And if you're really interested in the Eastern Conference, you might want to check out the Heat vs. Knicks and the Clippers vs. 76ers games. If Heat loses and the Sixers win tonight, both teams will be 0.5 games apart from each other.
Well whatever happens during the offseason we'll need to sign a legit backup C going into next year. I think we're entering the "caution zone" with Wise. If he's healthy cool, but we're going to have to operate as if he's never going to be available again. Can't afford to go another season with Loon by himself at the 5 spot.
The league had a chance with Looney last time around but no one (but the Dubs) thought he was worth more than $5 million/year. Guessing things will be similar this time too.
JW - hate to say I called it, but many like myself predicted that JW would not play this year. Even after Kerr predicted he’d be available for this year’s training camp, and Lacob predicted he’d play by Thanksgiving. It’s really too bad. He’s missed 3 years in a row; zero development since high school. I guess we’ll just have to hope for the best.
At the beginning of the season I would have been iffy about it but I think I've seen enough. He still has a lot to improve on but there's enough to where I'd feel comfortable building around him and JFK.
Agree. Inherent skill/talent, demonstrated progress (leaps & bounds), work ethic, confidence = all-star. In my view, he’s a 20 ppg with high efficiency guy on the offensive end right now. That makes him a top 15 2-guard right now. At age 22. So, its really not that far from where he is currently.
I made this prior to the start of the season looking at Jordan's stats in comparison to the best young SG/combo guards in the league at the same age. He matched up very well. He's improved across the board this year. So without comparing his age 22 to everyone's age 22, I think he's still in line.
What I noted at the time is that the big jump for everyone seemed to be age 23. Pretty consistent stat jump, and that was the first All Star year for Devin Booker and Donovan Mitchell. Beal and Lavine made their first All Star at age 24 and 25, but broke through into that consideration at 23. I didn't add Harden to the sheet, but he also broke out and made his first All Star at 23.
So, I think it's very possible overall, and if trends hold he could make a big jump into that type of range. I'd say more complimentary All Star guard vs franchise/MVP guy, but still a great building block.
He has the potential of being a future All-Star after Curry retires. Unless the Warriors draft a point guard with amazing handles, passing, shooting, and/or defense, Poole will be the player for the Warriors to build a team around.
If he plays PG the defense isn't an issue (and he'd actually have good size for the position), but if he's going to be on the Warriors that means playing with Curry so it might be.
Lillard/McCollum has always been tough to work with in the playoffs despite it's offensive potency...but Poole has the potential to be better than McCollum (and Curry>Lillard) so maybe the solution is just to increase the offensive potency lol.
Lillard/McCollum was always a tough combo to build around, but they also have NEVER had a good wing or forward, let alone good depth at those spots to help it. It was limited forwards like Farouq Aminu and Harkless or guards like Trent and Norm Powell. They tried with Evan Turner. They had ONE YEAR of a healthy Rodney Hood and they made it to the Western Conference Finals. He's the only thing resembling a two way forward, and he's Rodney Hood.
Dray, Kuminga, Klay, Moody, Wiggins. Literally all these guys are better then anyone the Portland team ever had.
I'm not saying Curry/Poole can't work considering how good Poole could be (although I'm not yet sold on it either), but I would note that the Blazers had a pretty easy draw the year they got to the WCF and then got swept by the Warriors. The three best teams imo were all on the same side of the bracket, Warriors, Rockets, and Jazz.
Speaks to the idea of slotting Wiggins/Klay into their proper roles by having sufficient shot creation around them and not having them be shot creators.
Would have liked if the tweeter included minutes though.
Man, two man units are a tough way to frame anything meaningful for me as far as proof of what the offense needs or not. There are two other guys that Steph has a higher Net with, and neither of them would be considered traditional shot creators:
Mar 25, 2022·edited Mar 25, 2022Liked by punk basketball
Without even looking I believe the highest one is with GP2, right?
I agree there are multiple ways to skin a cat (apparently), but I was speaking in terms of ways to make Klay (or Wiggins) most effective offensively.
I'm still down for the Curry/GP2/Draymond combo giving teams hell on defense and then burying them in transition, no extra shot creator needed. 121 offensive rating, 87 defensive rating in 140 minutes. And I really want to see what that trio can do with Iguodala thrown into the mix as well.
Ultimately this is a defense first roster so the path toward winning is probably more focused on that end (with Curry making the offense good enough).
I think they're a glass cannon. They're talented on offense and can be so good that they can beat the Suns and the Grizzlies, but they can also look so bad that they can lose to the Pistons and the Magic. Warriors must've faced both versions of the team back in November. I think they went up 19 points in the 2nd quarter before the Warriors made a furious rally and routed them in the 3rd quarter.
what was interesting to me to look at in the spreadsheet re line ups, is that the line ups with Klay and also with Moody and/or Kuminga are the two variables who drop the net rating down. Klay with the rest of the OG does ok
That makes sense intuitively; Klay knows how to play with the OGs and vice versa based on a very long history of playing together. Klay and the rookies have barely played together and have very little cohesion as a result.
Poole, Wiggs & Kuminga should be playing all non-Curry minutes. Throw in a combo of Big (Loon, Belly, OPJ) and Guard (Klay-DLee-GP2-Moody). Put the ball in Poole's hands and let them play a little more traditionally. The SYSTEM is Curry-Draymond. You can't force the system on a group that doesn't have the System players. Poole can replicate Curry, but no-one else can replicate Draymond. So why force it? The Dubs can go far if Kerr will allow his freaky self to come out and let his non-core players play to their strengths in the non-Curry/Dray combo minutes.
Mostly with you. But Klay doesn't fit with Poole and Wiggs at this stage unless Steph and Dray are there being floor generals. That is not a slander to his greatness but rather reality that he is working through the needed post injury adjustments. His minutes should pretty much match Curry's for remainder of this season including Playoffs. Next year is different story of course. For one Klay will able to get to work on what's missing because of injury. And secondly, I believe Wiggs will be traded in his last season - not because he is not a good player for us but rather that Dubs may not want to loose that bird rights space in cap in case he walks in free agency. Expiring contracts are desired by teams in certain situations.
I think there may be some hints that is the case, and of course it makes intuitive sense when you think about their inexperience (or, in Wiggs' case, inexperience with a real effective system)
I was wondering about the many sometimes very different players who came and left from those championship teams who somehow fitted (often seamlessly, but with obvious exceptions like Oubre and KD eventually) into the system. What makes JK, Wiggs,Poole different somehow? Is Moody then more in the mold of those previous players?
Thinking on it more, I would separate Wiggs from JK and Poole in this discussion. I think Wiggs is cut out to be a secondary or tertiary piece, and that could work with the core. I think with Poole and JK, they are both very much wanting to be "The Man" and frankly, they are very good at that role. They are not necessarily selfish players, but the role they seem most natural with is less of a system cog, perhaps. I dunno, just spiffballing.
I know right? He played to start the season, then missed 11 or so. Came back to play off and on for the next 10-15 games, then missed 8, played one game, followed by missing the last 19.
So may be better to say he played once in the las 28 games? (Oops, like Abaddon said)
I can’t remember if Klay had the back to the basket turn around jumper in his bag of tricks before the injury? I love that shot from him, it looks smooth, seems to get him in rythym, and could be a guaranteed bucket like with SDot.
At this point, it really feels like more of a Jimmy Butler problem than anything else. I don't remember anything at Chicago, but it seems like every stop after he's had drama with teammates and coaches.
Lol! Love it how BBB guys weave in Manscaped advertisement. Hopefully Eric doesn't see this and get ideas on generating much deserved additional revenue through such means 😃.
I'm gonna be honest, watching him slowly amble off the podium in that boot on Wednesday was disheartening, especially with only three weeks left before playoffs.
Trying to integrate a possible future hall-of-famer who has the worst net rating on the team (so far) with the goal of winning a championship is proving to be a huge hurdle. If Kerr pulls this off, automatic Hall Of Fame for him!
Kerr's an automatic for the Hall of Fame no matter what. 5 rings as a player, and 3 as a coach plus a couple of Western Conference championships? Who else even comes close in the modern era?
In George Leonard's fine book, "Mastery," Leonard describes the process of physical skill improvement as "reaching a plateau", followed by an attempt to integrate new skills, leading to a drop-off in performance, followed by a significant improvement in performance leading to another plateau. Repeat.
Klay is in the drop-off phase - integrating penetration and dribbling into his catch and shoot repertoire. By the times playoffs arrive, one of two things will have happened. Klay will have fully integrated the new skills and the mental game that accompanies it, making him a more efficient overall player; or he will be encouraged to return to catch-and-shoot Klay, also making him more efficient. In either case, fans will be happy, but if the first scenario plays out, we will be happier.
Defensively, Klay just needs game time. We've seen many instances of Klay's skill since his return - staying in front or chasing and blocking shots. This is more a case of him reacquiring dormant skills and adjusting to game speed. He'll be ready by the playoffs.
>> "the process of physical skill improvement as "reaching a plateau", followed by an attempt to integrate new skills, leading to a drop-off in performance, followed by a significant improvement in performance leading to another plateau."
Thanks for sharing that. I've never really thought about it in exactly that way before. Makes a whole lot of sense, and so many non-physical skill applications to this as well.
I highly recommend Leonard's short book. I read it a long time ago and hope I didn't mis-represent too badly. Covers a lot more ground than the physical Still out there in many formats on Amazon and others,
Games to pay attention for tonight:
-Hawks vs. Warriors (duh!)
-Hornets vs. Jazz
-Timberwolves vs. Mavericks
And if you're really interested in the Eastern Conference, you might want to check out the Heat vs. Knicks and the Clippers vs. 76ers games. If Heat loses and the Sixers win tonight, both teams will be 0.5 games apart from each other.
Go Hornets and Minnesota!
Well whatever happens during the offseason we'll need to sign a legit backup C going into next year. I think we're entering the "caution zone" with Wise. If he's healthy cool, but we're going to have to operate as if he's never going to be available again. Can't afford to go another season with Loon by himself at the 5 spot.
It’s gonna be hard to tell FAs a good story…
The league had a chance with Looney last time around but no one (but the Dubs) thought he was worth more than $5 million/year. Guessing things will be similar this time too.
Not that Wiseman was ever going to get actual playoff minutes but now it's official. Let's just get healthy and do this.
JW - hate to say I called it, but many like myself predicted that JW would not play this year. Even after Kerr predicted he’d be available for this year’s training camp, and Lacob predicted he’d play by Thanksgiving. It’s really too bad. He’s missed 3 years in a row; zero development since high school. I guess we’ll just have to hope for the best.
Is JTA going to get any more non-garbage time minutes?
Doubt it. Too many. Better players ahead of him.
Agree or disagree: Poole is a future All-Star and is a player you can build a team around.
Discuss.
Going by the last 10 games or so, he's an all-star now!
At the beginning of the season I would have been iffy about it but I think I've seen enough. He still has a lot to improve on but there's enough to where I'd feel comfortable building around him and JFK.
Agree. Inherent skill/talent, demonstrated progress (leaps & bounds), work ethic, confidence = all-star. In my view, he’s a 20 ppg with high efficiency guy on the offensive end right now. That makes him a top 15 2-guard right now. At age 22. So, its really not that far from where he is currently.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HSqzeXGBjHKiJ2wy97Zc1A0zfxzvT4wNPEFDYbLbLFo/edit#gid=0
I made this prior to the start of the season looking at Jordan's stats in comparison to the best young SG/combo guards in the league at the same age. He matched up very well. He's improved across the board this year. So without comparing his age 22 to everyone's age 22, I think he's still in line.
What I noted at the time is that the big jump for everyone seemed to be age 23. Pretty consistent stat jump, and that was the first All Star year for Devin Booker and Donovan Mitchell. Beal and Lavine made their first All Star at age 24 and 25, but broke through into that consideration at 23. I didn't add Harden to the sheet, but he also broke out and made his first All Star at 23.
So, I think it's very possible overall, and if trends hold he could make a big jump into that type of range. I'd say more complimentary All Star guard vs franchise/MVP guy, but still a great building block.
Agree.
Yes
He has the potential of being a future All-Star after Curry retires. Unless the Warriors draft a point guard with amazing handles, passing, shooting, and/or defense, Poole will be the player for the Warriors to build a team around.
If he plays PG the defense isn't an issue (and he'd actually have good size for the position), but if he's going to be on the Warriors that means playing with Curry so it might be.
Lillard/McCollum has always been tough to work with in the playoffs despite it's offensive potency...but Poole has the potential to be better than McCollum (and Curry>Lillard) so maybe the solution is just to increase the offensive potency lol.
Lillard/McCollum was always a tough combo to build around, but they also have NEVER had a good wing or forward, let alone good depth at those spots to help it. It was limited forwards like Farouq Aminu and Harkless or guards like Trent and Norm Powell. They tried with Evan Turner. They had ONE YEAR of a healthy Rodney Hood and they made it to the Western Conference Finals. He's the only thing resembling a two way forward, and he's Rodney Hood.
Dray, Kuminga, Klay, Moody, Wiggins. Literally all these guys are better then anyone the Portland team ever had.
I'm not saying Curry/Poole can't work considering how good Poole could be (although I'm not yet sold on it either), but I would note that the Blazers had a pretty easy draw the year they got to the WCF and then got swept by the Warriors. The three best teams imo were all on the same side of the bracket, Warriors, Rockets, and Jazz.
Fortunately all star selection doesn’t often take into account defense!! So I’m with you, his offense can get him there
Regarding lineups:
https://twitter.com/samesfandiari/status/1507422036745883655
Speaks to the idea of slotting Wiggins/Klay into their proper roles by having sufficient shot creation around them and not having them be shot creators.
Would have liked if the tweeter included minutes though.
Man, two man units are a tough way to frame anything meaningful for me as far as proof of what the offense needs or not. There are two other guys that Steph has a higher Net with, and neither of them would be considered traditional shot creators:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612744&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Curry
Without even looking I believe the highest one is with GP2, right?
I agree there are multiple ways to skin a cat (apparently), but I was speaking in terms of ways to make Klay (or Wiggins) most effective offensively.
I'm still down for the Curry/GP2/Draymond combo giving teams hell on defense and then burying them in transition, no extra shot creator needed. 121 offensive rating, 87 defensive rating in 140 minutes. And I really want to see what that trio can do with Iguodala thrown into the mix as well.
Ultimately this is a defense first roster so the path toward winning is probably more focused on that end (with Curry making the offense good enough).
Hawks stats:
Offense:
8 in points scored!!!!!! (112.8)
19 in points in paint (45.8)
30 in fastbreak points (9.3)
3 in offensive efficiency!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10 in shooting % !! (46.7%)
3 in three point % !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (37.0%)
18 in two point % (52.8%)
18 in off. rebound % (22.8%)
15 in def. rebound % (76.9%)
12 in total rebound % (50.3%)
12 in opponent blocks (4.6)
7 in opponent steals!!!!!!!! (7.2)
14 in assists (24.4)
1 in turnovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (12.0)
Defense:
22 in points allowed (112.2)
21 in opponent points in paint (48.2)
18 in opponent fastbreak points (12.3)
27 in defensive efficiency
25 in opponent shooting % (47.1%)
25 in opponent three point % (36.4%)
23 in opponent two point % (54.1%)
23 in blocks (4.4)
24 in steals (7.0)
24 in opponent assists (25.6)
27 in opponent turnovers (12.7)
I think they're a glass cannon. They're talented on offense and can be so good that they can beat the Suns and the Grizzlies, but they can also look so bad that they can lose to the Pistons and the Magic. Warriors must've faced both versions of the team back in November. I think they went up 19 points in the 2nd quarter before the Warriors made a furious rally and routed them in the 3rd quarter.
what was interesting to me to look at in the spreadsheet re line ups, is that the line ups with Klay and also with Moody and/or Kuminga are the two variables who drop the net rating down. Klay with the rest of the OG does ok
That makes sense intuitively; Klay knows how to play with the OGs and vice versa based on a very long history of playing together. Klay and the rookies have barely played together and have very little cohesion as a result.
here's another angle on it. Parsing by 3-man units for Klay (same 20 minute minimum):
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&TeamID=1610612744&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*thompson:MIN*GE*20&sort=MIN&dir=1
You're totally right, if you sort by minutes, the first ones that are negative all have Kuminga or Moody
Poole, Wiggs & Kuminga should be playing all non-Curry minutes. Throw in a combo of Big (Loon, Belly, OPJ) and Guard (Klay-DLee-GP2-Moody). Put the ball in Poole's hands and let them play a little more traditionally. The SYSTEM is Curry-Draymond. You can't force the system on a group that doesn't have the System players. Poole can replicate Curry, but no-one else can replicate Draymond. So why force it? The Dubs can go far if Kerr will allow his freaky self to come out and let his non-core players play to their strengths in the non-Curry/Dray combo minutes.
Mostly with you. But Klay doesn't fit with Poole and Wiggs at this stage unless Steph and Dray are there being floor generals. That is not a slander to his greatness but rather reality that he is working through the needed post injury adjustments. His minutes should pretty much match Curry's for remainder of this season including Playoffs. Next year is different story of course. For one Klay will able to get to work on what's missing because of injury. And secondly, I believe Wiggs will be traded in his last season - not because he is not a good player for us but rather that Dubs may not want to loose that bird rights space in cap in case he walks in free agency. Expiring contracts are desired by teams in certain situations.
Yes. Does this mean that Poole, JK, Wiggs. Are somehow less well fitted to Kerr’s system than the array of players from the championship years?
I think there may be some hints that is the case, and of course it makes intuitive sense when you think about their inexperience (or, in Wiggs' case, inexperience with a real effective system)
I was wondering about the many sometimes very different players who came and left from those championship teams who somehow fitted (often seamlessly, but with obvious exceptions like Oubre and KD eventually) into the system. What makes JK, Wiggs,Poole different somehow? Is Moody then more in the mold of those previous players?
Thinking on it more, I would separate Wiggs from JK and Poole in this discussion. I think Wiggs is cut out to be a secondary or tertiary piece, and that could work with the core. I think with Poole and JK, they are both very much wanting to be "The Man" and frankly, they are very good at that role. They are not necessarily selfish players, but the role they seem most natural with is less of a system cog, perhaps. I dunno, just spiffballing.
Makes sense.
I think you may be on to something
The most surprising thing about this article is that Iguodala has *only* missed the last 19 games. It feels like much, much more.
When did we pick up Iguodala????
I know right? He played to start the season, then missed 11 or so. Came back to play off and on for the next 10-15 games, then missed 8, played one game, followed by missing the last 19.
So may be better to say he played once in the las 28 games? (Oops, like Abaddon said)
It's 27 games, with one game (where he played only 5:46) in the middle.
He's going to fight Jimmy Butler?
We can only hope.
I can’t remember if Klay had the back to the basket turn around jumper in his bag of tricks before the injury? I love that shot from him, it looks smooth, seems to get him in rythym, and could be a guaranteed bucket like with SDot.
He did but he didnt take it as much I think
Why Jimmy Butler Tried To Fight HIS OWN COACH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnPOZOmLKI
Don't miss the Bemused and slightly smirky Jordan Poole cameo in the middle.
This might be my favorite BBall Breakdown ever. Coach Nick has gotten tiresome at times, but he's sharp in this one.
At this point, it really feels like more of a Jimmy Butler problem than anything else. I don't remember anything at Chicago, but it seems like every stop after he's had drama with teammates and coaches.
Wow, that was intense. Do you think Jimmy Butler mentioned anything about robots, or not so much?
Yeah I had a thought about how this actually worse than the (in-game) Draymond and KD drama.
Lol! Love it how BBB guys weave in Manscaped advertisement. Hopefully Eric doesn't see this and get ideas on generating much deserved additional revenue through such means 😃.
I feel hirstute after watching that video.
When your smell better, you behave better, and “win a lot more games”, lol
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1507111264866091024
Encouraging sight. Not in a boot or anything and looks like he's ready to get some work in on the court?
YES!
I'm gonna be honest, watching him slowly amble off the podium in that boot on Wednesday was disheartening, especially with only three weeks left before playoffs.
Seems unlikely Steph would be shooting at Chase in the middle of March Madness. He attended the Duke game last night.
Trying to integrate a possible future hall-of-famer who has the worst net rating on the team (so far) with the goal of winning a championship is proving to be a huge hurdle. If Kerr pulls this off, automatic Hall Of Fame for him!
Kerr's an automatic for the Hall of Fame no matter what. 5 rings as a player, and 3 as a coach plus a couple of Western Conference championships? Who else even comes close in the modern era?
What, like it's hard?
In George Leonard's fine book, "Mastery," Leonard describes the process of physical skill improvement as "reaching a plateau", followed by an attempt to integrate new skills, leading to a drop-off in performance, followed by a significant improvement in performance leading to another plateau. Repeat.
Klay is in the drop-off phase - integrating penetration and dribbling into his catch and shoot repertoire. By the times playoffs arrive, one of two things will have happened. Klay will have fully integrated the new skills and the mental game that accompanies it, making him a more efficient overall player; or he will be encouraged to return to catch-and-shoot Klay, also making him more efficient. In either case, fans will be happy, but if the first scenario plays out, we will be happier.
Defensively, Klay just needs game time. We've seen many instances of Klay's skill since his return - staying in front or chasing and blocking shots. This is more a case of him reacquiring dormant skills and adjusting to game speed. He'll be ready by the playoffs.
>> "the process of physical skill improvement as "reaching a plateau", followed by an attempt to integrate new skills, leading to a drop-off in performance, followed by a significant improvement in performance leading to another plateau."
Thanks for sharing that. I've never really thought about it in exactly that way before. Makes a whole lot of sense, and so many non-physical skill applications to this as well.
I highly recommend Leonard's short book. I read it a long time ago and hope I didn't mis-represent too badly. Covers a lot more ground than the physical Still out there in many formats on Amazon and others,
Absolutely agree.