Biggest lesson coming out this season, imo, is that playing too many young guys and unfamiliar guys ain't a good thing. (I'm throwing out the game we played against a G-League team last night.) It's a 5-man game and mistakes on court aren't cumulative, they are exponential. So the more inexperience that is on the court at the same time, the more mistakes multiply. It's like compound interest on a credit card. If someone doesn't pay their card on time, next statement, they are paying interest on their interest and what was once $40 bucks becomes $80 in the long run. At the end of a road loss, the starters are not issued a WIN for their great minutes on the court together. It's one team and the whole team takes the L. The experience, and lack thereof, needs to be more balanced in our 5-man rotations. And by the eye test, it appears that Kerr is throwing more support into non-Curry minute rotations (my definition of all 2nd units).
My second issue, still a work in progress and tied to the first, is the use of the "shock collar" on the young guys for their rotation minutes. We expect a lot of Yo-Yos to start a year as Kerr experiments with rotations. But in my mind, Kerr was sending a lot of kids on timeouts, blaming them for their play when they were put in situations not to succeed by Kerr's "trickle down" rotations. It feels like we have added pressure on the kids unnecessarily. If they screw up and we don't win, they don't play and it's their fault and we are gonna rub their faces in that plus/minus report. It is a two-way street, the kids do have to perform. But I think we will see much better results if Kerr takes off the shock collar. This ain't Triskelion, for God's sake.
Lastly, Wiseman. Wiseman will or he won't succeed in this league. But I think the solution for him and this team is extraordinarily simple. We need to take a page out of modern baseball. In baseball, there are starters and there are relievers. However, a new (and annoying) trend has created a new role: the opener. A reliever starts the game, pitches maybe 1st inning, then the starter comes in in the 2nd. The benefit of this method is to allow the starter to pitch deeper into a game when the innings are more critical, like the last 5 minutes of a basketball game. This is precisely what Wiseman should be doing and how the Warriors should approach his development.
Looney is a starter. Sure. Wiseman is a reserve. I get it. But who in the world sees Wiseman being the defensive anchor, glue guy and high energy offensive focal point of the 2nd unit? I believe in the Easter Rabbit, but I do have my limits. As an "opener", Wiseman would start every 1st & 3rd Qtr. Here are the benefits as I see them.
*He knows when he is playing, it's set in stone, he doesn't have to worry one mistake will get him a DNP. He can gain additional playing time on the spot when he is performing well. But no matter what, he knows when he is coming back in and he will have something to build on.
*He will be surrounded by All-Stars. If 4 All-Stars can't hide one defensive liability, then what does it say about them? And if Wiseman can't make it with them, then no more hand-wringing patience.
*Drawing fouls and eating minutes against the behemoths of the league. What is bad for us? Early fouls on Dray & Loon and extended minutes banging with the big guys in a long playoff series. When do those early (often ticky-tack) fouls get called? Early. Early fouls inside are like the pregame layup line for refs. They are just getting their whistles wet. And we don't want Dray and Loon picking up a bunch. And we need another big body to eat minutes against the bigs. This may not help directly, but it helps indirectly by not exhausting Dray and Loon. Bang and draw some fouls. Use Wiseman like the soldiers on the beach at Normandy. Just throw him at the bullets so that Dray and Loon are in a better position to finish the job later in games WHEN IT MATTERS. (Yes, the first 6 minutes of the 1st & 3rd quarters are not as important as the last 6 minutes of the 2nd & 4th. There, I said it.)
*Having teams target Wiseman can be a good thing. Why? Because we know its coming. The same way teams targeted Curry for years. When you know what your opponent wants to do, you can scheme around it. Get them to attack where you want them to attack. Would you rather have Jokic muscle Wiseman at the rim for 2 points or MPJ stroking a 3? I would send a cab to anyone who wants to take Wiseman one-on-one down low and hunt 2s and then we'll see who can race down the floor the fastest.
*Remember, Looney doesn't play starter minutes. He's a 22-26 type of guy. If he comes in off the bench, you are shortening the game, thereby turning him into more of a traditional starter. He will be fresher down the stretch. He will be playing more minutes in more relevant moments of the game. Looney is critical to this team. Shortening every game from 48 to 42 minutes can only be good for the team.
*There are also thoughts that a second unit is better served by playing a little slower, hunting fouls, getting more rest for the starters, slow the up and down pace that can lose you games, etc. James needs to run. It is one of his greatest assets. Put him in the lineup that most rewards running.
I think the development path that Wise has been on is the wrong path for what we need him for and if the Dubs continue on this path, they might as well trade him. I want him to develop into the role that would best serve the Warriors, hold ground against the bigs, sacrifice himself so that Dray and Loon can help us win games when it matters, race up and down the court and feast off the leftovers. He is not the Looney of the 2nd Unit. Stop trying to turn him into that.
These are all great points, but the reality is that “starting” in the NBA is still a big deal that is “earned”. That wouldn’t be the case here, so it’d be REALLY unlikely to happen. I also suspect the starters would be thrilled about not getting to play with Looney.
But what if Wiseman came in for Looney at 8-10 minutes in and played with Curry, Poole, Wiggins and Draymond? He could come back off the court before/when Curry does, allowing Looney to help the bench guys execute on offense and defense. It would carry nearly all of the same benefits you described, but still let Looney get his well-earned respect as starter and give the starters their opening run with Lovable Loondawg.
I like the thought process even if I disagree with the conclusion. What you're suggesting isn't going to happen this season, barring miracles or injuries. Instead we're going to see a lot of Wiseman in Santa Cruz.
The Warriors have only had two huge positives this season: the best 5-man lineup in the league and a still-prime Steph Curry. Let's break-up that 5-man lineup, and let's pair Steph Curry with one of the only two players with which he has a negative +/- since he has entered superstardom.
I'm sorry, but why are we trying so damn hard to fit in Wise? He has not shown nearly enough for this kind of special treatment. If we are breaking up that crazy-good starting lineup, why is it for the historically bad stats guy and not the guy who seems to be better as a starter and has already performed at slightly below All Star level for stretches? Jordan Poole is infinitely more deserving than JW. And I would argue that his ceiling ain't much lower than Wise's.
We had a great time up in Sacramento last weekend. Wish the W's could have played Sunday the way they played last night. Golden 1 is a really good place to watch a game, even a crappy game.
"I'm telling [Wiseman] this is not a demotion. This is not a punishment," Poole said. "... I'm telling him to go down there and take 50 shots, be aggressive, get techs, hang on the rim, do it all. Just so he can understand what he wants to be at the highest level. This is just a step in that direction."
I’d like to see JW bodying people on D and when the ball goes up. For his size and age, he has a great touch and a good handle. Now, can reps give him a better feel for position, stickier hands, and bring out the bully? Santa Cruz is the place to find out. Find a way to dominate JWise.
Both Wiseman and Rollins didn't look great out there - hesitant, not sure where to go. But each a few flashes of potential (JW's board and bucket, Rollins slasher and 3 pointers). It's like they're both rookies feeling their way. Santa Cruz, young men, head to Santa Cruz and get in some real playing time.
I didn’t catch the first half, so maybe I missed something. But I though Rollins looked just fine, considering the complete garbage time context. So far this season I’ve been pretty impressed. He’s piled up some turnovers in said garbage time(as garbage time will do), but his handle can get him anywhere on the court, he’ll clearly be a competent shooter, and his on ball defense already looks *way* better than 3rd year JP3. Not sure there’s much more to ask from the kid at this point.
One thing I noticed about this game is that fouls were called much less tightly than in the last few Warriors games. Little bumps were ignored and the guys could just play on. Of course that DDV wind up/head smack was called as a flagrant 2, but probably was justified. Still, I liked the flow of this game a ton.
He is very much like the D Lee/JTA prototype. In fact, he seems to be a little of both. Those kinds of players are really important and it looks like Lamb has quickly made a case for a future roster spot. You need guys like that and I think we have all underestimated the loss of D Lee and JTA as they were overshadowed by GP2 and OPJ.
I am really impressed with his IQ and motor. Oh yeah, that 3 ain't bad. Holy Smoke. He is glue guy, for sure.
Yea, agreed he's a glue guy like DLee and JTA were at the heights of their careers. But JTA played so poorly last year that I would have been shocked if he had been re-signed. For whatever reason his skills were and are clearly in decline. As much as I love JTA and root for him, pro sports is not generous to borderline players. I hope he gets to show enough in LA that he can land another contract next year but it doesn't look good.
DLee was a little more surprising - he didn't crush last year but he was reliable and consistent for a number 12 or 13 guy on the roster. He's playing ok in PHOENIX (AHEM) and his 3 point shooting has really surged. If he keeps playing at this level he will keep getting NBA gigs. We might even see him back on the Dubs!
Still Lee's nearly $2 million minimum contract was clearly too pricey for the dubs given the lux tax. So basically the Dubs took $14 million off the books by not re-signing JTA and Lee.
He’s played in six games so far. I love what he’s shown, but it’s still very early days. Let’s see how he does after 30, 40, or perhaps 44 more games. I wonder what kind of deal he’d get if he can sustain his 54.5% 3 point shooting? 🤩
I, for one, am hopeful that the coaching staff down there has them play together so Wiseman learns how to play with other non-spacers and play without the ball.
Yeah, Wiseman’s got to shoot when that open, also if it’s a handoff him taking the ball to where defenders are makes a ton less sense that a teammate running to him to shave off a defender, what are they teaching the young man? #FreeWisemanSC is finally in effect, and they can probably trust Quionnes, Santos and LaCrosse to get him involved.
JMG was a bit scary on his perimeter D his communication with Kuminga led to screens involving the two of them being highly successful for the Spurs offense, but he was solid in the paint. Probably can only play the 5 defensively unless he’s got more perimeter D to show as he gets more comfortable. He does love crashing the boards. Confident shooting on O.
I would prefer the Warriors do this more often. Literally every player had a +/- greater or equal to 10, except Rollins and Wiseman.
Hopefully Poole can keep his momentum going. His TS% after today is officially above league average at .575. Of course, he's no Anthony Lamb whose TS% is .794. The Warriors season PD is now down to -7. Basically, if you go 23/45 on 3P, there will be no shortage of fun stats.
Biggest lesson coming out this season, imo, is that playing too many young guys and unfamiliar guys ain't a good thing. (I'm throwing out the game we played against a G-League team last night.) It's a 5-man game and mistakes on court aren't cumulative, they are exponential. So the more inexperience that is on the court at the same time, the more mistakes multiply. It's like compound interest on a credit card. If someone doesn't pay their card on time, next statement, they are paying interest on their interest and what was once $40 bucks becomes $80 in the long run. At the end of a road loss, the starters are not issued a WIN for their great minutes on the court together. It's one team and the whole team takes the L. The experience, and lack thereof, needs to be more balanced in our 5-man rotations. And by the eye test, it appears that Kerr is throwing more support into non-Curry minute rotations (my definition of all 2nd units).
My second issue, still a work in progress and tied to the first, is the use of the "shock collar" on the young guys for their rotation minutes. We expect a lot of Yo-Yos to start a year as Kerr experiments with rotations. But in my mind, Kerr was sending a lot of kids on timeouts, blaming them for their play when they were put in situations not to succeed by Kerr's "trickle down" rotations. It feels like we have added pressure on the kids unnecessarily. If they screw up and we don't win, they don't play and it's their fault and we are gonna rub their faces in that plus/minus report. It is a two-way street, the kids do have to perform. But I think we will see much better results if Kerr takes off the shock collar. This ain't Triskelion, for God's sake.
Lastly, Wiseman. Wiseman will or he won't succeed in this league. But I think the solution for him and this team is extraordinarily simple. We need to take a page out of modern baseball. In baseball, there are starters and there are relievers. However, a new (and annoying) trend has created a new role: the opener. A reliever starts the game, pitches maybe 1st inning, then the starter comes in in the 2nd. The benefit of this method is to allow the starter to pitch deeper into a game when the innings are more critical, like the last 5 minutes of a basketball game. This is precisely what Wiseman should be doing and how the Warriors should approach his development.
Looney is a starter. Sure. Wiseman is a reserve. I get it. But who in the world sees Wiseman being the defensive anchor, glue guy and high energy offensive focal point of the 2nd unit? I believe in the Easter Rabbit, but I do have my limits. As an "opener", Wiseman would start every 1st & 3rd Qtr. Here are the benefits as I see them.
*He knows when he is playing, it's set in stone, he doesn't have to worry one mistake will get him a DNP. He can gain additional playing time on the spot when he is performing well. But no matter what, he knows when he is coming back in and he will have something to build on.
*He will be surrounded by All-Stars. If 4 All-Stars can't hide one defensive liability, then what does it say about them? And if Wiseman can't make it with them, then no more hand-wringing patience.
*Drawing fouls and eating minutes against the behemoths of the league. What is bad for us? Early fouls on Dray & Loon and extended minutes banging with the big guys in a long playoff series. When do those early (often ticky-tack) fouls get called? Early. Early fouls inside are like the pregame layup line for refs. They are just getting their whistles wet. And we don't want Dray and Loon picking up a bunch. And we need another big body to eat minutes against the bigs. This may not help directly, but it helps indirectly by not exhausting Dray and Loon. Bang and draw some fouls. Use Wiseman like the soldiers on the beach at Normandy. Just throw him at the bullets so that Dray and Loon are in a better position to finish the job later in games WHEN IT MATTERS. (Yes, the first 6 minutes of the 1st & 3rd quarters are not as important as the last 6 minutes of the 2nd & 4th. There, I said it.)
*Having teams target Wiseman can be a good thing. Why? Because we know its coming. The same way teams targeted Curry for years. When you know what your opponent wants to do, you can scheme around it. Get them to attack where you want them to attack. Would you rather have Jokic muscle Wiseman at the rim for 2 points or MPJ stroking a 3? I would send a cab to anyone who wants to take Wiseman one-on-one down low and hunt 2s and then we'll see who can race down the floor the fastest.
*Remember, Looney doesn't play starter minutes. He's a 22-26 type of guy. If he comes in off the bench, you are shortening the game, thereby turning him into more of a traditional starter. He will be fresher down the stretch. He will be playing more minutes in more relevant moments of the game. Looney is critical to this team. Shortening every game from 48 to 42 minutes can only be good for the team.
*There are also thoughts that a second unit is better served by playing a little slower, hunting fouls, getting more rest for the starters, slow the up and down pace that can lose you games, etc. James needs to run. It is one of his greatest assets. Put him in the lineup that most rewards running.
I think the development path that Wise has been on is the wrong path for what we need him for and if the Dubs continue on this path, they might as well trade him. I want him to develop into the role that would best serve the Warriors, hold ground against the bigs, sacrifice himself so that Dray and Loon can help us win games when it matters, race up and down the court and feast off the leftovers. He is not the Looney of the 2nd Unit. Stop trying to turn him into that.
That's my story and I'm standing by it.
These are all great points, but the reality is that “starting” in the NBA is still a big deal that is “earned”. That wouldn’t be the case here, so it’d be REALLY unlikely to happen. I also suspect the starters would be thrilled about not getting to play with Looney.
But what if Wiseman came in for Looney at 8-10 minutes in and played with Curry, Poole, Wiggins and Draymond? He could come back off the court before/when Curry does, allowing Looney to help the bench guys execute on offense and defense. It would carry nearly all of the same benefits you described, but still let Looney get his well-earned respect as starter and give the starters their opening run with Lovable Loondawg.
I like the thought process even if I disagree with the conclusion. What you're suggesting isn't going to happen this season, barring miracles or injuries. Instead we're going to see a lot of Wiseman in Santa Cruz.
The Warriors have only had two huge positives this season: the best 5-man lineup in the league and a still-prime Steph Curry. Let's break-up that 5-man lineup, and let's pair Steph Curry with one of the only two players with which he has a negative +/- since he has entered superstardom.
I'm sorry, but why are we trying so damn hard to fit in Wise? He has not shown nearly enough for this kind of special treatment. If we are breaking up that crazy-good starting lineup, why is it for the historically bad stats guy and not the guy who seems to be better as a starter and has already performed at slightly below All Star level for stretches? Jordan Poole is infinitely more deserving than JW. And I would argue that his ceiling ain't much lower than Wise's.
Still on the Wiseman train. I don't know how long it'll take but he'll eventually find his place on this team.
I'm in the seat across the aisle from you.
I think I can…I think I can..
I think I’ve seen that train in Santa Cruz. Runs from the beach boardwalk up in to the lovely hills?
That felt good! Nice to see Poole find his mojo and the bench come alive at home.
Great game, and - finally - a Poole party!
We had a great time up in Sacramento last weekend. Wish the W's could have played Sunday the way they played last night. Golden 1 is a really good place to watch a game, even a crappy game.
Make Poole a permanent starter wen
Steve Kerr: Moody needs to tighten up turnovers and fouls to get back in the rotation.
Moody: 0 TO & 0 PF in 26 min. ✓
"I'm telling [Wiseman] this is not a demotion. This is not a punishment," Poole said. "... I'm telling him to go down there and take 50 shots, be aggressive, get techs, hang on the rim, do it all. Just so he can understand what he wants to be at the highest level. This is just a step in that direction."
love it.
Nice. Poole should know.
I’d like to see JW bodying people on D and when the ball goes up. For his size and age, he has a great touch and a good handle. Now, can reps give him a better feel for position, stickier hands, and bring out the bully? Santa Cruz is the place to find out. Find a way to dominate JWise.
YES.
According to the Lick Observatory, there will be a total eclipse of the Suns on Wednesday.
Okay, I just made that up. But it's gonna happen.
Dubs lick Suns and move within 1.5 games of first place. Everything back on track.
Dude! Gross! What happened to your tongue?
Muffim. I'm FIME. Yeave me ayoam.
Both Wiseman and Rollins didn't look great out there - hesitant, not sure where to go. But each a few flashes of potential (JW's board and bucket, Rollins slasher and 3 pointers). It's like they're both rookies feeling their way. Santa Cruz, young men, head to Santa Cruz and get in some real playing time.
I didn’t catch the first half, so maybe I missed something. But I though Rollins looked just fine, considering the complete garbage time context. So far this season I’ve been pretty impressed. He’s piled up some turnovers in said garbage time(as garbage time will do), but his handle can get him anywhere on the court, he’ll clearly be a competent shooter, and his on ball defense already looks *way* better than 3rd year JP3. Not sure there’s much more to ask from the kid at this point.
They're part of the third timeline.
Warriors trying out an MCU story arc.
We do have Dr. Range...
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/34387950_2069168059780522_659613964853837824_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=K6JIVzRdbqcAX8C46Xc&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCEXnDtS-8j-rubpVXZWjyruz1R4V7ocH_bjb2qbsnt8w&oe=639A9DCD
One thing I noticed about this game is that fouls were called much less tightly than in the last few Warriors games. Little bumps were ignored and the guys could just play on. Of course that DDV wind up/head smack was called as a flagrant 2, but probably was justified. Still, I liked the flow of this game a ton.
Had to call it. I didn't like it at regular speed, but on the replay, it was clear. You just can't hit a guy in the head like that.
And no one was complaining to the refs…except Draymond once
Draymond shouts ‘and 1’ on every shot he makes. It’s just habit. And it probably annoys the heck out of some refs.
it annoys the heck out of me
No discontinued dribble calls either.
Should we start a pool, or a poll, on when Lamb gets signed to a regular contract? Or is it obviously the last possible day, whenever that is?
Play yourself into a contract young man!
He is very much like the D Lee/JTA prototype. In fact, he seems to be a little of both. Those kinds of players are really important and it looks like Lamb has quickly made a case for a future roster spot. You need guys like that and I think we have all underestimated the loss of D Lee and JTA as they were overshadowed by GP2 and OPJ.
I am really impressed with his IQ and motor. Oh yeah, that 3 ain't bad. Holy Smoke. He is glue guy, for sure.
Yea, agreed he's a glue guy like DLee and JTA were at the heights of their careers. But JTA played so poorly last year that I would have been shocked if he had been re-signed. For whatever reason his skills were and are clearly in decline. As much as I love JTA and root for him, pro sports is not generous to borderline players. I hope he gets to show enough in LA that he can land another contract next year but it doesn't look good.
DLee was a little more surprising - he didn't crush last year but he was reliable and consistent for a number 12 or 13 guy on the roster. He's playing ok in PHOENIX (AHEM) and his 3 point shooting has really surged. If he keeps playing at this level he will keep getting NBA gigs. We might even see him back on the Dubs!
Still Lee's nearly $2 million minimum contract was clearly too pricey for the dubs given the lux tax. So basically the Dubs took $14 million off the books by not re-signing JTA and Lee.
DLee is in Phoenix, not LA.
Aye truth, mixed up him and JTA.
He’s played in six games so far. I love what he’s shown, but it’s still very early days. Let’s see how he does after 30, 40, or perhaps 44 more games. I wonder what kind of deal he’d get if he can sustain his 54.5% 3 point shooting? 🤩
IMO he's already played himself into a contract.
My best guess is the last day possible, especially to keep flexibility for the buyout market or trades.
Hey hey not only did he score well and play defense well, but Poole had no TOs including no discontinued dribbles, no travels. Noice!
Why in the wide wide world of sports is the Thai stream the only thing available on the NBA app?
Traveled all day, got home to the dub, but this ain't working for me.
You're sounding rationally pessimistic
J Wise headed to Santa Cruz!
Sucks for Trevion, probably
I, for one, am hopeful that the coaching staff down there has them play together so Wiseman learns how to play with other non-spacers and play without the ball.
Twin towers.
Or Johnson
Wow, the DNHQ propaganda machine wins again!
I am glad for this. As the guys said in the post game, if his ego is hurt, he should take it out on the G league.
It's the right thing for him and for the team. It might even let us talk about something else for awhile here too. (Okay, that's an exaggeration.)
Who told wiseman not to shoot? Had two wide open 3s top of the key n turned them into dribble handoffs and immediately drove and clogged the paint
Also how did jmg look before garbage time? I was half paying attention
Yeah, Wiseman’s got to shoot when that open, also if it’s a handoff him taking the ball to where defenders are makes a ton less sense that a teammate running to him to shave off a defender, what are they teaching the young man? #FreeWisemanSC is finally in effect, and they can probably trust Quionnes, Santos and LaCrosse to get him involved.
JMG was a bit scary on his perimeter D his communication with Kuminga led to screens involving the two of them being highly successful for the Spurs offense, but he was solid in the paint. Probably can only play the 5 defensively unless he’s got more perimeter D to show as he gets more comfortable. He does love crashing the boards. Confident shooting on O.
"Who told wiseman not to shoot?"
Probably the coaches. He should shoot those.
Hes got too
I would prefer the Warriors do this more often. Literally every player had a +/- greater or equal to 10, except Rollins and Wiseman.
Hopefully Poole can keep his momentum going. His TS% after today is officially above league average at .575. Of course, he's no Anthony Lamb whose TS% is .794. The Warriors season PD is now down to -7. Basically, if you go 23/45 on 3P, there will be no shortage of fun stats.