Damn, that 1. Team is actually kinda interesting from a hypothetical make up... How soon until we can just APRIBOT these thought experiments and watch NBAI games for entertainment and post about it on here?!
Joe Smith in category 3? He wasn't a bad NBA player, but a huge disappointment as #1 overall pick. Ended up playing on a record 12 different NBA teams until Ish Smith broke the record
I put Joe Smith in the same general category as Joe Barely Cares and for the same reasons you cite. Still, I think Russell Cross (#6), Diogu (#9), and Jacob Evans (#28, so less was expected) were pretty much worthless so I rate 'em lower. I suppose Diogu wasn't entirely worthless, he played a few years, but still.
Gui and Post still have an awful lot to prove, and if we use the wayback machine, we could take Gus Williams and maybe Phil Smith. But that's pretty far back.
Also I don't think Joe Barely Cares should be in category 3; he was a decent NBA player, just not worth a #1 overall pick or what we gave up to get the pick. We could put Ike Diogu on that 1st round failure list instead, or a "who he?" guy like Russell Cross (overall 6th pick in 1983 and played 45 games in one season and was out of the league) or Jacob Evans (whom we do remember).
Good question! There were 7 rounds back then and he was 6th round, #127. So yes, I think he should count as a top 5 "2nd round" pick above Gui and Post to be fair.
Although the game last night was stunningly bad, I will watch Saturday. I still have hopes for a few players besides Richard’s- crier and maybe bolden needs more time to get back to basketball and then Rowe and Madsen. And I hope the warriors sign Payton and Kuminga. They missed out on Beal because of kuminga maybe
Just because nothing has officially happened im open to some rampant speculation and I’m curious what people think. Let’s assume the general thinking and rumors are true. The Warriors sign Horford, and De Melton. Re-sign Kuminga.
Guards: Steph, Podz, Buddy, De Melton
Forwards: Jimmy, Moses, Kuminga, Gui
Bigs: Dray, Horford, Post, TJD
That’s 12 spots. Probably two more guaranteed contracts and two more 2-ways.
What positions would you target? More established vets that know their role (like a Brogdon at G) or finding that young G-league guy finally ready to break through to a rotation?
Absolutely re: the rookies. I think Richard will have a similar trajectory to Podz. He’s at minimum mentally ready. Fun to watch. A dawg - fits right in.
Your guess or your wish? I wouldn't be mad at that.
What's a little crazy to me is that Seth is almost 35. I thought he was a very interesting target, but that gives me a bit of pause. Not a major one though for a final roster target.
I wouldn't be mad at signing Seth because he can shoot and is family, and maybe we do it to make Steph happy. But he's an aging little guy who can't defend. So I wouldn't be thrilled either.
Agree, he needs to be off the 5 in regular season, or postseason doesn’t fly. *I’m all for throwing Toohey in the deep end. He’s smart, seems like a quick learner and Aussies are tough mfers.
Earlier this year, after he left for SF Standard, TK wrestled the +/- pod away from NYT/The Athletic, who didn’t own it but acted like it (just housed it while the 3 were all there). So it’s independent fyi.
Now that Slater’s at ESPN, he can’t do the pod, unfortunately. Tim and Marcus are looking for a new member. My bet is on Emerman at SF Standard. Hope AS can guest occasionally.
"[Charania] "Over a dozen teams made minimum and midlevel exception offers to Dame. Two teams in particular I'm told that Damian Lillard really considered: Celtics and the Timberwolves. He held calls with both teams at different points."
One way to salvage this situation / relationship between JK and Warriors FO: Kerr promises JK he'll be featured as the focal point of the offense when Steph is on the bench, and he'll get 20 games to prove he can be the hub on offense. One hole the Warriors haven't plugged since Poole left is the 2nd volume on-ball scorer. When Steph is resting, run the offense through JK. Let him run high pick and pops with Buddy, or call head-tap plays for him and post him up. Give him the green light for the first 20 games and see if it works. If it does and the team is winning and JK is happy, then keep him. But if it doesn't and the team is losing / JK is not efficient on offense, then he'll play a Shawn Marion role as a "big GP2".
And if JK is still not happy, then work on a trade.
>I believe this has been said 2.6 million times before in one way or another.. Now 2,600,001 and counting.
In this case, it is necessary to remind people. They're forgetting to factor in his ambitions as a player. Not everybody is a "My only priority is doing whatever it takes to win" type of player and that's okay.
You're right that not every player's priority is to do whatever it takes to win but is that really okay? If a player's priority isn't that, do you really want that player? I guess if your team isn't competitive, and you want a guy who can entertain the fans while you lose, then okay. But if JK wants to be Kobe (which he's not), well, Kobe was all about winning if he was anything.
From a human perspective it is. Of course a competitive team would never want a guy like that the reality is those players exist. Some are just better at hiding it than others by doing JUST ENOUGH to earn a spot on a team and not get called out. I remember hearing a story about Kevin Martin stop trying to score after a certain amount of points because he didn’t want to make the all star game and spend the ASB relaxing instead.
However, in my opinion, JK is *already* featured in this way. GSW doesn’t run that many set plays (basically only after time stoppages) and in the close watches I’ve done, most/all the bench unit plays are for JK. There’s this widespread idea that Kerr isn’t using JK on offense properly but I believe they’ve tried a lot of different things and JK just isn’t efficient at creating on-ball offense (yet). The best on-ball play for JK is an inverted pick and roll (so he can attack the small if switched or the gap if not) but defenses counter by stunting in and stripping JK’s dribble. On offense, JK is very good at off-ball cuts and transition and below average at everything else. That’s why Kerr says if JK leaned into those things and being a defensive menace, then he’d be a star in his role. JK doesn’t want that.
If we can get out in transition more, JK is a terror. In the half court, he's more terrible than terror...
[edit] to make this more constructive, I’m hoping to see some improvement on the defensive side this year, he has good tools but loses focus too easily and often.
Hopefully, JK improved his handles this offseason. He seems to post some of his workouts on social media. I noticed that there's one where he's working on dribbling 2 balls to improve coordination.
In inverted pick and rolls where he gets stripped - is there a help defender that creates a wall and that's where he loses the ball? Or do the other defenders stay home? If it's the former, maybe the spacing needs to be better so JK can kick the ball out when help comes? Although that is something that JK needs to work on. He doesn't seem to make quick kick-out passes.
I haven't seen JK run pick and pops with Quinten Post. Maybe that's something they can add to their playbook?
It's too late now, but I really wished they made a play for Bradley Beal instead of extending the QO to JK. Beal would have been great as that 2nd volume on-ball creator. I know the Clips promised him a starting job. But maybe the Dubs could have persuaded him with more money, green light to shoot, and 30 minutes per game as a 6th man.
"Hopefully, JK improved his handles this offseason"... said almost every DNHQ poster in every off season since JK joined the team. It's the perpetual dream. Someday!
I think they have improved each year, but were at a vey low starting point and are not yet where we fans want them to be. To revive the Jaylen Brown comparison, he got stripped a lot by the Dubs in the '22 finals (and he's turned out 'OK').
He has improved his overall skill level every year without a doubt but as said elsewhere his skill level was not very good when drafted.
I have no idea what he has done but if I was him I would have hired Marc Campbell or someone like him and lived in the gym. Maybe he has but I doubt it based on his shooting form.
It’s amazing the amount of time and energy we’ve spent on this conundrum over *years.* Years! Will we know what to do with ourselves if it ends? Do we really want it to end? It’s existential at this point.
Report is that GSW would not go over minimum for Beal (I assume because the only way to go higher is TPMLE and that’s earmarked for Horford).
Sure, open to JK-QP PNR.
On defending JK in PNR, I’ve seen both the help wall and the stay at home. I would personally always guard JK 1-to-1 with players stabbing in at his dribble. At worst you give up a contested 2 and each turnover forced cancels out multiple mismatch advantage plays.
In my interview by Marc Campbell I said my eye test says JK has improved at the kick out passes, but he pointed out to me that his assist rates are very low.
Spacing could help JK. but it would help anyone, so you’re back to whether JK especially benefits or if you’re better off giving those drives to someone else.
It's all but official that CP3 is signing with the Clippers according to r/clippers and r/lakers.
The Clips are really doubling down on the OGs. Beal, now CP3.
Do they still have room for Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan?
r/warriors
•
49 min. ago
Parv21
Here is Some Clarification About Kuminga's Contract and How it Would Count Towards a S&T (Courtesy of GSWCBA)
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1m3jnvp/here_is_some_clarification_about_kumingas/
More clarification is in the second slide/photo.
For sh!ts and giggles, I would love to see a Dubs:
Top 5, 1st Round Draft picks
Top 5, 2nd Round Draft picks
Bottom 5, 1st Round Draft picks
Bottom 5, 2nd Round Draft picks
1. Steph, Wilt, Barry, Mullin, Klay
2. Dray, Arenas, Monta, Gui, Post
3. Washburn, Wiseman, Joe Barely Cares, Fuller, POB
4. (Too many to narrow down…)
Damn, that 1. Team is actually kinda interesting from a hypothetical make up... How soon until we can just APRIBOT these thought experiments and watch NBAI games for entertainment and post about it on here?!
And if we stretch that #1 team a bit more, we add Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Nate Thurmond, Tom Meschery, and Paul Arizin. Not a bad "B" team!
Joe Smith in category 3? He wasn't a bad NBA player, but a huge disappointment as #1 overall pick. Ended up playing on a record 12 different NBA teams until Ish Smith broke the record
I put Joe Smith in the same general category as Joe Barely Cares and for the same reasons you cite. Still, I think Russell Cross (#6), Diogu (#9), and Jacob Evans (#28, so less was expected) were pretty much worthless so I rate 'em lower. I suppose Diogu wasn't entirely worthless, he played a few years, but still.
That's fair - no argument from me
This is really good Sleepy!
Gui and Post still have an awful lot to prove, and if we use the wayback machine, we could take Gus Williams and maybe Phil Smith. But that's pretty far back.
Also I don't think Joe Barely Cares should be in category 3; he was a decent NBA player, just not worth a #1 overall pick or what we gave up to get the pick. We could put Ike Diogu on that 1st round failure list instead, or a "who he?" guy like Russell Cross (overall 6th pick in 1983 and played 45 games in one season and was out of the league) or Jacob Evans (whom we do remember).
Great list. Does Marčiulionis technically count as a late-round pick/UDFA?
Good question! There were 7 rounds back then and he was 6th round, #127. So yes, I think he should count as a top 5 "2nd round" pick above Gui and Post to be fair.
Although the game last night was stunningly bad, I will watch Saturday. I still have hopes for a few players besides Richard’s- crier and maybe bolden needs more time to get back to basketball and then Rowe and Madsen. And I hope the warriors sign Payton and Kuminga. They missed out on Beal because of kuminga maybe
Just because nothing has officially happened im open to some rampant speculation and I’m curious what people think. Let’s assume the general thinking and rumors are true. The Warriors sign Horford, and De Melton. Re-sign Kuminga.
Guards: Steph, Podz, Buddy, De Melton
Forwards: Jimmy, Moses, Kuminga, Gui
Bigs: Dray, Horford, Post, TJD
That’s 12 spots. Probably two more guaranteed contracts and two more 2-ways.
What positions would you target? More established vets that know their role (like a Brogdon at G) or finding that young G-league guy finally ready to break through to a rotation?
Seth and GP2 on vet minimums, Richard and Toohey on 2-ways.
Absolutely re: the rookies. I think Richard will have a similar trajectory to Podz. He’s at minimum mentally ready. Fun to watch. A dawg - fits right in.
Your guess or your wish? I wouldn't be mad at that.
What's a little crazy to me is that Seth is almost 35. I thought he was a very interesting target, but that gives me a bit of pause. Not a major one though for a final roster target.
I wouldn't be mad at signing Seth because he can shoot and is family, and maybe we do it to make Steph happy. But he's an aging little guy who can't defend. So I wouldn't be thrilled either.
My wish AND my guess, I guess.
"I didn’t lie! I made a guesstimated wish!
Can we put Draymond as not a big officially?
Agree, he needs to be off the 5 in regular season, or postseason doesn’t fly. *I’m all for throwing Toohey in the deep end. He’s smart, seems like a quick learner and Aussies are tough mfers.
He could go in either I think. He'll play PF/C and I'd tend to categorize that as a big even if he starts at PF and plays more minutes there.
Consider him "little big man" if you like but he plays like a big and defends opposing bigs.
We're all having bad days every day but that Coldplay guy is having really bad days.
Earned it
The memes are legendary though.
Re: Slater & Warriors +/- pod
Earlier this year, after he left for SF Standard, TK wrestled the +/- pod away from NYT/The Athletic, who didn’t own it but acted like it (just housed it while the 3 were all there). So it’s independent fyi.
Now that Slater’s at ESPN, he can’t do the pod, unfortunately. Tim and Marcus are looking for a new member. My bet is on Emerman at SF Standard. Hope AS can guest occasionally.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/warriors-plus-minus-a-show-about-the-golden-state-warriors/id1147910296?i=1000717965216
I'm available!
"[Charania] "Over a dozen teams made minimum and midlevel exception offers to Dame. Two teams in particular I'm told that Damian Lillard really considered: Celtics and the Timberwolves. He held calls with both teams at different points."
One way to salvage this situation / relationship between JK and Warriors FO: Kerr promises JK he'll be featured as the focal point of the offense when Steph is on the bench, and he'll get 20 games to prove he can be the hub on offense. One hole the Warriors haven't plugged since Poole left is the 2nd volume on-ball scorer. When Steph is resting, run the offense through JK. Let him run high pick and pops with Buddy, or call head-tap plays for him and post him up. Give him the green light for the first 20 games and see if it works. If it does and the team is winning and JK is happy, then keep him. But if it doesn't and the team is losing / JK is not efficient on offense, then he'll play a Shawn Marion role as a "big GP2".
And if JK is still not happy, then work on a trade.
I think JK can be very effective in the ways Eric pointed out.
Him being the hub of the offense would require a skill set that he does not have.
He can really help and would be a key piece if he bought in to what the team needs.
As long as he sees himself as a Kobe type player it will not end well.
I believe this has been said 2.6 million times before in one way or another.. Now 2,600,001 and counting.
>I believe this has been said 2.6 million times before in one way or another.. Now 2,600,001 and counting.
In this case, it is necessary to remind people. They're forgetting to factor in his ambitions as a player. Not everybody is a "My only priority is doing whatever it takes to win" type of player and that's okay.
What's crazy is if he just bought in more, he would be getting the bag.
The tension between his needs and the teams is a big part of why this contract is taking so long to get done.
He'd still have to be able to shoot to get the bag.
You're right that not every player's priority is to do whatever it takes to win but is that really okay? If a player's priority isn't that, do you really want that player? I guess if your team isn't competitive, and you want a guy who can entertain the fans while you lose, then okay. But if JK wants to be Kobe (which he's not), well, Kobe was all about winning if he was anything.
From a human perspective it is. Of course a competitive team would never want a guy like that the reality is those players exist. Some are just better at hiding it than others by doing JUST ENOUGH to earn a spot on a team and not get called out. I remember hearing a story about Kevin Martin stop trying to score after a certain amount of points because he didn’t want to make the all star game and spend the ASB relaxing instead.
I hear you. But we're talking JK and the Dubs. And JK supposedly wants to be like Kobe. Just saying.
I think something like this will happen….
However, in my opinion, JK is *already* featured in this way. GSW doesn’t run that many set plays (basically only after time stoppages) and in the close watches I’ve done, most/all the bench unit plays are for JK. There’s this widespread idea that Kerr isn’t using JK on offense properly but I believe they’ve tried a lot of different things and JK just isn’t efficient at creating on-ball offense (yet). The best on-ball play for JK is an inverted pick and roll (so he can attack the small if switched or the gap if not) but defenses counter by stunting in and stripping JK’s dribble. On offense, JK is very good at off-ball cuts and transition and below average at everything else. That’s why Kerr says if JK leaned into those things and being a defensive menace, then he’d be a star in his role. JK doesn’t want that.
If we can get out in transition more, JK is a terror. In the half court, he's more terrible than terror...
[edit] to make this more constructive, I’m hoping to see some improvement on the defensive side this year, he has good tools but loses focus too easily and often.
Hopefully, JK improved his handles this offseason. He seems to post some of his workouts on social media. I noticed that there's one where he's working on dribbling 2 balls to improve coordination.
In inverted pick and rolls where he gets stripped - is there a help defender that creates a wall and that's where he loses the ball? Or do the other defenders stay home? If it's the former, maybe the spacing needs to be better so JK can kick the ball out when help comes? Although that is something that JK needs to work on. He doesn't seem to make quick kick-out passes.
I haven't seen JK run pick and pops with Quinten Post. Maybe that's something they can add to their playbook?
It's too late now, but I really wished they made a play for Bradley Beal instead of extending the QO to JK. Beal would have been great as that 2nd volume on-ball creator. I know the Clips promised him a starting job. But maybe the Dubs could have persuaded him with more money, green light to shoot, and 30 minutes per game as a 6th man.
"Hopefully, JK improved his handles this offseason"... said almost every DNHQ poster in every off season since JK joined the team. It's the perpetual dream. Someday!
I think they have improved each year, but were at a vey low starting point and are not yet where we fans want them to be. To revive the Jaylen Brown comparison, he got stripped a lot by the Dubs in the '22 finals (and he's turned out 'OK').
He has improved his overall skill level every year without a doubt but as said elsewhere his skill level was not very good when drafted.
I have no idea what he has done but if I was him I would have hired Marc Campbell or someone like him and lived in the gym. Maybe he has but I doubt it based on his shooting form.
Most
Advanced
Yet
Acceptable
It’s amazing the amount of time and energy we’ve spent on this conundrum over *years.* Years! Will we know what to do with ourselves if it ends? Do we really want it to end? It’s existential at this point.
Report is that GSW would not go over minimum for Beal (I assume because the only way to go higher is TPMLE and that’s earmarked for Horford).
Sure, open to JK-QP PNR.
On defending JK in PNR, I’ve seen both the help wall and the stay at home. I would personally always guard JK 1-to-1 with players stabbing in at his dribble. At worst you give up a contested 2 and each turnover forced cancels out multiple mismatch advantage plays.
In my interview by Marc Campbell I said my eye test says JK has improved at the kick out passes, but he pointed out to me that his assist rates are very low.
Spacing could help JK. but it would help anyone, so you’re back to whether JK especially benefits or if you’re better off giving those drives to someone else.