I enjoyed watching Paschall when there wasn’t much to watch - though I think I was always of the opinion he was not going to be a long term warriors contributor. I also remember thinking they should have traded him when his stock was high to see if they could pick up something with a better chance of fitting with the team. Due to that missed opportunity I think the C grade is fair, if not generous. Sure we made a decent pick at 41. But he did not fit and we got nothing in return. As for Smailagic, wow, that guy was was not ready for the NBA.
I was still reasonably high on EP till the training camp before his second season. There had been whispers about him refining his jumper — specifically, ironing out the spazzy scissor-kick thing he did. And lo … in the first game I watch of him in preseason, the ball kicks out to him at the the 3 pt line and … the scissor-kick to end all scissor-kicks! It looked like he was doing it just to say F U to the people riding him about his funky shot.
A la Lisa Simpson breaking Ralph Wiggins’ heart, I think that was the precise moment my optimism for EP died.
Seems unlikely. Sixers can't give up Embiid or Harden, so to make salaries match, they might have to package Maxey, Thybulle, and Harris. Would the Nets really do that, even with a bunch of draft picks?
What would be awesome is if the Sixers had to give up Embiid, Harden, and Maxey, and had to take back Simmons as well.
I was like, “super young guy with great length and some intriguing skills, whose name ends in “itch”? Sign me up!”
Was much less excited once I actually got a look at him, but in terms of process, that was exactly the type of obscure, high-upside play I like to see with a #39 lottery ticket. Generally speaking, give me a Smiley Mystery Man all day over a “win now” “proven” 23 year old who looked decent in a high-profile college program going up against skinny teenagers.
(Edit: with some notable exceptions like that Draymond guy, lol).
Eric Paschall- 34 points and 13 rebounds in the first ever Golden State Warriors' victory at Chase Center San Francisco on November 4, 2019- his birthday!
Leading scorer in a franchise's first victory in a new building should be a lifetime honor, especially if it happens on his birthday ... even for a rookie who only lasted two years on the team...
The more I look at how things go, the more I feel like the second round of the draft is nearly meaningless. Undrafted players seem to have a similar success rate to second-rounders, especially late second-rounders. Second round draft picks are thrown into deals like "free bonus" swag and mostly seem to be used to save face because they're "more than nothing" on deals that are otherwise totally one-sided.
I think as we see the league develop more and more towards a farm-system-like model, second rounders should be viewed as draft picks for the minor league team. Which, I guess is kind of fun in its own way, but it's more surprising than not when a second-rounder moves the needle in a major league game—rookie or otherwise. In that regard, Paschall was a steal.
Problem was, he was only capable of moving the needle if the other team wasn't ready for him, as became clearer after he had that initial breakout. Between getting beaten off the dribble and being out of position guarding three-point shooters, Paschall's fundamentally unsound defense might have cost us more points than he scored, especially in games against "real competition". Most rookies are like that, but when his second season started looking like more of the same but worse, it became clear that he wasn't going to be part of our championship plans.
As for the Smiley pick, most stuff has been covered, but the fact that he was occupying a guaranteed roster slot in year 3 was another big opportunity cost that was arguably a worse decision than drafting him in the first place. When he couldn't be counted on to soak minutes at center even when every other Warrior over 6'7" was injured, we knew: he was absolutely a project that should have stayed in Santa Cruz.
This may be true for late second round, but I think there's still something to be said for early second round picks. Dray, Jokic are superstar examples of those. More recently, both Bell and McCaw contributed to post-season championship squads. Around the league, there are quite a few successful early 2nd round picks. Sure, they're the exception, not the rule, but I bet the hit rate is still better than UDFA.
I'm a person in the camp that we mismanaged Paschall! The kid was talented but we never properly developed him forcing him into a small ball center only role while also never putting him in a position to flourish (he was forced to be one of the main creators in the second unit!)
I actually agree with Arash, here. If there's anything we've learned over the past year, it's that coaching and developmental staff makes a huge difference. The Dubs didn't have the correct staff in place for McCaw, for Bell, or for Paschall. It's worth noting that most of the rest of the league also doesn't have this kind of staff in place, so the fact that none of the three have caught on elsewhere isn't surprising.
The proof will be in the pudding from here on out: How will Rollins develop as a mid-2nd rounder? PBJ as a very late 1st rounder(proj. early 2nd rounder)? How will the big three prospects continue to develop? How about Gui? And how will the draft picks moving forward develop?
The Dubs are in the middle of a grand coaching & development experiment. And so far, the returns are looking good. But if we are to give them credit for the experiment going well, then we should also be able to apply it to past missed opportunities. Perhaps one of McCaw, Bell, or EP could've developed into a solid rotation player, if not more, given the correct support.
"The Dubs didn't have the correct staff in place for McCaw, for Bell, or for Paschall." Maybe but neither has anyone else to date. Paschall hangs around at UT and his 3pt % was up last season but most of his numbers per 36 were down or about the same, and he didn't earn a lot of playing time. He's 25, maybe he'll get better but I wouldn't hold my breath. If Bell had that much potential some other team would have signed him and brought him to the NBA for good. Didn't happen because he's not that good. As for Smiley, he was a long shot from the start. Keeping him as long as we did is an example of why most owners' "kids" should be neither seen nor heard nor listened to.
Small ball center is a relevant position in the league. What other position would he work in? Couldn’t shoot well enough to be a wing. And no team will give him 5 post touches a game… very 2002 offense. The coaching staff didn’t fail him, hes a tweener, tweeners can’t always fit as anything.
I remember a strange comment by Kerr to the effect that 'Paschall has to figure out how he can stay on the floor,' which seemed like an odd comment for him to make. At the time, I thought, "Isn't that the job of the coaching staff to help him figure it out?" In retrospect, my guess is that they did have a plan in place and Paschall wasn't buying into it. And a few months later he was in Utah.
To be fair, he's only had one year apart from the Warriors to "catch on" and that opportunity was with the Jazz whose depth chart is filled with experienced competent bigs like Aaron Gordon/Jeff Green/JaMychal Green/Jokic/Cousins!
Despite this stiff competition, he was able to secure a bench role with the Jazz where he played in 58 games averaging 13 mpg where he was extremely productive averaging 6 ppg on 612 TS% while knocking down 37% from deep on a limited clip!
Paschall flashed an eye for passing towards the end of his rookie year and if the coaching staff had the developmental infrastructure in place they do now, I truly do believe he could have developed into a competent multi positional defender who is a solid passer who is limited from range!
There was a time where I remember people saying: "Pretend Pashcall was picked #28 instead of Poole to cope with the draft results." And it wasn't indefensible after their rookie seasons.
And then the rumors came in about Poole being the hardest worker of the offseason, and Paschall being out of shape. And all of a sudden, it's Poole with the ball who's indefensible and Paschall is being traded for cash. The NBA moves fast.
Humbly submitted under “My Worst Take”: I was furious with the FO for reaching for Poole at #28, thereby taking the massive risk that Future Superstar Paschall might not be there for us at #41.
Yeah and they traded two picks to move up the #39 to grab him. In the FO's defense, you've got to make a bold move when a generational talent is available.
I agree with the assessment of Paschall. Always seemed like a nice guy & he was fun to watch in the lost season. I'm glad he got to play with his best bud last year. But I think only being able to get a 2-way from Minnesota is pretty much the last chapter of his NBA career.
Since Smiley never had the opportunity to work with him, I am more than a bit curious if he would have developed into a useful player if Dekkie had been on the coaching staff for his time here. It was pretty much sink or swim as far as big guy development went while he was with the team.
The scary part is that Santos showed more in summer league than Smailagic did ever. And, I say this as a guy who had hopes for Smailigic.
I don't know if Santos is going to be an NBA player, but I think he might. He seems to have the BBIQ that Smailigic (among many others) never really learned.
Paschall was a good pick who might have had a different career trajectory if not for the Covid shutdowns. Feels like covid really separated the self motivated workers from others since many of the young guys had to go out of their way to figure out how to get work in. Second round picks weren’t playing with the resources that established guys had during covid.
40 years ago the NBA was full of stars who had games similar to EP's: Aguire, King, Barkley, etc. Not saying he's anywhere as good as those guys, but SFs overpowering folks in the post made you a star. Its just that a .520 % shooter from the paint with no outside game and little defense makes you inefficient on offense and terrible on defense ... and means you're searching for an NBA job.
Was watching an NBA highlight the other day ... Aguire v. B. King. Announcers were waxing poetic about Aguire, but had to concede that King was in the process of scoring 50 on him.
I don't know about those comparisons. King had a lethal midrange shot. Sir Charles was a rebounding machine. Yeah, sure, they got into the paint a lot but I don't think their games were like EP, who has been one-dimensional. They were scary. EP scares nobody.
Can't really argue these grades given the reasoning behind the picks. Still, I think the Paschall pick reflects positively on Myers and the FO for getting a bit of value so deep down in the draft. Hard to find an NBA-quality player midway through the second round.
Thought Smiley had some unfortunate injuries that stunted his development.
Even still and like other have said, being unable to keep their mouths shut about how much they liked him pre-draft and backing themselves into a corner to give up assets to draft him makes that a clear F grade.
As for Paschall, I can pinpoint the moment I jumped off the wagon, and that was preseason his 2nd year, the moment he took a 3pt shot and his jumper looked exactly the same. Also didn't help that when the Warriors had an in-house scrimmage, they had to hold Paschall out of it for conditioning reasons.
Once it was clear the coaches weren't going to be able to fix that in any reasonable time, it was clear he had to go. That one offseason where he was going to work on it, and came back with the identical shot, was the death knell for his career.
So Smiley will get one more trivia fact about him. He will be the last Warrior to ever wear #6.
The one positive of Smailagic is that I'm pretty sure the franchise learned some important lessons from that at a relatively low overall cost.
That, and when he comes back and dominates the NBA in two years, the Lacobs will be basking in the I-told-you-so glory. #lightyears
I enjoyed watching Paschall when there wasn’t much to watch - though I think I was always of the opinion he was not going to be a long term warriors contributor. I also remember thinking they should have traded him when his stock was high to see if they could pick up something with a better chance of fitting with the team. Due to that missed opportunity I think the C grade is fair, if not generous. Sure we made a decent pick at 41. But he did not fit and we got nothing in return. As for Smailagic, wow, that guy was was not ready for the NBA.
I was still reasonably high on EP till the training camp before his second season. There had been whispers about him refining his jumper — specifically, ironing out the spazzy scissor-kick thing he did. And lo … in the first game I watch of him in preseason, the ball kicks out to him at the the 3 pt line and … the scissor-kick to end all scissor-kicks! It looked like he was doing it just to say F U to the people riding him about his funky shot.
A la Lisa Simpson breaking Ralph Wiggins’ heart, I think that was the precise moment my optimism for EP died.
Yah, I wanted them to trade high, too. hindsight 20/20 I guess.
First, I've seen of KD being interested in going to Philly.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-trade-rumors-kevin-durant-sees-sixers-desired-landing-spot
Seems unlikely. Sixers can't give up Embiid or Harden, so to make salaries match, they might have to package Maxey, Thybulle, and Harris. Would the Nets really do that, even with a bunch of draft picks?
What would be awesome is if the Sixers had to give up Embiid, Harden, and Maxey, and had to take back Simmons as well.
And the Nets would have to get some but I’m around the pairing of Simmons with those ex-Sixers players too…
Make the Sixers throw Doc Rivers into the deal. The Nets could use a coach too.
I wanted Smiley to succeed so badly, admittedly mostly out of Euro solidarity and the whole "Look at how smart our org is". Alas, it was not to be.
I was like, “super young guy with great length and some intriguing skills, whose name ends in “itch”? Sign me up!”
Was much less excited once I actually got a look at him, but in terms of process, that was exactly the type of obscure, high-upside play I like to see with a #39 lottery ticket. Generally speaking, give me a Smiley Mystery Man all day over a “win now” “proven” 23 year old who looked decent in a high-profile college program going up against skinny teenagers.
(Edit: with some notable exceptions like that Draymond guy, lol).
Eric Paschall- 34 points and 13 rebounds in the first ever Golden State Warriors' victory at Chase Center San Francisco on November 4, 2019- his birthday!
Honorary Warrior for Life candidate....?
Paschall got 56.5% of the vote when polled, so he is merely an Honorary Warrior.
Leading scorer in a franchise's first victory in a new building should be a lifetime honor, especially if it happens on his birthday ... even for a rookie who only lasted two years on the team...
The more I look at how things go, the more I feel like the second round of the draft is nearly meaningless. Undrafted players seem to have a similar success rate to second-rounders, especially late second-rounders. Second round draft picks are thrown into deals like "free bonus" swag and mostly seem to be used to save face because they're "more than nothing" on deals that are otherwise totally one-sided.
I think as we see the league develop more and more towards a farm-system-like model, second rounders should be viewed as draft picks for the minor league team. Which, I guess is kind of fun in its own way, but it's more surprising than not when a second-rounder moves the needle in a major league game—rookie or otherwise. In that regard, Paschall was a steal.
Problem was, he was only capable of moving the needle if the other team wasn't ready for him, as became clearer after he had that initial breakout. Between getting beaten off the dribble and being out of position guarding three-point shooters, Paschall's fundamentally unsound defense might have cost us more points than he scored, especially in games against "real competition". Most rookies are like that, but when his second season started looking like more of the same but worse, it became clear that he wasn't going to be part of our championship plans.
As for the Smiley pick, most stuff has been covered, but the fact that he was occupying a guaranteed roster slot in year 3 was another big opportunity cost that was arguably a worse decision than drafting him in the first place. When he couldn't be counted on to soak minutes at center even when every other Warrior over 6'7" was injured, we knew: he was absolutely a project that should have stayed in Santa Cruz.
This may be true for late second round, but I think there's still something to be said for early second round picks. Dray, Jokic are superstar examples of those. More recently, both Bell and McCaw contributed to post-season championship squads. Around the league, there are quite a few successful early 2nd round picks. Sure, they're the exception, not the rule, but I bet the hit rate is still better than UDFA.
I'm a person in the camp that we mismanaged Paschall! The kid was talented but we never properly developed him forcing him into a small ball center only role while also never putting him in a position to flourish (he was forced to be one of the main creators in the second unit!)
Smallball center was his only chance to succeed imo, they did right by him he just wasn't good enough.
I actually agree with Arash, here. If there's anything we've learned over the past year, it's that coaching and developmental staff makes a huge difference. The Dubs didn't have the correct staff in place for McCaw, for Bell, or for Paschall. It's worth noting that most of the rest of the league also doesn't have this kind of staff in place, so the fact that none of the three have caught on elsewhere isn't surprising.
The proof will be in the pudding from here on out: How will Rollins develop as a mid-2nd rounder? PBJ as a very late 1st rounder(proj. early 2nd rounder)? How will the big three prospects continue to develop? How about Gui? And how will the draft picks moving forward develop?
The Dubs are in the middle of a grand coaching & development experiment. And so far, the returns are looking good. But if we are to give them credit for the experiment going well, then we should also be able to apply it to past missed opportunities. Perhaps one of McCaw, Bell, or EP could've developed into a solid rotation player, if not more, given the correct support.
"The Dubs didn't have the correct staff in place for McCaw, for Bell, or for Paschall." Maybe but neither has anyone else to date. Paschall hangs around at UT and his 3pt % was up last season but most of his numbers per 36 were down or about the same, and he didn't earn a lot of playing time. He's 25, maybe he'll get better but I wouldn't hold my breath. If Bell had that much potential some other team would have signed him and brought him to the NBA for good. Didn't happen because he's not that good. As for Smiley, he was a long shot from the start. Keeping him as long as we did is an example of why most owners' "kids" should be neither seen nor heard nor listened to.
Small ball center is a relevant position in the league. What other position would he work in? Couldn’t shoot well enough to be a wing. And no team will give him 5 post touches a game… very 2002 offense. The coaching staff didn’t fail him, hes a tweener, tweeners can’t always fit as anything.
I remember a strange comment by Kerr to the effect that 'Paschall has to figure out how he can stay on the floor,' which seemed like an odd comment for him to make. At the time, I thought, "Isn't that the job of the coaching staff to help him figure it out?" In retrospect, my guess is that they did have a plan in place and Paschall wasn't buying into it. And a few months later he was in Utah.
Well... he never properly developed. Is that on the Warriors or on Paschall? We'll never really know...
I wondered that too, but the fact EP hasn’t caught on anywhere else suggests there are limits to what we could have done
To be fair, he's only had one year apart from the Warriors to "catch on" and that opportunity was with the Jazz whose depth chart is filled with experienced competent bigs like Aaron Gordon/Jeff Green/JaMychal Green/Jokic/Cousins!
Despite this stiff competition, he was able to secure a bench role with the Jazz where he played in 58 games averaging 13 mpg where he was extremely productive averaging 6 ppg on 612 TS% while knocking down 37% from deep on a limited clip!
Paschall flashed an eye for passing towards the end of his rookie year and if the coaching staff had the developmental infrastructure in place they do now, I truly do believe he could have developed into a competent multi positional defender who is a solid passer who is limited from range!
Lots of Denver bigs on your Jazz team...
Oh lord brain fart!!
🤣😂
There was a time where I remember people saying: "Pretend Pashcall was picked #28 instead of Poole to cope with the draft results." And it wasn't indefensible after their rookie seasons.
And then the rumors came in about Poole being the hardest worker of the offseason, and Paschall being out of shape. And all of a sudden, it's Poole with the ball who's indefensible and Paschall is being traded for cash. The NBA moves fast.
I remember pretending that a lot, sadly.
Humbly submitted under “My Worst Take”: I was furious with the FO for reaching for Poole at #28, thereby taking the massive risk that Future Superstar Paschall might not be there for us at #41.
And they even took Smiley at #39 and Paschall was still there at #41.
Yeah and they traded two picks to move up the #39 to grab him. In the FO's defense, you've got to make a bold move when a generational talent is available.
🤣😂
And then Poole on his way to big money and EP possibly out of the league.
I agree with the assessment of Paschall. Always seemed like a nice guy & he was fun to watch in the lost season. I'm glad he got to play with his best bud last year. But I think only being able to get a 2-way from Minnesota is pretty much the last chapter of his NBA career.
Since Smiley never had the opportunity to work with him, I am more than a bit curious if he would have developed into a useful player if Dekkie had been on the coaching staff for his time here. It was pretty much sink or swim as far as big guy development went while he was with the team.
Rollins > Paschall?
Santos > Smiley?
No idea on the first one, yes on the second one.
We can only hope.
The scary part is that Santos showed more in summer league than Smailagic did ever. And, I say this as a guy who had hopes for Smailigic.
I don't know if Santos is going to be an NBA player, but I think he might. He seems to have the BBIQ that Smailigic (among many others) never really learned.
Imo, one advantage with Santos is he has been playing professionally since 2018.
Never underestimate the power of being born into a basketball family.
Smailagic started playing professionally in 2017.
Edit: But, yes, I think Santos being a young pro has him far ahead of most of our prospects over the last few years.
Santos also had a very good mentor in Barbosa.
had :(
FYI The most recent open thread is at https://dubnationhq.com/p/open-thread-63a
Paschall was a good pick who might have had a different career trajectory if not for the Covid shutdowns. Feels like covid really separated the self motivated workers from others since many of the young guys had to go out of their way to figure out how to get work in. Second round picks weren’t playing with the resources that established guys had during covid.
40 years ago the NBA was full of stars who had games similar to EP's: Aguire, King, Barkley, etc. Not saying he's anywhere as good as those guys, but SFs overpowering folks in the post made you a star. Its just that a .520 % shooter from the paint with no outside game and little defense makes you inefficient on offense and terrible on defense ... and means you're searching for an NBA job.
Was watching an NBA highlight the other day ... Aguire v. B. King. Announcers were waxing poetic about Aguire, but had to concede that King was in the process of scoring 50 on him.
I don't know about those comparisons. King had a lethal midrange shot. Sir Charles was a rebounding machine. Yeah, sure, they got into the paint a lot but I don't think their games were like EP, who has been one-dimensional. They were scary. EP scares nobody.
Bernard King had a truly unstoppable turnaround jumper. What a scorer
Can't really argue these grades given the reasoning behind the picks. Still, I think the Paschall pick reflects positively on Myers and the FO for getting a bit of value so deep down in the draft. Hard to find an NBA-quality player midway through the second round.
Chris Mannix
@SIChrisMannix
Bivol has told his team in recent weeks that Zurdo is the fight he wants. Bivol doesn’t like Ramirez much.
Would destroy zurdo
I'd still watch it but yeah Bivol will beat him up bad
Thought Smiley had some unfortunate injuries that stunted his development.
Even still and like other have said, being unable to keep their mouths shut about how much they liked him pre-draft and backing themselves into a corner to give up assets to draft him makes that a clear F grade.
As for Paschall, I can pinpoint the moment I jumped off the wagon, and that was preseason his 2nd year, the moment he took a 3pt shot and his jumper looked exactly the same. Also didn't help that when the Warriors had an in-house scrimmage, they had to hold Paschall out of it for conditioning reasons.
Yes! I’m adding your note about “not shutting up” to the main article.
Woo, I feel like I've made it! 😆
Don’t forget us!
I could never get past Paschall's shot .
Once it was clear the coaches weren't going to be able to fix that in any reasonable time, it was clear he had to go. That one offseason where he was going to work on it, and came back with the identical shot, was the death knell for his career.