Can someone clarify how much formal practice is required for rookies between now and begining of training camp.is it all up to indvidual players or are there team practices for the younger players.
Yeah I'm glad he won. I think the Barry Hunter team has done him a lot of good as opposed to having his dad be his trainer. Navarrete is just a bad match-up for him but it's possible he moves up in the near future, freeing up a belt.
So Charles Barkley's interest in signing a golf deal with LIV tour has been called into question because of its ties to the Saudi government. His reply is "..they are making up words, like blood money and sportswashing.'... We have all taken blood money, and we all have sportswashed something... If you are in pro sports, you are taking some type of money from not a great cause."
This cuts to the core of an ongoing problem in sports, which is that in order to succeed, the league partners with entities that someone somewhere will find objectionable. So one is tempted on the one hand to say that all partnerships and sponsorships are in some way a problem, therefore let's not worry about it.
On the other hand, some surely are worse than others, so one is tempted to say: partner with the more acceptable ones but not the deeply objectionable. But how is one to judge? This brings to mind China partnerships as one issue, but there are many others. And it also brings to mind the sports/politics nexus, which is always complicated. Thoughts?
The main reason I side with Chuck on this is: Saudis pay hundreds of billions of dollars to the US for WEAPONS, and we are supposed to be outraged that they want to pay our GOLFERS? That, and the fact we are totally fine with China sponsoring anything and everything (including Klay). It feels like the outrage is just being drummed up by the PGA, who are terrified.
It's complicated. President Biden visited Saudi Arabia this past week hoping to convince them to increase oil production to moderate the global fuel price rises. He had previously stated he was going to treat them as a pariah. He was met at the airport by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who has been linked to the murder of Saudi expatriate journalist and American citizen Jamal Khashoggi. It's easy to resolve to not deal with people (or nations) until you want something from them. Whether Biden did the right thing is certainly debatable.
However, sports are far less consequential than the global oil supply. Chuck does not need the Saudis. He just wants the money.
I appreciate you bringing this up, and in a genuine and open, nuanced manner.
This reminds me of my college advisors worry of the trend of moral relativism “as long ad i’m left to do what o want to do, who am i to judge what someone else decides to do?”
Personally I find it pretty hard to stomach concentrated wealth - it’s at the root of so many of our current ills.
But Saudi Arabia, come on, it’s a brutal dictatorship. Just saying “any money coming from anywhere is attached to something morally questionable” is another way of saying you’ve been totally corrupted by the influence of money, it’s a sad logic for taking money from a blatantly terrible horrific oppressive dictator.
The NBA’s inability to criticize The Chinese government’s gross crimes against humanity is pretty sad too.
Thanks for asking. Indeed, the term "moral relativism" came into my mind as soon as I read the article. I personally support athletes and their leagues embracing politics. If they want to boycott a sponsor or a state, or support another, based on their politics, more power to them. I may not choose the same as they would, but I don't think one has to abandon one's politics because "Republicans buy shoes too," as MJ once said. In sports and in the rest of life it's a personal decision as to what constitutes an offense that can be tolerated, and what offenses cannot. I would also say that some decisions are tougher than others. Barkley doesn't need another penny, and if he does can certainly find more wholesome sponsors. But if you talk about someone raised in significant poverty, toiling away in the G-League, offered a contract in let's say Turkey: well, Turkey has done some terrible things. As far as I know, so have all countries. But I would be less inclined to judge the athlete accepting the Turkish contract because of the individual's situation. It's another case with the NBA as a whole. It does well as a league and can afford to be more picky. I would support the players and owners forming an ethics board that establishes general guidelines in accordance with member values, then reviews each item case by case.
He’s not entirely wrong. But not restricted to sports and where are your personal limits? Would Barkley be OK with the family who sponsored 9/11, but not want to hang out with someone who’s responsible for child trafficking?
One might say everything is political. Then:
Russia and Brittney Griner. WNBA players returning there soon? Co-operation with several other totalitarian states. China and Hong Kong….oops. Human rights abominations and shoe (and other deals) deals in China. Whose shoes (inter Alia) don’t come from China?
Let’s not forget sports funding and America’s politically motivated oligarchs.
One statement …NBA champs not going to visit overtly racist US president
Irony…LeBron co-opting Fox political rhetoric by patenting..shut up and dribble!
And all of us who go to games, buy merch, or even, really, watch the games on TV and follow ad driven media content, are complicit in all of this...so whaddya gonna do? For me the Chinese silencing of any possibility of criticism about their treatment of the Uighurs, besides anything else they are up to, and there is clearly a *lot* of anything else, is the worst complicity in which we all participate. The World Cup in Qatar thing is another hurdle in my sporting 'verse...since I don't care about golf, I haven't bothered to get very informed about the LIV tour to be honest. I do worry about it as my personal integrity is important to me. Life is a bitch, eh?
Life is ... a problem, true. But I think we're supposed to do something about it. Not that you're saying we shouldn't. It's complex and difficult to decide on such matters, but I do believe in making the effort; Barkley is effectively saying "I don't feel like thinking about it," which I can't support.
Okay then, I for one, are certainly open to suggestions as to what we "do something about it" might be. I have never purchased any sort of product emanating from the Apple corporation for many reasons, not the least of which is their early and ongoing cooperation with the Chinese government and the incredible hypocrisy of their CEO and management team on all humanitarian (including LGBTQ stuff) issues when it intersects with the two ultimate values: profit and market share. Do you remember the news reports of the Chinese Apple workers jumping off factory roofs over there due to overwork? Are you under the impression anything has changed? So there is one possibility. We can move on to any product arena you like; your turn.
I would support the players and owners forming an ethics board that establishes general guidelines in accordance with member values, then reviews each item case by case.
We’re one of the 400 people that owns 80% of national wealth? We are mucj closer to each other , those earning $2/ day all the way someone making 20 million dollars than to a “billionaire”, there are some quite good videos out there (when occupy was in full swing) that described really well just how much the .001% “own”, I have to rewatch and re-read, it is so massive it is difficult (for me) to conceptualize it. The concentration is way beyond anything that has ever existed in human history (to our knowledge), waaaay beyond feudal systems, waaay beyond kings of west africa of central and south america, or emperors of china, its so massive (the sheer amount pf concentrated wealth compared to the rest of us) we don’t even really have a name for it: maybe aristocracy or oligarchy… maybe…
High-level passers like TWill are exactly what you want in this system, and why I desperately wanted Haliburton and Wagner in their respective drafts. The defense for TWill may take a while to come along (if ever), but you're gonna have a development project when talking about undrafted guys on these contracts. Looking forward to seeint TWill diming up cutters and whipping skip passes!
Wow, with Gui apparently coming in for camp or at least to the SC Dubs, I'm officially stoked.
Seems like the only outstanding questions are:
1. Dre or no Dre.
2. After that, which of McClung, T Williams, Quindarry, Quinones (or remote possibility, Gui) get the 14th spot ( edit: assuming Andre retires) and the 2-ways. I realize officially it's Quinones and Quindarry in the 2-ways as of now, but I'm guessing the deck may get reshuffled a bit by the end of camp.
Article on Trevion moving to 6th Man for Purdue to let Zach Edey start, despite TW entering as all-Big Ten and preseason all-American. Good quotes from TW.
—
“If you’re worrying about playing time and you’re worrying about stats, you’re worrying about the wrong thing. If Purdue wins, that’s all that matters.”
A message for the Nets: sorry, deeply sorry to have tried to cheat you by offering two fiascoes like Wiggins and Poole for KD. We’ll keep them, don’t worry. And you keep the champ… the finals MVP… no, the MVP… ah sorry, I can’t remember exactly what title led you KD to. Please help my failing memory.
A dedication to JaMichal Green. I remember you. You played for those vitriolic, hellbound, thousand times (in 48’) damned Los Angeles Clippers that made me (and I’m sure most of you), literally pee our pants, with the nastiest comeback ever in the history of playoffs (If memory doesn’t fail me, 31 points cb, with 85 points in the second half). And you shot 70% TS in that soon to forget game.
No, I’m cool, I don’t hold a grudge against you.
I’m just happy that we don’t have to meet you as opponent. This year at least.
Actually, mine was a rhetorical figure called ‘antiphrasis’, used to transmit irony. Yeah, I’m no Donte nor Shakespeare, but I’m a poet myself :) would you believe?
Just watched the Trevion draft prep video. Some thoughts: big shout to people who make videos like that. I don't think I could watch all that footage and come to the same accurate descriptions of the strengths and weaknesses. I've watched a jillion hours of ball but as a fan not a scout. Which is why I liked Apricot's vids, which brought me here ... My comp on Trevion is that on offense he looks like it's 1978 and he wants to be the next Bill Walton. Amazing post passing and some nice McHale post moves. On defense he's ... not the next anybody at this rate. Some of his weak areas seem coachable, or a product of how Purdue played, like his pnr coverage. But some of it is either uncoachable, like subpar athleticism for the NBA; or can be improved, but we shall see, like outside shooting. But there's a system problem. To leverage what he does best, Trevion wants to go get post position and operate from there, which is admittedly a lot of fun to watch. Baby Jokic on some of those. Still, the Dubs are about man and ball movement, pace and space; not about someone parking in the post, except the occasional Shaun Livingstone, which was really a one on one move, not a pivot to pass out of as much. So if the Dubs actually wanted Trevion to be on the big club, they'd either have to minimize his best asset, maybe put him out at the three point line to help facilitate offense, or they'd have to change how their second squad operates and let him work out of the post, which seems unlikely. Then on defense, he needs a Draymond Transfusion, and I'm not holding my breath. He's got that Eric Paschall "I'm here for the offense" look. ...
Put Trevion at the elbow instead of low post and have him operate as the passing hub. Which is what we do with every big man who can pass. It’s not rocket science.
I really liked the Brad Miller comp on first glance, but I looked up his college numbers just to compare to Trevion and my god he was a beast of a scorer in college: 17.2 ppg with a TS% of .690 (!!!) and a FT% of 73% his senior year and a free throw rate of 84.4%. The big difference is that he came in really being able to shoot somewhat and we’ll have to see what Trevion can do with his jumper
Aside from the weight issue, how did young Dray look compared to young T today? Young T says he has always wanted to be on a team with lots of shooters (to pass to).
Random on Twitter last night says about Gui Santos returning to say farewell to his Brazilian team:
Well on Minas instagram he made a storie saying something like " i came to say thanks for yall(team/fans) believe in me, i hope yall still cheering for me even from Far away " and he was with a Golden State Warriors T shirt
Two Greens
Two Quins
Two (SEGABABA) Larry O'Brien trophies.
That's a sound logic - right? I am sticking to it no matter what purist logicians of you all say. Deal with it!
A six pack of Os (Loon, Poole, Moody)
Can someone clarify how much formal practice is required for rookies between now and begining of training camp.is it all up to indvidual players or are there team practices for the younger players.
IIRC teams aren’t allowed to hold practices during this period per collective bargaining. So you will see players organizing practices instead.
@Crusty
Kudos to Dogboe. I still think he’s two tiers below Navarrete. Gets hit and withers but kudos to him. That 9th round turned it back around for him.
Yeah I'm glad he won. I think the Barry Hunter team has done him a lot of good as opposed to having his dad be his trainer. Navarrete is just a bad match-up for him but it's possible he moves up in the near future, freeing up a belt.
Training camp is gearing up to be pretty exciting this year. What the heck.
I am already getting my popcorn ready for the medicals.
So Charles Barkley's interest in signing a golf deal with LIV tour has been called into question because of its ties to the Saudi government. His reply is "..they are making up words, like blood money and sportswashing.'... We have all taken blood money, and we all have sportswashed something... If you are in pro sports, you are taking some type of money from not a great cause."
This cuts to the core of an ongoing problem in sports, which is that in order to succeed, the league partners with entities that someone somewhere will find objectionable. So one is tempted on the one hand to say that all partnerships and sponsorships are in some way a problem, therefore let's not worry about it.
On the other hand, some surely are worse than others, so one is tempted to say: partner with the more acceptable ones but not the deeply objectionable. But how is one to judge? This brings to mind China partnerships as one issue, but there are many others. And it also brings to mind the sports/politics nexus, which is always complicated. Thoughts?
More info on Barkley: https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34276579/charles-barkley-calls-selective-outrage-liv-golf-amid-reported-interest-hire-him
The main reason I side with Chuck on this is: Saudis pay hundreds of billions of dollars to the US for WEAPONS, and we are supposed to be outraged that they want to pay our GOLFERS? That, and the fact we are totally fine with China sponsoring anything and everything (including Klay). It feels like the outrage is just being drummed up by the PGA, who are terrified.
It's complicated. President Biden visited Saudi Arabia this past week hoping to convince them to increase oil production to moderate the global fuel price rises. He had previously stated he was going to treat them as a pariah. He was met at the airport by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who has been linked to the murder of Saudi expatriate journalist and American citizen Jamal Khashoggi. It's easy to resolve to not deal with people (or nations) until you want something from them. Whether Biden did the right thing is certainly debatable.
However, sports are far less consequential than the global oil supply. Chuck does not need the Saudis. He just wants the money.
I prefer to sell them our golfers rather than our weapons.
I appreciate you bringing this up, and in a genuine and open, nuanced manner.
This reminds me of my college advisors worry of the trend of moral relativism “as long ad i’m left to do what o want to do, who am i to judge what someone else decides to do?”
Personally I find it pretty hard to stomach concentrated wealth - it’s at the root of so many of our current ills.
But Saudi Arabia, come on, it’s a brutal dictatorship. Just saying “any money coming from anywhere is attached to something morally questionable” is another way of saying you’ve been totally corrupted by the influence of money, it’s a sad logic for taking money from a blatantly terrible horrific oppressive dictator.
The NBA’s inability to criticize The Chinese government’s gross crimes against humanity is pretty sad too.
I liked and1’s response below.
What do you think asher?
Thanks for asking. Indeed, the term "moral relativism" came into my mind as soon as I read the article. I personally support athletes and their leagues embracing politics. If they want to boycott a sponsor or a state, or support another, based on their politics, more power to them. I may not choose the same as they would, but I don't think one has to abandon one's politics because "Republicans buy shoes too," as MJ once said. In sports and in the rest of life it's a personal decision as to what constitutes an offense that can be tolerated, and what offenses cannot. I would also say that some decisions are tougher than others. Barkley doesn't need another penny, and if he does can certainly find more wholesome sponsors. But if you talk about someone raised in significant poverty, toiling away in the G-League, offered a contract in let's say Turkey: well, Turkey has done some terrible things. As far as I know, so have all countries. But I would be less inclined to judge the athlete accepting the Turkish contract because of the individual's situation. It's another case with the NBA as a whole. It does well as a league and can afford to be more picky. I would support the players and owners forming an ethics board that establishes general guidelines in accordance with member values, then reviews each item case by case.
He’s not entirely wrong. But not restricted to sports and where are your personal limits? Would Barkley be OK with the family who sponsored 9/11, but not want to hang out with someone who’s responsible for child trafficking?
One might say everything is political. Then:
Russia and Brittney Griner. WNBA players returning there soon? Co-operation with several other totalitarian states. China and Hong Kong….oops. Human rights abominations and shoe (and other deals) deals in China. Whose shoes (inter Alia) don’t come from China?
Let’s not forget sports funding and America’s politically motivated oligarchs.
One statement …NBA champs not going to visit overtly racist US president
Irony…LeBron co-opting Fox political rhetoric by patenting..shut up and dribble!
.
And all of us who go to games, buy merch, or even, really, watch the games on TV and follow ad driven media content, are complicit in all of this...so whaddya gonna do? For me the Chinese silencing of any possibility of criticism about their treatment of the Uighurs, besides anything else they are up to, and there is clearly a *lot* of anything else, is the worst complicity in which we all participate. The World Cup in Qatar thing is another hurdle in my sporting 'verse...since I don't care about golf, I haven't bothered to get very informed about the LIV tour to be honest. I do worry about it as my personal integrity is important to me. Life is a bitch, eh?
Life is ... a problem, true. But I think we're supposed to do something about it. Not that you're saying we shouldn't. It's complex and difficult to decide on such matters, but I do believe in making the effort; Barkley is effectively saying "I don't feel like thinking about it," which I can't support.
Okay then, I for one, are certainly open to suggestions as to what we "do something about it" might be. I have never purchased any sort of product emanating from the Apple corporation for many reasons, not the least of which is their early and ongoing cooperation with the Chinese government and the incredible hypocrisy of their CEO and management team on all humanitarian (including LGBTQ stuff) issues when it intersects with the two ultimate values: profit and market share. Do you remember the news reports of the Chinese Apple workers jumping off factory roofs over there due to overwork? Are you under the impression anything has changed? So there is one possibility. We can move on to any product arena you like; your turn.
I would support the players and owners forming an ethics board that establishes general guidelines in accordance with member values, then reviews each item case by case.
Eat the rich
Too rich for my taste
A classic line, never ages.
We are the rich.
We’re one of the 400 people that owns 80% of national wealth? We are mucj closer to each other , those earning $2/ day all the way someone making 20 million dollars than to a “billionaire”, there are some quite good videos out there (when occupy was in full swing) that described really well just how much the .001% “own”, I have to rewatch and re-read, it is so massive it is difficult (for me) to conceptualize it. The concentration is way beyond anything that has ever existed in human history (to our knowledge), waaaay beyond feudal systems, waaay beyond kings of west africa of central and south america, or emperors of china, its so massive (the sheer amount pf concentrated wealth compared to the rest of us) we don’t even really have a name for it: maybe aristocracy or oligarchy… maybe…
Netflix, The Minions of Midas
💜
Their women are too skinny. Not enough meat there :)
Leaves a bad taste in my mouth😝
High-level passers like TWill are exactly what you want in this system, and why I desperately wanted Haliburton and Wagner in their respective drafts. The defense for TWill may take a while to come along (if ever), but you're gonna have a development project when talking about undrafted guys on these contracts. Looking forward to seeint TWill diming up cutters and whipping skip passes!
I think the plus just got put on that B.
Wow, with Gui apparently coming in for camp or at least to the SC Dubs, I'm officially stoked.
Seems like the only outstanding questions are:
1. Dre or no Dre.
2. After that, which of McClung, T Williams, Quindarry, Quinones (or remote possibility, Gui) get the 14th spot ( edit: assuming Andre retires) and the 2-ways. I realize officially it's Quinones and Quindarry in the 2-ways as of now, but I'm guessing the deck may get reshuffled a bit by the end of camp.
Epic Battle of the Qs
Maq MqQlung?
I’m liking curry with gui…..not butter
https://twitter.com/iconic_roy/status/1550648591361900545
Imagine being the DPOY and running from the smoke when it really matters
He did not impress me at all in the finals with his flopping & ass-curling. Fake toughness. A lot of talk and not much else.
Yeah he was getting smoked. I think he was injured though
And yet ,,, he was flopping wth no sign of injury.
Article on Trevion moving to 6th Man for Purdue to let Zach Edey start, despite TW entering as all-Big Ten and preseason all-American. Good quotes from TW.
—
“If you’re worrying about playing time and you’re worrying about stats, you’re worrying about the wrong thing. If Purdue wins, that’s all that matters.”
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2021-11-17/purdues-zach-edey-and-trevion-williams-lead-dangerous-frontcourt
Interesting question: where is Zach Edey now? Google doesn’t seem to know anything about him after Purdue.
He went back to Purdue.
https://www.si.com/college/purdue/basketball/zach-edey-announces-return-to-purdue-for-2022-23-college-basketball-season
Ok wow that is the perfect Dubs mentality. Dray is going to love this guy
Only if he can be taught some basic defense, which apparently, he's never been exposed to before.
A message for the Nets: sorry, deeply sorry to have tried to cheat you by offering two fiascoes like Wiggins and Poole for KD. We’ll keep them, don’t worry. And you keep the champ… the finals MVP… no, the MVP… ah sorry, I can’t remember exactly what title led you KD to. Please help my failing memory.
A dedication to JaMichal Green. I remember you. You played for those vitriolic, hellbound, thousand times (in 48’) damned Los Angeles Clippers that made me (and I’m sure most of you), literally pee our pants, with the nastiest comeback ever in the history of playoffs (If memory doesn’t fail me, 31 points cb, with 85 points in the second half). And you shot 70% TS in that soon to forget game.
No, I’m cool, I don’t hold a grudge against you.
I’m just happy that we don’t have to meet you as opponent. This year at least.
*figuratively :-)
Actually, mine was a rhetorical figure called ‘antiphrasis’, used to transmit irony. Yeah, I’m no Donte nor Shakespeare, but I’m a poet myself :) would you believe?
I mean, he did write it.
Just watched the Trevion draft prep video. Some thoughts: big shout to people who make videos like that. I don't think I could watch all that footage and come to the same accurate descriptions of the strengths and weaknesses. I've watched a jillion hours of ball but as a fan not a scout. Which is why I liked Apricot's vids, which brought me here ... My comp on Trevion is that on offense he looks like it's 1978 and he wants to be the next Bill Walton. Amazing post passing and some nice McHale post moves. On defense he's ... not the next anybody at this rate. Some of his weak areas seem coachable, or a product of how Purdue played, like his pnr coverage. But some of it is either uncoachable, like subpar athleticism for the NBA; or can be improved, but we shall see, like outside shooting. But there's a system problem. To leverage what he does best, Trevion wants to go get post position and operate from there, which is admittedly a lot of fun to watch. Baby Jokic on some of those. Still, the Dubs are about man and ball movement, pace and space; not about someone parking in the post, except the occasional Shaun Livingstone, which was really a one on one move, not a pivot to pass out of as much. So if the Dubs actually wanted Trevion to be on the big club, they'd either have to minimize his best asset, maybe put him out at the three point line to help facilitate offense, or they'd have to change how their second squad operates and let him work out of the post, which seems unlikely. Then on defense, he needs a Draymond Transfusion, and I'm not holding my breath. He's got that Eric Paschall "I'm here for the offense" look. ...
Put Trevion at the elbow instead of low post and have him operate as the passing hub. Which is what we do with every big man who can pass. It’s not rocket science.
Watching him made me think of Pascall.
more like Passchall
Or the paschal lamb, which is sacrificed at Passover, because he got passed over big time.
Or Pascal (Blaise). His sense of court geometry was unrivaled.
He also hit for the cycloid.
If Paschall could pass like that he'd have been more passable. The man was a ball stop when he was here.
Clearly they considered him passable as they passed on him and passed him on!
... which is not an encouraging moment...
Yes, but Santa Cruz might actually be fun to watch this year.
Dream big Trevion army! Some of the greatest 2nd round or UDFA finds in NBA history are big bodied, below the rim C’s with great hands and passing.
Jokic
Gasol
Brad Miller
I like the Brad Miller comp. Purdue guys. Similar size. Miller was pretty slow footed on D.
I really liked the Brad Miller comp on first glance, but I looked up his college numbers just to compare to Trevion and my god he was a beast of a scorer in college: 17.2 ppg with a TS% of .690 (!!!) and a FT% of 73% his senior year and a free throw rate of 84.4%. The big difference is that he came in really being able to shoot somewhat and we’ll have to see what Trevion can do with his jumper
Aside from the weight issue, how did young Dray look compared to young T today? Young T says he has always wanted to be on a team with lots of shooters (to pass to).
Dray came into the league as a plus defender
Thnx
You really nailed it with your very first word.
Random on Twitter last night says about Gui Santos returning to say farewell to his Brazilian team:
Well on Minas instagram he made a storie saying something like " i came to say thanks for yall(team/fans) believe in me, i hope yall still cheering for me even from Far away " and he was with a Golden State Warriors T shirt
https://twitter.com/YayoFromSouth/status/1550719502924582912?s=20&t=HWjswy1Uylwgr3Yehbn-AA
Excellent
Welcome to Santa Cruz, Samba Mamba!
Santa Gui in Santa Cruz
https://twitter.com/TopBallCoverage/status/1550555771774967808
Lakers trade logic: Please accept our trash and give us your valuable players.