My guess is he has people in his ear that are not giving him the greatest advice, but I can also understand his frustration as a 22-year-old with high hopes of being a great player someday. Basketball is a difficult game to master, Curry centric basketball even more so. Being patient after four years is doable, but not exactly easy and different for each person based on life experiences. I didn’t grow up in Africa, so hard to walk in his shoes.
This article that set Laker & LeBronoids on fire yesterday has slipped in an edit (lol).
"After the publication of this article, sources said James was notified of the sale, via his representation. But he did not post any public acknowledgement."
"[Charania] Cole Anthony has agreed to a contract buyout with the Memphis Grizzlies and plans to sign with the Milwaukee Bucks after he clears waivers, sources tell ESPN. Grizzlies finalized the buyout with Jeff Schwartz and Javon Phillips of Excel Sports for Anthony's new opportunity."
That Bucks roster headed into next season is disgusting man. Giannis will probably drag them to 45-50 wins but they have zero chance to do anything meaningful. I don't know why they're insisting on forcing the issue for a few years of mediocrity when they could easily get back a bunch of assets for an accelerated rebuild.
Yeah, I meant have a path to the finals through a bit a luck, not be a better team than the Pacers (although Giannis can definitely raise the floor of a team more than anyone on the Pacers, and even with a worse team, might win a few rounds by himself). Waiving Lillard was insane, though. That's 1/4 (or more) of a max contract wasted every year for a half a decade.
Waiving Lillard was definitely a WTF decision. Why throw away 112.6M? Crazy. Stretching his deal let them sign Myles Turner, which they couldn't do otherwise, so there's that. But still.
If I recall what I read correctly, Giannis didn't know they were going to waive Dame and sign Turner. It seems odd that they wouldn't talk to him first so maybe I am remembering that wrong. Either way, Giannis could look at the whole picture now and decide, "this ain't happening, I want out." Then signing Turner won't help them.
I remember Eric starting off one of his videos with a phrase that went something like "If you want to start an argument among Warrior fans, just say 'Jonathan Kuminga.'" Good line.
I have two questions for people here. I am not yet thinking about my own responses, these are my open questions for discussion:
1. Do you think that's true, that Kuminga's play and character and career are a notable bone of contention? More than let's say: KD being a hired gun; Poole or Wiggins being inconsistent; Wiseman not working out; Draymond losing his cool; Steph being -- well, Steph generates zero controversy -- Kerr's coaching; Lacob's ownership; etc. etc.?
2. If Kuminga's career is unusually likely to provoke debate, why do you think that is?
There is no debate for me as to raw atheticism vs High BB IQ. And then there's the work ethic and the team player thing. JK was close with Jordon Poole too. All these things contribute to an entitlement vibe that is my problem with JK. If he wants to stay, work hard and wait his turn ie Moses Moody. Hurray. If not, he creates an off note in a finely blended wine. He becomes a whine rather than making wine. I have no hard feelings. But if you give me 2 players to choose from I'll take the hard working, team player without the sour grapes. Kinda like smoke taint. It ruins the vintage.
People forget its a team sport. I watched the Valjyries last night. They lost by 1 point and they've lost a lot of these clutch games, but they're fun to watch. The home crowd loves them. I'd rather watch good basketball and lose than watch a team with bad chemistry and win. Even better is watching a team grow together and win. If JK stays he does so begrudgingly and that's my problem. Stars tend to be a combination of raw talent, incredible work ethic, passion and high native basketball IQ. That last one JK lacks and that is hard to accquire. It's like a 6th sense. Like being able to play 3 dimensional chess vs checkers. Maybe if JK lived and breathed BB that might improve but my impression is not. PODZ does not have half the raw talent of a JK. But he LOVES basketball and he loves hard work and whatever the team needs. He came in cocky and brash but he earned respect.
Last season folks were complaing about his play. Then you find out he had 2 surgeries. Moody played injured. Perhaps I'd be more sympathetic with JK if there was no MM or PODZ on the team. Or even GPII who was traded and came back. And I have seen the Poole, and even Klay affects and I'm like---as soon as you are that ourspokenly unhappy, I am let them go find their heaven elsewhere. JK's drama us self inflicted. He may materilize into greatness or not. But he isn't worth his asking and he was originally offered a generous contract and turned it down. I Wish him well but I'm tired of the drana. Same as Poole and Klay...and both if them really proved their worth, but when they were done with GSW it was over.
Kuminga clearly oozes raw athletic talent but also clearly has not yet figured out how to play winning team basketball, at least not in the Warriors' current system.
So the question becomes, whose fault is this? The coaching staff's or Kuminga's? Obviously, in retrospect the question of blame could have been avoided had the front office not forced this shotgun marriage. But the question remains.
Having the number 2 pick and not getting a good player, than having the 7th pick in a great draft and choosing the wrong player for their system which he clearly was from the beginning.
The 2 timeline fiasco.
Add in the “I am a star” attitude, or the perception that he has that attitude.
Fans love to win and love to blame. Blame Kerr. Blame JK. Blame Meyer.
I like how you added that there is a *perception* that he has an "I am a star" attitude. Because I really don't see it. I've seen ball hogs in my time. Hi Kobe, Iverson, et. al. Kuminga's touches do not exceed anyone else's, he passes. He doesn't have the full swing-the-ball-in-half-a-second thing that everyone wants all the way down, but that is hardly the same as saying he's out there just to prove he's a star. Fair?
My guess is he has people in his ear that are not giving him the greatest advice, but can also understand his frustration as a 22 year-old with high hopes of being a great player someday.
Basketball is a difficult game to master and Curry centric basketball even more so.
Being patient after four years is doable but not exactly easy and it’s different for each person based on life experiences. I didn’t grew up in Africa, so hard to walk in his shoes.
His obvious pure athleticism vs his not always apparent basic basketball skill level is something that opens up reactions from both perspectives, and questions as to his potential and team fit.
Pretty much all of this relies on second-hand reporting, so I don't want assert the items below as known facts, but many sources seem to agree on the general tone.
My issue with JK's character is that he seems like he wants to take shortcuts to greatness and wants teams to pay him based on what is still unrealized and maybe-never-realized potential.
Last season is not a good basis on which to judge him, because of the injury and the anxiety that comes from the pending extensions and his reported refusal of the fairly generous offer from the Dubs, so let's look at the season before. Comparing JK and Kawhi for their third respective season, a lot of the raw numbers are not too different:
JK actually played 26 more overall minutes in that season than Kawhi.
Their 2pt percentage is virtually identical, but JK's 3pt and FT percentages are significantly lower than Kawhi's. JK also got A LOT fewer defensive rebounds and turned that ball over 50% more often.
Kawhi won a championship and was named Finals MVP at the end of that season. A year later, after then also winning DPOY, he agreed to a 5-year 90M max extension with the Spurs.
The comparison for the advanced stats really tells the story: JK is nowhere near what Kawhi was at the same stage in his career. JK should take a reasonable Dubs offer and work on improving in time for this next contract in two or three years. He's not a max player, at least yet.
When the coaching staff tells him to focus on rebounding and ball-handling during the offseason, but JK mostly practices post moves, it tells me that he's cheating himself and his club out of potential greatness, which is super irritating.
I just don't know what the evidence is for this: "he wants to take shortcuts to greatness."
I don't know how many hours he practices as opposed to anyone else. He sure seems like he's fit, he sure seems to have worked on his game every year. Does he do that at the same level as other players? I really don't know how you would know that.
I'm always down with critiques of basketball performance, because those are viewable and measurable. But critiques of character are very different. Hard to know. Or like this; "JK mostly practices post moves," do you know that? How?
He is a phenomenally gifted athlete that at least so far isn't very good at basketball. In particular he isn't a good shooter, his handle isn't great, and he isn't good at team defense. HOWEVER, he is only 23 so he at least in theory get good at that stuff. Do fans want a player that could be great someday or a player for similar money that is actually is actually good right now? That is what fuels the debate.
I don't think it needs to be a bad-blood contentious type of thing.
You can have a great player and you can have a great system...there are times and places where a great player can't fit a successful system. You have a Hall of Fame coach designing plays to fit the player in, but sometimes, as with any relationship, sometimes both sides gotta look each other in the eye and ask if it is working. If it isn't, then ya gotta come to some understanding of how you're going to move on.
Fans are gonna fan. Predicting JK finds his market value this summer talking to the other teams, they sign a 3ish year contract in that range, give it the first half to work out, and if it doesn't, make a move at the trade deadline.
1. I don't think that JK's play and character are MORE notable than the other stories you listed.
2. I think there are multiple reasons why he is unusually likely to provoke debate:
- He is obviously talented but has gotten fewer opportunities than some would like; as a part of this, he had some high-profile DNPs in the playoffs, followed by some games where he put up numbers when thrust into the lineup after Steph was injured. Questioning nine-time champion Steve Kerr's ability to correctly handle a young talent has become a huge pastime among Warrior fans. What does /he/ know?!!
- He wants a BIG contract but hasn't done enough to justify it in the eyes of many fans. He wants to be paid for his /potential/. Show me the money!
- The Warriors' FO hasn't done anything in free agency, so fans have nothing else to talk about. If we had acquired Giannis or even Horford, Dame, or Beal, I doubt Kuminga would generate the kind of conversation he has so far.
In the past (2013-2020), you could trigger the same level of debate by saying “Harrison Barnes”. I think they both have plus athleticism and gorgeous highlights that make one think anything is possible (or alternately that they were underachieving by not being better), they both sought bigger contracts than a lot of fans thought they were worth, both sought bigger roles on championship level teams. Not the same in all dimensions, but a strong resemblance for me.
Nice post. And not that Barnes' "character" was beyond reproach by all accounts in terms of his offseason practice ethos and doing whatever the team asked of him
But I must admit that almost half of my pleasure in signing KD was not tying up so much of the salary cap in Barnes. After his 5-32 performance, I just wanted him to wish him the best of luck somewhere else.
Therefore, at least for me, this is not about Kuminga's character so much as it is about his career goals not perfectly meshing with my goal of watching Steph win another Championship with the Warriors.
Interesting comp. Both went #7 to the Dubs, both are 3/4 wings. Barnes was a five-star recruit out of high school, Wootten Player of the Year (#1 HS player in the nation), then two good years at UNC. He had a lot more BB experience and accomplishments than JK. More was expected from him from the get-go. As you said, not the same in all dimensions, but there are interesting parallels.
- in the draft, the sense was that after AD (of course), Beal, Lillard were off the board, Barnes was the consensus next player to pick at #7 even if he might be overrated vs JK falling to down to GSW at #7 after Giddey was unexpectedly picked early
- the Barnes pick only fell to GSW after some inspired losing plus a coin flip after the season that helped GSW keep it; the JK pick only fell to GSW after MIN did not win the lottery despite good odds.
One interesting contrast that is food for thought: Barnes was a starter because Igoudala, who had earned the right to start, agreed (reluctantly at first) to come off the bench. JK has mostly come off the bench because Draymond and Wiggs (and then Butler) have been ahead of him. Then again, Barnes was the better shooter.
True. And the ultimate contrast is that Barnes ended up being able to play in a lineup of Steph and the four next best players (a lineup that would take over the NBA)
Sure, but it depends on the definition of "able" in "being able to play in a lineup...." Kuminga can do that, there are different opinions as to how well it would work. I'm not persuaded that everything has been tried.
I think there are two big reasons for this - first, Kuminga is the last of the KD/Wiseman/Poole/Wiggans controversies still on the Warriors, so he's still a relevant topic and second, because the is Kuminga good debate also fit within the other debates - was Myers a good GM? Should Kerr's system be changed? Two-timelines? Etc, etc.
I’ll answer two by way of saying that I think Kuminga’s supporters and detractors have become increasingly entrenched in their positions because the former can only seem to see his athleticism and potential while the latter struggles to see past his deficiencies. Full disclosure, I’m in the second camp. I don’t think he’ll ever contribute meaningfully to winning unless he accepts he isn't that guy.
If the entire league knows that JK is gone by the deadline next year, maybe just pay to salary dump him now and use the money to use the full NTPMLE to get another non-min player (in addition to Horford?). Or is no team willing to do that now (even for a protected 1st like the Poole trade?)?
Im sure thats part of the discussion and if the Warriors had assurances of lets say Beale, Lillard, Horford signing into cap space theyd let JK go. They do not and as such are operating under the conditions of it either being JK or freeing up the slot for tax cap purposes only
[Stein/Fischer] Why is Beal's highly anticipated buyout from Phoenix unfolding so slowly? League sources say Beal's current contract stipulates that he is owed a 25% advance payment on July 15. It is believed that he could wait for that payment to go through before proceeding with a buyout.
TBF, the Wizards front office knew it was an overpay at the time. The owner was rewarding Beal for his loyalty to the team (Beal wanted to stay in Washington).
It blew up in their face when they realized how hideous an overpay it was, but they still managed to get off of the contract.
Brett Siegel/Legion Hoops is reporting that JK is expected to re-sign with the Warriors with the expectation he'll be traded by the trade deadline. Take with that what you will.
So it's like we're renting him for a half-season at the probable cost of a future protected 1st-rounder to dump him later. Not the worst thing in the world, and it's possible he could take a leap in the first half and we get something back.
I would've preferred to trade him last off-season (not for Paul George), though
I don't think that's the plan. There's no reason to do it that way. If they are re-signing him for a multi-year deal to trade him at the deadline, they probably expect real value for him at that time.
Otherwise, they'd withdraw the QO and be done with it. Or they can sit on the QO, and if he doesn't get a better offer, he can take it or leave it and go play overseas. If he takes it, he'd be UFA next summer, but they could still trade him at the deadline as an expiring deal and just ask for spare parts in return.
And if they do re-sign him, they don't HAVE to trade him at the deadline if they can't find a good deal. They can wait for next summer. That is, unless he really sucks, but that seems unlikely.
At the very least, it would keep us for hard-capping ourselves at the first apron at any time for the next year, and possibly having a somewhat large salary on the books beyond Curry (which is why is would package Moody and Podz sometime in the next 8 months - but that's a different discussion)
If we sign JK now, we'll probably be over the 1st apron if we sign Horford and Melton, etc., so we can't make any move that would hard-cap us at that level (which limits our options, especially in the off-season, but also in signing a waived player at the deadline). (Sorry, wasn't super clear)
Edit (but too long for last comment): things we couldn't do if we signed JK (and we went over the 1st apron), because they would trigger a hard cap at the 1st apron:
TP-MLE Exceeded: Sign one or more players using the Mid-Level Exception and the sum exceeds the taxpayer MLE limit. ($5,685,000 for the 2025-26 season)
TP-MLE Length Exceeded: Sign a player using the Mid-Level Exception and the length exceeds the taxpayer MLE limit (2 years).
MLE Trade: Use the taxpayer MLE to acquire a player in a trade
MLE Waivers: Use the taxpayer MLE to acquire a player through waivers
BAE: Sign, trade for, or claim a player on waivers using the Bi-Annual Exception
S&T: Acquire a player through a sign-and-trade
Trade Salary Acquired: In a trade, the team acquired salary
Waived & Signed: Signs a player who was waived during the regular season and whose pre-waiver salary was higher than the non-taxpayer mid-level exception
Past-Season TPE: Uses a traded player exception generated during the previous off-season or regular season
Or he gets hurt and we're stuck with one of the worst contracts in the league, because JK minus even 5% athleticism is barely a rotation player, as seen when his ankle wasn't 100%.
Anyway, this is pretty much the best we can hope for (aside from renouncing the QO and using the money to add actual winning players).
Yeah that's what I try to keep stressing, re-signing Kuminga isn't all upside, there's plenty of risk as well.
Hopefully the Warriors are able to walk back some of the comments that Kerr made and aren't obligated to "give the Kuminga/Green/Butler trio a long leash" and can bring Kuminga off the bench and not be forced to play him 30+ minutes a night.
Not to mention the inevitable cloud hanging over the team at least until the trade deadline. I’m sure all parties would remain professional but it’s not easy for any side to play with somebody knowing they’re on their way out soon. I get the business side of the approach but it’s just unfortunate it got to this point.
And that cloud is the leverage Kuminga has in these negotiations now too. If they are heading for an exit, Kuminga could make it pleasant by being "a good soldier" or could make it difficult. The Warriors don't want the difficult route because that will affect their eventual trade leverage if everyone knows the situation is untenable, we just saw that with Butler.
So how much do they have to pay Kuminga for Kuminga to be willing to "play nice" until he's traded?
No one knows. It's the uncertainty about this whole situation that's such a damn mess for a core who I think is in their "last dance" year as far as trying to win a championship goes. Obviously they're signed for next year as well but IMO this is it.
We did NOTHING to seize the last, 2yr, window of opportunity for a 'Ship run with STEPH/DRAY/JIMMY's possibly last 2 yrs together, while losing LOONS, yet, another piece of our last 'Ship Team...so far, anyway...I mean, really, what did we bring MDJ's former teammate JIMMY on board for if we are not going all-out for a last run the next 2 yrs? Hello KLAY/HORFORD! Or, is MDJ surreal enough to think he would replace KLAY and LOONS with SCHROEDER/HIELD/MOODY/PODZ/ET AL, in the STARTING LINEUP OF A CONTENDER? We already wasted one year with experimentation while running STEPH AND JIMMY TO THE GROUND. More of the same? Does the GM have any idea of what DUBS BALL/KERR-BALL that changed the game is all about? All he had to do was keep KLAY and get HORFORD this year...Can still DO IT; only now he is going to have to enlist STEPH/DRAY/JIMMY to reach out to KLAY and do some KD-style recruiting, complete with a starting role! Or, is his ego bigger than the team...Lol
We're talking about a guy who put up 22 pts/7 rbs per 36 last season. Maybe he's not a good fit for our team, but the takes that he's just not worth much are really off base.
He's definitely worth more than that, it's just that teams aren't willing to give us anywhere near what he's worth (and probably won't at the deadline)
But, what's the rush? Why do we have to do something now?
Maybe we lose Horford because we are waiting on JK, but that's hardly the end of the world.
As long as Steph and Butler are mostly healthy, next year's Dubs are a playoff team right now. There will be other centers available before the trade deadline.
I've just never seen what the pressure is to sell low ...there is no need for that, and many reasons not to (one being, that JK might just be better by the trade deadline).
But at the deadline it won't be considered S&T so it won't hard-cap the other team. That makes a difference. And we can't foresee what might motivate other teams at the deadline. Lots can happen between now and then.
“Outside of players like Malcolm Brogdon, Trey Lyles, and Gary Payton II, who we previously reported as potential free-agent targets for the Warriors this offseason, two other interesting names were brought up in conversations during the first two days of NBA Summer League: Seth Curry and Ben Simmons.” — BS [Brett Siegel]
I wouldn't be thrilled by Simmons, that's for sure.
A lot depends on whether we are hard-capped or not.
If not, then a min contract for Simmons is not much of a risk. If we are hard-capped, then that salary would count if we had to cut him later (I believe).
I guess he could fit into the KA low scoring, high connectivity kind of guy role, and be an option when Dray or Butler can't go. Not sure Gui wouldn't be a better choice in that situation, though.
Assuming his back is OK I don't have a problem with Simmons as backup PG in place of Pat Spencer. Basically you gain 7 inches in height (and wingspan) on defense.
I have zero faith that he could stay healthy, but like I say, if he's on a min and we're not hardcapped, fine. We can just cut him when he does get injured and sign someone else.
Honestly, though, I'm not super-thrilled with this 'let's get all the over-the-hill vets strategy'. I see why they are doing it, but look how well that's worked for the Clips lately.
I would definitely take Brogdon, Curry, Horford, Melton, and Simmons when the only tool we had was the TPMLE. That's a fair bit of talent for minimal resources.
We absolutely couldn't play him with Butler, Dray, and another defensive player (GPII?) at the same time, but on a minimum contract we could do a lot worse than a 1-4+ switchable defender. Yes, he's a black hole on offense, but with Melton and Horford (and Buddy and Podz), he could facilitate, run the floor, and make up for the lack of defense. We could play him at multiple positions off the bench to help hold leads.
If Seth is actually considering returning, that's a definite yes.
GPII I want back, but he might want more than a min for one of his last contracts?
The theory with Simmons might just be he plays big minutes when Draymond rests.
Although I thought it was well established that Butler was not a fan of Simmons, but maybe he was more upset with the lack of accountability in Philly's organization at the time and/or would be cool with it as long as he's making 50+ million and Simmons is making a minimum lol.
When you wrote 'Rip the city,' were actually not going for Rip City, but 'R.I.P. The City'?
Weird comparison maybe, but Yang sort of reminds me of a 7'0 version of SloMo. He's surprisingly smooth in his movements, including when he drives to the basket.
So I have this condition called Dopamine Needed, Help Quick! (DNHQ) and I use this special type of medication called Anything DubNation Helps Deeply (ADHD), but for some reason the supply is running reeeaaallly low right now... like I might actually have to start chasing men's gymnast's rings (that did not sound right even as I typed it).
But in my flights of fantasy I was taken back in time to the time of being an NBA fan when Bob Cousy was dribbling circles around the league. Yes, That Bob Cousy - The Houdini of the hardwood! The guy JJ Redick described as, "Bob Cousy couldn't dribble with his left hand. Bob Cousy won championships when there were eight teams in the NBA, and you had to win two playoff series. Let's celebrate Bob Cousy in his era, but you can't compare pre-1980 with the modern NBA. You cannot...Did Bob Cousy ever shoot over 40% in his career? Not once. He was being guarded by plumbers and firemen."
But I was imagining what being an NBA *Fan* would have been like; catching games on the radio or tape delay, reading about players on the newspaper the next day or week, or talking about things over a beer, face to face in a social setting! My DNHQ complex would have not coped very well.
But then I thought, as alien as that fan experience is to today, I imagine sending back an NBA player from today would, to the Bob Cousy era players, appear equally, if not more, alien to them!!
So then I thought, which 5 players from today would I send back in time to play the best 5 players of that Era, as if they were like the aliens from Space Jam?!
Let's go with JJ's cutoff of players who have played post 1980 who have had the benefit of modern sports science, rule changes, etc that Cooz and the Plumber's did not have. But like you could send back Shaq, but would they be like, "Oh My God we've never seen anything like that guy before!!", or would they just think, "OK that's a massive human being, but he's no more skilled than our guy Wilt here."
So so far I've come up with:
1) Steph - No debate. The mad dribbling skills, off ball movement, vision, finishing at the rim circus shots, oh and they are not going to believe this guys shooting ability from the 'Longest 2 pointers ever' either! (Come to think of it, neither do we)
2) Wemby - He's already an Alien to us, so he gets in by default.
3) Jordan - Let's be honest, he was on another level, and he DID defeat the original Space Jam aliens so...
But that's all I got so far. Need 2 more 'Alien from the Future' type players.
Would Klay's shooting be alien enough? Iverson's skill and athleticism? Would GPII just pick pocket every possession like an otherworldly god?!
Who else would you send back on the: Space Time ContinuuJam?!
LeBron has 1,000x Wilt’s skill level, tho. To their eyes, peak LeBron would be like, peak Bill Russell’s athleticism and body (only way more jacked) with Cousy’s passing and ballhandling (only both-handed) and Sam Jones’ shooting.(only all the way out to 28-30 feet). With like 50 different on-ball moves no one in that era had ever seen.
I think I’d go Steph, MJ, LeBron, KD and Wemby.
Though — while their minds were being blown — one thing players of that era would have to get over is the distinct impression today’s players were carrying the ball on every possession.
You mean because today's players ARE carrying the ball on every possession? Also no 3-point shot then.
I'd at least consider Shaq, back when he could really run, rather than Wemby, who is amazing but still developing. And while it's hard to argue against KD, I'd consider Duncan.
Also don't underestimate Wilt. Remember he was a world-class athlete with incredible strength, body control, and leaping ability. Wilt was much stronger than LeBron, which is saying a lot. He could not only play above the rim, he could play above the backboard. The downside with Wilt was he didn't love hard contact.
That goes both ways. You bring guys like Wilt into the modern era, with its sports/nutrition science and techniques, they’d be very different players as well.
Beyond that, a good chunk of those moves would get shut down because guys could hammer him and hand check him, to go along with the double-dribbles and travels he and every other modern NBA player would get called for.
They would definitely be called for a lot of carrying. Everyone would have to relearn how to dribble shitty. They'd probably get so frustrated that they'd quit even trying to dribble, and just pass the ball....and win the game 246-72
Despite the GSW SL team being butt-tacular, it looks like some analytics think Richard and Armstrong were in the Top 12 players across the league on Day 2.
I tried to post the moon rise but it looks like pictures can’t appear? I figured out - it won’t be confirmed- warriors who had a tryout with yang were going to get a Brooklyn pick and grab him. And so Portland moves up to beat that and gets ridiculed for a too early choice but may turn out to be more than right
Very fair.
My guess is he has people in his ear that are not giving him the greatest advice, but I can also understand his frustration as a 22-year-old with high hopes of being a great player someday. Basketball is a difficult game to master, Curry centric basketball even more so. Being patient after four years is doable, but not exactly easy and different for each person based on life experiences. I didn’t grow up in Africa, so hard to walk in his shoes.
This article that set Laker & LeBronoids on fire yesterday has slipped in an edit (lol).
"After the publication of this article, sources said James was notified of the sale, via his representation. But he did not post any public acknowledgement."
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45712775/lebron-james-luka-doncic-most-delicate-superstar-transition-nba-history-los-angeles-lakers
Devin Carter 17 6-7 4-5 5-7 1 2 3 2 3 0 2 3 +7 21
Swoop! (don't look at his last game)
"[Charania] Cole Anthony has agreed to a contract buyout with the Memphis Grizzlies and plans to sign with the Milwaukee Bucks after he clears waivers, sources tell ESPN. Grizzlies finalized the buyout with Jeff Schwartz and Javon Phillips of Excel Sports for Anthony's new opportunity."
OT: a basketball version of this would be fun (don't watch enough soccer to recognize a lot of these without cheating)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXEMPXZ3PY1ife8JjYmXxbeTaH0S1tU4d
There's definitely someone on Bluesky who does these shape quizzes for guess the NBA player...
That Bucks roster headed into next season is disgusting man. Giannis will probably drag them to 45-50 wins but they have zero chance to do anything meaningful. I don't know why they're insisting on forcing the issue for a few years of mediocrity when they could easily get back a bunch of assets for an accelerated rebuild.
The duality of the East: tons of mediocre teams that have a small chance of being next year's Pacers if they catch lightening in a bottle
But the Pacers weren't some mediocre team that caught lightning in a bottle. They built well, with solid trades (Hali, Siakam) and good draft picks.
Yeah, I meant have a path to the finals through a bit a luck, not be a better team than the Pacers (although Giannis can definitely raise the floor of a team more than anyone on the Pacers, and even with a worse team, might win a few rounds by himself). Waiving Lillard was insane, though. That's 1/4 (or more) of a max contract wasted every year for a half a decade.
Waiving Lillard was definitely a WTF decision. Why throw away 112.6M? Crazy. Stretching his deal let them sign Myles Turner, which they couldn't do otherwise, so there's that. But still.
Yeah in a vacuum, Turner is nice, but they're paying him KD (or Lillard) money if you count the dead money
If I recall what I read correctly, Giannis didn't know they were going to waive Dame and sign Turner. It seems odd that they wouldn't talk to him first so maybe I am remembering that wrong. Either way, Giannis could look at the whole picture now and decide, "this ain't happening, I want out." Then signing Turner won't help them.
I remember Eric starting off one of his videos with a phrase that went something like "If you want to start an argument among Warrior fans, just say 'Jonathan Kuminga.'" Good line.
I have two questions for people here. I am not yet thinking about my own responses, these are my open questions for discussion:
1. Do you think that's true, that Kuminga's play and character and career are a notable bone of contention? More than let's say: KD being a hired gun; Poole or Wiggins being inconsistent; Wiseman not working out; Draymond losing his cool; Steph being -- well, Steph generates zero controversy -- Kerr's coaching; Lacob's ownership; etc. etc.?
2. If Kuminga's career is unusually likely to provoke debate, why do you think that is?
There is no debate for me as to raw atheticism vs High BB IQ. And then there's the work ethic and the team player thing. JK was close with Jordon Poole too. All these things contribute to an entitlement vibe that is my problem with JK. If he wants to stay, work hard and wait his turn ie Moses Moody. Hurray. If not, he creates an off note in a finely blended wine. He becomes a whine rather than making wine. I have no hard feelings. But if you give me 2 players to choose from I'll take the hard working, team player without the sour grapes. Kinda like smoke taint. It ruins the vintage.
People forget its a team sport. I watched the Valjyries last night. They lost by 1 point and they've lost a lot of these clutch games, but they're fun to watch. The home crowd loves them. I'd rather watch good basketball and lose than watch a team with bad chemistry and win. Even better is watching a team grow together and win. If JK stays he does so begrudgingly and that's my problem. Stars tend to be a combination of raw talent, incredible work ethic, passion and high native basketball IQ. That last one JK lacks and that is hard to accquire. It's like a 6th sense. Like being able to play 3 dimensional chess vs checkers. Maybe if JK lived and breathed BB that might improve but my impression is not. PODZ does not have half the raw talent of a JK. But he LOVES basketball and he loves hard work and whatever the team needs. He came in cocky and brash but he earned respect.
Last season folks were complaing about his play. Then you find out he had 2 surgeries. Moody played injured. Perhaps I'd be more sympathetic with JK if there was no MM or PODZ on the team. Or even GPII who was traded and came back. And I have seen the Poole, and even Klay affects and I'm like---as soon as you are that ourspokenly unhappy, I am let them go find their heaven elsewhere. JK's drama us self inflicted. He may materilize into greatness or not. But he isn't worth his asking and he was originally offered a generous contract and turned it down. I Wish him well but I'm tired of the drana. Same as Poole and Klay...and both if them really proved their worth, but when they were done with GSW it was over.
Kuminga clearly oozes raw athletic talent but also clearly has not yet figured out how to play winning team basketball, at least not in the Warriors' current system.
So the question becomes, whose fault is this? The coaching staff's or Kuminga's? Obviously, in retrospect the question of blame could have been avoided had the front office not forced this shotgun marriage. But the question remains.
Frustration.
Having the number 2 pick and not getting a good player, than having the 7th pick in a great draft and choosing the wrong player for their system which he clearly was from the beginning.
The 2 timeline fiasco.
Add in the “I am a star” attitude, or the perception that he has that attitude.
Fans love to win and love to blame. Blame Kerr. Blame JK. Blame Meyer.
I like how you added that there is a *perception* that he has an "I am a star" attitude. Because I really don't see it. I've seen ball hogs in my time. Hi Kobe, Iverson, et. al. Kuminga's touches do not exceed anyone else's, he passes. He doesn't have the full swing-the-ball-in-half-a-second thing that everyone wants all the way down, but that is hardly the same as saying he's out there just to prove he's a star. Fair?
Very fair.
My guess is he has people in his ear that are not giving him the greatest advice, but can also understand his frustration as a 22 year-old with high hopes of being a great player someday.
Basketball is a difficult game to master and Curry centric basketball even more so.
Being patient after four years is doable but not exactly easy and it’s different for each person based on life experiences. I didn’t grew up in Africa, so hard to walk in his shoes.
His obvious pure athleticism vs his not always apparent basic basketball skill level is something that opens up reactions from both perspectives, and questions as to his potential and team fit.
Pretty much all of this relies on second-hand reporting, so I don't want assert the items below as known facts, but many sources seem to agree on the general tone.
My issue with JK's character is that he seems like he wants to take shortcuts to greatness and wants teams to pay him based on what is still unrealized and maybe-never-realized potential.
Last season is not a good basis on which to judge him, because of the injury and the anxiety that comes from the pending extensions and his reported refusal of the fairly generous offer from the Dubs, so let's look at the season before. Comparing JK and Kawhi for their third respective season, a lot of the raw numbers are not too different:
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=leonaka01&p1yrfrom=2014&p1yrto=2014&player_id2=kuminjo01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024
JK actually played 26 more overall minutes in that season than Kawhi.
Their 2pt percentage is virtually identical, but JK's 3pt and FT percentages are significantly lower than Kawhi's. JK also got A LOT fewer defensive rebounds and turned that ball over 50% more often.
Kawhi won a championship and was named Finals MVP at the end of that season. A year later, after then also winning DPOY, he agreed to a 5-year 90M max extension with the Spurs.
The comparison for the advanced stats really tells the story: JK is nowhere near what Kawhi was at the same stage in his career. JK should take a reasonable Dubs offer and work on improving in time for this next contract in two or three years. He's not a max player, at least yet.
When the coaching staff tells him to focus on rebounding and ball-handling during the offseason, but JK mostly practices post moves, it tells me that he's cheating himself and his club out of potential greatness, which is super irritating.
I just don't know what the evidence is for this: "he wants to take shortcuts to greatness."
I don't know how many hours he practices as opposed to anyone else. He sure seems like he's fit, he sure seems to have worked on his game every year. Does he do that at the same level as other players? I really don't know how you would know that.
I'm always down with critiques of basketball performance, because those are viewable and measurable. But critiques of character are very different. Hard to know. Or like this; "JK mostly practices post moves," do you know that? How?
Kawhi also came into the league as a potentially elite defender and fully achieved that. JK has his moments defensively but never at Kawhi's level.
He is a phenomenally gifted athlete that at least so far isn't very good at basketball. In particular he isn't a good shooter, his handle isn't great, and he isn't good at team defense. HOWEVER, he is only 23 so he at least in theory get good at that stuff. Do fans want a player that could be great someday or a player for similar money that is actually is actually good right now? That is what fuels the debate.
Even better, he is still 22, turns 23 in October
I don't think it needs to be a bad-blood contentious type of thing.
You can have a great player and you can have a great system...there are times and places where a great player can't fit a successful system. You have a Hall of Fame coach designing plays to fit the player in, but sometimes, as with any relationship, sometimes both sides gotta look each other in the eye and ask if it is working. If it isn't, then ya gotta come to some understanding of how you're going to move on.
Fans are gonna fan. Predicting JK finds his market value this summer talking to the other teams, they sign a 3ish year contract in that range, give it the first half to work out, and if it doesn't, make a move at the trade deadline.
1. I don't think that JK's play and character are MORE notable than the other stories you listed.
2. I think there are multiple reasons why he is unusually likely to provoke debate:
- He is obviously talented but has gotten fewer opportunities than some would like; as a part of this, he had some high-profile DNPs in the playoffs, followed by some games where he put up numbers when thrust into the lineup after Steph was injured. Questioning nine-time champion Steve Kerr's ability to correctly handle a young talent has become a huge pastime among Warrior fans. What does /he/ know?!!
- He wants a BIG contract but hasn't done enough to justify it in the eyes of many fans. He wants to be paid for his /potential/. Show me the money!
- The Warriors' FO hasn't done anything in free agency, so fans have nothing else to talk about. If we had acquired Giannis or even Horford, Dame, or Beal, I doubt Kuminga would generate the kind of conversation he has so far.
Agreed mostly except it seems to me that Kuminga has generated this kind of debate his whole career, not just this last offseason.
In the past (2013-2020), you could trigger the same level of debate by saying “Harrison Barnes”. I think they both have plus athleticism and gorgeous highlights that make one think anything is possible (or alternately that they were underachieving by not being better), they both sought bigger contracts than a lot of fans thought they were worth, both sought bigger roles on championship level teams. Not the same in all dimensions, but a strong resemblance for me.
Nice post. And not that Barnes' "character" was beyond reproach by all accounts in terms of his offseason practice ethos and doing whatever the team asked of him
But I must admit that almost half of my pleasure in signing KD was not tying up so much of the salary cap in Barnes. After his 5-32 performance, I just wanted him to wish him the best of luck somewhere else.
Therefore, at least for me, this is not about Kuminga's character so much as it is about his career goals not perfectly meshing with my goal of watching Steph win another Championship with the Warriors.
Some similarities but Barnes was a much more polished, fundamentally sound player.
I would guess Barnes had much better coaching throughout his early life and was much better prepared for life as a Warrior.
Right. But I still did not want the Warriors to sign him to a huge contract.
Interesting comp. Both went #7 to the Dubs, both are 3/4 wings. Barnes was a five-star recruit out of high school, Wootten Player of the Year (#1 HS player in the nation), then two good years at UNC. He had a lot more BB experience and accomplishments than JK. More was expected from him from the get-go. As you said, not the same in all dimensions, but there are interesting parallels.
Good, I forgot the #7 thing. Also,
- in the draft, the sense was that after AD (of course), Beal, Lillard were off the board, Barnes was the consensus next player to pick at #7 even if he might be overrated vs JK falling to down to GSW at #7 after Giddey was unexpectedly picked early
- the Barnes pick only fell to GSW after some inspired losing plus a coin flip after the season that helped GSW keep it; the JK pick only fell to GSW after MIN did not win the lottery despite good odds.
One interesting contrast that is food for thought: Barnes was a starter because Igoudala, who had earned the right to start, agreed (reluctantly at first) to come off the bench. JK has mostly come off the bench because Draymond and Wiggs (and then Butler) have been ahead of him. Then again, Barnes was the better shooter.
True. And the ultimate contrast is that Barnes ended up being able to play in a lineup of Steph and the four next best players (a lineup that would take over the NBA)
Sure, but it depends on the definition of "able" in "being able to play in a lineup...." Kuminga can do that, there are different opinions as to how well it would work. I'm not persuaded that everything has been tried.
I think there are two big reasons for this - first, Kuminga is the last of the KD/Wiseman/Poole/Wiggans controversies still on the Warriors, so he's still a relevant topic and second, because the is Kuminga good debate also fit within the other debates - was Myers a good GM? Should Kerr's system be changed? Two-timelines? Etc, etc.
I’ll answer two by way of saying that I think Kuminga’s supporters and detractors have become increasingly entrenched in their positions because the former can only seem to see his athleticism and potential while the latter struggles to see past his deficiencies. Full disclosure, I’m in the second camp. I don’t think he’ll ever contribute meaningfully to winning unless he accepts he isn't that guy.
That type of entrenchment seems oddly familiar to me...I just can't recall where else I've seen it...
Respect for one's political opponents didn't kill itself.
If the entire league knows that JK is gone by the deadline next year, maybe just pay to salary dump him now and use the money to use the full NTPMLE to get another non-min player (in addition to Horford?). Or is no team willing to do that now (even for a protected 1st like the Poole trade?)?
They don't have to pay to salary dump him if they really want to get rid of him for nothing. They can just withdraw the QO and let him walk.
Im sure thats part of the discussion and if the Warriors had assurances of lets say Beale, Lillard, Horford signing into cap space theyd let JK go. They do not and as such are operating under the conditions of it either being JK or freeing up the slot for tax cap purposes only
r/nba
31 min. ago
u/Odd-Direction9452
[Stein/Fischer] Why is Beal's highly anticipated buyout from Phoenix unfolding so slowly? League sources say Beal's current contract stipulates that he is owed a 25% advance payment on July 15. It is believed that he could wait for that payment to go through before proceeding with a buyout.
He must have a cagey agent. He seems to have a better deal than anyone in the league!
I believe it’s Bartelstein. And, yes, he’s very good.
Plus that deal was negotiated with the Wizards front office, which at the time was very bad.
TBF, the Wizards front office knew it was an overpay at the time. The owner was rewarding Beal for his loyalty to the team (Beal wanted to stay in Washington).
It blew up in their face when they realized how hideous an overpay it was, but they still managed to get off of the contract.
Phoenix has zero excuses on that score.
While that may be true, I'd say the Wizards' record is not a ringing endorsement of their FO's or owner's competence.
Brett Siegel/Legion Hoops is reporting that JK is expected to re-sign with the Warriors with the expectation he'll be traded by the trade deadline. Take with that what you will.
There was some report about Kuminga's camp meeting with Kerr and Dunleavy at Summer League so this is probably the result of that.
So it's like we're renting him for a half-season at the probable cost of a future protected 1st-rounder to dump him later. Not the worst thing in the world, and it's possible he could take a leap in the first half and we get something back.
I would've preferred to trade him last off-season (not for Paul George), though
I don't think that's the plan. There's no reason to do it that way. If they are re-signing him for a multi-year deal to trade him at the deadline, they probably expect real value for him at that time.
Otherwise, they'd withdraw the QO and be done with it. Or they can sit on the QO, and if he doesn't get a better offer, he can take it or leave it and go play overseas. If he takes it, he'd be UFA next summer, but they could still trade him at the deadline as an expiring deal and just ask for spare parts in return.
And if they do re-sign him, they don't HAVE to trade him at the deadline if they can't find a good deal. They can wait for next summer. That is, unless he really sucks, but that seems unlikely.
At the very least, it would keep us for hard-capping ourselves at the first apron at any time for the next year, and possibly having a somewhat large salary on the books beyond Curry (which is why is would package Moody and Podz sometime in the next 8 months - but that's a different discussion)
You mean if we S&T JK? We would not be hard-capped, the other team would be. That is, unless we take back a S&T player in the deal.
If we sign JK now, we'll probably be over the 1st apron if we sign Horford and Melton, etc., so we can't make any move that would hard-cap us at that level (which limits our options, especially in the off-season, but also in signing a waived player at the deadline). (Sorry, wasn't super clear)
Edit (but too long for last comment): things we couldn't do if we signed JK (and we went over the 1st apron), because they would trigger a hard cap at the 1st apron:
TP-MLE Exceeded: Sign one or more players using the Mid-Level Exception and the sum exceeds the taxpayer MLE limit. ($5,685,000 for the 2025-26 season)
TP-MLE Length Exceeded: Sign a player using the Mid-Level Exception and the length exceeds the taxpayer MLE limit (2 years).
MLE Trade: Use the taxpayer MLE to acquire a player in a trade
MLE Waivers: Use the taxpayer MLE to acquire a player through waivers
BAE: Sign, trade for, or claim a player on waivers using the Bi-Annual Exception
S&T: Acquire a player through a sign-and-trade
Trade Salary Acquired: In a trade, the team acquired salary
Waived & Signed: Signs a player who was waived during the regular season and whose pre-waiver salary was higher than the non-taxpayer mid-level exception
Past-Season TPE: Uses a traded player exception generated during the previous off-season or regular season
https://www.salaryswish.com/hard-cap-tracker/2026
Or he gets hurt and we're stuck with one of the worst contracts in the league, because JK minus even 5% athleticism is barely a rotation player, as seen when his ankle wasn't 100%.
Anyway, this is pretty much the best we can hope for (aside from renouncing the QO and using the money to add actual winning players).
Yeah that's what I try to keep stressing, re-signing Kuminga isn't all upside, there's plenty of risk as well.
Hopefully the Warriors are able to walk back some of the comments that Kerr made and aren't obligated to "give the Kuminga/Green/Butler trio a long leash" and can bring Kuminga off the bench and not be forced to play him 30+ minutes a night.
Not to mention the inevitable cloud hanging over the team at least until the trade deadline. I’m sure all parties would remain professional but it’s not easy for any side to play with somebody knowing they’re on their way out soon. I get the business side of the approach but it’s just unfortunate it got to this point.
And that cloud is the leverage Kuminga has in these negotiations now too. If they are heading for an exit, Kuminga could make it pleasant by being "a good soldier" or could make it difficult. The Warriors don't want the difficult route because that will affect their eventual trade leverage if everyone knows the situation is untenable, we just saw that with Butler.
So how much do they have to pay Kuminga for Kuminga to be willing to "play nice" until he's traded?
No one knows. It's the uncertainty about this whole situation that's such a damn mess for a core who I think is in their "last dance" year as far as trying to win a championship goes. Obviously they're signed for next year as well but IMO this is it.
Sigh. More distractions on the way. Yay.
Fill in this sentence please:
"The most important development for the future of the Warrior's franchise that has happened during the offseason is ...."
We did NOTHING to seize the last, 2yr, window of opportunity for a 'Ship run with STEPH/DRAY/JIMMY's possibly last 2 yrs together, while losing LOONS, yet, another piece of our last 'Ship Team...so far, anyway...I mean, really, what did we bring MDJ's former teammate JIMMY on board for if we are not going all-out for a last run the next 2 yrs? Hello KLAY/HORFORD! Or, is MDJ surreal enough to think he would replace KLAY and LOONS with SCHROEDER/HIELD/MOODY/PODZ/ET AL, in the STARTING LINEUP OF A CONTENDER? We already wasted one year with experimentation while running STEPH AND JIMMY TO THE GROUND. More of the same? Does the GM have any idea of what DUBS BALL/KERR-BALL that changed the game is all about? All he had to do was keep KLAY and get HORFORD this year...Can still DO IT; only now he is going to have to enlist STEPH/DRAY/JIMMY to reach out to KLAY and do some KD-style recruiting, complete with a starting role! Or, is his ego bigger than the team...Lol
we did not trade JK for Sacramento's table scraps.
Given the latest news, Sac's table scraps may be way better than what we get at the deadline. Or they might be a lot worse. It's a gamble, though.
NTMLE > Sac’s crap
If we reneg the offer would it be a Back Sac and Crap Tax?!
Not much of one.
We're talking about a guy who put up 22 pts/7 rbs per 36 last season. Maybe he's not a good fit for our team, but the takes that he's just not worth much are really off base.
He's definitely worth more than that, it's just that teams aren't willing to give us anywhere near what he's worth (and probably won't at the deadline)
But, what's the rush? Why do we have to do something now?
Maybe we lose Horford because we are waiting on JK, but that's hardly the end of the world.
As long as Steph and Butler are mostly healthy, next year's Dubs are a playoff team right now. There will be other centers available before the trade deadline.
I've just never seen what the pressure is to sell low ...there is no need for that, and many reasons not to (one being, that JK might just be better by the trade deadline).
But at the deadline it won't be considered S&T so it won't hard-cap the other team. That makes a difference. And we can't foresee what might motivate other teams at the deadline. Lots can happen between now and then.
“Outside of players like Malcolm Brogdon, Trey Lyles, and Gary Payton II, who we previously reported as potential free-agent targets for the Warriors this offseason, two other interesting names were brought up in conversations during the first two days of NBA Summer League: Seth Curry and Ben Simmons.” — BS [Brett Siegel]
I wouldn't be thrilled by Simmons, that's for sure.
A lot depends on whether we are hard-capped or not.
If not, then a min contract for Simmons is not much of a risk. If we are hard-capped, then that salary would count if we had to cut him later (I believe).
I guess he could fit into the KA low scoring, high connectivity kind of guy role, and be an option when Dray or Butler can't go. Not sure Gui wouldn't be a better choice in that situation, though.
Assuming his back is OK I don't have a problem with Simmons as backup PG in place of Pat Spencer. Basically you gain 7 inches in height (and wingspan) on defense.
I have zero faith that he could stay healthy, but like I say, if he's on a min and we're not hardcapped, fine. We can just cut him when he does get injured and sign someone else.
Honestly, though, I'm not super-thrilled with this 'let's get all the over-the-hill vets strategy'. I see why they are doing it, but look how well that's worked for the Clips lately.
I would definitely take Brogdon, Curry, Horford, Melton, and Simmons when the only tool we had was the TPMLE. That's a fair bit of talent for minimal resources.
They ain't perfect, but they are NBA players.
We absolutely couldn't play him with Butler, Dray, and another defensive player (GPII?) at the same time, but on a minimum contract we could do a lot worse than a 1-4+ switchable defender. Yes, he's a black hole on offense, but with Melton and Horford (and Buddy and Podz), he could facilitate, run the floor, and make up for the lack of defense. We could play him at multiple positions off the bench to help hold leads.
If Seth is actually considering returning, that's a definite yes.
GPII I want back, but he might want more than a min for one of his last contracts?
The theory with Simmons might just be he plays big minutes when Draymond rests.
Although I thought it was well established that Butler was not a fan of Simmons, but maybe he was more upset with the lack of accountability in Philly's organization at the time and/or would be cool with it as long as he's making 50+ million and Simmons is making a minimum lol.
Is that whole list depressing to anyone else? (<3 u GPII)
Not if we get Melton and Horford (essentially limiting the rest of the offseason to min players and whatever we get for JK)
Not to Ben Simmons!
When you wrote 'Rip the city,' were actually not going for Rip City, but 'R.I.P. The City'?
Weird comparison maybe, but Yang sort of reminds me of a 7'0 version of SloMo. He's surprisingly smooth in his movements, including when he drives to the basket.
So I have this condition called Dopamine Needed, Help Quick! (DNHQ) and I use this special type of medication called Anything DubNation Helps Deeply (ADHD), but for some reason the supply is running reeeaaallly low right now... like I might actually have to start chasing men's gymnast's rings (that did not sound right even as I typed it).
But in my flights of fantasy I was taken back in time to the time of being an NBA fan when Bob Cousy was dribbling circles around the league. Yes, That Bob Cousy - The Houdini of the hardwood! The guy JJ Redick described as, "Bob Cousy couldn't dribble with his left hand. Bob Cousy won championships when there were eight teams in the NBA, and you had to win two playoff series. Let's celebrate Bob Cousy in his era, but you can't compare pre-1980 with the modern NBA. You cannot...Did Bob Cousy ever shoot over 40% in his career? Not once. He was being guarded by plumbers and firemen."
But I was imagining what being an NBA *Fan* would have been like; catching games on the radio or tape delay, reading about players on the newspaper the next day or week, or talking about things over a beer, face to face in a social setting! My DNHQ complex would have not coped very well.
But then I thought, as alien as that fan experience is to today, I imagine sending back an NBA player from today would, to the Bob Cousy era players, appear equally, if not more, alien to them!!
So then I thought, which 5 players from today would I send back in time to play the best 5 players of that Era, as if they were like the aliens from Space Jam?!
Let's go with JJ's cutoff of players who have played post 1980 who have had the benefit of modern sports science, rule changes, etc that Cooz and the Plumber's did not have. But like you could send back Shaq, but would they be like, "Oh My God we've never seen anything like that guy before!!", or would they just think, "OK that's a massive human being, but he's no more skilled than our guy Wilt here."
So so far I've come up with:
1) Steph - No debate. The mad dribbling skills, off ball movement, vision, finishing at the rim circus shots, oh and they are not going to believe this guys shooting ability from the 'Longest 2 pointers ever' either! (Come to think of it, neither do we)
2) Wemby - He's already an Alien to us, so he gets in by default.
3) Jordan - Let's be honest, he was on another level, and he DID defeat the original Space Jam aliens so...
But that's all I got so far. Need 2 more 'Alien from the Future' type players.
Would Klay's shooting be alien enough? Iverson's skill and athleticism? Would GPII just pick pocket every possession like an otherworldly god?!
Who else would you send back on the: Space Time ContinuuJam?!
I'd have to add Jokic, who might look like one of their plumbers until he starts shooting and passing
I think LeBron’s combination of size, strength and athleticism would blow their minds.
https://youtube.com/shorts/gCf17f6L3ns?si=m16XrzuQoDbM0S9O
LeBron would surely be amazing to them, but they did have Wilt, so he wouldn’t be alien to them I’d say.
LeBron has 1,000x Wilt’s skill level, tho. To their eyes, peak LeBron would be like, peak Bill Russell’s athleticism and body (only way more jacked) with Cousy’s passing and ballhandling (only both-handed) and Sam Jones’ shooting.(only all the way out to 28-30 feet). With like 50 different on-ball moves no one in that era had ever seen.
I think I’d go Steph, MJ, LeBron, KD and Wemby.
Though — while their minds were being blown — one thing players of that era would have to get over is the distinct impression today’s players were carrying the ball on every possession.
You mean because today's players ARE carrying the ball on every possession? Also no 3-point shot then.
I'd at least consider Shaq, back when he could really run, rather than Wemby, who is amazing but still developing. And while it's hard to argue against KD, I'd consider Duncan.
Also don't underestimate Wilt. Remember he was a world-class athlete with incredible strength, body control, and leaping ability. Wilt was much stronger than LeBron, which is saying a lot. He could not only play above the rim, he could play above the backboard. The downside with Wilt was he didn't love hard contact.
In fairness, LeBron shooting 3s happened later in his career.
That goes both ways. You bring guys like Wilt into the modern era, with its sports/nutrition science and techniques, they’d be very different players as well.
Beyond that, a good chunk of those moves would get shut down because guys could hammer him and hand check him, to go along with the double-dribbles and travels he and every other modern NBA player would get called for.
Edit: plus the offensive fouls
https://youtube.com/shorts/_d6-6zh59EY?si=GNXHlvzJAlv31g-V
They would definitely be called for a lot of carrying. Everyone would have to relearn how to dribble shitty. They'd probably get so frustrated that they'd quit even trying to dribble, and just pass the ball....and win the game 246-72
I would also add Giannis into the mix for the same reasons.
Despite the GSW SL team being butt-tacular, it looks like some analytics think Richard and Armstrong were in the Top 12 players across the league on Day 2.
https://bsky.app/profile/owenphillips.bsky.social/post/3ltqmqjvqjk2u
Matches my admittedly desperately seeking half-full eye test.
I WANT TO BELIEVE
I tried to post the moon rise but it looks like pictures can’t appear? I figured out - it won’t be confirmed- warriors who had a tryout with yang were going to get a Brooklyn pick and grab him. And so Portland moves up to beat that and gets ridiculed for a too early choice but may turn out to be more than right