Steve Kerr on James Wiseman: "This has just not been an easy one to figure out. We're still hopeful he'll be cleared for contact soon, but there hasn't been an opportunity for that to happen this week."
So hopefully we can get him back late March early April and get him some run this year just to prepare him for a bigger role next year. I go back and forth with Bjelica but I’d rather see Kuminga as a small ball 5 on defense when Draymond gets back and let Bjelica take one step up and fire away 3s in that second unit before we try and upgrade. But I toggle back and forth especially now that Dray is out for a few weeks
When he can play, he will be playing. The extra surgery was a setback, but he should be on the floor in about 30 days. Once he can actually play, he will be in the mix. Come playoff time, he'll be rocking 16 minutes a game, and if he is not, I'll eat my shorts.
LeVert and Brogdon also out. Basically, all of their potential deadline pieces are out tonight. Time to get out the super soakers and blast them out of Chase.
Other than Westbrook, name another MVP winner ever who turned into a player no one much wanted -- without injury or being really old. Underscores how bull-pucky his MVP was. Rose, Bill Walton got injured. Did Nash's bloom fade? Iverson's? Only example I got is that Bob McAdoo turned out to be McADon't on defense, but that's going in the wayback machine.
I mean, he was arguably the most explosive athletic point guard ever. Only one close was Rose and look how all over the place he’s been since his mvp. I think Russ’s decline was always going to go the way it did and I’m sure lots of us talked about it at the time. The way he played was never going to age well. Still fun to watch in his prime and laughably underrated on this site and in this fanbase due to… well, I’d call it a small minded inferiority syndrome this fanbase should have left behind years ago. But I’ve made that point here before and was told the Westbrook hate/obsession on dbhq isn’t that.
Russ's MVP award happened because the league felt sorry for him after KD left, and hadn't yet realized that any scrub could get triple doubles if they're the only player on the team allowed to do anything. Period. He has never, for even one minute in his career, been an MVP-caliber player, and once he's been retired for a few years, it'll be pretty much common knowledge among all sports-media that his MVP is the most undeserved in all of professional sports history, by a laughable margin. In 20 years, it will be the go-to example whenever anybody wants to say that individual awards are all about narratives and can't be used as real indicators of a player's greatness. Personally, I don't think he's even a shoe-in for the hall of fame, like so many seem to believe. If he is, it is, again, only because of the story, not the performance.
I sent him an email after this column appeared with a link to a statistical analysis showing how Westbrook was padding his stats. He replied that there was no clear-cut choice for MVP, and "I don't care what the numbers say; Westbrook is not padding his stats. He's just playing with maniacal intensity every second he's on the court."
Absolutely spot on and extremely well said. Not only is he not a shoe-in for the hall of fame, he's not even a shoe-in for a shoe endorsement. I think the biggest impact of his career will be for people to abandon the triple-double as a useful metric of much of anything.
Y'all are totally ignoring Westbrook's fashion game. Not only did the guy average a triple double, he did it with style. We talk about Steph changing the game. How about Russ? We literally watch players arriving to work now like an episode of Project Runway. Hall of Fashion, first ballot. Enough with the disrespect! LMAO
Yeah, let's not go crazy. Russ is (was?) a really good player that isn't a great outside shooter and someone that has made some memorable mental errors. When he had players around him that were great outside shooters, he got them the ball and usually created some space for them by driving the lane. His problems usually stem from trying to win a game by himself and he just isn't that guy.
I agree that Russ was a good player ——the violence which he dunks is so entertaining. But he seemed to be a good player that put a cap on how good a team can be when he plays with other good or great players.
I always wondered how OKC would have faired if they kept Harden and traded Russ. (BKL is sort of that but Harden while still good and skilled seems so much less in shape. Incredibly, Durant is still amazing but I hope he can stay healthy)
Exactly. I do think he probably gets in, most likely first-ballot, but that's because of the narrative. If he actually had to compete with other candidates on a performance basis, he wouldn't even be on the ballot.
MVP & DPOY. This is the last year either Steph or Dray are going to snatch one of these individual rewards. A #1 defense and a strong late season surge during a road heavy schedule could bring the awards home. But that will be it. The problem with Steph is, the better the team is, the more he sacrifices personal numbers for team winning. And by the end of the year, the perception of the team may be that the roster is stacked (despite all the missed time of players earlier in season). Steph will do whatever he has to do to win and often that results in setting screens, using his gravity and being a decoy which doesn't show up in the stat sheet. It's a similar situation for Dray. It's not Dray against the world as people are getting hip to Wiggs-Looney-GPII and others as being big contributors to the Warrior's defensive success.
Still, a 1 or 2 seed and a top rated defense after some preseason predictions had the Warriors out of the playoffs and play in altogether, may be the story line that carries the day and brings the hardware home. This won't happen again moving forward, which is why I feel like this will be the last chance for Curry-Dray to take these home.
Luckily I don't care much about these awards. My priorities are high quality basketball that is fun to watch, wins a lot of the time, and a deep post-season run. After that, yes, another ring. Awards? Whatever.
The only thing in Draymond's way is playing time if this injury takes time. Otherwise I haven't seen anyone in media argue against him. Steph has had a slump. Is it significant? Is it the end of the world? I'm not here for that right now. I just think the perception has changed. He needs to right that ship to hold off Giannis, Jokic, Morant, etc.
Yeah, I think it's the last 20 games. Everyone (media) loves the Warriors' story line. Man, and there are some great players balling in the league right now. So I think its going to be a finish at the wire, and whoever has the best last 15-20 game stretch should take it home.
as great as the Joker is, it chaps me pretty considerably that a lot of the same people who shat on Steph last year for the Dubs seeding are giving Jokic a pass because he is "carrying the team".
Yup. Igoudala, as much as I love him, only has that FMVP because the media decided that it was LeBron's before the series even started, but couldn't justify giving it to the loser, so they gave it to Iggy, "for defending LeBron", specifically as a middle finger to Steph.
In the ongoing debate regarding the importance of true big men in the NBA, last night was pretty kind to the Big Fella argument. None of the guys listed below exactly plays I AM SHAQ MOVE OUT THE WAY style, but they all do sometimes score near the rim and protect it, to some extent. Their height matters. I'd be interested in what DNHQ thinks about a night in which: Embiid 50 points 12 rebounds in 27 minutes; Jokic 49-14-10; Giannis 33-15-7 in 31 mins; Zubac 32-10; Jaren Jackson 29-9; KAT 17-10-7; Vucevic 24-12; Markkanen (does he count?) 28-7; Adebayo 20-11-4, 5 steals; Nurkic 18-14; Gobert 23-9-4. As that TV show asks: something, nothing, or everything? [Note: examples that don't prove my point not included]
The thing with Embiid, Jokic, and Jackson is that they can take and make 3s as can Giannis to a lessor extent. As you said, they aren't just bullying people out of the way.
So here's my take: basketball is a sport where being tall automatically gives you an advantage over being short. In a league where "good" scoring came from near the basket, tall people did everything they could to get better and better at scoring from short range.
Curry comes along and did the unthinkable by proving that mathematically 3>2. Kerr revolutionized basketball with the SMDS and suddenly positionless basketball becomes all the rage. To that point only short guys shot from out there because they were too small to score inside. Suddenly, it feels like being big is a liability because none of those big players are either used to shooting from long range or guarding out that far.
At this point, enough time has passed that tall players are learning that they actually can shoot the ball from long range if they eat their Wheaties and believe in themselves enough. Also, teams are scheming better so that their tall players don't just get run off the floor on defense. Suddenly, the pendulum starts to swing back and tall people are realizing maybe they actually do have a natural advantage after all so long as they can shoot from far away and maybe dribble the ball and pass it a little bit.
Agree 98% I would only add something you didn't explicitly say but maybe meant: that as the pendulum swings back, the tall guys and their coaches are also re-realizing that being near the basket is also a really good option when you're that big. This all started with George Mikan and everyone was like "woah, if you're big, skilled and close, it's really hard to stop you," and that lasted until the small ball era, but it's still true.
After Draymond destroyed the tradition idea of (and average salaries) of NBA centers, there has been an adjustment. The idea that bigs aren't important and not needed - which we hear all the time - is just lazy. There has been a shift from the old back to basket center to big men that have a range of different skills. While centers may not dominate in the paint the way they used to, today's centers are finding a host of other ways to contribute on the court. All skills being equal, you would still rather have the bigger guy in this league. I think a true big man today is just a big who helps his team win, one way or the other, and there are a lot of them.
Both Sabonis and Turner out tonight. LeVert and Brogdon listed as questionable. That's four of their starters and the four players with the most mpg this season. Are they just throwing this game?
I posted this on another thread, but I can't stop thinking about it. The early stage new Klay is reminding me of Mullin. Not particularly athletic or fast moving, but good size/length. Can maneuver with the ball, get to spots even though they look like they are about to get their pockets picked. Can square up anywhere on the floor and get a clean shot off. We always talked about the BBIQ of Dray, Andre, Bogut, etc. But watching Klay now, his IQ seems a bit more obvious since we are all fixated on his every move. Klay is not a GP2 in your face defender, but, like Mullin, he's always in the right spot, great team defender, and quick hands get him deflections and blocks. Few could pass like Mully, but given the make-up of current team and the future team, I could see Klay ramping up his assist totals. Not that Klay is going to start playing point forward, but I wouldn't mind seeing a little more of "Dribble-Klay". This would throw defenders into a total funk. Defenders simply won't know how to react if Klay dribbled the ball up past half court and initiated some action. Refs might even have to stop the game, go to replay, unsure of what they saw.
Love the comparison - makes me want to watch old games. However, though my memory is cloudy, I think this undervalues Klay’s oak tree defense - he’s way better in more situations and spots on the court than Mullins.
Yeah, Klay has the leg up on Mully defensively, but Mully was better offensively. But both probably have the text book shooting motion from the left or right.
Ha ha, this is pretty good. Same height too. I always loved when speedier guys would blow by Mully to the basket thinking they had any easy layup. Then Mully would reach over their back shoulder and block the shot. He did this so much I began to believe he suckered guys into it. His IQ was through the roof. Could you imagine him on this current team...
This is a great insight and dead on. When I'm watching the Dubs the last few weeks I either get fixated on watching Klay or Kuminga, whether they have the ball or not. And then rewinding to watch the other one.
Yeah, both Klay & Mully have that mid range slight fade away, could also drift sideways, shot where they have beautifully square shoulders to the basket and the best shooting form on the planet. I would love to see some side by side vids. Hey Apricot, got any old Mully footage?
Jan 20, 2022·edited Jan 20, 2022Liked by punk basketball
There have been some interesting tidbits about the draft process of Kuminga over the past year and who was involved.
There was a mention that Kenny Atkinson was the first person in the Warrior organization to recognize Kuminga's potential to be a smallball big man (Myers mentioned it in a recent podcast with Kawakami plus there were articles about how Atkinson worked Kuminga out pre-draft and wanted to see what his rim protection abilities were like).
In yesterday's Chronicle article on Kuminga, there was a mention that Mahlalela studied Kuminga's shooting pre-draft and identified potential mechanical issues that made him optimistic about Kuminga's shot.
Makes me wonder who they'd have picked if they hadn't hired those two. Perhaps it would have still been Kuminga, but perhaps not. Although I still suspect that Giddey was their original target based on Lacob's post-draft quote plus what Giddey's dad said:
Also, I would love for some reporter to one day get at the truth of if Kerr really was pushing for them to draft Davion Mitchell at 7 or not lol. If so, please get that man out of the draft room.
The Warriors "really wanted" Duarte at 14 and were crushed when he wasn't there.
I dunno, I chalk a lot of this up to straight BS. Hard to filter through it and tell what might have some truth and what's just agents pumping their client or teams blowing smoke.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kerr liked DM. I always felt Steve has this strong thread of Old NBA DNA and it still seems hard for him to let go of the idea of a traditional point guard, at least one, on the team. Kind of like a safety blanket. Mannion, Cheeze, Wannamaker. He's not entirely wrong. After Steph & Dray, you kind of want someone else on the bench who can dribble around a bit. I think we just need to get used to always having an underwhelming back-up point guard on the roster.
Interesting, thanks. If this is truly the case then I am even gladder that the Dubs go with a committee approach to drafting with input from many different perspectives considered as opposed to having a single person like the head coach, GM, or owner making those decisions unilaterally.
Hmm... good plan. Everyone in SF keep your eyes out for a tall Georgian walking around! It's up to each of us to do our part. If you see something, say something!
17 PTS, 8 REBS and 5 BLK for Onyeka Okongwu in a win over Minnesota. He’s now averaging 2.6 BLK in 26.5 MIN while shooting 79% over his last 5. Touch, hands and instincts. Still think he’ll be the best big from his draft class like we wrote in Oct of 2020
Jan 20, 2022·edited Jan 20, 2022Liked by punk basketball
No sighing here — good for OO. We can’t realistically expect everyone in the draft not picked by the Warriors to suck. And Okongwu kicking ass does not affect Wiseman’s ability to kick ass when he gets healthy.
If OO were on the Suns or Grizz or some other team in our Finals path this year, I might sigh.
Understandable but I don't post any Lamelo Ball tweets because I had him nowhere near the Dubs radar (or my own wish list) last draft. Okungwu would have been the perfect big man on a trade back (which i s what I was advocating) and im happy he's been markedly improving. Now with GP2 and Kuminga playing so well, you'll see the occasional Davion Mitchell tweet but nowhere near in frequency from me. Looney playing so well but with another Wiseman setback (albeit not on his own) just can't help thinking What ifs especially since this core is not getting any younger
I'm curious what the Klay news did to the Warriors draft mindset in 2020.
Maybe Klay out is what convinced them to take the high upside guy instead of trade back or something, since they likely weren't gonna compete in 2020 without Klay.
There were and are definitely arguments for preferring OO. He seems like a more a natural fit in Kerrball. And he’s healthy. On the flipside….
(1) At #2 you typically want to go upside/value over fit. Nearly every draft expert had Wiseman ranked above Okongwu in that regard. Athletic 7-0, 7-6 wingspanned, 250+ lb. guys with stretch big potential are a much rarer commodity than switchable 6-8 235 interior players. Check out Alc’s draft take on Wiseman to jog your memory: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJRG8chK6bU
(2) In the realm of fit: at the time of the draft the Warriors already had not one but two switchable 6-9 235 interior players in Looney and Chriss. We had no way of knowing Chriss would suffer a serious injury and end up off the roster. While not a natural Kerrball fit, Wiseman was a much better *roster fit* than OO in that he gave us something totally new that didn’t duplicate stuff we already had.
(3) Kuminga can bring a lot of what we’d get from Okongwu, and a whole lot more. (In related news, Davion Mitchell’s first 1000 NBA minutes at age 23 have been mostly poor).
(4) Wiseman could still be a stud.
(5) As CSNY sang, if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with. No use crying over spilt milk, etc.
(6) The Warriors are currently the best team in the NBA by net rating.
(7) No core, indeed no thing that exists, is “getting any younger.” But the Warriors have Kuminga 19, Moody 19, Wiseman 20, Poole 22, and Wiggins 26. Like.
That’s a baker’s half-dozen. Turn that frown upside down! :-)
He mentioned wanting us to trade down so your #1 doesn't counter that. On the other hand, it seemed like all of our trade down offers were a steaming pile of poo poo that totally undervalued the #2 pick so IMHO that wasn't actually a real option.
Yeah, OO or Haliburton on a trade back was on my radar, but if the trade wasn't there, you take the guy you need to take. OO is a great guy and I wish him well. And he could help make the Hawks relevant again. But more than happy to let Wiseman develop and prove everyone wrong.
Haliburton on a trade back was the move. But that's a draft made while the Dubs really had no idea what their post-KD team was going to look like, so a skilled 7 footer may have seemed like a safe bet.
Interesting you'd call that "blasting him publicly". He was asked why he kept him out, and he didn't say anything directly critical. He was blunt. "Playing the guys that I thought were going to win the game." Which on its face is more of a compliment to the guys he played.
Due to Westbrook's perceived status and ego, yeah he will almost certainly take it as an insult. But really, zooming out why should we or anyone else? Westbrook is truly getting publicly blasted by fans and media everywhere for having his worst season and failing to fit at all with LeBron.
I think of the two Vogel is more likely to be gone. This to me is a "nothing to lose" move. He's fighting to keep his job. He needs Westbrook to make changes. He's willing to have the hard conversation with Russ if he does feel insulted.
I guess I don't see what Russ is going to do about it. Demand a trade? Sit out? I don't know what leverage he has when he's not helping them win and no one else wants him.
What I really want is for the Lakers to bend over backwards and mortgage the future EVEN MORE than they already have to dump him, and then slowly realize the cupcake schedule they had early has morphed into one of the toughest schedules in the league the rest of the way and still get stuck in the play-in or out of the playoffs altogether.
I extremely want a guy getting paid 44 million this year and 47 million next year who can't shoot and whose stats have always been inflated and has always been confused on defensed and isn't even effective unless the whole team is built around him. (By one metric -- I forget which -- the worst offensive player in the league with a minimum certain number of minutes.) Sign me UP!!
You forgot "who believes 100% that he is the best player on your team except maybe LeBron" and "who believes in himself so much that no matter what he does on the court he shrugs it off and keeps doing the same stuff"
Given how hard it would be to actually trade Westbrook, would it be more likely AD and LeBron demand they themselves get traded so they don't waste away their finals years?
I mean, I agree that Westbrook *should* get traded, but at this point who wants him and for what? Is there a tanking team wanting to take him on for the rest of this season AND next season? (He has a player option that he'd be crazy not to take). Are there any big name free agents coming up in 2023 that a team might want to have Westbrook's salary coming off the books just in time to go after them? And in that case, do they have the salary/players to trade away that the Lakers would actually want?
I completely get the desire to trade Westbrook (we all laughed when they acquired him), but who is going to play ball? The Lakers don't even really have future draft picks to sweeten the pot. You make a big trade at this point in the season because you're either a. selling (read, tanking) and so want to give up your talent (or disgruntled players) for future value, or b. buying and want to give up roll players and future assets for players who can help you win now.
Are the Lakers buyers or sellers? They would make more sense as sellers given how disappointing this season has been. It would actually make a ton of sense to trade away LeBron and Davis for a boat load of young talent/draft picks and KEEP Westbrook, tank next season, and then chase big name FA talent in 2023. They actually pretty well positioned to do something like that. But they're the Lakers, so they don't do things like that.
They just don't have the future or current assets to be buyers. Is there value to be had in trading away Westbrook? I'm just not seeing it.
Given their current standing position, they can't possibly tank. Plus they have to put their stars on the floor to satisfy their huge TV/ad contracts. If anything they will be buyers at the trade deadline. Given what assets they have to trade, they will likely have to overpay. This will be really interesting.
What does an overpaying trade by the Lakers even look like? What assets do they even have to overpay with? They essentially have zero draft picks they can trade away, and I'm not seeing any developing players or other player assets to throw in the mix to sweeten the pot. They really went all in on Westbrook and I'm really not seeing a way out of this mess for them.
I think we're going to remember this as one of the biggest roster mismanagements in NBA history.
If he were bought out and just available for vet minimum (dunno if that's legal), would you even want the Dubs to pick him up? I reluctantly have to say I would but it's not the clearest.
If they want to tank this season, they can easily get to the #6 spot... oh wait, they don't keep any of their own good draft picks until 2026, so tanking next season ain't worth much either.
Yeah, that also puts them in a bind. Tanking does nothing for them, but if they trade LeBron and AD for young talent they can spend the next year and a half developing those young players before making a splashy move in FA in 2023. They're definitely not getting any help in the draft any time soon!
Only one that realistically works is Wall for Westbrook but why would Houston do that unless the Lakers can package other players for marginal draft picks
Still worst... Cavs are building now, what are they going to do with a Westbrook?!?!?! I get that they're down guards and playmakers, but still... there are going to be better things to do with Love, Sexton, and Osman...
Team has an overall average =/- of -1.5. So in 45 games that should be a total =/- of -67.5. So if I'm doing that right, the Lakers have a much worse overall =/- with him off the floor than with him on the floor.
Connor Letourneau
@Con_Chron
Steve Kerr on James Wiseman: "This has just not been an easy one to figure out. We're still hopeful he'll be cleared for contact soon, but there hasn't been an opportunity for that to happen this week."
So hopefully we can get him back late March early April and get him some run this year just to prepare him for a bigger role next year. I go back and forth with Bjelica but I’d rather see Kuminga as a small ball 5 on defense when Draymond gets back and let Bjelica take one step up and fire away 3s in that second unit before we try and upgrade. But I toggle back and forth especially now that Dray is out for a few weeks
When he can play, he will be playing. The extra surgery was a setback, but he should be on the floor in about 30 days. Once he can actually play, he will be in the mix. Come playoff time, he'll be rocking 16 minutes a game, and if he is not, I'll eat my shorts.
Geez I have all fingers crossed you’re right and you don't have to eat your shorts
Pacers injury report:
TJ Warren- out
Myles Turner- out
Domantas Sabonis- out
TJ McConnell- out
Caris LeVert- questionable
Malcolm Brogdon- questionable
LeVert and Brogdon also out. Basically, all of their potential deadline pieces are out tonight. Time to get out the super soakers and blast them out of Chase.
Apropos of nothing important, but I like how Curry's jersey looks like it says "Dunny" in today's graphic.
I saw “oonny” :)
Other than Westbrook, name another MVP winner ever who turned into a player no one much wanted -- without injury or being really old. Underscores how bull-pucky his MVP was. Rose, Bill Walton got injured. Did Nash's bloom fade? Iverson's? Only example I got is that Bob McAdoo turned out to be McADon't on defense, but that's going in the wayback machine.
I mean, he was arguably the most explosive athletic point guard ever. Only one close was Rose and look how all over the place he’s been since his mvp. I think Russ’s decline was always going to go the way it did and I’m sure lots of us talked about it at the time. The way he played was never going to age well. Still fun to watch in his prime and laughably underrated on this site and in this fanbase due to… well, I’d call it a small minded inferiority syndrome this fanbase should have left behind years ago. But I’ve made that point here before and was told the Westbrook hate/obsession on dbhq isn’t that.
Even though it definitely is.
Russ's MVP award happened because the league felt sorry for him after KD left, and hadn't yet realized that any scrub could get triple doubles if they're the only player on the team allowed to do anything. Period. He has never, for even one minute in his career, been an MVP-caliber player, and once he's been retired for a few years, it'll be pretty much common knowledge among all sports-media that his MVP is the most undeserved in all of professional sports history, by a laughable margin. In 20 years, it will be the go-to example whenever anybody wants to say that individual awards are all about narratives and can't be used as real indicators of a player's greatness. Personally, I don't think he's even a shoe-in for the hall of fame, like so many seem to believe. If he is, it is, again, only because of the story, not the performance.
A lot of people love/loved Westbrook. Exhibit A: Bruce Jenkins of the SF Comicle.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/jenkins/article/Russell-Westbrook-Thunder-posing-serious-threat-12538122.php
I sent him an email after this column appeared with a link to a statistical analysis showing how Westbrook was padding his stats. He replied that there was no clear-cut choice for MVP, and "I don't care what the numbers say; Westbrook is not padding his stats. He's just playing with maniacal intensity every second he's on the court."
It's not at all clear why some people get to be sports reporters. Good work fighting the good fight
Absolutely spot on and extremely well said. Not only is he not a shoe-in for the hall of fame, he's not even a shoe-in for a shoe endorsement. I think the biggest impact of his career will be for people to abandon the triple-double as a useful metric of much of anything.
Y'all are totally ignoring Westbrook's fashion game. Not only did the guy average a triple double, he did it with style. We talk about Steph changing the game. How about Russ? We literally watch players arriving to work now like an episode of Project Runway. Hall of Fashion, first ballot. Enough with the disrespect! LMAO
Kuzma's oversized pink sweater shits all over Westbrook's photographer outfit.
Westbrook paved the way for that, don’t disrespect elder fashion man
Ha. Not a shoe-in for a shoe endorsement. Love it.
Eh he's a shoe in for the HOF. Now we can debate where or not he SHOULD be, but I'll be shocked if he's not first ballot.
Yeah, let's not go crazy. Russ is (was?) a really good player that isn't a great outside shooter and someone that has made some memorable mental errors. When he had players around him that were great outside shooters, he got them the ball and usually created some space for them by driving the lane. His problems usually stem from trying to win a game by himself and he just isn't that guy.
I agree that Russ was a good player ——the violence which he dunks is so entertaining. But he seemed to be a good player that put a cap on how good a team can be when he plays with other good or great players.
I always wondered how OKC would have faired if they kept Harden and traded Russ. (BKL is sort of that but Harden while still good and skilled seems so much less in shape. Incredibly, Durant is still amazing but I hope he can stay healthy)
We seem here to agree he shouldn't get in but will but I'm gonna say not first ballot. Meet here in twenty years.
January 20th, 2042… ill put it on my calendar
Exactly. I do think he probably gets in, most likely first-ballot, but that's because of the narrative. If he actually had to compete with other candidates on a performance basis, he wouldn't even be on the ballot.
MVP & DPOY. This is the last year either Steph or Dray are going to snatch one of these individual rewards. A #1 defense and a strong late season surge during a road heavy schedule could bring the awards home. But that will be it. The problem with Steph is, the better the team is, the more he sacrifices personal numbers for team winning. And by the end of the year, the perception of the team may be that the roster is stacked (despite all the missed time of players earlier in season). Steph will do whatever he has to do to win and often that results in setting screens, using his gravity and being a decoy which doesn't show up in the stat sheet. It's a similar situation for Dray. It's not Dray against the world as people are getting hip to Wiggs-Looney-GPII and others as being big contributors to the Warrior's defensive success.
Still, a 1 or 2 seed and a top rated defense after some preseason predictions had the Warriors out of the playoffs and play in altogether, may be the story line that carries the day and brings the hardware home. This won't happen again moving forward, which is why I feel like this will be the last chance for Curry-Dray to take these home.
I think Draymond's injury is a significant blow to both his DPOY case and Curry's MVP case.
EDIT: Unless he really is back in 2 weeks I guess, I'm thinking it might be closer to 4-6 weeks though.
Having had a history of lower disk issues, I don't expect Draymond to be back in 2 weeks and 4 weeks might be pretty optimistic.
Luckily I don't care much about these awards. My priorities are high quality basketball that is fun to watch, wins a lot of the time, and a deep post-season run. After that, yes, another ring. Awards? Whatever.
The only thing in Draymond's way is playing time if this injury takes time. Otherwise I haven't seen anyone in media argue against him. Steph has had a slump. Is it significant? Is it the end of the world? I'm not here for that right now. I just think the perception has changed. He needs to right that ship to hold off Giannis, Jokic, Morant, etc.
Yeah, I think it's the last 20 games. Everyone (media) loves the Warriors' story line. Man, and there are some great players balling in the league right now. So I think its going to be a finish at the wire, and whoever has the best last 15-20 game stretch should take it home.
as great as the Joker is, it chaps me pretty considerably that a lot of the same people who shat on Steph last year for the Dubs seeding are giving Jokic a pass because he is "carrying the team".
Same thing is being done for Lebron, even though his team has been consistently at around .500 all season.
Chap noted indeed
People like to do that to Steph. Get used to it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yup. Igoudala, as much as I love him, only has that FMVP because the media decided that it was LeBron's before the series even started, but couldn't justify giving it to the loser, so they gave it to Iggy, "for defending LeBron", specifically as a middle finger to Steph.
In the ongoing debate regarding the importance of true big men in the NBA, last night was pretty kind to the Big Fella argument. None of the guys listed below exactly plays I AM SHAQ MOVE OUT THE WAY style, but they all do sometimes score near the rim and protect it, to some extent. Their height matters. I'd be interested in what DNHQ thinks about a night in which: Embiid 50 points 12 rebounds in 27 minutes; Jokic 49-14-10; Giannis 33-15-7 in 31 mins; Zubac 32-10; Jaren Jackson 29-9; KAT 17-10-7; Vucevic 24-12; Markkanen (does he count?) 28-7; Adebayo 20-11-4, 5 steals; Nurkic 18-14; Gobert 23-9-4. As that TV show asks: something, nothing, or everything? [Note: examples that don't prove my point not included]
The thing with Embiid, Jokic, and Jackson is that they can take and make 3s as can Giannis to a lessor extent. As you said, they aren't just bullying people out of the way.
So here's my take: basketball is a sport where being tall automatically gives you an advantage over being short. In a league where "good" scoring came from near the basket, tall people did everything they could to get better and better at scoring from short range.
Curry comes along and did the unthinkable by proving that mathematically 3>2. Kerr revolutionized basketball with the SMDS and suddenly positionless basketball becomes all the rage. To that point only short guys shot from out there because they were too small to score inside. Suddenly, it feels like being big is a liability because none of those big players are either used to shooting from long range or guarding out that far.
At this point, enough time has passed that tall players are learning that they actually can shoot the ball from long range if they eat their Wheaties and believe in themselves enough. Also, teams are scheming better so that their tall players don't just get run off the floor on defense. Suddenly, the pendulum starts to swing back and tall people are realizing maybe they actually do have a natural advantage after all so long as they can shoot from far away and maybe dribble the ball and pass it a little bit.
Agree 98% I would only add something you didn't explicitly say but maybe meant: that as the pendulum swings back, the tall guys and their coaches are also re-realizing that being near the basket is also a really good option when you're that big. This all started with George Mikan and everyone was like "woah, if you're big, skilled and close, it's really hard to stop you," and that lasted until the small ball era, but it's still true.
After Draymond destroyed the tradition idea of (and average salaries) of NBA centers, there has been an adjustment. The idea that bigs aren't important and not needed - which we hear all the time - is just lazy. There has been a shift from the old back to basket center to big men that have a range of different skills. While centers may not dominate in the paint the way they used to, today's centers are finding a host of other ways to contribute on the court. All skills being equal, you would still rather have the bigger guy in this league. I think a true big man today is just a big who helps his team win, one way or the other, and there are a lot of them.
Don't forget Sabonis who put up an efficient triple double with only 1 turnover. Then again, he was basically playing a G-League quality team.
Also, Mo Bamba put up 32 on 15 shots (7 for 8 from three), although somehow at his size and with his wingspan did not grab a defensive rebound.
Mo Bamba: Which astonishes me more: 7-8 from three or zero rebounds?!?
Now do their teams’ records compared to the Warriors’. :-)
Bro just the research above took me 23 minutes. I'm wiped out.
Hahahah; yes but when the heralded sleepy asks, time to get back to work 😀
Both Sabonis and Turner out tonight. LeVert and Brogdon listed as questionable. That's four of their starters and the four players with the most mpg this season. Are they just throwing this game?
Should be a romp.
I'll SHAMELESSLY take it.
I'm right there with you on this one. Just give us the W and move on. Too much weirdness recently.
Totally disrespecting Chris Duarte. Indiana should be going ALL IN while Duarte is in his prime!
Sources in Indiana have indicated that the Pacers have turned down numerous offers by the Warriors to trade Steph for Duarte straight up.
Keeping all their trade assets healthy
Just because it's the cynical view doesn't mean it's not true.
Dilly! Everyone was wondering where you were!
It's a matter of speculation. We all need a bit of mystery in our lives.
I posted this on another thread, but I can't stop thinking about it. The early stage new Klay is reminding me of Mullin. Not particularly athletic or fast moving, but good size/length. Can maneuver with the ball, get to spots even though they look like they are about to get their pockets picked. Can square up anywhere on the floor and get a clean shot off. We always talked about the BBIQ of Dray, Andre, Bogut, etc. But watching Klay now, his IQ seems a bit more obvious since we are all fixated on his every move. Klay is not a GP2 in your face defender, but, like Mullin, he's always in the right spot, great team defender, and quick hands get him deflections and blocks. Few could pass like Mully, but given the make-up of current team and the future team, I could see Klay ramping up his assist totals. Not that Klay is going to start playing point forward, but I wouldn't mind seeing a little more of "Dribble-Klay". This would throw defenders into a total funk. Defenders simply won't know how to react if Klay dribbled the ball up past half court and initiated some action. Refs might even have to stop the game, go to replay, unsure of what they saw.
Love the comparison - makes me want to watch old games. However, though my memory is cloudy, I think this undervalues Klay’s oak tree defense - he’s way better in more situations and spots on the court than Mullins.
Yeah, Klay has the leg up on Mully defensively, but Mully was better offensively. But both probably have the text book shooting motion from the left or right.
Ha ha, this is pretty good. Same height too. I always loved when speedier guys would blow by Mully to the basket thinking they had any easy layup. Then Mully would reach over their back shoulder and block the shot. He did this so much I began to believe he suckered guys into it. His IQ was through the roof. Could you imagine him on this current team...
This is a great insight and dead on. When I'm watching the Dubs the last few weeks I either get fixated on watching Klay or Kuminga, whether they have the ball or not. And then rewinding to watch the other one.
Yeah, both Klay & Mully have that mid range slight fade away, could also drift sideways, shot where they have beautifully square shoulders to the basket and the best shooting form on the planet. I would love to see some side by side vids. Hey Apricot, got any old Mully footage?
There have been some interesting tidbits about the draft process of Kuminga over the past year and who was involved.
There was a mention that Kenny Atkinson was the first person in the Warrior organization to recognize Kuminga's potential to be a smallball big man (Myers mentioned it in a recent podcast with Kawakami plus there were articles about how Atkinson worked Kuminga out pre-draft and wanted to see what his rim protection abilities were like).
In yesterday's Chronicle article on Kuminga, there was a mention that Mahlalela studied Kuminga's shooting pre-draft and identified potential mechanical issues that made him optimistic about Kuminga's shot.
Makes me wonder who they'd have picked if they hadn't hired those two. Perhaps it would have still been Kuminga, but perhaps not. Although I still suspect that Giddey was their original target based on Lacob's post-draft quote plus what Giddey's dad said:
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-intended-draft-josh-giddey-no-7-pick
Also, I would love for some reporter to one day get at the truth of if Kerr really was pushing for them to draft Davion Mitchell at 7 or not lol. If so, please get that man out of the draft room.
I'm honestly surprised we basically heard zero mention of the Warriors being interested in Franz Wanger.
I'm thinking he, Moody, and Bouknight were 8/9/10 in some order.
Kerr "really wanted" Mitchell
Steph and Dray "really wanted" to sign Bradley
The Warriors "really wanted" Duarte at 14 and were crushed when he wasn't there.
I dunno, I chalk a lot of this up to straight BS. Hard to filter through it and tell what might have some truth and what's just agents pumping their client or teams blowing smoke.
If Marcus Thompson says the vets wanted Bradley, I believe him. Fair enough on the other ones.
EDIT: But that's also why I'd like someone to get to the bottom of it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kerr liked DM. I always felt Steve has this strong thread of Old NBA DNA and it still seems hard for him to let go of the idea of a traditional point guard, at least one, on the team. Kind of like a safety blanket. Mannion, Cheeze, Wannamaker. He's not entirely wrong. After Steph & Dray, you kind of want someone else on the bench who can dribble around a bit. I think we just need to get used to always having an underwhelming back-up point guard on the roster.
Was there any reporting that Kerr wanted Mitchell? Asking sincerely as this is the first I had heard of that.
I feel like there was more than this but there was this:
https://twitter.com/mcgboye/status/1420392446278705155
Interesting, thanks. If this is truly the case then I am even gladder that the Dubs go with a committee approach to drafting with input from many different perspectives considered as opposed to having a single person like the head coach, GM, or owner making those decisions unilaterally.
> I would love for some reporter to one day get at the truth of if Kerr really was pushing for them to draft Davion Mitchell at 7 or not
Kenny: Hey Steve, we have this other tiny PG available...
Agreed. I wasn't sure who the Dubs should draft, but I was sure that I didn't want DM.
How have we not managed to get a spy working for the Warriors' head office yet? Someone has really dropped the ball in our site recruiting.
I feel like Zaza would probably be the easiest guy to turn.
"It's the smart move. Tessio was always smarter." - The Godfather
Hmm... good plan. Everyone in SF keep your eyes out for a tall Georgian walking around! It's up to each of us to do our part. If you see something, say something!
Nothing easy
Game 6 Klay tonight for his 6th game back?
OOOHHHH!!! Nice
We're not talking about /that/ Game 6....
Mike Schmitz
@Mike_Schmitz
17 PTS, 8 REBS and 5 BLK for Onyeka Okongwu in a win over Minnesota. He’s now averaging 2.6 BLK in 26.5 MIN while shooting 79% over his last 5. Touch, hands and instincts. Still think he’ll be the best big from his draft class like we wrote in Oct of 2020
=============================
Sigh 😔
No sighing here — good for OO. We can’t realistically expect everyone in the draft not picked by the Warriors to suck. And Okongwu kicking ass does not affect Wiseman’s ability to kick ass when he gets healthy.
If OO were on the Suns or Grizz or some other team in our Finals path this year, I might sigh.
Understandable but I don't post any Lamelo Ball tweets because I had him nowhere near the Dubs radar (or my own wish list) last draft. Okungwu would have been the perfect big man on a trade back (which i s what I was advocating) and im happy he's been markedly improving. Now with GP2 and Kuminga playing so well, you'll see the occasional Davion Mitchell tweet but nowhere near in frequency from me. Looney playing so well but with another Wiseman setback (albeit not on his own) just can't help thinking What ifs especially since this core is not getting any younger
I'm curious what the Klay news did to the Warriors draft mindset in 2020.
Maybe Klay out is what convinced them to take the high upside guy instead of trade back or something, since they likely weren't gonna compete in 2020 without Klay.
You can help it, lol.
There were and are definitely arguments for preferring OO. He seems like a more a natural fit in Kerrball. And he’s healthy. On the flipside….
(1) At #2 you typically want to go upside/value over fit. Nearly every draft expert had Wiseman ranked above Okongwu in that regard. Athletic 7-0, 7-6 wingspanned, 250+ lb. guys with stretch big potential are a much rarer commodity than switchable 6-8 235 interior players. Check out Alc’s draft take on Wiseman to jog your memory: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJRG8chK6bU
(2) In the realm of fit: at the time of the draft the Warriors already had not one but two switchable 6-9 235 interior players in Looney and Chriss. We had no way of knowing Chriss would suffer a serious injury and end up off the roster. While not a natural Kerrball fit, Wiseman was a much better *roster fit* than OO in that he gave us something totally new that didn’t duplicate stuff we already had.
(3) Kuminga can bring a lot of what we’d get from Okongwu, and a whole lot more. (In related news, Davion Mitchell’s first 1000 NBA minutes at age 23 have been mostly poor).
(4) Wiseman could still be a stud.
(5) As CSNY sang, if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with. No use crying over spilt milk, etc.
(6) The Warriors are currently the best team in the NBA by net rating.
(7) No core, indeed no thing that exists, is “getting any younger.” But the Warriors have Kuminga 19, Moody 19, Wiseman 20, Poole 22, and Wiggins 26. Like.
That’s a baker’s half-dozen. Turn that frown upside down! :-)
He mentioned wanting us to trade down so your #1 doesn't counter that. On the other hand, it seemed like all of our trade down offers were a steaming pile of poo poo that totally undervalued the #2 pick so IMHO that wasn't actually a real option.
Great list.
Yeah, OO or Haliburton on a trade back was on my radar, but if the trade wasn't there, you take the guy you need to take. OO is a great guy and I wish him well. And he could help make the Hawks relevant again. But more than happy to let Wiseman develop and prove everyone wrong.
Haliburton on a trade back was the move. But that's a draft made while the Dubs really had no idea what their post-KD team was going to look like, so a skilled 7 footer may have seemed like a safe bet.
Westbrook is definitely getting traded soon. There's no way Vogel blasted him publicly like that and he stays
Interesting you'd call that "blasting him publicly". He was asked why he kept him out, and he didn't say anything directly critical. He was blunt. "Playing the guys that I thought were going to win the game." Which on its face is more of a compliment to the guys he played.
Due to Westbrook's perceived status and ego, yeah he will almost certainly take it as an insult. But really, zooming out why should we or anyone else? Westbrook is truly getting publicly blasted by fans and media everywhere for having his worst season and failing to fit at all with LeBron.
I think of the two Vogel is more likely to be gone. This to me is a "nothing to lose" move. He's fighting to keep his job. He needs Westbrook to make changes. He's willing to have the hard conversation with Russ if he does feel insulted.
I guess I don't see what Russ is going to do about it. Demand a trade? Sit out? I don't know what leverage he has when he's not helping them win and no one else wants him.
What I really want is for the Lakers to bend over backwards and mortgage the future EVEN MORE than they already have to dump him, and then slowly realize the cupcake schedule they had early has morphed into one of the toughest schedules in the league the rest of the way and still get stuck in the play-in or out of the playoffs altogether.
This would be the *chef's kiss* scenario, and not even unlikely.
I extremely want a guy getting paid 44 million this year and 47 million next year who can't shoot and whose stats have always been inflated and has always been confused on defensed and isn't even effective unless the whole team is built around him. (By one metric -- I forget which -- the worst offensive player in the league with a minimum certain number of minutes.) Sign me UP!!
You forgot "who believes 100% that he is the best player on your team except maybe LeBron" and "who believes in himself so much that no matter what he does on the court he shrugs it off and keeps doing the same stuff"
Given how hard it would be to actually trade Westbrook, would it be more likely AD and LeBron demand they themselves get traded so they don't waste away their finals years?
I mean, I agree that Westbrook *should* get traded, but at this point who wants him and for what? Is there a tanking team wanting to take him on for the rest of this season AND next season? (He has a player option that he'd be crazy not to take). Are there any big name free agents coming up in 2023 that a team might want to have Westbrook's salary coming off the books just in time to go after them? And in that case, do they have the salary/players to trade away that the Lakers would actually want?
I completely get the desire to trade Westbrook (we all laughed when they acquired him), but who is going to play ball? The Lakers don't even really have future draft picks to sweeten the pot. You make a big trade at this point in the season because you're either a. selling (read, tanking) and so want to give up your talent (or disgruntled players) for future value, or b. buying and want to give up roll players and future assets for players who can help you win now.
Are the Lakers buyers or sellers? They would make more sense as sellers given how disappointing this season has been. It would actually make a ton of sense to trade away LeBron and Davis for a boat load of young talent/draft picks and KEEP Westbrook, tank next season, and then chase big name FA talent in 2023. They actually pretty well positioned to do something like that. But they're the Lakers, so they don't do things like that.
They just don't have the future or current assets to be buyers. Is there value to be had in trading away Westbrook? I'm just not seeing it.
Given their current standing position, they can't possibly tank. Plus they have to put their stars on the floor to satisfy their huge TV/ad contracts. If anything they will be buyers at the trade deadline. Given what assets they have to trade, they will likely have to overpay. This will be really interesting.
What does an overpaying trade by the Lakers even look like? What assets do they even have to overpay with? They essentially have zero draft picks they can trade away, and I'm not seeing any developing players or other player assets to throw in the mix to sweeten the pot. They really went all in on Westbrook and I'm really not seeing a way out of this mess for them.
I think we're going to remember this as one of the biggest roster mismanagements in NBA history.
Also, they are in 8th place. The three teams behind them are even more screwed. They can’t possibly tank from here.
Oh, I don't know. I've seen some epic tanks.
Money,. They could overpay with cash. Send mediocre players out and lots of cash, get better players back.
You can send out like $3M. Westbrook's contract is 90M over two years. It's not moving the needle.
Is there really a limit on cash sent out?
Hmm... how much cash would it take to get rid of Westbrook... that's the real question.
If he were bought out and just available for vet minimum (dunno if that's legal), would you even want the Dubs to pick him up? I reluctantly have to say I would but it's not the clearest.
If they want to tank this season, they can easily get to the #6 spot... oh wait, they don't keep any of their own good draft picks until 2026, so tanking next season ain't worth much either.
Yeah, that also puts them in a bind. Tanking does nothing for them, but if they trade LeBron and AD for young talent they can spend the next year and a half developing those young players before making a splashy move in FA in 2023. They're definitely not getting any help in the draft any time soon!
More likely it's Vogel who is going to go, right?
Westbrook & LeBron to Philly for Simmons and Harris. LMAO!!!!!!!
I mean he's speaking the truth but I don't know. You might as well lie at that point. Messy situation
But who is gonna take Westbrook's contract?
Nobody. He stays in LA.
Only one that realistically works is Wall for Westbrook but why would Houston do that unless the Lakers can package other players for marginal draft picks
is this guy, uh, legit?
That'd be in the running for worst trade in Cavaliers history and that means something.
Still worst... Cavs are building now, what are they going to do with a Westbrook?!?!?! I get that they're down guards and playmakers, but still... there are going to be better things to do with Love, Sexton, and Osman...
Pacers stats:
Offense:
18 in points scored (108.0)
8 in points in paint!!!!!! (48.5)
11 in fastbreak points (13.0)
17 in offensive efficiency
15 in shooting % (45.7%)
28 in three point % (32.5%)
5 in two point % !!!!!!!!!!!! (54.7%)
6 in off. rebound % !!!!!!!!! (24.4%)
11 in def. rebound % (77.7%)
6 in total rebound % !!!!!!!!! (51.4%)
15 in opponent blocks (4.7)
17 in opponent steals (7.7)
14 in assists (24.1)
16 in turnovers (14.0)
Defense:
16 in points allowed (108.8)
21 in opponent points in paint (47.6)
15 in opponent fastbreak points (11.9)
22 in defensive efficiency
24 in opponent shooting % (46.5%)
23 in opponent three point % (35.9%)
16 in opponent two point % (52.3%)
2 in blocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (5.9)
24 in steals (7.1)
3 in opponent assists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (22.2)
21 in opponent turnovers (13.2)
Their single-digit ranking categories are probably a lot worse with Turner and Sabonis out.
Final All Star voting updates (fan voting closes in two days)
Bron passes Curry (by a lot), Wiggins standing strong, but AD somehow passed Dray
https://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1484224352962949120
Lots of LA fans figure they have a shot at "winning" the All Star voting. Cause that's the only thing they're going to win this year.
Warriors have 4 guys in top 11 fan votes. Feels like old times!!
Woo! Wiggins starting is becoming more of a reality?!?!?!
So does KD still pick his team or is he sitting that part out too? If the latter, then Steph + Giannis is still on the table.
I believe KD will pick the team, I believe he's done it before when he's out. And he's the leading vote getter in the East.
Darn... I expect Steph and Giannis go 1st and 2nd... though I suppose Jokic would be 3rd... so Steph + Jokic.
KD gonna pick Haren.
Sure
> Bron passes Curry (by a lot)
Predictable but disappointing nonetheless.
Plus-minus on the season
Steph Curry +423 (#1 in the league)
LeBron James -12 (#341 in the league)
How does this stand up relative to the teams' overall plus minus? Anyone?
It's an interesting question. For the Warriors:
Points scored: 4828
Points against: 4471
+357
Team has an overall average =/- of -1.5. So in 45 games that should be a total =/- of -67.5. So if I'm doing that right, the Lakers have a much worse overall =/- with him off the floor than with him on the floor.
I like how you just rolled with the "equals-minus"
Lolololol, lack of proof reading on my part, but hey, I'll allow it. It feels right.
Leave it! Haha
Lebron's teammates letting him down again. :( Clearly can't have anything to do with him!