How the Warriors have the 5th best Defense (points allowed) is crazy. If you factor in Wiseman's minutes, all the youth, all the new teammates trying to learn a completely different style of play, covid and all the injuries ... ???? You could say that this stat is more impressive than what Curry has done this year, because I am not surpised by anything Curry ever does. Anyone who questions Kerr as a coach (sideline nit picking aside) ought to consider this stat. Playing hard night in and night out in a compressed season, doing the dirty work, not phoning it in, fighting back from early deficits; these guys played even though they had more than a few reasons to slip the car into neutral and coast this season. For those who thinks Draymond needs to shoot more, there is another way to win games and that is limiting points on the other end. As the leader on that side of the ball, Green better get All First Team D. The overlooked Looney is the best defender in NBA History with a 3 inch vertical leap. Steph took it to a different level this year. He is absolutely a plus defender now. Wiggs? C'mon. Who saw THAT coming? Pesky Baze and JTA & Lee giving max effort? It's quite an accomplishment and it bodes well for next year. If we want to win another Chip, it starts on the defensive end and in my mind, based on what they did defensively, this was not a lost season.
Some minor nitpicks I'd leave: I think Steph is still not a plus defender all the time. He was definitely looking less than stellar on defense against OKC's speedy youngsters the other night, not that it mattered with how he was torching them on the other end. But the fact that he's not committing fouls is a huge improvement in that regard anyway, and he covers for his weakness at the point of attack by funneling drivers toward a shot-blocker when one is in position. I think that's part of why Looney or Green at center has been so much more effective than Wiseman with the first unit: Wiseman is not as good at tracking and predicting where he needs to be, so Steph ends up funneling the driver to an open lane instead of a lurking big man. But if Wiseman can develop that vision—something that seems possible with experience, though you never know what people can and can't pick up—that bodes well for next year's defense.
Baze, JTA, and Lee giving max effort is spot on. All of them (maybe Lee less so) have a tendency to commit unnecessary fouls, but the rest of the time their insane dedication forces turnovers and blows up plays in a glorious chaos.
Also, credit where it's due: Oubre and Wanamaker were not inconsequential contributors on the defensive end when they were playing big minutes. Oubre didn't have the help rotations down consistently, but he's elite at using his insane wingspan to hassle guys on-ball, and he's actually more disciplined than you might imagine about not falling for pump fakes. Wanamaker really is a quality defender at his position, offensive woes aside. And Gary Payton II showed us some pretty elite defense in spot minutes during his two 10-days.
Jordan Poole and Michael Mulder are still not good defenders but the improvements they've shown since last season are honestly pretty encouraging? But in the current 8-man rotation, those two are the weak links. Paschall, when he comes back, definitely has to prove his defense can be better, too.
But yeah, one of the most frustrating things about this season is how the team looks so good on defense in some games and then completely forgets how to play in some games or even just individual, critical quarters (1st or 4th especially). I mean, the brief stretch where Mannion was getting a bunch of run didn't help since he was just getting bodied by guys twice his weight, but even that aside, we had a few games where even Draymond looked like a slacker, Wiggins was a play behind, everyone else was committing laughably bad fouls, etc. I guess sometimes NBA games just tend to spiral out of control, but it's still frustrating when the team has a collective brain fart leading to a loss.
In my book, Draymond is still the best defender in the NBA, because he does everything at a high level. EVERYTHING! One-on-one post defense? He's got about as good a chance as anyone at stopping even elites like Jokic and Embiid. On the perimeter? Good luck, nobody wants to get him on a switch there. Off-ball? Oops, he's even stronger as a free-roaming help defender. In transition? His epic ability to defend a 1-on-3 beggars belief. Switching him for another defender? He and Steph are sneaky good at undoing the switch the instant you let your guard down. It's the NBA, so guys are still crazy good and they will score some of the time. But there is nobody in the league who looks to get matched up against Draymond on any part of the court to create an advantage. It just doesn't work that way. Rebounding is about the only place where some (really tall) guys can actually take advantage of that, and he still boxes out like a (quite literal!) champ and corrals a respectable number of them.
Side-note: I continue to be impressed at how well JTA at center has worked out as a lineup trend for the Warriors. He's shorter than Klay, for crying out loud! (For that matter, so is Draymond, which is still kind of hard to understand.) And JTA's defense is not as elite as Green's, yet... somehow the team seems to hold up OK without a proper center when he's out there. When we first brought him up from Santa Cruz last season, people were looking at him as a "3-and-D wing" and... in a way, that's what we got, but so much more than we expected.
Anyone seen a Toffy Machine like the one they have down at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk? Well, an NBA defense looks like the Toffy when Staph and Klay are on the court together: constantly being pulled in two directions, stretched and mixed up, and stretched out of position again. This is my best visual for the idea of Gravity and how Steph and Klay stretch an opposing defense. And if Steph and Klay are bringing the gravity, that would make Draymond Madre Freakin Copernicus! Dray understands better than anyone the motion of the planets, where they were, where they are, and where they are going to be in 2 seconds at all times on the court. Trading Draymond would be like wanting to have a better University faculty and trading Einstein. They are all 3 incredible talents in their own rights, but they are greater than the sum of their parts. When the 3 occupy the court at the same time, they break the game. And I think a lot of fans have forgotten that. Tell you who hasn't forgotten .... NBA head coaches. However this year ends, let's not forget that THE SHOW is coming back to town.
If you mean the defense argument, yeah. I tend to think he's transformational enough on offense, and offense is more important than defense, to more than make up the difference. At least when he's playing at the level he is right now....
This season is comparable to unanimous, with far worse supporting cast and thusly insane defense on him. Jokic’s season was great, ditto Embiid and Giannis, but what Steph has done this year is impossible.
Well LolLAKERS didn't cooperate. Both UTAH and PHOENIX will come in hard-pressed for a win; the former to keep/grow its lead/closer to home court, and, the latter, desperately take its last shots at it. We need to get the first of the B2B, tonight, against UTAH. Nuff said.
I watched some of the game last night. Phoenix did not look good. The Lakers looked impressive on D (they are 1st in the league) and Davis was dominant.
I turned off the game dubs vs OKC after three quarters, but just watched the 27 three compilation in this article. While Steph was clearly on fire, it is kind of fun that Nico Mannion made the 25th (record breaking) three and Smiley hit the 27th and final (new set record set).
This is a tough crowd. I've watched and enjoyed almost all the games this year. Kerr wanted a top 10 defense and he got one. Curry showed his worth. Draymond showed his worth. Toscano-Anderson played above expectations. Wiggins was incredibly steady. Looney is Mr. Invisible Glue and Plus-Minus Champ. Bazemore was frequently frustrating, but he did a lot of good stuff too. Oubre had a tough time at the beginning of the season, but even then he played good D. Wiseman showed enough flashes to be intriguing for the very long term (3 - 5 years from now he should be excellent, if injuries don't tear him down).
Yet so many here were bitching and moaning and calling for Beale, because we of course need an inefficient, short ball-dominant guard who is going to take us hundreds of millions more into the Luxury Tax. Thank God Myers is GM and not these guys.
I'm looking forward to a good playoff run, the drafting a couple of solid players who will make a difference and the Return of Klay Thompson, Superstar. Really, he's going to be better than ever, in Playoff Game 6 Flamethrowing-60-points-on-14-dribbles mode.
Now, may Smailagic turn into Jokic over the summer, Mannion grow 3 inches and Poole continue to improve at the same rate as last year.
You have prime Steph Curry and close-to-prime Draymond Green on your team who have been healthy for most of the season, and your team is 35-33.
That is greatly inadequate. If we had an okay supporting cast and not the worst supporting cast in the league (I'm only counting teams that are not tanking, so don't say Detroit or OKC), we would be up there with the Lakers, Blazers and Mavs.
Totally agreed that the FO has done an inexcusably horrible job and that they literally punted on the season. But I think the supporting cast inadequacy is really just the center position. The rest of it is good enough to compete in the playoffs imo, although they'd need more offensively to win a championship. This team needed a starting center, but they were given a high schooler and Smailagic (who matters because when Chriss went down they had Smiley on the roster so they didn't sign anyone). I think they'd easily be up in the mix with the Lakers/Blazers/Mavs had they not been so fatigued pre-All Star break and in the past few weeks.
But as far as the guards/wings, Oubre/Wiggins/JTA/Bazemore is an excellent collection of defensive talent (and Wanamaker and GP2 were too when sprinkled in). Looney is a great backup center (although he's being forced to start because the FO is leaving the team to die) and imo Lee and Curry compete hard defensively. Even with all those Wiseman and Paschall minutes earlier in the season, this team is currently top 5 defensively. Every other top 5 defense has that rim protector which should tell you how good the guard/wing defensive talent is here (but it's not a "true" top 5 defense without that rim protection imo, not robust enough).
I don't really think this team can win a round in the playoffs without Lee/Oubre (probably not even with compromised Lee/Oubre which seems like the best scenario but Oubre is a very tough player so who knows), but I definitely think they could have made a bit of a run with those guys if they made it to the playoffs in one piece stayed out of the paths of the LA teams. Oh well.
Not getting a guy in the offseason was the needle that broke the camel's back imo. Not adding someone after Chriss went down or Wiseman and Looney also went down in February or after the trade deadline or after Wiseman went down again...well, they certainly had opportunities.
I assume you meant playing not paying? They are forced to play him like a starting center because of how badly they fucked up the center rotation. He's not durable enough for this role, they are really playing with fire getting him up to 30+ minutes a night.
They weren't signing anybody in the offseason that would make more than Looney, and they already had Chriss, Looney, and drafted Wiseman. If you're suggesting they should have drafted a wing and picked up a center in the offseason instead of the reverse, that's a different discussion. But we weren't going to just "pick up" a center that's worth more than $5M in the offseason to come into a situation where Chriss, Looney, and Wiseman already reside.
Now, not signing anybody at all when Looney and Wiseman went down was quite an interesting decision indeed (as was not re-upping GPII). Probably could have been more aggressive there. But by that point, it's was obvious we're not winning the championship this year. This is an ownership group that swings for home runs instead of singles... IMO, and skipping that signing doesn't impact championships, so what's the point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. My guess is that they are prioritizing "2021 offseason trade chips" over "2021 playoff seeding". But I'm just an observer...
If Smailagic can turn into Jokic over the summer, and Mannion can grow 3 inches, maybe so can I. With a bit of luck, I may even turn into Joel Embiid in 3-5 years. I'm willing to sign for the mid-level and bring this team back to championship glory. Who needs scrubs like Bradley Beal when you've got me.
Bradley Beal is (1) not at all inefficient; (2) not particularly ball-dominant (I mean, he's thriving alongside Westbrook!); and (3) not going to take the Warriors any further into the luxury tax than they already are, since they'd have to send out comparable salary to acquire him.
Also (4) it's "Beal"; and (5) last I checked, nobody here is bitching and moaning and calling for him.
Generally agreed with your thoughts on the Warriors, though obviously Smiley isn't become Jokic. and Mannion is not growing three inches. Whether Klay will be "better than ever" remains to be seen, but from your keyboard to Klay's Achilles...
I stand corrected on "Beal," and thank you for your frequent and smart comments. RE: 1. Beal is shooting less than 35% on 3s. His team does worse when he scores more (earlier this year, 0 - 11 season when he's >40 points, before they won one with Utah). RE: 2 His usage rate this year is > 30%. RE: 3. Who are the Warriors going to part with? Wiggins? Who would take him at his salary? Steph? No. Klay? No. Draymond? No.
RE: 5. I spend too much time here and the The Athletic. There have been plenty of calls for Beal (though mostly earlier this season) and WIN NOW. Frankly, I don't want to see more short people (well, short in NBA terms) on the team, even if their arm length makes them 7 footers.
So here are the questions - what was it that turned Klay from "meh" to Superman from time to time? Any chance that sitting the last two years will be the thing that releases Klay from his self-imposed limits? Me, I'm counting on Klay being as delightful as ever, with a heightened passion for dominating.
1. Shooting 35% from three does not make a player “inefficient.” Beal’s true shooting % (the actual measure of his points scored per possession used) is .596 — slightly more efficient than Klay has been over his career, on higher usage.
2. Fair point on “ball dominant” based on his USG, but Beal’s also an excellent passer.who has shown he can play within a team concept, and be a successful second banana.
3. Again, there is no mechanism by which Beal would significantly add to the team’s luxury tax, since he could not be acquired without sending off Wiggins, Green, Thompson, or Curry — all of whom, as you note, are highly unlikely to be traded for Beal. Which leads to 4:
4. No one but you is talking about Beal anymore, except in the context of “guy Steph needs to beat for the scoring title.” He hasn’t been a discussion as a trade target on this site or any other Warriors site in months, or roughly since it became clear that (a) the Wiz love him and are playing great with him; and (b) the Warriors love Wiggins and are playing great with him.
There are enough interesting debates to have about this team going forward that don’t involve dredging up old retired straw men from the past. Pretty sure no one in Dub Nation wants to trade Steph to pair Monta Ellis with a “real PG,” either?
Some truth bombs there. Although I have to admit to giving myself whiplash between the idea of running it back with Klay, and trading for veteran help (picks + wiggs - not advocating for JW trade unless it’s for Giannis, likelihood = 0%). But Wiggs has been looking really nice and I can’t help wonder what that looks like as a third scoring option??
So, I continue to flip flop my way between every high (nuggets win) to every devastating loss (Mavs/Atlanta). Thank goodness I’m not a GM. I fulfill the role of emotionally charged supporter far better.
I can’t see wiggins’ trade value being as much as he produces... he’s prob still considered a negative value contract. For that, I don’t think we can realistically get BETTER by trading him.
Agreed. I doubt Wiggins value has increased all that much with us. He's shown to be a useful player but he's still getting paid like crazy. He still doesn't produce nearly enough to warrant that contract.
How lucky are we to have had three home-grown draft picks - Steph, Klay, Draymond - as the core for so long? If I was Commissioner, or negotiating for the owners, I would have reduced penalties in the Luxury tax for drafted players. Teams should not be penalized for good/lucky drafting and creating organizations where people want to stay.
I'm enjoying the ride, and giving thanks for being able to watch and laugh with the Entertainer and Joyful Man at his ridiculous stupendousness.
If Beal doesn't play the rest of the season, Steph would have to score 99 points in the final 4 games (24.75 ppg) to take the scoring title. Seems quite likely at this stage - he might be able to get that done in 3 games (or possibly even 2 if he explodes against the Jazz and Suns).
Yes - If Steph missed one game, he'd only need 67 points (22.3 ppg) to clinch the title. Worst case scenario is that he'd play all four games but fewer minutes (~24) in the final two. Don't think Kerr would let this happen. We'll have a better idea after the Utah game tomorrow - if he gets 40 there, then he'd only need 59 in the final 3 games or 27 in two games if he sat one out. Much better chance of him getting his average up to 32 than losing out on the scoring title.
Glad they took care of business against OKC and love that Curry is in full scoring title or bust mode. Curious if they can split or better the two games against the top of the West.
Just imagine how good the Warrior defense would be if they had a legit rim protector behind Draymond. The Warriors have an elite set of defensive wings and Looney is great at playing switching defense but adding a Myles Turner type behind Draymond would put them in contention for the best defense in the league.
Definitely curious to see what happens with Indiana (and the Minny pick), they could be a prime trade partner with guys like Brogdon and Turner (and perhaps Warren) who would fit very well next to Curry and Draymond.
Give me Turner and Brogdon for Wiseman, Paschall and the Minnesota pick. Really risking the future but would put the Warriors right back into legit title contention
I'd do that right now, and I'd throw in our own 2021 pick, Oubre in a sign-and-trade if he agrees, and whatever else is needed. I'd consider Wiggins but it'd be tough.
Is it really risking the future when Turner is 25 and Brogon is 28?
Edit: and yeah, as you note, the $$$ don’t add up. We’d need to include a whole bunch more salary. Basically, Wiggins, and that makes it a lot tougher for me.
Could an Oubre sign and trade make the money add up? It would basically be cashing the last of our trade chips in Wiseman, Minn pick, and Paschall. But it would probably be worth it.
And let's not forget that Wiggins is still only 26. He's really embraced his role this year as a second option on offense and as a stopper of top opponents on D. I remember Myers talking about how much better a positional fit Wiggins was when the DLo trade was made, and Wiggins has made that clear through his play this year. Starting every game this season is also a big plus.
I'm coming to the conclusion that KO's playing style is not conducive to winning. He's an amazing raw talent but as a high usage/poor efficiency shooter he's taking away opportunities for other players. Reminds me a bit of Westbrook (KO's not as talented but also physically gifted) - he'll fill the highlight reel but can easily shoot his team right out of games. If we can find a way to get something for him in a deal (even if we're just absorbing salary that we can use down the road) rather than lose him outright, I'd be thrilled.
Wiseman and a the pick Will work for Turner only. And Indiana is imploding. Turner is not only is an elite defensive center but also can space the floor Next to draymond..a dream
Yeah. But receiving team would be hardcapped. So essentially have a find trade partner where Oubre wants to go and team is open to be hard capped for a season like we did.
This is the key for me. I like Wiggins but I do think trading Wiggins and re-signing Oubre is better for the team long term than keeping Wiggins and losing Oubre for nothing. Perhaps Oubre really is planning on re-signing and coming off the bench though, that's something we as fans can't know. But this would offer him a starting spot. Perhaps a year from now you'd have to trade Oubre or Brogdon if Brogdon hates coming off the bench, but so be it imo, at least for next year they'd be awesome. And who knows, Brogdon has gotten paid and is 28, maybe he'd be more okay with that role than Oubre.
That team is extremely well balanced imo. They say Turner's biggest weakness is rebounding so having Oubre (and Curry) next to him along with Draymond would be perfect for him. Oubre and Brogdon can guard PGs which allows Klay to transition to guarding wings post-injury. Turner's spacing complements Draymond's lack of spacing. Brogdon gives them another ballhandler/passer/shooter who can make opponents pay for blitzing Curry and can be plugged in as the backup PG. Oubre/Draymond/Turner(/hopefully Klay) would wreak havoc defensively. And Brogdon could easily start on back to backs when Klay is resting.
Plus, the closing lineup is Curry/Brogdon/Klay/Oubre/Draymond. That's championship worthy imo.
You know, if only the Warriors added one more sharpshooting wing and an athletic young big man, they'd have a complete team. Anyone know where we might find such players?
It's not what they didn't do. But rather what they are doing - saving money on the margins. They have two open rosters where Austin Rivers kind of player would have won us few more close games. Those extra wins would mean #5 or #6 seed and Steph getting MVP and having a much needed rest before heading to Playoffs.
So yeah, let's just save money on the margins. Who cares about Playins/Playoffs anyways! /s/.
People who don’t blame Myers just don’t have enough imagination. In hindsight, every GM could do better. Myers could have drafted LaMelo. He could have supposedly traded Oubre for Lonzo. Perhaps he could have traded for a vet. Gafford was a late pick up that has helped Washington at the Center position. Derrick Rose has helped the Knicks immensely.
Instead, Myers used the number 2 pick on the center position, which does not fit Kerr’s system. Also, a developmental project is not something you want during Curry’s prime.
My complaint on Myers is he is not picking players that mesh well with Steph. Oubre is not a good enough 3 point shooter to play on this team. JTA is better than Oubre in Kerr’s system, so good for Myers for getting JTA. Getting bodies with only a few games left in the season is weak. They should have done it sooner. It will take too long to integrate Bell back into the line up.
In three years, I think Wiseman's gonna be a Embiid-like monster with a strong three ball and the ability to protect the rim. Yes, he could be a bust, but I like his apparent work ethic and he does have phenomenal athletic skills. If you keep him around Steph, Dray, Klay, Loon, and JTA, he'll learn the game the right way. I'd be pretty sad to see him beat up on the Dubs on another club if we give up on him too soon.
Much more likely that Wiseman is Miles Turner in 5 years than Embiid in 3 years. There are literally a thousand different ways for a talented young big to *not* turn into Joel Embiid, and that's excluding injury.
I agree with you that he'll probably take 3 years to be a productive player, and has an Embiid like ceiling, but that timeline just doesn't mesh with Curry's (second) prime. LaMelo probably has a similar ceiling, and is ready to play in the NBA right now, although I won't pretend I was clamoring for LaMelo at draft time, I would love to see what our offers were to trade down, and I would love to see Haliburton playing shooting guard and backup point for this team.
I am not sure Kerr is the right coach and this is the right system for Wiseman for optimizing his talents. Wiseman best skill is pick and roll and that is the opposite of what the Dubs do. Besides, our best center has always been Draymond. I hope I am wrong and Wiseman develops into the next AD. However, it will take years to find out. Curry is in his prime, the Dubs should not waste something so precious.
How the Warriors have the 5th best Defense (points allowed) is crazy. If you factor in Wiseman's minutes, all the youth, all the new teammates trying to learn a completely different style of play, covid and all the injuries ... ???? You could say that this stat is more impressive than what Curry has done this year, because I am not surpised by anything Curry ever does. Anyone who questions Kerr as a coach (sideline nit picking aside) ought to consider this stat. Playing hard night in and night out in a compressed season, doing the dirty work, not phoning it in, fighting back from early deficits; these guys played even though they had more than a few reasons to slip the car into neutral and coast this season. For those who thinks Draymond needs to shoot more, there is another way to win games and that is limiting points on the other end. As the leader on that side of the ball, Green better get All First Team D. The overlooked Looney is the best defender in NBA History with a 3 inch vertical leap. Steph took it to a different level this year. He is absolutely a plus defender now. Wiggs? C'mon. Who saw THAT coming? Pesky Baze and JTA & Lee giving max effort? It's quite an accomplishment and it bodes well for next year. If we want to win another Chip, it starts on the defensive end and in my mind, based on what they did defensively, this was not a lost season.
Amen.
Some minor nitpicks I'd leave: I think Steph is still not a plus defender all the time. He was definitely looking less than stellar on defense against OKC's speedy youngsters the other night, not that it mattered with how he was torching them on the other end. But the fact that he's not committing fouls is a huge improvement in that regard anyway, and he covers for his weakness at the point of attack by funneling drivers toward a shot-blocker when one is in position. I think that's part of why Looney or Green at center has been so much more effective than Wiseman with the first unit: Wiseman is not as good at tracking and predicting where he needs to be, so Steph ends up funneling the driver to an open lane instead of a lurking big man. But if Wiseman can develop that vision—something that seems possible with experience, though you never know what people can and can't pick up—that bodes well for next year's defense.
Baze, JTA, and Lee giving max effort is spot on. All of them (maybe Lee less so) have a tendency to commit unnecessary fouls, but the rest of the time their insane dedication forces turnovers and blows up plays in a glorious chaos.
Also, credit where it's due: Oubre and Wanamaker were not inconsequential contributors on the defensive end when they were playing big minutes. Oubre didn't have the help rotations down consistently, but he's elite at using his insane wingspan to hassle guys on-ball, and he's actually more disciplined than you might imagine about not falling for pump fakes. Wanamaker really is a quality defender at his position, offensive woes aside. And Gary Payton II showed us some pretty elite defense in spot minutes during his two 10-days.
Jordan Poole and Michael Mulder are still not good defenders but the improvements they've shown since last season are honestly pretty encouraging? But in the current 8-man rotation, those two are the weak links. Paschall, when he comes back, definitely has to prove his defense can be better, too.
But yeah, one of the most frustrating things about this season is how the team looks so good on defense in some games and then completely forgets how to play in some games or even just individual, critical quarters (1st or 4th especially). I mean, the brief stretch where Mannion was getting a bunch of run didn't help since he was just getting bodied by guys twice his weight, but even that aside, we had a few games where even Draymond looked like a slacker, Wiggins was a play behind, everyone else was committing laughably bad fouls, etc. I guess sometimes NBA games just tend to spiral out of control, but it's still frustrating when the team has a collective brain fart leading to a loss.
In my book, Draymond is still the best defender in the NBA, because he does everything at a high level. EVERYTHING! One-on-one post defense? He's got about as good a chance as anyone at stopping even elites like Jokic and Embiid. On the perimeter? Good luck, nobody wants to get him on a switch there. Off-ball? Oops, he's even stronger as a free-roaming help defender. In transition? His epic ability to defend a 1-on-3 beggars belief. Switching him for another defender? He and Steph are sneaky good at undoing the switch the instant you let your guard down. It's the NBA, so guys are still crazy good and they will score some of the time. But there is nobody in the league who looks to get matched up against Draymond on any part of the court to create an advantage. It just doesn't work that way. Rebounding is about the only place where some (really tall) guys can actually take advantage of that, and he still boxes out like a (quite literal!) champ and corrals a respectable number of them.
Side-note: I continue to be impressed at how well JTA at center has worked out as a lineup trend for the Warriors. He's shorter than Klay, for crying out loud! (For that matter, so is Draymond, which is still kind of hard to understand.) And JTA's defense is not as elite as Green's, yet... somehow the team seems to hold up OK without a proper center when he's out there. When we first brought him up from Santa Cruz last season, people were looking at him as a "3-and-D wing" and... in a way, that's what we got, but so much more than we expected.
Is it still too early to talk about Scottie Barnes? Ok, I'll wait.
Anyone seen a Toffy Machine like the one they have down at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk? Well, an NBA defense looks like the Toffy when Staph and Klay are on the court together: constantly being pulled in two directions, stretched and mixed up, and stretched out of position again. This is my best visual for the idea of Gravity and how Steph and Klay stretch an opposing defense. And if Steph and Klay are bringing the gravity, that would make Draymond Madre Freakin Copernicus! Dray understands better than anyone the motion of the planets, where they were, where they are, and where they are going to be in 2 seconds at all times on the court. Trading Draymond would be like wanting to have a better University faculty and trading Einstein. They are all 3 incredible talents in their own rights, but they are greater than the sum of their parts. When the 3 occupy the court at the same time, they break the game. And I think a lot of fans have forgotten that. Tell you who hasn't forgotten .... NBA head coaches. However this year ends, let's not forget that THE SHOW is coming back to town.
Well-said
Kevin O'Connor's (TheRinger) awards ballot (not quite final): https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/5/10/22428481/nba-awards-mvp-nikola-jokic-joel-embiid. Seems pretty reasonable.
He says Steph is just doing what he always does. That invalidates his take.
If you mean the defense argument, yeah. I tend to think he's transformational enough on offense, and offense is more important than defense, to more than make up the difference. At least when he's playing at the level he is right now....
This season is comparable to unanimous, with far worse supporting cast and thusly insane defense on him. Jokic’s season was great, ditto Embiid and Giannis, but what Steph has done this year is impossible.
Well LolLAKERS didn't cooperate. Both UTAH and PHOENIX will come in hard-pressed for a win; the former to keep/grow its lead/closer to home court, and, the latter, desperately take its last shots at it. We need to get the first of the B2B, tonight, against UTAH. Nuff said.
I watched some of the game last night. Phoenix did not look good. The Lakers looked impressive on D (they are 1st in the league) and Davis was dominant.
Got it: so be impressive D, and have generational star dominate offensively... seems doable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Conley and Mitchell out tomorrow. We might be able to steal this one. Did Warriors practice toda
I turned off the game dubs vs OKC after three quarters, but just watched the 27 three compilation in this article. While Steph was clearly on fire, it is kind of fun that Nico Mannion made the 25th (record breaking) three and Smiley hit the 27th and final (new set record set).
Lakers taking it to the Suns right now, up 16
This is a tough crowd. I've watched and enjoyed almost all the games this year. Kerr wanted a top 10 defense and he got one. Curry showed his worth. Draymond showed his worth. Toscano-Anderson played above expectations. Wiggins was incredibly steady. Looney is Mr. Invisible Glue and Plus-Minus Champ. Bazemore was frequently frustrating, but he did a lot of good stuff too. Oubre had a tough time at the beginning of the season, but even then he played good D. Wiseman showed enough flashes to be intriguing for the very long term (3 - 5 years from now he should be excellent, if injuries don't tear him down).
Yet so many here were bitching and moaning and calling for Beale, because we of course need an inefficient, short ball-dominant guard who is going to take us hundreds of millions more into the Luxury Tax. Thank God Myers is GM and not these guys.
I'm looking forward to a good playoff run, the drafting a couple of solid players who will make a difference and the Return of Klay Thompson, Superstar. Really, he's going to be better than ever, in Playoff Game 6 Flamethrowing-60-points-on-14-dribbles mode.
Now, may Smailagic turn into Jokic over the summer, Mannion grow 3 inches and Poole continue to improve at the same rate as last year.
You have prime Steph Curry and close-to-prime Draymond Green on your team who have been healthy for most of the season, and your team is 35-33.
That is greatly inadequate. If we had an okay supporting cast and not the worst supporting cast in the league (I'm only counting teams that are not tanking, so don't say Detroit or OKC), we would be up there with the Lakers, Blazers and Mavs.
Totally agreed that the FO has done an inexcusably horrible job and that they literally punted on the season. But I think the supporting cast inadequacy is really just the center position. The rest of it is good enough to compete in the playoffs imo, although they'd need more offensively to win a championship. This team needed a starting center, but they were given a high schooler and Smailagic (who matters because when Chriss went down they had Smiley on the roster so they didn't sign anyone). I think they'd easily be up in the mix with the Lakers/Blazers/Mavs had they not been so fatigued pre-All Star break and in the past few weeks.
But as far as the guards/wings, Oubre/Wiggins/JTA/Bazemore is an excellent collection of defensive talent (and Wanamaker and GP2 were too when sprinkled in). Looney is a great backup center (although he's being forced to start because the FO is leaving the team to die) and imo Lee and Curry compete hard defensively. Even with all those Wiseman and Paschall minutes earlier in the season, this team is currently top 5 defensively. Every other top 5 defense has that rim protector which should tell you how good the guard/wing defensive talent is here (but it's not a "true" top 5 defense without that rim protection imo, not robust enough).
I don't really think this team can win a round in the playoffs without Lee/Oubre (probably not even with compromised Lee/Oubre which seems like the best scenario but Oubre is a very tough player so who knows), but I definitely think they could have made a bit of a run with those guys if they made it to the playoffs in one piece stayed out of the paths of the LA teams. Oh well.
We aren’t paying Looney like a “backup center”... Chriss going down was probably the needle that broke this camels back...
Not getting a guy in the offseason was the needle that broke the camel's back imo. Not adding someone after Chriss went down or Wiseman and Looney also went down in February or after the trade deadline or after Wiseman went down again...well, they certainly had opportunities.
I assume you meant playing not paying? They are forced to play him like a starting center because of how badly they fucked up the center rotation. He's not durable enough for this role, they are really playing with fire getting him up to 30+ minutes a night.
They weren't signing anybody in the offseason that would make more than Looney, and they already had Chriss, Looney, and drafted Wiseman. If you're suggesting they should have drafted a wing and picked up a center in the offseason instead of the reverse, that's a different discussion. But we weren't going to just "pick up" a center that's worth more than $5M in the offseason to come into a situation where Chriss, Looney, and Wiseman already reside.
Now, not signing anybody at all when Looney and Wiseman went down was quite an interesting decision indeed (as was not re-upping GPII). Probably could have been more aggressive there. But by that point, it's was obvious we're not winning the championship this year. This is an ownership group that swings for home runs instead of singles... IMO, and skipping that signing doesn't impact championships, so what's the point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. My guess is that they are prioritizing "2021 offseason trade chips" over "2021 playoff seeding". But I'm just an observer...
Now this is Gold Blooded
If Smailagic can turn into Jokic over the summer, and Mannion can grow 3 inches, maybe so can I. With a bit of luck, I may even turn into Joel Embiid in 3-5 years. I'm willing to sign for the mid-level and bring this team back to championship glory. Who needs scrubs like Bradley Beal when you've got me.
Bradley Beal is (1) not at all inefficient; (2) not particularly ball-dominant (I mean, he's thriving alongside Westbrook!); and (3) not going to take the Warriors any further into the luxury tax than they already are, since they'd have to send out comparable salary to acquire him.
Also (4) it's "Beal"; and (5) last I checked, nobody here is bitching and moaning and calling for him.
Generally agreed with your thoughts on the Warriors, though obviously Smiley isn't become Jokic. and Mannion is not growing three inches. Whether Klay will be "better than ever" remains to be seen, but from your keyboard to Klay's Achilles...
I stand corrected on "Beal," and thank you for your frequent and smart comments. RE: 1. Beal is shooting less than 35% on 3s. His team does worse when he scores more (earlier this year, 0 - 11 season when he's >40 points, before they won one with Utah). RE: 2 His usage rate this year is > 30%. RE: 3. Who are the Warriors going to part with? Wiggins? Who would take him at his salary? Steph? No. Klay? No. Draymond? No.
RE: 5. I spend too much time here and the The Athletic. There have been plenty of calls for Beal (though mostly earlier this season) and WIN NOW. Frankly, I don't want to see more short people (well, short in NBA terms) on the team, even if their arm length makes them 7 footers.
So here are the questions - what was it that turned Klay from "meh" to Superman from time to time? Any chance that sitting the last two years will be the thing that releases Klay from his self-imposed limits? Me, I'm counting on Klay being as delightful as ever, with a heightened passion for dominating.
1. Shooting 35% from three does not make a player “inefficient.” Beal’s true shooting % (the actual measure of his points scored per possession used) is .596 — slightly more efficient than Klay has been over his career, on higher usage.
2. Fair point on “ball dominant” based on his USG, but Beal’s also an excellent passer.who has shown he can play within a team concept, and be a successful second banana.
3. Again, there is no mechanism by which Beal would significantly add to the team’s luxury tax, since he could not be acquired without sending off Wiggins, Green, Thompson, or Curry — all of whom, as you note, are highly unlikely to be traded for Beal. Which leads to 4:
4. No one but you is talking about Beal anymore, except in the context of “guy Steph needs to beat for the scoring title.” He hasn’t been a discussion as a trade target on this site or any other Warriors site in months, or roughly since it became clear that (a) the Wiz love him and are playing great with him; and (b) the Warriors love Wiggins and are playing great with him.
There are enough interesting debates to have about this team going forward that don’t involve dredging up old retired straw men from the past. Pretty sure no one in Dub Nation wants to trade Steph to pair Monta Ellis with a “real PG,” either?
Some truth bombs there. Although I have to admit to giving myself whiplash between the idea of running it back with Klay, and trading for veteran help (picks + wiggs - not advocating for JW trade unless it’s for Giannis, likelihood = 0%). But Wiggs has been looking really nice and I can’t help wonder what that looks like as a third scoring option??
So, I continue to flip flop my way between every high (nuggets win) to every devastating loss (Mavs/Atlanta). Thank goodness I’m not a GM. I fulfill the role of emotionally charged supporter far better.
I can’t see wiggins’ trade value being as much as he produces... he’s prob still considered a negative value contract. For that, I don’t think we can realistically get BETTER by trading him.
Agreed. I doubt Wiggins value has increased all that much with us. He's shown to be a useful player but he's still getting paid like crazy. He still doesn't produce nearly enough to warrant that contract.
How lucky are we to have had three home-grown draft picks - Steph, Klay, Draymond - as the core for so long? If I was Commissioner, or negotiating for the owners, I would have reduced penalties in the Luxury tax for drafted players. Teams should not be penalized for good/lucky drafting and creating organizations where people want to stay.
I'm enjoying the ride, and giving thanks for being able to watch and laugh with the Entertainer and Joyful Man at his ridiculous stupendousness.
Word
Excellent article again, Daniel!!
Thank you Dilly!
If Beal doesn't play the rest of the season, Steph would have to score 99 points in the final 4 games (24.75 ppg) to take the scoring title. Seems quite likely at this stage - he might be able to get that done in 3 games (or possibly even 2 if he explodes against the Jazz and Suns).
Resting might make it easier, certainly if Beal isn’t playing.
Yes - If Steph missed one game, he'd only need 67 points (22.3 ppg) to clinch the title. Worst case scenario is that he'd play all four games but fewer minutes (~24) in the final two. Don't think Kerr would let this happen. We'll have a better idea after the Utah game tomorrow - if he gets 40 there, then he'd only need 59 in the final 3 games or 27 in two games if he sat one out. Much better chance of him getting his average up to 32 than losing out on the scoring title.
TWolves are leading by 43 points over the Magic with seven minutes left in the third....
I guess this is what happens when one team desperately wants to win and one team desperately wants to lose
Glad they took care of business against OKC and love that Curry is in full scoring title or bust mode. Curious if they can split or better the two games against the top of the West.
Just imagine how good the Warrior defense would be if they had a legit rim protector behind Draymond. The Warriors have an elite set of defensive wings and Looney is great at playing switching defense but adding a Myles Turner type behind Draymond would put them in contention for the best defense in the league.
Definitely curious to see what happens with Indiana (and the Minny pick), they could be a prime trade partner with guys like Brogdon and Turner (and perhaps Warren) who would fit very well next to Curry and Draymond.
Give me Turner and Brogdon for Wiseman, Paschall and the Minnesota pick. Really risking the future but would put the Warriors right back into legit title contention
I'd do that right now, and I'd throw in our own 2021 pick, Oubre in a sign-and-trade if he agrees, and whatever else is needed. I'd consider Wiggins but it'd be tough.
Is it really risking the future when Turner is 25 and Brogon is 28?
I do that deal in heartbeat. Does Indiana?
Edit: and yeah, as you note, the $$$ don’t add up. We’d need to include a whole bunch more salary. Basically, Wiggins, and that makes it a lot tougher for me.
Could an Oubre sign and trade make the money add up? It would basically be cashing the last of our trade chips in Wiseman, Minn pick, and Paschall. But it would probably be worth it.
And let's not forget that Wiggins is still only 26. He's really embraced his role this year as a second option on offense and as a stopper of top opponents on D. I remember Myers talking about how much better a positional fit Wiggins was when the DLo trade was made, and Wiggins has made that clear through his play this year. Starting every game this season is also a big plus.
I'm coming to the conclusion that KO's playing style is not conducive to winning. He's an amazing raw talent but as a high usage/poor efficiency shooter he's taking away opportunities for other players. Reminds me a bit of Westbrook (KO's not as talented but also physically gifted) - he'll fill the highlight reel but can easily shoot his team right out of games. If we can find a way to get something for him in a deal (even if we're just absorbing salary that we can use down the road) rather than lose him outright, I'd be thrilled.
Oh yeah, the $ part probably doesn't add up. Whatever. I'm turning on forced accept trade.
I really want Myles Turner. He's not the greatest rebounder but he's an elite rim protector and can stretch the floor. He's also still pretty young
Wiseman and a the pick Will work for Turner only. And Indiana is imploding. Turner is not only is an elite defensive center but also can space the floor Next to draymond..a dream
How do you figure that works? Turner makes 18 million, Wiseman makes half that.
well a 4 pick will make around 6 mill plus wise 9..
Why does Indiana want Wiseman when their one de facto franchise player (Sabonis) plays the same position?
Sabonis doesnt play all his minutes at the 5. Also the prize here is the 4 pick wiseman is just a nice asset.
I’d love Turner. I’d love lots of players. What are we sending Indiana?
As you said above we'd have to send wiggins as a part of it and that does make it harder for me as well
Can we sign and trade oubre?
Yeah. But receiving team would be hardcapped. So essentially have a find trade partner where Oubre wants to go and team is open to be hard capped for a season like we did.
And a team that doesn't have the cap space to sign him outright and not give us anything.
Then again
Steph-Klay-Oubre-Dray-Myles with Brogdon off the bench
Will be way better than
Steph-Klay-Wiggins-Dray-Wiseman
Steph-Klay-Oubre-Dray-Myles + Brogdon may have been the best team in the NBA this season, especially with the Lakers and Nets banged up.
This is the key for me. I like Wiggins but I do think trading Wiggins and re-signing Oubre is better for the team long term than keeping Wiggins and losing Oubre for nothing. Perhaps Oubre really is planning on re-signing and coming off the bench though, that's something we as fans can't know. But this would offer him a starting spot. Perhaps a year from now you'd have to trade Oubre or Brogdon if Brogdon hates coming off the bench, but so be it imo, at least for next year they'd be awesome. And who knows, Brogdon has gotten paid and is 28, maybe he'd be more okay with that role than Oubre.
That team is extremely well balanced imo. They say Turner's biggest weakness is rebounding so having Oubre (and Curry) next to him along with Draymond would be perfect for him. Oubre and Brogdon can guard PGs which allows Klay to transition to guarding wings post-injury. Turner's spacing complements Draymond's lack of spacing. Brogdon gives them another ballhandler/passer/shooter who can make opponents pay for blitzing Curry and can be plugged in as the backup PG. Oubre/Draymond/Turner(/hopefully Klay) would wreak havoc defensively. And Brogdon could easily start on back to backs when Klay is resting.
Plus, the closing lineup is Curry/Brogdon/Klay/Oubre/Draymond. That's championship worthy imo.
Oubre could leave anyway, there's no guarantee he won't get an offer he can't refuse somewhere else.
You know, if only the Warriors added one more sharpshooting wing and an athletic young big man, they'd have a complete team. Anyone know where we might find such players?
Lmao
Klay Thompson and Marquess Chriss!
I hope they can find these mysterious players this offseason, and I hope the athletic young big man is better than replacement level!
Here's some food for thought for the "what have you done for me lately?" crowd:
- Probable starting center hurt, misses the entire season
- All-star shooting guard hurt, misses the entire season
- Developing center hurt, misses the end of the season
- Developing power forward hurt, misses half the season
- Well-regarded shooting guard obtained to short up lineup, misses the tail end of the season
- Light-em-up (sometimes) shooting guard out with Covid after being vaccinated
But still, yeah, Bob sucks, it's Bob's fault. From people who have no idea what constraints he's operating under from his management.
It's not what they didn't do. But rather what they are doing - saving money on the margins. They have two open rosters where Austin Rivers kind of player would have won us few more close games. Those extra wins would mean #5 or #6 seed and Steph getting MVP and having a much needed rest before heading to Playoffs.
So yeah, let's just save money on the margins. Who cares about Playins/Playoffs anyways! /s/.
And lose their first rounder in the draft? The team is walking the tightrope (so far) much better than following your advice.
I will take Steph getting MVP than getting a non-lottery pick.
Developing center also missed part of the middle of the season (wrist), not to mention the preseason.
All-everything guard missed eight games during the season, during which the Warriors went 1-7. During Curry's prime!
Myers sucks. Wasted season. Got the team to the finals 5x in a row, but I guess he's washed.
Myers was smart back then. All he had to do was listen to Jerry West 😀
People who don’t blame Myers just don’t have enough imagination. In hindsight, every GM could do better. Myers could have drafted LaMelo. He could have supposedly traded Oubre for Lonzo. Perhaps he could have traded for a vet. Gafford was a late pick up that has helped Washington at the Center position. Derrick Rose has helped the Knicks immensely.
Instead, Myers used the number 2 pick on the center position, which does not fit Kerr’s system. Also, a developmental project is not something you want during Curry’s prime.
My complaint on Myers is he is not picking players that mesh well with Steph. Oubre is not a good enough 3 point shooter to play on this team. JTA is better than Oubre in Kerr’s system, so good for Myers for getting JTA. Getting bodies with only a few games left in the season is weak. They should have done it sooner. It will take too long to integrate Bell back into the line up.
Oh well, just wasting a year of Curry’s prime.
In three years, I think Wiseman's gonna be a Embiid-like monster with a strong three ball and the ability to protect the rim. Yes, he could be a bust, but I like his apparent work ethic and he does have phenomenal athletic skills. If you keep him around Steph, Dray, Klay, Loon, and JTA, he'll learn the game the right way. I'd be pretty sad to see him beat up on the Dubs on another club if we give up on him too soon.
Much more likely that Wiseman is Miles Turner in 5 years than Embiid in 3 years. There are literally a thousand different ways for a talented young big to *not* turn into Joel Embiid, and that's excluding injury.
Plis wiseman wont be embid. Not even close.
He doesnt know how to play the game and Next Year he Will hurt us more than help the team.
Lotto numbers, plz.
Also, your caps key needs help.
I agree with you that he'll probably take 3 years to be a productive player, and has an Embiid like ceiling, but that timeline just doesn't mesh with Curry's (second) prime. LaMelo probably has a similar ceiling, and is ready to play in the NBA right now, although I won't pretend I was clamoring for LaMelo at draft time, I would love to see what our offers were to trade down, and I would love to see Haliburton playing shooting guard and backup point for this team.
I am not sure Kerr is the right coach and this is the right system for Wiseman for optimizing his talents. Wiseman best skill is pick and roll and that is the opposite of what the Dubs do. Besides, our best center has always been Draymond. I hope I am wrong and Wiseman develops into the next AD. However, it will take years to find out. Curry is in his prime, the Dubs should not waste something so precious.
No. No. No. Wiseman is going to be the bigger and better Antetokounmpo. Forget Embid.
Time to blame Rick Celebrini instead of Bob Myers?
Celebrini is definitely star crossed at the very least.
Celebrini, Myers, Kerr, and the Illuminati. Also Trump and Biden and the Trilateral commission.
It's Rob Manfred's fault. It just is. And if it isn't, other stuff is, so blame him anyway.