Since I keep on seeing mentions about PBJ "avoiding surgery" or whatnot, I feel like I should restate the fact that we've already been told there is no structural damage or complications and that he's very close to being cleared for contact. Surgery was never in the cards.
Anyways, on Kuminga's shooting, his regular season numbers are obviously more indicative than a few summer league games ever will be, and I have faith he'll continue to improve as a shooter this coming season.
That said, I would kill for him to add more wrist flexion to his shot. I can nitpick the release point or being so squared up to the basket, but if he could just add relaxed wrist bend to his form I'd be super happy.
I have not seen anything even remotely official about PBJ's injury recovery (and googling just now didn't find anything).
The most I've seen is that PBJ said he intended to play in Summer League, but it was up to the medical staff to clear him. AFAIK, that has not happened.
Have you seen anything from the team? I've actually been a little puzzled about the lack of any announcement about his prognosis.
My 7 yr old son and I went to day 2 of Cali Classic (dubs lakers). I had not really noticed McClung that day. Tonight, I told him Warriors got a new Summer League player, named Mac McClung. He goes, you mean #55 for the Lakers?!?! I had to look it it up to check. He goes, “that guy is awesome, so fast. Probably better than Quinones”. I’m laughing, clearly he pays attention better than me. Although I still think Quinones is gonna turn out good, his shot is so smooth.
McClung has bought the intensity for sure, and took his fair share of possessions as he plays for his NBA career. Quinones has been a lot less assertive. Interested to see how he progresses next couple of games.
Someone said it earlier that McClung will forever be a star G-League PG. I'm afraid that could be correct. At the same time, he's got to be better than Chiozza, who played 10mpg for 34 games. We will see.
I think McClung is significantly better than Chiozza. I didn’t know Chiozza had some relationship with Atkinson. Ky Bowman is the other guy in this genre. I also think McClung is much better than Ky. At the same time, we’ve only seen McClung in summer league - and he may look quite different in an NBA game. So I’d be happy if he makes the team, and would tune in to watch to see what he’s got, but I’m not holding me breath.
He’s probably better than Chiozza (a low bar, lol) but that doesn’t necessarily make him a good fit on the 15-man roster. Chiozza was on a two-way contract last season, and no one could ever figure out why, beyond him being Atkinson’s guy.
I like what I’ve seen from McClung, and would notionally be fine with him snagging one of the two-way deals, but I’d also like to see how the roster shapes up and where depth is needed before saying for sure. With Rollins likely making the team, Poole’s PG skills developing, and Andre potentially returning, a 4th string little PG seems less critical to me than wing and big man depth. Right now, anyway — let’s see what happens with the last few guaranteed roster spots.
Question -- what are the chances any of Moody, Kuminga, or Wiseman will still be playing by Friday?
Followup -- is 110 degree weather in Vegas bearable with the amount of time you are in A/C??
Considering going with my son... He randomly gained in interest in seeing Vegas, I was thinking of trying to parlay this into an opportunity to increase his bball interest if he sees it in person.
If you're from foggy S.F., it would be very uncomfortable if you had to spend the day outdoors. But few people spend the day outdoors in Vegas. Too much to do and see if you are there just for some days. I've spent weeks in Vegas and you adjust, just like in Palm Springs. Evenings are the time for strolls outside.
I grew up in Las Vegas (age 1 to 11 anyways) and the plan was to play outside from dawn to 8 AM and then retreat into air conditioning at home from May to October unless you could be at one of those great outdoor hotel pools with the misters and lots of shade and hydration opportunities. My dad knew everyone so I was parked at a Strip outdoor hotel pool playing with the rich kids all the days in the summer school recess. The lifeguards were my bribed "nannys" as my mom worked full time too. I don't remember anything other than having big fun and being terrified to take off from the high dive the first time at the late, lamented Sahara (did a belly flop and it hurt like hell). Take your son! Go to Red Rocks, walk the Strip late at night, go to Cirque de Soleil for sure!, avoid downtown!, do the Hoover Dam tour, don't miss the Atomic Test Site Museum right in town!, go go-kart racing with your son 10 miles south at the track and watch the super cars! Its a fun place...lots of good food...have a great time!
Man I grew up in vegas 0-21 played basketball all day every day in the heat and used to catch double headers in baseball and never thought twice about the heat. Now I'm in the bay and spoiled as fuck lol can barely deal with 90 degrees
I would not go with the hope or expectation of seeing those guys. Easily could happen, just as easily could not. But there is lots of basketball either way.
Damn — thought this was gonna be a tweet about him returning to the team (which I actually kinda want now, if he feels like his mind and body are up to it).
OKC is going to be fun to watch this season. Well, at least when they keep Tre Mann off the floor. I didn't really notice him last year, but in SL he looks so bad, I cannot see why they play him or even why he is in the NBA. Giddey cannot shoot, but man can he pass. Oh, and Holmgren is fun, but no way is he the second coming of KD; he's gonna get bullied, a lot; and picked.
No, it doesn't (to me, of course) because it involves running around on an asphalt or cement or something else hard court chasing a ball. Chasing balls are what dogs are for (yes, that includes golf in my universe), I prefer to dance (vociferously) and NordicTrak (or walk enthusiastically) for exercise. Ballroom dancing, on the competitive level, would be awesome but I'm too short (4'11") unfortunately. On the other hand, which has five fingers, I'm happy to watch freakishly tall athletic humans run after and throw at each other a basketball. So there is the exception that proves the rule :)
Pickle ball is in fact so much fun. I started playing a bit because my hoops games got cancelled for COVID. it really does not take much skill to play, but it feels like there is also so much to learn and get better. And even with novices, crazy fun rallies and points happen that leave everyone laughing. It’s also is fun for all ages and skill levels mixed together. A couple of my daughters friends (5th graders) regularly play pickle with some older ladies at our local courts and the all have a blast. If anyone is thinking about trying it - I’d highly recommend it, the paddles are cheap on Amazon, lots of public courts, just find a few friends and give it a go. Or wander down to the courts with a paddle and see if someone will teach you.
One of the things I wanted to see from Moody at the beginning of his rookie season was a sped up shot release, and I think he is definitely getting there:
Jason Timpf from The Volume (same channel as Dray) did a 30-minute summary of Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody…(with a few seconds about Mac). It’s just him talking into the camera with no clips, but it’s a good listen: https://youtu.be/DTmsZOKTVaU
Summary:
Wiseman and Kuminga have star potential and already do some things really well, but have some holes that need fixing before they should join the playoff rotation. They just need reps, which they’ll get in SL, camp, all season. He also talked about Kuminga’s attitude, which could easily be attributable to his youth. Kerr might be under a lot of pressure to play them because this season because of the investment in their development.
Moody’s ceiling isn’t as high, but the game has slowed down for him and he’s ready “right now” to slide into the Otto Porter role, with DDV sliding into the GP2 role.
He covered the Lakers last year, so is very familiar with McClung and says he’s very good at what he is, a G-Leaguer, but said he’s not good enough to be an NBA player.
Thx for the summary. I'm going to add a bit of context. Firstly, he is definitely talking about their readiness at this point in time during SL, not what he thinks they'll be able to contribute in the playoffs in '23. He says Moody is ready to slot in immediately into a playoff rotation, and I think we did see a preview of that vs. Dallas. He predicts in this playoffs Moody and DDV will fill OPJ's and GP2's shoes, respectively. He does not think JK or JW will be ready to fill that big a playoff role this year, but he doesn't rule out either of them for the playoffs.
He does say that they each have two big holes to work on if they want to be significant playoff contributors this upcoming season: JK: good option this season for perimeter D. JW: will help this season w/length & athleticism and stretch 5 shot. They both have gaping holes to work on: JK: decision making & shot, JW: physicality, rebounding, defend w/o fouling. Those problems will keep them out of the regular playoff rotation unless they fix those holes this season which they have lots of opportunity to do.
Overall, I think it was a very balanced take. The specific section where he talks about JW's physicality was great, as was his his take on JK's decision making within the Curry/Kerr offense.
One important qualifier that no one has mentioned is Kerr and his system. If you can't play within his system, or continuously make the same mistakes within his system, he's going to punish you. I believe this was the primary reason why Kuminga saw less minutes in the playoffs and perhaps Moody, too. Consistency is something that is treasured and looked for. Knowing what to do, where to be, and the execution both offensively and defensively, are what is going to get you minutes with Kerr. We need to see these guys do the right things game after game. 7 fouls in a game is a huge red flag. No way does JK play the minutes in a game anything like the last one in the regular season. He gets yanked. Kerr is the litmus test for all the young ones. Look how GP2 earned his minutes. His impact on the court was palpable. I don't know if any of the 3 players are on the cusp of starter minutes. Wiseman seems to have the best chance since we need his size badly. I would think his mistakes will be tolerated more than JK and MM. We'll see.
I’m pretty sure a few people have noted that the ability to play within Kerrball is an important quality in aspiring Warrior rotation players.
I’m also pretty sure a few people are aware that consistency is important.
In other news: all young players lack consistency and high level hoops IQ. Kuminga is 19, Moody is 20, and Wiseman is 21. By contrast, GP2 turns 30 this year. Maybe let’s give the kids (checks watch) another 5-10 minutes to develop qualities that Payton, like all productive NBA players, took years to develop?
Or: look at where Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiggs, Loon, and Poole were at age 23-25 compared to where they were at 19-21 and temper your impatience with the kids accordingly.
Bruh moody ceiling isnt close to jk and wiseman lol what is your obsession with that fact. Moody I think will be very good for us but h can't even argue potential.....moody isn't Steph...super athletes that have already flashed superstar potential will always have more potential then a moody
The Athleticism (and that is also exclusively limited to running and jumping) = Potential dogma is still considered true unfortunately.
A market inefficiency that teams like the Grizzlies exploit quite well imo.
Skill is incredibly rare too. No matter what development Kuminga has, he will never be able to pass like a Josh Giddey. Giddey can never be the athlete Kuminga is, and Kuminga can never be the passer Giddey is.
I'd have to disagree on the passing part, from what I've seen giddy isn't some other worldly passer, with years of work and know how I don't see y kuminga can't be as good as a passer, he has the talent to be
It also feels like people are more willing to apply unrealistic skill improvements to great athletes when assessing their ceiling. I've heard "what if Kuminga becomes a Kawhi level shooter" way more than "what if Moody becomes a Paul George level ballhandler", even though both scenarios would be really unlikely.
That's because kuminga has a better chance at becoming a good shooter then moody has to become a PG level dribbler due to his athleticism and quickness? Pg is what 6'8? Not too many 6'8 people in the world are as agile as PG, moody will never
The "ceiling" discussions are always a bit silly, because it's basically just "who is the best player I can think of who somewhat resembles this other guys physical attributes". So when Curry entered the league, his ceiling was probably not great. Now Trae Young gets a ceiling of Steph Curry, which is great. Kuminga's ceiling I guess would be LeBron James. For Moody it's not easy to think of someone like him who was the best player in the NBA at a given time, so he is labeled a lower ceiling.
It is silly because the player probably only has a 0.1% chance of equaling that ceiling guy. Or in cases like Curry, there are guys who will create a new standard for others to be compared to.
Yeah … that was one discordant note in what was otherwise a really thoughtful and fair analysis, imo. Timpf’s stuff is really good, overall — easily top 5-10% of hoops commentary, very scouting-based, and refreshingly free of hyperbole and bile.
He and Chet seem to be hitting it off quite well. They are gonna have some fun this season. Too bad we didn't get to see more Banchero. Were they just resting him? I hope we don't do that with Wiseman.
Wholeheartedly agree. Bivol is way too good for Zurdo; better footwork, better gas tank, hits harder too. I would rather see Bivol vs. Beterbiev tbh, THAT would be a fun and competitive matchup. Hope we still get to see that one before the milk turns sour on it.
I'll still watch him beat the brakes off Zurdo though, Bivol has been one of my favorite guys for years. If he was a Mexican or a Brit instead of a Korean-Kyrgyz Russian, he would have been getting way more hype than he has gotten in his career so far.
Crazy especially since he’s got a Mexican trainer. I remember GGG getting pub especially amongst the Mexican fandom when he was being trained by Abel Sanchez. But that was mostly that coming up, many Mexican boxing fans were split on rooting for Canelo. GGG started gaining a loyal following in Mexico and that kinda stretched out to the general fan base. I do agree with your general premise though but mostly because there are two dominant central figureheads for both fan bases now.
GGG is actually a good example to illustrate what I'm talking about, though. If that dude wasn't a Kazakh but from a wealthier, more populous, and boxing-crazy country like Mexico or the UK or the US, he would have been a global megastar. In his prime that dude was a monster like Mike Tyson. He absolutely WRECKED dudes and guys like Eubanks (lol) and Canelo were ducking him for years, switching divisions and even voluntarily dropping championship straps (!) just so they wouldn't have to face him. It was only after he hired Abel, declared "Mexican-Style!" after every match he won, and HBO went into overdrive trying to promote him that he got a modicum of popularity from the casual boxing crowd. He should have been a global icon with his charisma and his destructive capabilities. Instead he gets brutally jobbed on the cards in the two biggest fights of his life. GGG's career has been a victim of his nationality and it's very disappointing given that he is indisputably one of the best boxers of the last 20 years.
Apparently Magic shut down Banchero for the rest of Summer League, so no Paolo-Chet tonight. However, Spurs-Rockets might be interesting - a chance to indirectly compare Wiseman and Jabari vs the same team.
I don't see how that's an interesting comparison. One has been able to consistently play competitive basketball within the past 15 months, the other has not.
I want want KD to go to Indiana, have Gene Hackman take over as coach, then bench him during the game because he took a shot before the team passed the ball 4 times.
or
As the Nets brass counts out the votes to oust Steve Nash as coach, Ben Simmons walks up to the lectern and says "I think it's about time I start playing." (Nets Execs cheering) And Simmons continues, "On one condition. Coach stays, I play. Coach goes, I feel a twinge in my back."
or
Simmons, KD & Irving play this year, they make it to the playoffs and at their first road game, the team gathers in the big empty arena at the Garden. Irving is taken aback by the aura of da Garden. Steve Nash sets up a ladder under the basket. Climbs to the top with a large cutting board in his hands. He speaks to a wide-eyed Irving: "Just like at home, the basket hoop is round," then he sets the cutting board on top of the rim and finishes, "and as you can clearly see, it is also FLAT."
This may sounds like sacrilege, but the 3 peat Lakers. (I’m a SoCal guy, crucify me.) Watching Shaq dominate in his prime was unreal.
Also would agree with the Bibby-Christie-Webber Kings for their flair and offense and Billups-Prince-Hamilton-Wallaces-Pistons just for the ferocious defense they played.
I’ve always had a soft spot for the Blazers because of Dame but before he got there, and before Brandon Roy’s injuries forced him into retirement, that late 2000s team looked like it could have developed into something special. Can you imagine Dame and Roy on the same floor together? Would have given us and Russ-Harden a run for their money as best backcourts in the 2010s.
It's sort of hard to separate favorite teams from liking the players. I grew up in Maryland so I was a Bullets fan, and my favorite was the 1977-78 and 1978-79 team with Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bob Dandridge, Phil Chenier, Mitch Kupchak, Greg Ballard, and company. I was a huge Hayes and Unseld fan from their college careers, and together they were amazing. Unseld in some ways was the forerunner of the small center in that he was 6'7" but he was 245 lbs and strong as an ox, and he played strong D (an immovable object in the paint), was an excellent rebounder, and threw the sweetest outlet passes you could want. Big E was a perennial all star. Dandridge is mostly forgotten today but was a good SF and was an all star in '78-79.
Also the '68-69 Bullets with Unseld, Earl Monroe, Gus Johnson, Bob Ferry, Kevin Loughery, and Jack Marin. They were EC champs that year. Why, oh why did they trade Earl the Pearl to NY for Mike Riordan and Dave Stallworth? I will never understand.
Me too! Grew up watching the Bullets. Started the year they were the Capital Bullets, in between when they were the Baltimore Bullets and then of D.C. K.C Jones was their coach. So by then Earl Monroe had joined the Knicks.
Used to see ‘em at Capital Centre in Landover. I remember the players you mention. Crushed when they lost the finals to the Warriors! Then they did get a chip with Dave Bing and coach Dick Motta of “not until the fat lady sings” fame. Think that run was the first time they used “We are the Champions” in an American sports context.
Crazy how my fandom has transferred. No attachment to the present-day Wizards though Wes Unseld’s son is current head coach.
As a Warriors fan who mostly started paying attention in the mid-90s onward, once it got to playoff time I had to pick a different team to root for. Generally, as probably is true with many of you, the easiest option was "whoever was playing the Lakers". As such, the 03-04 Pistons have got to be my favorite. 07-08 Celtics I also enjoyed for the same reason, plus I really enjoyed KG and Ray Allen. And lastly the more perennial Lakers foe, the 2000's Spurs -- I always liked the Admiral and the way Duncan played.
Magic is possibly my 2nd favorite player of all time. I did not like the Lakers but Magic….
[EDIT] more on topic, liked the JKidd/KittlesJefferson/Martin Nets and the JKidd/Nowitzki Mavs. The Webber Kings although I still harbored some ill feelings for CWebb I no longer have. Suns under KJMajrle/Barkley, then Kidd, then Nash. I am sure there are others but those are what come to mind.
I grew up in San Diego hating all things LA, so any team that beat the Lakers I was a fan of. Particularly the 80s' Celtics. Then I moved to SF in '91, and Run TMC hooked me.
Needless to say, my favorite thing from this year is that the Dubs fourth title tied the Showtime Lakers. :)
I have a soft spot for the current Kings, since I lived in Stockton for 8 years, but it isn't really comparable to my other rooting interests.
Not sure if you mean this year or all time, but a couple of my all time are the 5x champion Spurs (because they played ball the right way and they beat the Heat), the 2010-2011 Mavs (because they beat the Heat), and the 79-80 Lakers (yeah, I know, but Magic, and OMG game 6 Magic).
Favorite players from those teams: Tim D., Manu, Parker, Dirk, and Magic.
Oh. That Pistons team too. Generally just rooting for that underdog, hard-nosed team... but specifically, I remember Rip Hamilton doing an interview which I still remember. He spoke about his endurance training... how his goal was to run around so much to wear out the opponent (remind you of anyone?).
Since I keep on seeing mentions about PBJ "avoiding surgery" or whatnot, I feel like I should restate the fact that we've already been told there is no structural damage or complications and that he's very close to being cleared for contact. Surgery was never in the cards.
Anyways, on Kuminga's shooting, his regular season numbers are obviously more indicative than a few summer league games ever will be, and I have faith he'll continue to improve as a shooter this coming season.
That said, I would kill for him to add more wrist flexion to his shot. I can nitpick the release point or being so squared up to the basket, but if he could just add relaxed wrist bend to his form I'd be super happy.
I have not seen anything even remotely official about PBJ's injury recovery (and googling just now didn't find anything).
The most I've seen is that PBJ said he intended to play in Summer League, but it was up to the medical staff to clear him. AFAIK, that has not happened.
Have you seen anything from the team? I've actually been a little puzzled about the lack of any announcement about his prognosis.
I think you know way more about shooting motion than I do! Appreciate the insight
My 7 yr old son and I went to day 2 of Cali Classic (dubs lakers). I had not really noticed McClung that day. Tonight, I told him Warriors got a new Summer League player, named Mac McClung. He goes, you mean #55 for the Lakers?!?! I had to look it it up to check. He goes, “that guy is awesome, so fast. Probably better than Quinones”. I’m laughing, clearly he pays attention better than me. Although I still think Quinones is gonna turn out good, his shot is so smooth.
McClung has bought the intensity for sure, and took his fair share of possessions as he plays for his NBA career. Quinones has been a lot less assertive. Interested to see how he progresses next couple of games.
Someone said it earlier that McClung will forever be a star G-League PG. I'm afraid that could be correct. At the same time, he's got to be better than Chiozza, who played 10mpg for 34 games. We will see.
Unless someone better steps up, McClung is the guy. You don't think he is better than Chiozza? Hasn't he shown that to you already?
I think McClung is significantly better than Chiozza. I didn’t know Chiozza had some relationship with Atkinson. Ky Bowman is the other guy in this genre. I also think McClung is much better than Ky. At the same time, we’ve only seen McClung in summer league - and he may look quite different in an NBA game. So I’d be happy if he makes the team, and would tune in to watch to see what he’s got, but I’m not holding me breath.
He’s probably better than Chiozza (a low bar, lol) but that doesn’t necessarily make him a good fit on the 15-man roster. Chiozza was on a two-way contract last season, and no one could ever figure out why, beyond him being Atkinson’s guy.
I like what I’ve seen from McClung, and would notionally be fine with him snagging one of the two-way deals, but I’d also like to see how the roster shapes up and where depth is needed before saying for sure. With Rollins likely making the team, Poole’s PG skills developing, and Andre potentially returning, a 4th string little PG seems less critical to me than wing and big man depth. Right now, anyway — let’s see what happens with the last few guaranteed roster spots.
Question -- what are the chances any of Moody, Kuminga, or Wiseman will still be playing by Friday?
Followup -- is 110 degree weather in Vegas bearable with the amount of time you are in A/C??
Considering going with my son... He randomly gained in interest in seeing Vegas, I was thinking of trying to parlay this into an opportunity to increase his bball interest if he sees it in person.
If you're from foggy S.F., it would be very uncomfortable if you had to spend the day outdoors. But few people spend the day outdoors in Vegas. Too much to do and see if you are there just for some days. I've spent weeks in Vegas and you adjust, just like in Palm Springs. Evenings are the time for strolls outside.
Weather is fine if you don't go outside. But man, even 5 min outside can be horrible
I grew up in Las Vegas (age 1 to 11 anyways) and the plan was to play outside from dawn to 8 AM and then retreat into air conditioning at home from May to October unless you could be at one of those great outdoor hotel pools with the misters and lots of shade and hydration opportunities. My dad knew everyone so I was parked at a Strip outdoor hotel pool playing with the rich kids all the days in the summer school recess. The lifeguards were my bribed "nannys" as my mom worked full time too. I don't remember anything other than having big fun and being terrified to take off from the high dive the first time at the late, lamented Sahara (did a belly flop and it hurt like hell). Take your son! Go to Red Rocks, walk the Strip late at night, go to Cirque de Soleil for sure!, avoid downtown!, do the Hoover Dam tour, don't miss the Atomic Test Site Museum right in town!, go go-kart racing with your son 10 miles south at the track and watch the super cars! Its a fun place...lots of good food...have a great time!
That felt like reading a memoir 😊 Love the sprinkles of humanness that pop up here 💓
Plus Mt. Charles.
Man I grew up in vegas 0-21 played basketball all day every day in the heat and used to catch double headers in baseball and never thought twice about the heat. Now I'm in the bay and spoiled as fuck lol can barely deal with 90 degrees
I would not go with the hope or expectation of seeing those guys. Easily could happen, just as easily could not. But there is lots of basketball either way.
ANDRE
https://twitter.com/andre/status/1546701809695133698?s=21&t=FIFGNyQFWtjtWslMW397nA
Damn — thought this was gonna be a tweet about him returning to the team (which I actually kinda want now, if he feels like his mind and body are up to it).
RJ has his first call overturned
OKC is going to be fun to watch this season. Well, at least when they keep Tre Mann off the floor. I didn't really notice him last year, but in SL he looks so bad, I cannot see why they play him or even why he is in the NBA. Giddey cannot shoot, but man can he pass. Oh, and Holmgren is fun, but no way is he the second coming of KD; he's gonna get bullied, a lot; and picked.
I think Wiseman could benefit from picking up volleyball as his side sport.
I prefer soccer with bigs, helps them become so much more agile with better footwork.
Ballroom Dancing for sure.
I'd pick MMA, for real.
You already know what this clip is without clicking it, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8vIjEKvT8
What is it with the new pickle ball obsession?!?!
pickleball annoys the hell out of me because they typically repurpose tennis courts for it, the fuckers.
No, it doesn't (to me, of course) because it involves running around on an asphalt or cement or something else hard court chasing a ball. Chasing balls are what dogs are for (yes, that includes golf in my universe), I prefer to dance (vociferously) and NordicTrak (or walk enthusiastically) for exercise. Ballroom dancing, on the competitive level, would be awesome but I'm too short (4'11") unfortunately. On the other hand, which has five fingers, I'm happy to watch freakishly tall athletic humans run after and throw at each other a basketball. So there is the exception that proves the rule :)
Pickle ball is in fact so much fun. I started playing a bit because my hoops games got cancelled for COVID. it really does not take much skill to play, but it feels like there is also so much to learn and get better. And even with novices, crazy fun rallies and points happen that leave everyone laughing. It’s also is fun for all ages and skill levels mixed together. A couple of my daughters friends (5th graders) regularly play pickle with some older ladies at our local courts and the all have a blast. If anyone is thinking about trying it - I’d highly recommend it, the paddles are cheap on Amazon, lots of public courts, just find a few friends and give it a go. Or wander down to the courts with a paddle and see if someone will teach you.
I’ve seen people turn tennis courts into pickle ball courts, so can start checking out your local tennis center
One of the things I wanted to see from Moody at the beginning of his rookie season was a sped up shot release, and I think he is definitely getting there:
https://twitter.com/warriors/status/1546627645164625920
Needs to also improve the transfer from dribble to shot in order for his pull up shooting game to really take off.
Jason Timpf from The Volume (same channel as Dray) did a 30-minute summary of Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody…(with a few seconds about Mac). It’s just him talking into the camera with no clips, but it’s a good listen: https://youtu.be/DTmsZOKTVaU
Summary:
Wiseman and Kuminga have star potential and already do some things really well, but have some holes that need fixing before they should join the playoff rotation. They just need reps, which they’ll get in SL, camp, all season. He also talked about Kuminga’s attitude, which could easily be attributable to his youth. Kerr might be under a lot of pressure to play them because this season because of the investment in their development.
Moody’s ceiling isn’t as high, but the game has slowed down for him and he’s ready “right now” to slide into the Otto Porter role, with DDV sliding into the GP2 role.
He covered the Lakers last year, so is very familiar with McClung and says he’s very good at what he is, a G-Leaguer, but said he’s not good enough to be an NBA player.
Thx for the summary. I'm going to add a bit of context. Firstly, he is definitely talking about their readiness at this point in time during SL, not what he thinks they'll be able to contribute in the playoffs in '23. He says Moody is ready to slot in immediately into a playoff rotation, and I think we did see a preview of that vs. Dallas. He predicts in this playoffs Moody and DDV will fill OPJ's and GP2's shoes, respectively. He does not think JK or JW will be ready to fill that big a playoff role this year, but he doesn't rule out either of them for the playoffs.
He does say that they each have two big holes to work on if they want to be significant playoff contributors this upcoming season: JK: good option this season for perimeter D. JW: will help this season w/length & athleticism and stretch 5 shot. They both have gaping holes to work on: JK: decision making & shot, JW: physicality, rebounding, defend w/o fouling. Those problems will keep them out of the regular playoff rotation unless they fix those holes this season which they have lots of opportunity to do.
Overall, I think it was a very balanced take. The specific section where he talks about JW's physicality was great, as was his his take on JK's decision making within the Curry/Kerr offense.
Thanks Goofus. I enjoyed the breakdown and gave me a few things to look for this coming season from the young guns
One important qualifier that no one has mentioned is Kerr and his system. If you can't play within his system, or continuously make the same mistakes within his system, he's going to punish you. I believe this was the primary reason why Kuminga saw less minutes in the playoffs and perhaps Moody, too. Consistency is something that is treasured and looked for. Knowing what to do, where to be, and the execution both offensively and defensively, are what is going to get you minutes with Kerr. We need to see these guys do the right things game after game. 7 fouls in a game is a huge red flag. No way does JK play the minutes in a game anything like the last one in the regular season. He gets yanked. Kerr is the litmus test for all the young ones. Look how GP2 earned his minutes. His impact on the court was palpable. I don't know if any of the 3 players are on the cusp of starter minutes. Wiseman seems to have the best chance since we need his size badly. I would think his mistakes will be tolerated more than JK and MM. We'll see.
I’m pretty sure a few people have noted that the ability to play within Kerrball is an important quality in aspiring Warrior rotation players.
I’m also pretty sure a few people are aware that consistency is important.
In other news: all young players lack consistency and high level hoops IQ. Kuminga is 19, Moody is 20, and Wiseman is 21. By contrast, GP2 turns 30 this year. Maybe let’s give the kids (checks watch) another 5-10 minutes to develop qualities that Payton, like all productive NBA players, took years to develop?
Or: look at where Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiggs, Loon, and Poole were at age 23-25 compared to where they were at 19-21 and temper your impatience with the kids accordingly.
Mac McClung has played 12.5 min in 2 NBA games so, yeah, I totally trust this Timpf shrub.
> Moody’s ceiling isn’t as high
I will add another analyst to the “Wrong“ group then.
Bruh moody ceiling isnt close to jk and wiseman lol what is your obsession with that fact. Moody I think will be very good for us but h can't even argue potential.....moody isn't Steph...super athletes that have already flashed superstar potential will always have more potential then a moody
True, the First Team All-NBA this season is full of "super athletes" like Doncic, Jokic, Booker, and Tatum.
The Athleticism (and that is also exclusively limited to running and jumping) = Potential dogma is still considered true unfortunately.
A market inefficiency that teams like the Grizzlies exploit quite well imo.
Skill is incredibly rare too. No matter what development Kuminga has, he will never be able to pass like a Josh Giddey. Giddey can never be the athlete Kuminga is, and Kuminga can never be the passer Giddey is.
I'd have to disagree on the passing part, from what I've seen giddy isn't some other worldly passer, with years of work and know how I don't see y kuminga can't be as good as a passer, he has the talent to be
It also feels like people are more willing to apply unrealistic skill improvements to great athletes when assessing their ceiling. I've heard "what if Kuminga becomes a Kawhi level shooter" way more than "what if Moody becomes a Paul George level ballhandler", even though both scenarios would be really unlikely.
That's because kuminga has a better chance at becoming a good shooter then moody has to become a PG level dribbler due to his athleticism and quickness? Pg is what 6'8? Not too many 6'8 people in the world are as agile as PG, moody will never
The "ceiling" discussions are always a bit silly, because it's basically just "who is the best player I can think of who somewhat resembles this other guys physical attributes". So when Curry entered the league, his ceiling was probably not great. Now Trae Young gets a ceiling of Steph Curry, which is great. Kuminga's ceiling I guess would be LeBron James. For Moody it's not easy to think of someone like him who was the best player in the NBA at a given time, so he is labeled a lower ceiling.
It is silly because the player probably only has a 0.1% chance of equaling that ceiling guy. Or in cases like Curry, there are guys who will create a new standard for others to be compared to.
reminds me of curry's chinese nickname, sky f*er
I don't think Kuminga's ceiling is LeBron. He's talented but not THAT talented.
Yeah … that was one discordant note in what was otherwise a really thoughtful and fair analysis, imo. Timpf’s stuff is really good, overall — easily top 5-10% of hoops commentary, very scouting-based, and refreshingly free of hyperbole and bile.
I love the way Giddey is enthusiastically playing in SL as most of the other top second year players are ducking the smoke.
He and Chet seem to be hitting it off quite well. They are gonna have some fun this season. Too bad we didn't get to see more Banchero. Were they just resting him? I hope we don't do that with Wiseman.
Crusty,
Bivol vs Zurdo Ramirez in the works. I don’t see any universe in which Zurdo wins this fight. Your thoughts?
Wholeheartedly agree. Bivol is way too good for Zurdo; better footwork, better gas tank, hits harder too. I would rather see Bivol vs. Beterbiev tbh, THAT would be a fun and competitive matchup. Hope we still get to see that one before the milk turns sour on it.
I'll still watch him beat the brakes off Zurdo though, Bivol has been one of my favorite guys for years. If he was a Mexican or a Brit instead of a Korean-Kyrgyz Russian, he would have been getting way more hype than he has gotten in his career so far.
Crazy especially since he’s got a Mexican trainer. I remember GGG getting pub especially amongst the Mexican fandom when he was being trained by Abel Sanchez. But that was mostly that coming up, many Mexican boxing fans were split on rooting for Canelo. GGG started gaining a loyal following in Mexico and that kinda stretched out to the general fan base. I do agree with your general premise though but mostly because there are two dominant central figureheads for both fan bases now.
GGG is actually a good example to illustrate what I'm talking about, though. If that dude wasn't a Kazakh but from a wealthier, more populous, and boxing-crazy country like Mexico or the UK or the US, he would have been a global megastar. In his prime that dude was a monster like Mike Tyson. He absolutely WRECKED dudes and guys like Eubanks (lol) and Canelo were ducking him for years, switching divisions and even voluntarily dropping championship straps (!) just so they wouldn't have to face him. It was only after he hired Abel, declared "Mexican-Style!" after every match he won, and HBO went into overdrive trying to promote him that he got a modicum of popularity from the casual boxing crowd. He should have been a global icon with his charisma and his destructive capabilities. Instead he gets brutally jobbed on the cards in the two biggest fights of his life. GGG's career has been a victim of his nationality and it's very disappointing given that he is indisputably one of the best boxers of the last 20 years.
My cat’s breath smells like cat food.
So does mine but I don't see what that has to do with our conversation.
Exactly! :-)
Not watching, but apparently Liddell injured his knee and was [edit: helped, not carried] off the floor :(
[Edit: He slightly injured the same leg and/or knee earlier in the game, but was allowed back in because it was minor?]
https://mobile.twitter.com/HocsBasketball/status/1546633194304409600
His defender is leaning on him as he was trying to get positioned
Ugh.
😑
Uh-oh: Primo in protocols. This could really mess up the Warriors.
[Edit: or maybe the Warriors gave it to him and they don't know it yet?]
Apparently Magic shut down Banchero for the rest of Summer League, so no Paolo-Chet tonight. However, Spurs-Rockets might be interesting - a chance to indirectly compare Wiseman and Jabari vs the same team.
I don't see how that's an interesting comparison. One has been able to consistently play competitive basketball within the past 15 months, the other has not.
I want want KD to go to Indiana, have Gene Hackman take over as coach, then bench him during the game because he took a shot before the team passed the ball 4 times.
or
As the Nets brass counts out the votes to oust Steve Nash as coach, Ben Simmons walks up to the lectern and says "I think it's about time I start playing." (Nets Execs cheering) And Simmons continues, "On one condition. Coach stays, I play. Coach goes, I feel a twinge in my back."
or
Simmons, KD & Irving play this year, they make it to the playoffs and at their first road game, the team gathers in the big empty arena at the Garden. Irving is taken aback by the aura of da Garden. Steve Nash sets up a ladder under the basket. Climbs to the top with a large cutting board in his hands. He speaks to a wide-eyed Irving: "Just like at home, the basket hoop is round," then he sets the cutting board on top of the rim and finishes, "and as you can clearly see, it is also FLAT."
😂
And here I thought Kyrie was going to be the Nets coach - while Nash is still there.
OT: What were some of your favorite non-Warriors teams (basketball-wise, not how much you liked the players)?
This is only teams I remember watching…
This may sounds like sacrilege, but the 3 peat Lakers. (I’m a SoCal guy, crucify me.) Watching Shaq dominate in his prime was unreal.
Also would agree with the Bibby-Christie-Webber Kings for their flair and offense and Billups-Prince-Hamilton-Wallaces-Pistons just for the ferocious defense they played.
I’ve always had a soft spot for the Blazers because of Dame but before he got there, and before Brandon Roy’s injuries forced him into retirement, that late 2000s team looked like it could have developed into something special. Can you imagine Dame and Roy on the same floor together? Would have given us and Russ-Harden a run for their money as best backcourts in the 2010s.
It's sort of hard to separate favorite teams from liking the players. I grew up in Maryland so I was a Bullets fan, and my favorite was the 1977-78 and 1978-79 team with Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bob Dandridge, Phil Chenier, Mitch Kupchak, Greg Ballard, and company. I was a huge Hayes and Unseld fan from their college careers, and together they were amazing. Unseld in some ways was the forerunner of the small center in that he was 6'7" but he was 245 lbs and strong as an ox, and he played strong D (an immovable object in the paint), was an excellent rebounder, and threw the sweetest outlet passes you could want. Big E was a perennial all star. Dandridge is mostly forgotten today but was a good SF and was an all star in '78-79.
Also the '68-69 Bullets with Unseld, Earl Monroe, Gus Johnson, Bob Ferry, Kevin Loughery, and Jack Marin. They were EC champs that year. Why, oh why did they trade Earl the Pearl to NY for Mike Riordan and Dave Stallworth? I will never understand.
Me too! Grew up watching the Bullets. Started the year they were the Capital Bullets, in between when they were the Baltimore Bullets and then of D.C. K.C Jones was their coach. So by then Earl Monroe had joined the Knicks.
Used to see ‘em at Capital Centre in Landover. I remember the players you mention. Crushed when they lost the finals to the Warriors! Then they did get a chip with Dave Bing and coach Dick Motta of “not until the fat lady sings” fame. Think that run was the first time they used “We are the Champions” in an American sports context.
Crazy how my fandom has transferred. No attachment to the present-day Wizards though Wes Unseld’s son is current head coach.
Sacramento Kings with White Chocolate, C Webb, Peja
Not the team with Mike Bibby, only The Jason Williams version
As a Warriors fan who mostly started paying attention in the mid-90s onward, once it got to playoff time I had to pick a different team to root for. Generally, as probably is true with many of you, the easiest option was "whoever was playing the Lakers". As such, the 03-04 Pistons have got to be my favorite. 07-08 Celtics I also enjoyed for the same reason, plus I really enjoyed KG and Ray Allen. And lastly the more perennial Lakers foe, the 2000's Spurs -- I always liked the Admiral and the way Duncan played.
Magic is possibly my 2nd favorite player of all time. I did not like the Lakers but Magic….
[EDIT] more on topic, liked the JKidd/KittlesJefferson/Martin Nets and the JKidd/Nowitzki Mavs. The Webber Kings although I still harbored some ill feelings for CWebb I no longer have. Suns under KJMajrle/Barkley, then Kidd, then Nash. I am sure there are others but those are what come to mind.
Going through this thread, I now realize how much this Dubs era is just a crazy amalgamation of all my favorite/memorable teams/players from my past.
* Steph is: Duncan (leader), Rip Hamilton (endurance, off-ball), Stockton (screens), Abdul-Rauf (off the dribble scoring), Reggie (threes)
* Dray: '03-'04 Pistons
* KD: Hakeem (the brief stint of domination from a skilled 7-footer before the GOAT went back to business)
* Style of play: Spursian with elements of CWebb Kings and 7s-or-less Suns
Olajuwon and 4 guys
1994 was ridiculous: MVP, DPOY, FMVP.
How many players can you honestly say "well, taking him over MJ really wasn't that bad of a decision"?
Can anyone shed any light on how The Dream isn't rated higher? Would he have been if a homegrown American?
The Blazers of Drexler, Porter, Kersey, Williams, Duckworth.
Iverson's Sixers with Mutumbo, Snow, Hill etc. And later, a young Iggy.
I grew up in San Diego hating all things LA, so any team that beat the Lakers I was a fan of. Particularly the 80s' Celtics. Then I moved to SF in '91, and Run TMC hooked me.
Needless to say, my favorite thing from this year is that the Dubs fourth title tied the Showtime Lakers. :)
I have a soft spot for the current Kings, since I lived in Stockton for 8 years, but it isn't really comparable to my other rooting interests.
Showtime Lakers won 5 rings... which one don't you count?
You're right ... apparently I've been wrong about that for 30 years. :(
Oh, well, it just means we need to win another one next year.
And of course pass LeBron . . .
The 03-04 Pistons with Billups, Hamilton, and the Wallace bros.
Some of mine are: 2014 Spurs; Shaq and Penny Magic; Cwebb-Peja-Vlade Kings; Vince-TMac Raptors
Edit: OKC finals team; 7SoL Suns; [forgot the Rockets! Hakeem's teams + Yao vs Shaq]
I totally read that as "seven servant of luna suns" on the first pass
Not sure if you mean this year or all time, but a couple of my all time are the 5x champion Spurs (because they played ball the right way and they beat the Heat), the 2010-2011 Mavs (because they beat the Heat), and the 79-80 Lakers (yeah, I know, but Magic, and OMG game 6 Magic).
Favorite players from those teams: Tim D., Manu, Parker, Dirk, and Magic.
Kings with Bibby, peja, Christie, Bobby Jackson etc
Didn't they also have a guy named Webber on that squad?
Vlade was pretty crucial too
I liked the Jason Williams version myself, but that burned out really fast. The Bibby version was a better team, but man, JWill was must see.
Duncan Spurs. Admittedly, there was a period where I was probably on PtR more than GSoM. Many fans said "boring"... I saw "team basketball".
Steph leads in similar ways to Duncan. Can be flashy like Manu... and finish near the basket as a small like Parker. Plus more.
2014 Finals were amazing. I was so pumped when Kerr was hired, just I could watch the Warriors try to play like that.
Yea, it's really amazing how they transformed from Twin Towers and defensive juggernauts to "the beautiful game" over the course of their run.
It's kind of gone in reverse for the Dubs, going from being known for our offense in '15-16 to the defensive masterclass we just put on this past run.
And both teams were always better on the other side of the ball than they were given credit for.
Oh. That Pistons team too. Generally just rooting for that underdog, hard-nosed team... but specifically, I remember Rip Hamilton doing an interview which I still remember. He spoke about his endurance training... how his goal was to run around so much to wear out the opponent (remind you of anyone?).
The Jokic-Murray Nuggets.