Hoops Collective is Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon and they are reacting to the most recent Slater and Shams ESPN article. A quote:
Bontemps: "Yeah, I mean the basic thing is there's been a two-year deal for about $48 million dollars on the table for a while [...] with the second year being a team option [.,..] and then Anthony and Shams reported today that there's also been offered a three-year deal with the third year as a team option in the $75 million dollar range [...]. My opinion, both of those offers are more than fair, and it would be malpractice if Jonathan Kuminga does not sign one of those deals[...]", He then goes on to compare to signing the QO and how much worse that is both financially for him and because the Warriors would have very little payoff for trading him and no incentive to consider him.
MacMahon and Windhorst talk a little bit more from Kuminga's perspective of not being wanted/played and signing the QO gets him out faster with more control. Bontemps gets progressively more and more irate with that line of argumentation.
The Warriors offers are somewhat fair. They're definitely better than a QO.
On the other hand, team options are very rare in this pay range. Eric shared two recent examples: Bruce Brown and Fred Van Vleet. In both of those instances those were veteran unrestricted free agents who got higher yearly salaries than most anticipated. The team options were a win-win. Team has flexibility, and the players would be happy if they picked it up because they were not likely to increase their market value beyond that number.
Kuminga and his team expect that his market value will increase. So the team option is purely for the team's benefit. I was very surprised to hear the Warriors were insisting on team options, and I'm not at all surprised Kuminga is not signing contracts with those as part of the deal.
If the Warriors drop the team option requirement this deal will get done very quickly.
I am irrationally excited about a healthy De'Anthony Melton along with a full offseason Jimmy Buckets with this team. Not to mention the potential leap from the young guys. Just need to get this negotiation madness over with and the 2022 vibes will creep in
This is an excellent analysis that suffers from subtlety and nuance. How are fans supposed to make uninformed bold statements if they have this analysis at their disposal?
However, only slightly touched upon are system effects. As you point out, Seth Curry with Charlotte was a bad defender, but what if he played with the inspirational defenders on the Dubs?
Surely, we can make stuff up about how our culture and coach will dredge the least bit of talent and motivation from a player and turn him into a valuable cog in a winning machine. Where's the hyperbole! Where are the improbable extrapolations from rare signs of brilliance? (And, no, I'm not thinking about my golf game - all of my putts will go in, just like that last one).
Kuminga questions (and sorry if these should be in the other thread—I’m just assuming we’ve migrated here):
If JK and W’s were to agree on his suggestion of a 1-yr deal at a figure above the QO, could he subsequently sign an extension off that? How soon? And how big a raise could he get in such an extension?
I'm going to admit that I only sort of understand the details of the analysis, but I find it very cool. As long as APRIBOT doesn't turn against us, this is awesome.
I hope it was still informative. I am still wrestling with how to present the overall picture while providing gory details and also not intimidating/boring some readers
Is there some explanation of what the green checks and red Xs are supposed to signify? I honestly can't figure it out.
More green checks are good, red Xs are bad.
Technically, the green checks are each 10 percentiles above the median. So a player in the 72nd percentile gets 2 green boxes.
Does that make sense?
(More Kuminga stuff, apologies if already posted)
What is Warriors’ solution for Jonathan Kuminga? | The Hoop Collective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnufSzI8deQ
Hoops Collective is Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon and they are reacting to the most recent Slater and Shams ESPN article. A quote:
Bontemps: "Yeah, I mean the basic thing is there's been a two-year deal for about $48 million dollars on the table for a while [...] with the second year being a team option [.,..] and then Anthony and Shams reported today that there's also been offered a three-year deal with the third year as a team option in the $75 million dollar range [...]. My opinion, both of those offers are more than fair, and it would be malpractice if Jonathan Kuminga does not sign one of those deals[...]", He then goes on to compare to signing the QO and how much worse that is both financially for him and because the Warriors would have very little payoff for trading him and no incentive to consider him.
MacMahon and Windhorst talk a little bit more from Kuminga's perspective of not being wanted/played and signing the QO gets him out faster with more control. Bontemps gets progressively more and more irate with that line of argumentation.
The Warriors offers are somewhat fair. They're definitely better than a QO.
On the other hand, team options are very rare in this pay range. Eric shared two recent examples: Bruce Brown and Fred Van Vleet. In both of those instances those were veteran unrestricted free agents who got higher yearly salaries than most anticipated. The team options were a win-win. Team has flexibility, and the players would be happy if they picked it up because they were not likely to increase their market value beyond that number.
Kuminga and his team expect that his market value will increase. So the team option is purely for the team's benefit. I was very surprised to hear the Warriors were insisting on team options, and I'm not at all surprised Kuminga is not signing contracts with those as part of the deal.
If the Warriors drop the team option requirement this deal will get done very quickly.
I am irrationally excited about a healthy De'Anthony Melton along with a full offseason Jimmy Buckets with this team. Not to mention the potential leap from the young guys. Just need to get this negotiation madness over with and the 2022 vibes will creep in
This is an excellent analysis that suffers from subtlety and nuance. How are fans supposed to make uninformed bold statements if they have this analysis at their disposal?
However, only slightly touched upon are system effects. As you point out, Seth Curry with Charlotte was a bad defender, but what if he played with the inspirational defenders on the Dubs?
Surely, we can make stuff up about how our culture and coach will dredge the least bit of talent and motivation from a player and turn him into a valuable cog in a winning machine. Where's the hyperbole! Where are the improbable extrapolations from rare signs of brilliance? (And, no, I'm not thinking about my golf game - all of my putts will go in, just like that last one).
Kuminga questions (and sorry if these should be in the other thread—I’m just assuming we’ve migrated here):
If JK and W’s were to agree on his suggestion of a 1-yr deal at a figure above the QO, could he subsequently sign an extension off that? How soon? And how big a raise could he get in such an extension?
If it’s a straight one year deal they can’t sign an extension off that.
The Warriors would never agree to that anyways. The middle ground from where they’re at would be a two year deal with no options.
I'm going to admit that I only sort of understand the details of the analysis, but I find it very cool. As long as APRIBOT doesn't turn against us, this is awesome.
APRIBOT will either lead us to a Jetsons automated paradise or into a "I Have No Mouth but I Must Scream" hellscape. No pressure, Eric
I hope it was still informative. I am still wrestling with how to present the overall picture while providing gory details and also not intimidating/boring some readers