It almost feels like the 2022 championship has stoked even more "anti-KD" sentiment from some dubs fans, when personally I feel the opposite way. The 2022 win again validated Curry is the best currently doing it, against a healthy opponent, and he has now done it twice without KD (for those keeping score, KD has 0 without Curry). For me the gap is so significant now that I feel even more comfortable praising KD without feeling conflicted about it.
2017 finals KD had one of the most insane performances ever. Yes, a lot of that was because he played for the Warriors, and specifically had Curry absorbing so much defensive attention. But he averaged what, 35 pts on 70% TS?? Barnes played the same position against the same team, and benefited from the same gravity and scored 9.3 pts on 43% TS or thereabouts in the previous finals. So to act like they are interchangable is just delusional.
It is indisputable that KD helped the Warriors win the 2017 and 2018 championships. Would they have won with someone else in his place? Maybe, but that is a weird question that we don't seem to apply to any other champions. Are there debates about whether 96-98 Bulls would win without Rodman? I don't know, it's just a weird/pointless question to ask, any champion probably wouldn't win without one of their top players. And what is really the point of theorizing whether they would or not?? Just be happy that the guy was on the team!
I remember prior years and organizing lists of free agents in an excel spreadsheet. This year, the only free agent list I have is guys on our own team. Last year's haul of Andre, OPJ, Beli and the last minute add of GP2 was an A+ off season, considering we are talking about 4 minimum contracts for a group of players who all played roles in a Chip.
I believe winning the Chip this year has altered the Dub's thinking going into next year. With #4 in hand, I feel like the Warriors are going to fast track development and install a load management program for the core that should remain in place for the rest of their careers.
Thus, what we are looking for is Wiseman, JFK & Moody to outperform the production we got from Andre-OPJ-Beli last year. Of course, their production will be filled with rookie mistakes. But I am guessing that's the plan. If Meyers is able to keep one of Andre-OPJ-Beli after taking care of Looney and GP2, I would consider this off season a huge win.
So from the Slater article, it looks like this will be the probable roster:
Guards: Steph/Klay/JP/RR
Wings: GP2/Wiggs/MM/JK
Bigs: Dray/Wise/Looney/PBJ
He said, they could leave the 15th open, and that backup ball-handler and traditional 5 are unlikely.
That leaves 2 spots for 2 re-signs or ring chasers:
OPJ? Bjeli? or similar ring-chasing vet equivalent.
Andre would probably get the 15th, if he wanted it. Sounds like they'd want him on the bench if he's willing to return, for player coaching, if nothing else.
Since there's a slight question mark, I'm guessing they'd push RR to a 2-way or 14th slot if a really great backup ball-handler wants in. Kemba?
If OPJ or Bjeli goes elsewhere, then I'm guessing the criteria for those last two spots are going to be 2-4's who can stretch the floor and play good D. Penetration would be a plus, but probably not as important as basketball IQ. That's why OPJ and Bjeli could just claim those two spots, but if a vet FA that's a significant upgrade over Bjeli shows interest or if OPJ gets priced out of the TPMLE, then I'm guessing that's who they look for.
watching those videos reminded me of how good that team was. this year was fun to watch, and I loved seeing the dubs prevail against long odds, and overcome adversity (seeing Klay knock down threes brought tears to my eyes), but that 2017 team was unreal.
I really appreciate your positive take on KD's tenure with the Dubs. I agree wholeheartedly. I don't resent KD for leaving for whatever personal reasons he had. He was always a good soldier for the Dubs.
Also appreciate the reposting of your 2017 article. It was actually useful information and not garbage which is what informs most commentators.
[Charania] Brooklyn Nets star Kyrie Irving is opting into his $37 million player option for the 2022-23 season, @TheAthletic @Stadium has learned. Irving is bypassing on multiple opt-in and trade scenarios to fulfill his four-year commitment to the Nets and Kevin Durant.
[Charania] Kyrie Irving: “Normal people keep the world going, but those who dare to be different lead us into tomorrow. I’ve made my decision to opt in. See you in the fall. A11even.”
Jun 28, 2022·edited Jun 28, 2022Liked by Eric Apricot
I know this sounds trite, but it's a team sport. The whole "whose team is it?" macho posturing has always seemed silly to me. (I do know that Eric isn't doing that, it's all good.) But these long debates elsewhere about whether a team had one person as alpha or beta miss the point utterly. LeBron won a ring in 2016 and was the best player, but if you'd have put him out there without Tristan Thompson Richard Jefferson Matthew Dellavadova, etc. he'd have just been quintuple-teamed. 2017 it wasn't Steph's team, it wasn't KD's team. I guess it was Joe Lacob's team.
I think most of us can acknowledge that Durant brought plenty to the dynasty and was a worthy fMVP. I think the frustration is that certain fans and pundits just refuse to give Curry his due. Even after this recent championship and fMVP for Steph, they refer back to 16-17 and17-18 as the years that the Ws were Durant's team and claim that he clearly "drove the bus" (a terminology and imagery I abhor). Now that he's won a championship without Durant (never mind that he did that in 14-15 as well), they can, at last, acknowledge that this is his team. It's ludicrous.
Who was the offense designed around? What was the plus/minus like for teammates when they were on/off the floor? What was the win-loss record like when they were playing vs. when they were injured? Who did they choose to double on ALL of those pick-and-rolls when Curry and Durant ran it together? Why are defenders leaving Durant for dunks to guard Curry at the three-point line? Honest observers know the answers to all of these questions is that Steph was the key. Durant himself said so: Steph /is/ the system.
That's not to diminish Durant's greatness. He created his own offense and was virtually unstoppable in the days when Steph could still be bullied by physical play. He was an important safety valve and contributor to the championships.
But I don't know that I believe that the Ws couldn't have won those championships without him. It's counterfactual, so we'll never know, but if they had gotten a non-Durant upgrade to Harrison Barnes, don't you suspect that would have been enough?
The Great Stephen Curry vs Kevin Durant Debate (2017 Finals)
It almost feels like the 2022 championship has stoked even more "anti-KD" sentiment from some dubs fans, when personally I feel the opposite way. The 2022 win again validated Curry is the best currently doing it, against a healthy opponent, and he has now done it twice without KD (for those keeping score, KD has 0 without Curry). For me the gap is so significant now that I feel even more comfortable praising KD without feeling conflicted about it.
2017 finals KD had one of the most insane performances ever. Yes, a lot of that was because he played for the Warriors, and specifically had Curry absorbing so much defensive attention. But he averaged what, 35 pts on 70% TS?? Barnes played the same position against the same team, and benefited from the same gravity and scored 9.3 pts on 43% TS or thereabouts in the previous finals. So to act like they are interchangable is just delusional.
It is indisputable that KD helped the Warriors win the 2017 and 2018 championships. Would they have won with someone else in his place? Maybe, but that is a weird question that we don't seem to apply to any other champions. Are there debates about whether 96-98 Bulls would win without Rodman? I don't know, it's just a weird/pointless question to ask, any champion probably wouldn't win without one of their top players. And what is really the point of theorizing whether they would or not?? Just be happy that the guy was on the team!
I remember prior years and organizing lists of free agents in an excel spreadsheet. This year, the only free agent list I have is guys on our own team. Last year's haul of Andre, OPJ, Beli and the last minute add of GP2 was an A+ off season, considering we are talking about 4 minimum contracts for a group of players who all played roles in a Chip.
I believe winning the Chip this year has altered the Dub's thinking going into next year. With #4 in hand, I feel like the Warriors are going to fast track development and install a load management program for the core that should remain in place for the rest of their careers.
Thus, what we are looking for is Wiseman, JFK & Moody to outperform the production we got from Andre-OPJ-Beli last year. Of course, their production will be filled with rookie mistakes. But I am guessing that's the plan. If Meyers is able to keep one of Andre-OPJ-Beli after taking care of Looney and GP2, I would consider this off season a huge win.
If John Wall indeed joins Clippers and Kawhi+PG are healthy, does that put them ahead of Dubs in Warriors Invitational?
or
Should I be thinking "Patrick please, ..." (GOZ reference).
Having Bball withdrawals so have to settle for impersonations
GPII (no head scratch!)
https://mobile.twitter.com/maxisnicee/status/1537494409423380481
Steph (I've seen better)
https://twitter.com/maxisnicee/status/1537241014657638402?s=20&t=rWHHytSScYqkDZijeJA4gA
Looney (Should hopefully bring his market value down so we can keep him)
https://mobile.twitter.com/maxisnicee/status/1536092649152598016
Bonus: Hadn't seen this from the parade before!!
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrGuru_/status/1539397806934347777
So from the Slater article, it looks like this will be the probable roster:
Guards: Steph/Klay/JP/RR
Wings: GP2/Wiggs/MM/JK
Bigs: Dray/Wise/Looney/PBJ
He said, they could leave the 15th open, and that backup ball-handler and traditional 5 are unlikely.
That leaves 2 spots for 2 re-signs or ring chasers:
OPJ? Bjeli? or similar ring-chasing vet equivalent.
Andre would probably get the 15th, if he wanted it. Sounds like they'd want him on the bench if he's willing to return, for player coaching, if nothing else.
Since there's a slight question mark, I'm guessing they'd push RR to a 2-way or 14th slot if a really great backup ball-handler wants in. Kemba?
If OPJ or Bjeli goes elsewhere, then I'm guessing the criteria for those last two spots are going to be 2-4's who can stretch the floor and play good D. Penetration would be a plus, but probably not as important as basketball IQ. That's why OPJ and Bjeli could just claim those two spots, but if a vet FA that's a significant upgrade over Bjeli shows interest or if OPJ gets priced out of the TPMLE, then I'm guessing that's who they look for.
watching those videos reminded me of how good that team was. this year was fun to watch, and I loved seeing the dubs prevail against long odds, and overcome adversity (seeing Klay knock down threes brought tears to my eyes), but that 2017 team was unreal.
I really appreciate your positive take on KD's tenure with the Dubs. I agree wholeheartedly. I don't resent KD for leaving for whatever personal reasons he had. He was always a good soldier for the Dubs.
Also appreciate the reposting of your 2017 article. It was actually useful information and not garbage which is what informs most commentators.
John Wall, Kawhi Leonard, and Paul George. That team is either going to be really good or really injured.
The Celtics still have a 17.1m trade exception.
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/1541606320930885632
Clips blow their MLE that they could have used on Hartenstein on … John Wall? Okay…
[Charania] Brooklyn Nets star Kyrie Irving is opting into his $37 million player option for the 2022-23 season, @TheAthletic @Stadium has learned. Irving is bypassing on multiple opt-in and trade scenarios to fulfill his four-year commitment to the Nets and Kevin Durant.
[Charania] Kyrie Irving: “Normal people keep the world going, but those who dare to be different lead us into tomorrow. I’ve made my decision to opt in. See you in the fall. A11even.”
I know this sounds trite, but it's a team sport. The whole "whose team is it?" macho posturing has always seemed silly to me. (I do know that Eric isn't doing that, it's all good.) But these long debates elsewhere about whether a team had one person as alpha or beta miss the point utterly. LeBron won a ring in 2016 and was the best player, but if you'd have put him out there without Tristan Thompson Richard Jefferson Matthew Dellavadova, etc. he'd have just been quintuple-teamed. 2017 it wasn't Steph's team, it wasn't KD's team. I guess it was Joe Lacob's team.
Wall buyout coming soon. Probably signing with the Clippers (or Lakers).
Does Slater's article talk about whether Rollins is considered a 15 spot roster guy or not?
I don't understand why they don't just get him on a 2 way.
Checking out some Baldwin high school stuff, look at this beautiful pass (2:51 if the link is not timestamped properly):
https://youtu.be/xDtqkCKeZsk?t=172
Brilliant analysis.
I think most of us can acknowledge that Durant brought plenty to the dynasty and was a worthy fMVP. I think the frustration is that certain fans and pundits just refuse to give Curry his due. Even after this recent championship and fMVP for Steph, they refer back to 16-17 and17-18 as the years that the Ws were Durant's team and claim that he clearly "drove the bus" (a terminology and imagery I abhor). Now that he's won a championship without Durant (never mind that he did that in 14-15 as well), they can, at last, acknowledge that this is his team. It's ludicrous.
Who was the offense designed around? What was the plus/minus like for teammates when they were on/off the floor? What was the win-loss record like when they were playing vs. when they were injured? Who did they choose to double on ALL of those pick-and-rolls when Curry and Durant ran it together? Why are defenders leaving Durant for dunks to guard Curry at the three-point line? Honest observers know the answers to all of these questions is that Steph was the key. Durant himself said so: Steph /is/ the system.
That's not to diminish Durant's greatness. He created his own offense and was virtually unstoppable in the days when Steph could still be bullied by physical play. He was an important safety valve and contributor to the championships.
But I don't know that I believe that the Ws couldn't have won those championships without him. It's counterfactual, so we'll never know, but if they had gotten a non-Durant upgrade to Harrison Barnes, don't you suspect that would have been enough?