I would like to audition for head coach of the Golden State Warriors. I have specific plans. 1. Cory Joseph will not play except for garbage time or if the rest of the team is injured. 2. Klay Thompson is benched immediately and must earn his minutes from off the bench. 3. Moses Moody will start in his place. 4. In Draymond Green's absence, Jonathan Kuminga will start. 5. If Andrew Wiggins can retain his improved shooting, he will start over Kuminga. Otherwise Kuminga will start. 6. Both Kuminga and Moody will, regardless of starting position, play 25+ minutes. 7. Crunch time minutes will be allocated on the basis of who is playing well, not who is oldest. 8. I will install new schemes on offense. I can't tell you what those are, as that would make my secrets open. Suffice it to say that my offensive coach hire would be Eric Apricot. 9. We will foul immediately when up three with less than ten seconds on the clock. 10. Steph Curry will continue to be a focus of our attack. 11. I will discuss openly in post game interviews the mistakes I made in any game. 12. I will not play lineups of three small guards. Only two on the floor ever of Steph CP GPII Podz. 13. I will give TJD a lot of space to earn more minutes. I need to see more. 14. I will play Podz as much as Kerr is, off the bench. 15. I will run more Saric-Steph two man game. The most fluid scoring small and the most fluid big should be working together, not being ships in the night. 16. The standard split cut with no energy is hereby shelved for a while. Opponents are no longer upset and seem ready to take care of it. 17. They hype man who screams during timeouts will be fired, I hate that shit.
Thank you for the opportunity to interview with your team. Please let me know by Tuesday if possible, I am weighing other offers. 18. No kiss or other cams. Don't make me explain how cringe this is.
Ten game suspension for any behavior detrimental to the team as determined by the existing rules. 20 game suspension for the next one. Full season for the third.
However, that's the stick. For the carrot I would talk to the guy, get to know him, try to get him to understand how much he's already appreciated so he doesn't have to keep proving he's tough.
Another reason it'll be nice to get Draymond back is so we can stop seeing Podziemski being played against a team like the Thunder and get more length out on the court. He's playing too much for my liking at the moment but I get why Kerr's doing it, he typically wants two ballhandlers on the floor at all times and other than Draymond the team's ballhandlers are exclusively guards which means the lineups are smaller. That's why the starting lineup is Curry+CP3 whenever Draymond is out and Podz jumps Moody and Kuminga in the rotation.
Another reason: Dray can play with Podz, allowing Podz to play as a PG on the floor. Dray/Podz/Moody/Wiggins/Saric would be an interesting second quarter group, assuming Wiggins is actually out of his funk and can make shots… and doesn’t rely on Steph/CP on the floor at all times.
The ending of 4th quarter could've gone differently in so many ways:
A. Chet catches the ball and makes the turnaround 3. (What happened last night)
B. Chet catches the ball and either doesn't have time to shoot or misses the 3.
C. Wiggins is close enough to foul Chet when he catches the ball.
D. Wiggins or someone on the Warriors accidentally foul the Thunder too early. OKC gets awarded with a FT and gets sideline out of bounds.
E. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Chet goes up to take a shot, and Chet makes the shot anyway.
F. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Chet goes up to take a shot, but he misses.
G. Giddey holds on to the ball for too long, and the Thunder commit a 5-sec turnover.
H. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Wiggins holds onto Chet for too long, and the officials call a shooting foul on Wiggins when Chet takes the shot. Chet doesn't make the shot, but he is awarded 3 FTAs.
I. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Wiggins holds onto Chet for too long, and the officials call a shooting foul on Wiggins when Chet takes the shot. Chet makes the shot, and Chet hits the FT to win the game.
J. Giddey throws the ball onto someone wide open on the other corner, and that player proceeds to hit the three to send the game to OT.
K. Giddey throws the ball to the wrong player, and the Warriors get the ball and win the game.
L. Thunder commits an offensive foul on the Warriors, and the Warriors win the game.
I don't get the point of this post. It seems like a rather belabored apologia. Yes, sure, there are many possibilities. But we could also have on your list M. An asteroid could have hit Chase Center.
But the BY FAR MOST LIKELY TO WORK PLAY was to foul the guy who catches the ball, as soon as he catches the ball. ESPECIALLY a big guy whose body takes a while to get into any shooting motion. Ball hits his hand, smack him and shove him out of bounds. It's not a debate that would puzzle a middle school coach. Foul whoever catches the ball. Game over.
his back was to the basket - it should have been very easy to commit a foul there and NOT be called for a shooting foul - we seem to be great at fouling in every possible situation anyways!
Wiggins wasn’t quite close enough, tho… if Wiggins had stayed attached, then Trey, that’s the play, but Chet had time to catch and turn before Wiggins got there, so couldn’t risk sending a 90%+ shooter to the line.
I assume you’re referring to CP. If the idea is to foul on the catch, you want CP there to use his Point God smarts to stay attached and grab somebody… I’d think different if it wasn’t a “foul them situation”.
I mean presumably the idea is that you want smart players out there to read and be prepared for whatever complicated action the Thunder would run to get a shot off.
Which is silly. He has excellent BBIQ, but how smart do you have to be to foul? Apparently smarter than Kerr and Wiggins. Yet CP being out there makes no sense because what's really needed is size and athleticism and he has the absolute least. As we saw on the play, where he was irrelevant.
I think we should look on the bright side. In the appalling endings pantheon of games where the Dubs snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This game pales in comparison to the Utah game of last season where JP personally coughed up a 4 pt lead with seconds remaining.
When I think about it, we've actually sucked more often than not since 2020; 15 wins, then miss the playoffs, then win a championship, then a rollercoaster of a season and now a repeat of last year but in a stacked West
From a dour perspective, this is true and this is the issue with following an aging core… but when GSW were good, they were ultimately good.
Basically, I would not trade the last four years for any other team’s. Would you? Don’t forget how the 2022 title permanently changed the discussion of Steph and the previous three titles.
Sure, but it's gonna take more than 44 wins to actually make it that far again. The wheels haven't completely fallen off but the league and the refs aren't doing us any favors (actually the complete opposite)
I think it's fair to call the season a failure if you are judging by the standard of "we have the arguable GOAT and should be contending every season", but I think saying that they outright sucked is just feelings of frustration during a losing streak (which I understand).
How do we define "contending"? Being in a competitive 6-game conference semi-final series arguably qualifies as contending. Or are we only contending if we make the conference finals? The NBA finals?
I got to watch the first half and listen to the last 10 minutes on the radio. I wanted to come in on the side of that being a exciting and fun to watch game. Steph back! So many positives with Wiggins! Nice plays from Kuminga.
Continue to be grateful for our Warriors. All the elements that I love about the NBA. It is cool to see our old guard face the next up and coming group: OKC is such a fun and talented team these days.
It hurts to lose - before the play I was super anxious about Chet getting the ball on the inbounds and making the three. He is a really good 3 point shooter and he is taller than everybody else on our team so hard to defend.
From the second that Wiggins hit his three to put the Dubs ahead, I was sure that OKC was going to tie it. The reason?
Frickin' nba.com. Watched the game late last night on my League Pass. Was careful to click the "hide scores" button before selecting the game. So when I get to the Dubs' game listing it says "Final/OT". So basically I watched a full game, knowing it was going to OT. Couldn't get excited when Dubs went up 18 because I knew they'd give it all back. And then I was able to watch the OT, not knowing the outcome, and had to suffer through the Dubs' poor play. Would it be too hard for nba.com to leave out the "OT" and just list the game as "Final"?
Could it be that Kerr is playing Klay so many minutes early in the season to help Klay see that he's no longer who he thinks he is? Perhaps this is a genius move--as painful as it is to us fans--so that Klay hopefully recognizes that he needs to step back and let the younger guys play. Unless Klay has a large enough sample size, with losses this year and the playoff series vs the Lakers, he's not going to go to the coaches and see that what's best for the team is reduced minutes for him. Then Kerr can bring Klay in off the bench for a reduced role (and not have him in closing lineups), and Klay can be a more efficient role player. If that happens, maybe the Warriors can really take off and go on a winning stretch.
On the other hand, the danger behind this strategy is that Klay never gets it (Klay was the one who apparently doesn't remember Kerr's meeting with the 6 "starters" about everybody supporting decisions around playing time for the sake of the team). So the question is, will Kerr ever step in and make the decision for Klay, or will the whole season be like this, especially due to it being a contract year for Klay? If that's the case, Klay might not get more than a vet min.
No. Kerr plays vets because Kerr plays vets. The thing is, vets are indeed wiser on the whole, but they have to be *enough* wiser that their wisdom offsets the other considerations like athleticism or recent poor play or just being tired.
I did think about this and whether Klay has that level of self awareness to let Kerr know he will come off the bench. I don’t think klay will unfortunately
It could also be playing it for the other vets so that they could help convince Klay. But the simpler answer is I bet Kerr just thinks Klay needs more time to get out of the funk/ that he'll be needed in the PS. That aligns with his general vet heavy vibe
That ending was unspeakable. We are all bound now in the appalled, awkward fellowship known to people who have collectively witnessed an atrocity. It's for the best that this site uses written text only, because I don't know how we'd look each other in the eye after that.
This is so poetically put. We can never really trust each other now, feel comfortable with each other now, even though we were not the ones who committed the sin. By mere proximity to it, we all have the collective guilt. I buy it.
Nov 19, 2023·edited Nov 19, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot
Even in the championship years, we would gack up one or two of these games every year. We are a high variance team.
We aren't anywhere close to that championship level now, so I can't get too upset about. We'll probably have several more games like this to get through by the end of the year.
The flashy thingy exists for a reason.
I'm more interested in next game ... has Wiggs really broken out of his slump? To me, his shot still looked very flat ... they just went in this game.
I agree. In fact, I do not think that game rose to the level of a flashy thing. Damn frustrating of course, but they fought honorably and with inspiration with unhelpful servings of bad judgment.
16 pts on 5-13 shooting and negligible everything else is Good Klay. That’s sad. Are his minutes ever gonna get reduced? Or is the rest of our precious Steph time gonna have this lead weight around it’s neck?
The LAL series should’ve been the last straw. Spinning wheels at this point.
He was good (offensive) Klay till the 4th… and it was 16 points on, like 9 shots. He 100% could not stay in front of Williams. He 100% reverted to bad Klay, and took some horrible hero shots in the 4th and OT.
One was blocked (IIRC), and one other time a taller player was all over him. Both were terrible shots.
I will say that one of the shots in the 4th (next to the OKC bench), I think he had to take. No one came to him to give him an outlet to pass ... that's not on him.
I think you’ve got to give Klay every chance to show his old self before carving out a lesser role. His minutes may dwindle but should start until his replacement puts out a body of work that, over months, clearly separates them. Right now, the best data set includes the last two years and I don’t yet see anyone who has clearly stepped out ahead.
People are having amnesia if they think the slump Klay is currently in is reflective of how he played last season or in the playoffs the season before.
Scored poorly against MEM and BOS, scored well against DEN and DAL. Not great total considering his regular season that year but you take the ring and the fact that was his first year back. Last year he was good post all star break. It was much needed after his poor start, and doesn’t balance out his dogshit LAL series or his meh SAC series.
15% of the way through the current reg season and him looking more like his postseason self instead of reg season self... yeah I’ll gladly take a reduction in his role.
See earlier posts on how volatility (aka, high variance) reduces the impact on winning of 40% from 3. Or, consider this illustration. I come out of retirement, join the Dubs, and play 80 games. In 32 games I am 10/10 from 3. In 48 games I am 0/10 from 3. Overall I am hitting at a 40%. BUT, while I clearly contribute to probably winning those 32 games where I go 10 for 10, in all other games I am a big drag on the team--we could easily lose all 48. More likely, we win a small percentage of them, like maybe 5 to 8.
It would be better for winning if I were 4/10 for all 80 games I play. That would be much more likely to make my performance improve the team's won-loss record.
Quick check: Using last year, I classified games by whether the player was hitting above 33.3% on three's, below 33.3% on threes, or exactly 33.3% on threes.
Klay, overall 3pt%41.2%: 42 games above, 19 games below, 5 games at 33.3%
Klay, 63.6% of games player was above 33.3% from 3. Pretty good.
MJP, overall 3pt% 41.4%: 47 games above, 13 games below, 2 games at 33.3%
MJP, 75.8% of games player was above 33.3% from 3. Elite.
This is the difference. One of those players' teams won the title last year. One of those players' teams barely won a 7 game first round series and got bounced out in a 6 game second round series. Clearly that's not the only reason for the different team outcomes. But the different levels of performance volatility probably did contribute to the different team outcomes.
Or he believes that Klay needs to play his way out of it. Worked for Wiggs last night. My biggest frustration with the loss is that it robbed Wiggs of glory that would have been huge for him.
Sublaxation just means a dislocation right? I think people just keep ripping his arm around lol. I remember Smart really jacking it the wrong way Moody’s rookie season.
Rockets have been good, are (mostly) young, no time change, short flight. That’s about the softest road back to back you’ll ever see so I wouldn’t count on them playing poorly.
You mean you wouldn't enjoy losing on Dillon Brooks making a game winning 3 over Steph and talking all kinds of trash forever? Just after clearly fouling Steph to get a steal but the refs hold their whistles, as is custom for Brooks-guarding-Steph?
(I may or may not be mentally preparing myself for this kind of nightmare scenario)
Kerr’s getting roasted for not fouling on the final shot in regulation, but it seems pretty clear that was the plan, but they failed in the execution. Given that Wiggins has looked so confidence-shaken until last night, I’m convinced he didn’t want to throw Wiggins under the bus after he finally put it all together, otherwise.
Just like with Klay, there’s an ego management aspect to coaching that’s easy to understate.
I think that play was a lot trickier for Wiggins to execute than fans are making it. As soon as Holmgren catches that ball he could theoretically be turning and firing. Wiggins is weighing the risk of fouling Holmgren and giving up three free throws (or even a four point play) versus contesting Holmgren on a turnaround three pointer with time expiring. Holmgren might be a good three point shooter but it's not a standard three point shot and he's also been 90+% from the line so far this season.
But yeah I do think that makes sense about not throwing him under the bus too.
It was reported below that Kerr did tell his guys to foul, just not on a shot. I don't really fault Wiggs. That would have been a long reach, and he easily could have gotten a shooting foul.
That is the more legitimate argument, I think. I don't know what the defensive plan was (hopefully, switch everything ... there was only 1.6 seconds!). There was a breakdown, obviously. Holmgren should have had a player right next to him.
I don't know who was at fault (haven't gone back to rewatch it). I'm just saying the decision not to reach was a fair one.
Switch everything = Wiggs was late to switch. Maybe CP3 didn’t yell fast enough, but Wiggs should really just know he takes the player heading toward him…
Yep. Sometimes they just make a shot and there’s not some easy solution. Remember Dwayne Wade in his last game against us @Miami banking in a ridiculous shot. 🤷♀️
Nov 19, 2023·edited Nov 19, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot
For some weird reason, that game does not really hurt the day after.
I think I'm getting to que c'era, c'era. And, not necessarily in a bad way. I still think we're going to make the playoffs. Do I think we're a top-tier contender this year? Not unless something changes dramatically.
Wiggins is probably going to sort himself out. Klay, hoo boy ... don't know. The defense has fallen off so badly, we'd really need him to be a splash brother 80% of the time, instead of when ... 1 game in 12?
We need a couple of other dominos to fall to get back to top tier contender status. Kuminga needs to get a lot better (but the needle is trending up). We need Paul not to be the only option that Kerr feels he has at the end of games if someone is out. We either need Klay to not be a shell of himself, or for Kerr to put Moods in the starting lineup.
All that said, last night was a very fun game until it wasn't, and a lot of the complaints I had went away. We looked like a competent basketball team (and without 1/2 of our big-man rotation and our best on-ball defender).
I'll take that for now, and hope we have fun games until/if we are ready to compete.
Nov 19, 2023·edited Nov 19, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot
> For some weird reason, that game does not really hurt the day after.
It's because they played very well and lost it in a bit of a fluky way, plus the Thunder are a legitimately good team and not a fraud. They are a top 4 seed lock imo unless Holmgren doesn't physically survive the grind of playing center every night. The Holmgren types are probably the toughest types of players for the Warriors to deal with, tall, long, mobile, and skilled.
Also it was encouraging in Kerr's interview or press conference or something the past day or two where he acknowledged that they are not where they want to be pace-wise and they need to push the tempo. This team is not and will never be a walk it up basketball team.
Yeah, you said it in 1/4 the words. We played well, we lost.
Holmgren looks ready to compete for a title. Shai might be the best point guard in the league by the end of the year (if he isn't already).
I was encouraged that someone other than Steph was able to get penetration. I also thought our defense and rebounding was pretty good (Klay excepted). We can build on that.
https://dubnationhq.com/publish/posts/detail/138996994/share-center are we LOSERS???
Correct link: https://dubnationhq.com/p/thunder-stun-warriors-130-123-despite
Daniel, when I follow this link, it says it is a private page.
edit: I can get to the story by going to the front page and clicking on it there. So, not a big deal.
I would like to audition for head coach of the Golden State Warriors. I have specific plans. 1. Cory Joseph will not play except for garbage time or if the rest of the team is injured. 2. Klay Thompson is benched immediately and must earn his minutes from off the bench. 3. Moses Moody will start in his place. 4. In Draymond Green's absence, Jonathan Kuminga will start. 5. If Andrew Wiggins can retain his improved shooting, he will start over Kuminga. Otherwise Kuminga will start. 6. Both Kuminga and Moody will, regardless of starting position, play 25+ minutes. 7. Crunch time minutes will be allocated on the basis of who is playing well, not who is oldest. 8. I will install new schemes on offense. I can't tell you what those are, as that would make my secrets open. Suffice it to say that my offensive coach hire would be Eric Apricot. 9. We will foul immediately when up three with less than ten seconds on the clock. 10. Steph Curry will continue to be a focus of our attack. 11. I will discuss openly in post game interviews the mistakes I made in any game. 12. I will not play lineups of three small guards. Only two on the floor ever of Steph CP GPII Podz. 13. I will give TJD a lot of space to earn more minutes. I need to see more. 14. I will play Podz as much as Kerr is, off the bench. 15. I will run more Saric-Steph two man game. The most fluid scoring small and the most fluid big should be working together, not being ships in the night. 16. The standard split cut with no energy is hereby shelved for a while. Opponents are no longer upset and seem ready to take care of it. 17. They hype man who screams during timeouts will be fired, I hate that shit.
Thank you for the opportunity to interview with your team. Please let me know by Tuesday if possible, I am weighing other offers. 18. No kiss or other cams. Don't make me explain how cringe this is.
Admit it. This all just a ploy to get kuminga his minutes. Everything else is to sell us on your devious plan.
I just can't understand kerr's closing lineups last night. I'm really hoping last night was a wake up call.
You're onto me and my idol.
I have one question only: How will you deal with the choke-holding, nut-stomping great called day day!
Ten game suspension for any behavior detrimental to the team as determined by the existing rules. 20 game suspension for the next one. Full season for the third.
However, that's the stick. For the carrot I would talk to the guy, get to know him, try to get him to understand how much he's already appreciated so he doesn't have to keep proving he's tough.
good response - you pass
#17 gets a double-like with the addendum that the position be totally abolished as well.
Another reason it'll be nice to get Draymond back is so we can stop seeing Podziemski being played against a team like the Thunder and get more length out on the court. He's playing too much for my liking at the moment but I get why Kerr's doing it, he typically wants two ballhandlers on the floor at all times and other than Draymond the team's ballhandlers are exclusively guards which means the lineups are smaller. That's why the starting lineup is Curry+CP3 whenever Draymond is out and Podz jumps Moody and Kuminga in the rotation.
Another reason: Dray can play with Podz, allowing Podz to play as a PG on the floor. Dray/Podz/Moody/Wiggins/Saric would be an interesting second quarter group, assuming Wiggins is actually out of his funk and can make shots… and doesn’t rely on Steph/CP on the floor at all times.
The ending of 4th quarter could've gone differently in so many ways:
A. Chet catches the ball and makes the turnaround 3. (What happened last night)
B. Chet catches the ball and either doesn't have time to shoot or misses the 3.
C. Wiggins is close enough to foul Chet when he catches the ball.
D. Wiggins or someone on the Warriors accidentally foul the Thunder too early. OKC gets awarded with a FT and gets sideline out of bounds.
E. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Chet goes up to take a shot, and Chet makes the shot anyway.
F. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Chet goes up to take a shot, but he misses.
G. Giddey holds on to the ball for too long, and the Thunder commit a 5-sec turnover.
H. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Wiggins holds onto Chet for too long, and the officials call a shooting foul on Wiggins when Chet takes the shot. Chet doesn't make the shot, but he is awarded 3 FTAs.
I. Chet catches the ball and Wiggins fouls him, but the officials don't call the foul. Wiggins holds onto Chet for too long, and the officials call a shooting foul on Wiggins when Chet takes the shot. Chet makes the shot, and Chet hits the FT to win the game.
J. Giddey throws the ball onto someone wide open on the other corner, and that player proceeds to hit the three to send the game to OT.
K. Giddey throws the ball to the wrong player, and the Warriors get the ball and win the game.
L. Thunder commits an offensive foul on the Warriors, and the Warriors win the game.
I don't get the point of this post. It seems like a rather belabored apologia. Yes, sure, there are many possibilities. But we could also have on your list M. An asteroid could have hit Chase Center.
But the BY FAR MOST LIKELY TO WORK PLAY was to foul the guy who catches the ball, as soon as he catches the ball. ESPECIALLY a big guy whose body takes a while to get into any shooting motion. Ball hits his hand, smack him and shove him out of bounds. It's not a debate that would puzzle a middle school coach. Foul whoever catches the ball. Game over.
his back was to the basket - it should have been very easy to commit a foul there and NOT be called for a shooting foul - we seem to be great at fouling in every possible situation anyways!
Wiggins wasn’t quite close enough, tho… if Wiggins had stayed attached, then Trey, that’s the play, but Chet had time to catch and turn before Wiggins got there, so couldn’t risk sending a 90%+ shooter to the line.
It's just a bunch of random ending scenarios I had in my head that I wanted to type out. Shall I reveal more?
I am totally not crazy about the way the game went last night. I think....
Did Kerr address why CO was on the court to begin with? He is NOT one of the five best defensive players on the team.
I assume you’re referring to CP. If the idea is to foul on the catch, you want CP there to use his Point God smarts to stay attached and grab somebody… I’d think different if it wasn’t a “foul them situation”.
I mean presumably the idea is that you want smart players out there to read and be prepared for whatever complicated action the Thunder would run to get a shot off.
Which is silly. He has excellent BBIQ, but how smart do you have to be to foul? Apparently smarter than Kerr and Wiggins. Yet CP being out there makes no sense because what's really needed is size and athleticism and he has the absolute least. As we saw on the play, where he was irrelevant.
I think we should look on the bright side. In the appalling endings pantheon of games where the Dubs snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This game pales in comparison to the Utah game of last season where JP personally coughed up a 4 pt lead with seconds remaining.
Thank god that mf gone
When I think about it, we've actually sucked more often than not since 2020; 15 wins, then miss the playoffs, then win a championship, then a rollercoaster of a season and now a repeat of last year but in a stacked West
From a dour perspective, this is true and this is the issue with following an aging core… but when GSW were good, they were ultimately good.
Basically, I would not trade the last four years for any other team’s. Would you? Don’t forget how the 2022 title permanently changed the discussion of Steph and the previous three titles.
They don't suck this year imo. Heat were 1-4 and are now 8-5, it's a long season.
Is your point that the Heat are good :)
The Heat have my large adult son Jaime Jaquez on the team, so they are good by default.
After last season and how quickly things fell apart this early, they're gonna have to prove they don't suck
Okay but if we're being factual, they were one of eight teams to get to the second round of the playoffs last season.
Sure, but it's gonna take more than 44 wins to actually make it that far again. The wheels haven't completely fallen off but the league and the refs aren't doing us any favors (actually the complete opposite)
If every team's stacked, why do you think 44 wins is insufficient?
And we lost in the second round 4-2 where two of the losses were random endings. Not close to a disaster at all.
I think it's fair to call the season a failure if you are judging by the standard of "we have the arguable GOAT and should be contending every season", but I think saying that they outright sucked is just feelings of frustration during a losing streak (which I understand).
How do we define "contending"? Being in a competitive 6-game conference semi-final series arguably qualifies as contending. Or are we only contending if we make the conference finals? The NBA finals?
I got to watch the first half and listen to the last 10 minutes on the radio. I wanted to come in on the side of that being a exciting and fun to watch game. Steph back! So many positives with Wiggins! Nice plays from Kuminga.
Continue to be grateful for our Warriors. All the elements that I love about the NBA. It is cool to see our old guard face the next up and coming group: OKC is such a fun and talented team these days.
It hurts to lose - before the play I was super anxious about Chet getting the ball on the inbounds and making the three. He is a really good 3 point shooter and he is taller than everybody else on our team so hard to defend.
From the second that Wiggins hit his three to put the Dubs ahead, I was sure that OKC was going to tie it. The reason?
Frickin' nba.com. Watched the game late last night on my League Pass. Was careful to click the "hide scores" button before selecting the game. So when I get to the Dubs' game listing it says "Final/OT". So basically I watched a full game, knowing it was going to OT. Couldn't get excited when Dubs went up 18 because I knew they'd give it all back. And then I was able to watch the OT, not knowing the outcome, and had to suffer through the Dubs' poor play. Would it be too hard for nba.com to leave out the "OT" and just list the game as "Final"?
Barring injuries, it’s gonna be Chet’s league
Could it be that Kerr is playing Klay so many minutes early in the season to help Klay see that he's no longer who he thinks he is? Perhaps this is a genius move--as painful as it is to us fans--so that Klay hopefully recognizes that he needs to step back and let the younger guys play. Unless Klay has a large enough sample size, with losses this year and the playoff series vs the Lakers, he's not going to go to the coaches and see that what's best for the team is reduced minutes for him. Then Kerr can bring Klay in off the bench for a reduced role (and not have him in closing lineups), and Klay can be a more efficient role player. If that happens, maybe the Warriors can really take off and go on a winning stretch.
On the other hand, the danger behind this strategy is that Klay never gets it (Klay was the one who apparently doesn't remember Kerr's meeting with the 6 "starters" about everybody supporting decisions around playing time for the sake of the team). So the question is, will Kerr ever step in and make the decision for Klay, or will the whole season be like this, especially due to it being a contract year for Klay? If that's the case, Klay might not get more than a vet min.
No. Kerr plays vets because Kerr plays vets. The thing is, vets are indeed wiser on the whole, but they have to be *enough* wiser that their wisdom offsets the other considerations like athleticism or recent poor play or just being tired.
I did think about this and whether Klay has that level of self awareness to let Kerr know he will come off the bench. I don’t think klay will unfortunately
It could also be playing it for the other vets so that they could help convince Klay. But the simpler answer is I bet Kerr just thinks Klay needs more time to get out of the funk/ that he'll be needed in the PS. That aligns with his general vet heavy vibe
That ending was unspeakable. We are all bound now in the appalled, awkward fellowship known to people who have collectively witnessed an atrocity. It's for the best that this site uses written text only, because I don't know how we'd look each other in the eye after that.
Man, sounds like this was a decent one to miss.
Actually, it was a good game for the most part. It ended badly though.
This is so poetically put. We can never really trust each other now, feel comfortable with each other now, even though we were not the ones who committed the sin. By mere proximity to it, we all have the collective guilt. I buy it.
Even in the championship years, we would gack up one or two of these games every year. We are a high variance team.
We aren't anywhere close to that championship level now, so I can't get too upset about. We'll probably have several more games like this to get through by the end of the year.
The flashy thingy exists for a reason.
I'm more interested in next game ... has Wiggs really broken out of his slump? To me, his shot still looked very flat ... they just went in this game.
I agree. In fact, I do not think that game rose to the level of a flashy thing. Damn frustrating of course, but they fought honorably and with inspiration with unhelpful servings of bad judgment.
Better than the loss to the wizards 2 years ago on a 4 point play lol.
Or the persistent turnovers from Klay and JP to end the @UTA game last year…
16 pts on 5-13 shooting and negligible everything else is Good Klay. That’s sad. Are his minutes ever gonna get reduced? Or is the rest of our precious Steph time gonna have this lead weight around it’s neck?
The LAL series should’ve been the last straw. Spinning wheels at this point.
He was good (offensive) Klay till the 4th… and it was 16 points on, like 9 shots. He 100% could not stay in front of Williams. He 100% reverted to bad Klay, and took some horrible hero shots in the 4th and OT.
Not me. I want a team to play soundly, especially now. The habits established now will matter as the season wears on.
One was blocked (IIRC), and one other time a taller player was all over him. Both were terrible shots.
I will say that one of the shots in the 4th (next to the OKC bench), I think he had to take. No one came to him to give him an outlet to pass ... that's not on him.
I think you’ve got to give Klay every chance to show his old self before carving out a lesser role. His minutes may dwindle but should start until his replacement puts out a body of work that, over months, clearly separates them. Right now, the best data set includes the last two years and I don’t yet see anyone who has clearly stepped out ahead.
2+ seasons (and postseasons) is a ton of time. 2 years is like 5 years in NBA years
People are having amnesia if they think the slump Klay is currently in is reflective of how he played last season or in the playoffs the season before.
Scored poorly against MEM and BOS, scored well against DEN and DAL. Not great total considering his regular season that year but you take the ring and the fact that was his first year back. Last year he was good post all star break. It was much needed after his poor start, and doesn’t balance out his dogshit LAL series or his meh SAC series.
15% of the way through the current reg season and him looking more like his postseason self instead of reg season self... yeah I’ll gladly take a reduction in his role.
“Last straw” following a season where he shot over 40% on threes and led the league in made threes? That’s nuts talk.
See earlier posts on how volatility (aka, high variance) reduces the impact on winning of 40% from 3. Or, consider this illustration. I come out of retirement, join the Dubs, and play 80 games. In 32 games I am 10/10 from 3. In 48 games I am 0/10 from 3. Overall I am hitting at a 40%. BUT, while I clearly contribute to probably winning those 32 games where I go 10 for 10, in all other games I am a big drag on the team--we could easily lose all 48. More likely, we win a small percentage of them, like maybe 5 to 8.
It would be better for winning if I were 4/10 for all 80 games I play. That would be much more likely to make my performance improve the team's won-loss record.
Quick check: Using last year, I classified games by whether the player was hitting above 33.3% on three's, below 33.3% on threes, or exactly 33.3% on threes.
Klay, overall 3pt%41.2%: 42 games above, 19 games below, 5 games at 33.3%
Klay, 63.6% of games player was above 33.3% from 3. Pretty good.
MJP, overall 3pt% 41.4%: 47 games above, 13 games below, 2 games at 33.3%
MJP, 75.8% of games player was above 33.3% from 3. Elite.
This is the difference. One of those players' teams won the title last year. One of those players' teams barely won a 7 game first round series and got bounced out in a 6 game second round series. Clearly that's not the only reason for the different team outcomes. But the different levels of performance volatility probably did contribute to the different team outcomes.
That was great for sure. Don’t look at the playoff numbers (especially the LAL series numbers) though.
It also doesn’t mean he should be getting the minutes he is. Kerr is scared to death to mess with his role like he’s some volatile diva.
Or he believes that Klay needs to play his way out of it. Worked for Wiggs last night. My biggest frustration with the loss is that it robbed Wiggs of glory that would have been huge for him.
Completely OT: I missed the 3Q laughing to the point of tears over the Insta B/Dreamshake blog. Still trying to recover, unable to explain to husband.
Awesome. Glad I posted it. Hope you didn’t bust anything.
Nothing broken. Forever changed, yes.
How is it possible that the schedule was made in a way that the warriors have played 4 more games than the rockets? Theres gotta be a better way.
Any word on Moses’ injury? Just a wrist smack? Or I heard somebody say something about his prior shoulder subluxation?
OK but that's speculation based on no evidence. Which is okay, fans do that, but let's take it for what it is.
Is it chronic, tho?
Sublaxation just means a dislocation right? I think people just keep ripping his arm around lol. I remember Smart really jacking it the wrong way Moody’s rookie season.
Partial dislocations can certainly become something like a chronic issue, but I have to believe good sports medicine would generally prevent that.
Alright… Rockets coming to town Monday on a SEGABABA after playing @ LAL tonight. Should be a win…
Rockets have been good, are (mostly) young, no time change, short flight. That’s about the softest road back to back you’ll ever see so I wouldn’t count on them playing poorly.
🙉🙉🙉
But seriously, a loss at that small advantage at this point will be concerning.
You mean you wouldn't enjoy losing on Dillon Brooks making a game winning 3 over Steph and talking all kinds of trash forever? Just after clearly fouling Steph to get a steal but the refs hold their whistles, as is custom for Brooks-guarding-Steph?
(I may or may not be mentally preparing myself for this kind of nightmare scenario)
Yes. I would not enjoy that outcome.
Kerr’s getting roasted for not fouling on the final shot in regulation, but it seems pretty clear that was the plan, but they failed in the execution. Given that Wiggins has looked so confidence-shaken until last night, I’m convinced he didn’t want to throw Wiggins under the bus after he finally put it all together, otherwise.
Just like with Klay, there’s an ego management aspect to coaching that’s easy to understate.
Having both Curry and CP3 out there makes even less sense to me than saying not to foul.
Get all the long armed guys in there.
I think that play was a lot trickier for Wiggins to execute than fans are making it. As soon as Holmgren catches that ball he could theoretically be turning and firing. Wiggins is weighing the risk of fouling Holmgren and giving up three free throws (or even a four point play) versus contesting Holmgren on a turnaround three pointer with time expiring. Holmgren might be a good three point shooter but it's not a standard three point shot and he's also been 90+% from the line so far this season.
But yeah I do think that makes sense about not throwing him under the bus too.
It was reported below that Kerr did tell his guys to foul, just not on a shot. I don't really fault Wiggs. That would have been a long reach, and he easily could have gotten a shooting foul.
But who do you blame for the botched switch that pulled Wiggs too far away to recover and foul?
That is the more legitimate argument, I think. I don't know what the defensive plan was (hopefully, switch everything ... there was only 1.6 seconds!). There was a breakdown, obviously. Holmgren should have had a player right next to him.
I don't know who was at fault (haven't gone back to rewatch it). I'm just saying the decision not to reach was a fair one.
Switch everything = Wiggs was late to switch. Maybe CP3 didn’t yell fast enough, but Wiggs should really just know he takes the player heading toward him…
Yep. Sometimes they just make a shot and there’s not some easy solution. Remember Dwayne Wade in his last game against us @Miami banking in a ridiculous shot. 🤷♀️
For some weird reason, that game does not really hurt the day after.
I think I'm getting to que c'era, c'era. And, not necessarily in a bad way. I still think we're going to make the playoffs. Do I think we're a top-tier contender this year? Not unless something changes dramatically.
Wiggins is probably going to sort himself out. Klay, hoo boy ... don't know. The defense has fallen off so badly, we'd really need him to be a splash brother 80% of the time, instead of when ... 1 game in 12?
We need a couple of other dominos to fall to get back to top tier contender status. Kuminga needs to get a lot better (but the needle is trending up). We need Paul not to be the only option that Kerr feels he has at the end of games if someone is out. We either need Klay to not be a shell of himself, or for Kerr to put Moods in the starting lineup.
All that said, last night was a very fun game until it wasn't, and a lot of the complaints I had went away. We looked like a competent basketball team (and without 1/2 of our big-man rotation and our best on-ball defender).
I'll take that for now, and hope we have fun games until/if we are ready to compete.
> For some weird reason, that game does not really hurt the day after.
It's because they played very well and lost it in a bit of a fluky way, plus the Thunder are a legitimately good team and not a fraud. They are a top 4 seed lock imo unless Holmgren doesn't physically survive the grind of playing center every night. The Holmgren types are probably the toughest types of players for the Warriors to deal with, tall, long, mobile, and skilled.
Also it was encouraging in Kerr's interview or press conference or something the past day or two where he acknowledged that they are not where they want to be pace-wise and they need to push the tempo. This team is not and will never be a walk it up basketball team.
Yeah, you said it in 1/4 the words. We played well, we lost.
Holmgren looks ready to compete for a title. Shai might be the best point guard in the league by the end of the year (if he isn't already).
I was encouraged that someone other than Steph was able to get penetration. I also thought our defense and rebounding was pretty good (Klay excepted). We can build on that.
> Shai might be the best point guard in the league by the end of the year (if he isn't already).
Yeah I dunno about that, personally I'm going to go with the best player in the league in Steph Curry.