With GP2 out there is absolutely no more excuses to not play Moody big minutes. My heart breaks for Gary but honestly this a golden opportunity for Moody and JK to make the most of their minutes. He will be back for the playoff boost. The script has been written.
Remember, Kerr wanted to take a sabbatical from the NBA but decided to stay because of the veterans (Steph, Klay, Green). That there explains a lot why he continues to play them even if their performance is sub-par.
“If they were not here I could see myself taking a sabbatical” and “I wanted to take a sabbatical, but am staying because of them” are very different statements imo.
he did not get a break over the summer with the world cup squad - so he is likely really burnt out - and I feel for him - but it is costing this team games. I wish there was a way to do an "in-season" sabbatical, something like when mike brown took over for a week when Kerr was not well.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Bummed for Gary, the team and the fans. As I said in the game thread before he got hurt and while he was out there Paytoning his ass off, he’s just so much fun to watch. I just love how he stayed with it and finally made it to the big-time and carved out a niche.
At least it isn’t an Achilles, which my wife thought it was when it happened. (She’s blown both of hers out.) Get well soon, GP2.
On the coaching moves down the stretch, my ranking for frustration:
1. Not preparing the team to handle the press at the end. This is the exact same press GSW had done against SAC at the end of every quarter. This one is a straight inexcusable F.
2. That challenge on the Curry foul. I thought they checked plays on the bench on video replay before challenging? This cost them a crucial timeout that they had clearly been hoarding since they declined to challenge some bad calls earlier. I give this a D-.
3. Subbing out Moody. Made me mad, but it's so easy to second guess this kind of thing. Since the vets he bet on all made big turnovers down the stretch, this gets a C-.
Hopefully they get it together soon. Last season they were able to lean on the subpar play/records of the other teams in the West to ensure they made the playoffs. Probably not the case this season.
I love Kerr but this was some of the worst coaching I've seen in a long time. Coaching 101 type stuff. Never thought I would see it at the NBA level. (1) Taking out your hottest player in the middle of his hot streak while everyone else is struggling, (2) challenging an obvious foul thereby leaving you with 0 timeouts for late game strategy, (3) knowing the kings will press, double team, harass Curry in the backcourt, but decline to insert any other ball handlers in the game, leaving Curry on an island by himself to bring the ball up the court. And the most frustrating part is I'm not sure Kerr even realizes his mistakes.. He didn't seem to acknowledge them in the press conference....so does that mean in hindsight, he would he make the same coaching decisions again? Its a shame the media is too timid to confront him about it. Warriors will almost certainly be in this situation again.
Understandable overreactions abound - that was an epic collapse with many contributors. After a night's sleep, I'm mostly worried about the injuries and I'm choosing to focus on the positives:
Wiggins coming back to himself - I tend to forget how good he is, and how often he bails out broken possessions with a variety of in-control, old-fashioned twos. He's got that Tim Duncan/KD bored killer vibe behind his maple-sweet smile.
Moody - Yes, I am deeply offended that Kerr violated the "feed-the-hot-hand" rule that is the foundation of "Strength in Numbers" BUT I'm also really happy that Moody keeps turning his game up, from mistake-free but quiet, to heady defensive opportunist, to all that plus deadly sniper.
Draymond's back - OK, he did lose his temper again and lost the game with his butterfingers, but first he broke up a three on one - with this mind! Defense like no one else's.
I agree with you about Moody and Draymond. And the fact that the Dubs were able to build a double digit lead against a great team. However, the coaching was so bad. Its hard to get over it. And it seems like the fact that Kerr benched Moody means that he has no trust or faith in him to play meaningful/important minutes. Its crazy. Moody was an afterthought. I don't think Kerr ever intended on playing him until injuries called for it.
Bro anyone who has watched the Kings play in the last 1.5 years knows that team is great, don’t kid yourself.
Were the Bucks exposed when they were down 26 against the Blazers2 days ago? How about the heat when the Knicks came back down 21 three days ago? The Suns when we nearly came back down 23 last week? The Pelicans when the Nuggets came back down 20?
These big comebacks are commonplace, and yet it’s only when it happens to the warriors that the narrative is “The Warriors are cooked” or “The Warriors got exposed”. It’s an overreaction.
I'm just going to assume you are trolling. The Showtime Lakers were a GREAT team. The Heatles were a GREAT team. The Jordan Bulls were a GREAT team. The Curry Warriors were (are?) a GREAT team. . . . The Kings are a good team. GOOD team. That's quite an accomplishment. But they are nowhere near a great team. A great team does not get bounced out of Round 1 in a league where half or more of the teams make the playoffs. The only way for a team to be called GREAT during the season but prior to the playoffs is to break one of the major records like total wins or consecutive wins. But if they lost in Round 1, most people would re-designate them a good team. That said, the Kings aren't knocking on the door to win 40 straight games, or win more than 70, so they are a good team. If they win 3 straight NBA titles, or make 5 Finals in a row, then maybe they will be retrospectively labelled a great team. Now, they are a good team.
There’s a reason the phrase is “all-time great” not just “great”. Think its pretty well established that the word “great” just means better than “good” man.
From worst to best:
“They’re an ok team”
“They’re a good team”
“They’re a great team”
“They’re an excellent team”
“They’re an amazing team”
“They’re an all time great team”
Am I off base here? If I go out to dinner and say “The food was great!” do you think I had one of the best meals of my life? Or just that the food was really good?
I mean, I feel him, but it requires fully buying into the narrative that the Moody benching was a vote for Klay and the OGs over common sense and the hot hand. Yea, it does look that way from outside the locker room - so I'm fine with his sober take. But it's still a hangover day for all of us, and Kerr just told everyone that he was still messing around with line-ups.
> I mean, I feel him, but it requires fully buying into the narrative that the Moody benching was a vote for Klay and the OGs over common sense and the hot hand.
The narrative. I can't help but chuckle. We used to call that "what happened." Now that we are in post-Truth America, basic facts can be dismissed by calling it "a narrative." So, let me ask: What are the alternative explanations? How plausible are they? Keep in mind, we have Kerr's exact words as evidence. When asked why he benched Moses in the midst of Moody's hot 4th quarter, Kerr said:
"Moses was awesome tonight. Um, you know, we, we needed to get Wigs on the floor, uh, for defense against Fox. Uh, and we, uh, decided to, to, to go with with Klay and our, our vets, you know. We thought about, um, you know, keeping him [Moses] out there but, um, you know we we made the move that we made."
NOTE: Moses Moody is a third year vet. But I guess he is still not one of "our vets." By Steve Kerr's own words.
Right, Curry could have just called timeout when the Kings trapped him near the end of the game if they still had one, and the Warriors would have won.
It didn't work out well, but it's a big problem if the league starts calling Steph for offensive fouls while he's in the air shooting. (and - sacrilege alert - his form has changed in the past season or two to include the leg, and it does "appear" like he's reaching out for contact.)
Firstly, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrggggg. Secondly, what a strange and pivotal moment for the dubs? A mysterious cocktail of told-you-so, wrong-all-along, finally-clicked and finally-fell-apart. You can say almost anything and be both right and wrong. Steve just called me to say that all his highest hopes and worst fears were confirmed on the same night and even the DNHQ comments section, normal his last refuge of sanity, is just confusing. He’s going back to bed.
GP2 injury was a big deal yesterday. Not only we lost the disrupter king and one of the best on ball defenders but we lost a TO which would have been crucially helpful in those last 40 secs.
Pre-injury, everytime Kings started making a push, he disrupted a play and got us a bucket - took the crowd out a bit, let our OGs have a set defense.
Kerr - Fine that you want to ride with the OGs but don't go so far as to lose the last TO because Chef or Dray (see some other games) is asking for it. You suck at winning challenges. Just stop challenging.
Yeah, Gary was incredible last night, which is part of what makes his injury so disappointing. That block on Huerter, where he also corralled the rebound, was particularly exquisite.
Sheesh... I mean, I absolutely know Steph didn't make an actually unnatural movement, his leg kicked out because he was torquing his body around trying to fling a fadeaway 30 footer while turning to take the shot... but there's just absolutely no way you win that challenge.
Hmm, came here hoping to get cheered up a bit, guess not. As Dickens said:
"DNHQ!" I said imploringly. "Old DNHQ, tell me more! Speak comfort to me, DNHQ!"
"I have none to give," the Posts replied. "It comes from other regions, Dubs Nerd, and is conveyed by other ministers, to other kinds of men. Nor can I tell you what I would. A very little more is all permitted to me. I cannot rest, I cannot stay, I cannot linger anywhere. My spirit never walked beyond our fan site—mark me;—in life my spirit never roved beyond the narrow limits of this team; and weary journeys lie before me!"
>Every mediocre team will always have a very hard schedule
Wolves have the 5th toughest schedule so far, and Celtics have the 10th toughest schedule so far, yet both of them are at the top of their respective conferences.
Yeah, I agree with that. So for these Warriors, is it a mediocre team or a tough early schedule with starters out? For now I'll wait and see. Feels pretty bad at the moment, though.
I still think they have the makings of a good team, but have been done in by a combination of crap starts from key players, injuries, some dumb luck (like Monk and Chet) and some very stupid decisions being made by players and a coach who should know better. All this left them very vulnerable to a tough early schedule.
yes, i do get that distribution. Again point is, if a student does not study any exam is going to be hard. If a team is bad, every schedule is going to be hard!
As @Alex posted: is it a chicken-and-egg issue here - are we bad because of the schedule or just bad - I think it is the latter.
I mean... we're 8-10 with a ~0 point differential, not, say... 3-14 with a -8 point differential like the Spurs. There's more data if you want to look... or you can just look at the high level feeling of struggle and say it sucks... and it absolutely DOES suck...
New thread: https://open.substack.com/pub/dubnation/p/gary-payton-ii-has-torn-right-calf?r=3lm3s&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
I don't mean these are correct, but jeez, there are plenty of explanations that the narrative summarily dismissed...
maybe the rotations were already set, and consistency has a value
maybe younger players had been asking for clearer slots and roles
maybe Moody made a subtle mistake that pissed the coaches off
maybe Celebrini wants Moody to rest
maybe Kerr is trying everything he can think of to get Klay going
maybe Kerr explained this in private to Moody
or maybe Kerr and his staff made a bad judgement call, and it still doesn't fit into the tired, two-timeline narrative.
I hope the calf tear is more grade 2 than grade 3 🙏
With GP2 out there is absolutely no more excuses to not play Moody big minutes. My heart breaks for Gary but honestly this a golden opportunity for Moody and JK to make the most of their minutes. He will be back for the playoff boost. The script has been written.
Remember, Kerr wanted to take a sabbatical from the NBA but decided to stay because of the veterans (Steph, Klay, Green). That there explains a lot why he continues to play them even if their performance is sub-par.
https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/38806407/golden-state-warriors-coach-steve-kerr-conscious-protecting-steph-klay-fatigue
“If they were not here I could see myself taking a sabbatical” and “I wanted to take a sabbatical, but am staying because of them” are very different statements imo.
he did not get a break over the summer with the world cup squad - so he is likely really burnt out - and I feel for him - but it is costing this team games. I wish there was a way to do an "in-season" sabbatical, something like when mike brown took over for a week when Kerr was not well.
Gary : (
Oh man 😵
Golden State Warriors G/F Gary Payton II has suffered a torn right calf and will be sidelined indefinitely, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.
https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1730013637258219676?s=46&t=6-sxM4NpvzeWdNMn3aVCqg
I think GP2 needs to get on the Joga train. It's not that he needs more athleticism, he needs more resilience in his body. Joga should help with that.
Oh fuck
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Bummed for Gary, the team and the fans. As I said in the game thread before he got hurt and while he was out there Paytoning his ass off, he’s just so much fun to watch. I just love how he stayed with it and finally made it to the big-time and carved out a niche.
At least it isn’t an Achilles, which my wife thought it was when it happened. (She’s blown both of hers out.) Get well soon, GP2.
When he is out there, I'm always anticipating the next play he'd make on defense. Dude is fun to watch, even with all the issues surrounding the team.
Now, I don't know... Draymond hasn't really been a stand out on defense recently.
Uuuugh no. My favorite player 😭
Poor guy, he can’t get a break.
According to this:
https://www.fastmed.com/health-resources/torn-calf-muscle-recovery/
If it's a grade 2 injury, it'll take 4-6 weeks to heal. If it's a complete tear, then it'll take 3-4 months to heal.
So March, hopefully…
Kat was out for like damn near half a year last year with that calf strain.... I’m not expecting any good news as far as the timeline goes.
That's sad.
oh crap!
On the coaching moves down the stretch, my ranking for frustration:
1. Not preparing the team to handle the press at the end. This is the exact same press GSW had done against SAC at the end of every quarter. This one is a straight inexcusable F.
2. That challenge on the Curry foul. I thought they checked plays on the bench on video replay before challenging? This cost them a crucial timeout that they had clearly been hoarding since they declined to challenge some bad calls earlier. I give this a D-.
3. Subbing out Moody. Made me mad, but it's so easy to second guess this kind of thing. Since the vets he bet on all made big turnovers down the stretch, this gets a C-.
On to the next game...
Not going with 2 would have helped with 1.
Hopefully they get it together soon. Last season they were able to lean on the subpar play/records of the other teams in the West to ensure they made the playoffs. Probably not the case this season.
I love Kerr but this was some of the worst coaching I've seen in a long time. Coaching 101 type stuff. Never thought I would see it at the NBA level. (1) Taking out your hottest player in the middle of his hot streak while everyone else is struggling, (2) challenging an obvious foul thereby leaving you with 0 timeouts for late game strategy, (3) knowing the kings will press, double team, harass Curry in the backcourt, but decline to insert any other ball handlers in the game, leaving Curry on an island by himself to bring the ball up the court. And the most frustrating part is I'm not sure Kerr even realizes his mistakes.. He didn't seem to acknowledge them in the press conference....so does that mean in hindsight, he would he make the same coaching decisions again? Its a shame the media is too timid to confront him about it. Warriors will almost certainly be in this situation again.
leaving him on an island was Dray's fault, not coaching.
Understandable overreactions abound - that was an epic collapse with many contributors. After a night's sleep, I'm mostly worried about the injuries and I'm choosing to focus on the positives:
Wiggins coming back to himself - I tend to forget how good he is, and how often he bails out broken possessions with a variety of in-control, old-fashioned twos. He's got that Tim Duncan/KD bored killer vibe behind his maple-sweet smile.
Moody - Yes, I am deeply offended that Kerr violated the "feed-the-hot-hand" rule that is the foundation of "Strength in Numbers" BUT I'm also really happy that Moody keeps turning his game up, from mistake-free but quiet, to heady defensive opportunist, to all that plus deadly sniper.
Draymond's back - OK, he did lose his temper again and lost the game with his butterfingers, but first he broke up a three on one - with this mind! Defense like no one else's.
I agree with you about Moody and Draymond. And the fact that the Dubs were able to build a double digit lead against a great team. However, the coaching was so bad. Its hard to get over it. And it seems like the fact that Kerr benched Moody means that he has no trust or faith in him to play meaningful/important minutes. Its crazy. Moody was an afterthought. I don't think Kerr ever intended on playing him until injuries called for it.
Is this another overreaction?
Athletic Alchemy's sober take on Curry & Kerr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB2hHiFD-aU
He made a video after a one point loss to a great Kings team titled “The Warriors just got EXPOSED” lol
A GREAT Kings Team? Who knew?
By the way, the Dubs were up 24. Losing a 24 point lead to any team is pretty much a wholesale exposure of some kind(s) of weakness.
Bro anyone who has watched the Kings play in the last 1.5 years knows that team is great, don’t kid yourself.
Were the Bucks exposed when they were down 26 against the Blazers2 days ago? How about the heat when the Knicks came back down 21 three days ago? The Suns when we nearly came back down 23 last week? The Pelicans when the Nuggets came back down 20?
These big comebacks are commonplace, and yet it’s only when it happens to the warriors that the narrative is “The Warriors are cooked” or “The Warriors got exposed”. It’s an overreaction.
I'm just going to assume you are trolling. The Showtime Lakers were a GREAT team. The Heatles were a GREAT team. The Jordan Bulls were a GREAT team. The Curry Warriors were (are?) a GREAT team. . . . The Kings are a good team. GOOD team. That's quite an accomplishment. But they are nowhere near a great team. A great team does not get bounced out of Round 1 in a league where half or more of the teams make the playoffs. The only way for a team to be called GREAT during the season but prior to the playoffs is to break one of the major records like total wins or consecutive wins. But if they lost in Round 1, most people would re-designate them a good team. That said, the Kings aren't knocking on the door to win 40 straight games, or win more than 70, so they are a good team. If they win 3 straight NBA titles, or make 5 Finals in a row, then maybe they will be retrospectively labelled a great team. Now, they are a good team.
There’s a reason the phrase is “all-time great” not just “great”. Think its pretty well established that the word “great” just means better than “good” man.
From worst to best:
“They’re an ok team”
“They’re a good team”
“They’re a great team”
“They’re an excellent team”
“They’re an amazing team”
“They’re an all time great team”
Am I off base here? If I go out to dinner and say “The food was great!” do you think I had one of the best meals of my life? Or just that the food was really good?
I mean, I feel him, but it requires fully buying into the narrative that the Moody benching was a vote for Klay and the OGs over common sense and the hot hand. Yea, it does look that way from outside the locker room - so I'm fine with his sober take. But it's still a hangover day for all of us, and Kerr just told everyone that he was still messing around with line-ups.
Imma buckle up, but I'm still ride or die.
> I mean, I feel him, but it requires fully buying into the narrative that the Moody benching was a vote for Klay and the OGs over common sense and the hot hand.
The narrative. I can't help but chuckle. We used to call that "what happened." Now that we are in post-Truth America, basic facts can be dismissed by calling it "a narrative." So, let me ask: What are the alternative explanations? How plausible are they? Keep in mind, we have Kerr's exact words as evidence. When asked why he benched Moses in the midst of Moody's hot 4th quarter, Kerr said:
"Moses was awesome tonight. Um, you know, we, we needed to get Wigs on the floor, uh, for defense against Fox. Uh, and we, uh, decided to, to, to go with with Klay and our, our vets, you know. We thought about, um, you know, keeping him [Moses] out there but, um, you know we we made the move that we made."
NOTE: Moses Moody is a third year vet. But I guess he is still not one of "our vets." By Steve Kerr's own words.
its more 'die' than 'ride' with the way this team is being coached and is playing right now :-)
My personal stress relief playlist for the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDEiYHqhep8. Shared with love for DNHQ.
And, of course, the best song in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDEiYHqhep8&t=3936s
What the heck was Kerr doing challenging that Curry kick out with no timeouts left??
I mean we can point to many plays that lost the game, but that was pure amateur hour.
Right, Curry could have just called timeout when the Kings trapped him near the end of the game if they still had one, and the Warriors would have won.
It didn't work out well, but it's a big problem if the league starts calling Steph for offensive fouls while he's in the air shooting. (and - sacrilege alert - his form has changed in the past season or two to include the leg, and it does "appear" like he's reaching out for contact.)
He really needs one of those clock management coaches...
Firstly, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrggggg. Secondly, what a strange and pivotal moment for the dubs? A mysterious cocktail of told-you-so, wrong-all-along, finally-clicked and finally-fell-apart. You can say almost anything and be both right and wrong. Steve just called me to say that all his highest hopes and worst fears were confirmed on the same night and even the DNHQ comments section, normal his last refuge of sanity, is just confusing. He’s going back to bed.
GP2 injury was a big deal yesterday. Not only we lost the disrupter king and one of the best on ball defenders but we lost a TO which would have been crucially helpful in those last 40 secs.
Pre-injury, everytime Kings started making a push, he disrupted a play and got us a bucket - took the crowd out a bit, let our OGs have a set defense.
Kerr - Fine that you want to ride with the OGs but don't go so far as to lose the last TO because Chef or Dray (see some other games) is asking for it. You suck at winning challenges. Just stop challenging.
Yeah, Gary was incredible last night, which is part of what makes his injury so disappointing. That block on Huerter, where he also corralled the rebound, was particularly exquisite.
Did Steph ask for that challenge? I hadn't noticed... It was a truly horrible challenge...
Yes he did. You could see it on Kerr's face that he didn't want to.
Sheesh... I mean, I absolutely know Steph didn't make an actually unnatural movement, his leg kicked out because he was torquing his body around trying to fling a fadeaway 30 footer while turning to take the shot... but there's just absolutely no way you win that challenge.
Reminder: not a foul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URSKD05XocE&t=40s
(Yeah I know this was before the newer rules. Whatever).
Hmm, came here hoping to get cheered up a bit, guess not. As Dickens said:
"DNHQ!" I said imploringly. "Old DNHQ, tell me more! Speak comfort to me, DNHQ!"
"I have none to give," the Posts replied. "It comes from other regions, Dubs Nerd, and is conveyed by other ministers, to other kinds of men. Nor can I tell you what I would. A very little more is all permitted to me. I cannot rest, I cannot stay, I cannot linger anywhere. My spirit never walked beyond our fan site—mark me;—in life my spirit never roved beyond the narrow limits of this team; and weary journeys lie before me!"
Quoting Dickens on a Warriors board; username checks out.
Wallowing in misery together can be nice too lol
As can bargaining together! Maybe this is the performance that lets Moody cement himself in the rotation! Right? Maybe?
Mooby?
We remain #1 in strength of scheduled played. When will the Warriors not be in the top 5 in the list anymore?
http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php
also, moving forward we are currently, 27th out of 30th in SOS - i.e. amongst the easiest remaining schedule - maybe that will help!
https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength
every mediocre team will always have a very hard schedule - so while the SOS quantifies it, there are no easy games for the DUBS- period!
The Grizzlies have the 25th ranked schedule.
Okay, you want mediocre, not outright bad? The Pacers have the 24th ranked schedule.
Pacers? Mediocre? They're going to the KNOCKOUT ROUND!!!
Also, Clippers have the 2nd easiest schedule but are below .500.
>Every mediocre team will always have a very hard schedule
Wolves have the 5th toughest schedule so far, and Celtics have the 10th toughest schedule so far, yet both of them are at the top of their respective conferences.
and that says they are good teams
If you look around the league, this is false, at least at this point in the season. Plenty of mediocre teams with the easiest schedules so far.
my point is, SOS does not really matter when you are a mediocre or poor team - there will be no easy games no matter what the schedule is !
Yeah, I agree with that. So for these Warriors, is it a mediocre team or a tough early schedule with starters out? For now I'll wait and see. Feels pretty bad at the moment, though.
I still think they have the makings of a good team, but have been done in by a combination of crap starts from key players, injuries, some dumb luck (like Monk and Chet) and some very stupid decisions being made by players and a coach who should know better. All this left them very vulnerable to a tough early schedule.
TL;DR all of the above.
Games against teams currently above 0.500: 15 (83%)
Games against teams currently at 0.500: 1 (6%)
Games agains teams currently below 0.500: 2 (11%)
By the end of the season, no team will have played such an unbalanced slate of opponents...
NBA teams currently above 0.500: 17 (57%)
NBA teams currently at 0.500: 1 (3%)
NBA teams currently below 0.500: 12* (40%)
* Includes Warriors
yes, i do get that distribution. Again point is, if a student does not study any exam is going to be hard. If a team is bad, every schedule is going to be hard!
As @Alex posted: is it a chicken-and-egg issue here - are we bad because of the schedule or just bad - I think it is the latter.
I mean... we're 8-10 with a ~0 point differential, not, say... 3-14 with a -8 point differential like the Spurs. There's more data if you want to look... or you can just look at the high level feeling of struggle and say it sucks... and it absolutely DOES suck...
As a 6'11" Georgian Giant once said...