being used well.
now, it would be easy to walk down the dangerous What If? path & think about whether the Warriors could have swapped picks with Chicago in 2020 & picked up Lauri in the deal…
One knowledgeable Bulls fan I know thought Lauri was complete garbage and was happy to trade him for even nothing. Amazing how much a good role and a change of scenery can do
Billy Donovan hasn't seemed to take hold in the pros so far, it seems. Not saying he's a bad NBA coach because I don't really know that but so far, not so good.
Below average for an NBA coach imo. KD had him for a year, and then walked away. Essentially no different than Scott Brooks & probably a bit worse. He might be a good college coach but not in the pros.
He was head coach for the 2015-16 thunder iirc. Since then he's had Westbrook teams until 2020, and then had Lavine + friends teams. He likely not the worst coach in the NBA and those are some rough places to try and lead, but what value-add did he give either org?
It seems to me Jerome benefits from playing a lot of minutes with JW. He manages to have more room when driving to the hoop than other guards and I wonder if the defending trees don’t collapse on him like they do on Poole because they are wary of the lob to a lurking JW.
I can imagine a day (soon?)when JW is less a defensive liability, plays more minutes, and a more mature Poole uses JW to give him more space. JP’s lightening quickness and crafty selection of shots could make him very difficult to stop. I’ll bet JK’s inside game will improve with more JW lurking as well. (Someday. For now, Looney is clearly the better player.)
Watching tonight it seemed to me that JW is getting a better idea of when to slide out of the paint on offense, while watching for an opening to sweep back in. That leaves more room for drivers/cutters. He didn't do that before his games in SC; he clogged the paint. That's one reason for concern about his fit with Kuminga. It's not all worked out yet but he's starting to figure it out.
They're learning to play off each other. It's a matter of one of them timing their cut to trail the help defender so they're open after the help commits. There were 2-3 passes between the two in the paint this game. There will be many more.
I like Rollins!! He’s averaging 26 per 36 on 60 TS% and 37% from deep while also dishing 5 assists per 36 in the G League while also displaying defensive grit!!
It’s a guards world down in santa cruz. When are Ty and Lamb going to actually play there? They have to be running out of games well before season’s end at this rate.
Give Lamb the open roster spot. I still think JMG was putting it together before going out, so don’t think Lamb will be that important with Wiggins, Andre and JaMychal on the team.
I’d give the open roster spot to Jerome, as our 4th guard. I’m hopeful that JK and Moody continue to step into the 3/4 roles that Lamb plays.
I like PBJ and wouldn’t trade him, effectively for Lamb. PBJ has a very specific role as a stretch 4/5 laid out in his future and he won’t be called upon for rotation minutes for 2 years. Key here is we have 4 years at a very reasonable salary to develop him.
Rollins is a different calculous. Question is will he be ready to be a 4th guard next year? If not, then we don’t have enough runway to develop him and I’d consider trading him for a future 2d and opening up the spot for Lamb.
I agree that it's not happening. But I kind of wish Andre would decide that his best way to help the team is to retire. He could stay on to mentor the younger players and encourage the veteran core, while freeing up a roster spot.
Remember how optimistic we were before the season started about our bench squad? Then everything went to crap. But now they are living up to it, and it is glorious! May it continue!
When he calmly smiled and did the 'my bad' after making the outlet pass that led Jerome to far and resulted in a turnover, I got the feeling that he would absolutely lock down the rest of the game. It also helps when the refs aren't making bad calls against him.
There's something else: No matter what any of us have remarked, Draymond is still very much one of the most important leaders of the team, probably second only to Steph. At one point tonight he was coming out of the game, and on his way to his seat, he — not a coach — was calling out to the guys on the court what their defensive assignments were. He's the Man on defense. And he is referred to as a crucial leader in player interview after player interview.
This is one of the main reasons I suspect their early season woes definitely were impacted by the Punch and Draymond's inability to lead effectively over the first 25 games or so.
Maybe that's part of it. But I think the youth and inexperience of the bench mob and lack of playing time together had more to do with that. We are seeing the kids develop game by game. JW was a mess at the start of the season; now he is improving on all fronts. JK has risen to another level. We weren't sure PBJ could even play NBA ball. And Jerome, Lamb, and DDV were new to us two months ago. DDV got here at almost the last minute before the season, then got hurt. It takes time to develop chemistry, as you know.
I agree with you about the young guys needing time to develop, but I also think Dray's leadership could have made a difference there. Exhibit A would be the turnaround when he began directing the second string. Yes, they needed game time to learn to play together. But they also needed someone to help them get into their places, to get them to play at an advantageous pace, and to help them learn how to play at this level. Dray was all of that and more once he began to be able to lead overtly again.
Agreed. DDV looked pretty scattered to start the season, playing with energy but getting lackluster results. Now that he gets when and where to be in the current Warriors system, he's contributing a lot more.
Wiseman was still looking like a mess pretty recently, but it feels like something clicked in Santa Cruz or against one of the New York teams, because his positional play since coming back from the road trip has been hugely improved. I think the G-league did him a lot of good, but he's probably still going to be inconsistent this year.
The way I see it, the punch was a serious lowlight in Draymond's career; it was very dangerous, and it showed an embarrassing lack of maturity and self-control from someone who's in a position where he should really know better. It's a black mark that will stick with him forever as the proof that despite everyone's hopes, he hadn't changed for the better then, so it will be even harder to trust in the future that he has.
But ultimately, it was a dumb mistake, an out of control moment, and he recognized quickly that it was. The things he said afterward were, for the most part, the right things to mend the relationship and get on with doing his job. It would be naive to assume that he "learned his lesson" from this and won't make a similar mistake again, but we can still hope he did take away something he can use positively from it. Time will tell.
He was lucky he didn't injure Poole; that makes it certainly easier to forgive. Between his apology and his behavior since, I'm still willing to accept him as a valuable part of the team. Certainly he wasn't the first and won't be the last incredible athlete to have deep character flaws.
Humans are imperfect and forgiveness is a complicated thing. But I think it's fine to respect the skills, the work, and the actions of someone in one area even if you have reservations or criticisms of them in another.
E1P article up now https://dubnationhq.com/p/explain-one-play-warriors-rookie-3ef?sd=pf
https://twitter.com/LakersDailyCom/status/1608306924184895488
So where is he hopping to this time. God. I'm glad Steph doesn't have that coward trait in him.
Any team that he goes to is going to be gutted to get him. Different team, same BS.
The Warriors might be able to put together the most enticing package with just the type of players the Lakers have been targeting:
JMG, Iguodala, and Klay for Bron and JTA, who says no?
Not sure if this is a serious suggestion or not (would they actually want JMG and a retiring Iggy?) but I couldn't do that to Klay. If he leaves of his own accord, fine, but I couldn't ship him off even for Bron (and the lock on Bronny in a year or three).
Which is yet another reason I would be a terrible GM.
It was meant as a joke, as the Lakers had stocked up on the geriatric front recently, but Klay's dad still calls games for the them, I believe, so it's not totally outlandish. Similar to sending Steph to Charlotte, hypothetically, as one of the few places he might actually want to play.
I think either Klay or Steph would have to go in a trade for LeBron, due to salary-matching.
It’s not “coward” tho, it’s impatience.
And as to “where”, I’ll say Phoenix.
Running from his mess. Coward.
Had to share this comment from the Athletic - on an article about the Jazz.
“I'd like to know how is it the Jazz can't beat a team missing three starters, playing 2 2-ways 25.33 and 29.41 minutes, and 2 de facto rookies playing 7.20 and 12.31 minutes. Lack of scoring? Poor defense? Inadequate coaching? All of the above?”
Bwahaha! It’s the Dubs at home bro. You got owned.
It’s interesting, the original injury report that I saw for Draymond being questionable yesterday was “right foot soreness”. But Jerome mentioned twice in his interview that Draymond was playing through a bad back. Has anybody heard any details on his back? Really hoping it’s not related to his injury last year.
Jerome interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzsXQ4rJhU
Draymond questionable due to foot: https://mobile.twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/1608214482903498752?cxt=HHwWgIDQgaajw9EsAAAA
His back must hurt from carrying the team on it without the other all-stars
I bet he’s dealing with a bad back… but without Steph and in this part of this season, Dray is heroing up. Really hope he doesn’t really hurt himself…
Darn disk issues are never fully gone
‘Bad backs’ don’t go away. I have been worried about how much they played him this fall.
Here's hoping he gets to ease off the gas once Steph and Andrew get back
I wish he were sitting out like Klay.
If we get comfortably in the playoff mix (say 3-4), I'm guessing they'll start resting him more. And for sure, he'll be on a rest program the last 2-3 weeks of the season to have him at peak in the playoffs.
Last year his back went out long before that.
Ty Jerome, part two.
I listened to the presser, and I think his discussion of why they aren’t winning on the road is the least interesting/important part of the interview. Basically his no home crowd comments were IMHO fairly generic press friendly blather.
Instead I was really impressed by how he broke down the game. Instead of platitudes, he discussed specific actions and plays in the game. Highlighting Moody and Wiseman with details of their good work, and a long discussion of how Draymond improves the entire team defense, again with details. He scores points with the emotional leader of the team (Dray). And he pumps up his second team homies. But it’s not just fluffery of his buddies. It’s thoughtful on point analysis. Post game demonstration of BBIQ.
I had to look up his career - 3 years at Virginia ending with a national title. The last two years as starting PG. Ty is a Dubs rarity - a college trained athlete who clearly has taken to the more analytical side of the game. Makes me like him even more and understand better why he plays the way he does. In game he doesn’t always make perfect choices, and his skills and tools are not amazing. But he’s a solid player. I’m not sure he could really be the backup PG to Steph (I.e. next year’s DDV) but maybe. Regardless I’m rooting for the guy.
Dray better hope he's not jonesing to get into the podcast space...
He sounded like a coach.
Ty Lieu
I’ve been noodling on this supposition for the last few days and think it might be a good off-day topic, so share your thoughts. Agree or disagree:
From an unbiased perspective, the Warriors have both the best 25+ core AND under-25 core in the NBA
Let’s start with the 25+ core since that’s easy: Steph, Wiggins, Klay, Draymond and Looney are the statistically the best 5-man rotation in the game and have 16 rings between them, so it seems pretty much “case closed” I can’t come close to thinking of another team’s group of five 25+ Players I’d swap them out for. As a bonus, if you’re uncomfortable with Klay’s uneven play, you could swap in DDV and still have the best 5-man group in the NBA (IMO). Nets have too many head cases, Boston wouldn’t include Tatum (24). Giannis, Middleton, Lopez, Holiday and Portis is the best group I can come up with, but I’d say they’re a distant 2nd. Denver would be a contender, but MPJ (like Tatum) is too young to include. I don’t trust Kawhi’s health so they’re off the table for me.
The under-25 group is a tough call because they haven’t played much, so you have to rely more on recent performance and project what you think they’ll be, but Poole, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman and PBJ is looking pretty sweet and seems like a 5-man group that could fit together for years and years with a healthy mix of shooting, playmaking and defense, athleticism and length that I’d be reluctant to trade for any other team’s group. Memphis has been held up as the elite young core and have played more, but would you really give up the Warriors young core for Morant, Bane, JJJ, Ziare and Aldama? I think OKC is more intriguing with SGA, Giddey, Dort, Jalen Williams and Chet. Detroit is also intriguing with Cade, Ivey, Stewart, Hayes and Bey, but they have a long way to go as well. Am I missing a young core that should be considered?
Bottom line: I think that the Warriors have the best roster, but you can split them into old guys and young guys and both groups are at the top. And it’s made even more fun by the fact that 9 of the 10 guys were drafted by the team. Myers and his team are pretty good at this roster-building shit.
Up until the last three games people (around here I think) were not very pumped on our under 25s (except for JK)
The Ringer had a 'Young Core" ranking at the start of the season, and the Warriors were only 16th out of 30: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/10/13/23401647/nba-young-core-rankings-2022-23
Teams ranked above them: Rockets, Pacers, Hawks, Hornets, Knicks, TWolves, Raptors, Celtics, Pistons, OKC, Pels, Magic, with the top 3 going to Mavs, Cavs, and Grizzlies.
Myself, I would definitely rank Cavs, Magic, and maybe OKC young cores above ours.
Some of those teamster being carried by an under 25 star (Hawks, TWolves, etc.). But the Pacers for sure have a promising young core, I'd forgotten about them.
I like what you've done here. My only point of major disagreement is that Memphis' under-25 group is better, at least for now. They aren't trading their guys for our guys, but if they were available, I'm thinking Bob is all over that one.
How about, for the sake of argument, the Dallas young core - they've got Luka plus 4 guys under 25 who I've never heard of, but ... Luka!
Also “whoever gets the #1 pick this year” will overtake us in the offseason as well, lol
Another no brainer. Add Luka to the Dubs … similar to adding Durant. That worked out pretty well.
Would you really give up the Warriors young core for Morant, Bane, JJJ, Ziare and Aldama?
Uh, yes? Do you really think our young 5 with a couple role players could be a 2-seed on their own right now? I'm quite high on JP3 and I've seen enough flashes from Kuminga and Moody to be optimistic, but I would trade any 2 young Warriors for Bane right now. Let alone Morant.
In a frigging heartbeat.
Morant, Bane, JJJ are all allstar level players when healthy. Morant is all-NBA.
If that was our bench, we'd be better than the 2017 team by a country mile.
Agreed. Swapping our B team for the Memphis starters tonight! Let’s goooo! The rest of the NBA would just quit in disgust!
And we'd somehow manage to do that without acquiring Dillon Brooks.
Memphis’ core is better. Without question.
While, individually, your dubs <25 lineup looks like it has a ton of potential, all of them now benefit (need) the motion on offense and coordination on defense the older core provides. So, they will be able to sub in 1,2,3 at at time, but all together still a bit of a mess. DDV, and to some extent, Jerome, would help. But, Kerr ball is team ball and I haven’t seen next level team play from the youngsters yet.
Last night was a step in the right direction for timeline 2 but, especially after the start of the season, I’m thinking it’s too soon to award accolades. Poole is the current star of the bunch but I’m still waiting for him to mature into the smart player that could make him an all star.
I don’t agree with your under 25 statement. Several poor teams have gotten a number of excellent, first round draftees who are already playing better than the GSW 5. And one is about to hit the jackpot with Wembayamamanama. One differential might be coaching, as GSW rookies have both a large staff and some excellent player coaches.
Pelicans, right?
Zion, Ingram (exactly 25), Herb Jones, Jaxson Hayes, Trey Murphy (don't know much about him)
They key is “under 25” so Ingram’s too old. This wasn’t an arbitrary age I picked; I’ve seen this as the cut off for these types of things. The Ringer uses it for their big rankings.
OK, fair.
Orlando has Paolo, Wagner, Suggs, Bol Bol, and your pick of Mo Bamba, Carter Jr., Anthony, as a young core.
Good call. I knew I was missing someone. Would you trade our five for theirs?
Poole > Suggs
Banchero > Kuminga
Wagner > PBJ
Carter > Wiseman (but Wiseman’s ceiling is higher) 🤷🏼♂️
Bol > Moody
It’s a really tough call.
Again, no question. Yes I would take this trade.
Isn’t Bol old?
Banchero has superstar potential so unless you think Kuminga, Poole, PBJ, or Wiseman has that level of upside, that one guy alone could be worth the deal in the long run. It's similar with Memphis and Morant.
Yeah, Banchero feels like the most obvious best player of all the young Dubs and Magic at this point.
I think Kuminga and Poole have superstar potential (JK because duh and Poole because he gives me Jimmy B vibes from what people on the team have said, and Butler basically worked himself into a star), but yeah if offered Morant straight up for our 25s I'd do it with minimal thought.
Kuminga maybe. Wiseman even, though he has far to go. But Poole... I dunno. I think he's going to be really good but I don't get superstar vibes. For one thing he plays shit defense but even that aside, I just don't quite feel it with him. Morant and Banchero give me those "I'm looking at a future HOFer" shivers. That said, Butler is an interesting comparison (albeit different positions). It took him a few years to become Jimmy Freakin' Butler. So... maybe.
Yeah, I wouldn't bet on him. He doesn't currently have the game-breaking mix of stuff you can sense in Morant and Banchero. But I was watching the Bulls during those early Butler years, and what struck me was Jimmy B's intensity and work ethic. So that's kinda informed my feelings about Poole to a large extent
Maybe?
I’m talking to my therapist about my sullen rosterbation problem. Thought I had it under control, but just can’t stop thinking about TyJo and Lamb. They need to be on the team, upgraded from their 2-way spots for the playoffs. We have room for 1. That means somebody has to go.
Andre: No way he gets cut unless he’s actually too injured to play this year.
Rollins: On a 3 year deal (2 guaranteed) and the Dubs really don’t want dead money on the roster. Could he possibly be traded for, say, a 2024 2nd rounder? Or even just a little cash? He seems like the man on the team with the lowest value to the Dubs right now, and likely next year too.
JMG: Easiest cut, but doesn’t happen unless JW continues to improve, and, possibly, JMG doesn’t. This is my hoped for scenario. But really, what is the opponent configuration that means JMG is a better option than some combo of Lamb/Wiseman/Kuminga????
Just trade JMG for a conditional 2nd. Done.
I don't think you can?
With Steph coming back I don't think there'll be minutes for Jerome this year in the stretch run. DDV, Poole and eventually Andre off the bench will be plenty for ball handling duties. I'm guessing we'll keep JMG and give Lamb the nod. Both will definitely be on the active roster next year though.
As much as I love me some Mr Fate of the Universe, I'm taking TJ who's been playing in the system, getting reps, growing kahuna's, and ballin out over Cryogenic Andre for the fate of the '23 🏆
I think you might have meant 'cojones...'
:-D
Well now this is a hard one. Andre obviously has so much more upside. But we have absolutely no clue how injured or washed he is. Total lack of information make this an impossible decision. Hopefully Andre will get some run before the timer on TyJo expires.
Man, SF chronicle put out an article saying Poole needs to be a starter. It’s getting to be quite the tally of guys who need to play with the starters to succeed.
Perhaps the first 30 seconds of the game should be Poole, DDV, MOOdy, Kuminga, & Wiseman so that when they come back in they will be playing with the starters. Feel free to add any other names that play better with the starters.
NCAA champion Ty Jerome just basically said the team is too selfish to win on the road, and that the fans are carrying the team at home. Kudos to those of you able to go to the games for getting a shout out!
Maybe Warriors fans need to do better at filling opposing team’s arenas?
Starting to get the feeling that Ty is a bad bad man who might be able to contribute to wins anywhichway, including coming off the bench.
I read DNHQ. I don’t read the Chronicle. Excellence vs Garbage.
When I read Connor Letourneau's articles about the Warriors, I marvel at how a pro sports writer can be so completely full of shit so often.
Yeah, I’m on the Tyco Train. I think he’s a long-term answer to bench PG, especially if there’s no chance of keeping DDV, but I still think there’s a chance. (Insert Dumb and Dumber meme)
Do we already know DDV wants to leave?
Every time I bring it up, Beli tries to turn my Hope into despair.
The argument is that, barring injury, there’s no way he doesn’t opt out for big bucks elsewhere. My admittedly-slim hope is that he loves it here, opts in for next year and then the Warriors give him a bag he following season after Klay’s big money comes off the books. Curry, Poole and DDV would be such a good PG/SG rotation and any two fit well together.
There hasnt been a good beli vs goofus argument in some time!
(Insert popcorn eating with a smile gif)
Goofus this is a beautiful dream.
Could the Dubs give him a three year deal that pays something like $8mm - $12mm - $18mm?
More that we can't afford to keep him than he wants to leave, I'd say. He's perfect for Kerr's system.
Jerome's point in the postgame: "We have to come together better." Meaning: the reason the team wins far fewer on the road is that at home each player has the crowd urging them on and supporting them. On the road a player only has his teammates, so they have to be extra supportive. And according to Jerome, this has been a weak area. Hm.
Listening to Jerome, he’s clearly saying “Steph is getting old and I’m the future of the team. Not only should I be starting, but management can save a lot by only putting three players on the court at a time. 3 v 5 would give us awesome spacing.”
See, this is why I don't need to be on Twitter. I can get my hard-hitting, fact-based commentary right here.
LOL
Where did you hear this?
I heard it in my mind as I was making it up. Sorry for confusion.
I think we need more of this type of commentary. Possibly bad lip-synching. Would be hilarious.
I do my best with the random incomprehensible.
I don't think Jerome means what your "hm" infers that he means.
About the 2 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzsXQ4rJhU
I believe he's talking about players and coaches gaining better understanding of what skills each player brings, and trusting them to exhibit those in the context of the system, offensive or defensive. He's talking about learning through experience and that will come. [I also think he's saying, "early in the season, you didn't know how good I was, and I didn't see the floor; but now you are beginning to see I should play more."]
What I don't think he's saying is, "we don't get along well as individuals and that has harmed our team when on the road," which (pardon my straw man) I think is what you imply.
I always hear that team bonding comes with long road trips. Dubs have had 2. Hopefully they finally put it all together through gritty home wins. Hmm...
That was what I interpreted it as, no straw man worries. I think you're probably right, not certain.
I attempt to always choose the interpretation which best suits my Pollyannish view of the universe, or, at least, the Warriors organization.
I thought he was confessing to not feeding Wiseman when he’s open under the rim. 😁
LOL. Yes, but a good point guard always knows to not throw it to the guy who is going to fumble the pass or miss the shot. No doubt he is reflecting on his ability to trust JW more, now that JW has refined his game in the G-League.
This.
I get it, we're losing road games because we don't have bench celebration stalwarts DLee & JTA to keep morale up
Wasn't a huge Bazemore fan dissed the Ws on his way to the Lakers, but the guy was all-NBA for bench celebrations.
Not really OT since it's about a Jazz player: I’ve been thinking about how the Bulls dealt Markkanen to CLE last year in a three-way deal with POR. The Bulls got Derrick Thomas Jr. (not worth much) plus the Blazers’ 2022 conditional 1st round pick (which did not convey, was #7, Blazers took Shaedon Sharpe), plus the Cavs’ 2023 conditional 2nd rounder (which they got from Denver and will likely be a late pick so not worth all that much).
I’m not sure what they get instead of the protected POR 1st rounder that didn’t convey — maybe they get the Blazers’ 2023 1st? They better get something good or that’s a terrible trade for Chicago.
Take advantage of teams with new management who are trying to reshape the team in the image they want? Figures Ainge is involved even as part of new management. Looks like the Nets might have done that too, now that Curry is getting healthy and the wins are flowing in.
IIRC, Markkanen's value was at an all-time low when they dealt him.
True but I considered that a lack of vision and patience. At the time I was surprised they dealt him so cheaply. He was shooting 40% from 3 his last year in CHI, hitting his FTs (82.6%), just age 23. I don't think he was being used well.
it was a sign & trade deal, right? so alternative for the Bulls was him walking for literally nothing
now, it would be easy to walk down the dangerous What If? path & think about whether the Warriors could have swapped picks with Chicago in 2020 & picked up Lauri in the deal…
One knowledgeable Bulls fan I know thought Lauri was complete garbage and was happy to trade him for even nothing. Amazing how much a good role and a change of scenery can do
And a change of coach.
Billy Donovan hasn't seemed to take hold in the pros so far, it seems. Not saying he's a bad NBA coach because I don't really know that but so far, not so good.
Below average for an NBA coach imo. KD had him for a year, and then walked away. Essentially no different than Scott Brooks & probably a bit worse. He might be a good college coach but not in the pros.
He was head coach for the 2015-16 thunder iirc. Since then he's had Westbrook teams until 2020, and then had Lavine + friends teams. He likely not the worst coach in the NBA and those are some rough places to try and lead, but what value-add did he give either org?
I’m trying to think of someone who we were happy to ship off as “garbage” and he blossomed elsewhere…and can’t come up with anything.
Seth, Bouche, Damions Jones & Lee are all doing well, but it’s not like we thought they were shit.
Sounds like a Wiseman cautionary tale
Thankfully, trades are not made on the whims of fickle fans.
Reminds one of a situation involving a certain Andrew Wiggins.
5x💯and plenty more home cooking on the way!
It seems to me Jerome benefits from playing a lot of minutes with JW. He manages to have more room when driving to the hoop than other guards and I wonder if the defending trees don’t collapse on him like they do on Poole because they are wary of the lob to a lurking JW.
I can imagine a day (soon?)when JW is less a defensive liability, plays more minutes, and a more mature Poole uses JW to give him more space. JP’s lightening quickness and crafty selection of shots could make him very difficult to stop. I’ll bet JK’s inside game will improve with more JW lurking as well. (Someday. For now, Looney is clearly the better player.)
Watching tonight it seemed to me that JW is getting a better idea of when to slide out of the paint on offense, while watching for an opening to sweep back in. That leaves more room for drivers/cutters. He didn't do that before his games in SC; he clogged the paint. That's one reason for concern about his fit with Kuminga. It's not all worked out yet but he's starting to figure it out.
They're learning to play off each other. It's a matter of one of them timing their cut to trail the help defender so they're open after the help commits. There were 2-3 passes between the two in the paint this game. There will be many more.
I can't wait for the coming fear from other teams of seeing JK coming at you, committing, only to feel the lights darken as JW rises over you
His positioning is definitely improved.
I am very happy for PBJ. I have been rooting for PBJ since draft day even before watching his play.
Sleepy, please don’t put him in your trade machine 🙏
Haha, okay, won't do! But can I still trade Rollins to guarantee the roster spots of Jerome and Lamb?
I like Rollins!! He’s averaging 26 per 36 on 60 TS% and 37% from deep while also dishing 5 assists per 36 in the G League while also displaying defensive grit!!
It’s a guards world down in santa cruz. When are Ty and Lamb going to actually play there? They have to be running out of games well before season’s end at this rate.
Sure, but would you rather have him taking up a guaranteed roster spot (and ending up on the playoff to roster) than Jerome or Lamb?
Give Lamb the open roster spot. I still think JMG was putting it together before going out, so don’t think Lamb will be that important with Wiggins, Andre and JaMychal on the team.
I’d give the open roster spot to Jerome, as our 4th guard. I’m hopeful that JK and Moody continue to step into the 3/4 roles that Lamb plays.
I like PBJ and wouldn’t trade him, effectively for Lamb. PBJ has a very specific role as a stretch 4/5 laid out in his future and he won’t be called upon for rotation minutes for 2 years. Key here is we have 4 years at a very reasonable salary to develop him.
Rollins is a different calculous. Question is will he be ready to be a 4th guard next year? If not, then we don’t have enough runway to develop him and I’d consider trading him for a future 2d and opening up the spot for Lamb.
lol rollins may be ready now...any timehe got more than garbage minutes, he has really balled....
Why don't we just cut Andre?
I agree that it's not happening. But I kind of wish Andre would decide that his best way to help the team is to retire. He could stay on to mentor the younger players and encourage the veteran core, while freeing up a roster spot.
Honestly maybe depending on how good everyone looks/ how healthy everyone feels? That feels like a gamble the FO would make...
The only way it would work is if Andre agreed to become a 'coach' (for more money, probably).
He was adamantly opposed to that at the beginning of the season, and considering he came back as a favor to Steph, I doubt he'd do it now.
No. Just no.
Yes. We need those guys!
Remember how optimistic we were before the season started about our bench squad? Then everything went to crap. But now they are living up to it, and it is glorious! May it continue!
I'm still holding my breath until I see it against good teams. But it's encouraging for sure
And on the road
Memphis says hi
Against good teams we need them to be our bench and not starters.
Memphis says hi
"against good teams" being operative
I thought the disparity between home and road games would eventually go away but it keeps getting bigger.
It'll even up when the dubs go streaking into 1st until they let off the gas pedal for the final month.
https://twitter.com/957thegame/status/1608344417320206338
Donte DiVincenzo on today’s win:
“We had our energy right and our spirit right, and knew we would come out and get the win.”
Satisfying win. Chase Center was LOUD tonight. And why shouldn't they be? The Dubs played their hearts out up and down the (remaining) roster.
Draymond's defense in the clutch tonight was INSANE. Just absolutely beastly. Give that man an extension.
Give that man an epidural, a nerve block and an ablation of the spine!
When he calmly smiled and did the 'my bad' after making the outlet pass that led Jerome to far and resulted in a turnover, I got the feeling that he would absolutely lock down the rest of the game. It also helps when the refs aren't making bad calls against him.
There's something else: No matter what any of us have remarked, Draymond is still very much one of the most important leaders of the team, probably second only to Steph. At one point tonight he was coming out of the game, and on his way to his seat, he — not a coach — was calling out to the guys on the court what their defensive assignments were. He's the Man on defense. And he is referred to as a crucial leader in player interview after player interview.
This is one of the main reasons I suspect their early season woes definitely were impacted by the Punch and Draymond's inability to lead effectively over the first 25 games or so.
Maybe that's part of it. But I think the youth and inexperience of the bench mob and lack of playing time together had more to do with that. We are seeing the kids develop game by game. JW was a mess at the start of the season; now he is improving on all fronts. JK has risen to another level. We weren't sure PBJ could even play NBA ball. And Jerome, Lamb, and DDV were new to us two months ago. DDV got here at almost the last minute before the season, then got hurt. It takes time to develop chemistry, as you know.
I agree with you about the young guys needing time to develop, but I also think Dray's leadership could have made a difference there. Exhibit A would be the turnaround when he began directing the second string. Yes, they needed game time to learn to play together. But they also needed someone to help them get into their places, to get them to play at an advantageous pace, and to help them learn how to play at this level. Dray was all of that and more once he began to be able to lead overtly again.
Agreed. DDV looked pretty scattered to start the season, playing with energy but getting lackluster results. Now that he gets when and where to be in the current Warriors system, he's contributing a lot more.
Wiseman was still looking like a mess pretty recently, but it feels like something clicked in Santa Cruz or against one of the New York teams, because his positional play since coming back from the road trip has been hugely improved. I think the G-league did him a lot of good, but he's probably still going to be inconsistent this year.
Shit man, I owe Draymond an apology. I couldn't get rid of him fast enough following the punch. Dude is straight up basketball in human form.
The way I see it, the punch was a serious lowlight in Draymond's career; it was very dangerous, and it showed an embarrassing lack of maturity and self-control from someone who's in a position where he should really know better. It's a black mark that will stick with him forever as the proof that despite everyone's hopes, he hadn't changed for the better then, so it will be even harder to trust in the future that he has.
But ultimately, it was a dumb mistake, an out of control moment, and he recognized quickly that it was. The things he said afterward were, for the most part, the right things to mend the relationship and get on with doing his job. It would be naive to assume that he "learned his lesson" from this and won't make a similar mistake again, but we can still hope he did take away something he can use positively from it. Time will tell.
He was lucky he didn't injure Poole; that makes it certainly easier to forgive. Between his apology and his behavior since, I'm still willing to accept him as a valuable part of the team. Certainly he wasn't the first and won't be the last incredible athlete to have deep character flaws.
Humans are imperfect and forgiveness is a complicated thing. But I think it's fine to respect the skills, the work, and the actions of someone in one area even if you have reservations or criticisms of them in another.
well said
I took my kids. Thank them!