Coach Kerr: “Trayce Jackson-Davis is wise beyond his years. Kissing my ass in public is exactly the kind of initiative we’re looking for in our young players.”
The under-reported part of that saga is that the Adelson clan Cuban is selling to is a ruthless, ultra-right-wing gambling empire. Looking forward to the in-depth congressional hearings on game fixing if / when the dark ages end, a decade or two down the line.
Wish we had MEM on the baseball series when Ja was out. I wouldn't be surprised to see them rip off like 10-15 straight to jump right back into the playoff slots
Here's one player that was frequently mentioned in the last decade: Andre Drummond. Someone on GSoM wanted the Warriors to draft him instead of Barnes.
I don't think it's crazy, but I'm not sure it's the best move either. To me it's not about all those intangibles such as contracts and podcasts. It's a question of do we win more games if we do that. And my best guess is yes, but I also think it's matchup dependent.
This is as good a time as any to go on a rant about starting. I think it's dumb that the issue of who starts ever got the hype it does -- which I don't blame on DNHQ or the Dubs. I get that better players should generally play more, but starting doesn't mean all that much. it's funny how every time a coach says hey Manu hey Iguodala, come off the bench, they are treated as some new form of genius, but then no one else does it.
I think there's a lot of potential for a coach to take it in a different direction and play two superstars when other teams rest them and run the score up so high that they win more even though they don't do well in the first quarter. The element of surprise type of thing.
I was going to make a comment or pose a question in a similar fashion. I find it strange that it is seen as starters vs non-starters.
I was hoping someone with more basketball knowledge than me could answer that question of: why not stagger the super stars? Especially when you have a team this supposedly deep?
Like it or not, being a “starter” is ingrained as a big deal into players heads at the earliest levels of competitive team sports, just as being “benched” is an indicator that you’re not as good.
Before the game, they don’t turn down the house lights, turn up the music, start a video tribute and shoot fireworks while the PA announcer goes crazy announcing the bench guys.
For one, Iguodala wasn't the second best player on the team when he was benched.
For another, the Curry/Klay/Barnes/Green/Bogut lineup was dominant, and this Curry/Podz/Klay/Kuminga/Looney lineup has a -8.2 net rating in 78 minutes.
I can't really see the case for benching Draymond.
To be fair our Draymond lineups haven’t been great this year either, but the only one that has significant minutes played really is our OG starting lineup which you could argue is more attributable to Wiggs and Klay’s slow start than Draymond.
Who would you start? Just swap Dray in for Kuminga? I noticed a lot of his good lineups this year with any minutes seem to include Moody so maybe a Curry/Moody/Klay/Dray/Looney?
The starting lineup is tricky, I just think Draymond is one of the non-tricky parts about it and he and Curry are there in any iteration.
The only ideal solution for the starting lineup is for Wiggins to play better and win his spot back, which is why I really don't see why any Warriors fans are up in arms about Wiggins getting more opportunities than other players who haven't been a key starter on a title team.
If not, I'd lean toward starting GP2 (who has historically been excellent when paired with Curry) and then doing Looney/TJD by committee and seeing how that goes. But it's not as good a solution as Wiggins starting and playing well.
I think this goes along with the whole two timelines thing. Suddenly the 2nd timeline is surpassing the 1st timeline. So who gets minutes diminished and who gets put in the “second” unit.
I hope Kerr is able to navigate this without making the young guys want to leave.
How does a front office/coach navigate this? You have one superstar older guy, two very good older guys (slightly less dominant than before), four very good younger guys, and wiggs.
I guess the more irgent wuestion is how do you make a legitament championship push with this group…
Maybe I’m starting to feel more attached to the young guys than I have since… 2014…
I think that's what they'll do first regardless to make sure Drays both physically and spiritually ready to play, particularly so if the Warriors are convincingly good in the lead up. That said, we'll know how likely that change is based off what Kerr does with Wiggins. Further down in the thread, someone posted a summary of an interview Kerr gave where he mentioned potentially returning Andrew to the starting lineup; if that ends up happening and JK (or Podz tbf) gets put back in the second line, then I'd be much more pessimistic that any changes are permanent.
I also think Draymond is at his best with Curry/ a high gravity player, which wasn't necessarily true for Andre back then. So it could just be inevitable that Steve puts Draymond back in with the starters, since that's the clearest way to maximizing Draymond-Curry minutes (which should still be our best two-man pairing despite it's weirdly janky results to start the year)
Draymond does seem to look for Steph more often than anyone else on the team. With this current starting lineup, it seems like the focus is on getting everyone else involved while the shots Steph takes is off the dribble.
Yeah, and if Green is on it, he unlocks a lot of the better aspects of Curry's game. His D gets us in transition, and he's a one man cover in transition when we have a live-ball turnover. His decision making is also the platonic ideal that Kerr wants imo, and that really syncs up with Curry's propensity for making small, fleeting advantages.
Problem is, one of Dray's primary values is that Dray is a primary ballhandler and CP is already a primary ballhandler. Having both Dray and CP together on the floor is sub-optimal, IMO, since both players have a lot of their value as players tied into a role they share.
But that's not Dray's strength. He's better handling the ball and shooting the 3-pointer mostly when he's left wide open and has no open shooters. I haven't looked at his shot chart but going from memory, he is rarely hitting 3s in the corner, more often at the elbow or top. I don't have a high degree of confidence in Dray with CP3 but I guess if Kerr wants to try it, I wouldn't object — for awhile.
Speaking of “be nice” i just deleted my Reddit account and unlike X, im pretty confident ill stay away. It is an absolute cesspool of Me: hey i respectfully disagree. They: well you’re a f**** idiot
Reddit has always only been useful for super niche topics or after someone collects the useful reference/ reading lists. Any general board gets super toxic; I know my mental health improves whenever I stop using it lol
Yeah i mean there is defn some useful info but i always get the
A). “We have the worst drivers in the country” in my local city reddit thread.
And B) (also the reason i quit) is posting a question or a concern about MY experience and how it personally made me feel and being told that Im wrong. It’s my freaking experience!
Well your experience is obviously wrong ;) yeah both are great reasons to not use it.
It had very useful info when I started transitioning, and I use it to get an initial set of recs for any topic I'm researching, but the city reddits I've been on usually devolve into pretty dark places, and the higher level of anonymity seems to encourage people to be more rude and dismissive than I'm okay with. I'm sorry your experiences were minimized, even if it's dumb more than anything else that still speaks to a badly functioning community
Things I Actually Think, That Would Probably Greatly Annoy Great Swaths Of DubNation.
1. I find Mark Jackson's analysis of the Warriors during broadcasts to be pretty evenhanded, at times downright gracious.
2. I also don't think any refs have it in for the Warriors.
3. Our commentators are not in the top 5 worst homer broadcasting crews. And that's only counting the Celtics once, which feels mathematically incorrect to me.
4. I also don't mind Jeff Van Gundy.
5. The We Believe Warriors were a super fun team to watch, a great story, and, if kept together, probably wouldn't have made the playoffs the next year.
6. To casually refer to Andre Iguodala as an NBA Finals MVP is to disqualify yourself from adult conversations. No, the Warriors wouldn't have won without him. Or Klay, or Draymond. To say that a team wouldn't win a championship without Player X does not mean Player X is the MVP, unless you are a bad writer.
7. Draymond Green made sports worse by recruiting Kevin Durant, even though the resulting Finals series was the most skilled matchup between teams that I have ever seen in 40 years of watching basketball, and either team would beat the MJendlessdebataBulls. Still a lost season for those of us who like basketball games more than parades. Also, when someone beats you because You Were An Idiot, you Run It Back.
I'll agree to disagree. MJ may have become more even handed recently, but for years after leaving the dubs his coverage was very snarky. As for Van Gundy, the mute button on my remote has a picture of him pasted over it so I can smash it with my thumb every time he starts whining about how the rules should be different (which is most of the time).
#7 is a super interesting hot take - I think that the years with KD on the Warriors really screwed up what were reasonably expectations for me as a fan going into any given NBA season - and based on some of what I still believe (and often read on these comment sections) is still in my bloodstream - basically that the Warriors are untouchable and that anything other than another championship is a catastrophic failure.
Much more interesting to watch them these days, but stressful as hell.
2. One exception is that now Chris Paul is a Warrior, and he and Scott Foster clearly and openly have it in for each other. Whether that carries over to other Warriors is open to question. I'm not a Foster fan though so not impartial.
4. I don't care for Jeff Van Gundy's broadcasting. You are welcome to him.
6. I am not sure what you're saying. Igoudala was named the 2015 Finals MVP.
7. It was more than Draymond recruiting KD, it was an effort by all of the core, including Dray, Steph, Klay, and Igoudala — hence the Hamptons 5. Obviously Myers and Kerr were in it too. And I think it was fantastic and in no way made basketball worse. We saw some great basketball, not to mention the titles. Other teams' fans were salty but that's because they wanted KD on their team and didn't get him. Oh well. Such is the life of a fan.
I have admittedly cherry-picked the takes most likely to be most vexing to my fellow Warriors fans.... but yes, the CP3 vs. Foster thing does seem to be a Thing.
Regarding #6, I think that vote was egregious enough to require a verbal asterisk whenever discussing Resumes and Legacies and such. Like it was someone other than Curry who was warping the entire Cavs defense and demanding the constant attention that allowed other players to shoot wide open practice threes in a Finals game. Thus my overreaction to deny the adulthood/humanity of those who do not engage in a lengthy and boring series of qualifying statements before acknowledging that yes, Andre technicallybutnotactually was the Finals MVP.
Your original statement "To casually refer to Andre Iguodala as an NBA Finals MVP is to disqualify yourself from adult conversations." was the best line I've read so far in this thread. I liked your clarification, but I knew that was what you meant.
It does seem to get the general ordering for how I've felt about each player pretty well if you account for position. Like the only one I would potentially quibble about is JK, but he's taken a step up recently
I am with GlueAndBold on this. Loon's rating = Steph's rating is meaningful? 🤣 If we're considering value to a winning team, I would put Looney much further down the list this season. Klay is a tale of two runs so far; the earlier hot mess and the more recent "found his shot" Klay — though admittedly it's not as neat a division as that, with games each way in between.
I think you might have misread my statement Attila :) I'm not saying the actual values are useful or that comparing our useful-but-limited center to the goat by this one metric makes any sense. I'm saying that, within position, it seems somewhat reasonable. i.e. TJD has outclassed our other two in the time he's had, Looney has looked worse but his defense hasn't been as bad as most feel and he's still a rebound hound, and Saric is about as good as Looney. For guards, Curry is still the goat, CP3 has been super effective, BP has been surprisingly great, Klay has had an okay season (with major peaks making up for his initial crater) and CoJo isn't a player we want getting hella minutes.
Anyone using this to say TJD has been better than Curry should think a bit more, but within position it seems to capture at least a little bit of reality imo
That works better for me, though I didn't need "win shares per 48" to realize it! The eye test told the same story you are describing (TJD's value vs Loon and Saric), although really those three bring different skills. Agreed about Curry, CP3, BP, and Klay. Again, I didn't need win shares to see that; it's pretty obvious just watching the games.
This is not to denigrate the GOAT, but Steph has definitely lost something this season. The stats alone tell some of the story. He is rebounding and assisting less and not shooting as well. I imagine it has something to do with the new rotations and adapting to different players like the Podz and CP3. He is still our hero and have no problem believing that he can still win games but he is also aging.
TJD deserves more minutes than he has actually gotten and so does Saric. Saric was a tremendous pickup and fulfills his role extremely well. Kerr is still gumming up the works. Can you teach an old dog new tricks?
I wonder how much of Steph's declined assist and rebound numbers can be attributed to the fact that he's playing a fair number of minutes with Paul and Podz, who are going to swipe a fair number of assists and rebounds, respectively. Nothing cracks me up more than watching a Podz/Looney lineup where the two collide in search of more and more rebounds.
Agree that Steph might be on the beginning of his decline; last I checked his assist to turnover ratio was alarmingly low and he's had a higher percentage of bad "how'd he do that" plays to good. Otoh he's still the best player on the team imo, and the high WS supports that. I remain agnostic about the rotations; this staff is still hella talented (I'd assume) and I don't think Kerr is making these decisions alone, nor has he ever done so.
Certainly argues for starting JK over Wiggs and Moody over Klay. What I really would love to see is Player Impact Plus Minus (PIPM) but I don't have access to that.
Yeah PIPM would be good. More generally, I favor stats that actually use the scoreboard on/off directly rather than attempt to model it through the box score, although any given metric needs to be used in context :)
Steph, Klay, Kuminga, Saric, TJD/Looney is a rotation I would like to see used. We become big and still have scorers from all over the floor. That takes care of our size disadvantage. Then plug in various players to matchup with whoever is on the floor after substitutions. Although I like Podz starting, he is a player that is not dependent on starting. He plays the same if he comes off the bench. Energy, CP3, Wiggs, Draymond (if he is still with the team), and choose the rest. Plenty of opportunity for everyone. Kerr would probably never do this. He is our problem for the future.
On this team, don't they both play the 3 and the 4? Also, I'm not the one who needs convincing. Coach Kerr seems to think they can't be played together.
Kuminga plays pretty sparingly at the 3 I think, he's played the vast majority of his minutes at the 4. Wiggins does play at the 4, but he doesn't start there if Draymond is active, he starts at the 3.
Looking through the lineups GSW has used this season, a Kuminga/Saric/TJD lineup has played 17 minutes together this season. Saric/Looney/Kuminga and Saric/Green/Kuminga have technically played together but nba.com has both lineups at 0 minutes played, so it couldn't have been more than 30 seconds for either one.
Kuminga has played 628 minutes this season, so those lineups account for about 3% of his minutes. There are murkier situations like when he shares the floor with Wiggins but eh, I don't think that's enough to say that Kerr views him as a 3.
Dec 27, 2023·edited Dec 27, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot
Kerr with an interview today that addressed the challenges of balancing a busy roster had some notable points:
1. He's super happy with the new Wiggins post-benching, thought he was our best player against Denver, may need to start him again soon.
2. Considers that many years it's obvious who the top 9-10 guys are, this year it's not; which is good, but that's a challenge for coaching staff, to balance it all.
3. Considers CP and Dario the constants on the second unit and others have been sort of worked in around them.
4. Regarding Kuminga recently discussing his desire to play more, and in more clutch situations, Kerr said, "I don't mind those comments at all. Every guy wants to play and JK's a really talented guy."
5. So far has not seen it work to play Wiggins and Kuminga together and has numbers to back it up. However, "if we can put the right guys around them,:" it might yet work due to their athleticism and dynamism.
I'm gonna quote the whole Kerr answer to the Wiggs/JK question, b/c I think there's a lot of nuance there:
"I think it's something we will try with some new people around them. Their numbers are not good together, frankly. They're very redundant. The tape and the numbers haven't been great. We recognize, too, that we have a level that we need to get to to really compete at the highest level. And if those two guys can co-exist on the floor, it does give us an elevated athleticism and elevated potential, but we have to find the right combination of people around those two."
Firstly, Wiggs has been brutal most of the season, so I bet most 2 person combinations who's minutes are primarily drawn from the pre-benching of Wiggs minutes will be pretty brutal. However, since the benching, Wiggs has played better, and since Steve has intermixed non-JK starters in with Wiggs since then, other players 2 person +/- numbers have ticked upwards as Wiggs has improved. So, IMO, Steve is working off a poor sample if he's judging based on pre-benching Wiggs performance.
Secondly, if both Wiggs and JK are hitting their 3's, which they both have been recently, then it definitely feels like he should be able to find room for them both. In order for them both to play simultaneously, they both have to be 3-pt threats the other team needs to want to challenge. They may not draw the attention Steph/Klay/or even Podz do, but they have to draw more defensive attention then Dray or Loon.
I know you don’t want to run Draymond at the 5 for too long but I don’t even mean just as a closing lineup. Stevie, how bout trying it for more than 30 seconds this season? 😬
It feels like this is part of the problem. Tip-toe'ing around Klay's ego. Klay should not have closed the DEN game. He was lackadaisical and lazy on defense. He was greedy and single-minded on offense. It was pathetic. And Steve needs to have the balls to bench him when he's not playing well. He needs to be able to say that the one time benching was not a slap on the wrist. If Klay is playing shitty, he needs to be on the pine.
It’s a huge part of the problem. It creates the double standard JK and Moody have had to deal with of being held accountable for shit that Klay gets away with.
Yes. We've said over and over that Steph is the only player that should get a pass, but Steve obviously has Klay on that same list, and I fear that Dray also goes on that list. And it's been obvious this season that Klay has had a very very up and down year.
Honestly, it's very likely the Dubs win in Denver if Klay is benched.
Full reply to "Wiggs anchoring the second unit" question:
"The way I look at it, Chris and Dario anchor the second group. ... That unit is really based around them. Wiggs has really given that group another attacker and post-up guy... that's what we need from Wiggs. He can do that with the starting group, too. If he keeps playing well, he very well could end up back with the starting lineup. But we're just taking it day by day."
I don't read that as "We may need to start him again." More as, "I like what I'm seeing now, and sure, anything can happen."
If Podz keeps playing like this, I think he keeps starting even after Draymond gets back. He and Curry haven’t together don’t look overmatched and Podz just fills so many needs.
Agreed. He does the "push the pace (but not recklessly)" thing that Draymond is good at; he's a dogged defender in transition, against the point of attack, and as a help defender sharking the passing lanes; he punishes defenses that sag off him from 3, but can also initiate action with Steph off-ball; AND he rebounds the ball. Oh, also, while he's no Loon or Dray in this regard, he sets harder screens than KD ever did lol
Yeah. Wigs could be performing better BECAUSE he is coming off the bench, not because now he's found "it" so let's put him back in the spotlights under which he has historically withered.
2021-2022 playoffs don't feel like ancient history to me. I think the "post-punch Draymond being present makes him feel bad" argument makes at least as much sense as the "withers under the spotlight" argument.
I do not and never have bought the Punch as a reason for Wiggins' performance. I think his history shows his excellent performances earlier with us to be outliers compared to his overall career trajectory. Those outlier performances do show what he COULD do but the overall picture is that he doesn't consistently stay at that higher level. Maybe he can get back to it; he has shown signs at times. But I see no evidence that the Punch ever had anything to do with it.
It might not be the punch, but feeling more relaxed and confident without Draymond around doesn’t seem that far-fetched. Obviously, Draymond is very intense and Wiggins might not be wired to handle it well.
He’s great as a third option. That’s the diff between Warriors Wiggins vs Minny Wiggins. He’s been on a parade of weird unfortunate circumstances since going out with an adductor injury, busted his ankle in 3-on-3, got sick, out for personal reasons, busted rib, messed up offseason, busted finger, sick again… he’s shown more consistent signs of returning to form lately, I have no idea why people wouldn’t believe in his ability to regain the form he had from 21/22 through early 22/23. Maybe he settles at 38% from 3 instead of 45%, but he’s coming.
> I have no idea why people wouldn’t believe in his ability to regain the form he had from 21/22 through early 22/23.
Maybe because we are aware of his form from 2013/14 through 19/20, and Butler's concerns about Wigs' commitment to winning.
Remember after the Celtics series Wigs said "Wow, I guess I can rebound! I am committed to rebounding better"? In his 9th year in the league? Rebounds per game in 20/21=4.9. RPG in 21/22=4.5. And after that revelation? 22/23 rebounds per game, 5.0. Wow! One-tenth of a rebound more per game after such "commitment." Stop the presses.
This isn't to cr@p all over him. He's a nice rotation piece that you can put into a starter role if needed owing to injury or matchup (e.g., a Canadian opponent, a game against Minny). Now, I'd love for Wigs to prove us wrong. However, it is just to say he is unreliable game to game and year to year, and it seems he has no commitment to becoming a reliable player, aka, a star. Better to invest in a player who has a good excuse for unreliability (youth) and wants to be a star, aka, reliable, than an 11-year vet with that career-long record of unreliability.
To be clear, I don't see much evidence for that either, other than the possible fact that he seems to be performing better lately without Draymond. My point was that I don't think there's much evidence to support him not playing well under the spotlight, but hey, I wasn't a Wolves fan during his dark period, so I'm not exactly attuned to most of his career.
Wiggins started out really well post-punch last season with Draymond on the team and on the floor until he got hurt, doesn't really square well this theory.
Is there infighting? I think we're all in agreement that he's the on that got away, although I'm kinda okay with him developing elsewhere bc that means we get to watch him more per game than he'd have been playing for the W's
I feel like Eric should have titled this something like: “your personal invitation to fight club - remember to load up on the magic cookies to keep things civil”
1. Who is the best player ever/ who is on your Mount Rushmore?
2. Analytics are/aren't ruining the game.
3. Soft new rules and threes have ruined the game, or made it much better.
4. The players are so rich that they are spoiled and don't try, and player empowerment means that they control too much of their destiny; or: they have earned every dollar and deserve their power as much as owners do.
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Referees are crooked and the league has an agenda to help certain teams for revenue vs. that's a lot of hooey.
7. That's not a foul. And that's a travel.
8. Let's compare players and teams from different eras and argue who is better, Wilt or Doncic. Or, you know, let's not.
9. You have to have a mean mug and a nasty attitude and foul hard if you want to succeed as a player or a team. It's both necessary and admirable. Or, you know: Steph.
10. The fans in that city are jerks or don't care enough or don't understand the game.
Regarding 10: I can get behind certain teams having a disproportionate percentage of jerky fans, even if I acknowledge nobody will agree on which teams/ how large that list is 😉
But what stands out when watching Herro is that he has been turning his second biggest liability (his first is injuries) into a strength.
In his first four NBA seasons, especially in the playoffs, Herro was the player opponents hunted when they had the ball — he was such a weak defender that game plans forced him into switches and difficult pick-and-rolls.
So far in this campaign, Herro is averaging a career-best 1.3 steals per game, is generally more active in passing lanes and is a bigger contributor to the Heat’s defensive plans. He opened the Christmas game with a chase-down block on Kelly Oubre Jr. and produced a steal in addition to his 22 points.
“He’s reading the game very well,” Heat coach Erik Spoelstra said of Herro. “He continues to improve on both sides of the floor, and I think it’s due to him being an ambitious player who wants to impact the game. He wants to impact winning. He wants to be known as a winning player. And the winning players do it on both ends of the court. He’s fully embracing that.”
That's what I was hoping would happen for another newly well paid fifth year guard out of Wisconsin. Still can't understand how JP can go out there and not care that he is one of the worst defenders in the league. Given the rest of his approach to the game, I really expected he'd work on that and figure out how to play at least average, and to at least care and give some effort, by last year, but instead he got worse. Literally the opposite of "wanting to be known as a winning player". Well, Wes Jr. gets to deal with it now.
FWIW, Poole is averaging a career best 1.1 steals per game, steals are generally poor indicators of real defense. If Spo says Herro is playing better defense, that’s a stronger indicator… but Herro’s defensive rating is worse than ever (another imperfect indicator, but better than steals, imo)
I remember when we all thought he'd put up big scoring numbers as the #1 option for the Wizards. Turns out, he's playing fewer minutes with them (29.6 minutes per game) than last year with the Dubs (30.0) and his scoring has dropped from 20.4 to 17.9.
Contributing to winning a championship could have played a part. Already reaching the pinnacle of the sport and then rewarded with a lucrative contract. There isn't any reason to improve unless its to be one of the best in the game.
Yeah, just hard for me to understand how you get as far as he did, yet do not have the inner competitiveness to want to not be a laughingstock on D when it is something under your control. Well, that's why there is room in the league for guys like Podz, whose gaf factor is at 100.
Some guys just want the glamour of being a "bucket". That's what separates guys in this league. That's why only a few can be considered one of the greats despite most of them being pretty close in physical talent.
I think its extremely difficult to project JP's post-title year performance given the punch. We do not know what JP the Dubs would have had had Dray been a teammate happy for the young fellas growth instead of an egomaniac threatened by someone else's success.
Do we? We know what JP the dubs had before he was punched, signed a bag, won a championship, and was playing on a very good, very defensively solid team. We also know what JP we had after most of those things too, as well as what JP looks like with a bag on a terrible team.
I'd guess JP would care more about defense if the Wizards were a serious team, but that's based off hope and his play during the title run more than anything. I prefer to give him ownership over his future rather than blame Dray for all of Poole's weaknesses as a player
Regarding trades: I don't think the Warriors should be looking to make a trade right now. The trade value of any guys the team might want to get rid of is pretty low right now; I expect only the rookies, Kuminga, Chris Paul, or Steph would be likely to bring back much value. Maybe Klay because of his expiring contract, but it would probably be more than one guy to match salaries and we already have a problem of being too deep but not dependable enough.
The team's not bad enough to blow it up (and we don't have our own pick this year anyway) so we can rule out trading Steph, and I don't see us getting back a player for Klay who's a better fit, even with Klay's decline. Likewise with CP3, which leaves just Kuminga. JK's salary is low enough that he'd need to be accompanied by a bigger contact that really cuts into the net value of the trade.
Honestly I think our best bet is to wait things out and let the guys we already have get over whatever's wrong with them rather than rush to make a trade in because you feel like you have to do "something".
All of that, plus if you do make a trade, don't expect the new player(s) to instantly mesh. Don't take for granted the amount that JK already works well in the system. Not perfectly, but you can't tell me that Siakam already knows how to run a DHO so that he gets it to Steph in the exact place he wants it. It's midseason, that stuff matters. CP is still getting used to it and he's a point god
This is probably the biggest reason Myers et al. haven't traded for major talent mid-season. It's hard to replicate the what the Lakers did last year considering we have a more complicated system than "give it to Lebron/ AD and drive and kick"
Thanks, that makes sense to me. Intuitively, the teams that win a finals usually aren't the teams so uncertain about their rotation that they need to trade for someone to fit into it mid season
I hope we can permanently rule out trading Steph. There are no trades under the sun that could bring back enough to make it worth trading the greatest Warrior of all time, past present and future (in all likelihood). If the Warriors do that, I'd boycott the Warriors for a long time lol. Agreed on all your actual points though, mDuo.
If the team decides, "y'know what, we're fucked, time to go full tank" I could see sending Steph off somewhere he could still ball out as a mercy. Sort of like Dame from the Blazers this year. But I hope that never happens.
Trayce Jackson-Davis: “Coach Kerr is a player’s coach and whatever we need, he’s always helping us through situations.”
https://twitter.com/957thegame/status/1740136807134835056
Coach Kerr: “Trayce Jackson-Davis is wise beyond his years. Kissing my ass in public is exactly the kind of initiative we’re looking for in our young players.”
https://twitter.com/nonotreally/ijustmadethisasajoke12345
poor guy is in for a rude shock if we get anywhere near the playoffs!
Just realized Mark Cuban is unironically calling himself a ‘middle class billionaire’
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39194010/mark-cuban-says-sale-puts-mavs-better-position-compete
I assume by that he means that among billionaires, he's in the middle somewhere.
The under-reported part of that saga is that the Adelson clan Cuban is selling to is a ruthless, ultra-right-wing gambling empire. Looking forward to the in-depth congressional hearings on game fixing if / when the dark ages end, a decade or two down the line.
Yah, that's what I had thought. I think I read about them being tied to sports franchises before. Don't remember what sport it was, though.
Take them down
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
Such a humble perspective!
Wish we had MEM on the baseball series when Ja was out. I wouldn't be surprised to see them rip off like 10-15 straight to jump right back into the playoff slots
They got
@Nuggs
@Clips
Kings
Spurs
Raptors
@Lakers
@Suns
@Mavs
Clips
Knicks
Warriors
@Wolves
@Bulls
@Raptors
@Heat
I'd be surprised
I think Adonal Foyle should be on the list. Great guy, but there was plenty of argument about his value to the team back in the day.
Whenever I see that name come up I can't help think:
Billy Madison : O'Doyle, I've got a feeling your whole family's going down.
O'Doyle : O'Doyle rules!
Suns beat the Rockets. Boo.
Cavaliers without Mitchell, Mobley, Garland, and a few other players beat Mavs without Kleber and Kyrie. Yay.
So long Play-In, until we meet again
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Here's one player that was frequently mentioned in the last decade: Andre Drummond. Someone on GSoM wanted the Warriors to draft him instead of Barnes.
Well, Andre did just destroy the Hawks with Vucevic out. 24 points, 25 rebounds, three steals and two blocks.
If the Warriors continue to play well, would it be crazy to play Draymond off the bench in the Iggoudala Swiss Army Knife/ glue role?
* He’s two years older than Iggy was went he went to the bench.
* He profiles as the closest thing to Iggy; sky-high BBIQ playmaking defensive wiz, who’s a “coach on the floor”.
* He bragged on his podcast about telling Steve he should come off the bench for the good of the team.
* He’s not playing for a contract
You could start Curry, Podz, Klay, Kuminga and Looney (or TJD) with Dray leading the bench.
I wonder how it’s going to be with two coaches on the floor? And 12 on the sidelines.
I don't think it's crazy, but I'm not sure it's the best move either. To me it's not about all those intangibles such as contracts and podcasts. It's a question of do we win more games if we do that. And my best guess is yes, but I also think it's matchup dependent.
This is as good a time as any to go on a rant about starting. I think it's dumb that the issue of who starts ever got the hype it does -- which I don't blame on DNHQ or the Dubs. I get that better players should generally play more, but starting doesn't mean all that much. it's funny how every time a coach says hey Manu hey Iguodala, come off the bench, they are treated as some new form of genius, but then no one else does it.
I think there's a lot of potential for a coach to take it in a different direction and play two superstars when other teams rest them and run the score up so high that they win more even though they don't do well in the first quarter. The element of surprise type of thing.
I was going to make a comment or pose a question in a similar fashion. I find it strange that it is seen as starters vs non-starters.
I was hoping someone with more basketball knowledge than me could answer that question of: why not stagger the super stars? Especially when you have a team this supposedly deep?
Like it or not, being a “starter” is ingrained as a big deal into players heads at the earliest levels of competitive team sports, just as being “benched” is an indicator that you’re not as good.
Before the game, they don’t turn down the house lights, turn up the music, start a video tribute and shoot fireworks while the PA announcer goes crazy announcing the bench guys.
Wait, maybe you're on to something.....
For one, Iguodala wasn't the second best player on the team when he was benched.
For another, the Curry/Klay/Barnes/Green/Bogut lineup was dominant, and this Curry/Podz/Klay/Kuminga/Looney lineup has a -8.2 net rating in 78 minutes.
I can't really see the case for benching Draymond.
Who would you start if you were Kerr and none of your players’ egos or past accomplishments had to be taken into account?
Starters: CP3/Klay/Kuminga/Saric/TJD
Bench: Steph/Podz/Wiggins/Draymond/(Any of Looney/GP2/Moody depending on matchups)
To be fair our Draymond lineups haven’t been great this year either, but the only one that has significant minutes played really is our OG starting lineup which you could argue is more attributable to Wiggs and Klay’s slow start than Draymond.
Who would you start? Just swap Dray in for Kuminga? I noticed a lot of his good lineups this year with any minutes seem to include Moody so maybe a Curry/Moody/Klay/Dray/Looney?
The starting lineup is tricky, I just think Draymond is one of the non-tricky parts about it and he and Curry are there in any iteration.
The only ideal solution for the starting lineup is for Wiggins to play better and win his spot back, which is why I really don't see why any Warriors fans are up in arms about Wiggins getting more opportunities than other players who haven't been a key starter on a title team.
If not, I'd lean toward starting GP2 (who has historically been excellent when paired with Curry) and then doing Looney/TJD by committee and seeing how that goes. But it's not as good a solution as Wiggins starting and playing well.
I think this goes along with the whole two timelines thing. Suddenly the 2nd timeline is surpassing the 1st timeline. So who gets minutes diminished and who gets put in the “second” unit.
I hope Kerr is able to navigate this without making the young guys want to leave.
How does a front office/coach navigate this? You have one superstar older guy, two very good older guys (slightly less dominant than before), four very good younger guys, and wiggs.
I guess the more irgent wuestion is how do you make a legitament championship push with this group…
Maybe I’m starting to feel more attached to the young guys than I have since… 2014…
>>>>You have one superstar older guy, two very good older guys (slightly less dominant than before), four very good younger guys, and wiggs.
This inventory doesn’t even include Looney and GP2. Kerr really doesn’t have easy or obvious choices to make. .
I think that's what they'll do first regardless to make sure Drays both physically and spiritually ready to play, particularly so if the Warriors are convincingly good in the lead up. That said, we'll know how likely that change is based off what Kerr does with Wiggins. Further down in the thread, someone posted a summary of an interview Kerr gave where he mentioned potentially returning Andrew to the starting lineup; if that ends up happening and JK (or Podz tbf) gets put back in the second line, then I'd be much more pessimistic that any changes are permanent.
I also think Draymond is at his best with Curry/ a high gravity player, which wasn't necessarily true for Andre back then. So it could just be inevitable that Steve puts Draymond back in with the starters, since that's the clearest way to maximizing Draymond-Curry minutes (which should still be our best two-man pairing despite it's weirdly janky results to start the year)
Draymond does seem to look for Steph more often than anyone else on the team. With this current starting lineup, it seems like the focus is on getting everyone else involved while the shots Steph takes is off the dribble.
Yeah, and if Green is on it, he unlocks a lot of the better aspects of Curry's game. His D gets us in transition, and he's a one man cover in transition when we have a live-ball turnover. His decision making is also the platonic ideal that Kerr wants imo, and that really syncs up with Curry's propensity for making small, fleeting advantages.
Problem is, one of Dray's primary values is that Dray is a primary ballhandler and CP is already a primary ballhandler. Having both Dray and CP together on the floor is sub-optimal, IMO, since both players have a lot of their value as players tied into a role they share.
Not if Dray can camp in the corner and hit 3s at 40%…
But that's not Dray's strength. He's better handling the ball and shooting the 3-pointer mostly when he's left wide open and has no open shooters. I haven't looked at his shot chart but going from memory, he is rarely hitting 3s in the corner, more often at the elbow or top. I don't have a high degree of confidence in Dray with CP3 but I guess if Kerr wants to try it, I wouldn't object — for awhile.
Speaking of “be nice” i just deleted my Reddit account and unlike X, im pretty confident ill stay away. It is an absolute cesspool of Me: hey i respectfully disagree. They: well you’re a f**** idiot
OT: I did not think rebel Moon was nearly as bad as Last Airbender (live action).
I think you lowering my expectations helped me enjoy it for just being fun cliche sci space opera.
Glad to hear that lol. I have that third behind Last Airbender and Jupiter Ascending. It was that bad for me
Reddit has always only been useful for super niche topics or after someone collects the useful reference/ reading lists. Any general board gets super toxic; I know my mental health improves whenever I stop using it lol
Yeah i mean there is defn some useful info but i always get the
A). “We have the worst drivers in the country” in my local city reddit thread.
And B) (also the reason i quit) is posting a question or a concern about MY experience and how it personally made me feel and being told that Im wrong. It’s my freaking experience!
Well your experience is obviously wrong ;) yeah both are great reasons to not use it.
It had very useful info when I started transitioning, and I use it to get an initial set of recs for any topic I'm researching, but the city reddits I've been on usually devolve into pretty dark places, and the higher level of anonymity seems to encourage people to be more rude and dismissive than I'm okay with. I'm sorry your experiences were minimized, even if it's dumb more than anything else that still speaks to a badly functioning community
Super niche. Some subs definitely better than others. Reddit has its problems but there's lots to learn from the community there.
Things I Actually Think, That Would Probably Greatly Annoy Great Swaths Of DubNation.
1. I find Mark Jackson's analysis of the Warriors during broadcasts to be pretty evenhanded, at times downright gracious.
2. I also don't think any refs have it in for the Warriors.
3. Our commentators are not in the top 5 worst homer broadcasting crews. And that's only counting the Celtics once, which feels mathematically incorrect to me.
4. I also don't mind Jeff Van Gundy.
5. The We Believe Warriors were a super fun team to watch, a great story, and, if kept together, probably wouldn't have made the playoffs the next year.
6. To casually refer to Andre Iguodala as an NBA Finals MVP is to disqualify yourself from adult conversations. No, the Warriors wouldn't have won without him. Or Klay, or Draymond. To say that a team wouldn't win a championship without Player X does not mean Player X is the MVP, unless you are a bad writer.
7. Draymond Green made sports worse by recruiting Kevin Durant, even though the resulting Finals series was the most skilled matchup between teams that I have ever seen in 40 years of watching basketball, and either team would beat the MJendlessdebataBulls. Still a lost season for those of us who like basketball games more than parades. Also, when someone beats you because You Were An Idiot, you Run It Back.
I'll agree to disagree. MJ may have become more even handed recently, but for years after leaving the dubs his coverage was very snarky. As for Van Gundy, the mute button on my remote has a picture of him pasted over it so I can smash it with my thumb every time he starts whining about how the rules should be different (which is most of the time).
I did promise annoying viewpoints! I can't argue with any of this, but I just have an irrationally unbothered feeling about these guys.
#7 is a super interesting hot take - I think that the years with KD on the Warriors really screwed up what were reasonably expectations for me as a fan going into any given NBA season - and based on some of what I still believe (and often read on these comment sections) is still in my bloodstream - basically that the Warriors are untouchable and that anything other than another championship is a catastrophic failure.
Much more interesting to watch them these days, but stressful as hell.
3. I got all fired up and then I saw "homer." sure there are bigger homers, but our broadcasters are #1 worst overall!
Some good points here but...
2. One exception is that now Chris Paul is a Warrior, and he and Scott Foster clearly and openly have it in for each other. Whether that carries over to other Warriors is open to question. I'm not a Foster fan though so not impartial.
4. I don't care for Jeff Van Gundy's broadcasting. You are welcome to him.
6. I am not sure what you're saying. Igoudala was named the 2015 Finals MVP.
7. It was more than Draymond recruiting KD, it was an effort by all of the core, including Dray, Steph, Klay, and Igoudala — hence the Hamptons 5. Obviously Myers and Kerr were in it too. And I think it was fantastic and in no way made basketball worse. We saw some great basketball, not to mention the titles. Other teams' fans were salty but that's because they wanted KD on their team and didn't get him. Oh well. Such is the life of a fan.
I have admittedly cherry-picked the takes most likely to be most vexing to my fellow Warriors fans.... but yes, the CP3 vs. Foster thing does seem to be a Thing.
Regarding #6, I think that vote was egregious enough to require a verbal asterisk whenever discussing Resumes and Legacies and such. Like it was someone other than Curry who was warping the entire Cavs defense and demanding the constant attention that allowed other players to shoot wide open practice threes in a Finals game. Thus my overreaction to deny the adulthood/humanity of those who do not engage in a lengthy and boring series of qualifying statements before acknowledging that yes, Andre technicallybutnotactually was the Finals MVP.
Your original statement "To casually refer to Andre Iguodala as an NBA Finals MVP is to disqualify yourself from adult conversations." was the best line I've read so far in this thread. I liked your clarification, but I knew that was what you meant.
Hold on, we would be annoyed if someone said the we believe team WAS
Fun to watch?
I’m confused
Keep reading! The annoyance is there, later in the sentence! :)
Would not have made the playoffs? Gotchya ;)
Win Shares per 48 min, via BBRef, minimum 14 games (GP2 and CoJo have played exactly 14, Draymond 15):
1. TJD .184
T-2. Steph .160
T-2. Loooooooon .160
4. Saric .144 (<----- this is around the cutoff for top 50 in the NBA)
5. CP3 .132
6. Draymond .125
7. Moody .107
8. BP .106 (<----- still within top 100 in NBA)
9. GP2 .099
10. Kuminga .087
11. Klay .062
12. Wiggs .006
13. CoJo -.019
Honestly I think the biggest thing this tells me is that ws/48 is crap lol. It clearly overvalues bigs.
It does seem to get the general ordering for how I've felt about each player pretty well if you account for position. Like the only one I would potentially quibble about is JK, but he's taken a step up recently
I am with GlueAndBold on this. Loon's rating = Steph's rating is meaningful? 🤣 If we're considering value to a winning team, I would put Looney much further down the list this season. Klay is a tale of two runs so far; the earlier hot mess and the more recent "found his shot" Klay — though admittedly it's not as neat a division as that, with games each way in between.
I think you might have misread my statement Attila :) I'm not saying the actual values are useful or that comparing our useful-but-limited center to the goat by this one metric makes any sense. I'm saying that, within position, it seems somewhat reasonable. i.e. TJD has outclassed our other two in the time he's had, Looney has looked worse but his defense hasn't been as bad as most feel and he's still a rebound hound, and Saric is about as good as Looney. For guards, Curry is still the goat, CP3 has been super effective, BP has been surprisingly great, Klay has had an okay season (with major peaks making up for his initial crater) and CoJo isn't a player we want getting hella minutes.
Anyone using this to say TJD has been better than Curry should think a bit more, but within position it seems to capture at least a little bit of reality imo
That works better for me, though I didn't need "win shares per 48" to realize it! The eye test told the same story you are describing (TJD's value vs Loon and Saric), although really those three bring different skills. Agreed about Curry, CP3, BP, and Klay. Again, I didn't need win shares to see that; it's pretty obvious just watching the games.
This is not to denigrate the GOAT, but Steph has definitely lost something this season. The stats alone tell some of the story. He is rebounding and assisting less and not shooting as well. I imagine it has something to do with the new rotations and adapting to different players like the Podz and CP3. He is still our hero and have no problem believing that he can still win games but he is also aging.
TJD deserves more minutes than he has actually gotten and so does Saric. Saric was a tremendous pickup and fulfills his role extremely well. Kerr is still gumming up the works. Can you teach an old dog new tricks?
I wonder how much of Steph's declined assist and rebound numbers can be attributed to the fact that he's playing a fair number of minutes with Paul and Podz, who are going to swipe a fair number of assists and rebounds, respectively. Nothing cracks me up more than watching a Podz/Looney lineup where the two collide in search of more and more rebounds.
Agree that Steph might be on the beginning of his decline; last I checked his assist to turnover ratio was alarmingly low and he's had a higher percentage of bad "how'd he do that" plays to good. Otoh he's still the best player on the team imo, and the high WS supports that. I remain agnostic about the rotations; this staff is still hella talented (I'd assume) and I don't think Kerr is making these decisions alone, nor has he ever done so.
Certainly argues for starting JK over Wiggs and Moody over Klay. What I really would love to see is Player Impact Plus Minus (PIPM) but I don't have access to that.
Yeah PIPM would be good. More generally, I favor stats that actually use the scoreboard on/off directly rather than attempt to model it through the box score, although any given metric needs to be used in context :)
Wiggins and Kuminga don't play the same position, if you want to argue Kuminga should start then argue he should start over Draymond.
Steph, Klay, Kuminga, Saric, TJD/Looney is a rotation I would like to see used. We become big and still have scorers from all over the floor. That takes care of our size disadvantage. Then plug in various players to matchup with whoever is on the floor after substitutions. Although I like Podz starting, he is a player that is not dependent on starting. He plays the same if he comes off the bench. Energy, CP3, Wiggs, Draymond (if he is still with the team), and choose the rest. Plenty of opportunity for everyone. Kerr would probably never do this. He is our problem for the future.
On this team, don't they both play the 3 and the 4? Also, I'm not the one who needs convincing. Coach Kerr seems to think they can't be played together.
Kuminga plays pretty sparingly at the 3 I think, he's played the vast majority of his minutes at the 4. Wiggins does play at the 4, but he doesn't start there if Draymond is active, he starts at the 3.
Looking through the lineups GSW has used this season, a Kuminga/Saric/TJD lineup has played 17 minutes together this season. Saric/Looney/Kuminga and Saric/Green/Kuminga have technically played together but nba.com has both lineups at 0 minutes played, so it couldn't have been more than 30 seconds for either one.
Kuminga has played 628 minutes this season, so those lineups account for about 3% of his minutes. There are murkier situations like when he shares the floor with Wiggins but eh, I don't think that's enough to say that Kerr views him as a 3.
Kerr with an interview today that addressed the challenges of balancing a busy roster had some notable points:
1. He's super happy with the new Wiggins post-benching, thought he was our best player against Denver, may need to start him again soon.
2. Considers that many years it's obvious who the top 9-10 guys are, this year it's not; which is good, but that's a challenge for coaching staff, to balance it all.
3. Considers CP and Dario the constants on the second unit and others have been sort of worked in around them.
4. Regarding Kuminga recently discussing his desire to play more, and in more clutch situations, Kerr said, "I don't mind those comments at all. Every guy wants to play and JK's a really talented guy."
5. So far has not seen it work to play Wiggins and Kuminga together and has numbers to back it up. However, "if we can put the right guys around them,:" it might yet work due to their athleticism and dynamism.
Interview at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp4QIdlxcG0
I'm gonna quote the whole Kerr answer to the Wiggs/JK question, b/c I think there's a lot of nuance there:
"I think it's something we will try with some new people around them. Their numbers are not good together, frankly. They're very redundant. The tape and the numbers haven't been great. We recognize, too, that we have a level that we need to get to to really compete at the highest level. And if those two guys can co-exist on the floor, it does give us an elevated athleticism and elevated potential, but we have to find the right combination of people around those two."
Firstly, Wiggs has been brutal most of the season, so I bet most 2 person combinations who's minutes are primarily drawn from the pre-benching of Wiggs minutes will be pretty brutal. However, since the benching, Wiggs has played better, and since Steve has intermixed non-JK starters in with Wiggs since then, other players 2 person +/- numbers have ticked upwards as Wiggs has improved. So, IMO, Steve is working off a poor sample if he's judging based on pre-benching Wiggs performance.
Secondly, if both Wiggs and JK are hitting their 3's, which they both have been recently, then it definitely feels like he should be able to find room for them both. In order for them both to play simultaneously, they both have to be 3-pt threats the other team needs to want to challenge. They may not draw the attention Steph/Klay/or even Podz do, but they have to draw more defensive attention then Dray or Loon.
Steph, Draymond, Wiggs, JK, and Pods? Versatility, athleticism, plus defenders, shot creation. Don’t know if it’ll work for sure but so far this lineup has been on the court together for a grand total of one minute according to https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?TeamID=1610612744&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=NET_RATING
This I want to watch… and: Can tjd work in this subbed in for dray?
I like it a ton, but it would mean moving Klay to the bench and I just don’t see that happening with Klay’s makeup.
I know you don’t want to run Draymond at the 5 for too long but I don’t even mean just as a closing lineup. Stevie, how bout trying it for more than 30 seconds this season? 😬
It feels like this is part of the problem. Tip-toe'ing around Klay's ego. Klay should not have closed the DEN game. He was lackadaisical and lazy on defense. He was greedy and single-minded on offense. It was pathetic. And Steve needs to have the balls to bench him when he's not playing well. He needs to be able to say that the one time benching was not a slap on the wrist. If Klay is playing shitty, he needs to be on the pine.
It’s a huge part of the problem. It creates the double standard JK and Moody have had to deal with of being held accountable for shit that Klay gets away with.
Yes. We've said over and over that Steph is the only player that should get a pass, but Steve obviously has Klay on that same list, and I fear that Dray also goes on that list. And it's been obvious this season that Klay has had a very very up and down year.
Honestly, it's very likely the Dubs win in Denver if Klay is benched.
Steph shouldn’t get a pass on Christmas or in LA vs the Lakers
"He's super happy with the new Wiggins post-benching, thought he was our best player against Denver, may need to start him again soon."
Kerr, my dude.....if it's not broken don't try to fix it?
Full reply to "Wiggs anchoring the second unit" question:
"The way I look at it, Chris and Dario anchor the second group. ... That unit is really based around them. Wiggs has really given that group another attacker and post-up guy... that's what we need from Wiggs. He can do that with the starting group, too. If he keeps playing well, he very well could end up back with the starting lineup. But we're just taking it day by day."
I don't read that as "We may need to start him again." More as, "I like what I'm seeing now, and sure, anything can happen."
If Podz keeps playing like this, I think he keeps starting even after Draymond gets back. He and Curry haven’t together don’t look overmatched and Podz just fills so many needs.
It feels like they both play a similar role, however. They're both energy guys, ballhandlers, connectors, push the pace guys.
Agreed. He does the "push the pace (but not recklessly)" thing that Draymond is good at; he's a dogged defender in transition, against the point of attack, and as a help defender sharking the passing lanes; he punishes defenses that sag off him from 3, but can also initiate action with Steph off-ball; AND he rebounds the ball. Oh, also, while he's no Loon or Dray in this regard, he sets harder screens than KD ever did lol
Me thinks his screens are harder than Klay’s as well.
Yeah. Wigs could be performing better BECAUSE he is coming off the bench, not because now he's found "it" so let's put him back in the spotlights under which he has historically withered.
2021-2022 playoffs don't feel like ancient history to me. I think the "post-punch Draymond being present makes him feel bad" argument makes at least as much sense as the "withers under the spotlight" argument.
I do not and never have bought the Punch as a reason for Wiggins' performance. I think his history shows his excellent performances earlier with us to be outliers compared to his overall career trajectory. Those outlier performances do show what he COULD do but the overall picture is that he doesn't consistently stay at that higher level. Maybe he can get back to it; he has shown signs at times. But I see no evidence that the Punch ever had anything to do with it.
It might not be the punch, but feeling more relaxed and confident without Draymond around doesn’t seem that far-fetched. Obviously, Draymond is very intense and Wiggins might not be wired to handle it well.
That could be. We probably won't know anytime soon because those guys are unlikely to talk publicly about it while they're still teammates.
I was thinking this might be true about JK, as well.
He’s great as a third option. That’s the diff between Warriors Wiggins vs Minny Wiggins. He’s been on a parade of weird unfortunate circumstances since going out with an adductor injury, busted his ankle in 3-on-3, got sick, out for personal reasons, busted rib, messed up offseason, busted finger, sick again… he’s shown more consistent signs of returning to form lately, I have no idea why people wouldn’t believe in his ability to regain the form he had from 21/22 through early 22/23. Maybe he settles at 38% from 3 instead of 45%, but he’s coming.
> I have no idea why people wouldn’t believe in his ability to regain the form he had from 21/22 through early 22/23.
Maybe because we are aware of his form from 2013/14 through 19/20, and Butler's concerns about Wigs' commitment to winning.
Remember after the Celtics series Wigs said "Wow, I guess I can rebound! I am committed to rebounding better"? In his 9th year in the league? Rebounds per game in 20/21=4.9. RPG in 21/22=4.5. And after that revelation? 22/23 rebounds per game, 5.0. Wow! One-tenth of a rebound more per game after such "commitment." Stop the presses.
This isn't to cr@p all over him. He's a nice rotation piece that you can put into a starter role if needed owing to injury or matchup (e.g., a Canadian opponent, a game against Minny). Now, I'd love for Wigs to prove us wrong. However, it is just to say he is unreliable game to game and year to year, and it seems he has no commitment to becoming a reliable player, aka, a star. Better to invest in a player who has a good excuse for unreliability (youth) and wants to be a star, aka, reliable, than an 11-year vet with that career-long record of unreliability.
Another aspect of Wiggins going to the bench...Klay's offense is better.
To be clear, I don't see much evidence for that either, other than the possible fact that he seems to be performing better lately without Draymond. My point was that I don't think there's much evidence to support him not playing well under the spotlight, but hey, I wasn't a Wolves fan during his dark period, so I'm not exactly attuned to most of his career.
Wiggins started out really well post-punch last season with Draymond on the team and on the floor until he got hurt, doesn't really square well this theory.
Even though it's kind of Wiseman-related, Tyrese Haliburton seems like a lightning rod for Dub fan infighting
That one doesn’t hurt as much since we won 2 years later and may have not gotten Kuminga and Moody then
It's more like Sour Grapes Heisman
Is there infighting? I think we're all in agreement that he's the on that got away, although I'm kinda okay with him developing elsewhere bc that means we get to watch him more per game than he'd have been playing for the W's
Well, infighting as far as should they have traded down/would he have developed like this with limited minutes/already had Poole, etc.
I feel like Eric should have titled this something like: “your personal invitation to fight club - remember to load up on the magic cookies to keep things civil”
Rule #1, You don't title about "Fight Club "
2nd Rule of Fight Club…
You don’t title about Fight Club
Your league-wide all-time argument-starter kit.
1. Who is the best player ever/ who is on your Mount Rushmore?
2. Analytics are/aren't ruining the game.
3. Soft new rules and threes have ruined the game, or made it much better.
4. The players are so rich that they are spoiled and don't try, and player empowerment means that they control too much of their destiny; or: they have earned every dollar and deserve their power as much as owners do.
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Referees are crooked and the league has an agenda to help certain teams for revenue vs. that's a lot of hooey.
7. That's not a foul. And that's a travel.
8. Let's compare players and teams from different eras and argue who is better, Wilt or Doncic. Or, you know, let's not.
9. You have to have a mean mug and a nasty attitude and foul hard if you want to succeed as a player or a team. It's both necessary and admirable. Or, you know: Steph.
10. The fans in that city are jerks or don't care enough or don't understand the game.
Regarding 10: I can get behind certain teams having a disproportionate percentage of jerky fans, even if I acknowledge nobody will agree on which teams/ how large that list is 😉
#7 - and also a carry
#10 - all of the above for *that* team's fans
"How is that not a carry?!? (thank you!)
AND ONE!!!!!!!!
3. The headsnap/foul bating (jameshardon)
Ugly not fun basketball
4. Millionaires playing for billionaires keeping the rest of us suckers (the proletariat) from (peaceful) revolution
As Marx wrote, "Basketball is the opium of the people." I'm sure that's what he meant, anyway.
From The Athletic on the Heat:
But what stands out when watching Herro is that he has been turning his second biggest liability (his first is injuries) into a strength.
In his first four NBA seasons, especially in the playoffs, Herro was the player opponents hunted when they had the ball — he was such a weak defender that game plans forced him into switches and difficult pick-and-rolls.
So far in this campaign, Herro is averaging a career-best 1.3 steals per game, is generally more active in passing lanes and is a bigger contributor to the Heat’s defensive plans. He opened the Christmas game with a chase-down block on Kelly Oubre Jr. and produced a steal in addition to his 22 points.
“He’s reading the game very well,” Heat coach Erik Spoelstra said of Herro. “He continues to improve on both sides of the floor, and I think it’s due to him being an ambitious player who wants to impact the game. He wants to impact winning. He wants to be known as a winning player. And the winning players do it on both ends of the court. He’s fully embracing that.”
https://theathletic.com/5162211/2023/12/27/miami-heat-nba-standings-trade-market/
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That's what I was hoping would happen for another newly well paid fifth year guard out of Wisconsin. Still can't understand how JP can go out there and not care that he is one of the worst defenders in the league. Given the rest of his approach to the game, I really expected he'd work on that and figure out how to play at least average, and to at least care and give some effort, by last year, but instead he got worse. Literally the opposite of "wanting to be known as a winning player". Well, Wes Jr. gets to deal with it now.
FWIW, Poole is averaging a career best 1.1 steals per game, steals are generally poor indicators of real defense. If Spo says Herro is playing better defense, that’s a stronger indicator… but Herro’s defensive rating is worse than ever (another imperfect indicator, but better than steals, imo)
Poole doesn’t care about winning. He said his legacy is set after 1 ring. Let him continue to chase 30 PPG and IG models
I remember when we all thought he'd put up big scoring numbers as the #1 option for the Wizards. Turns out, he's playing fewer minutes with them (29.6 minutes per game) than last year with the Dubs (30.0) and his scoring has dropped from 20.4 to 17.9.
Contributing to winning a championship could have played a part. Already reaching the pinnacle of the sport and then rewarded with a lucrative contract. There isn't any reason to improve unless its to be one of the best in the game.
Yeah, just hard for me to understand how you get as far as he did, yet do not have the inner competitiveness to want to not be a laughingstock on D when it is something under your control. Well, that's why there is room in the league for guys like Podz, whose gaf factor is at 100.
Some guys just want the glamour of being a "bucket". That's what separates guys in this league. That's why only a few can be considered one of the greats despite most of them being pretty close in physical talent.
I think its extremely difficult to project JP's post-title year performance given the punch. We do not know what JP the Dubs would have had had Dray been a teammate happy for the young fellas growth instead of an egomaniac threatened by someone else's success.
Do we? We know what JP the dubs had before he was punched, signed a bag, won a championship, and was playing on a very good, very defensively solid team. We also know what JP we had after most of those things too, as well as what JP looks like with a bag on a terrible team.
I'd guess JP would care more about defense if the Wizards were a serious team, but that's based off hope and his play during the title run more than anything. I prefer to give him ownership over his future rather than blame Dray for all of Poole's weaknesses as a player
Cynical prediction: he'll 'discover' defense the last year of his current contract....
The Erick Dampier special.
Regarding trades: I don't think the Warriors should be looking to make a trade right now. The trade value of any guys the team might want to get rid of is pretty low right now; I expect only the rookies, Kuminga, Chris Paul, or Steph would be likely to bring back much value. Maybe Klay because of his expiring contract, but it would probably be more than one guy to match salaries and we already have a problem of being too deep but not dependable enough.
The team's not bad enough to blow it up (and we don't have our own pick this year anyway) so we can rule out trading Steph, and I don't see us getting back a player for Klay who's a better fit, even with Klay's decline. Likewise with CP3, which leaves just Kuminga. JK's salary is low enough that he'd need to be accompanied by a bigger contact that really cuts into the net value of the trade.
Honestly I think our best bet is to wait things out and let the guys we already have get over whatever's wrong with them rather than rush to make a trade in because you feel like you have to do "something".
All of that, plus if you do make a trade, don't expect the new player(s) to instantly mesh. Don't take for granted the amount that JK already works well in the system. Not perfectly, but you can't tell me that Siakam already knows how to run a DHO so that he gets it to Steph in the exact place he wants it. It's midseason, that stuff matters. CP is still getting used to it and he's a point god
This is probably the biggest reason Myers et al. haven't traded for major talent mid-season. It's hard to replicate the what the Lakers did last year considering we have a more complicated system than "give it to Lebron/ AD and drive and kick"
I counted once. I think the numbers are of the titles won in the last 40 years, only one winner had a mid-season trade of a rotation player.
2, and I only know this because I am a transplanted Portlander - Sheed to the Pistons, Clyde to the Rockets.
I stand corrected. So, 2/40. So, a mid-season trade of a rotation player almost guarantees the team will NOT win the title that year.
Unless it is a talkative Portland Trailblazer in the twilight of their career with established ties to the team....
Anyone have Bill Walton's number?
Thanks, that makes sense to me. Intuitively, the teams that win a finals usually aren't the teams so uncertain about their rotation that they need to trade for someone to fit into it mid season
I hope we can permanently rule out trading Steph. There are no trades under the sun that could bring back enough to make it worth trading the greatest Warrior of all time, past present and future (in all likelihood). If the Warriors do that, I'd boycott the Warriors for a long time lol. Agreed on all your actual points though, mDuo.
If the team decides, "y'know what, we're fucked, time to go full tank" I could see sending Steph off somewhere he could still ball out as a mercy. Sort of like Dame from the Blazers this year. But I hope that never happens.
Agreed, mostly, with one exception. https://x.com/warriors/status/1740115593884565867?s=46&t=qNSterE8PO_Ycn4gEV2X5w