I rise in humility and with open mind with a nagging question. How good is GPII *really*? We saw what he did in the championship run. Then last year doesn't really count. His defense and steals are amazing. But on offense ... he confuses. He's a guard who really doesn't create offense, doesn't handle the ball, doesn't shoot unless open, doesn't pressure a defense. It's a liability to have a non-shooter like Draymond out there; it becomes quite the liability if you have say Draymond Looney and GPII out there.
In what situations or how many minutes would you play him given the guard roster?
- Elite defensive disrupter who can take toughest on-ball assignment with strength to guard 1-4
- Very capable spot up 3P% (38% 3P over the last two seasons)
- REALLY good cutter who takes advantage of spacing and seems for easy dunks
- Surprisingly efficient (.679 and .701 TS% over the past two seasons)
- Crazy athleticism
- Really good rebounding guard (7.1 per 36 in ‘21-22)
I think the 17-18 mpg he played two seasons ago with GSW is about right. Since he hasn’t played starter minutes, be sure to look at this per 36 numbers when trying measure his impact.)
GP2 plays in all the situations. He creates stocks that create great offensive transition opportunities. Over his career, he's got a steal percentage of 3.4%, the league leader the last 3 years has been below 3.4%.
My hope is that Moody improves enough this year in GPIIs areas of strength that we can reduce GPII's usage.
Not to say GPII is a bad player ... he's a really great change-of-pace player to have on the bench. But, he's overpaid, and if he's playing 10 minutes every game, I'd say we're in trouble.
A reporter interviewing Fox tried to bait him into it. He said the banked in three was more important because it gave the Warriors momentum but didn't really go any further.
Fox, by the way, is so awesome. Really happy for the Kings they have such a likeable budding superstar to build around.
Sac's whole team is pretty easy to root for. I know Sleepy has an issue with Sabonis, but compared to Whiteside, Cousins, and other centers of Kings yore, he's great.
The Dub broadcasters seemed to be arguing that yes he had been out of bounds with the ball, but then he rolled back a smidge back in bounds just in time to throw the ball of what's his name; so therefore it's an inbounds play.
But WAIT. If you are out of bounds with the ball, the play is over. I've known that for fifty years but they spellbound me.
Setting the tone for the regular season. The ugly came early and the good came late. There'll be plenty to learn from this tape. Steve wants a similar start to 2021-2022.
Zach Lowe has us #2 in his League Pass watchability rankings, trailing only the Milwaukee Bucks:
"Paul is blending into the Warriors' go-go mayhem while also picking spots to impose his methodical efficiency -- a care factor the reckless Warriors needed. In the flow, he's adapting -- whipping hit-aheads, running the wings, setting random pindowns and flares, touch-passing to Curry in stride on those classic relocation daggers. (Curry is in midseason form, pointing to Paul in thanks while his shot is still in midair. Is there a more exciting moment of earned hubris?)"
At the end, Kelenna said “best…preseason…ever” and I don’t think it was hyperbole.
My wife and I were on our feet cheering.
After the game, I got a string of texts from my son: “What a fucking game! That was so exciting for preseason wow. I was so bummed when we missed both free throws but you can never doubt curry. TJD, CP3, and JK all looking great too. I’m stoked for the upcoming seasons!”
Steph put up **13 points in the last 1:57** on 4-4 fg, 2-2 FT, 3-3 from 3, including the game winner off the bounce from 30 with Fox in his grill. Night night.
The sad part is, in the mind of Skip (or at least in his clown-like character he plays on TV), this probably actually will be used as "evidence" of his un-clutchness, because he did something good in a meaningless game, which by some sort of weird formed logic will be used to say he is actually less clutch than if he had done nothing at all.
Kudos to TJD. He plays effortlessly and with intelligence. Very underrated. Chris Paul should not be starting. We're too small and fall behind too easily. He really helped the bench get going later in the game and that should be his main role. What a difference his ball control makes. It's exactly what we need with all these new guys.
Klay seems lost somehow. Sure he can still hit those beautiful 3's but he fades away too easily. Too into his own head.
Kuminga was turnover machine that scores. Horrible +/- this game. I hope he focuses on defense and ball control as well as getting his own shot. He's coming into his own.
Cojo is small. Plays with energy but the sample size is too small for me to make anything of. I thought his poise was good considering it's his first appearance of the season on a new team.
Moody?............Don't know what Kerr is really thinking. We need his size and points. He's getting no love from the coaches.
Saric is a gift from the gods. He's going to make a difference.
If not for Steph, we are in big trouble. Sure, Paul could play PG and start, but that is where it begins and ends. No one on our team can take over a game like he can. He's really a magician that can turn losses into wins but I don't want to have to rely on this superpower. We need more energy, more ball control, and bigger bodies banging away. We need to get our rotations established lickety split. We have a difficult start to the regular season and we may not have Dray ready.
During the game, a couple of us commented that Cojo looked bigger than we remembered. He certainly looks taller than CP (low bar I know) and stockier than Steph with a bigger wingspan.
Just finished the replay. holy shit. what a preseason game. The Dubs just beat the kings in a preseason grudge match without Dray and Loon. Quick hits:
Steph taketh away and Steph giveth. he made some poor drives early in the game, driving into double teams and giving the ball up, but man oh man. Wardell. What magic.
The turnovers. OMG. What a shit show. That they won in spite of that is amazing.
Saric. he played much better D than I expected. I remember him stonewalling Fox in the paint at least once. And then he traffic coned McGee that time.
JK - he was involved in too many turnovers - but it still felt like he still scored efficiently in spite of this being one of his worst efficiency nights.
GP2 - Fucking wonder, man.
Overall D - They did this without Dray and Loon, defensive stalwarts. Wiggs/JK/GP2 perimeter showed so much promise. They made some mistakes, but a lot of them were communication mistakes - which will get ironed out. Plus, with some better interior help, it'll feel even better.
TJD- speaking of interiors. Wow. Waht a game by the rook - screens, scoring under teh basket. Lobs, lobs, lobs, and great passing and court awareness, too.
Cory: color me super unimpressed. I really hope he really needs just a warmup game, because Podz' recent play was ligth years better than what I saw from CJ tonight. he really didn't seem to make things happen much. Just passed it off to JK and let him work.
Warriors have a deep and diverse bench. If I were Kerr, I'd strongly consider occassionaly starting Chris Paul, JK, Saric, Wiggins, and GP2. It's psychological warfare. If the opposing team can't get a lead off these "starters", then Curry and his "bench" will close the deal and make this a blowout. Innovation requires thinking outside the box. In other words, outside the basketball cultural restraints. For example, the egotism of "starting" vs playing off the bench. Such constructs can and do restrain your thoughts, limiting you to fewer options. Coach Kerr knows that much and succeeded with Iguodala playing off the bench successfully against one of the greatest players, Lebron, at the most demanding level, the NBA Finals. Your ideas don't have to end there, flip the script and see how the other teams handles it. Many benefits to switching lineups: 1) relatively more rest time for the vets 2) players get an appreciation from a new perspective 3) bench players can get a boost to their confidence and playing time 4) You create a psychological edge 5) keeps the game fresh for everyone, mentally and physically. Mr Lacob or Mr Kerr, my background is in behavioral science from SJSU. If you need more help, just let me know. For my home team, I will work cheap, maybe just a game with court side seats. And you're welcome.
To save me time scrolling thru the game thread, how was Sleepy's reaction to Davion scoring 4 threes in a row? Can we confirm that he is still breathing?
In only 7 regular season or playoff games in the entire history of the NBA has any victorious team had 22 or more turnovers while the opponent had 13 or fewer and 15 or fewer free throw attempts while allowing the opponent 24 or more: https://stathead.com/tiny/buqbA
So the "winning" part of tonight's game was rather unexpected.
Is it me or did Saric look tentative to shoot? It looked to me like he was wide open a couple times and wasn't looking for his shot. And then the one time he decided to pull, Javale got out to him in time to block it. But otherwise he was looking to pass/hand off.
I wonder if he's trying too hard to play the Warriors style. Yes he's a good passer, but it would help the spacing if he at least looking to shoot; that way, opponents will have to respect the threat of his shot. Hm, sounds familiar... but if he is a 36+% 3PT shooter he should be taking them.
Podz has been the same way. I think the "always look for Steph and Klay" mantra temporarily slows the trigger for team players like Saric and Podz when they come to GS. But history generally indicates they'll get it back once they quit thinking about it. Also, they may not be used to the gravity-driven open looks they get at GS. Because NBA windows are so small, a lot of taking those open shots is recognizing they are going to be open before they are.
Yes, I remember at least two or three times he had open shots from a good spot and passed or handed off instead. One of those times he passed into traffic deep in the paint, resulting in a turnover.
I saw that too, I bucket in the "the team is still gelling" category. There were a few turnovers that were caused by the team being out of sync too... and guys cutting into driving lanes... I think they'll get it settled. But, man... he cannot be taking 75 seconds to line up a wide open shot and getting it blocked and giving up a leak out dunk.
New thread https://dubnationhq.com/p/warriors-own-kings-again-on-currys
I rise in humility and with open mind with a nagging question. How good is GPII *really*? We saw what he did in the championship run. Then last year doesn't really count. His defense and steals are amazing. But on offense ... he confuses. He's a guard who really doesn't create offense, doesn't handle the ball, doesn't shoot unless open, doesn't pressure a defense. It's a liability to have a non-shooter like Draymond out there; it becomes quite the liability if you have say Draymond Looney and GPII out there.
In what situations or how many minutes would you play him given the guard roster?
Elite cutter, elite finisher, moves the ball well, great screener, can run a 4 on 3, gets offensive rebounds, etc. And then defensively he's unreal.
He's very good imo.
He’s hardly a franchise player, but he’s legit:
- Elite defensive disrupter who can take toughest on-ball assignment with strength to guard 1-4
- Very capable spot up 3P% (38% 3P over the last two seasons)
- REALLY good cutter who takes advantage of spacing and seems for easy dunks
- Surprisingly efficient (.679 and .701 TS% over the past two seasons)
- Crazy athleticism
- Really good rebounding guard (7.1 per 36 in ‘21-22)
I think the 17-18 mpg he played two seasons ago with GSW is about right. Since he hasn’t played starter minutes, be sure to look at this per 36 numbers when trying measure his impact.)
>- Elite defensive disrupter who can take toughest on-ball assignment with strength to guard 1-4
And anger the MVP with some justified "watch your head" taunting... he's got enough juice to surprise 5s too.
GP2 plays in all the situations. He creates stocks that create great offensive transition opportunities. Over his career, he's got a steal percentage of 3.4%, the league leader the last 3 years has been below 3.4%.
I'm with you ... I think he's a situational sub.
My hope is that Moody improves enough this year in GPIIs areas of strength that we can reduce GPII's usage.
Not to say GPII is a bad player ... he's a really great change-of-pace player to have on the bench. But, he's overpaid, and if he's playing 10 minutes every game, I'd say we're in trouble.
Either team with lead or we have lead to protect?
Twould love to have heard what was said in the Kings locker room after the game.
I bet: "we got beat by a bull**** banked in three" figured pretty heavily into it.
A reporter interviewing Fox tried to bait him into it. He said the banked in three was more important because it gave the Warriors momentum but didn't really go any further.
Fox, by the way, is so awesome. Really happy for the Kings they have such a likeable budding superstar to build around.
He is. Nice dude, great game.
Sac's whole team is pretty easy to root for. I know Sleepy has an issue with Sabonis, but compared to Whiteside, Cousins, and other centers of Kings yore, he's great.
Plus they've got McGee and he was balling out last night, at least on a few plays.
Or: "We are NOT facing that guy AGAIN in the playoffs this year I mean it. Tank the last five games if we have to."
He wasn't.
And butt.
Ahh, remember Butt Pad Curry. Those were great times.
The Dub broadcasters seemed to be arguing that yes he had been out of bounds with the ball, but then he rolled back a smidge back in bounds just in time to throw the ball of what's his name; so therefore it's an inbounds play.
But WAIT. If you are out of bounds with the ball, the play is over. I've known that for fifty years but they spellbound me.
He receives the ball just as his elbow rises off the ground. Or at least that is what I chose to believe.
Anyone notice the 4th quarter without Jordan Poole seem more deliberate? We still had 22 turnovers but far fewer critical, momentum destroying ones.
He didn’t mention Poole by name, but I liked the term “less reckless” as Lowe put it in the link Abaddon shared below.
Setting the tone for the regular season. The ugly came early and the good came late. There'll be plenty to learn from this tape. Steve wants a similar start to 2021-2022.
18-2? That would be OK. As long as one of the losses isn't the Lakers.
Steve Kerr, Jonathan Kuminga, Dario Saric x TJD React To Warriors/Kings | October 18, 2023 | FreeDawkins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZVYdsSt3CU
Final 3:02 MUST-SEE ENDING Kings vs Warriors! | October 18, 2023 | NBA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUGFAz0JQgA
Zach Lowe has us #2 in his League Pass watchability rankings, trailing only the Milwaukee Bucks:
"Paul is blending into the Warriors' go-go mayhem while also picking spots to impose his methodical efficiency -- a care factor the reckless Warriors needed. In the flow, he's adapting -- whipping hit-aheads, running the wings, setting random pindowns and flares, touch-passing to Curry in stride on those classic relocation daggers. (Curry is in midseason form, pointing to Paul in thanks while his shot is still in midair. Is there a more exciting moment of earned hubris?)"
More at the link: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38661818/nba-league-pass-rankings-top-10-watch-teams-2023-24
Almost 700 comments for a pre-season game? LOL, we truly are fanatic's.
Did not get to see it but have it taped. Sounds like it was fun.
At the end, Kelenna said “best…preseason…ever” and I don’t think it was hyperbole.
My wife and I were on our feet cheering.
After the game, I got a string of texts from my son: “What a fucking game! That was so exciting for preseason wow. I was so bummed when we missed both free throws but you can never doubt curry. TJD, CP3, and JK all looking great too. I’m stoked for the upcoming seasons!”
Steph put up **13 points in the last 1:57** on 4-4 fg, 2-2 FT, 3-3 from 3, including the game winner off the bounce from 30 with Fox in his grill. Night night.
For anyone who's forgetting, Steph likes to play these Kings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfEWZUjIqPM
*Not clutch
The sad part is, in the mind of Skip (or at least in his clown-like character he plays on TV), this probably actually will be used as "evidence" of his un-clutchness, because he did something good in a meaningless game, which by some sort of weird formed logic will be used to say he is actually less clutch than if he had done nothing at all.
Kudos to TJD. He plays effortlessly and with intelligence. Very underrated. Chris Paul should not be starting. We're too small and fall behind too easily. He really helped the bench get going later in the game and that should be his main role. What a difference his ball control makes. It's exactly what we need with all these new guys.
Klay seems lost somehow. Sure he can still hit those beautiful 3's but he fades away too easily. Too into his own head.
Kuminga was turnover machine that scores. Horrible +/- this game. I hope he focuses on defense and ball control as well as getting his own shot. He's coming into his own.
Cojo is small. Plays with energy but the sample size is too small for me to make anything of. I thought his poise was good considering it's his first appearance of the season on a new team.
Moody?............Don't know what Kerr is really thinking. We need his size and points. He's getting no love from the coaches.
Saric is a gift from the gods. He's going to make a difference.
If not for Steph, we are in big trouble. Sure, Paul could play PG and start, but that is where it begins and ends. No one on our team can take over a game like he can. He's really a magician that can turn losses into wins but I don't want to have to rely on this superpower. We need more energy, more ball control, and bigger bodies banging away. We need to get our rotations established lickety split. We have a difficult start to the regular season and we may not have Dray ready.
During the game, a couple of us commented that Cojo looked bigger than we remembered. He certainly looks taller than CP (low bar I know) and stockier than Steph with a bigger wingspan.
Agreed. He has a different body type, stockier.
Just finished the replay. holy shit. what a preseason game. The Dubs just beat the kings in a preseason grudge match without Dray and Loon. Quick hits:
Steph taketh away and Steph giveth. he made some poor drives early in the game, driving into double teams and giving the ball up, but man oh man. Wardell. What magic.
The turnovers. OMG. What a shit show. That they won in spite of that is amazing.
Saric. he played much better D than I expected. I remember him stonewalling Fox in the paint at least once. And then he traffic coned McGee that time.
JK - he was involved in too many turnovers - but it still felt like he still scored efficiently in spite of this being one of his worst efficiency nights.
GP2 - Fucking wonder, man.
Overall D - They did this without Dray and Loon, defensive stalwarts. Wiggs/JK/GP2 perimeter showed so much promise. They made some mistakes, but a lot of them were communication mistakes - which will get ironed out. Plus, with some better interior help, it'll feel even better.
TJD- speaking of interiors. Wow. Waht a game by the rook - screens, scoring under teh basket. Lobs, lobs, lobs, and great passing and court awareness, too.
Cory: color me super unimpressed. I really hope he really needs just a warmup game, because Podz' recent play was ligth years better than what I saw from CJ tonight. he really didn't seem to make things happen much. Just passed it off to JK and let him work.
Warriors have a deep and diverse bench. If I were Kerr, I'd strongly consider occassionaly starting Chris Paul, JK, Saric, Wiggins, and GP2. It's psychological warfare. If the opposing team can't get a lead off these "starters", then Curry and his "bench" will close the deal and make this a blowout. Innovation requires thinking outside the box. In other words, outside the basketball cultural restraints. For example, the egotism of "starting" vs playing off the bench. Such constructs can and do restrain your thoughts, limiting you to fewer options. Coach Kerr knows that much and succeeded with Iguodala playing off the bench successfully against one of the greatest players, Lebron, at the most demanding level, the NBA Finals. Your ideas don't have to end there, flip the script and see how the other teams handles it. Many benefits to switching lineups: 1) relatively more rest time for the vets 2) players get an appreciation from a new perspective 3) bench players can get a boost to their confidence and playing time 4) You create a psychological edge 5) keeps the game fresh for everyone, mentally and physically. Mr Lacob or Mr Kerr, my background is in behavioral science from SJSU. If you need more help, just let me know. For my home team, I will work cheap, maybe just a game with court side seats. And you're welcome.
I couldn't agree more.
Watched the game late.
To save me time scrolling thru the game thread, how was Sleepy's reaction to Davion scoring 4 threes in a row? Can we confirm that he is still breathing?
If I recall correctly, he said something about Davion going after Klay’s record. I expect he was breathing fine once he stopped laughing.
Mitchell wanted this one BAD, which made Sleepy want to deprive him of it BAD. :-)
The Mitchell-Sleepy back and forth will be fun to watch all season. It’s got the makings of a great rivalry.
Not really fair. I’m 5’-9.5” so he’s got a full half-inch on me.
Plus he’s a couple years younger. 😊
It's all BBIQ at this level :)
In only 7 regular season or playoff games in the entire history of the NBA has any victorious team had 22 or more turnovers while the opponent had 13 or fewer and 15 or fewer free throw attempts while allowing the opponent 24 or more: https://stathead.com/tiny/buqbA
So the "winning" part of tonight's game was rather unexpected.
Thanks to Mr. Curry.
Is it me or did Saric look tentative to shoot? It looked to me like he was wide open a couple times and wasn't looking for his shot. And then the one time he decided to pull, Javale got out to him in time to block it. But otherwise he was looking to pass/hand off.
I wonder if he's trying too hard to play the Warriors style. Yes he's a good passer, but it would help the spacing if he at least looking to shoot; that way, opponents will have to respect the threat of his shot. Hm, sounds familiar... but if he is a 36+% 3PT shooter he should be taking them.
Podz has been the same way. I think the "always look for Steph and Klay" mantra temporarily slows the trigger for team players like Saric and Podz when they come to GS. But history generally indicates they'll get it back once they quit thinking about it. Also, they may not be used to the gravity-driven open looks they get at GS. Because NBA windows are so small, a lot of taking those open shots is recognizing they are going to be open before they are.
He attempted five threes (made one). Yes there were maybe three others he really should have taken. As others write, early days.
Yes, I remember at least two or three times he had open shots from a good spot and passed or handed off instead. One of those times he passed into traffic deep in the paint, resulting in a turnover.
I saw that too, I bucket in the "the team is still gelling" category. There were a few turnovers that were caused by the team being out of sync too... and guys cutting into driving lanes... I think they'll get it settled. But, man... he cannot be taking 75 seconds to line up a wide open shot and getting it blocked and giving up a leak out dunk.