Yeah. but they were blowing good open shots....shot only 30 percent if you take DONOVAN out....only had 8 TOs to Boston's 11....sometime the ball does not go in....GARLAND was day and night through the 1st 3 qrs, and suddenly, he was making a few shots in 4th...every long rebound bounced Boston's way also....Boston shot 50 percent....no way you beat them if you don't make your open shots...No doubt, CAVALIERS are not in BOSTON'S level; need their best game to have a shot at beating them; which they have done already. As for defense, you do not come back from down 23 to down 7 vs Boston if you do not get stops. BOSTON REALLY IS THE CLASS OF THE LEAGUE. EXPERIENCED, BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE. Tonight, Holiday also came through for them, as if they did not have enough weapons...lol...Both teams are missing their big men, but, Horford is a seasoned vet who knows the score; reminds me a bit of us when we had West and even DeAndre in the interior/rim and rounding out our potent scorers. Still. if 2-3 shots had dropped for the CAVS, we'd be having a different conversation; they had the opportunities and were moving the ball around well....they were competitive in spite of it all, but, very unfortunate tonight. That is the way the ball bounces sometimes....
I don't think MVP count is the only measure of all time greatness, so I disagree with the premise.
Pettit played in a very different era; in his day he was one of the very best. It makes no sense to criticize him because of what came later. Rose deserved his MVP; he was terrific that year but got injured after that and was never the same. Moses Malone was a freaking beast. Top 9, nah, but he earned those MVP trophies. I personally don't think Kawhi earned more than 1, as good as he is. Shaq probably did but we'd have to go year by year and see who won those awards and compare.
Still kinda odd unless the argument is that the players who won the MVPs didn't deserve to win them. Otherwise, what does "worse than their MVP count" even mean? And how is there a valid comparison with players who didn't win MVPs or just won one of them in different years and even different eras?
I was just comparing players' MVP counts to their all time greatness. DFiB is correct. Nothing to do with if they deserved those awards the year they got them.
It's only as valid as the article title I suppose, comparing Jokic's MVP count to Curry's MVP count.
Add Harden to your list of worse than their MVP count....Westbrook was 125th in the league in FG shooting efficiency when he won his; Hardly was 68th...Speaking of shooting, DONOVAN is KILLING it tonight for the CAVS; UNFORTUNATELY, the rest of his teammates are KLANKING good looks...MITCHELL IS AT 69.2 PERCENT 9-13 AT THE HALF; the ENTIRE rest of his team is 11-40....
Jokic isn't worse than Curry. He literally has superior all-around numbers. Statistically, it's not even an argument of who is better. The only thing Curry has over Jokic is rings, and he has more rings because he's played with better players. Prime Klay Thompson is the rough equivalent of Jamal Murray, prime Draymond was better than Aaron Gordon (better all-around player), and prime KD was better than MPJ. The GSW bench was better than Jokic' bench too.
The visual of Jokic sitting by himself on the benches as the final pick of 'all star team lebron' says it all to me. Any other mf in the nba would be salty ad infinitum. The Joker totally ignored this slight and never looked back. Massive respect.
Totally agree. He was a good but weird player with the Cavs, bad with the Celtics and truly a team-wrecker with the Nets. Quite impressed with him with the Mavs.
I'm hating the crap calls that SGA is routinely getting. He's one of the few guys that seems like is still getting these type of calls after the change of focus in reffing.
Sga had two elbows to the face - he literally pushes off on a large number of his offensive plays but gets away with it very often - refs did not buy it in the 4th
Anything I could say would need to be bleeped out. No one ever said life was fair. All these things are a bit (to a lot political).
We know what we know. I think the proof is the adoration Steph gets everywhere. He is a gentleman, on and off the court and no matter how nice or not nice the Joker is ---he's no King of hearts. Steph is.
This is the contrast I can least sink my teeth into. Steph is adored, but Jokic seems also like a lovely guy. We might find areas of personality to quibble with when thinking of other elite personalities, but Jokic, Steph, Giannis all seem quite nice.
You’re saying that like he knew that shove would have that effect. Yes, it was a hard shove, but it’s not like he said, “I’m gonna fuck up this guy’s neck!” He was merely reacting to a cheap shot from Morris.
He hit someone hard enough to really mess up his neck. Nice people don’t really do that… did Morris deserve something coming back? Sure. Do lovely guys body check someone in the back? No.
You're saying that because Markieff Morris slammed Jokic and Jokic slammed him back, you are ready to declare Jokic not a nice person? That's how little it takes in your book, against everything else we know about Jokic over many years?
So he deserved to have his neck broke? Eye for an eye is a thing “nice people” do? in this case, frankly, a broken neck for bruised rib isn’t remotely even.
I'm going to ignore the Fitz haters and just ask this: How does Hubie Brown have a job? I literally need to mute when he speaks. He's utterly terrible and has been employed doing this for forty years.
Let's try this: Just once, listen to what he's actually saying. Jot it down. If you read it, it would be inchorent.
It's usually something like, "Alright. Now. Big thing here [Doncic passes to Kyrie for a three] you're an Oklahoma fan, there you go, that's a nice shot by Luka, the main thing is: alright, now, you're asking 'why is OKC letting him?' [Dunk by SGA on the other end] There ya go. He got free -- the, you're Jason Kidd, you have to be thinking about pressure, and the main thing -- no easy baskets [time out, almost heading to commercial] you can see, alright, you're Dallas, you have to be thinking stops. You cannot let them score on you in this [commercial commences]
And this was the way he did it thirty years ago, too. I find it agonizing.
Let's try this: Just once, listen to what he's actually saying. Jot it down. If you read it, it would be inchorent.
It's usually something like, "Alright. Now. Big thing here [Doncic passes to Kyrie for a three] you're an Oklahoma fan, there you go, that's a nice shot by Luka, the main thing is: alright, now, you're asking 'why is OKC letting him?' [Dunk by SGA on the other end] There ya go. He got free -- the, you're Jason Kidd, you have to be thinking about pressure, and the main thing -- no easy baskets [time out, almost heading to commercial] you can see, alright, you're Dallas, you have to be thinking stops. You cannot let them score on you in this [commercial commences]
And this was the way he did it thirty years ago, too. I find it agonizing.
Asher the guy is well liked by a lot of people and national networks fire people that get bad ratings. He definitely is different than any other announcer.
Some people love kimchi and some people hate it, right?
I often watch games with no sound to not bother my wife.
I thought it was awesome that Kyrie made a huge effort to go up and shake Huble’s hand the other night.
The better question is why do most national broadcasters have their job? Breen is an all-timer, Harlan is alright, and I dig Redick for the most part. But after that...woof
You’re underrating quite a few PxP people like Ian Eagle, Brian Anderson. I like Spiro Dedes and Andrew Catalon as up and comers. Jim Spanarkel, Eagle’s often teammate with Eagle, reminds me of Jim Barnett.
I'm also good with Pasch and with Richard Jefferson when he's just commenting not messing around too much. This doesn't seem like it should be so hard. There are a lot of people who know basketball and can speak fluent English in reasonably timely compelling ways.
I don't see a game in these Warriors less playoff
Forza Bologna andiamo di nuovo in Champions League dopo 60 anni!!!!
IF the CAVS pull this out with their horrid shooting, tip of the hat...
Boston's defense is smothering them.
Yep. but they've been blowing good shots all game....
That's what good defense does to you. Even if you get a good shot off, you rush them because you might think there's a defender close to you.
Yeah. but they were blowing good open shots....shot only 30 percent if you take DONOVAN out....only had 8 TOs to Boston's 11....sometime the ball does not go in....GARLAND was day and night through the 1st 3 qrs, and suddenly, he was making a few shots in 4th...every long rebound bounced Boston's way also....Boston shot 50 percent....no way you beat them if you don't make your open shots...No doubt, CAVALIERS are not in BOSTON'S level; need their best game to have a shot at beating them; which they have done already. As for defense, you do not come back from down 23 to down 7 vs Boston if you do not get stops. BOSTON REALLY IS THE CLASS OF THE LEAGUE. EXPERIENCED, BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE. Tonight, Holiday also came through for them, as if they did not have enough weapons...lol...Both teams are missing their big men, but, Horford is a seasoned vet who knows the score; reminds me a bit of us when we had West and even DeAndre in the interior/rim and rounding out our potent scorers. Still. if 2-3 shots had dropped for the CAVS, we'd be having a different conversation; they had the opportunities and were moving the ball around well....they were competitive in spite of it all, but, very unfortunate tonight. That is the way the ball bounces sometimes....
Players worse than their MVP count:
(3) Moses Malone, (3) Jokic, (2) Pettit, (1)Westbrook, (1) Rose
I don't consider Jokic and Moses Malone top 9 players all time. Don't consider Pettit top 10. Westbrook and Rose were mistakes.
Players better than their MVP count:
(0) Jerry West, (0) Kawhi, (1) Shaq, (1) Kobe, (0) Wade
(2) Steve Nash?
I think you are seriously not remembering Moses and Pettit and how good they were.
I'm not saying they are not great, I'm just saying Shaq/Kobe/Jerry West are better and have less MVPs.
Dale Murphy (2)
I don't think MVP count is the only measure of all time greatness, so I disagree with the premise.
Pettit played in a very different era; in his day he was one of the very best. It makes no sense to criticize him because of what came later. Rose deserved his MVP; he was terrific that year but got injured after that and was never the same. Moses Malone was a freaking beast. Top 9, nah, but he earned those MVP trophies. I personally don't think Kawhi earned more than 1, as good as he is. Shaq probably did but we'd have to go year by year and see who won those awards and compare.
I think the premise is narrowly:
> Players worse than their MVP count
And not about anything else…
Still kinda odd unless the argument is that the players who won the MVPs didn't deserve to win them. Otherwise, what does "worse than their MVP count" even mean? And how is there a valid comparison with players who didn't win MVPs or just won one of them in different years and even different eras?
I was just comparing players' MVP counts to their all time greatness. DFiB is correct. Nothing to do with if they deserved those awards the year they got them.
It's only as valid as the article title I suppose, comparing Jokic's MVP count to Curry's MVP count.
Add Harden to your list of worse than their MVP count....Westbrook was 125th in the league in FG shooting efficiency when he won his; Hardly was 68th...Speaking of shooting, DONOVAN is KILLING it tonight for the CAVS; UNFORTUNATELY, the rest of his teammates are KLANKING good looks...MITCHELL IS AT 69.2 PERCENT 9-13 AT THE HALF; the ENTIRE rest of his team is 11-40....
Celtics up by 21 in the 3rd - looking rough for Celtics.
lol
Steph also would be better then his MVP count?
Curry has 2 MVPs, putting him in the top 15. I listed 5 of those players I'd drop below Curry; Moses Malone, Jokic, Pettit, Westbrook, Rose.
Basketbum and Attila disagreed with that idea.
Jokic isn't worse than Curry. He literally has superior all-around numbers. Statistically, it's not even an argument of who is better. The only thing Curry has over Jokic is rings, and he has more rings because he's played with better players. Prime Klay Thompson is the rough equivalent of Jamal Murray, prime Draymond was better than Aaron Gordon (better all-around player), and prime KD was better than MPJ. The GSW bench was better than Jokic' bench too.
lol
The visual of Jokic sitting by himself on the benches as the final pick of 'all star team lebron' says it all to me. Any other mf in the nba would be salty ad infinitum. The Joker totally ignored this slight and never looked back. Massive respect.
Mavs beat the Thunder 105-101 and go up 2-1 in the series.
Lively got half of the Mavs FTAs.
Edit: Apparently, OKC was doing a hack-a-Lively. I'm not sure if that was a good strategy since Lively made 8/12 FTs in the game.
I really love the way that Irving plays with the Mavericks. Feels like this is the most he's ever bought into being on an NBA team tbh.
2nd most. Unfortunately.
Totally agree. He was a good but weird player with the Cavs, bad with the Celtics and truly a team-wrecker with the Nets. Quite impressed with him with the Mavs.
Totally agree...esp his effort on D. Maybe Kidd is having an effect.
I'm hating the crap calls that SGA is routinely getting. He's one of the few guys that seems like is still getting these type of calls after the change of focus in reffing.
Sga had two elbows to the face - he literally pushes off on a large number of his offensive plays but gets away with it very often - refs did not buy it in the 4th
hard to like him with the way he throws himself into defenders & flails
Maybe he’s truly elite at it?
Anything I could say would need to be bleeped out. No one ever said life was fair. All these things are a bit (to a lot political).
We know what we know. I think the proof is the adoration Steph gets everywhere. He is a gentleman, on and off the court and no matter how nice or not nice the Joker is ---he's no King of hearts. Steph is.
This is the contrast I can least sink my teeth into. Steph is adored, but Jokic seems also like a lovely guy. We might find areas of personality to quibble with when thinking of other elite personalities, but Jokic, Steph, Giannis all seem quite nice.
Steph ain’t never messed up someone’s neck for 4m
You’re saying that like he knew that shove would have that effect. Yes, it was a hard shove, but it’s not like he said, “I’m gonna fuck up this guy’s neck!” He was merely reacting to a cheap shot from Morris.
He hit someone hard enough to really mess up his neck. Nice people don’t really do that… did Morris deserve something coming back? Sure. Do lovely guys body check someone in the back? No.
True, and it doesn't seem like he ever would.
Jokic nailed Morris. But Morris started it and had it coming IMO. YMMV.
People from the former Yugoslavia have grudges that last for 500 years. He's not someone to cheap-shot, and many people feel that Morris earned it.
This sounds like you're making a point of some sort but I don't know what it is.
Jokic, the nice guy, almost broke a guys neck… that’s not all that nice…
You're saying that because Markieff Morris slammed Jokic and Jokic slammed him back, you are ready to declare Jokic not a nice person? That's how little it takes in your book, against everything else we know about Jokic over many years?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn7ZgCW9SqI
So he deserved to have his neck broke? Eye for an eye is a thing “nice people” do? in this case, frankly, a broken neck for bruised rib isn’t remotely even.
And the Morris brothers are POS and notorious dirty players. No players defended them outside of the Heat lol
Agreed. The best player often doesn't win. That's life.
I'm going to ignore the Fitz haters and just ask this: How does Hubie Brown have a job? I literally need to mute when he speaks. He's utterly terrible and has been employed doing this for forty years.
I love the dude ... to each his own. Should he retire? Sure, but it will be a sad day when he does, to me.
Let's try this: Just once, listen to what he's actually saying. Jot it down. If you read it, it would be inchorent.
It's usually something like, "Alright. Now. Big thing here [Doncic passes to Kyrie for a three] you're an Oklahoma fan, there you go, that's a nice shot by Luka, the main thing is: alright, now, you're asking 'why is OKC letting him?' [Dunk by SGA on the other end] There ya go. He got free -- the, you're Jason Kidd, you have to be thinking about pressure, and the main thing -- no easy baskets [time out, almost heading to commercial] you can see, alright, you're Dallas, you have to be thinking stops. You cannot let them score on you in this [commercial commences]
And this was the way he did it thirty years ago, too. I find it agonizing.
You must have loved Chris Webber. :)
I cannot believe Hubble is 90 and still broadcasting.
As an old guy myself I have the utmost respect.
I have not heard him the last couple of years for more than a few minutes so I can’t comment on his current ability as a broadcaster.
I do know however that the man is extremely knowledgeable about hooos.
90! Pretty impressive like him or not.
Let's try this: Just once, listen to what he's actually saying. Jot it down. If you read it, it would be inchorent.
It's usually something like, "Alright. Now. Big thing here [Doncic passes to Kyrie for a three] you're an Oklahoma fan, there you go, that's a nice shot by Luka, the main thing is: alright, now, you're asking 'why is OKC letting him?' [Dunk by SGA on the other end] There ya go. He got free -- the, you're Jason Kidd, you have to be thinking about pressure, and the main thing -- no easy baskets [time out, almost heading to commercial] you can see, alright, you're Dallas, you have to be thinking stops. You cannot let them score on you in this [commercial commences]
And this was the way he did it thirty years ago, too. I find it agonizing.
Asher the guy is well liked by a lot of people and national networks fire people that get bad ratings. He definitely is different than any other announcer.
Some people love kimchi and some people hate it, right?
I often watch games with no sound to not bother my wife.
I thought it was awesome that Kyrie made a huge effort to go up and shake Huble’s hand the other night.
Why do you hate old people?
LOL
The better question is why do most national broadcasters have their job? Breen is an all-timer, Harlan is alright, and I dig Redick for the most part. But after that...woof
You’re underrating quite a few PxP people like Ian Eagle, Brian Anderson. I like Spiro Dedes and Andrew Catalon as up and comers. Jim Spanarkel, Eagle’s often teammate with Eagle, reminds me of Jim Barnett.
I'm also good with Pasch and with Richard Jefferson when he's just commenting not messing around too much. This doesn't seem like it should be so hard. There are a lot of people who know basketball and can speak fluent English in reasonably timely compelling ways.
RJ can be some fun, yea
If this is a serious piece, it is at best silly, at worst dumb.
Yep.
He rebounds at a high level.
Defends the paint adequately.
Is an absolutely elite passer whose team is 100% dependant on.
He scores when he needs to at a high level.
He is a rare guy who truly is the most valuable to his team in my opinion.
I am also certain he sets the team chemistry as well.
The Joker is no joke.