Overall, TJD was OK. AD used him like a rented mule (TJD picked up four fouls in ~5 minutes), but he had a couple of good plays at the end that ended up being the game winners.
Obviously, what happened against AD is expected at this point.
Dray's return... So AS says DG may play in the last preseason game next Friday or, if not ready, possibly the opener.
Even if Dray comes off the bench while returning from injury, I expect Kerr to insert him into the starting lineup again once he's fully ready to play 33+ minutes. That means that Kerr also needs to get CP comfortable running the second unit. CP will take minutes from BP, unfortuntely, as will CJ when he returns.
However, CP running with the second unit over the next two preseason games and even the last one (if Dray returns, he'll be on minutes restriction certainly) means that there will be more minutes available with the starters.
Who will that be? JK seems to be the obvious choice at this point. Saric will also get more time there, I bet. However, I'm also hoping that we get to see a good dose of both TJD and DUG over the next two games, specifically, as rotations get altered. TJD got minutes with the starters in place of Dray last night. Will DUG also get a chance? And as JK/Saric get more minutes with the starting unit, will that free up second unit big man minutes for TJD and DUG?
Thesis: the best three players on the team right now are Steph Curry, Andrew Wiggins, and Jonathan Kuminga. Happy to hear rebuttals arguments and personal attacks. OK not those.
Am I the only one hoping that our core 3 will only play like 30 minutes a game, and CP will play 20-25? We've got a lot of guys who can play and need minutes on the floor. Seems like getting some of those young guys some experience and battle-tested could pay off down the line, and keeping the vets fresh for a deep playoff push is crucial. It's a win-win...
I think we are all on board with >30mpg for the older main players, including Kerr. I suspect it was the same last year, but the bench performance and overall record was so bad, that they had to lean on the starters more than they would have wanted. Hope that’s better this year.
I am fully on board with limiting the vet minutes this season. I'm still not sure where enough minutes are going to come from for Podz, TJD, CoJo, though.
In 2022, GP2 missed most of the preseason and was runner-up to Avery Bradley for the 14th roster spot heading into the last preseason game. Then he made such a big impact in that game (or was it last two games), that the FO decided to roster him over the AB in spite of the vets preferring Bradley.
As the 14th man, he got sparing minutes at the start of the season, but in the fall, he forced himself into the rotation as Kerr and the rest of the team couldn't help but notice the enormous impact he had over a handful of games he was allowed to play 10-15 key minutes. He brought energy, playmaking, and intensity, forcing deflections, nabbing steals, and slamming down back-cuts and the occasional corner 3.
Shortly thereafter, Kerr confirmed that GP2 was indeed going to be a part of the reg season rotation moving forward, and then he became a key cog in the postseason with a team-high +/-(iirc) in the postseason.
Prediction:
Podz will become this year's GP2. He will be out of the rotation at the beginning of the season, but force Kerr's hand in the late fall, cementing a spot in the regular season rotation over the winter. CoJo will be relegated to Ty Jerome duties as Podz becomes both a bench sparkplug and playmaker for the second unit. Then, he'll continue to be a spark in the postseason, coming in for key bench minutes here and there to provide dynamism, energy, and intensity during the playoff run culminating in his first postseason 'chip.
One other note on JK's rebounds - last week the announcers made a comment about Vanderbuilt that Kuminga should focus on blocking him out to let someone else get the rebound. At least once yesterday, I saw JK make sure to put a body on someone so the paint was basically clear, and BP swooped in to grab the rebound. So, its possible he helped impact the team rebounding (43-41 advantage over the bigger Lakers) more than his box score stat reflects.
There’s also a lot of variance with rebounding in single-game samples (since rebounds by their nature are pretty random). In the enormous 51 minute sample of this preseason, JK is averaging 7.9 rebounds per 36 minutes, which I would take all day from him in the regular season. (By way of comparison, LeBron averaged 6.0 rebounds per 36 in his age 21 season.
I just shared this downthread, but I was curious on this point as well – tallied the rebounds during JK's minutes, and for my count they were a +1 (Dubs 24/LAL 23).
SFChron article on DG, sounds like he is making good progress. Official update on Monday.
However, Green appeared to be moving around fluidly in his full-speed workout. He did not show any signs of pain and his jump shot looked sharp. This was a noncontact workout conducted primarily in a half-court setting, and the Warriors training staff will be cautious with him as he regains his strength.
Does Chris Paul belong on the starting rotation of the Warriors? Hell, no. I'll be the first to say it. Will we have to wait until Draymond comes back to end this fantasy? Dare I say we need another player with size to start alongside Looney? Kuminga? Saric? Gay? TJD? Saric would be my first choice then we could see what Paul can do for our younger players. Our core doesn't need him.
I feel like Kerr is just starting him with Dray out based on who cp is and how much money he's making. Similar to Poole last season getting all the starts whenever someone was out even if he's playing terribly. I really hope this isn't the case throughout the season
Honestly, the defensive breakdowns last night went a lot further than simply being small and having Paul in the starting lineup. The rotations were a freaking mess for most of the game. Tons of open shooters.
Our starting lineup with cp is simply too old and small to play consistent defense. Puts too much pressure on Wiggs and Loon to cover our holes while fighting for rebounds
Oct 14, 2023·edited Oct 14, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot
Saric got some minutes with the starters albeit in Looney's place (felt like he needed a bit of a rest night). I thought it looked viable, at least in the preseason. I want to say TJD also mixed in. Not quite ready to stand toe to toe with AD, but all in all looked promising for a rookie.
side note: Saric having a connection with Ron Adams was neat. Didn't know until reading the EA's transcript. Cool that Ron has these random connections all over and lowkey seems to get a lot of respect from the league's vets
But I bet what really catches people off guard is having BP get a floater over you flat footed. He got one over AD that was hilarious. So jerky and sudden.
It looks like he flips them up under-handed. I'm so used to Steph's push shot floaters that BP's look like they should be "swipeable" ala Andre's swipe-down.
OK. he doesn't. It just looks that way. He seems to have this weird flail with his left arm after the shot that makes it look that way. I wonder if coaches will get him to tighten up the extra arm movement on the floater.
I really like his unorthodoxiness. Might be a factor in minimising any athletic limitations by messing up players timing. But from my eye test, he's a baller and looks like he belongs out there under the bright lights. Definitely strong scrappy DDV vibes.
What I haven't seen yet from Kerr is his rotation mixes using starters and bench players. He is using two different squads essentially. The mastery of a coach is exhibited in rotations, IMO, how players x,y,&z, fit with a,b,c, etc. Saric was the only one I noticed that got time with the starters. Not much, though. Our bench is full of smaller players with energy, smart and gritty like Podz, Robinson, GP2. These guys add a different tone to the game. Gay also had a defensive presence. He's big. Throw in Saric or TJD, it's a fun mix to watch. I want to see what they are like playing with our starters, or some of them.
Klay got some time with the reserves. I think Kerr's just seeing what he's got right now, plus Draymond and Cojo are out. I would guess you'll start to see more normal Kerr rotations the last two games.
I mean once CP is with the bench unit, you really only need to rotate in one starter to make it an exceptional unit, and Klay makes the most sense. With Saric, JK, MM, and CP, they can all spread the floor, but none of them is the bullseye shooting threat that Klay is and won't warp defenses. Klay will so his off-ball actions will open up lanes for all four of the others to drive.
He seems like one of those guys who looks better with better players around him. He does so many little things that contribute to winning, but if the other guys on the floor can't hit the shot or get surprised by a pass, it's all for naught. When he's out there with guys who know how to play, there's synergy that makes those plays looks smart.
Yeah, but Kuminga only had three rebounds even if it's only a preseason game so trade him. Or if you keep him for God's sake don't play him in the playoffs, he has nothing to contribute.
I mean, three rebounds for a guy of Kuminga's size is objectively insufficient. You can't demand big playoff minutes if you get outrebounded by Chris Paul, especially not on a team that lives and dies by its rebounding.
i think it's important to ask why the rebounds are low relative to size and minutes on the floor. If it's just not trying, then it's definitely insufficient. But I think a lot of them are being on the perimeter when the shot goes up or boxed out by AD. I didn't do a breakdown this game in particular, but in the past I've noticed that Kuminga will do that thing of hounding a perimeter player as a defender and then be too far from the basket. I agree overall he should rebound more, but I think it's worth it to look at what the reasons are.
Steph routinely out rebounds Loon. It happens. CP3 and Podz are also good rebounders for their size. JK was going after the rebounds, just didn’t record too many. Notably, with 50s left and his team down 1, he contested an offensive rebound between two Lakers and tipped the ball over to TJD who made the game winning go ahead put back.JK didn’t record a stat there tho. Then he calmly swished two game sealing FTs
Interesting revelation about load management. Considering its coming from an NBA official, I'm not sure how legit it is.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10093056-nba-official-load-management-is-no-longer-backed-by-scientific-data
It’s self interested bs.
I didn't get to watch the Warriors game due to recovering from a medical situation, how did TJD do?
Hope your situation is under control 👍🏼
Sorry you were having medical issues.
Overall, TJD was OK. AD used him like a rented mule (TJD picked up four fouls in ~5 minutes), but he had a couple of good plays at the end that ended up being the game winners.
Obviously, what happened against AD is expected at this point.
Dray's return... So AS says DG may play in the last preseason game next Friday or, if not ready, possibly the opener.
Even if Dray comes off the bench while returning from injury, I expect Kerr to insert him into the starting lineup again once he's fully ready to play 33+ minutes. That means that Kerr also needs to get CP comfortable running the second unit. CP will take minutes from BP, unfortuntely, as will CJ when he returns.
However, CP running with the second unit over the next two preseason games and even the last one (if Dray returns, he'll be on minutes restriction certainly) means that there will be more minutes available with the starters.
Who will that be? JK seems to be the obvious choice at this point. Saric will also get more time there, I bet. However, I'm also hoping that we get to see a good dose of both TJD and DUG over the next two games, specifically, as rotations get altered. TJD got minutes with the starters in place of Dray last night. Will DUG also get a chance? And as JK/Saric get more minutes with the starting unit, will that free up second unit big man minutes for TJD and DUG?
Thesis: the best three players on the team right now are Steph Curry, Andrew Wiggins, and Jonathan Kuminga. Happy to hear rebuttals arguments and personal attacks. OK not those.
Rebuttal: Draymond has been the second best player on the Warriors for awhile and that will not change this season.
Somehow I keep forgetting Wiggs is on the team and playing! He's just so steady and under the radar.
Am I the only one hoping that our core 3 will only play like 30 minutes a game, and CP will play 20-25? We've got a lot of guys who can play and need minutes on the floor. Seems like getting some of those young guys some experience and battle-tested could pay off down the line, and keeping the vets fresh for a deep playoff push is crucial. It's a win-win...
I think we are all on board with >30mpg for the older main players, including Kerr. I suspect it was the same last year, but the bench performance and overall record was so bad, that they had to lean on the starters more than they would have wanted. Hope that’s better this year.
I haven't studied math since mammoths roamed the earth but don't you mean <30 mpg?
*and the two-ways
I think you're not factoring in the starters' egos. No way Steph thinks he's ready to drop down to 30 minutes a game.
JB made this point a long, long time ago. Players want to play. They resist load management.
I am fully on board with limiting the vet minutes this season. I'm still not sure where enough minutes are going to come from for Podz, TJD, CoJo, though.
I envision Sea Dubs minutes and then injury fill in for Podz and TJD.
History:
In 2022, GP2 missed most of the preseason and was runner-up to Avery Bradley for the 14th roster spot heading into the last preseason game. Then he made such a big impact in that game (or was it last two games), that the FO decided to roster him over the AB in spite of the vets preferring Bradley.
As the 14th man, he got sparing minutes at the start of the season, but in the fall, he forced himself into the rotation as Kerr and the rest of the team couldn't help but notice the enormous impact he had over a handful of games he was allowed to play 10-15 key minutes. He brought energy, playmaking, and intensity, forcing deflections, nabbing steals, and slamming down back-cuts and the occasional corner 3.
Shortly thereafter, Kerr confirmed that GP2 was indeed going to be a part of the reg season rotation moving forward, and then he became a key cog in the postseason with a team-high +/-(iirc) in the postseason.
Prediction:
Podz will become this year's GP2. He will be out of the rotation at the beginning of the season, but force Kerr's hand in the late fall, cementing a spot in the regular season rotation over the winter. CoJo will be relegated to Ty Jerome duties as Podz becomes both a bench sparkplug and playmaker for the second unit. Then, he'll continue to be a spark in the postseason, coming in for key bench minutes here and there to provide dynamism, energy, and intensity during the playoff run culminating in his first postseason 'chip.
I don’t disagree with your prediction, but think CoJo and Podz are competing for Ty Jerome duties, AKA 3rd-string PG.
From Slater's game summary:
Jackson-Davis is a lefty, but has shown an ability to finish around the rim well with both hands.
This is new, right? I thought the scouting report was that he never ever used his right hand, or am I thinking about some other prospect?
I have the same recollection. And this is a great development. I think he may contribute more this year than some expect, and that is good news.
There's a cornucopia of storylines for optimists heading into this season.
One other note on JK's rebounds - last week the announcers made a comment about Vanderbuilt that Kuminga should focus on blocking him out to let someone else get the rebound. At least once yesterday, I saw JK make sure to put a body on someone so the paint was basically clear, and BP swooped in to grab the rebound. So, its possible he helped impact the team rebounding (43-41 advantage over the bigger Lakers) more than his box score stat reflects.
There’s also a lot of variance with rebounding in single-game samples (since rebounds by their nature are pretty random). In the enormous 51 minute sample of this preseason, JK is averaging 7.9 rebounds per 36 minutes, which I would take all day from him in the regular season. (By way of comparison, LeBron averaged 6.0 rebounds per 36 in his age 21 season.
I just shared this downthread, but I was curious on this point as well – tallied the rebounds during JK's minutes, and for my count they were a +1 (Dubs 24/LAL 23).
Ivan in the house!!!
Just fulfilling my comments quota so that Apricot doesn't kick me out of the Slack.
Apricot with the motivational tactics!
I dub thee resident hype man
WAAAAARRRRRIIIIOOOOORRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
Excuse me, I should have said "Pre-season scoring leader JK"
And EFF leader!
Happy Eclipse Day, people. Peak should hit in minutes.
Cloudy here, but it is darker than normal. You can follow some live footage from NASA at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlY79zjud-Q
SFChron article on DG, sounds like he is making good progress. Official update on Monday.
However, Green appeared to be moving around fluidly in his full-speed workout. He did not show any signs of pain and his jump shot looked sharp. This was a noncontact workout conducted primarily in a half-court setting, and the Warriors training staff will be cautious with him as he regains his strength.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/warriors/article/warriors-draymond-green-breaks-injury-chris-18425011.php
> his jump shot looked sharp
Must be a pure exaggerated optimism fluff piece…
Hey, CJ just making sure he has insider access during the season!
I'm dying to see Draymond guard Wembanyama
Won't they just get physical with him? He's talented but stick-thin...
Teams are going to have to find the right way to defend the guy for sure.
This only works for a year or two, unless it's vs. Wiseman.
I thought Wise had zero fouls in 20 or so min on Thurs, so he's getting better
In year 4, and I’m doubtful it’ll continue into the reg season
Not entirely fair. He spent a year and half on the shelf, essentially.
Does Chris Paul belong on the starting rotation of the Warriors? Hell, no. I'll be the first to say it. Will we have to wait until Draymond comes back to end this fantasy? Dare I say we need another player with size to start alongside Looney? Kuminga? Saric? Gay? TJD? Saric would be my first choice then we could see what Paul can do for our younger players. Our core doesn't need him.
I feel like Kerr is just starting him with Dray out based on who cp is and how much money he's making. Similar to Poole last season getting all the starts whenever someone was out even if he's playing terribly. I really hope this isn't the case throughout the season
Honestly, the defensive breakdowns last night went a lot further than simply being small and having Paul in the starting lineup. The rotations were a freaking mess for most of the game. Tons of open shooters.
Our starting lineup with cp is simply too old and small to play consistent defense. Puts too much pressure on Wiggs and Loon to cover our holes while fighting for rebounds
Saric got some minutes with the starters albeit in Looney's place (felt like he needed a bit of a rest night). I thought it looked viable, at least in the preseason. I want to say TJD also mixed in. Not quite ready to stand toe to toe with AD, but all in all looked promising for a rookie.
side note: Saric having a connection with Ron Adams was neat. Didn't know until reading the EA's transcript. Cool that Ron has these random connections all over and lowkey seems to get a lot of respect from the league's vets
Paul starting is about three things:
1. Seeing if it can work.
2. If not, convincing Paul that he belongs running the second unit.
3. Doing right by Paul, to keep him in a good frame of mind.
Basically, it's about equally experimentation, and player management (Paul's ego).
> I'll be the first to say it.
Hmm. I could be wrong, but I feel like at least one other person in the world has pondered the concept of CP3 coming off the bench?
Jesus?
The Christ, is that your question? Is He a Warrior fan?
Jesus Aguilar?
Well, He’s clearly not a Timberwolves fan.
Kuminga’s speed still catches me off guard.
But I bet what really catches people off guard is having BP get a floater over you flat footed. He got one over AD that was hilarious. So jerky and sudden.
It looks like he flips them up under-handed. I'm so used to Steph's push shot floaters that BP's look like they should be "swipeable" ala Andre's swipe-down.
OK. he doesn't. It just looks that way. He seems to have this weird flail with his left arm after the shot that makes it look that way. I wonder if coaches will get him to tighten up the extra arm movement on the floater.
I really like his unorthodoxiness. Might be a factor in minimising any athletic limitations by messing up players timing. But from my eye test, he's a baller and looks like he belongs out there under the bright lights. Definitely strong scrappy DDV vibes.
What I haven't seen yet from Kerr is his rotation mixes using starters and bench players. He is using two different squads essentially. The mastery of a coach is exhibited in rotations, IMO, how players x,y,&z, fit with a,b,c, etc. Saric was the only one I noticed that got time with the starters. Not much, though. Our bench is full of smaller players with energy, smart and gritty like Podz, Robinson, GP2. These guys add a different tone to the game. Gay also had a defensive presence. He's big. Throw in Saric or TJD, it's a fun mix to watch. I want to see what they are like playing with our starters, or some of them.
Klay got some time with the reserves. I think Kerr's just seeing what he's got right now, plus Draymond and Cojo are out. I would guess you'll start to see more normal Kerr rotations the last two games.
I expect that's true.
I mean once CP is with the bench unit, you really only need to rotate in one starter to make it an exceptional unit, and Klay makes the most sense. With Saric, JK, MM, and CP, they can all spread the floor, but none of them is the bullseye shooting threat that Klay is and won't warp defenses. Klay will so his off-ball actions will open up lanes for all four of the others to drive.
Yeah ... Klay should feast with the second unit, TBH. There are enough other threats on the floor, and he'll have lesser defenders on him.
I know it’s just the preseason but they’re going to have to clean up on fouls (27) and turnovers (21).
But do they really *have* to?
Warriors basketball is BACK, baby!
This read like a Magic Johnson tweet 😜
https://twitter.com/sprdsheet/status/1713047117395382412
BP has looked so, so much better in Preseason than in Summer League...
He seems like one of those guys who looks better with better players around him. He does so many little things that contribute to winning, but if the other guys on the floor can't hit the shot or get surprised by a pass, it's all for naught. When he's out there with guys who know how to play, there's synergy that makes those plays looks smart.
Yeah, but Kuminga only had three rebounds even if it's only a preseason game so trade him. Or if you keep him for God's sake don't play him in the playoffs, he has nothing to contribute.
Also he missed 3 of his 12 shots what a jerk.
Pre-Season Kuming is a thing?
I mean, three rebounds for a guy of Kuminga's size is objectively insufficient. You can't demand big playoff minutes if you get outrebounded by Chris Paul, especially not on a team that lives and dies by its rebounding.
i think it's important to ask why the rebounds are low relative to size and minutes on the floor. If it's just not trying, then it's definitely insufficient. But I think a lot of them are being on the perimeter when the shot goes up or boxed out by AD. I didn't do a breakdown this game in particular, but in the past I've noticed that Kuminga will do that thing of hounding a perimeter player as a defender and then be too far from the basket. I agree overall he should rebound more, but I think it's worth it to look at what the reasons are.
For whatever it's worth, for my count, the Warriors out-rebounded the Lakers in Kuminga's minutes (24 vs 23) in which he also was a +12.
I mean, -1 reb advantage in 27 minutes vs. LOLakers is fantastic when compared to last years' performances.
Good knowedge
Steph routinely out rebounds Loon. It happens. CP3 and Podz are also good rebounders for their size. JK was going after the rebounds, just didn’t record too many. Notably, with 50s left and his team down 1, he contested an offensive rebound between two Lakers and tipped the ball over to TJD who made the game winning go ahead put back.JK didn’t record a stat there tho. Then he calmly swished two game sealing FTs
Actually, I thought tips like that where it hits the glass or rim and ends up in someone else's hands count as rebounds.
Me too, but this one didn’t count for that… probably a subjective assessment from the scorer about whether it was a deliberate tip?
Holy shit. Victor needs to only get like 6" off the floor in order to dunk it.
It's like if Steph had a 14 inch growth spurt over the summer.
Yeah - I saw him catch a lob on the way down and he still dunked it, no problem at all.