Honestly I think the NBA needs to force Draymond go to some counseling or something before he can come back. It'll completely tank the Warrior season but it is what it is, it seems he's going to tank the Warrior season either way with how he can draw a 5-10 game suspension at any time.
1. Listen to Draymond's claim that "hey, I'm just flailing to try to sell a call" and offer an all expenses paid 2 week retreat with some retired referees on how to properly sell a call without flailing your arms around.
2. Keep consistent and fair with consequences, regardless how how Draymond, the Warriors, the NBAPA, the old media, the new media, or anybody else wants to influence things
Not sure what consistency means here, because is there any precedent for the situation Draymond is in? This is 6 games after getting back from the last suspension which was 10 games after getting back from the suspension before that which was during the same season as the leaked footage Poole punch.
We are well past preventing outside forces from influencing the reaction to Draymond's actions, I think. He has a serious reputation post-Poole punch, and every time one of these things happens it goes viral. I don't think the NBA will be able to ignore the outside noise and how they see it affecting their league brand, especially if they feel they tried to ignore it on the last one and this is how Draymond repaid them.
I dunno, I think there's a world where last night was the end of the Warrior season. We'll see what happens though.
The Punch was the low point (so far) but unfortunately Draymond had a serious reputation long before that. Arguing with refs is merely annoying and can be dealt with by T'ing him up. But things like the Punch, the Gobert headlock, the nut punches/kicks, and the elbow in the face last night are dangerous. I would not blame the league if they warned Draymond that one more offense like that and he'll sit for the rest of the season. Keep it up next season, and he can go play in Europe.
last night was not the end of the warriors season. We have steph and the young guys and I can envision. that, while we will lose games, it will be waaay more fun watching them then dray+wiggs+klay+looney
Losing their second best player Draymond for 10+ games while currently being 3 games under .500 could very well be the end of the Warrior season. None of the young guys can come close to replacing him.
There's always someone who cuts against the grain... we'll see what it is. I bet 3 games, but if they decide it was an intentional punch to the face, it's gonna be 25 or something.
Man, we’re +10.8 per 100 possessions with Podz on the floor. The sample is 667 possessions total, and the majority are without Steph. If I had to win a game tomorrow with this team, I’m not sure he wouldn’t be in the starting lineup.
We missed 9 FTs. The young ones (JK, Moody, Podz) need to improve in that area. We’ve been losing close games. If they made half of those missed FTs, the outcomes could have been different.
I'm not a huge fan of blaming the refs, and the Warriors definitely didn't play well enough to win, but at one point Nurkic absolutely mauled Podziemski going for a rebound and ... Podziemski got called for the foul. That is potentially a 4 point swing in a game the Warriors lost by 3. [And apparently substack has screwed up my profile as this should have been posted as tempprofile]
I think I have mentioned earlier that I was not happy with resigning Dray, despite being a great player. I have already made my personal choice with Dray - I dont have any sympathy for his behaviors any more. However, I do care what happens to Steph and the team in general.
With that said, one possibility I fear is that the below hypothetical scenario involving Dray could become reality soon, and if so what could the consequences be?
Thus far, despite his ejections due to back slapping (Nurkic), choke holding (Gobert), stomping (sabonis), hacking (brooks), boxing (poole), fortunately, the other player has NOT got injured.
So lets say Dray comes back and the next time he "tries to sell a foul" he actually ends up injuring a player seriously in-game. What could the consequences be?
A. Will the NBA suspend him indefinitely till he gets professional counseling and help.
B. Will the NBA insist that the warriors organization get Draymond some help!
C. Will opposing teams players file a grievance against the Warriors/NBA that playing with Dray is on the floor, i.e,. a serial violent offender, is not part of the NBA contract!
D. All of the above
E. Nothing will change. Status Quo will continue as Kerr and the organization fully support what Dray does (as is borne out by evidence) and the NBA sees major entertainment value?
I know its difficult to see it after another loss but There are so many silver linings to this season:
Corporal Paul is an appealing trade chip for about 10 teams out there. Package him along with a young player and you may be getting something in return.
All of our young players have positive trade value right now. Same cant be said in years past. Im not suggesting a trade im simply saying they have positive trade value
Draymond and Steph are still playing at a high level. No reason with some offseason tinkering that they cannot sustain their level of play
Klay in a contract year playing his way into a very reasonable contract next year and perhaps into a role more appropos to his diminished skill set
I think Kerr has shown more flexibility with his personnel this year. That bodes well going fwd.
Looney and Wiggins may be the determining factors going fwd but both are on reasonable contracts commensurate with the position they play
I believe Podz and TJD are the first GSW rookies since Harrison Barnes (2013!!) who look playable in their first year. (Exception: Paschall (2019) but that was a no-expectations year)
Other than Jacob Evans, I believe they’re also the only two Warriors draftees since Harrison Barnes with more than one year of college hoops experience.
McCaw started multiple playoff games as a rookie, Bell played crucial minutes in the legendary 2018 playoff series against the Rockets as a rookie. No guarantees that Podz or TJD could do the same.
"[Klay Thompson's] future has been in question...I'm told that the Warriors offered a deal, 2 years in the range of 48 million dollars in an extension to Klay Thompson before the season, and now there's no deal."
@ShamsCharania on the current state of the Golden State Warriors.
I've said it before, Klay is 43 million in walking cap space. There'd be a lot of teams who'd want him just for that. The real question is who wants him who can give something of value in return.
Of course looked at that way, we could hold onto him, avoid the controversy and pain of trading a dynasty core player, and let him walk next summer. That would help get the Dubs under the second tax apron, avoiding a lot of restrictions (more of which kick in next season). It might be worth more in the long run than whatever we'd get in a trade.
After this game, I think my dream of the “bench” starting will finally come true! If coach lets JK, Moody, Podz, and maybe TJD play a lot more, I believe Curry, myself, and the DubWorld will have more fun.
2-6 in games Draymond has been ejected or suspended. He's the second best player on the team and he's killing the team with this shit. Last night wasn't a must win but it had a bit of that vibe to it being 2 games under .500 and he responded by making a likely win into a likely loss, because this team isn't that good on the road without the Curry/Draymond engine. Won't be surprised to see a suspension given how quickly this one came off the heels of the last one, which will only dig them into a deeper hole.
Don't really care about how bad Wiggins and Klay were, that loss was on Draymond as are far too many of the losses this season for someone as good as him.
Of the 4 wins since 6-2, only 1 of them (vs POR) had all three playing. But they've also only had three (correction: two, not three) games together since then... which is part of the problem, I guess.
These are the only games with all three playing and none getting ejected part way (since 6-2):
Yeah, it's a huge problem. I think those three are necessary because Curry is Curry, Draymond is the defense/pace setter/guy who allows them to play bigger, and CP3 is the guy who alleviates playmaking pressure from Curry and allows Curry not to be ground into dust over the course of a game.
But at a certain point, can't really blame bad luck for them not all being on the court.
EDIT: And thanks for the research, it wasn't a rhetorical question, I didn't know.
With all the dreck that happened last night, let's remember that we had some good things happen, too:
Podz played 29 minutes, with 9-14 shooting and 11! rebounds.
Kuminga hit 6-10, with 6 rebounds (also in 29 minutes).
Saric, Paul, and Moody were all pretty efficient scorers.
The turnovers were under control (15), despite the pretty bizarro-world game that it became.
If Steph had been anything like his normal efficiency, we probably would have won that game (and yeah, it's a different thing we screw up every game, so maybe not that encouraging).
So Draymond calls his flailing "unintentional"? It could not have been more intentional. And he was playing good Bball. Hopefully the League comes down hard. So many problems for Warriors but there's plenty of ball left to play. But who's in charge?
It was intentional but he did such a poor acting job in executing. Thing is, this came out of nowhere. At this point, with all the lack of leadership of coaches and players, he's way more a liability than an asset. Isn't he suppose to be the on-floor leader? Dray being Dray no longer applies.
https://dubnationhq.com/p/warriors-fall-to-suns-lose-third wait we might be trash
Honestly I think the NBA needs to force Draymond go to some counseling or something before he can come back. It'll completely tank the Warrior season but it is what it is, it seems he's going to tank the Warrior season either way with how he can draw a 5-10 game suspension at any time.
As Asher's pointed out, can't force counseling.
They can, however:
1. Listen to Draymond's claim that "hey, I'm just flailing to try to sell a call" and offer an all expenses paid 2 week retreat with some retired referees on how to properly sell a call without flailing your arms around.
2. Keep consistent and fair with consequences, regardless how how Draymond, the Warriors, the NBAPA, the old media, the new media, or anybody else wants to influence things
Not sure what consistency means here, because is there any precedent for the situation Draymond is in? This is 6 games after getting back from the last suspension which was 10 games after getting back from the suspension before that which was during the same season as the leaked footage Poole punch.
We are well past preventing outside forces from influencing the reaction to Draymond's actions, I think. He has a serious reputation post-Poole punch, and every time one of these things happens it goes viral. I don't think the NBA will be able to ignore the outside noise and how they see it affecting their league brand, especially if they feel they tried to ignore it on the last one and this is how Draymond repaid them.
I dunno, I think there's a world where last night was the end of the Warrior season. We'll see what happens though.
The Punch was the low point (so far) but unfortunately Draymond had a serious reputation long before that. Arguing with refs is merely annoying and can be dealt with by T'ing him up. But things like the Punch, the Gobert headlock, the nut punches/kicks, and the elbow in the face last night are dangerous. I would not blame the league if they warned Draymond that one more offense like that and he'll sit for the rest of the season. Keep it up next season, and he can go play in Europe.
last night was not the end of the warriors season. We have steph and the young guys and I can envision. that, while we will lose games, it will be waaay more fun watching them then dray+wiggs+klay+looney
Losing their second best player Draymond for 10+ games while currently being 3 games under .500 could very well be the end of the Warrior season. None of the young guys can come close to replacing him.
Is...this....the....Chris Paul curse???
😱
https://twitter.com/ClutchPoints/status/1734971842937356427
The media is already pushing for a big Dray suspension... putting a lot of pressure on the league. Welp.
They’re so thirsty…
Tbf Stephen A said Dray shouldn't get more than 2 games for the last one
There's always someone who cuts against the grain... we'll see what it is. I bet 3 games, but if they decide it was an intentional punch to the face, it's gonna be 25 or something.
Man, we’re +10.8 per 100 possessions with Podz on the floor. The sample is 667 possessions total, and the majority are without Steph. If I had to win a game tomorrow with this team, I’m not sure he wouldn’t be in the starting lineup.
Even more fun: with Podz on and Wiggins off, we’re +14.1. :(
We missed 9 FTs. The young ones (JK, Moody, Podz) need to improve in that area. We’ve been losing close games. If they made half of those missed FTs, the outcomes could have been different.
And if Draymond hadn't cost them a possession and 2 FTs being moronic
I'm not a huge fan of blaming the refs, and the Warriors definitely didn't play well enough to win, but at one point Nurkic absolutely mauled Podziemski going for a rebound and ... Podziemski got called for the foul. That is potentially a 4 point swing in a game the Warriors lost by 3. [And apparently substack has screwed up my profile as this should have been posted as tempprofile]
'Sup Bob!
That was a rough one… even SVG was questioning it on air.
Want another 4 point swing? Dray trying to draw a foul and committing a F2 TO for 2FT and the ball 😐
I think I have mentioned earlier that I was not happy with resigning Dray, despite being a great player. I have already made my personal choice with Dray - I dont have any sympathy for his behaviors any more. However, I do care what happens to Steph and the team in general.
With that said, one possibility I fear is that the below hypothetical scenario involving Dray could become reality soon, and if so what could the consequences be?
Thus far, despite his ejections due to back slapping (Nurkic), choke holding (Gobert), stomping (sabonis), hacking (brooks), boxing (poole), fortunately, the other player has NOT got injured.
So lets say Dray comes back and the next time he "tries to sell a foul" he actually ends up injuring a player seriously in-game. What could the consequences be?
A. Will the NBA suspend him indefinitely till he gets professional counseling and help.
B. Will the NBA insist that the warriors organization get Draymond some help!
C. Will opposing teams players file a grievance against the Warriors/NBA that playing with Dray is on the floor, i.e,. a serial violent offender, is not part of the NBA contract!
D. All of the above
E. Nothing will change. Status Quo will continue as Kerr and the organization fully support what Dray does (as is borne out by evidence) and the NBA sees major entertainment value?
F. add you options..
F. Dray announces his immediate entry into WrestleMania XL
I know its difficult to see it after another loss but There are so many silver linings to this season:
Corporal Paul is an appealing trade chip for about 10 teams out there. Package him along with a young player and you may be getting something in return.
All of our young players have positive trade value right now. Same cant be said in years past. Im not suggesting a trade im simply saying they have positive trade value
Draymond and Steph are still playing at a high level. No reason with some offseason tinkering that they cannot sustain their level of play
Klay in a contract year playing his way into a very reasonable contract next year and perhaps into a role more appropos to his diminished skill set
I think Kerr has shown more flexibility with his personnel this year. That bodes well going fwd.
Looney and Wiggins may be the determining factors going fwd but both are on reasonable contracts commensurate with the position they play
I believe Podz and TJD are the first GSW rookies since Harrison Barnes (2013!!) who look playable in their first year. (Exception: Paschall (2019) but that was a no-expectations year)
Other than Jacob Evans, I believe they’re also the only two Warriors draftees since Harrison Barnes with more than one year of college hoops experience.
They didn’t turn out well, but what about McCaw and Jordan Bell?
True, they probably count !
They never showed the BBIQ of Podz and TJD
McCaw started multiple playoff games as a rookie, Bell played crucial minutes in the legendary 2018 playoff series against the Rockets as a rookie. No guarantees that Podz or TJD could do the same.
@RunItBackFDTV
"[Klay Thompson's] future has been in question...I'm told that the Warriors offered a deal, 2 years in the range of 48 million dollars in an extension to Klay Thompson before the season, and now there's no deal."
@ShamsCharania on the current state of the Golden State Warriors.
Something like this came out over the summer so this just confirms it to me that Klays time is limited and we should start taking calls.
Who the hell is Klay's agent?
If he turned that down, it's not a good sign.
Jesus Christ, that's way too much money. Let's hope Klay continues to think he is worth more than that and walks away.
Or we can try and trade him since he's on an expiring contract. But the question, who is going to want Klay and his busted legs?
I've said it before, Klay is 43 million in walking cap space. There'd be a lot of teams who'd want him just for that. The real question is who wants him who can give something of value in return.
Of course looked at that way, we could hold onto him, avoid the controversy and pain of trading a dynasty core player, and let him walk next summer. That would help get the Dubs under the second tax apron, avoiding a lot of restrictions (more of which kick in next season). It might be worth more in the long run than whatever we'd get in a trade.
After this game, I think my dream of the “bench” starting will finally come true! If coach lets JK, Moody, Podz, and maybe TJD play a lot more, I believe Curry, myself, and the DubWorld will have more fun.
I wonder how much schadenfreude Poole is getting out of our situation?
I wouldn't blame him at all if he wasn't a little satisfied with Draymond's complete melt-down this season.
Plus, you can certainly see we miss Poole's ability to collapse the defense, however many times he took a pratfall or caused a turnover doing it.
More if he wasn't playing like one of the worst players in the league on a terrible team
Not much, cuz he’s got it worse… this also reminds me, they better keep Drays suspension below 6 games so he plays vs WAS
I miss when Poole used to collapse the defense then would juke his way back to a well defender difficult jumper lol
Poole was the king of making three moves when one would have worked
2-6 in games Draymond has been ejected or suspended. He's the second best player on the team and he's killing the team with this shit. Last night wasn't a must win but it had a bit of that vibe to it being 2 games under .500 and he responded by making a likely win into a likely loss, because this team isn't that good on the road without the Curry/Draymond engine. Won't be surprised to see a suspension given how quickly this one came off the heels of the last one, which will only dig them into a deeper hole.
Don't really care about how bad Wiggins and Klay were, that loss was on Draymond as are far too many of the losses this season for someone as good as him.
Since the hot 6-2 start, they're also 2-7 *with* Draymond
What is their record when all three of Curry, Draymond, and CP3 are playing.
Sorry, playing and not also leaving the game halfway due to ejection/injury.
Of the 4 wins since 6-2, only 1 of them (vs POR) had all three playing. But they've also only had three (correction: two, not three) games together since then... which is part of the problem, I guess.
These are the only games with all three playing and none getting ejected part way (since 6-2):
Game 10 vs. CLE (L)
Game 21 vs. POR (W)
Game 23 @ PHO (L) (Woops. Dray ejected... duh.)
Yeah, it's a huge problem. I think those three are necessary because Curry is Curry, Draymond is the defense/pace setter/guy who allows them to play bigger, and CP3 is the guy who alleviates playmaking pressure from Curry and allows Curry not to be ground into dust over the course of a game.
But at a certain point, can't really blame bad luck for them not all being on the court.
EDIT: And thanks for the research, it wasn't a rhetorical question, I didn't know.
Agreed it's a huge problem. I actually didn't realize the number of games with all three (minus ejections) was that low...
what the fuck was he doing??
With all the dreck that happened last night, let's remember that we had some good things happen, too:
Podz played 29 minutes, with 9-14 shooting and 11! rebounds.
Kuminga hit 6-10, with 6 rebounds (also in 29 minutes).
Saric, Paul, and Moody were all pretty efficient scorers.
The turnovers were under control (15), despite the pretty bizarro-world game that it became.
If Steph had been anything like his normal efficiency, we probably would have won that game (and yeah, it's a different thing we screw up every game, so maybe not that encouraging).
Thoughts going around my head after last nights game:
Starting the game like it was as a three point contest and anywhere inside the arc was lava.
At least Klays first three looked perfect…
Nurkic falling over and the refs rewarding him.
Draymond, man.
How are we going to survive the non Podz minutes?
So Draymond calls his flailing "unintentional"? It could not have been more intentional. And he was playing good Bball. Hopefully the League comes down hard. So many problems for Warriors but there's plenty of ball left to play. But who's in charge?
He called the hit to the head unintentional. Said he flails with his arms to sell fouls instead of falling to the ground and flopping (which is true).
But utter bullshit in this case. He was trying to hit Nurkic.
I was trying to count the number of times he's tried to, or succeeded in hitting somebody.
I've got at least 4.
Lebron groin attempt (which did not land).
Kid in bar in Michigan
Poole
Nurkic
Those are the ones we know of ... I'm willing to bet there are one or two that we don't know about since he started with the Dubs.
And that's only counting his arms and hands, what about his legs and feet?
It was intentional but he did such a poor acting job in executing. Thing is, this came out of nowhere. At this point, with all the lack of leadership of coaches and players, he's way more a liability than an asset. Isn't he suppose to be the on-floor leader? Dray being Dray no longer applies.